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| 19:33.40 | slashbeast | landley: do you know how can I find proper CONFIG_ value based on the kernel module? |
| 19:34.01 | landley | slashbeast: you have to look in the makefiles. |
| 19:34.19 | landley | That's where the association between config symbol and module name lives. |
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| 19:50.59 | slashbeast | there is a localyesconfig which parse lsmod and enable the modules with all its deps. |
| 19:51.02 | slashbeast | hmm. |
| 19:51.43 | landley | Sorry, distracted. |
| 19:51.46 | landley | I can look up the thing... |
| 19:52.19 | landley | After it pulls 7789 commits. Apparently I don't use the vanilla kernel source repo on this machine much. :) |
| 19:53.32 | slashbeast | thanks anyway. I just want to understand how it choose the modules and its deps so I can script it. |
| 19:53.36 | calculus | landley: is perl still required for the kernel sources? I remember you had some perl removal patches floating around |
| 19:53.47 | slashbeast | something like landley's miniconfig + needed hardware modules. |
| 19:54.03 | slashbeast | calculus: at least localyesconfig/localmodconfig use perl script. |
| 19:54.10 | slashbeast | just looked ad the code. |
| 19:54.11 | slashbeast | at^ |
| 19:55.17 | landley | find . -name Makefile | xargs grep "mymodule[.]o" |
| 19:56.03 | landley | For example, find . -name Makefile | xargs grep "xfs\.o" pulled up fs/xfs/Makefile:obj-$(CONFIG_XFS_FS)+= xfs.o |
| 19:56.12 | landley | Thus the config symbol is XFS_FS. |
| 19:56.34 | slashbeast | and I can use modules.dep to detect deps |
| 19:56.34 | landley | calculus: the most recent are always in my aboriginal linux repository patches dir. Lemme pull up the link... |
| 19:56.35 | slashbeast | :D |
| 19:56.37 | slashbeast | landley: thank you |
| 19:57.28 | landley | http://landley.net/hg/aboriginal/file/tip/patches/ files linux-noperl-*.patch |
| 19:58.22 | slashbeast | patches@7e918ec092c9: not found in manifest |
| 19:58.46 | landley | Most recent submission upstream: http://lkml.indiana.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1201.2/02849.html |
| 19:58.47 | slashbeast | http://landley.net/hg/aboriginal/file/tip/sources/patches/ |
| 19:59.09 | landley | slashbeast: huh. I screwed up my repo when I shuffled directories around. Oops. |
| 19:59.23 | landley | I'll have to fix that when I get home... |
| 20:01.02 | landley | It works as http://landley.net/hg/aboriginal/file/7e918ec092c9/sources/patches/ |
| 20:01.07 | landley | but not if I say "tip". |
| 20:01.15 | landley | Did dreamhost laterally upgrade mercurial again? Sigh... |
| 20:01.26 | landley | I should be able to say "tip" as the commit name... |
| 20:02.24 | landley | I can do it on http://selenic.com/hg/file/tip/mercurial/httpclient so why can't I do it on the other link... |
| 20:02.45 | landley | Oh _now_ it works. |
| 20:03.13 | landley | slashbeast: ah, I see what I did wrong. And your link fixed it. |
| 20:03.15 | landley | My bad. :) |
| 20:03.33 | landley | wanders off on tangents sometimes... |
| 20:04.18 | slashbeast | ;-) |
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| 21:07.22 | landley | waves at lfelipe. |
| 21:07.36 | landley | Any news on the hg-git stuff? |
| 21:07.47 | landley | hasn't had a chance to look at that in weeks... |
| 21:09.58 | lfelipe | landley: nope, I completely gave up on that |
| 21:11.33 | lfelipe | I could get the hg to git transition working nicely, but afterwards pushing stuff from one to the other (in any direction) did not work at all |
| 21:29.11 | landley | lfelipe: Hmmm, I should take another swing at it. |
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| 22:44.58 | landley | is still amazed by the way the "debate over non-GPL busybox" was "settled" by a lawyer talking to a conference organizer. |
| 22:45.31 | landley | Apparently all we need to do to fix the israel-palestine thing is to get the building's janitor to talk to the pizza delivery guy. |
| 22:46.08 | landley | needs to stop reading linux weekly news comments. |
| 22:51.44 | prpplague | landley: oh something posted on lwn? |
| 22:51.49 | prpplague | needs to check |
| 22:53.21 | landley | Eh, nothing important. http://lwn.net/Articles/483315 |
| 22:53.48 | landley | http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Debate-over-non-GPL-version-of-BusyBox-supposedly-settled-1441740.html |
