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| 01:46.00 | landley | The Linux developers never test the qemu arm-versatile emulation. They just keep breaking it. |
| 01:46.34 | landley | This despite nobody having _actual_ versatile hardware anymore, so it's _just_ the emulation that matters. (They probably broke real hardware too...) |
| 01:47.53 | landley | Of course they probably broke the real hardware years before qemu ever emulated it, so... |
| 01:52.17 | prpplague | hehe |
| 01:55.22 | landley | The qemu guys with -rc0 are being a bit too cute, by the way. |
| 01:55.30 | landley | "Yes, that's adorable. Stop it." |
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| 02:05.30 | prpplague | hehe |
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| 04:30.51 | anunnaki | when trying to get linux on a device and i found someone put linux 2.6.20 on it. does that mean i have to use that kernel version or do i use the newest one and jsut apply the patches for the old one to the new one? sorry noob question |
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| 07:50.52 | anunnaki | "would be something like conf/machine/include/xxxx.inc for your "machine"" but the person didnt tell me what exactly they were talking about.. any ideas? they did however mention that i had to create or find a machine file? |
| 07:51.02 | anunnaki | or a machine definition |
| 07:56.38 | av500 | what device? |
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| 08:49.00 | anunnaki | moto q |
| 08:59.38 | anunnaki | if im applying a patch to a kernel that i just downloaded.. do i just extra the kernel tar and apply the patch or do i have to get it into a vm and apply the patch to that /usr/src/linux |
| 09:03.20 | av500 | no need for VM |
| 09:03.26 | av500 | untar the kernel and patch it |
| 09:03.33 | av500 | but what will you do after patching it? |
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| 09:46.02 | anunnaki | av500, cross compile it |
| 09:46.53 | anunnaki | then flash the image to my moto q hopefully |
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| 13:08.50 | dijenerate | prpplague: howdy |
| 13:10.36 | dijenerate | prpplague: SMD Wireless and AdSpaces are now live in Trinidad and Tobago. Take a look: www.whatisadspaces.com/trinidad |
| 13:10.47 | dijenerate | prpplague: more countries to come... stay tuned... |
| 13:10.56 | dijenerate | prpplague: how's the job hunt coming? |
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| 14:16.57 | landley | And I have reached a point where "instrument the kernel or instrument qemu, hmm..." is my next big choice. |
| 14:17.10 | landley | I'd like the people who keep screwing up the versatile board's interrupt routing to STOPPIT. |
| 14:25.28 | av500 | one would think that ARM people keep versatile working |
| 14:26.30 | prpplague | indeed |
| 14:26.33 | prpplague | av500: greetings |
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| 14:26.52 | prpplague | landley: gainfully employed again? |
| 14:27.03 | prpplague | landley: didn't you say you had a contract? |
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| 14:53.11 | landley | prpplague: yeah, 6 months at Cray in minnesota. |
| 14:53.27 | landley | "Per diem" can be sung to "Tomorrow" from annie, by the way. |
| 14:53.57 | landley | Although "they pay me... per diem" isn't _quite_ accurate because they pay me weekly, but I _get_ per diem, so... |
| 14:54.18 | landley | "per diem, per diem, they pay me, per diem, for living... so far away..." |
| 14:54.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:54.40 | prpplague | would do that if he didn't have little critters |
| 14:54.53 | landley | (Inappropriate impromptu musical numbers are an environmental hazard around me. I like to be prepared.) |
| 14:55.00 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:55.12 | prpplague | landley: the do that kind of stuff in barbados |
| 14:55.42 | prpplague | landley: i once saw a bunch of people dancing and singing in a grocery store there when some song from Grease came on the store radio |
| 14:56.36 | landley | The habitrails of urban minnesota don't exactly give you cabin fever, but there's a certain local cultural impact. |
| 14:56.42 | landley | They grow weird up here. Farm it even. |
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| 17:28.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ping |
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| 19:26.27 | anunnaki | http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/674262855/mk802_mini_pc_board.html is one able to access the system files on these things and edit them as we please? like if we wanted to add a bluetooth dongle is why im asking |
