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| 18:48.44 | landley | Earlier this week I decompressed from work by impelementing md5sum in toybox. |
| 18:48.49 | landley | I think that officially makes me weird. |
| 18:53.52 | sjhill | nope |
| 18:54.04 | sjhill | totally makes sense |
| 18:54.12 | sjhill | day job is down in the depths of kernel code |
| 18:54.35 | sjhill | for enjoyment i work with application code....that has a debugger!!!! |
| 18:54.42 | prpplague | landley: not at all |
| 18:55.01 | sjhill | where crashing is just a segfault instead of power cycle |
| 18:55.02 | chouimat | sound perfectly normal to me |
| 18:55.09 | chouimat | sjhill: hehe |
| 18:55.40 | sjhill | prpplague: TI fired me |
| 18:55.46 | sjhill | prpplague: just kidding |
| 18:56.00 | prpplague | sjhill: i just heard on tuesday |
| 18:56.16 | prpplague | sjhill: needless to say, they are keeping a lot of things secret lately |
| 18:56.18 | sjhill | prpplague: i didn't have the time anymore and what he had me doing just wasn't my skillset |
| 18:56.32 | sjhill | prpplague: so....you should be looking for a new contract |
| 18:56.48 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, mine is up in two weeks |
| 18:56.51 | landley | I gave my two weeks notice on monday. |
| 18:56.52 | sjhill | really? |
| 18:56.55 | sjhill | sheesh |
| 18:56.57 | sjhill | i was just kdding |
| 18:57.08 | prpplague | sjhill: they have made no move to renew it |
| 18:57.12 | prpplague | landley: doh |
| 18:57.20 | sjhill | i'm going to quietly step away so things don't get weirder |
| 18:57.31 | landley | I've already had two recruiters ping me with various things (spend 3 months in lovely boise, idaho. Do training sessions in bangalore!) |
| 18:57.39 | landley | But really, I want to spend some time catching up on open source. |
| 18:57.51 | landley | Spent a year working on the same darn box that's no closer to shipping than when I arrived. |
| 18:58.00 | landley | And which is really a hardware implementation of "google hangout" anyway. |
| 18:58.14 | landley | The money's nice, but it's not what I want to do with my life. |
| 18:58.33 | landley | sjhill: things are quite capable of getting weirder in your absence. |
| 18:58.44 | landley | We can have the weird neatly packaged and ready for your return. |
| 18:58.49 | sjhill | sweet! |
| 18:59.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:59.23 | landley | I miss the consulting "work X months, take X months off" thing. No matter how inane the job got, there was a light at the end of the tunnel. |
| 18:59.34 | chouimat | landley: hehehe |
| 18:59.34 | prpplague | landley: indeed |
| 18:59.40 | landley | Full time permanent position sitting in a cubicle ground me down. |
| 18:59.48 | sjhill | actually i do need to step away before my two (soon to be three) year old disassembles something again |
| 19:00.03 | landley | First 6 months of this gig I got up at 5am and did a few hours of open source development before heading in to work. But I gradually lost the energy to do that as time went on... |
| 19:00.05 | sjhill | did i mention i buy superglue in bulk? |
| 19:00.09 | sjhill | but don't do that |
| 19:00.24 | sjhill | i bought a 12 pack and emailed superglue corp. that the tubes were not good |
| 19:00.34 | sjhill | apparently it is only good for 1 year, which i didn't know |
| 19:00.37 | landley | (Full time permanent position still sounds great, but... not this one.) |
| 19:00.54 | landley | Polycyanoacrylate. |
| 19:00.57 | sjhill | you can extend superglue's life by putting it in a ziplock bag and put it in the refrigerator |
| 19:01.23 | landley | Polly wanna cyanoacrylate. |
| 19:01.36 | landley | It just sounds SO HEALTHY. |
| 19:01.36 | sjhill | Polly wanna be solid in 15 minutes? |
| 19:02.04 | sjhill | bbl....peace |
| 19:05.37 | landley | slashbeast: http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git;a=commitdiff;h=800179c9b8a1e796e441674776d11cd4c05d61d7 |
| 19:33.25 | slashbeast | landley: a security enhanced pushed to kernel, the hell just frozen |
| 19:34.17 | landley | Nah, they do stuff all the time. |
