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| 01:24.44 | prpplague | doh |
| 01:24.48 | prpplague | my motherboard die |
| 01:24.50 | prpplague | died |
| 01:25.37 | bgamari | Anyone around familiar with the ARM ISA? |
| 01:26.00 | bgamari | I'm trying to add relocation support to a compiler |
| 01:26.33 | bgamari | The ELF for ARM specification seems to disagree with the kernel's implementation |
| 01:26.54 | bgamari | Or anyone know where one might find a simple-minded relocation implementation for ARM? |
| 01:27.04 | bgamari | binutils is a mess |
| 01:31.54 | bgamari | Ahh, never mind |
| 01:32.11 | bgamari | although if anyone is familiar with this sort of thing I'd love to chat |
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| 02:00.43 | edboogie2011 | anybody here have experience on releasing a commercial product with an ethernet MAC address? I know these MAC addresses must be licensed by the "block" from IEEE, I only want to make a small run of 100 units to start, is there a way to just buy 100, or something smaller than buying a whole "block"? |
| 02:02.05 | edboogie2011 | the microcontroller and ethernet PHY I am using is NXP's LPC1768 + National Semi's DP83848J btw |
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| 02:16.20 | SpeedEvil | The stupid way would be to find the cheapest ethernet card on ebay, and buy them. :) |
| 02:16.39 | SpeedEvil | There has to be a better one though. |
| 02:18.09 | edboogie2011 | yeah, the concept of having to register with the IEEE, and the IEEE charging thousands of dollars for the bare minimum block makes it hard for indie companies to make ethernet enabled devices |
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| 02:19.25 | edboogie2011 | SpeedEvil: I have heard of that method as well.. buying lots of old ISA ethernet cards for less than a $1 each |
| 02:21.42 | edboogie2011 | technically is it Illegal to sell a product that can do "MAC cloning" and has no MAC address out of the box |
| 02:22.21 | edboogie2011 | ? |
| 02:23.51 | SpeedEvil | I really doubt it. |
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| 02:24.39 | prpplague | edboogie2011: there is a complete set of mac addresses that allocated for open use |
| 02:25.28 | edboogie2011 | prpplague: does open use include closed source commercial products? |
| 02:26.12 | prpplague | iirc yes |
| 02:26.26 | prpplague | however the probablity of you getting a dup his pretty high |
| 02:26.38 | edboogie2011 | prpplague: is that a problem? |
| 02:26.54 | prpplague | edboogie2011: well yea |
| 02:27.35 | edboogie2011 | I just need to sell a small run to raise some cash, then I will legitamately buy a block from IEEE, but do you think I can get by for the first 100 units using these "open" addresses? |
| 02:27.57 | edboogie2011 | why is having a duplicate MAC addresses a problem for embedded devices? |
| 02:28.02 | prpplague | edboogie2011: what is the probability of having two of these devices on the same network? |
| 02:28.12 | prpplague | ~lart edboogie2011 |
| 02:28.12 | purl | teaches edboogie2011 the basics, including how to RTM |
| 02:28.15 | edboogie2011 | two of my products? high |
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| 02:28.30 | prpplague | edboogie2011: how the heck do you think tcp/ip works? |
| 02:28.42 | roxfan | prpplague: hmm... magic? |
| 02:28.50 | edboogie2011 | oh yeah |
| 02:29.17 | edboogie2011 | right.. TCP/IP, at some layer uses MAC addresses right locally in a network.. I guess at the link layer right? |
| 02:29.21 | edboogie2011 | at the ethernet layer |
| 02:29.35 | SpeedEvil | http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?dDocName=en538613#1 ? |
| 02:29.39 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 02:29.51 | SpeedEvil | ethernet is basically only an issue on the local network |
| 02:30.09 | SpeedEvil | Once you go through a tcp/ip bridge, nothing can see the internal networks MACs |
| 02:30.22 | SpeedEvil | (speaking generally) |
| 02:30.39 | edboogie2011 | well no SpeedEvil: doesn't every TCP packet include the MAC in the frame |
| 02:30.44 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 02:30.48 | edboogie2011 | thats how the cops can figure out the machine of a hacker? |
| 02:30.49 | edboogie2011 | no |
| 02:30.51 | edboogie2011 | ? |
| 02:30.52 | SpeedEvil | It's only in the ethernet packet header. |
| 02:31.01 | SpeedEvil | Real life is not CSI. |
| 02:31.10 | edboogie2011 | ohh and that stripped out before it goes outside of my house (router)? |
| 02:31.14 | SpeedEvil | In real life, the packet contains TCP/IP info only. |
| 02:31.19 | SpeedEvil | Once it leaves your router. |
| 02:31.23 | edboogie2011 | oh wow |
| 02:31.26 | edboogie2011 | i didn't know that |
| 02:31.30 | SpeedEvil | The MAC is only used in the ethernet protocol. |
