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| 02:34.33 | prpplague | landley: hehe you've never been required to have a background check and drug screening before on a contract? |
| 02:49.09 | MonMotha | prpplague: the large corporate types (and the wannabe large corporate types) seem to want stuff like that. The smaller shops don't care. |
| 02:50.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: guess i look like a druggie with a criminal past, since everywhere i have worked has required both |
| 02:51.08 | MonMotha | prpplague: it seems to depend entirely on management at the place you're going |
| 02:51.22 | MonMotha | the control freaks, religious conservatives, etc. all want the checks |
| 02:51.35 | MonMotha | the people who are just out to get work done don't seem to bother. They, well, just want the work done. |
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| 02:52.04 | prpplague | MonMotha: interesting view on it |
| 02:52.57 | MonMotha | prpplague: and, again, large corps are just likely to have at some level adopted a policy of "everybody goes through this" |
| 02:53.03 | MonMotha | I'd expect someplace like TI would have that |
| 02:53.22 | MonMotha | I had one prospective client that required "all employees of the contract services provider to undergo random drug testing" |
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| 02:53.29 | MonMotha | I guess I was supposed to randomly test myself |
| 02:54.43 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 02:56.25 | prpplague | MonMotha: i suspect the level of intrusion is beyond the tolerance of landley |
| 02:57.16 | MonMotha | I had an employer who wanted to do alcohol testing but do it "randomly on a weekend" |
| 02:57.26 | MonMotha | I'm like, I don't drink, but, dude...what I do on the weekend is my own business. |
| 02:57.49 | prpplague | i would have had a problem with that one |
| 02:57.50 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:58.09 | MonMotha | he was a fairly religious/conservative person |
| 02:58.23 | MonMotha | and, in my opinion, a poor manager and businessman |
| 02:58.26 | MonMotha | I don't work there, anymore |
| 02:58.38 | MonMotha | he never did actually have the drug/alcohol test done |
| 02:58.42 | MonMotha | I don't think he wanted to pay for it |
| 02:59.18 | prpplague | hehe |
| 02:59.59 | prpplague | MonMotha: not every job fits |
| 03:00.03 | MonMotha | prpplague: indeed |
| 03:00.28 | prpplague | likes to think he fits in well at TI |
| 03:00.47 | MonMotha | prpplague: cool |
| 03:01.09 | MonMotha | prpplague: I actually have a former employer (laid me and everyone else off back in the financial meltdown of 2008) looking to re-hire me |
| 03:01.37 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe, funny you should mention that |
| 03:02.05 | MonMotha | oh? |
| 03:02.13 | prpplague | MonMotha: my former employer who laid me off back in 2009, hehe, they couldn't find him on friday |
| 03:02.27 | prpplague | MonMotha: they found him under his desk almost catatonic, |
| 03:02.48 | prpplague | MonMotha: turns out he couldn't handle the stress of being God |
| 03:03.15 | MonMotha | heh |
| 03:03.36 | MonMotha | I remember your tales of that job |
| 03:03.46 | prpplague | hehe, indeed |
| 03:03.54 | prpplague | it all changed when the owner retired from the company |
| 03:05.09 | prpplague | ho ho hum |
| 03:05.20 | prpplague | i need to finish up with the example drivers for the beacon board |
| 03:05.52 | MonMotha | you should have a bacon board |
| 03:05.56 | MonMotha | might sell better |
| 03:06.20 | prpplague | MonMotha: indeed, we almost changed the name to BaconBits |
| 03:06.42 | MonMotha | nice |
| 03:06.43 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/BeaconBoard |
| 03:09.30 | MonMotha | handy |
| 03:09.40 | MonMotha | I take it from the shift register it's SPI? |
| 03:10.12 | prpplague | MonMotha: it could be used with SPI, but just doing it a gpio bit-banging for the demo drivers |
| 03:10.25 | prpplague | MonMotha: demonstrating gpio operations and timings |
| 03:10.36 | prpplague | MonMotha: schematic is at the bottom of the page |
| 03:12.06 | MonMotha | I see, you've got the LED controller on SPI and the 7 segment's shift register on a separate set of IOs |
| 03:12.39 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, i'm actually having to make a change on two pins to make it compatible with the use of some other cards as well |