| 19:34.32 | landley | But "this is an issue that should be addressed" and "you must apply my fix to the issue" are two different things. |
| 19:34.39 | landley | I note that your mount flag suggestion isn't what they did. |
| 19:34.44 | slashbeast | such thingy was in grsecurity for ages |
| 19:35.19 | landley | If the security nuts go off to their own corner, the rest of the world ignores them. Same with the embedded guys who fork off of 2.6.37 and think that means something. |
| 19:35.29 | slashbeast | grsecurity already has 'follow symlinks if user match' group, so if I put a user in special group (not primary group) then he/she may not use other user's symlinks unless owner=root |
| 19:36.12 | landley | slashbeast: and the 3.6 kernel does not have a magic group. The 3.6 kernel has a consistent rule that applies equally to everybody except root. |
| 19:36.24 | slashbeast | didnt they recently announced a new group/task force? to work on security in linux? |
| 19:36.32 | slashbeast | and as far as I know they are not even interested to work with grsecurity. |
| 19:36.36 | landley | If by "recently" you mean 2004, then yes. |
| 19:36.55 | slashbeast | landley: from what I understand the symlink protection work *only* in sticky dirs |
| 19:37.01 | slashbeast | so /tmp and /var/tmp only in most usecases |
| 19:37.04 | landley | Unless you're talking about the Linux Foundation's thrashing du jour in the maemo/meego/yocto/tizen/still_not_android vein. |
| 19:37.19 | slashbeast | nope, really recently |
| 19:37.20 | landley | slashbeast: you can put the sticky bit on anything you want. |
| 19:37.21 | slashbeast | greping |
| 19:37.59 | slashbeast | I can't ensure that user's public web dirs will have sticky on any dir so putting nginx in the special group is the solution |
| 19:38.29 | landley | slashbeast: is nginx an app, a user, a distribution, or something else? |
| 19:38.54 | landley | And you can't ensure a user won't chmod a binary 777. No security policy prevents a user from being stupid with their own data. |
| 19:38.56 | slashbeast | landley: nginx is an process |
| 19:39.08 | slashbeast | as ervice, in fact |
| 19:39.11 | slashbeast | landley: http://www.openwall.com/lists/kernel-hardening/2012/09/24/1 |
| 19:39.26 | landley | slashbeast: vanilla linux does not have a magic group, and I'm guessing never will, so have fun in your corner. I'll be over here. |
| 19:40.06 | landley | slashbeast: yeah, I heard about that. |
| 19:40.23 | slashbeast | you are mad because I choosen to patch the kernel with serious security fixes and not sticks to mainline what may in like 1000 years get a similar-but-not-really feature? |
| 19:40.29 | prpplague | sjhill: you've seen all the press releases lately about TI? |
| 19:40.45 | landley | At an existing linux security summit, somebody proposed using an existing kernel-hardening mailing list for a group they were forming. |
| 19:40.50 | landley | Oh yeah, brand new, nobody was doing this before... |
| 19:40.58 | landley | I'm not mad. |
| 19:41.05 | landley | You're confusing anger and indifference. |
| 19:41.14 | landley | I think that what you're doing is profoundly uninteresting. |
| 19:41.26 | slashbeast | fair enough |
| 19:41.36 | landley | I'm serious about the "have fun with it". I'm glad it works for you. |
| 19:41.42 | landley | I never expect it to scale beyond its existing userbase. |
| 19:42.22 | landley | I have plenty of "this works for me, nobody else will ever care" hacks. I post them publically. |
| 19:42.46 | landley | Occasionally somebody will dig one up 5 years later and go "huh". It's always nice when that happens. |
| 19:43.00 | landley | Sometimes it brings the total number of users of the thing up into the high single digits. |
| 19:43.28 | landley | I've also done a lot of "don't ask questions, post errors" things. |
| 19:44.22 | landley | Random example, go to http://lwn.net/2002/0117/kernel.php3 and search for "blueberry". |
| 19:44.57 | landley | Back when the kernel build was always in V=1 mode, I did a blueberry.py filter you could use to trim down the compiler spew so you could actually see the warnings. |