| 02:31.45 | SpeedEvil | For example, address resolution and ethernet level addressing. |
| 02:32.59 | SpeedEvil | Speaking pragmatically, if you allocate IDs at random, then you need to approach 2^24 devices on a network before you likely get a dupe. |
| 02:33.24 | edboogie2011 | yeah highly unlikely |
| 02:33.29 | edboogie2011 | so I guess I don't need to worry |
| 02:33.42 | SpeedEvil | The above chip with MAC is $.37 |
| 02:33.51 | SpeedEvil | which is quite good value, if you want to do it 'properly' |
| 02:34.14 | edboogie2011 | oooh, so I can buy 100 of those, write down the MAC addresses and have them hardcoded to my units? |
| 02:34.22 | edboogie2011 | I don't want to change my PCB design.. |
| 02:34.35 | edboogie2011 | and I am using an ARM, LPC1768 + DP83848J |
| 02:34.41 | prpplague | grumbles as he returns his desk to some semblance of usability |
| 02:35.24 | SpeedEvil | edboogie2011: yes |
| 02:35.45 | SpeedEvil | edboogie2011: you'd probably want to make a little socket, and reader - I don't think they come with a sheet of paper |
| 02:36.01 | edboogie2011 | SpeedEvil: nice. thank you for finding that chip.. i actually forgot that is possible solution as well..i have heard of these 2K eeproms for this purpose |
| 02:36.28 | SpeedEvil | Infinite desk space would be handy. |
| 02:52.22 | edboogie2011 | anybody have a lot of experience with thermistors, does the beta value matter much? I am using a 10k NTC thermistor to measure temperature in a liquid environment, my temperature range is under between boiling water and ice water. 0 to 100 C. What beta value would you recommend? I am using the thermistor connected to ground, connected to a 10k 1% reference resistor to VDD, to form a voltage devider into an ADC input. |
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| 03:29.25 | SpeedEvil | The beta value doesn't matter much, but it will impact accurcy and range |
| 03:29.57 | edboogie2011 | SpeedEvil: so what is preferable? a higher beta value or a lower one? |
| 03:30.16 | edboogie2011 | I guess I should look at the steinhardt hart equation, that would tell me |
| 03:30.34 | edboogie2011 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinhart%E2%80%93Hart_equation |
| 03:34.52 | edboogie2011 | SpeedEvil: when you work with thermistors, do you use a lookup table or the steinhardt hart equation? |
| 03:35.05 | edboogie2011 | I want to get the highest accuracy possible |
| 03:49.30 | SpeedEvil | It depends - if you've got much more memory than ADC bits, you can just do a full lookup table. |
| 03:49.52 | SpeedEvil | If you've got the code space for the full equation, then you can use that. |
| 03:50.15 | SpeedEvil | Which is better depends on your ADC, I guess. |
| 03:50.40 | SpeedEvil | The nonlinearity means that different bits of the curve would be more or less accurate |
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| 05:38.39 | MonMotha | edboogie2011: given that you've got another level of indirection due to the half bridge, a lookup table may be easiest |
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| 06:57.28 | MonMotha | edboogie2011: also, you can build something that's ethernet "compatible" and uses MAC addresses not allocated by the IEEE. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it, but it isn't illegal (though it might make you a a target for patent claims) |
| 06:58.08 | MonMotha | that said, it's $1500 for a giant block (24 bits worth, IIRC) of MAC addresses. If you're building anything on a production scale, that's just not that much. |
| 06:58.45 | MonMotha | If you need smaller numbers, they offer a cheaper (~$800, IIRC) option, but you only get like 16 bits worth of space. You can also buy things like Dallas 1-wire registered parts. |
| 06:58.56 | MonMotha | lots of ways to get an EUI address |
| 06:59.24 | MonMotha | just do everyone a favor and use the "locally administered" space if you decide to create your own addresses, so you're guaranteed to not collide with anything ever issued by the IEEE |
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| 09:39.45 | SpeedEvil | MonMotha: he was wanting 100 |
| 09:39.59 | SpeedEvil | So 16 bit block doesn't look astounding value |
| 09:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Oon a related matter. |
| 09:40.30 | SpeedEvil | Is it possible to buy 1-wire IDs? |
| 09:40.45 | SpeedEvil | I mean software ID blocks in 1-wire space |
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| 14:40.10 | MonMotha | SpeedEvil: I'm not aware of the administrative policy on that space. I think that the answer is no. |
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| 16:11.10 | CosmicPenguin | I hate stupid log messages, but I never seem to be able to come up with clever ones myself |
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