| 03:12.40 | MonMotha | though I don't see any frame sync/chip select on the SPI for the LED controller |
| 03:13.06 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea, its 2-wire spi |
| 03:13.22 | MonMotha | is there a sync pattern on the data bus that it looks for or something? |
| 03:13.47 | prpplague | MonMotha: nope, just expects 24-bits of data, after the 24th bit it latches the data |
| 03:13.59 | MonMotha | prpplague: seems dangerous |
| 03:14.25 | prpplague | MonMotha: only if there is something else on the SPI, but again, we aren't using as SPI , only gpio-bitbanging |
| 03:14.41 | MonMotha | prpplague: on large systems I'd see it being easy for something to die in the middle of the transfer, making all future transfers off-sync |
| 03:15.08 | ZeZu | <prpplague> MonMotha: guess i look like a druggie with a criminal past, since everywhere i have worked has required both |
| 03:15.31 | ZeZu | has that problem, wait upon background check it gets deeper ... ooops? |
| 03:15.34 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe, yea, what can you expect for a $0.02 part |
| 03:15.47 | prpplague | ZeZu: ?? |
| 03:16.30 | prpplague | MonMotha: actually its pretty robust, you can chain them together |
| 03:16.35 | ZeZu | Had a job w/ harris bank once until they did a background check. |
| 03:16.36 | MonMotha | prpplague: is it really 2 cents? |
| 03:16.50 | prpplague | MonMotha: the ws2801 is using in a ton of rgb lighting products |
| 03:16.58 | prpplague | MonMotha: yea when you order 10k pieces |
| 03:17.12 | MonMotha | prpplague: wow...that's cheap |
| 03:17.31 | prpplague | ZeZu: i am afraid to ask |
| 03:18.01 | prpplague | MonMotha: i'm giving away 1000 beacon boards at conferences in the next 90 days |
| 03:18.34 | ZeZu | thats prob. for the better, nah really just a lot of dumb things that shouldn't come up, since they happened before I turned 18... I guess a bank doesn't care and finds out anyways if your going to work in their data center. |
| 03:19.21 | MonMotha | and of course people in their 30s and 40s act exactly like they did when they were 15 |
| 03:19.37 | prpplague | ZeZu: well my comment was more of a joke since i am ex-army |
| 03:20.17 | ZeZu | I know a lot of guys in the army that are doing more drugs than i'll probably ever see :) |
| 03:20.49 | ZeZu | But yea I guess I don't make my point well enough, I always get drug tested too... I must look like an undesirable element. |
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| 03:21.18 | prpplague | ZeZu: hehe, that may be true, but i'm old school i guess |
| 03:22.30 | ZeZu | yea, just struck me as amusing, and anything distracts me from debugging arm code ... |
| 03:22.36 | MonMotha | I suspect a former employer of mine may have thought I was doing drugs or similar since I had mentioned that some days I couldn't easily do extremely fine pitch soldering work due to shaky hands. |
| 03:22.56 | MonMotha | which mostly seems to be impacted by what I had (or didn't have) for breakfast/lunch that day |
| 03:22.59 | prpplague | MonMotha: ahh |
| 03:23.12 | MonMotha | and I'm talking 0.5mm pitch stuff and 0402 passives. Most people can't even see the darned things :) |
| 03:23.28 | prpplague | MonMotha: you weren't using a scope? |
| 03:23.47 | MonMotha | prpplague: hah! Like this guy would buy one of those... |
| 03:23.56 | MonMotha | seeing it wasn't a problem |
| 03:24.07 | MonMotha | it's just getting my hand to shake less than a tenth of a mm |
| 03:24.25 | MonMotha | it's not like my hands are shaky, but 0.1mm isn't exactly a large distance |
| 03:27.17 | prpplague | MonMotha: sounds like you've had some rather sub-standard employment environments, hehe |
| 03:28.48 | MonMotha | prpplague: just one, really |
| 03:29.38 | MonMotha | and one that had nothing to do with the employment environment itself; I just didn't like the location |
| 03:35.53 | MonMotha | prpplague: do you happen to have any spare/bad PCBs with QFN lands and some dead/spare QFN parts laying around I could practice on? |
| 04:02.31 | prpplague | MonMotha: i'd have to check |
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| 04:09.27 | MonMotha | prpplague: cool, if you have a chance that would be great |
| 04:09.42 | MonMotha | I can do essentially anything with leads, right now, but being able to do QFNs would be handy |
| 04:10.19 | MonMotha | beyond that, I'd just have to order a paste mask and reflow it |
| 04:10.34 | MonMotha | I suspect I can pull off 1mm pitch BGAs with a hotplate or toaster oven and hand placement |
