| 00:06.43 | prpplague | landley_: yea i getting a little old do that kind of hours |
| 00:07.00 | prpplague | landley_: new job, gotta make a nice performance/impact |
| 00:07.46 | prpplague | "i can do in a week you guys can do in 6 months, now don't you forget it", hehehehe |
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| 14:16.10 | landley | "A two monitor display, one directly behind the other." |
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| 14:45.35 | slashbeast | landley: what's your init solution of choice? |
| 14:45.43 | slashbeast | landley: I am looking and runit and it does indeed looks great |
| 14:46.12 | landley | I don't have an init solution of choice yet. |
| 14:46.26 | landley | I covered that a bit in the talk that the linux foundation's never going to put video of up. |
| 14:46.40 | landley | Android has its own init that looks like it's running a shell script but isn't. |
| 14:46.44 | slashbeast | i hope you won't find systemd the solution. |
| 14:46.49 | landley | I haven't fully read through upstart yet. |
| 14:47.01 | landley | I know it won't be systemd, that can die with the PC. |
| 14:47.30 | landley | I've got oneit now, and probably have to provide something sysv-ish, but it should be common code with something more capable. |
| 14:47.49 | landley | I have no interest in Deny's preferred init weirdness. I can go read it again to see if I start to care, but I've read it 3 times already. |
| 14:48.09 | slashbeast | runit does provide nice features and seems to be damn simple. |
| 14:48.24 | slashbeast | I am sick of the super huge crap like udev is, and openrc is on the track to become one. |
| 14:48.38 | landley | What upstart and the android one are trying to do is provide parallelism with dependency tracking and reliable service restarts. |
| 14:48.47 | landley | Which is weird because they never try to restart PID 1 but oh well. |
| 14:49.02 | landley | Which one's openrc again? |
| 14:49.14 | _av500_ | landley: isnt systemd all about reliable service restarts? |
| 14:49.27 | landley | Oh, the gentoo thing again. |
| 14:49.35 | landley | _av500_ upstart was all about reliable service restarts. |
| 14:49.36 | _av500_ | openrc is gentoo |
| 14:49.48 | _av500_ | right systemd was about: no forks |
| 14:49.54 | _av500_ | so no shell scripts |
| 14:49.58 | landley | systemd is about attempting to link the whole of userspace into a single monolithic binary that behaves nothing like conventional unix at any point. |
| 14:50.01 | slashbeast | the gentoo does use openrc |
| 14:50.17 | landley | Ok, so I've got to look at what that does. |
| 14:50.26 | landley | Many things are trying to solve the same problem. |
| 14:50.44 | landley | Denys's thing is simple because it doesn't attempt to address any of the actual problems, it gives you tools and says "go away". |
| 14:50.55 | _av500_ | landley: http://pastebin.com/gfv57mcL |
| 14:51.01 | landley | And the thing is, you don't need those tools. You can use a shell script if you're rolling your own. |
| 14:51.45 | landley | av500: and? |
| 14:51.49 | slashbeast | Something somewhere went terribly wrong. |
| 14:51.58 | slashbeast | the linux suppose to be simple for the fuck's sake. |
| 14:52.00 | landley | His name is Lennart Pottering. |
| 14:52.03 | _av500_ | landley: the future :) |
| 14:52.09 | slashbeast | Lennart is the problem |
| 14:52.18 | slashbeast | he's fault is policykit and pulseaudio |
| 14:52.29 | landley | He's Linux's Jorg Schilling. |
| 14:52.40 | _av500_ | the fault is with the people that follow him |
| 14:52.53 | _av500_ | nobody forced linuxwide pulse adoption |
| 14:52.57 | landley | I'm not going there, I'm just saying systemd ain't it. |
| 14:53.18 | _av500_ | landley: what is "deny's thing"? |
| 14:56.05 | landley | Sorry, typo. Denys Vlasenko's preferred init solution, which I'd never heard of before he put it in busybox and still haven't head of from anywhere else. |
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| 15:25.19 | slashbeast | anyone uses brctl here to setup bridges? |
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| 16:09.32 | XandriX | is that a part of bridge-utils ? |
| 16:18.49 | gustavoz | it may be busybox brctl or separate bridge-utils |
| 16:19.45 | XandriX | aaah cuz i know bridge-utils quite well |
| 16:19.56 | XandriX | but never messed with the busybox one |
| 16:24.45 | gustavoz | it's basically the same with less options |
| 16:25.52 | gustavoz | you don't get showmacs and maybe some other option, otherwise it's 100% compatible |
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| 16:31.24 | XandriX | aah |
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| 17:14.07 | slashbeast | the kernel's menuconfig is retarded, if I boot 64bit kernel, the menuconfig does not shows 'large block devices' support, but if I ado linux32 it does work. |
| 17:14.18 | slashbeast | it really shoudn't rely on the march. |
| 17:21.17 | prpplague | slashbeast: export ARCH for specific cross compile operations |
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| 18:02.37 | XandriX | sup prpplague |
| 18:04.57 | landley | slashbeast: 64 bit kernel has 64 bit off_t all the time. |
| 18:05.09 | landley | There's no large block devices support because you can't switch it _off_. |
| 18:05.46 | landley | Note that menuconfig is detecting the host time if you don't specify ARCH= |
