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| 15:26.49 | madsy | What's a good board if I only need basic graphics / color display and access to ethernet? |
| 15:27.05 | madsy | And NAND or ROM |
| 15:27.42 | T0mW | I would say, depends on price. |
| 15:29.56 | landley | madsy: if you can get a raspberry PI, you can't beat $25 with hdmi out. |
| 15:30.23 | landley | Or did you want _integreated_ graphics? |
| 15:30.29 | ohsix | the binary broadcom blob sucks a lot too |
| 15:34.17 | T0mW | http://www.armkits.com/Product/SBC2440-III.asp |
| 15:35.30 | T0mW | I'm a bit more demanding than 'bare bones' |
| 15:56.12 | madsy | landley: I thought of that, but finding a low-cost lcd display with HDMI seems difficult |
| 15:56.55 | madsy | T0mW: Costs have to be low. |
| 15:57.43 | T0mW | heh, finding a low cost display itself is difficult |
| 15:57.53 | madsy | It's difficult to beat the Raspberry Pi on price. But there has to small and cheap displays compatible with it |
| 15:57.55 | T0mW | assuming color TFT + touch? |
| 15:58.24 | madsy | Touch is not important. Let's say 6" 320x240 |
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| 16:01.17 | T0mW | well, if cost is a primary consideration, you may have to wander around the surplus market (web). TFT is still pricey, you may still be able to get 6.4" 640x480 displays that were used for the discontinued Amanda product. |
| 16:01.20 | T0mW | http://store.earthlcd.com/LCD-Products |
| 16:02.12 | T0mW | That would be one place to start. I got some 320x240 mono and 640x480 color touch from them a few years ago. |
| 16:02.51 | T0mW | bare bones LCDs though, you have to figure out how to wire them up. They mostly have data sheets on them though. |
| 16:04.27 | prpplague | Indeed |
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| 16:05.45 | T0mW | hmm, looks like EarthLCD is no longer a clearing house of surplus lcd. |
| 16:05.52 | landley | I left the all hands meeting early when people started giving a "Quality award" to each other. |
| 16:05.58 | landley | I may not be cut out for this. |
| 16:06.00 | T0mW | heh |
| 16:06.18 | T0mW | landley: problem with bile eruption? |
| 16:06.18 | prpplague | Hehe |
| 16:06.35 | T0mW | *choke* |
| 16:06.50 | prpplague | No self repecting engineer is |
| 16:07.17 | landley | It's not that we changed our logo to "the brown ring of quality" a few months ago. It was that they wouldn't show us the new logo until 40 minutes into the meeting about it. |
| 16:07.27 | landley | And then had brochures about it. |
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| 16:07.57 | landley | No really. The new logo is on the wikipedia page even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycom |
| 16:09.07 | landley | Oh wow, the video is on the web page. http://www.polycom.com/company/about_us/brand.html |
| 16:09.20 | T0mW | thinks it looks like abstract rendering of large intestine |
| 16:09.39 | landley | "A transformation that powers a universal connection." That phrase was _workshopped_. |
| 16:09.55 | landley | T0mW: in the meeting I was thinking "tapeworm". That really stands out in black and white. |
| 16:10.02 | T0mW | lol |
| 16:10.06 | landley | Sigh. Not my place to criticize. |
| 16:10.16 | landley | I'm very much not a graphic artist. |
| 16:10.46 | T0mW | yeah, unless it comes to a bit of driver code (lcd). |
| 16:12.46 | madsy | T0mW: Thanks :) |
| 16:13.42 | SpeedEvil | landley: One of those little ties that holds a 4-pack of beer together, scrunched up |
| 16:17.50 | T0mW | madsy: oh, hey, they still do sell individual panels: http://store.earthlcd.com/LCD-Panels |
| 16:31.08 | aholler_ | hehe, sometimes an old gcc bug still twitches ;) http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=2222 |
| 16:34.45 | landley | aholler_: I thought patching the build infrastructure was considered a normal part of compiling gcc. |
| 16:38.49 | aholler_ | maybe, but thats such a generic bug and easy to fix (or just remove that switch from configure). I though it already got fixed. ;) |
