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| 02:26.52 | Senor | sh:can't access tty ,job control turn off |
| 02:27.12 | Senor | is there method to resolve this ? |
| 02:29.01 | prpplague | Senor: when you have executed the shell and/or login, there is no controlling terminal |
| 02:29.41 | prpplague | Senor: or the permissions for the tty you have shell and/or login on does not have the permissions set correctly |
| 02:30.22 | Senor | prpplague : I find it is due to not find controlling terminal |
| 02:30.44 | Senor | task current->tty is NULL |
| 02:31.06 | Senor | so what should I do for this? |
| 02:31.17 | prpplague | Senor: then make sure that your init application has called the shell with a controlling terminal |
| 02:37.10 | Senor | prpplague : I have not prepared init application ,I just start shell as init process ,like this : execv("/bin/sh") at last step of kernel booting |
| 02:37.42 | prpplague | Senor: which is why there is no controlling terminal |
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| 02:40.29 | Senor | prpplague : may i ask when/how chould the current task get one controlling terminal? |
| 02:40.47 | Senor | it seems that tty has not been opened |
| 02:41.49 | prpplague | http://www.lindevdoc.org/wiki/Controlling_terminal |
| 02:42.25 | prpplague | http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/programming/linux/9781593272203/process-groups-sessions-and-job-control/controlling_terminals_and_controlling_pr |
| 02:50.39 | Senor | prpplague : in normal ways ,is the init application responsilbe for open one controlling terminal ? |
| 02:50.57 | prpplague | Senor: yes |
| 02:51.11 | prpplague | Senor: look at the source code for the init that is part of busybox |
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| 02:59.27 | Senor | prpplague : I find init dir under busybox source tree,but it seems that no object file named "init" generated after make |
| 03:00.00 | prpplague | Senor: hehe |
| 03:00.07 | prpplague | Senor: busybox is the init |
| 03:00.14 | prpplague | Senor: it is linked |
| 03:24.19 | Senor | prpplague: I have specified busybox as init application ,but at the last step ,it reports this : init:applet not found |
| 03:24.57 | Senor | my code is : run_init_process("/bin/busybox"); |
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| 03:52.29 | MonMotha | you have to invoke it with argv[0] as "init", I think |
| 03:52.35 | MonMotha | though it may figure it out if its PID is 1 |
| 03:52.49 | MonMotha | also, make sure you've got init compiled into busybox. It can be turned off. |
| 04:06.52 | Senor | MonMotha : is there applet named "init" generated after make? |
| 04:07.17 | MonMotha | no, it will be part of the multi-call "busybox" binary |
| 04:07.32 | MonMotha | if you run "busybox" with argv[0] as "init", then it will act like init |
| 04:07.45 | MonMotha | this is usually accomplished by symlinking /sbin/init to busybox |
| 04:08.10 | MonMotha | that's true of all the stuff built in to busybox |
| 04:08.26 | Senor | ln -s /sbin/init busybox? |
| 04:08.38 | MonMotha | other way |
| 04:08.46 | MonMotha | ln -s /bin/busybox /sbin/init |
| 04:08.51 | MonMotha | (or wherever you have busybox) |
| 04:09.21 | MonMotha | you can also call it directly as "busybox init", but that's not useful for bootup since the kernel doesn't support passing arguments to init afaik |
| 04:12.13 | Senor | how can i do to invoke it with argv[0] as "init" ? |
| 04:13.17 | Senor | I do not understand you |
| 04:14.29 | calculus | busybox init foo bar: means it calls the main in busybox with argv = [init, foo, bar], and argv[0] = init, argv[1] = foo, etc |
| 04:14.32 | MonMotha | argv[0] is the name of the binary as it was invoked |
| 04:15.20 | MonMotha | calculus: strictly speaking, "busybox init foo bar" has argv = ["busybox", "init", "foo", "bar"] i.e. argv[0] is "busybox" |