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| 15:47.39 | landley | prpplague: background check: once or twice. Drug screening: twice (first was IBM, second was >5 years ago). |
| 15:47.49 | landley | Checking my references is normal. |
| 15:48.20 | landley | Random bag searches, saying I can't carry my cell phone (camera AND usb stick!), net-nanny software on the internet, keystroke loggers... not normal, no. |
| 15:48.41 | landley | Do I really want to work at a place that actively mistrusts its employees? |
| 16:13.59 | Mirell | Background checks are annoying, but I don't hold it against companies, especially when they otherwise open themselves up to massive liability lawsuits. |
| 16:14.30 | Mirell | As for drug testing, that's just a shitty company that does that. |
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| 19:54.23 | Mirell | My Kingdom, for a coworker who doesn't need hand holding and actually would try to figure out stuff for himself. |
| 19:56.10 | MonMotha | Mirell: you have a kingdom? |
| 19:58.59 | Mirell | Yes, but my father was assasinated, and I'm trying to get my funds out of the country. |
| 20:00.16 | MonMotha | Mirell: I assume that if I were to assist you in such an endeavor, you would offer me a commission? |
| 20:00.20 | prpplague | landley: guess it is all what you are used to |
| 20:00.36 | prpplague | landley: i have no issue with background checks or drug tests |
| 20:00.43 | MonMotha | Mirell: that seems to be the standard arrangement, at least |
| 20:01.03 | Mirell | Oh yes, very much so. |
| 20:02.04 | MonMotha | Mirell: would I stand to make at least eleventy billion dollars from this transaction |
| 20:02.05 | MonMotha | ? |
| 20:02.53 | Mirell | More like dollar-dollar |
| 20:03.24 | Mirell | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b3/Trigun_wanted.jpg |
| 20:04.00 | MonMotha | nice |
| 20:04.33 | MonMotha | so, does anyone have a good reference for designing power magnetics? |
| 20:04.55 | MonMotha | I've got something from UColorado that seems reasonable, but other resources are frequently useful |
| 20:13.28 | prpplague | landley: give me a ping when you are around |
| 20:13.45 | landley | prpplague: Just got in. |
| 20:14.01 | prpplague | landley: see /msg |
| 20:14.11 | wmat | prpplague: prague is a go :) |
| 20:15.12 | prpplague | wmat: dandy!!!! |
| 20:15.17 | prpplague | wmat: i'm buying!! |
| 20:15.40 | prpplague | wmat: tomeff over in #pandaboard is a local, hes going to help us out with translations and such, hehe |
| 20:17.17 | wmat | awesome |
| 20:17.47 | prpplague | wmat: i'm going to get him a pass to ELC-E , so he can help us out, hehe |
| 20:19.51 | wmat | nice! |
| 20:20.09 | wmat | we're probably going to do the BOF as a lunch wiki-sprint this time out |
| 20:21.12 | prpplague | wmat: lets brain storm on something we can give away at the BoF |
| 20:21.25 | wmat | oh, good idea |
| 20:21.35 | wmat | we usually have lots of odd treats |
| 20:21.40 | wmat | it's a bit of a tradition |
| 20:21.54 | prpplague | http://www.dealextreme.com/p/mini-pig-2-leds-flashlight-white-3-lr1130-included-1138 |
| 20:24.55 | wmat | haha |
| 20:25.24 | prpplague | wmat: "don't be a hog, help out with elinux.org!" |
| 20:25.33 | landley | I remember when white LEDs were cool. |
| 20:25.39 | landley | (Uphill, both ways, in the snow.) |
| 20:26.17 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 20:26.29 | wmat | if that had a bottel opener on it, it'd be perfect |
| 20:26.35 | wmat | s/bottel/bottle |
| 20:28.11 | prpplague | wmat: hehe |
| 20:30.09 | prpplague | wmat: http://www.dealextreme.com/p/smallest-microsd-transflash-usb-card-reader-with-cover-blue-7134 |
| 20:32.14 | wmat | nifty |
| 20:33.49 | prpplague | wmat: i'll see what i can come up with |
| 20:33.59 | prpplague | wmat: how many people do you usually get for the BoF? |
| 20:34.27 | wmat | prpplague: the BoF, usually 30 or so, but the Lunch BoF with free pizza may attract 100+ |
| 20:34.46 | prpplague | wmat: understood |
| 20:41.08 | calculus | knows prpplague has sharp sticks |
| 20:41.14 | calculus | how about those? |
| 20:41.17 | prpplague | calculus: hehe |
| 20:41.23 | prpplague | calculus: did that at the last ELC |
| 20:41.32 | wmat | would like nicks on the nametags this time |
| 20:42.02 | wmat | at least in brackets under real names |
| 20:49.44 | SpeedEvil | DX has lots of linux stuff - maybe even one or to that are GPL complient. :) |
