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| 18:12.39 | phlyback | anyone here working on the linux on the rca streaming media player |
| 18:12.45 | phlyback | the whatever 771 |
| 18:12.55 | phlyback | I was wondering what the chances are for the latest model the 871 |
| 18:13.32 | prpplague | the 871 is basically the same as the 771, just with the ethernet already installed, iirc |
| 18:13.42 | phlyback | no this doesn't have ether |
| 18:13.44 | phlyback | it's wireless only |
| 18:13.56 | phlyback | $29 walmart black friday I should have got 2 |
| 18:14.59 | phlyback | I see what looks to be a serial or jtag header and probably a ether or usb header |
| 18:15.07 | phlyback | but not going to open it to find ut |
| 18:18.43 | prpplague | phlyback: take some pictures |
| 18:19.34 | phlyback | like I said I dont' want to take it apart |
| 18:19.36 | phlyback | it's new |
| 18:19.50 | phlyback | mabye I will see though if I can do it without causing warrenty headache |
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| 18:46.12 | _av500_ | the 771 had a usb you can soldr |
| 18:46.14 | _av500_ | solder |
| 18:46.19 | _av500_ | guess the new one has that too |
| 19:01.23 | landley | it would be so nice if we could get a generic hdmi chip with an open source driver. |
| 19:01.39 | landley | Just something we could use as a darn framebuffer. |
| 19:01.59 | landley | With that stupid "secure output" thing hardwired off. |
| 19:02.33 | _av500_ | yeah |
| 19:02.43 | _av500_ | but even HDMI itself is a 5k NDA |
| 19:02.54 | landley | When do the patents expire? |
| 19:03.00 | phlyback | probably never |
| 19:03.09 | _av500_ | displayport is uspposed to fix that |
| 19:03.18 | phlyback | they got senator dicks in their mouth |
| 19:03.19 | _av500_ | afaik, its royalty free |
| 19:03.25 | phlyback | the riaa/mpaa |
| 19:03.36 | _av500_ | and SoCs and displays are getting DP support |
| 19:03.41 | phlyback | good :) |
| 19:04.07 | _av500_ | landley: there are open source drivers for hdmi chips |
| 19:04.16 | _av500_ | just buying the chips is the issue |
| 19:08.43 | roxfan | landley: not sure if that's what you need but bunnie did an hdmi video overlay thing |
| 19:10.10 | landley | roxfan: I want cheap linux boxes to be able to use HDMI video output trivially. |
| 19:10.14 | landley | I know raspberry pi managed it. |
| 19:10.36 | landley | USB3->hdmi converters that linux can recognize and slap a framebuffer on with the vanilla kernel are important too. |
| 19:10.46 | roxfan | it's probably trivial to convert it to a plain video out now that's the master key is public |
| 19:11.20 | landley | roxfan: technically easy, yes. Without decss levels of everybody afraid to ship it: no. |
| 19:11.57 | landley | None of these consortia are about reducing piracy in the slightest, they're about cornering the market and extracting per-unit rents from all potential competitors. |
| 19:12.16 | landley | Plus various market segmentation crap like region coding. |
| 19:13.36 | landley | Until you've got a solution to "play it in a dark quiet room, point a flip cam at the output, upload to pirate bay", the rest is noise. |
| 19:14.10 | _av500_ | landley: rpi has hdmi inside the SoC |
| 19:14.13 | _av500_ | same as e.g. omap4 |
| 19:14.14 | landley | Human-readable input is analog and unencrypted. This is a fairly fundamental design issue that gives their "solutions" conceptual problems. |
| 19:14.30 | landley | av500: and can the vanilla linux kernel actually use that thing without a binary blob? |
| 19:14.36 | _av500_ | omap4 yes |
| 19:14.39 | _av500_ | there is no blob |
| 19:14.45 | landley | cool. |
| 19:14.56 | phlyback | I really should invest in some plastic/rubber screwdrivers |
| 19:14.57 | _av500_ | the hdmi TRM is not public, but the source code is |
| 19:15.05 | _av500_ | phlyback: rubber??? |
| 19:15.09 | phlyback | hard rubber |
| 19:15.10 | landley | Heh. |
| 19:15.19 | _av500_ | want to flog the stuff? |
| 19:15.24 | phlyback | flog? |
| 19:15.47 | phlyback | oh whip hahaha |
| 19:15.57 | phlyback | no I mean for stuff I might want to open to take pics without voiding warrenty |
| 19:15.58 | _av500_ | To beat severely with a whip or rod |
| 19:16.15 | landley | Technically, somebody could take a raspberry pi, stick a software network interface on the power end of it exporting a VNC connection, and make a usb->hdmi converter that way. |