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| 17:32.42 | landley | slashbeast: so what was the mdadm issue? |
| 17:33.07 | landley | I saw the release on twitter, the git log isn't showing me a specific fix... |
| 17:36.47 | slashbeast | landley: I sent you a mail about it |
| 17:36.58 | slashbeast | two missing symbols: |
| 17:36.58 | slashbeast | UCLIBC_HAS_FTW=y |
| 17:36.59 | slashbeast | UCLIBC_HAS_NFTW=y |
| 17:37.11 | slashbeast | if only ftw was enabled, then mdadm compilation fails, but with both, it compile and works |
| 17:37.37 | slashbeast | landley: I simply bulit 1.2.0 with this symbols and pushed it to github so scripts download the working versions of aboriginal |
| 17:37.43 | slashbeast | working/with fix. |
| 17:39.14 | slashbeast | like https://github.com/downloads/slashbeast/better-initramfs/aboriginal-1.2.0-i586_with_ftw+nftw.tar.bz2 |
| 17:40.15 | slashbeast | landley: the mail subject was 'Found the mdadm failure root case.' |
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| 17:46.58 | landley | Sigh, fighting with my email. I _really_ need to replace thunderbird. It's getting... unstable. |
| 17:48.37 | slashbeast | same here but i cant find anything better, claws-mail sucks all the way around. |
| 17:49.31 | landley | I was vaguely pondering balsa, but haven't tried it yet. |
| 17:50.33 | landley | The reason I haven't yet is "a gnome project, hosted on fedorapeople.org". |
| 17:50.49 | landley | And it's the only email client I've found that's _trying_ to be lightweight. Sheesh. |
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| 17:53.13 | ohsix | what's wrong with mutt |
| 17:53.35 | landley | ohsix: text only, last I checked. |
| 17:53.45 | ohsix | so is email |
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| 17:54.40 | landley | Hmmm, mutt-ng at least has a sidebar listing mailboxes. |
| 17:56.16 | landley | Ah yes, building balsa requires I install intltool. I'm guessing that's why I stopped last time. #toomanyprerequisites |
| 17:57.42 | ohsix | only brown people need internationalization! |
| 17:59.56 | ohsix | here's the patch for the side bar if you can't just use mutt-patched https://github.com/nedos/mutt-sidebar-patch |
| 18:05.30 | landley | slashbeast: anyway, if I can get thunderbird to cough up your email I'll add the symbols to the uclibc base config. Then we'll see what musl supports. :) |
| 18:06.12 | slashbeast | landley: I can resend it if you like |
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| 18:08.56 | landley | I've got it re-downloading. It doesn't always complete, since it takes _2_hours_ to finish checking my email. |
| 18:09.34 | slashbeast | I am old fashion and use pop3 then redistribute my .thunderbird on all my boxes via unison |
| 18:09.59 | landley | (In order to add a message to linux-kernel, it has to re-index linux-kernel. I recently trimmed it so it only has 100414 unread messages in that folder.) |
| 18:10.22 | landley | slashbeast:I believe gmail doesn't provide pop, just imap. |
| 18:10.48 | landley | With kmail I fetched email into an mbox file separately, and then told kmail to digest the mbox file. Thunderbird didn't want to do that. |
| 18:11.23 | landley | I'm tempted to go back to kmail, but A) using part of kde without the desktop sucks in massive quantities of libraries and launches strange background daemons, B) kmail got sucked into some kind of giant office suite thing you can't pick just one piece of. |
| 18:11.51 | landley | I had to track down and delete files to get it to stop constantly notiying me I had no rss feed entries, for an rss feed reader I'd never configured... |
| 18:12.09 | landley | (It kept trying, it just couldn't launch the notifier anymore after I'd deleted it. :) |
| 18:12.49 | slashbeast | landley: they do, all my mails are on gmail |
| 18:13.26 | slashbeast | kmail love to hang just 'becaue fuck you' |
| 18:13.37 | slashbeast | when your inbox is bigger than 10G you know that kmail will hate you |