| 19:45.22 | landley | The kernel guys decided that was a good idea and did their own implementation, totally discarding my code. This is fairly normal. |
| 19:46.26 | landley | So when I see an upstream fix that makes 80% of the problem go away, I have to wonder how much I care about the remaining chunk and whether or not I can do a smaller fix on top leveraging what they did. |
| 19:47.05 | slashbeast | understandable |
| 19:47.07 | landley | (Yanking all the defconfigs and making them kconfig blobs took about half the window out of miniconfig's sails. I still prefer my approach, but don't expect anybody else to care.) |
| 19:47.49 | slashbeast | I saw your miniconfig patch to Documentation/ that never make it |
| 19:47.52 | slashbeast | thats kinda suks |
| 19:47.58 | landley | My approach still has several advantages and is a small delta. I never bothered to write a worthwhile generator. (The shell script is hideous.) |
| 20:06.48 | sjhill | prpplague: i haven't been following TI press releases. i thought i remember something about their omap division struggling at one time? *shrug* |
| 20:07.55 | prpplague | http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/28962-texas-instruments-omap-5-slips-to-2013 |
| 20:08.05 | prpplague | http://www.minyanville.com/trading-and-investing/stocks/articles/upgrades-downgrades-initiations-stock-market-analyst/10/3/2012/id/44637 |
| 20:08.23 | prpplague | http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-09-26/markets/34092164_1_omap-smartphones-kindle-fire |
| 20:10.05 | sjhill | prpplague: "with OMAP 4460 can reach over 1.5GHz" .... only in u-boot. you sure as hell can't find a stable kernel to do it |
| 20:10.56 | prpplague | hehe, not in the general public |
| 20:11.17 | prpplague | and not without some sort of thermal profiling with some sort of heatsink |
| 20:13.16 | chouimat | prpplague: I like big fans :) |
| 20:15.02 | landley | Samsung's making iphone, qualcomm's doing half the android chipsets and samsung seems to be doing the other half. |
| 20:15.07 | landley | Not a whole lotta TI in there, that I noticed. |
| 20:15.25 | landley | Then again maybe they've got raspberry pi? I forget who did that. |
| 20:15.47 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 20:15.51 | prpplague | landley: broadcom |
| 20:16.02 | prpplague | landley: but TI has a lot more than just cell phones |
| 20:16.04 | landley | Did http://hdfpga.blogspot.com/2010/04/ti-netra-dm8168.html ever amount to anything? THat's what we're using at work... |
| 20:16.10 | prpplague | landley: the press releases were stupidly done |
| 20:16.20 | landley | prpplague: considering that smartphones are replacing the PC, "just cell pones" is a bit of an understatement. |
| 20:17.03 | prpplague | landley: the press release makes you think that they stopping manufacturering of all the omap SoC's |
| 20:17.07 | prpplague | landley: they are no |
| 20:17.08 | prpplague | not |
| 20:17.30 | prpplague | landley: it just means that they are not going to specifically design the socs in the future specifically for cell phones |
| 20:18.19 | SpeedEvil | arguably the next trend in cellphone CPUs will be to bring more of the phone silicon IP onto the SOC |
| 20:18.19 | prpplague | landley: yea the netra is out and being used heavily in industrial applications |
| 20:18.27 | prpplague | landley: but a who different area of the company |
| 20:18.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 20:18.35 | SpeedEvil | needless to say, this is expensive |
| 20:19.02 | prpplague | indeed |
| 20:19.05 | SpeedEvil | and utterly wasted if your device isn't a phone |
| 20:19.16 | landley | Where are the big economies of scale? |
| 20:19.27 | landley | PC/laptop/cloud is still big, but not really growing. |
| 20:19.31 | landley | Phones are obvious. |
| 20:19.46 | landley | Set top boxes seem reasonably locked up with all the powerpc stuff (and/or whatever the wii is doing). |
| 20:19.48 | SpeedEvil | connected appliances. |
| 20:19.55 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 20:20.02 | landley | SpeedEvil: my refrigerator really doesn't need internet access. |