| 19:16.19 | _av500_ | phlyback: and somebody will look if you scratched the screw heads? |
| 19:16.20 | landley | Probably have trobule with fullscreen video, though. |
| 19:16.24 | phlyback | plastic/rubber are also good for adjustemtns of pots on hv devices |
| 19:16.30 | phlyback | _av500_, some might |
| 19:16.37 | phlyback | apple has a chemical sensor that goes off if it gets wet |
| 19:16.37 | _av500_ | phlyback: like your CRT TV? |
| 19:16.52 | _av500_ | landley: yes, but rpi has only usb2 |
| 19:17.00 | _av500_ | but yes |
| 19:17.00 | phlyback | one of the few things I agree with appHOLE on |
| 19:17.08 | landley | next iteration then. |
| 19:17.15 | phlyback | _av500_, yeah |
| 19:17.21 | phlyback | how do you think I got the nick :P |
| 19:17.23 | landley | Eh, usb2 can do gigabit ethernet... |
| 19:17.25 | _av500_ | phlyback: at walmart, your return goes onto the shelf immediately |
| 19:17.34 | _av500_ | landley: yes |
| 19:17.41 | _av500_ | but in real life you get 20MB/s |
| 19:17.52 | _av500_ | thats 160mbit/s so good for really HD video |
| 19:18.00 | _av500_ | but not for uncompressed |
| 19:18.12 | phlyback | well I don't return shit I think I broke or abused |
| 19:18.15 | landley | I have no idea how (if) vnc handles video. |
| 19:18.16 | phlyback | even if I lost $$$$$ |
| 19:18.21 | phlyback | I rather be able to sleep at night |
| 19:18.39 | _av500_ | landley: i dont think so |
| 19:18.46 | phlyback | but on the flip side it's a shame if they kill your warrenty because you opened it to check something |
| 19:18.55 | phlyback | espically if you tampered with nothing and did it all esd free |
| 19:19.00 | _av500_ | landley: these days you have stuff like MiraCast aka wifi display |
| 19:19.11 | _av500_ | that h264 encodes and decodes on the other end |
| 19:19.29 | phlyback | thx guys for the info btw |
| 19:19.32 | _av500_ | phlyback: I have yet to esd kill anything |
| 19:19.34 | phlyback | back to silent running |
| 19:19.47 | _av500_ | fwiw, ESD was invented by 3M to sell plastic bags |
| 19:20.21 | landley | av500: that's gonna work great in an office with 30 people. |
| 19:20.39 | _av500_ | yes |
| 19:20.44 | _av500_ | in an office, use a cable |
| 19:21.00 | landley | Or just start with the cable. |
| 19:21.10 | _av500_ | landley: there is nice 60GHz wifi |
| 19:21.16 | _av500_ | basically its wireless PCIe |
| 19:21.24 | _av500_ | stick the GPU on the other end |
| 19:22.13 | landley | av500: I'll believe they've solve the dropouts problem when I see it. |
| 19:22.40 | _av500_ | landley: 60ghz is not for long range |
| 19:22.45 | landley | Something bluetoothy where they can ignore anything more than 10 feet away is one thing... |
| 19:22.47 | landley | ok. |
| 19:22.51 | _av500_ | yu plop your notebook on your desk and your screen comes alive |
| 19:22.55 | _av500_ | no connection |
| 19:23.03 | landley | av500 the USB connection is to power the phone. |
| 19:23.15 | _av500_ | wireless charging :) |
| 19:23.27 | landley | Inductive charging's never taken off because the last guy who really understood it died many moons ago. |
| 19:23.44 | _av500_ | its in new phones :) |
| 19:23.44 | landley | We really suck at reverse engineering things Tesla did. |
| 19:23.55 | _av500_ | apple will "invent" it soon |
| 19:23.56 | landley | Good luck with that. I'll continue to believe it when I see it. |
| 19:24.08 | _av500_ | :) |
| 19:24.22 | landley | Apple's wobbling pretty badly since Jobs left. The executive infighting's not quite to microsoft levels but it's unhealthy. |
| 19:24.46 | landley | I thought they'd get another 10 years of coasting like last time, but it's starting to look more like 5-7. |
| 19:24.52 | _av500_ | landley: well, they can close down shop and still survive for 200ys on cash :) |
| 19:24.54 | landley | Oh well, they may always surprise me. |
| 19:25.14 | landley | av500: if you stop paying your guys it's easy to survive on a fixed income. It never works out that way. |
| 19:25.39 | landley | I remember Microsoft had something like $70 billion in cash a few years ago. |
| 19:26.25 | landley | Publicly traded companies are vulnerable to shareholders insisting they yield "excess profits" back to the owners. Some legal precent from a lawsuit Henry Ford lost. |
| 19:27.39 | SpeedEvil | extrapolate out a few years, take account of mass production, and they can give everyone on the planet a free iPhone 10. |