| 18:14.28 | landley | THunderbird chokes more like 2G. |
| 18:14.40 | ohsix | kde good, intltool bad? |
| 18:15.41 | landley | ohsix: kde _was_ good. Then it stopped. The stopping was called "4.0". |
| 18:16.08 | ohsix | not exactly in the spirit of the query, with dependencies and all |
| 18:16.27 | landley | And I can uninstall intltool after building. That's one dependency. KDE is something like 260 last time I looked into compiling it. |
| 18:16.49 | slashbeast | I only recently dropped few old kde3 apps |
| 18:16.54 | slashbeast | like quante (ide) or k3b |
| 18:17.01 | slashbeast | in favorite of vim and growisofs. |
| 18:19.55 | slashbeast | also I noticed that new mdadm insist on using /run/mdev instaed of old /dev/.mdadm as lockfile |
| 18:20.06 | slashbeast | so the /run has become what /tmp suppose to be... always? |
| 18:20.15 | slashbeast | I don't want to live on this planet anymore. |
| 18:21.02 | ohsix | stashing files in /dev/ was one of the bodges the /run thing was to solve :] |
| 18:22.18 | slashbeast | but why not use /tmp instead? |
| 18:22.32 | ohsix | where's /tmp if / isn't mounted? |
| 18:22.56 | slashbeast | where is /run if / isnt mounted? |
| 18:23.03 | slashbeast | is always mounted, even read only |
| 18:23.17 | slashbeast | if on initramfs level, then you can mount --move the /tmp to /newroot/tmp |
| 18:23.30 | slashbeast | been there, done that. |
| 18:24.30 | ohsix | fun times, but that isn't really the problem with putting that in /tmp |
| 18:27.50 | landley | You can always hit the source code with "sed" as part of your build script. I do that on LFS a bit. |
| 18:28.26 | slashbeast | heah there is make MAP_PATH define to change it |
| 18:28.48 | slashbeast | I still dont get the Makefile big plan |
| 18:28.59 | slashbeast | I could script all of it in simple sh script |
| 18:31.13 | landley | slashbeast: at some point I need to figure out what configure, make, and install infrastructure should look like in 201X, and then implement stuff for that. |
| 18:31.28 | landley | It should include menuconfig, since that happens a lot. |
| 18:31.49 | landley | And should also include the ./configure --thing -andthing --andanotherthing usage. |
| 18:32.16 | landley | And the build part should be able to autodetect relationships between C files a bit. |
| 18:32.39 | landley | (I don't care about C++, and things like python and javascript don't have a build phase.) |
| 18:32.59 | landley | But for _C_ projects, there should be a better way to do this than autoconf and gmake. |
| 18:33.50 | landley | Heh. I wonder if I still have the source code to my old "bake" toy... http://www.os2bbs.com/download/gnu.html |
| 18:34.40 | landley | I suppose I should look into the eclipse project format, since that seems to be what lots of developers are using... |
| 18:34.52 | landley | slashbeast: the toybox build _is_ a shell script. |
| 18:34.59 | slashbeast | landley: a lot of configure --enable-FOO --enable-BAR could be done by make CFLAGS="-Dfoo -Dbar" etc |
| 18:35.11 | landley | http://landley.net/hg/toybox/file/f142928f144a/scripts/make.sh |
| 18:35.22 | landley | slashbeast: sure. |
| 18:35.24 | slashbeast | and everytime I do look at the configure file I want to kill people around me |
| 18:35.30 | landley | But people expect ./configure --blah as a user interface. |
| 18:35.34 | slashbeast | its like ancient code from 80's |
| 18:35.42 | landley | I did a "make" wrapper in toybox... which calls the shell script... because people expect the user interface. |
| 18:35.56 | slashbeast | same goes for better initramfs, the 'make' is simple wrapper |
| 18:36.04 | slashbeast | make release run scripts/release.sh |
| 18:36.06 | landley | I should start a tumblr, autoconf_is_useless |
| 18:36.30 | landley | If nothing else we could document how to do a build that way. |
| 18:36.42 | slashbeast | its like 'I saw a book "Die Autoconf" and thought "Thats my feelings!" then realized that the book is in germany' |
| 18:36.46 | slashbeast | saw it on twitter or somewhere. |