| 20:20.15 | landley | That's like the "video phones" of yore. Turns out people didn't really want that. |
| 20:20.19 | landley | Even when you can do it in software, it's not a big deal. |
| 20:20.25 | SpeedEvil | I dunno. |
| 20:20.39 | chouimat | that could be nice ... the fridge order the stuff when it get pass the date ... |
| 20:20.46 | prpplague | landley: IVI , thinclients, and industrial are where TI is going to be focused |
| 20:20.46 | landley | My television _has_ internet access: it's got netflix. |
| 20:20.57 | landley | What's IVI? |
| 20:21.04 | SpeedEvil | if my fridge could be 40% cheaper to run by only using powers when the power company wants it to... |
| 20:21.09 | chouimat | in vehicule intertaiment |
| 20:21.16 | sjhill | Intraveinious Internet |
| 20:21.18 | sjhill | oh |
| 20:21.19 | landley | Ah right. |
| 20:21.23 | sjhill | nope, still like mine better |
| 20:21.25 | landley | The place that sh4 still exists. :) |
| 20:21.28 | chouimat | sjhill: hehe |
| 20:22.14 | SpeedEvil | someone needs to make the processors for the new omnipresent surveillance drones. |
| 20:22.16 | landley | Self-driving cars would be a game changer. THey still haven't quite cooked yet, and the regulatory hurdles are nuts. |
| 20:22.18 | sjhill | you couldn't pay me to work on another SuperH platform |
| 20:22.26 | chouimat | ok this driver is really starting to piss me off ... the code make my eyes bleed |
| 20:22.45 | landley | Add in peak oil and battery advances and all that and cars are one of those "big change coming, no idea _when_ or what it'll look like" things. |
| 20:23.00 | landley | sjhill: renesas, the asshole company. |
| 20:23.09 | landley | Aboriginal has an sh4 target in _spite_ of those guys. |
| 20:23.13 | SpeedEvil | something like 'skytran' could be awesome. |
| 20:23.15 | landley | It seems to annoy them. |
| 20:23.26 | chouimat | hehe |
| 20:23.42 | landley | I'm thinking google's self driving cars and car2go teaming up might form something interesting, but until it happens... |
| 20:23.51 | SpeedEvil | packet switched single person maglev cars running on streetlight pole mounted tracks |
| 20:24.05 | landley | An app on your phone where you request transport from point A to point B, and don't really care about the details. That could be cool. |
| 20:24.19 | landley | SpeedEvil: never happen, too much infrastructure needs to be installed before it would matter. |
| 20:24.23 | SpeedEvil | massive adoption needed first |
| 20:24.27 | SpeedEvil | landley: true |
| 20:24.51 | chouimat | landley: I don't know. I'm old school here so I will pick a) public transportation or b) a bicycle |
| 20:24.53 | landley | The google street view cars and car to go are both leveraging the infrastructure that's there. |
| 20:24.54 | SpeedEvil | perhaps the starting point is closely coupled road trains of cars |
| 20:25.20 | landley | chouimat: I live within easy walking distance of a grocery store, but still need the car to pick up heavy 24-packs of beverages. |
| 20:25.34 | SpeedEvil | I get my groceries delivered |
| 20:25.41 | landley | SpeedEvil: you're assuming volume before you have volume. |
| 20:25.47 | SpeedEvil | most people can in the UK. |
| 20:25.58 | chouimat | walking distance of the grocery store too ... half hour walk :) |
| 20:26.13 | SpeedEvil | the ease of that goes with the population density cubed or something. |
| 20:26.30 | landley | SpeedEvil: the UK is smaller than the state of California. |
| 20:26.46 | landley | And that includes Scotland, Wales, and northern ireland. |
| 20:26.52 | SpeedEvil | indeed. |
| 20:26.56 | SpeedEvil | see above |
| 20:26.58 | landley | We have scalability issues you don't. |
| 20:27.22 | SpeedEvil | 'population density cubed' |
| 20:27.48 | SpeedEvil | if a van can do 15-20 deliveries a day, it can work. |
| 20:28.11 | SpeedEvil | you don't need to spread the population out very far till t doesn't |
| 20:28.33 | SpeedEvil | though better integration of delivery companies could do that |
| 20:29.18 | landley | You guys used to have mail service 7 times a day, not our fault you keep electing tories to dismantle your infrastructure because the fact it actually works contradicts their worldview. |