| 04:15.55 | MonMotha | however, busybox detects this and runs the built-in applet identified by argv[1] with argv[1] = argv[2] etc. |
| 04:16.03 | Senor | so init should be argv[1[ |
| 04:16.06 | Senor | so init should be argv[1] |
| 04:16.14 | MonMotha | that'll work, too, but the kernel doesn't know how to do that |
| 04:16.38 | Senor | what you mean |
| 04:16.42 | MonMotha | the kernel boots up and launches PID 1 as /sbin/init (or whatever you tell it) with argv[0] set as whatever the basename of the path is (e.g. "init") and no more arguments |
| 04:16.57 | MonMotha | but, busybox knows how to handle that, too |
| 04:17.06 | calculus | MonMotha: ahh yes, true |
| 04:17.14 | MonMotha | if busybox is run with argv[0] != "busybox", it treats argv[0] as the name of a built-in applet to run |
| 04:17.45 | MonMotha | an easy (and common) way to make that happen is to just symlink busybox to /sbin/init or whatever |
| 04:18.10 | MonMotha | when you run /sbin/init, as usual, and the kernel makes argv[0] equal to the basename of /sbin/init (i.e. "init"), as usual |
| 04:18.17 | calculus | another debuging tip is to boot with init=/bin/sh, at least to see if your kernel is able to boot |
| 04:18.18 | MonMotha | busybox figures out what to do from there |
| 04:23.44 | Senor | if I run_init_process("/bin/busybox"), what will happed? |
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| 04:30.04 | MonMotha | I would assume that would invoke busybox with argv[0] == "busybox" and no more arguments |
| 04:30.11 | MonMotha | which will cause busybox to just print the usage information and exit |
| 04:30.19 | MonMotha | ...since you haven't told it what to do |
| 04:35.58 | Senor | MonMotha : I have found my problem is due to not build with init |
| 04:36.11 | MonMotha | that would do it |
| 04:36.26 | Senor | so how to build init in ? is there config option for that? |
| 04:36.52 | MonMotha | es |
| 04:36.55 | MonMotha | *yes |
| 04:37.06 | Senor | which option .... :) |
| 04:37.31 | MonMotha | I don't know off hand |
| 04:37.38 | MonMotha | doesn't busybox have a nice menuconfig like interface? |
| 04:37.50 | Senor | it does |
| 04:38.05 | Senor | but i can not right option |
| 04:39.19 | Senor | but i can not find right option |
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| 06:36.48 | Senor | How does busybox find the tty device which it will use for io ? |
| 06:38.16 | av500 | from inittav |
| 06:38.18 | av500 | from inittab |
| 06:40.53 | MonMotha | IIRC, some messages may always go to "the console" |
| 06:41.18 | MonMotha | but yes, you spawn e.g. gettys on ttys based on the config in inittab |
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| 07:05.12 | walltender | Is there a library to read power consumption for different devices on linux? |
| 07:07.21 | MonMotha | in general, not any that I'm aware of. The issue is that various devices/subsystems report power usage in very different ways |
| 07:07.33 | MonMotha | if you're on an x86 PC, you may find Intel's "powertop" tool useful |
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| 07:12.53 | SpeedEvil | and that many devices dont do so at all |
| 07:13.54 | walltender | Most important is the CPU power consumption. But my powertop doesn't show power est. column. |
| 07:14.33 | av500 | yeah |
| 07:14.39 | av500 | how should it know? |
| 07:14.49 | av500 | most PCs do not have embedded current sensors |
| 07:14.58 | av500 | its a guess anyway |
| 07:15.04 | av500 | if you need to know it, measure it |
| 07:16.36 | walltender | av500: Are you saying powertop didn't show power est. because there's no sensors on my laptop? |
| 07:18.07 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 07:18.10 | SpeedEvil | likely |
| 07:18.19 | SpeedEvil | or it doesn't know how to use them |
| 07:18.23 | av500 | or that |