| 19:30.08 | landley | SpeedEvil: Cory Doctorow's book "Little Brother" was set in a near-future where Microsoft had handed out its latest Xbox iteration for free. |
| 19:30.32 | SpeedEvil | hmm. not read it. |
| 19:30.33 | landley | Again, it keeps not happening. |
| 19:31.33 | landley | The japanese created disposable cell phones back in the 90's. Nobody cared. |
| 19:32.03 | landley | I suspect we have to wait for the Moore's Law s-curve to flatten out before that becomes appealing. |
| 19:32.04 | SpeedEvil | I do wonder what the real subsidy numbers are for the nexus 4. is it solely Google buying a million units for cash up front, and getting monster discounts? |
| 19:32.21 | landley | That would do a huge amount to get the price down. |
| 19:32.35 | SpeedEvil | they've got the cash. |
| 19:32.39 | landley | They do. |
| 19:32.46 | SpeedEvil | doing it just costs interest. |
| 19:32.50 | landley | And $200 million is pocket change to Google. |
| 19:32.56 | SpeedEvil | which is nearly zero anyway |
| 19:34.02 | SpeedEvil | Moore's law can be sort of sidestepped for a while if the cost of chips can be brought down at the same time '3d' of some form becomes viabklr. |
| 19:34.36 | SpeedEvil | so you have 4096 core 300MHz low power processors |
| 19:35.40 | SpeedEvil | it's what, 20 years before if you extrapolate Moore out, you hit one So atom per feature length. |
| 19:37.09 | landley | SpeedEvil: Moore's Law went from vertical to horizontal scaling almost a decade ago. |
| 19:37.46 | landley | The pentium 4 was the poster child for following the old path off a cliff. |
| 19:38.28 | landley | Hyper-threading, the pentium M, and the core duo were the new path. |
| 19:38.52 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 19:39.02 | landley | SpeedEvil: one atom per feature isn't a limit if you can layer the chips in 3D. The problem is heat. |
| 19:39.24 | landley | Heat dissipation's been the major limiting factor for a decade now. |
| 19:39.48 | SpeedEvil | and yes. but if you can dramatically lower cost, and trade off speed for much lower power, you can sort of side step that. |
| 19:40.11 | landley | The big push into 3D is because it's an ebarassingly parallelizeable problem space. |
| 19:40.18 | SpeedEvil | indeed. |
| 19:40.40 | landley | Intel did 1024 processors on a die years ago (2005? I forget.) It's just that nobody cared. |
| 19:40.53 | SpeedEvil | WSI. |
| 19:41.11 | SpeedEvil | Sinclair was trying to push it in 1985? |
| 19:41.12 | landley | Similarly the cell processor stuff in powerpc didn't take off because the software wasn't there. |
| 19:41.32 | SpeedEvil | paralelliaatin is hard. |
| 19:42.08 | SpeedEvil | see! I even have problems parallelising with just two thumbs. |
| 19:43.17 | landley | RISC took a decade before compilers could take advantage of it, by which time Intel had an instruction translation unit to run CISC on RISC. |
| 19:43.57 | SpeedEvil | RISC was sort of stillborn as CPU cycles caught up to ram ones. |
| 19:43.59 | landley | Everybody keeps announcing new breakthroughs in parallelizing compilers, and they have yet to make a real-world difference in anything I've seen... |
| 19:44.10 | SpeedEvil | then it made less sense. |
| 19:44.29 | landley | Nah, everything uses RISC internally. They just combined the best of both approaches. |
| 19:44.37 | SpeedEvil | well, yes. |
| 19:44.40 | landley | RISC has the problem it puts more pressure on the memory bus, which is already a bottleneck. |
| 19:44.46 | SpeedEvil | poorly phrased |
| 19:44.57 | landley | But CISC has some epic sequencing issues unless you break it down inside the chip into some other instruction set. |
| 19:45.37 | SpeedEvil | I still find it kind of astonishing that the random access cycle time for RAM has remained essentially constant since 1980. |
| 19:45.45 | landley | Arm is dethroning X86 because both Intel and Microsoft spent a decade too long with blinders on. |
| 19:45.54 | landley | Digital Research all over again. |
| 19:45.54 | SpeedEvil | while size has increased by a million. |
| 19:46.39 | SpeedEvil | been idly wondering on a chromebook. |
| 19:46.42 | landley | "As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know, |
| 19:46.42 | landley | Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is." |
| 19:47.01 | SpeedEvil | to put a more normal distribution on, |
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