| 20:29.55 | SpeedEvil | :-( |
| 20:30.02 | chouimat | hehehehe |
| 20:30.47 | SpeedEvil | needs to be more actual evidence used, not policymaking on the basis of prejudice |
| 20:31.40 | SpeedEvil | latest wheeze is to provide cover for the upcoming massive shrink in the disability benefits by portraying the disabled as fraudsters. |
| 20:31.42 | landley | You have an atheist party? |
| 20:31.54 | landley | I know you have a looney party and a pirate party. |
| 20:31.58 | landley | I want a pirate party. |
| 20:32.00 | SpeedEvil | despite them having measured fraud at .5% |
| 20:32.06 | SpeedEvil | weeeeel. |
| 20:32.13 | landley | Here they're using fraud as a basis for voter suppression. |
| 20:32.24 | SpeedEvil | from the us perspective, all parties are atheist |
| 20:32.41 | landley | There wasn't enough fraud so the GOP hired companies to _perpetrate_ voter registration fraud, and then used that as the reason they needed to pass all this new jim crow stuff. |
| 20:32.46 | landley | It would be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing. |
| 20:32.52 | SpeedEvil | joy. |
| 20:33.06 | landley | SpeedEvil: I'm an agnostic missionary. My job is to confuse the devout. |
| 20:33.13 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
| 20:33.30 | chouimat | :) |
| 20:33.34 | landley | (And atheism is a religion the way zero is a number. It's a firm belief in the absence of evidence.) |
| 20:33.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm of the view that consciousness is an illusion of dirty bags of water. |
| 20:34.13 | landley | Meh. I'm here, that I have first hand observational evidence of. |
| 20:34.32 | landley | Dismissing your own experience as unreproducible is taking things a bit far. |
| 20:34.57 | chouimat | is a devout nondaretempist |
| 20:35.31 | SpeedEvil | I don't dismiss it. I just don't believe my 'I' ness is in any way more special than the turbulent flow of rivers. |
| 20:35.48 | landley | There is of course the fun recurring theme of retroactive reincarnation. |
| 20:35.59 | chouimat | landley: ouch |
| 20:36.01 | SpeedEvil | belief differs from feelings though. |
| 20:36.30 | landley | Eh, shows up all over the place, from http://www.lettersofnote.com/2012/10/help-from-heinlein.html to http://www.galactanet.com/oneoff/theegg_mod.html |
| 20:37.19 | landley | Everybody keeps reinventing the idea that reincarnation doesn't actually _have_ to happen in the future, and if you take it to its logical conclusion there's no need for more than one actual person. |
| 20:37.28 | landley | But when you do come up with it... so what? |
| 20:38.21 | landley | I mean yeah, fun answer to that theological "what's the downside of belief in santa claus, thor, or whoever I'm promoting this week". Which is "if you wind up back here you waste your life, over and over." |
| 20:38.44 | landley | But there's no point prostletyzing. Either it's what happens or it isn't. Believe doesn't change whether or not something's true. |
| 20:38.52 | landley | s/believe/belief/ |
| 20:39.20 | SpeedEvil | unless there is someone up there, who doesn't like nonbelievers. |
| 20:39.21 | *** join/#edev gustavoz (~gustavoz@host253.190-226-178.telecom.net.ar) |
| 20:39.33 | landley | In fact, anything that _does_ require convincing other people in order to sustain it is a bit dodgy. ("If I can't convince you my heaven exists, I may not get in!" Ummm... right.) |
| 20:39.49 | landley | SpeedEvil: sure. Cthulu saves, in case he's hungry later. |
| 20:39.54 | SpeedEvil | :-) |
| 20:40.07 | landley | http://rubbersuitstudios.com/ptcct.htm |
| 20:40.12 | SpeedEvil | oooh. |
| 20:40.35 | SpeedEvil | spots /. post on F2Fs by Samsung. |
| 20:40.45 | chouimat | landley: cool |
| 20:41.02 | landley | SpeedEvil: yeah, there was an lwn.net thing on that earlier today. |
| 20:41.11 | landley | You should subscribe to lwn's twitter feed, it's useful. :) |
| 20:41.22 | SpeedEvil | now, all we need is for someone to make it implementabke on emmcs and sds by providing punch through access. |
| 20:41.33 | landley | SpeedEvil: no, no we don't. |