| 07:18.25 | SpeedEvil | unplug the laptop |
| 07:18.33 | av500 | and the battery |
| 07:18.44 | SpeedEvil | many can only report battery use |
| 07:18.47 | av500 | then connect a good power supply instead of the battery |
| 07:18.53 | SpeedEvil | err, no |
| 07:18.55 | av500 | :) |
| 07:18.57 | av500 | yes |
| 07:19.17 | SpeedEvil | most laptops can give battery power use when unplugged |
| 07:19.56 | MonMotha | usually because the battery reports it (smart battery) |
| 07:19.58 | MonMotha | and the battery has to know |
| 07:19.59 | SpeedEvil | and in most cases now, you can't connect random power supplies and have it work |
| 07:20.31 | MonMotha | since it does charge counting for its runtime estimates and also to partially control recharge |
| 07:20.34 | walltender | Nop, unplug the power supply doesn't solve it. |
| 07:20.45 | MonMotha | powertop may not know to ask the battery |
| 07:20.56 | MonMotha | check in /proc/acpi or wherever's relevant in /sys these days |
| 07:21.31 | MonMotha | lm-sensors may also be able to ask the battery directly using the smbus |
| 07:21.33 | walltender | it only says The battery reports a discharge rate of 8.59 W |
| 07:21.46 | MonMotha | there yo ugo |
| 07:21.53 | MonMotha | your PC is drawing 8.59W |
| 07:22.01 | MonMotha | that's everything, but it's a real, hard number |
| 07:22.03 | av500 | exactly 8.59W :) |
| 07:22.11 | MonMotha | it's probably quite accurate |
| 07:22.18 | av500 | yeash |
| 07:22.29 | MonMotha | most smart batteries have surprisingly accurate current sensors. They have to in order to work right. |
| 07:23.22 | walltender | But I want to get power est as shown in this post: http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/638380-powertop-finds-power-hogs-on-your-linux-pc |
| 07:24.59 | SpeedEvil | use a recent version |
| 07:25.14 | SpeedEvil | that power use is a shonky guess |
| 07:25.21 | av500 | yep |
| 07:25.35 | walltender | And my ubuntu distro says /proc/acpi are deprecated. Does that mean to read voltage consumption, I have to go into each /sys directory. |
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| 07:26.34 | SpeedEvil | there are no separate current sensors |
| 07:27.11 | SpeedEvil | the above was a hack that assumes when you turn on a subsystem, the current step is speratley observable |
| 07:27.56 | SpeedEvil | through the battery sensor |
| 07:28.03 | MonMotha | fwiw, powertop does not show that kind of info on my laptop |
| 07:28.03 | MonMotha | and I know mine has fairly good instrumentation (it's a Thinkpad) |
| 07:28.04 | MonMotha | so there's probably some kernel option/patch it needs |
| 07:28.05 | MonMotha | you may just need to let it run for a while. It's making guesses by trying to figure out what each individual draw is and checking the battery reported draw |
| 07:28.06 | MonMotha | which, btw, is ~15W on my machine right now, so you're not doing too badly |
| 07:28.08 | walltender | I'm sorry, I don't understand. |
| 07:28.39 | MonMotha | I figured that's what it may be doing |
| 07:28.52 | MonMotha | I wouldn't be surprised if some systems do have e.g. a current monitor for the CPU, GPU, etc. |
| 07:29.02 | MonMotha | but I don't think Powertop knows how to aggregate that data since it's quite system-specific |
| 07:29.17 | SpeedEvil | but the problem is it's not exposed to Linux often |
| 07:29.22 | SpeedEvil | or windows |
| 07:29.28 | MonMotha | indeed |
| 07:29.39 | MonMotha | there are some stats I know on my machine in /sys |
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| 07:29.46 | MonMotha | they're in the smapi directory |
| 07:29.51 | MonMotha | aka the "Thinkpad extras" |
| 07:29.57 | SpeedEvil | obtain your laptop schematic, and ensure that all the sensors on it are supported |
| 07:30.05 | MonMotha | hah...good luck with that |
