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| 02:27.40 | orbarron | hey all -- if I have a ethernet driver supported in the kernel what other work would i need to consider when running android OS? |
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| 02:42.42 | landley | Reevaluating your life choices? (Not a fan of android...) |
| 02:43.14 | landley | I'd ask the cyanogenmod guys. |
| 02:43.21 | orbarron | me either... but trying to understand it a bit more |
| 02:43.36 | landley | Android is as close to Linux as macosx is to freebsd. |
| 02:43.46 | landley | And about as open. |
| 02:43.50 | orbarron | hehe |
| 02:44.06 | orbarron | yeah i've been delaing with that... |
| 02:44.13 | orbarron | do you hace a channel I could ping? |
| 02:44.27 | landley | Yeah, the kernel's gpl... But a 5 year old fork. |
| 02:44.44 | landley | Is there a #android? |
| 02:45.03 | landley | Not a lot of hobbyist android development. |
| 02:45.38 | landley | It's paid cobol card whallopers and facebook flash get-rich-quick guys. |
| 02:45.45 | landley | And cyanogenmod. |
| 02:46.02 | orbarron | yeah.. but thanks for the input |
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| 03:23.20 | orbarron | hey all how can I find if a component has a driver support a kernel without grepping the whole kernel? |
| 03:24.25 | MonMotha | orbarron: grep just drivers/ ?:) |
| 03:24.36 | MonMotha | or look through make config and see if you see anything promising |
| 03:24.48 | MonMotha | or just start walking the drivers heirarchy trying to find something that looks right |
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| 13:42.41 | wmat | sad news, lcuk died |
| 13:43.21 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 13:43.30 | SpeedEvil | He seemed so full of beans. |
| 13:43.38 | SpeedEvil | Always an innovative idea. |
| 13:43.44 | wmat | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=76737 |
| 13:53.08 | florian | wmat: oh well... that's really sad :-( |
| 13:58.50 | wmat | yeah, very sad indeed |
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| 15:51.00 | SpeedEvil | http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2011/09/14/hp_touchpad_context/ |
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| 18:41.51 | landley | succumbs to the temptation to rewrite ldd from scratch. |
| 18:42.00 | landley | Because dude: the uClibc code went all weird. |
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| 21:04.01 | landley | My path searching function is less than half the size of the one in uClibc's ldd, on my first attempt, when I was aiming at _simpler_ rather than _smaller_. |
| 21:04.06 | landley | Does nobody teach simple anymore? |
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| 21:04.40 | landley | I don't know whether to be proud or to weep at the state of development in general. |
| 21:10.44 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
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| 21:11.24 | SpeedEvil | It's a great pity that most programmers can't estimate to an order of magnitude how many cycles things will take. |
| 21:11.32 | SpeedEvil | Hell - even two orders of magnitude. |
| 21:12.10 | SpeedEvil | 'Which is cheaper, a string comparison, or a pointer comparison' |
| 21:24.23 | landley | Nobody teaches C anymore, they teach C++. |
| 21:24.46 | landley | Thinking that C++ is a substitute for C immediately disqualifies someone from being a serious programmer. Right there, career limiting move. |
| 21:25.01 | landley | One is a portable assembly language with minimal abstraction between you and what the machine's actually doing. |
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| 21:28.27 | landley | The other is a perl wannabe that thinks template expansion at compile time is somehow a substitue for duck typing and that RTAI substitutes for references and garbage collection.. |
| 21:28.49 | SpeedEvil | Very much so. |
| 21:29.07 | SpeedEvil | I especially am depressed at people trying to do C++ on microcontrollers. |
| 21:30.37 | landley | I have nothing against Python and Ruby and such. They're great at what they do. |
| 21:30.48 | landley | I object to C++, attempting to do dynamic things at compile time. |
| 21:30.50 | xorrbit | I don't even know C++ |
| 21:30.55 | landley | PHP hasn't _got_ a compile time. |
| 21:31.17 | landley | You don't compile properly dynamic languages. There's no "make" for python stuff. |