| 18:07.20 | landley | And once again, 4 days since the last CELF videos posted. My talk still not up. :( |
| 18:08.18 | prpplague | XandriX: greetings |
| 18:08.38 | prpplague | landley: hehe |
| 18:08.43 | prpplague | landley: LF hates you |
| 18:10.01 | landley | I do mock yocto. |
| 18:10.05 | landley | Like I mocked tizen before it. |
| 18:10.12 | landley | (Meego was self-mocking.) |
| 18:10.44 | landley | It's ok, I can submit the same talk to Texas Linuxfest. |
| 18:10.50 | landley | I expect they'll get the video up before LF does. |
| 18:11.04 | landley | I was just waiting to see if the video went up so I could submit a DIFFERENT talk to texas linuxfest... |
| 18:21.51 | prpplague | landley: when is the deadline texas linuxfest cfp? |
| 18:22.06 | landley | end of the month I think? |
| 18:22.16 | prpplague | ahh |
| 18:23.43 | landley | I'd prefer to do something like "Open Source After Copyleft". |
| 18:24.06 | landley | Hmmm, "The Decline and Fall of Copyleft", perhaps? |
| 18:24.16 | prpplague | hehe |
| 18:24.37 | landley | If you saw my talk I spent a couple minutes on this, but it could easily be a full hour. |
| 18:25.05 | landley | Since I started the darn busybox lawsuits anyway, I do have a little standing to talk on this issue... |
| 18:25.16 | prpplague | missed most of the presentations at ELC due to meetings and getting acquanted with his new job at cco |
| 18:25.52 | landley | prpplague: well, if I do the same talk again at TLF you should be able to see the video when they put it up. |
| 18:26.00 | prpplague | :) |
| 18:26.03 | landley | The Linux Foundation, however, remains moderately useless. |
| 18:26.17 | landley | (Linus' paychecks keep clearing. That's about it.) |
| 18:26.20 | prpplague | i plan to start bringing my own video recorder |
| 18:26.43 | landley | I should just do podcasts with my phone. |
| 18:37.56 | XandriX | would watch those podcasts |
| 18:40.18 | landley | I had http://video.linux.com/videos/100-linux-tutorials-how-to-record-your-screen-with-the-avconv-command bookmarked on my todo read for a month. |
| 18:40.21 | landley | Sat down to watch it over the weekend. |
| 18:40.24 | landley | It's in italian. |
| 18:40.37 | landley | Now let's stop and think about the Linux Foundation's "100 linux tutorials" project. |
| 18:41.05 | landley | Your average user who knows one language is going to be able to understand what fraction of these? |
| 18:41.07 | landley | Maybe six? |
| 18:41.16 | landley | What's the flipping POINT of collecting non-english tutorials? |
| 18:41.32 | landley | Linus Torvalds learned english. It wasn't his first language. |
| 18:41.38 | landley | Andrea Arcangeli is italian. |
| 18:42.10 | landley | Ingo Molnar, Denys Vlasenko... lotsa non-english speakers in the dev community who picked a common language. |
| 18:42.20 | landley | Sigh. |
| 18:42.34 | landley | I'm all for internationalization, but I don't see the _use_ of what the linux foundation is doing here. |
| 18:42.56 | landley | How is an italian speaker supposed to find a tutorial on the video.linux.com web page that's IN ENGLISH? |
| 18:43.13 | landley | The summary is in english, it just says "Language:Italian" at the end. |
| 18:43.15 | landley | What the...? |
| 18:44.03 | landley | (If the linux foundation had an it.linux.com sub-page, that would be one thing.) |
| 18:44.23 | landley | (But they don't. Throwing it in a pile with videos in other languages does not help.) |
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| 19:02.49 | _av500_ | landley: I guess if you want to fill up 100 tutorials, at some point you take anything that moves |
| 19:03.40 | landley | av500: I'm pretty sure _I_ could do 100 tutorials in a year. |
| 19:07.38 | _av500_ | you yes |
| 19:09.28 | landley | Heck, posix command line utilities, you could do a tutorial on half of those. |
| 19:09.35 | landley | Setting up a build environment. |
| 19:10.15 | landley | Start recording a knoppix boot and walk through some of the cool things you can do with a linux live cd. |
| 19:10.16 | roxfan | "how to use ls" |
| 19:10.26 | landley | Given the number of options it has: yes. |
| 19:10.40 | landley | And non-posix: screen is a tutorial to itself. |
| 19:11.10 | landley | screen -Dr walrus. |
| 19:11.11 | _av500_ | "how to use your brain" |
| 19:11.20 | _av500_ | in 956 easy steps |
| 19:11.37 | landley | I'm guessing the LInux Foundation wants tutorials on _Linux_. But that's just a guess with them... |
| 19:16.21 | mnemoc | a modern LDD would be welcomed :p |
| 19:16.34 | landley | Linux Device Drivers book? |
| 19:16.45 | landley | Most current is Robert Love's book, I think? (Third edition?) |
| 19:16.58 | landley | I really should do an online variant that actually gets updated... |
| 19:17.20 | landley | So many things I _should_ do. But day job takes up most of my time and energy... |
| 19:18.19 | mnemoc | robert love's book is good, but it's not exactly the same as the old ldd3... which been from 2005 seriously shows it's age |
| 19:19.17 | mnemoc | damn day jobs distracting people from what really matters |
| 19:20.32 | calculus | they already have a tutorial for the knoppix and ls things, Kyle Rankin wrote Knoppix Hacks, and it is filled with little things like top and ls |
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