| 07:30.34 | SpeedEvil | actually, I have schematics for my mobile phone, laptop, tablet |
| 07:30.45 | MonMotha | where the hell did you get them? |
| 07:30.53 | SpeedEvil | but those are one off leaks in two out of three cases |
| 07:30.57 | MonMotha | those are usually pretty tightly controlled |
| 07:30.57 | walltender | I am using thinkpad too, motherboard schematic? there're must be a software solution? |
| 07:30.59 | MonMotha | yeah, I'd figure |
| 07:31.15 | SpeedEvil | walltender: why must there be? |
| 07:31.33 | SpeedEvil | the hardware you want may not be there. |
| 07:31.56 | MonMotha | look around in /sys/platform/devices |
| 07:32.09 | MonMotha | especially smapi, thinkpad_acpi, and thinkpad_hwmon |
| 07:32.20 | MonMotha | most of that's temperature/fan speed monitoring, though |
| 07:32.22 | MonMotha | not power consumption |
| 07:32.27 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_software_power_management |
| 07:32.30 | SpeedEvil | I wrote |
| 07:32.52 | MonMotha | if you're lucky, you may be able to get info about some very macro level things like CPU power, GPU power, and maybe backlight power |
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| 07:32.58 | MonMotha | and it may require some math |
| 07:32.59 | SpeedEvil | I meant to go into 'how to monitor power consumption of subsystems' - but it is _hard_ |
| 07:33.15 | MonMotha | it'll come down to where, if anywhere, they put current sensors |
| 07:33.41 | SpeedEvil | for example, what is the power consunptioon of the LCD |
| 07:33.59 | walltender | no platform user /sys directory |
| 07:34.20 | SpeedEvil | you in many cases can't measure it without turning on the backlight, GPU, CPU, ram |
| 07:34.40 | SpeedEvil | all the time the LCD is awake |
| 07:35.39 | walltender | No google result for my_motherboard schematics? |
| 07:36.38 | SpeedEvil | as an aside - android fakes it too |
| 07:37.00 | SpeedEvil | it has a big per device list of power use in various states, and just adds them up. |
| 07:37.21 | SpeedEvil | this can be wildly inaccurate. |
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| 07:44.43 | walltender | SpeedEvil: What do you mean by turn on a subsystem, the current step is speratley observable, google didn't show anything related to "turn on subsystem linux" |
| 07:45.01 | SpeedEvil | turn on the display |
| 07:45.33 | SpeedEvil | run md5sum /dev/zero to Max one CPU core |
| 07:45.40 | SpeedEvil | play a sound |
| 07:47.20 | MonMotha | walltender: you either need to update your kernel or load the thinkpad extras drivers |
| 07:48.03 | MonMotha | oh, and I guess it's /sys/devices/platform |
| 07:48.10 | MonMotha | not /sys/platform/devices |
| 07:49.34 | Senor | MonMotha : what is the reason for this : sh:can't access tty ,job control turn off |
| 07:50.16 | MonMotha | Senor: you ran sh without a controlling TTY |
| 07:50.28 | MonMotha | that will usually happen if you run it as though it were init |
| 07:50.33 | MonMotha | since init is not run with a controlling TTY |
| 07:51.30 | walltender | Here's what I get under /sys/devices/platform http://pastebin.com/NCRghJqA |
| 07:52.52 | Senor | MonMotha : you mean I should not run it as init ? |
| 07:53.15 | MonMotha | Senor: you can; you just won't get job control if you do |
| 07:53.22 | MonMotha | it's convention to run, well, init as init |
| 07:53.39 | MonMotha | that will spawn stuff on actual ttys (based on your settings in inittab) - this is basic stuff |
| 07:54.33 | walltender | MonMotha: Did get power est. now? |
| 07:54.47 | Senor | MonMotha :how can I get a controlling TTY ? |
| 07:55.03 | MonMotha | Senor: init handles that |
| 07:58.39 | walltender | MonMotha: Did you receive power est. now? |
| 07:59.10 | MonMotha | walltender: huh? I thought you were the one looking for power estimates |
| 07:59.53 | walltender | MonMotha: Yes, Of course, and, you said it's not shown on your machine either? |