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| 21:01.39 | anunnaki | basically i narrowed it down to either cubie droid minipc or hackberry.. i like ir ports and i dont think android mini pc has that option so hackberry ? |
| 21:03.53 | _av500_ | there is a ton of android TV sticks |
| 21:14.18 | calculus | and some of the tv sticks have integrated bluetooth, webcams, or microphones |
| 21:15.24 | _av500_ | and cowbells |
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| 21:40.06 | Shinda | hello all |
| 21:40.14 | _av500_ | lo |
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| 22:16.44 | landley | Hi Shinda. |
| 22:17.36 | landley | _av500_ Other than raspberry pi, you mean? |
| 22:19.32 | _av500_ | landley: ? |
| 22:20.27 | landley | I dunno what you mean by "tv stick". |
| 22:20.37 | _av500_ | ah |
| 22:20.41 | landley | Raspberry pi was the first reasonably priced device I saw with builtin hdmi out. |
| 22:20.48 | _av500_ | all these android tv sticks that have hdmi out |
| 22:21.13 | landley | Raspbery pi went for economy of scale to keep the price down. |
| 22:21.29 | landley | The problem with 37 minor hardware variants is that if each of them is shipping 5k units total they're all going to be expensive. |
| 22:21.41 | _av500_ | landley: the chinese tv sticks started at around 99 and are now dropping down to 30 |
| 22:23.18 | _av500_ | and they have at least 2x the cpu and 2x the mem of the rpi |
| 22:23.32 | _av500_ | startinf from cortex A8 |
| 22:26.52 | landley | Reference? |
| 22:28.54 | anunnaki | calculus they do? |
| 22:29.33 | anunnaki | those tv sticks os look like cell phones though and not linux on a pc.. do they have terminal in there somewhere? |
| 22:29.41 | anunnaki | i never owned a droid.. |
| 22:30.01 | anunnaki | i like cubieboard because it also has ir |
| 22:30.59 | anunnaki | _av500_, yeah im looking at those right now.. theyre like 30 dollars each. but im just worried about what i can do with them... |
| 22:31.12 | anunnaki | are they like rasp pi and cubie |
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| 22:45.51 | calculus | anunnaki: mk812, or the measy u2c |
| 22:46.31 | calculus | plus a ton of others based off the mk802/8/9 |
| 22:47.01 | anunnaki | im just not familiar with those droid sticks systems |
| 22:47.29 | anunnaki | im familiar with linux of course. i use gentoo. but never owned a droid device |
| 22:47.37 | calculus | neither am I, other than new ones keep coming out everyday |
| 22:47.51 | anunnaki | and theyre getting cheaper and faster i see |
| 22:48.12 | anunnaki | i like the cubie and hackberry have ir, but i guess one doesnt have sata |
| 22:48.17 | calculus | and some have written ubuntu installers for them |
| 22:48.39 | anunnaki | i think im better off not looking at those sticks.. |
| 22:48.54 | anunnaki | they have alot but i feel they might limit us as well |
| 22:48.55 | landley | anunnaki: the droid kernel can run a vanilla linux userspace. |
| 22:48.59 | landley | They added stuff but didn't remove anything. |
| 22:49.18 | landley | They tend to be a bit stale, the newest is 3.x but the previous is like 2.6.37. |
| 22:49.29 | landley | But it runs most of the interesting stuff. |
| 22:49.41 | anunnaki | what im looking for is something i can work in |
| 22:50.03 | landley | The thing you have to worry about is board support, which is a kernel issue. |
| 22:50.43 | landley | Does vanilla have support for this SoC with all the peripherals? If it's got HDMI, the answer is "no" because the licensing is "reasonable and non-discriminatory", which is classic "This is an open standard" doublespeak. |
| 22:51.20 | landley | Boils down to a binary blob somebody paid a license fee for. |
| 22:51.47 | landley | If you're lucky it'll be firmware that loads into an external device and _not_ a kernel module that runs on the same processor as linux. |
| 22:52.01 | landley | (That way it's cleanly separated and you don't have version skew with your module going stale if you upgrade the kernel.) |
| 22:52.15 | landley | Alas, small cheap boards don't tend to hare spare processors... |
| 22:52.16 | anunnaki | which is why i dont like the sticks |
| 22:52.33 | landley | Eventually the HDMI patents will expire. |
| 22:52.45 | anunnaki | seems like theres more out there for raspberry pi so ill have more support |
| 22:54.44 | anunnaki | if i knew i could go into one of thsoe droid stick whether it be by ssh or hdmi and pull up a terminal and change the bluetooth so it pypasses security keys then i would get it |
