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| 18:03.05 | *** topic/#edev is Discussion of embedded systems (Hardware/Software/Linux/Commercial Device Repurposing) : Busybox and Buildroot : http://www.elinux.org |
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| 18:44.02 | sjhill | prpplague: they had an IRC policy? |
| 18:44.06 | sjhill | interesting |
| 18:44.36 | sjhill | landley: spent the past few minutes paging back up to read everything you said |
| 18:44.47 | sjhill | well and g1powermac too |
| 18:44.53 | sjhill | interesting stuff |
| 18:44.56 | landley | sjhill: um, ok. (Thanks?) |
| 18:45.11 | landley | normally puts it in a blog nobody reads. |
| 18:45.12 | sjhill | landley: yeah, good insight and research on your part |
| 18:45.20 | landley | "better out than in", or something like that. |
| 18:45.24 | landley | Thanks. |
| 18:45.39 | landley | I try to understand the industry I'm in. |
| 18:46.04 | landley | s/industry/world/ |
| 18:46.09 | landley | purl: quiet you. |
| 18:46.19 | sjhill | As a Christian, what really bothers me is.... |
| 18:46.46 | sjhill | That schools and hospitals were originally built and setup by missionaries...and...they were NONPROFIT |
| 18:47.15 | sjhill | And then someone had the great idea that capitalising it would be a great idea (i.e. greedy) |
| 18:47.17 | landley | I'm pretty sure ancient Athens had schools and hospitals too. |
| 18:47.34 | landley | But yeah, "charitable works" in general tend to cover the basics. |
| 18:47.36 | sjhill | landley: right, i'm talking more the last couple hundred years |
| 18:47.54 | landley | Unfortunately, some people have taken capitalism as their religion, and believe it to be infallible. |
| 18:48.20 | landley | Which implies that if you can't make a monetary profit off of it, you shouldn't do it. |
| 18:48.47 | landley | A viewpoint that renders life kinda pointless, really. "Money is our way of keeping score, let's try to die with as much as we can, because you can't take it with you!" |
| 18:48.50 | landley | Um... ok? |
| 18:48.51 | sjhill | As someone who deals with the less fortunate (poor), I'm starting to despise my Republican roots. |
| 18:49.07 | sjhill | landley: exactly |
| 18:49.08 | landley | The current republican party isn't the same one as 40 years ago. |
| 18:49.14 | sjhill | landley: omg no |
| 18:49.19 | landley | Nixon was to the left of Obama. |
| 18:49.24 | sjhill | lol |
| 18:49.38 | landley | Nah, these guys are following the baby boomers off a cliff. |
| 18:49.50 | sjhill | bbiab, 2 yr old just called me for lunch |
| 18:49.53 | sjhill | landley: yes they are |
| 18:50.46 | landley | In the 50's the baby boomers were kids and everybody was clean-cut child raising mode. In the 60's they were teenagers and we had woodstock, free love, and anti-vietnam protests... |
| 18:51.10 | landley | In the 70's the boomers were in their 20's,working entry level jobs and trying to date. We had disco, leisure suits, and embarassing hair. |
| 18:51.24 | landley | In the 80's the boomers were in their 30's, hit middle management and started earning real money, and we got "greed is good" and yuppiedom. |
| 18:51.38 | landley | In the 90's the boomers were in their 40's, started saving seriously for retirement, and we had a stock market boom. |
| 18:52.37 | landley | IN the 2000's the boomers were in their 50's, started getting old and cranky and worrying about the inevitability of death, and we had "foriegn nations get off our lawn", "kids these days with their turbans and beards", and the rise of evangelical lunatic superchurches. |
| 18:52.50 | landley | Now they're in their 60's, and the trend only intensifies. |
| 18:53.15 | landley | Lots of individuals diverge from the baby boom, but they still exert a disproportionate demographic influence. |
| 18:53.58 | landley | Unfortunately, being old and crotchety and 30 years out of date does not result in a coherent worldview, and the subset of their views that reliably pushes their buttons and gets them motivated turns out to be looney, and increasingly so. |
| 18:55.31 | landley | I'm hoping that in about 10 more years their influence will start to fade, but it's like drowning swimmers pulling other people down with them. I think it's going to get _ugly_ before it goes away. |
| 18:57.01 | landley | (Maybe I'm imagining it, but when the oldest boomers were 24 we landed on the moon. Then "I personally won't be an astronaut" and Nasa gradually lost support. Now "I personally won't ever go into space" means NASA recently lost the ability to send anybody into orbit.) |
| 18:58.05 | landley | If this _is_ as strong an influence as I think it is, then it's ultimately self-correcting. But there's nothing we can do about it for another decade, maybe two... |
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| 19:57.52 | drobbins | landley: ping |
| 19:58.41 | landley | drobbins: pong. |
| 19:59.18 | drobbins | howdy |
