irclog2html for #elinux on 20030222

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02:36.01sorphinGPSFan: evening mr webpal
02:36.59GPSFansorphin: evening dan, went skiing today tired...
02:37.32sorphindidn't go skiing, but still tired
02:37.52GPSFan:)
02:38.24GPSFansorphin: anything exciting going on?
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03:07.28chouimat|Zzzzznight
04:06.18sorphinGPSFan: nope
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05:23.57sorphinTomW: evening
05:24.23TomWit is morning for me, I had to move the server yesterday.  
05:24.28sorphinheh
05:24.46sorphinand you're on from Blue Matrix Enterprises, Inc. :P
05:25.18TomWA fellow I maintain his small ISP for has a full T1 and let me move my server onto his T1.  I had to jump at the chance you know?
05:25.54sorphinhehe
05:26.06sorphinwell, my dsl is = to a full T1 :)
05:26.24sorphina full 1536 :)
05:26.40sorphinanyways
05:26.56sorphinprolly get those simms tomorrow :P
05:27.18TomWHe comes up with the cash and I keep the shit running.  He stuck a linux box on the system a week ago for some guy and the thing got root'ed.  When I walked in yesterday afternoon, that machine was in the throws of launching a nasty DOS attack on the router.
05:27.29*** join/#elinux as (as@modem-1172.blotto.dialup.pol.co.uk)
05:28.00TomWsorphin: your DSL is as fast as a T1, but a T1 is definately better.
05:28.12asTomW, can I steal a few mins or your time please?
05:28.18sorphinTomW: i dunno bout that
05:28.19TomWas: sure
05:28.32asTrying to blob a tux.
05:28.41TomWsorphin: DSL is a shared resource, what is your CIR with that DSL?
05:28.52as>>> c D!blob F!all
05:28.52asflash: id=1/49 (AMD Am29LV160BB), ss=20000 fs=400000 w=2 b=0-20000 f=5
05:28.52as;
05:29.31TomWas: oh, you are doing a virgin box, installing it for the first time over inferno?
05:29.41asYes.
05:30.33TomWas: you did the unlock of the flash, removed the +12, *then* checked to see that all sectors were in fact unlocked, right?
05:30.44sorphinTomW: no, cable is shared, DSL isn't :P
05:30.51sorphinTomW: i have a full 1536 :P
05:31.00TomWsorphin: DSL is a shared resource
05:31.08sorphinumm
05:31.16TomWsorphin: it is shared at the terminal server
05:31.22sorphinumm
05:31.28sorphinthere is no "terminal server" :P
05:31.34sorphini don't think you know how dsl works ;p
05:31.52TomWwell, the effective equivilant, names change but the idea is the same.
05:32.30sorphini *never* drop below 1536/165K/sec
05:32.37TomWDSL comes into a POP (Point of Presence), from there it usually connects to the cloud via a T1 .. T3 circuit.
05:32.42sorphinnope
05:32.47sorphinnot mine ;p
05:32.54TomWok
05:32.57sorphinnothing less than an OC3 :P
05:33.21sorphini go straight into SBC's network
05:33.29sorphinthey're my isp and dsl provider
05:33.44sorphinthat's why i'm happy w/ it, i've yet to have a prob, or speed issue
05:33.46TomWWe don't have that with DSL in our area(s), the DSL is a shared resource, it gets shared at the ISP location, all traffic from the individual circuits bottleneck at the ISP.
05:34.08sorphinwell, then you have a shitty setup ;)
05:34.18TomWDSL is a popular option in this area as people have the money to afford it.
05:34.30TomWunlike in the Mule State
05:34.34TomWheh
05:34.43sorphinthe mule state?
05:35.07TomWsorphin: I just think that you have a lot of backbone capacity on your DSL circuits and not many people using it.
05:35.10TomWright now.
05:35.22sorphinyou'd be surprised :P
05:35.42TomWMule state, as in Mo. mule
05:35.43sorphinthe advantage i have is i'm on a remote dslam
05:36.07sorphinproject pronto
05:36.17sorphinumm.. "MO Mule".. wtf are you on about?
05:37.04sorphinthere's no mule in relation to missouri that i've ever been aware of, and i've lived here all my life except for 1 year
05:37.14*** join/#elinux as2 (as@modem-44.uranium.dialup.pol.co.uk)
05:37.35as2Re.
05:37.42as2<TomW> as: oh, you are doing a virgin box, installing it for the first time over inferno?
05:37.42as2<as> Yes.
05:37.56as2I really hate my ISP.
05:38.02TomWsorphin: I thought that you lived in the state of Missouri?
05:38.39as2Any idea whats wrong Tom?
05:38.45TomWsorphin: as in St Louis being the shipping point to the wild wide west abt 100 years ago?
05:39.05TomWas: you did the unlock of the flash, removed the +12, *then* checked to see that all sectors were in fact unlocked, right?
05:39.24as2Tim unprotected for me, Ive checked, theyre all 0.
05:39.25sorphinTomW: yes, i do
05:39.41sorphinthat has squat to do w/ mules
05:40.54TomWsorphin: http://srd.yahoo.com/S=2766679:WS1/R=1/K=+Missouri+mule/H=0/T=1045892423/F=f8fc27203d34f530d085cc212c604799/*http://www.supeline.com/missmule.html
05:41.10as2The tux screen gets as far as telling me 'reading 0 31908' but nothing happens.