| 22:55.21 | anunnaki | but from what i saw on droid minipc screenshots. its like a cell phone and not a pc |
| 22:55.48 | landley | All the arm stuff is cell phones. |
| 22:55.50 | anunnaki | and i read yes you can install linux on these sticks but that is probably not that easy as landley is saying |
| 22:56.02 | landley | TI was the big non-cell phone arm holdout, and ask prpplague how that worked otu. |
| 22:56.29 | landley | It's like saying "all PCs are laptops these days". It's a truism. In the server end sticking laptop components into a rackmount setup is called a "blade server"... |
| 22:56.41 | landley | Whatever has the highest unit volume has the lowest costs... |
| 22:57.13 | landley | anunnaki: you can keep the existing kernel and install a linux userspace. |
| 22:57.16 | landley | Do so as a chroot if you like. |
| 22:57.24 | landley | ideally you want one that a vanilla kernel can build on with known patches. |
| 22:57.31 | landley | Hence raspberry pi, which had that as a design goal. |
| 22:58.00 | landley | The problem with a cheap taiwanese import is you get a horrible BSP aimed at vendors putting together a product and shipping 50k identical devices. |
| 22:58.47 | landley | They don't care if all the packages in the BSP are hacked out the wazoo and years stale, they port their code to run on it, pump the channel full of abandonware, dissolve the company before it hits the retail shelves (to dodge incoming patent suits) and move on. |
| 23:00.06 | anunnaki | yeah i heard about that happening.. i think with gooseberry was it? |
| 23:00.14 | landley | Less so here than in asia, but then we make less electronic stuff here in general than asia, at least of this type. |
| 23:00.25 | landley | anunnaki: um, hundreds per year. |
| 23:00.39 | landley | This is a fairly standard development model. Adaptation to our broken patent system. |
| 23:01.03 | landley | You can't hook a potato battery to a flashlight bulb without violating multiple patents. |
| 23:01.30 | landley | There's a few heroes like http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/01/how-newegg-crushed-the-shopping-cart-patent-and-saved-online-retail/ but that's rare. |
| 23:02.13 | anunnaki | landley, so what do you ultimately recommend? i was looking at rasp pi first but then learned cubie was the same thing but had a bit more like ir which i like having. i need wifi, bluetooth, and ir. if possible i would like to engineer a button to bind with the ir to turn on and off if it doesnt already have one |
| 23:03.47 | landley | I'm aware of a raspberry pi community that's ported stuff like debian to it. |
| 23:04.30 | landley | You can get a better bang for the buck elsewhere (more power at the same price), but if you do I don't know where to go for answers about programming the result. |
| 23:04.59 | anunnaki | but you also said i can jsut install a linux userspace on those droid sticks.. then again those droid sticks dont have ir eitehr and havent seen the bluetooth ones yet |
| 23:05.37 | landley | You want gpio. 60 seconds with Google found: http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2012/12/18/adafruits-raspberry-pi-lesson-4-gpio-setup-raspberry_pi-raspberrypi/ |
| 23:05.59 | anunnaki | money isnt an issue since theyre all relatively cheap. im more concerned with getting bluetooth, wifi, ir working properly in a system i know how to work with. |
| 23:06.11 | landley | GPIO (General Purpose I/O) is pins that can generate and receive electrical signals. |
| 23:06.37 | landley | Each one coresponds to a bit in some register somewhere. Write the bit, signal goes out the pin. Read the bit, it tells you if a signal's coming in the pin. |
| 23:06.59 | landley | There's a controller you program to set voltage levels. |
| 23:07.07 | landley | Much beyond that, ask other people here. :) |
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| 23:07.38 | landley | http://elinux.org/R-Pi_Hub |
| 23:08.15 | landley | Scroll down to the "resources" section, "hardware & peripherals". |
| 23:09.19 | anunnaki | cubie has that as well from what im told |
| 23:09.21 | landley | (Note that those pages aren't empty, they just have a horrible style sheet. Index is on the right, scroll down to see text.) |
| 23:09.35 | landley | anunnaki: then go with them. Good luck. |
| 23:09.38 | anunnaki | haha ok ill keep scrolling |
| 23:09.52 | landley | I'm unfamiliar with the cubie community but if it's got what you need, go for it. |
| 23:11.09 | anunnaki | thats the thing theres not much of a community. im trying to figure out if cubie will be getting in over my head or if its coming alogn like rpi |
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