| 21:02.24 | landley | So how is ELC since the <strike>FSF</strike> Linux Foundation took it over? |
| 21:02.46 | landley | Is Tim Bird still in charge, or did Pointy-hairdom decide it was an interchangeable cog and replaced him? |
| 21:03.17 | landley | (The mailing list is dead, but it was never all that active...) |
| 21:05.30 | landley | The fact I could guess the busybox git repository URL without looking it up is kind of disturbing. |
| 21:06.02 | landley | Not quite as disturbing as guessing a historical kernel version download path on the first try from the command line without any references, but still... |
| 21:06.22 | landley | (The second, I did last week. It was my queue to step away from the keyboard for a while.) |
| 21:08.37 | landley | So is anybody else wondering about Google's ability to not compete with their own customers? |
| 21:09.09 | landley | I realize they bought motorola wireless A) to stop it from becoming another patent troll like it had announced plans to do, B) to have a defensive patent portfolio to replace nortel. |
| 21:09.11 | SpeedEvil | You mean android? |
| 21:09.14 | SpeedEvil | Or otherwise? |
| 21:09.31 | landley | But it ALSO means they own a phone vendor, and are an upstream component supplier to phone vendors. |
| 21:09.34 | landley | Android, yes. |
| 21:12.31 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - that would be fun. |
| 21:12.42 | SpeedEvil | I hadn't considered the component supplier bit. |
| 21:13.06 | SpeedEvil | If I was samsung I'd be asking apple exactly how much they want to beat the google offer by. |
| 21:13.32 | SpeedEvil | At least as a bargaining chip. |
| 21:14.40 | landley | SpeedEvil: I was under the impression Google's acquisition of Motorola was a done deal. |
| 21:14.58 | landley | Keep in mind that Apple shot its wad on Nortel. If they then ALSO tried to buy motorola, antitrust kicks in. :) |
| 21:15.05 | SpeedEvil | Sorry, I haven't been keeping up much, as I own shares in neither. |
| 21:15.11 | landley | it's possible Google was playing chicken. :) |
| 21:15.14 | SpeedEvil | Ah - yes. |
| 21:15.19 | landley | http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/08/google-to-buy-motorola-in-effort-to-defend-itself-from-patent-bullies.ars |
| 21:15.38 | alex4nder | SpeedEvil: which component supplying? |
| 21:16.22 | SpeedEvil | Oops - ignore that - I was thinking of samsung, ad becoming confused. |
| 21:16.43 | landley | SpeedEvil: Keep in mind Google did that right after http://lwn.net/Articles/454723 |
| 21:16.43 | SpeedEvil | Trying to get to sleep. :) |
| 21:17.03 | SpeedEvil | That I do remember. |
| 21:17.14 | landley | The phrase "Way to go Dallas!" from the Hunt for Red October comes to mind, but it could just be me... :) |
| 21:17.35 | landley | It's not often you see $12.5 billion dollars applied to perform judo. |
| 21:18.15 | prpplague | landley: ELC is still going |
| 21:18.29 | prpplague | landley: TimB handles a lot of ELC business |
| 21:18.29 | landley | prpplague: woot. Is it still fun? |
| 21:18.41 | landley | Hmmm, I suppose the fun was always hanging out with other people in the hallways. |
| 21:18.41 | prpplague | landley: the atmosphere has changed some |
| 21:18.52 | landley | CELF always had the best hallway track of any con except Penguicon... :) |
| 21:19.02 | landley | In what way? |
| 21:19.17 | prpplague | landley: dirk seems to keep a close eye on things, they are doing a bunch of co-location stuff |
| 21:19.35 | landley | The ex-SuSE/KDE guy? |
| 21:19.44 | landley | What's he doing now... Linux Foundation, isn't he? |
| 21:20.04 | landley | (Does SuSE still actually employ anybody since private equity ate 'em?) |
| 21:20.14 | prpplague | landley: Dirk Hohndel, Intel Corporation |
| 21:21.26 | landley | Ah yes, ex-cto of SuSE. So he was the guy I was thinking of, he just wound up at Intel. Ok. |
| 21:21.35 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 21:22.05 | landley | So moblin, meego, yocto, has any reason showed up to care about any of these yet? |
| 21:22.16 | prpplague | landley: yocto more so |
| 21:22.37 | prpplague | landley: basically all the major players have bought in on it |
| 21:22.53 | landley | Corporate sponsored distros to "unify embedded" ala http://xkcd.com/927/ |
| 21:23.16 | prpplague | landley: openembedded is morphing into a new beast with yocoto as a "project" under the openembedded-core |
| 21:23.21 | landley | It's the Linux Foundation. "The Pointy Hair is There." |