| 19:59.24 | landley | Hiya. What's up? |
| 19:59.38 | drobbins | landley: wondering your opinion on the move to deprecate /bin and /sbin and move to /usr |
| 19:59.48 | landley | has enraged the religious arm of the FSF. |
| 19:59.54 | drobbins | landley: as we are getting our lemming marching orders to fall in line and jump off the cliff |
| 20:00.01 | landley | drobbins: did you see the old 2010 busybox posting of mine that was circulating? |
| 20:00.09 | drobbins | landley: nope |
| 20:00.21 | landley | It's been spamming my google vanity search for a while, lemme see... |
| 20:00.21 | ohsix | you know the whole lemmings off a cliff thing was disney forcing them off a cliff; they don't actually do that |
| 20:00.36 | drobbins | landley: because there is a move to move EVERYTHING to /usr, if we keep a separate /sbin and /bin then the impetus is on us to define why and what we are trying to accomplish by doing so. |
| 20:01.08 | landley | drobbins: http://mobile.osnews.com/printer.php?news_id=25556 |
| 20:01.46 | landley | http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3519952 |
| 20:01.50 | landley | And so on, and so forth... |
| 20:02.13 | landley | All of which link to http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/busybox/2010-December/074114.html but sometimes have interesting comments. (The y-combinator one especially, I learned stuff from that...) |
| 20:02.20 | landley | Oh, and the history I got factually wrong: |
| 20:02.33 | landley | Their / drive was not an rk05, it was a much faster disk but only half a megabyte. |
| 20:02.39 | landley | And rk05 stores 2.5 megs, not 1.5. |
| 20:03.08 | landley | So / plus /usr still added up to 3, but I got the split wrong. And the / is faster than /usr was a big reason for their initial what-goes-where decisions. |
| 20:03.23 | landley | (Then they got a second rk05 and put it on /home, and the story continues from there...) |
| 20:03.26 | landley | drobbins: useful? |
| 20:03.31 | ohsix | in fact most of the stuff in those "wildlife documentary" films from disney were staged, being patient costs money |
| 20:03.32 | drobbins | landley: yes, thank you |
| 20:03.51 | landley | drobbins: random wikipedians asked me for corroborating evidence on the above. |
| 20:04.08 | landley | I couldn't dig up my original source but managed to find references on dennis ritchie's home page. |
| 20:04.40 | landley | (That's where I noticed that the /disk was .5 megs and rk05 is 2.5. He actuall _did_ describe his layout in one of the old presentation notes circa 1973 or so...) |
| 20:05.12 | landley | ohsix: indeed. |
| 20:05.50 | landley | I note that the discworld versions parasailed down cliffs, and jumped into lakes wearing little inner tubes. |
| 20:06.09 | landley | Ingeniously constructed from the native grasses, if i recall... |
| 20:06.41 | landley | drobbins: I can dig up my corroborating links email and forward it to you if you care, but in general "this is why that happened, it's silly to keep it" should be enough. |
| 20:06.43 | ohsix | i wonder if disney and baby boomers are causally related |
| 20:06.49 | landley | And I note my email predates red hat's actions by a couple years. :) |
| 20:06.56 | drobbins | landley: ok |
| 20:07.00 | landley | ohsix: nah, there was this war, you see... |
| 20:07.12 | drobbins | landley: so the question is whether their new plan is smart, not whether the old one is stupid. |
| 20:07.18 | landley | ohsix: Or do you mean going the other way? |
| 20:07.25 | landley | drobbins: yup. |
| 20:07.28 | drobbins | landley: do you see any use for the split currently? |
| 20:07.35 | landley | I've been symlinking /lib /bin and /sbin into /usr since about 2001. |
| 20:07.36 | drobbins | landley: re: embedded, single-user mode, etc. |
| 20:07.55 | landley | No, linux 0.0.1 had an initial ramdisk. |
| 20:07.56 | ohsix | i mean all that classy stuff they scrubbed from their corpus, so yea the other way |
| 20:08.06 | landley | ohsix: it's all on bittorrent. |
| 20:08.13 | ohsix | :] |
| 20:08.13 | landley | Including "song of the south"... |
| 20:08.28 | ohsix | yea but they're not taking it out of the disney vault for a limited time! |
| 20:09.05 | landley | ohsix: http://craphound.com/?p=2758 |
| 20:09.10 | landley | Good video, quite long. |
| 20:09.28 | landley | linked to a dozen or so of those a couple blog entries back... |
| 20:09.36 | landley | is resigned to nobody ever reading his blog. |
| 20:10.08 | landley | Some random red hat employee, harald welte, even The Failure of Open Source all got quoted about toybox. But the guy who _wrote_ toybox? Oh no, that's not interesting... |
| 20:10.17 | landley | shrugs. |
| 20:10.24 | landley | shut up and showed them the code. |
| 20:10.35 | landley | needs to go do more of that, actually... |
| 20:11.33 | MonMotha | landley: IIRC, Harald Welte is/was a major contributor to netfilter |
| 20:11.40 | MonMotha | erm, ok |
