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| 10:36.39 | Mazingaro | hi |
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| 14:48.11 | Posterdati | hi |
| 14:48.43 | Posterdati | is there anyone using matrixssl on cortex-m3? Does it requires _sbrk, _read and _write? |
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| 15:23.24 | landley | So how was CELF? |
| 15:27.10 | Posterdati | landley: ? |
| 15:29.39 | slashbeast | landley: Hi, can you tell me if there is any possible issue with using fuse for switch_root? |
| 15:29.51 | slashbeast | I want to use unionfs-fuse instead of aufs for my initramfs. |
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| 16:16.57 | landley | Posterdati: Consumer Electronics Linux Form's big annual meeting thing in california. It was this past weekend. |
| 16:17.46 | landley | The Linux Foundation crunched up CELF and sandwiched its conference in between two others (the android builders summit and some other thing), and I was wondering how much of it disappeared this year and whether there's any of it left. prpplague was presumably attending... |
| 16:18.02 | landley | slashbeast: _possible_ issue? There's always a _possible_ issue. :) |
| 16:18.10 | landley | In theory it should work. |
| 16:18.29 | landley | In practice, if the fuse program you're running depends on anything out of the initramfs after it launches, those files are going away... |
| 16:18.57 | landley | (If it opens files and /dev nodes, those files should be pinned even if the directory links to them go away. That's just how unix works.) |
| 16:19.23 | landley | But if it needs to open anything new out of /proc and such, those won't be there anymore after the switch_root... |
| 16:19.36 | landley | If you really need that, you might consider just chroot instead of switch_root. |
| 16:19.44 | landley | exec chroot /newroot /init |
| 16:19.51 | landley | The new one should still be PID 1. |
| 16:23.59 | slashbeast | landley: what is the adventage switch_root over chroot, cleaning the initramfs root? |
| 16:24.10 | landley | slashbeast: yup, freeing space. |
| 16:24.27 | landley | The stuff in initramfs doesn't swap out; if you're not going to use it you probably want to free it. |
| 16:24.54 | landley | But it's a bit tough to delete everything out of your $PATH and _then_ chroot as a separate operation, unless you have a single binary do it. |
| 16:25.30 | landley | And it's tricky to use dynamically linked binaries out of the new root filesystem before you've chrooted into it because the dynamic linker uses a fixed absolute path. (You can work around that with a symlink...) |
| 16:26.01 | landley | And of course anything doing an "rm -rf /" variant as the root user, you kind of want to use an existing tested version of instead of playing around with yourself. :) |
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| 16:54.23 | slashbeast | landley: putting this issue aside, do you know about anything other than aufs or unionfs-fuse? I see that openwrt use mini_fo but I did not found any patches for current kernel. And aufs-utils need kernel sources to be builit |
| 16:54.57 | landley | There have been something like two dozen fuse attempts over the years, I expect. |
| 16:55.25 | landley | http://valerieaurora.org/union/ |
| 16:55.42 | landley | That's the expert. (Al viro knows more, but Val's worked on it way more.) |
| 16:56.00 | landley | Not counting the weird stuff btree-fs was working on, but that's got Oracle all over it... |
| 16:57.37 | landley | Then again, she retired from Red Hat last year to go work on gender inequality in the programming field. (It would be impolite to say "increasing it by removing herself there from", but I'm still waiting for results beyond that...) |
| 16:57.59 | landley | http://adainitiative.org/ |
| 16:58.35 | Posterdati | landley: never been in California |
| 17:00.00 | av500 | landley: I am sure it's not statistically sound, but with all women I know in IT working wrt something "inequality" related, the actual "inequality" has to go up :) |
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| 17:59.23 | Posterdati | how can I implement __get_MSP() on arm-none-eabi for cortex-m3? Thanks |
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| 18:56.22 | landley | slashbeast: ah, she had another reason for retiring. http://blog.valerieaurora.org/2012/02/20/i-am-disabled/ |
| 18:59.11 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 19:00.24 | slashbeast | landley: ouch |
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| 20:07.03 | Mirell | Hmm.. |
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| 20:52.22 | landley | Always fun when the simple thing you budget an hour for hinges on the fact that the existing binary cannot be reproduced by any documented procedure within the company. Wheee... |
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| 20:54.26 | alex4nder | landley: I learned yestrday that my client was producing their firmware images for manufacturing by having some guy tweak a running unit, and just gziping up the contents of the different mtds. |
| 20:54.33 | alex4nder | they have no way to reproduct it from source. |
| 20:54.42 | SpeedEvil | Eeek. |
| 20:54.44 | landley | That's terrifying. |
| 20:54.55 | landley | Not really _surprising_, but terrifying. |
| 20:55.00 | alex4nder | exactly. |
| 20:55.03 | landley | Luckily, Darwin catches up with these guys eventually... |
| 20:55.05 | alex4nder | Hurr.. what? |
| 20:55.38 | alex4nder | I think they need their engineer replaced with a few shell scripts. |
| 20:55.51 | landley | I remember some company finding out a couple of years ago that "rsync your main server to your backup server every night" was not, in fact, a sufficient backup policy for a large for-profit business. |
| 20:55.57 | landley | They went out of business. Suddenly. |
| 20:56.22 | landley | Some runaway process zeroed out the database, and then cron helpfully rsynced the zeroes over their only backup... |