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| 18:37.27 | slashbeast | btw did you know that openbsd's sed does not support -i switch? |
| 18:37.42 | slashbeast | Write a portable script is hardocre, when it comes to pdksh, dash and so on. |
| 18:38.14 | slashbeast | or in pdksh the foo=bar; case $foo in; xxx) ;;; esac will trigger a error |
| 18:38.30 | slashbeast | because case need to match the $foo, so you need empty *) at least. |
| 18:39.17 | slashbeast | landley: the make.sh suppose to be working with bash2 or you can use some bash4 features? |
| 18:39.52 | slashbeast | TOYFILES=$( ..... | tr A-Z a-z could be replaced with just 'TOYFILES=${TOYFILES^^}' iirc. |
| 18:40.19 | slashbeast | or with awk, smash awk on everything. ;-) |
| 18:40.40 | slashbeast | sort, tr, grep and sed? Bring awk there. |
| 18:42.53 | landley | slashbeast: I'm writing something that can rebuild itself under itself. |
| 18:43.04 | landley | I'm really targeting toysh, I just haven't written it yet. :) |
| 18:43.18 | landley | I'm not _hugely_ concerned about divergence in implementations that happened more than 20 years ago. |
| 18:43.51 | landley | Smart phones are inevitably going to sweep the field. Caring about PC stuff is like caring about minicomputer stuff back in the 80's. |
| 18:44.01 | landley | Unless it gets ported to the new thing, it's legacy. |
| 18:44.27 | landley | I need to write an awk. That's gonna be fun. |
| 18:44.34 | landley | But I need to do sed first, since I already did that one. |
| 18:44.53 | landley | And I need to do dc/bc which are surprisingly complicated. (For loops? In a calculator?) |
| 18:45.17 | landley | I might get next week off, but if so linux/Documentation will probably eat most of it... |
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| 20:07.13 | landley | "Welcome to UK bribery act training". |
| 20:07.23 | landley | Ok, at some point the human resources department just started trolling us. |
| 20:07.26 | landley | I'm not quite sure when it was. |
| 20:07.35 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:08.40 | landley | The mandatory export control compliance training was pushing it. |
| 20:09.20 | landley | And on thursday: patent training. |
| 20:10.24 | prpplague | landley: did they ask you to swap out your swinglines for a cheaper brand? |
| 20:11.36 | landley | Not that I noticed. |
| 20:11.58 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:12.39 | landley | Nor do I get staticed by a doorknob on the way in to work each morning, but there's more than one entrance. |
| 20:14.39 | prpplague | HA |
| 20:14.50 | prpplague | landley: i love that movie |
| 20:15.03 | prpplague | when i get all upset with TI i watch that |
| 20:23.22 | landley | I've mostly arranged my career to not sympathize too much with dilbert. But this year... |
| 20:30.52 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:32.31 | prpplague | landley: well when you get as old as we are, lots of time it is about $$ and talk the oddities as a big of humor that you can work into your next presentation , or laugh it of with Fade when talking about Dalek comparisons..... |
| 20:32.49 | prpplague | s/big/bit |
| 20:34.59 | landley | Eh. Up until now I was never really in it for the money. |
| 20:35.07 | landley | And being in it for the money pretty much means I can't do my job right. |
| 20:35.28 | landley | If I don't care about the engineering, how am I supposed to make good technical decisions? |
| 20:36.41 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 20:37.30 | prpplague | landley: i'm a hooker plan and simple |
| 20:37.39 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:38.49 | prpplague | starting decent for landing in san diego |
| 20:38.52 | prpplague | laters |
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| 21:15.04 | landley | slashbeast: yay, dug up your message. Ok, I can fix that, thanks. I plan to cut another release when 3.6 comes out. |
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