| 21:31.34 | landley | xorrbit: do you know C? |
| 21:31.40 | xorrbit | sure do |
| 21:31.44 | landley | Woot. |
| 21:31.54 | xorrbit | mostly what I do all day |
| 21:32.08 | landley | I was enthusiastic about C++ from 1992 to 1995. Then they added templates and exception handling and I walked away. |
| 21:32.28 | landley | "C with Classes" wasn't bad syntactic sugar, although operator redefintion was never worth it. |
| 21:32.59 | xorrbit | I get my syntactic sugar fix with ruby |
| 21:33.33 | landley | But layers of abstraction between yo uand what the box is doing WITHOUT replacing pointers with references, doing garbage collection, and bytecode interpreters running your source directly... is just CRAZY. |
| 21:33.54 | landley | Java is another "jumped halfway across the ravine" thing. |
| 21:33.56 | xorrbit | and my OO C fix with objective C |
| 21:34.13 | landley | I haven't played with objective C much, but you can do object orientation in C just fine. |
| 21:34.37 | landley | struct thingy *thingy_blah(struct thingy *this, int a); |
| 21:34.44 | landley | this->member |
| 21:34.51 | landley | That's what cfront used to do. |
| 21:35.04 | xorrbit | I worked for 4 months on an objective C project, it was hella fun and showed me how c++ is doing it wrong, objective C is OO C done right :) |
| 21:35.22 | landley | My _problem_ is that an entire generation of programmers is growing up learning no-mans-land crap like C++ and Java that's as useful to real programming as cobol. |
| 21:36.56 | landley | Adding OO to C is syntactic sugar. You can already do OO in C. But it would be nice if the syntactic sugar was done right without redefining the bit shift operators to perform I/O on string "standard template" classes where allocation decisions are handled behind your back yet you still have to initialize every member in your constructor by hand because the object is not prezeroed and doing your own memset() on it wipes out RTAI |
| 21:37.01 | landley | I'll stop now. :) |
| 21:37.13 | xorrbit | heh |
| 21:37.37 | xorrbit | IMO if you're doing OO in C and you're not using objective C, you're doing it wrong |
| 21:37.47 | landley | The Linux kernel is doing extensive OO in C. |
| 21:38.21 | landley | Any development philosophy that implies "the linux kernel is doing it wrong" probably does not match reality. |
| 21:38.22 | xorrbit | I suppose there are some exceptions :) |
| 21:38.42 | landley | Objective C is an Apple thing. Haven't seen it used anywhere else. |
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| 21:39.05 | landley | A few friends of mine have gotten excited about it over the years... and then wandered off to do Ruby or some such. |
| 21:39.44 | xorrbit | I went to a code retreat on the weekend, fully knowing people would be using ruby and such |
| 21:39.51 | xorrbit | I brought along a TDD set up in pure C |
| 21:39.53 | xorrbit | it was awesome |
| 21:39.59 | landley | TDD? |
| 21:40.03 | xorrbit | but after 10 minutes of doing TDD in coffeescript, I know I was doign it wrong |
| 21:40.06 | xorrbit | test driven development |
| 21:40.09 | landley | Ah. |
| 21:40.45 | landley | 90% of modern development methodologies are about trying to make development scale to huge complexity levels. |
| 21:40.59 | landley | Which immediately triggers my "solving the wrong problem" instincts. |
| 21:41.00 | landley | KISS. |
| 21:41.34 | landley | Where can we split things into independent modules that don't care what's on the other side of the interface.. |
| 21:41.53 | landley | If I have to care what langauge your shared library is implemented in, it's not really a shared library. |
| 21:42.11 | landley | Is C the right language to be doing this in? |
| 21:42.34 | landley | C is _great_ for certain things, but so is assembly. Most of the same questions apply these days to doing stuff in C that applied to doing them in assembly circa 1985. |
| 21:42.56 | landley | Although lua still needs a standard posix library... :( |
| 21:43.06 | landley | Anyway, back to work... |
| 21:43.09 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:43.09 | xorrbit | indeed |
| 21:43.38 | xorrbit | actually, time for a coffee, then back to work :) |
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| 23:22.47 | landley | Why am I wasting my time rewriting ldd? |
| 23:23.03 | landley | Other than a reaction to reading the uClibc one, that is... |
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