| 22:54.36 | landley | Tim emailed me to say how the CELF meeting went (it didn't, they didn't even vote on anything and nobody's funding nothing because large corporations are risk averse and "controversy" is something they don't want to get on them). |
| 22:55.36 | landley | In passing he mentioned that he disagrees with Bradley's characterization of their meeting, but isn't responding because he doesn't want to prolong the "controversy" and thus won't disagree with anybody saying it's resolved. |
| 22:55.49 | landley | As far as I can tell, he just got tired of arguing with Bradley and stopped, and Bradley took this as agreement. |
| 22:55.51 | landley | shrugs. |
| 22:56.25 | prpplague | landley: thats pretty much what i got from Tim as well, he looked totally worn out over it by the end of ELC |
| 22:56.59 | landley | I'm trying to think if I've ever received a dime from Tim for anything. |
| 22:57.15 | landley | I know he paid my way to speak at CELF a couple times, but I think both times he made the travel arrangements rather than me spending money up front. |
| 22:57.25 | landley | (I _never_ would have traveled Alaska Air otherwise.) |
| 22:58.52 | landley | So now it looks like they have several companies lined up that want to donate money to toybox development anonymously, but nobody who wants to actually act as the middleman to _collect_ that money. |
| 22:59.07 | landley | I find all this highly amusing, and don't really care too much if it happens or not. |
| 22:59.16 | landley | I'm working on toybox anyway. |
| 22:59.56 | landley | I'm pissed at the FSF, and the lawsuits, and I'm mildly annoyed at the barebox guys, and I think busybox has turned into something vaguely unpleasant on a technical level too. |
| 23:00.00 | landley | Wanna fix it. |
| 23:00.56 | landley | My annoyance at the barebox guys is due to http://elinux.org/index.php?title=Busybox_replacement&oldid=97076 |
| 23:01.03 | landley | I'm all for them going "we provide an alternative too". |
| 23:01.21 | landley | Inserting a giant multi-page ad at the start of the page and saying "we've proven we can do X"? |
| 23:01.25 | landley | Not doing any new research? |
| 23:01.53 | landley | Thinking that providing fsck_ffs and a berkeley packet filter control is a good fit for android? |
| 23:02.25 | landley | Thinking that gluing together a couple dozen existing packages into a single binary without factoring out the common code and doing more cleanups than actual development is somehow accomplishing something? |
| 23:02.59 | landley | Mostly it's inserting their thing at the start of a page I wrote, simultaneously trying to leverage my contributions and occlude them That was tacky. |
| 23:03.22 | landley | shrugs. |
| 23:03.46 | landley | I no longer use a third party wiki for the roadmap, I copied it to the toybox website instead and I need to do cleanups on it anyway as part of the 0.2.1 release. |
| 23:04.06 | landley | The implemented command list is totally different, and I want to color code the "implemented" vs "unimplemented" stuff. |
| 23:05.45 | prpplague | landley: yea i feel your frustration |
| 23:07.37 | prpplague | landley: i've wanted to post arguments several times on the LWN stuff, but it is just so silly and it appears that no one is actually going to caputulate much less admit understanding from the others point of view |
| 23:08.10 | prpplague | landley: basically they have used a M$/Apple tactic on their own open source community |
| 23:24.10 | landley | The h-online guy wondered on twitter if I wanted to be interviewed so I wouldn't be 2/3 down the page. :) |
| 23:24.41 | landley | prpplague: explain? who used a what tactic? |
| 23:27.20 | prpplague | landley: basically the opponents of toybox have used a wide range of FUD to keep Sony and other companies from supporting toybox |
| 23:27.34 | prpplague | landley: and i suspect that LF had some words with Tim last week as well |
| 23:27.49 | landley | Yeah. But they can't stop _me_ from working on it. (Although they've tried various implied legal threats about that too, which was hilarious.) |
| 23:28.26 | landley | prpplague: eh, Jim Zemlin already didn't particularly want to fund something I was involved with. Bad memories of when I did a documentation fellowship for them. |
| 23:28.54 | landley | (The fact that they turned out not to have any clear idea what they wanted _done_ was, apparently, my fault. :) |
| 23:30.02 | landley | (A problem statement and a plan to fix it do not, in fact, turn out to be the same thing. Who knew?) |
| 23:30.48 | landley | I did an OLS paper on that... |