| 21:23.34 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 21:23.36 | landley | Wasn't bitbake a project under the openembedded core? |
| 21:23.42 | prpplague | landley: yea |
| 21:23.45 | prpplague | landley: still is |
| 21:24.17 | landley | I'm still trying to get openembedded to build under aboriginal, but when I sat down at it after an hour of walkthrough I was editing some config file that intentionally broke if you hadn't read all of it, and life's just too short for people going SEE MY CODE! |
| 21:24.34 | landley | YOU CANNOT USE MY CODE IF YOU HAVE NOT READ MY CODE! READ ALL OF IT! FEAST YOUR EYES UPON MY MAGNIFICENCE! |
| 21:25.35 | landley | There's still no obvious separation between board support and package selection. |
| 21:26.44 | landley | Eh, putting out a new release of Aboriginal this week with Linux 3.0, uClibc 0.9.29, and busybox 1.19.0. (Kicked off the build at lunch, hopefully this is everything.) |
| 21:27.03 | landley | I can worry about bitbake and LFS 6.8 afterwards. |
| 21:29.29 | prpplague | landley: yes that is starting to change under oe-core |
| 21:29.36 | landley | Oh good. |
| 21:50.28 | MonMotha | landley: I've done that with config files, but never source code |
| 21:50.53 | MonMotha | I've had a magic variable all the way at the bottom of the config that was just "ENABLE" and you had to change it from false to true |
| 22:00.15 | *** join/#edev dijenerate (~dijenerat@66.54.118.89) |
| 22:22.58 | landley | MonMotha: it was something like that, yeah. |
| 22:23.19 | landley | But this was after several pages of quickstart howto on their website. |
| 22:27.07 | MonMotha | that does sound a bit annoying |
| 22:51.13 | *** join/#edev RushPL_ (~quassel@89-78-80-237.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 22:52.48 | ZeZu | It is in the config file and it is annoying, thats why most of them have premade config files you can copy over |
| 22:53.13 | landley | ZeZu: their quickstart doesn't link to these premade config files, that I noticed. |
| 22:53.42 | ZeZu | idk, i've used peoples git setups, ie: linaro |
| 22:53.51 | ZeZu | i don't care for openembedded |
| 22:54.37 | ZeZu | thats just preference though, i have bad luck w/ it for some reason and have to end up going through a million bitbake files to find what i need ... takes too long |
| 23:09.46 | MonMotha | I did this on a security related configuration. Failing to completely review the configuration could have exposed the user to potential security issues, and it wasn't possible to make a "default config" that would have been suitable for everybody, so that's why I put the "configure me" switch on it/ |
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| 23:20.55 | kergoth | landley: board support, package selection, and distro policies are all intentionally independent / orthogonal in OE. I won't argue that it's easy to grasp, though :\ |
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| 23:49.42 | *** join/#edev scanlime (~scanlime@99.23.81.134) |
| 23:51.11 | landley | kergoth: it should be documented somewhere. |
| 23:51.25 | landley | And having to understand bitbake syntax (which apparently includes the whole of Python) should not be a requirement. |
| 23:51.40 | landley | (I already program in python and I cringe when bitbake goes "python!") |
| 23:52.13 | landley | The other problem is that openembedded's history says it started when they decided buildroot was too complex. |
| 23:53.08 | landley | Buildroot is complex because it fell into the distribution trap. It hasn't got a package manager (it uses makefiles instead and generates a static image), but its makefiles encode the dependencies between hundreds of packages. Their repository is the buildroot source. They are a distro. |
| 23:53.23 | landley | And then openembedded did the exact same thing. They created a package manager, and started collecting package build recipes. |
| 23:53.40 | landley | Debian had 43,000 packages in its repository last time I bothered to count (which was a while ago). |
| 23:54.17 | landley | Leave being a distro to the distros. Red Hat, SuSE, Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, and several others already _do_ this. They ahve teams of dozens of people who do NOTHING ELSE. |
| 23:55.03 | landley | Board support really needs to be orthogonal. Board support is toolchain + C library + kernel. Throw in busybox and you've got a shell prompt so you can smoketest the result, and then STOP THERE. |
| 23:55.07 | landley | But that's an old rant for me... :) |