| 08:00.04 | MonMotha | indeed, it is not |
| 08:03.03 | walltender | So I need to compile a new kernel to enable some options?https://github.com/fenrus75/powertop/blob/master/README |
| 08:05.09 | Senor | MonMotha : but my current tty device is NULL |
| 08:06.48 | MonMotha | Senor: I'm sorry. I can't continue to help you with such basics. I suggest you read up on the general Linux bootup process. This is not embedded specific, so there should be plenty of resources. |
| 08:06.58 | MonMotha | walltender: that's possible |
| 08:17.47 | Senor | MonMotha : thanks any way |
| 08:21.00 | MonMotha | Senor: you may also want to play with using regular coreutils/sysvinit/etc. rather than busybox |
| 08:21.12 | MonMotha | that may help remove some of the confusion you seem to be encountering due to busybox's multi-call nature |
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| 08:42.31 | Senor | well , thanks! |
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| 12:28.33 | MonMotha | walltender: btw, I left powertop running for a long time (several hours) and it did eventually start to work out what it believed to be the power consumption numbers I suspect you're looking for |
| 12:29.06 | Senor | MonMotha: The tty used by shell is a pseudo device or real device? |
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| 12:32.47 | walltender | MonMotha: Would you mind show me a screenshot? I compiled latest source and tried to enable some functions in kernel. However, that new kernel doesn't boot. I just read acpi might be able to read power consumption, however, I thought it's depcrated in ubuntu. |
| 12:33.14 | MonMotha | walltender: it looks just like the one in that article you linked |
| 12:33.35 | MonMotha | and yes, the /proc/acpi interface is deprecated (has been for a while). The same info is now buried in /sys |
| 12:33.45 | MonMotha | which, to be fair, is a more appropriate place for it |
| 12:35.06 | walltender | MonMotha: Ok, I also did a calibrate, still nothing happened. What exactly did you do? Is there a start point that I read some power consumption data. I have been stuck in this for several days. |
| 12:35.29 | MonMotha | just let it run for several hours |
| 12:35.45 | walltender | I mean I need to wirte some programs ... |
| 12:36.05 | MonMotha | I think powertop is OSS |
| 12:36.12 | MonMotha | it's doing a lot of guessing, though |
| 12:36.34 | MonMotha | it's basically doing the same kind of stuff smart electric meters do to tell you supposedly how much your fridge, dryer, stove, etc. take |
| 12:36.45 | MonMotha | it's looking for step changes that can be associated with known events |
| 12:37.08 | MonMotha | since, in general, all it has available to it is a single "how much power is going into the system" number |
| 12:37.31 | MonMotha | there's not a nice friendly API for you to get information like "how much power is my CD-ROM drive using?" |
| 12:38.00 | MonMotha | I wouldn't be surprised if some laptops have a sensor to directly measure that, but most won't, and even ones that do may not have a driver to expose it |
| 12:40.33 | walltender | Ok, so there's nothing to investigate under /sys/power? In fact, I am more concerned with cpu power consumption. |
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| 13:44.13 | Senor | May I ask what is the shell used tty's device name ? |
| 13:46.32 | av500 | what is in inittab |
| 13:48.55 | walltender | I think I might write programs to turning on and off the devices and measuring the difference of the power consumption. |
| 13:53.51 | av500 | walltender: what is your end goal? |
| 13:56.53 | walltender | part of the functionality is:measure power consumption of different devices, similarly as to what's powertutor on android provided. |
| 13:58.08 | SpeedEvil | power on android is a lie. |