| 20:56.31 | landley | It made slashdot. |
| 20:57.04 | alex4nder | sick |
| 20:58.23 | landley | Yeah. It was a company with something like $100 million of VC too. Went from rapidly growing to "we got nothing" overnight. |
| 20:58.38 | landley | I can't remember their name because I'd never heard of them before that though. Some web service... |
| 20:59.06 | alex4nder | just wait until dropbox does that |
| 20:59.48 | SpeedEvil | I'm just waiting for the FBI warning on dropbox. |
| 21:00.47 | landley | SpeedEvil: nah, MPAA/RIAA/EIEIO/FSF will take 'em out first. |
| 21:00.51 | landley | They'll do a megaupload thingy on 'em. |
| 21:01.06 | landley | All sharing services are going to be anonymous, encrypted, and offshore in a couple years. |
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| 21:01.48 | landley | http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/02/secret-service-asks-for-shutdown-of-legit-website-over-user-content-godaddy-complies.ars |
| 21:01.53 | SpeedEvil | It's scary how fragile some infrastructure can be. |
| 21:01.54 | landley | When it comes to web hosting, the US is _toast_. |
| 21:02.08 | landley | Unfortunately, Obama turned out to be a Republican. |
| 21:02.23 | landley | I suppose his support for FISA during the campaign was a bit of a tip-off there... |
| 21:02.38 | SpeedEvil | I was an idle reader of airdisaster.net (IIRC) which was a fascinating forum, with ~100k posts on. |
| 21:02.53 | SpeedEvil | From actual pilots and engineers discussing disasters. |
| 21:03.14 | SpeedEvil | And then one day 'oops - turns out our backups diddn't work' |
| 21:03.20 | landley | Sadness. |
| 21:03.31 | SpeedEvil | One reason usenet was good. |
| 21:04.21 | landley | I've got the stuff I really care about on my netbook, a server upstairs, my hosted server, a USB key I carry with me at all times, another USB drive, and probably elsewhere. |
| 21:04.28 | SpeedEvil | Arbitrary client, arbitrary server, no single-points-of-failure |
| 21:04.32 | landley | The downside would be figuring out what the most _current_ backup is... |
| 21:06.18 | SpeedEvil | I'm in the very, very silly position of backing up my laptop to my phone. |
| 21:06.32 | SpeedEvil | - / is ~16G |
| 21:06.38 | SpeedEvil | I have 32 on the phone |
| 21:06.49 | SpeedEvil | rsync |
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| 21:11.16 | landley | SpeedEvil: not as silly as you'd think. |
| 21:11.35 | landley | Sigh, I need to write up a page on my mainframe->minicomputer->microcomputer->smartphone rant. |
| 21:12.03 | SpeedEvil | I know - it's technically logical - it just seems insane. |
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| 22:13.57 | calculus | landley: write it up? I have seen it a number of times on your blog |
| 22:14.09 | landley | calculus: it's on my todo list. :) |
| 22:14.31 | landley | I actually mean to have it as a page on http://landley.net/toybox because it's part of the rationale of the project. |
| 22:14.51 | landley | Providing the standard command line utilities for android is a big deal due to this. |
| 22:15.21 | landley | I note that ubuntu seems to have twigged to the existence of USB docking stations: http://lwn.net/Articles/482760/ |
| 22:16.06 | landley | But requiring vanilla linux with gnu userspace on a smart phone is like installing AT&T System V on a PC and expecting that to take over the world. |
| 22:16.50 | landley | (Yes, it's great you could port the minicomputer OS, but people are gonna deploy DOS apps in the new environment and build up from there. They're not going to run ports of the old apps on a port of the old OS.) |
| 22:16.59 | landley | Yes, people tried way back then... |
| 22:18.02 | Mirell | landley: Book! Book I say. Book. |
| 22:18.11 | landley | Mirell: you're right. |
| 22:18.15 | alex4nder | just put up your IRC logs for sale on Amazon. |
| 22:18.24 | landley | alex4nder: um, no. |
| 22:18.31 | alex4nder | yes? |
| 22:19.11 | landley | can't stand to watch his own talks, but gave a talk on something related to this once... |
| 22:21.04 | landley | Oh that's terrifying: http://blip.tv/flourishconf/the-prototype-and-the-fan-club-3537808 |
| 22:21.13 | landley | Sigh. That's probably completely incoherent. |
| 22:21.34 | Mirell | Scratchy audio. |
| 22:21.48 | landley | Possibly http://www.flourishconf.com/flourish2010/sites/default/files/landley.txt would make it less unintelligible, but I doubt it... |
| 22:23.20 | alex4nder | when was the last time you watched a talk that was actually worth something? |
| 22:23.46 | Mirell | Hmm. |
| 22:23.48 | Mirell | Yesterday? |
| 22:23.52 | ohsix | last time i was on ted.com |
| 22:24.32 | alex4nder | huh |
| 22:24.44 | alex4nder | I guess I'm going to the wrong talks. |
| 22:26.02 | ohsix | last bad talk i can remember seeing is that one german guy that hated pulseaudio and systemd and stuff, and lennart was in the audience (but i read the brief months earlier and knew what i was in for, lennart really made it worth seeing) |
| 22:26.43 | landley | alex4nder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPQViNNOAkw |
| 22:26.51 | landley | http://youtube.com/watch?v=AyoNHIl-QLQ |
| 22:26.59 | landley | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645 |
| 22:27.10 | landley | http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5503858974016723264 |
| 22:27.24 | landley | And so on... |
| 22:33.39 | alex4nder | landley: nope. |
| 22:34.04 | landley | alex4nder: what was the question? |
| 22:34.37 | alex4nder | landley: not sure, but you tried to answer it. |
| 22:34.47 | landley | Well, there you go then. |
| 22:34.53 | alex4nder | exactly. |
| 22:35.12 | alex4nder | ad neaseum |
| 22:36.52 | alex4nder | oh shit, I found one |
| 22:37.09 | alex4nder | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5IDAnB_rns |
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