| 20:27.12 | slashbeast | anyone know how exact work resume from suspend? Before resume I have ssh deamon running and configured etherned card, do I need to cleanup it before resume from hibernation? |
| 20:27.57 | slashbeast | I am unable to test it as my kvm guests die after resume from s4 |
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| 22:17.38 | tanlaan | Hey, I was wondering if anyone on here was actively interested in hacking the peek |
| 22:18.40 | calculus | some of the guys here did quite a bit of work already and documented it on elinux.org |
| 22:18.58 | calculus | http://www.elinux.org/Peek |
| 22:20.42 | tanlaan | Yea, I came across it while googling :). I was hoping someone here already had the hardware |
| 22:21.12 | tanlaan | And possibly had been playing with it already |
| 22:21.52 | calculus | interesting... at some point I edited the page |
| 22:22.02 | calculus | must have been for wmat's contest or something |
| 22:22.28 | tanlaan | I just sent out the shopping to get a case of them. I think I'd be cool to install an sd card reader and throw an eyefi in it |
| 22:23.16 | tanlaan | Minimum distro of Linux, wifi with mobile data pay as you go through ata go phone |
| 22:23.17 | prpplague | tanlaan: yea i did some but it really wasn't worthy of more invested time |
| 22:25.30 | tanlaan | Ahh I see, well I don't have anything going on right now and figured it would be fun to have a chance to break into a device and try to change it for the better |
| 22:26.51 | tanlaan | I wonder when they will release source code and get documentation of some form available. I know there may be an nda involved with the ti docs |
| 22:29.33 | prpplague | tanlaan: never |
| 22:29.47 | prpplague | tanlaan: hence the reason it is not worth of hacking |
| 22:35.33 | tanlaan | Interesting, I can't find anything on the source, just Dev tools being released |
| 22:41.13 | prpplague | tanlaan: it is closed source by a third party and will never be released |
| 22:50.40 | MonMotha | ok, I want a laptop with the iPad3's display |
| 22:50.54 | MonMotha | small but ridiculously high DPI |
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| 23:40.25 | g1powermac | MonMotha, heh, I'd love to play with one, but between the dirt on my glasses and my lcd monitor, I doubt I'd notice the difference ;-) |
| 23:41.54 | MonMotha | g1powermac: I've got 1920x1200 on my 15" laptop, and I find the screen's DPI a limiting factor. I think ~265DPI would finally get me to the point where text size is the actual limitation |
| 23:42.04 | MonMotha | seeing as how that's essentially (low) print quality |
| 23:42.54 | g1powermac | ahh, nice |
| 23:43.13 | g1powermac | thats the resolution I have on this 17" lcd in my laptop |
| 23:43.54 | g1powermac | I wonder how the size difference compares |
| 23:44.11 | MonMotha | g1powermac: I'd rather have a ~12" machine for portability, but I wanted 1200 lines minimum, and that meant 15" at the time |
| 23:44.16 | MonMotha | now it means...well, good luck |
| 23:44.35 | g1powermac | whether you could notice the difference in dpi between a 15" and a 17" screen at this resolution |
| 23:45.03 | MonMotha | me? probably, but I apparently have inordinately good eyesight |
| 23:45.42 | MonMotha | I already have my text set generally as small as I can and have it still be legible. I can read smaller text, but only if it's got the DPI to back it up. |
| 23:45.54 | g1powermac | yea, when I was originally shopping for a new laptop I wanted 12" for portability, but then realized that I never really took it anywhere much |
| 23:46.25 | MonMotha | same, though I was traveling recently and found this to be a hair big |
| 23:46.27 | g1powermac | so I said, meh, go for the largest version |
| 23:46.44 | MonMotha | 17" would have just been unwieldy even for porting between home and office |
| 23:47.16 | g1powermac | it is if you don't have a case for it |
| 23:47.21 | g1powermac | with handles |
| 23:48.29 | g1powermac | though I have dragged mine around without the case |
| 23:48.37 | g1powermac | not too bad really |
| 23:48.47 | MonMotha | I do have a case, with handles, but I'm not sure a 17" would fit. Maybe barely. |
| 23:49.19 | MonMotha | I just don't see the point of a larger machine unless it's got a lot more pixels |
| 23:49.31 | g1powermac | myeah |
| 23:50.05 | g1powermac | I really didn't shop for pixels when I bought mine, I was looking for express card slots instead |
| 23:50.26 | g1powermac | (the macbook pros only have expresscard slots in the 17" version) |
| 23:51.06 | MonMotha | that seems like a mac thing |
| 23:51.37 | g1powermac | yea |
| 23:53.14 | g1powermac | I do have to say one thing about the mbp, I have yet to see any other 17" laptop that has such an extremely solid case |
| 23:53.52 | g1powermac | I can lift the one corner without any flex in the case |
| 23:58.56 | MonMotha | my thinkpad is pretty solid, but it's not a single piece of metal |