| 23:31.40 | prpplague | landley: yea i recall that |
| 23:31.57 | landley | Toybox itself has emerged from all this in great shape, with no money changing hands so far (that I am aware of). |
| 23:32.25 | landley | I got a half-dozen new contributors, to the point where the code _I_ want to write has been completely subordinated to all the code review and cleanup on submissions I've had to do. :) |
| 23:32.33 | landley | There's already enough material to justify another release, and then some. |
| 23:32.34 | prpplague | landley: what kind of impllied legal threats? |
| 23:32.48 | prpplague | nice |
| 23:33.07 | landley | Nobody ever reads my blog... |
| 23:33.21 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 23:33.21 | landley | http://landley.net/notes-2012.html#10-02-2012 |
| 23:33.32 | prpplague | landley: i usually read in spurts |
| 23:33.43 | prpplague | it has just been a mad house for the last 2 months |
| 23:34.04 | landley | Some Red Hat guy's blog makes lwn.net. |
| 23:34.17 | landley | Harald Welte's blog is quoted as a follow-up. |
| 23:34.23 | landley | Oh well... |
| 23:34.29 | landley | 's what I get for not using wordpress, I suppose. |
| 23:39.13 | prpplague | landley: well i think the whole thing really highlights some of the zealots in the OSS community |
| 23:39.35 | landley | The FSF never came up with a usable kernel. |
| 23:40.01 | landley | At least four different projects are working to replace their toolchain. (llvm, pcc, open64, tcc). |
| 23:40.10 | landley | And you can swap out busybox for their command line stuff. |
| 23:40.17 | landley | Android has explicitly rejected them. |
| 23:40.24 | landley | (Well, their license.) |
| 23:40.48 | landley | GPLv3 split the community that had formed around GPLv2. |
| 23:41.42 | landley | I'd expect a concentration of crazy with them the same way I see it with the Republicans: they're driving all the non-extremists away and moving the overton window within their own conversations. |
| 23:42.40 | SpeedEvil | I understand where GPLv3 is coming from. But... |
| 23:42.57 | SpeedEvil | I question if it can have any significant impact - for that reason. |
| 23:43.53 | alex4nder | it's just an example of the market working around "damage" |
| 23:44.23 | alex4nder | poor BSD |
| 23:47.35 | alex4nder | maybe AT&T can be blamed for the GPL getting any real traction due to Linux. |
| 23:48.32 | SpeedEvil | giggled really hard at the latest SCO twitches. |
| 23:53.26 | landley | alex4nder: Linus Torvalds is an excellent project manager. |
| 23:53.34 | landley | That's why Linux succeeded where the BSDs failed. |
| 23:53.39 | alex4nder | hahaha |
| 23:54.00 | landley | FreeBSD did better than the others, but any time it got momentum Apple would come along and hire away Jordan Hubbard and so on. It tended to get looted for people, and they went. |
| 23:54.28 | landley | GPLv2 was quite good at preventing this... but it didn't prevent Google from staffing a while _new_ group and doing "we'll release the code when it's dead" forks. |
| 23:54.57 | landley | A license _can't_ solve that problem. Android periodically resyncs with the outside project, but there are android patches that haven't gone into vanilla for 5 years and Google is 100% ok with this. |
| 23:55.10 | landley | Not just patches, extensive infrastructure. |
| 23:55.42 | landley | alex4nder: The Linux guys have invented new ways to scale their development size at least 3 times now. |
| 23:57.16 | landley | Linus has "burned out" and the community reorganized around him. Two big ones were when maintainers were introduced, when lieutenants were introduced, when distributed source control came in, doing quarterly stable releases instead of the old "when it's finished" multi-year 2.3/2.5 branches... |
| 23:57.20 | alex4nder | landley: and the usual suspects are still the ones doing most of the work. |
| 23:57.31 | landley | Yes and no. |
| 23:57.43 | landley | Alan Cox semi-retired. |
| 23:57.54 | landley | I remember when Greg KH first showed up. |
| 23:58.39 | landley | If I recall, Andrew Morton wasn't around during the 2.3 development cycle, he's more recent than that... |
| 23:59.11 | landley | The usual suspects are still involved because they can switch employers but keep working on the open source project. |
| 23:59.30 | landley | Linus went from student to transmeta to osdl to linux foundation. |
| 23:59.35 | landley | Andrew went to Google. |
| 23:59.56 | landley | Lots of people joined IBM and then left IBM, went between SuSE and Red Hat, etc... |