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| 06:13.17 | jrawson | Anyone here done bare-metal development on x86 based systems? I'm trying to figure out a good toolchain to use that's like the redboot gdb stubs + insight and falling very short. |
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| 11:01.10 | T0mW | jrawson: ping |
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| 13:57.44 | jrawson | T0mW: pong |
| 13:58.58 | T0mW | jrawson: I've been working on a PC104+ card with an ATOM cpu, not sure how "bare" you are going. But, I've planned out / using OE to build the filesystem out and lilo for the boot. |
| 13:59.13 | T0mW | jrawson: linux based system. |
| 14:01.43 | T0mW | actually using poky to build the filesystem, it is booting under the lilo generated under poky. |
| 14:02.13 | jrawson | googles as you talk. |
| 14:02.24 | T0mW | insight is being used to do remote debugging from the dev host. |
| 14:02.45 | jrawson | Also, I'm working on being caffinated. It's 7am on the west coast. :) |
| 14:03.37 | T0mW | pretty simple really, but what was a b!tch was figuring out how to get Production techs to install all this. |
| 14:05.16 | T0mW | Solution was to use a PXE boot server (dhcpd) an load a small filesystem (heh 1G) into the thing and run a perl script to partition the drives, copy data into partitions, then invoke lilo to write itself onto the boot sector of the nand driver. |
| 14:05.31 | T0mW | s/nand driver/nand drive |
| 14:06.10 | T0mW | BIG ramdisk during the PXE process |
| 14:06.11 | jrawson | I'm trying to figure out how to run x86 assembly code outside of an operating system context for a class. It's electrical and computer engineering students who aren't computer savvy, per se, but have the tools to envision how an ALU and eventally a CPU are put together. |
| 14:07.46 | T0mW | Your problem, and that of others, is to do the initialization of the PCB hardware. There is not much of a standard arch for x86 machines, they all suck in that everybody has their own northbridge / southbridge chipsets / DRAM technologies, etc. |
| 14:08.04 | T0mW | The x86 is not like an embedded system where the hardware is fairly simple. |
| 14:08.55 | jrawson | noticed. |
| 14:08.57 | T0mW | I would suggest this: start the system using lilo and have it transfer control to your program rather than an initrd. |
| 14:09.29 | T0mW | it will take some hacking of the lilo source on your part to get lilo to do this, i'm sure. |
| 14:09.57 | jrawson | ... yeah, I'm under orders not to hack on code myself. |
| 14:10.08 | jrawson | It burns me a little. |
| 14:10.25 | T0mW | I suggest lilo as it is a fairly simple bootloader. The bootloaders are what give you the run-able core x86 (chipset minimal setup + dram). |
| 14:10.39 | T0mW | did they specify x86 only? |
| 14:10.46 | T0mW | or can you do arm? |
| 14:10.53 | jrawson | Yes. Specifically, Atom. |
| 14:11.40 | jrawson | We're attempting to move from arm to atom, and finding that the way we've done things before is not viable for the class. |
| 14:11.53 | T0mW | unless this is a very advanced class, you are going to get bogged down in hardware initialization. |
| 14:12.41 | T0mW | This is why we use GPL software. Other people love to write bootloader code, they don't do much else, heh. |
| 14:14.08 | T0mW | initialzation into Real Mode might not be that difficult. You might get some hardware i/o (keyboard + video) working... |
| 14:14.55 | T0mW | look at lilo, the cmos rom must set a primitive environment to have lilo run in: dram functional at least. |
| 14:15.38 | T0mW | You won't have any mmu, maybe the hardware for the hard drives would be intialized? |
| 14:16.12 | T0mW | the keyboard port should be functional, iirc that it at 0x42? |
| 14:17.03 | T0mW | jrawson: do you have to replace the cmos rom contents? |
| 14:17.52 | jrawson | I don't think so, we're using mostly off-the-shelf atom dev boards. |
| 14:18.15 | jrawson | And it's not something we're covering in the class. |
| 14:19.26 | T0mW | So, put msdos v3 or v5 on the thing and you'll be in Real Mode. No MMU and you can write anywhere you want to. |
| 14:19.46 | T0mW | no protected mode in msdos, iirc. |
| 14:20.28 | T0mW | hmm, maybe not v5 msdos, that was Win3.1 days, circa 80286. |
| 14:21.15 | T0mW | in any event, that class outline is a huge bit of work. IMHO |
| 14:21.35 | T0mW | jrawson: got to get back to work, good luck. |
| 14:22.36 | jrawson | Thanks for advice. It's been weeks with just me and google trying to figure it out. |
| 14:24.03 | jrawson | s/for/for the/ |
| 14:24.48 | jrawson | heh, that was unexpected. |
| 14:25.08 | jrawson | purl: hello bot. |
| 14:25.08 | purl | ACTION stands up and shouts "HELLO bot.!" |
| 14:25.19 | T0mW | jrawson: keep in mind, entire companies are formed just to initialize the x86 boards: phoenix is one such company. |
| 14:31.42 | jrawson | Yeah, I'm afraid the guy I'm working under may not have fully understood the scope of the problem and the constraints under which he has given me. |
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