| 20:41.44 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 20:42.06 | landley | chouimat: nah, that's not the fun one. http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=211 and http://www.homeonthestrange.com/view.php?ID=212 are far more fun. |
| 20:42.51 | landley | SpeedEvil: adding more stuff to emacs strikes me as dangerous. |
| 20:43.04 | landley | You are aware that when things collapse into a black hole it causes a gamma ray burst as the event horizon forms, right? |
| 20:43.07 | SpeedEvil | embedded multimedia cards |
| 20:43.07 | landley | Do you want to risk it? |
| 20:43.19 | landley | Ah. Thought that was a typo, nevermind then. |
| 20:43.24 | SpeedEvil | landley: actually, that isn't inherent |
| 20:43.40 | SpeedEvil | landley: it does for some sorts of collapse |
| 20:44.02 | chouimat | landley: lol |
| 20:44.06 | landley | Saying you can form an event horizon without a gamma ray burst is like saying you can break the sound barrier without a sonic boom. |
| 20:44.09 | landley | I'll believe it when I see it. |
| 20:44.24 | SpeedEvil | landley: the two are unrelated |
| 20:44.34 | landley | shrugs. |
| 20:44.46 | SpeedEvil | the gamma burst is a tertiary or quaternary phenomenon. |
| 20:44.57 | landley | I don't claim to be an expert here, I'll happily defer to you here. |
| 20:45.01 | SpeedEvil | and relies on stuff being just right. |
| 20:45.14 | SpeedEvil | at least according to my inderstadimg. |
| 20:45.57 | SpeedEvil | this is another annoying field that's only really solvable by massive amounts of computation |
| 20:46.39 | landley | SpeedEvil: If all you have is a computer cluster, everything looks like a weather simulation. |
| 20:47.14 | landley | I've seen an awful lot of models retrofitted to phenomena, which failed to ever make a single prediction that later turned out to be true. |
| 20:47.29 | SpeedEvil | string theory. |
| 20:47.49 | landley | String theory's worse than that, it's a bucket of variables you can tune to make it say just about anything. |
| 20:47.52 | SpeedEvil | many successful career in it, and not one physical prediction her |
| 20:47.57 | SpeedEvil | yet |
| 20:48.02 | SpeedEvil | quite. |
| 20:48.12 | SpeedEvil | curve fitting is not truth. |
| 20:49.33 | chouimat | ok time to go home |
| 20:52.18 | landley | http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/08/06/nobody_knows_where_economic_growth_comes_from.html |
| 20:53.13 | landley | He actually a fun series on TFP: |
| 20:53.14 | landley | http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/10/03/patents_aren_t_innovation.html |
| 20:53.34 | landley | http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/10/02/the_scourge_of_garbage_in_garbage_out_research_on_innovation.html |
| 20:54.00 | landley | Ah, here we go, that's the link I was looking for: http://noahpinionblog.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-perils-of-phlogistonomics.html |
| 21:31.19 | SpeedEvil | sighs. |
| 21:31.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm not quite at the 'there should be no patents' stage. |
| 21:31.55 | SpeedEvil | but approaching it. |
| 21:32.16 | *** join/#edev boru (~boru@unaffiliated/boru) |
| 21:40.23 | landley | I'm years past that. |
| 21:40.48 | landley | I'm actually getting to the point where the entire IP system needs to be reset. |
| 21:41.25 | landley | I'm not longer sure I'm in favor of _copyright_. |
| 21:41.40 | landley | And I think trademark's a good idea but the implementation's completely broken. |
| 21:41.49 | SpeedEvil | copyright in its original us terms - perhaps. |
| 21:42.00 | SpeedEvil | 15 years is not unreasonable. |
| 21:42.13 | landley | Yeah, I could see that. |
| 21:42.20 | SpeedEvil | 150 years, ... |
| 21:42.40 | SpeedEvil | (70years plus life of a young author) |
| 21:42.41 | landley | When Lex Luthor was sentence to "life plus 25" in superman 2, it was a _joke_. |
| 21:43.16 | landley | Before Ronald Regan that was an _insanely_ punitive sentence, immediate laugh line from the audience. |
| 21:43.44 | SpeedEvil | if you want to have money for your inheritors, put it in a trust fund. |
| 21:43.54 | SpeedEvil | don't blow it on coke and hookers, |