| 13:58.08 | SpeedEvil | see above. |
| 13:58.26 | SpeedEvil | it's just a loaded table populated by the manufacturer |
| 13:58.41 | SpeedEvil | it may hold in limited circumstances. |
| 13:59.28 | SpeedEvil | but determining actual subsystem load in isolation is more or less impossible without knowing the detailed system architecture |
| 14:01.34 | SpeedEvil | if turning on peripheral b wakes up functional unit c, but so does turning on peripheral d, you need to get into quite involved analysis, or you will get the power use when you turn on b and d not b+d+c but b+d+c+c |
| 14:08.29 | walltender | SpeedEvil: Allow my foolishness, I am not aware of any such devices are inter-related. Will you give some examples? |
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| 14:32.47 | SpeedEvil | walltender: for example, c might be memory, a might be a sound device, and d might be video out |
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| 14:59.11 | walltender | SpeedEvil: I'm not expert in this, will you elaborate a bit. And what is b by the way? |
| 15:10.10 | walltender | SpeedEvil: Or put it another way, I have get powertop to make the power est., but what mechnism it uses to do the estimation? |
| 15:10.19 | av500 | use the source |
| 15:10.21 | av500 | it will tell you |
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| 15:41.04 | walltender | SpeedEvil: powertop does use power estimation for each devices, it's third options devices stats. |
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| 20:39.58 | prpplague | file: ping |
| 20:51.19 | file | Pong |
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| 20:58.48 | prpplague | file: hey bud |
| 20:59.01 | file | Yo |
| 20:59.20 | prpplague | file: i know it's been a while, but you still keep with with voip market? |
| 20:59.26 | file | Yes |
| 20:59.36 | prpplague | file: dany |
| 20:59.37 | prpplague | dandy |
| 20:59.47 | prpplague | file: i got thrown into the middle of something |
| 21:00.38 | prpplague | file: i have 4 pots and i need to find something i can install to use those 4 pots with 20 or so ip phones |
| 21:01.06 | file | Full phone system or an adapter |
| 21:01.38 | prpplague | file: probably full phone, want to keep the work down to a min |
| 21:02.10 | file | We (Digium) sell a complete system with hardware and phones |
| 21:02.18 | _av500_ | or use skype |
| 21:02.42 | prpplague | file: yea i was looking through the site when i remembered you had once worked for them |
| 21:02.54 | prpplague | file: it's been a long time since i looked at voip |
| 21:03.56 | prpplague | file: switchvox 65 was the low end one i was looking at |
| 21:04.01 | file | Yup |
| 21:04.06 | prpplague | file: but it looks like prices aren't listed |
| 21:04.24 | file | Yeah you have to talk to sales |
| 21:04.33 | prpplague | file: looks like you need a phone card to go with it as well |
| 21:04.42 | file | Yes |
| 21:05.23 | prpplague | wonders if digiums live chat will give an instant quote |
| 21:05.45 | file | That I do not know. |
| 21:07.01 | prpplague | gives it a try |
| 21:07.13 | prpplague | file: i assume you have some experience with the 65? |
| 21:08.04 | file | Its not specialized hardware, and the software is the same on all of them |
| 21:08.22 | prpplague | file: i figured as much |
| 21:08.40 | prpplague | file: basically an x86 board to place the phone cards? |
| 21:09.33 | prpplague | file: the online agent says you are mean |
| 21:09.36 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:10.34 | file | Lol |
| 21:10.46 | file | Yes, x86 board with Linux |
| 21:12.42 | prpplague | file: yea the price seems comparable to many of the other traditional pbx solutions |
| 21:14.56 | file | Unsurprising |
| 21:18.51 | file | Time to watch iron man 3 |
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