05:41.13TomWsorphin: http://srd.yahoo.com/S=2766679:WS1/R=3/K=+Missouri+mule/H=0/T=1045892423/F=fbcda42cdbec3703569f9b33ca643c90/*http://www.mid-mo.net/bigmuddy/mulea.html
05:41.33sorphinTomW: those are nice i'm sure, but i'm at a text console w/ no c&p :P
05:42.34TomWsorphin:  Type "Missouri Mule" into google and see how references you get back...
05:43.09sorphinTomW: tell me how that matters *now*.. this isn't 100 years ago, you're the only person i've *ever* heard reference missouri and mule :P you're showing your age :P
05:43.21TomWas: "reading 0 31908"?  let me look at my webpage for the inferno stuff, I need a refresher.
05:43.53as2For some reason rdp is breaking before any data is sent over the line.
05:43.55TomWsorphin: whatever, they seem to be famous anyhow.
05:44.42sorphinTomW: that's nice :P
05:44.49sorphinback to the original point
05:45.02as2I'll try again at 9600, maybe thats it.
05:45.08TomWsorphin: BTW, the "Missouri Mule" is the offical state emblem of the state of Missouri.
05:45.15sorphinumm
05:45.18sorphinno it's not
05:45.23TomWyou want a URL?
05:45.29sorphinlast i checked
05:45.32sorphinit's a Bear :P
05:46.00TomWummm, you have some state legislation that seems to think otherwise.
05:46.11TomWhttp://www.house.state.mo.us/bills95/bills95/HB84.htm
05:46.14sorphinTomW: um.. the politicians are worthless
05:46.24sorphinand irrelevant to the original topic
05:46.31TomWok
05:46.37sorphinthe only advantage a T1 has over me, is recovery time if there's a failure
05:46.38sorphin:P
05:46.55sorphini know this, since i work for a major carrier :P
05:47.59TomWwell, all I can say is that we have DSL service at three sites, by three different carriers, and although it is mostly speedy, it does get bogged.
05:48.26sorphinmine's never been bogged, never went down
05:48.45sorphinand you can have as many carriers as you want
05:48.54sorphinbut if the copper you run on is garbage
05:49.08sorphinand the owner of the dslam doesn't know what they're doing
05:49.12TomWas2: did you see this page of mine? http://www.openhardware.net/TuxScreen/FlashUnlock.html
05:49.14sorphinyou'll be congested :P
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05:49.31[sorphin]TomW: :P
05:49.56as2Ive been using that and, http://www.tuxscreen.net/wiki/view/InfernoRemote as a guide.
05:50.33as2Everything is normal, up until the copy command not actually doing any copying.
05:51.04TomWwhatever, I don't get involved with DSL at that level, the carriers tell us that it is a shared resource, they burst between customers so we will see intermittant delays while they are sharing the backbone to other customers.  Overall, it does beat having a cable modem or dialup.
05:51.26TomWas2: Yes!  I had a similar problme.
05:51.46[sorphin]TomW: then they're crap carriers who are oversubscribing all their crap :P
05:52.21[sorphin]cable is shared bandwidth, dsl isn't that's why cable slows down when more ppl use it and dsl shouldn't.. but anyways..
05:53.15TomWas2: that issue was *where* the "c D!tuxscreen-blob F!all" looked for the filename.  Try fully quailifying the path to the blob, like "c D!/home/tom/inferno-stuff/tuxscreen-blob F!all".
05:54.22as2Hmm.  Its the root directory of the inferno install, and I'm in windows.
05:54.32as2D!c:\blah will work?
05:54.55TomWsorphin: agreed, money is tight and in PA, we have a Title 19 or such that is forcing the carriers to deploy broadband access equally between: urban, suburban and rural areas.  I would imagine that they are spending a lot of money for cabling, etc.
05:55.48TomWas2: yes, it will take a path, I am pretty sure of that.  otherwise, it looks into the inferno directory where you installed the binary.  Let me double check on that default location....
05:56.50as2Its odd becuase its finding the file, or it tells me it cant.
05:57.28TomWas2: I run Inferno via a script, it is located in /home/tom/Inferno and is called RunInferno.sh
05:57.51as2Hmm.
05:58.11TomWas2: when I launch the script, I did it via a KDE desktop "link to application" which made that dir the default for the app (/home/tom/inferno)
05:58.34TomWas2: the blob image is located in that dir (/home/tom/inferno).
05:59.11TomWas2: IIRC, if it cannot find the "c D!tuxscreen-blob F!all" image file, inferno did tell me about not finding the file.
05:59.21TomWas2: is that the case you are having?
05:59.31as2This is telling me it cant find a file if it cant.
06:00.02as2Ive got blob in the root directory of inferno, and I dont get that error, it just doesnt copy any bytes.
06:00.10TomWok, so what happens when you add the path to the image?  does it complain then?
06:00.29as2So far I cant make a path it likes.
06:00.52TomWok, we got it that far, so the inferno is responsive up to then, but it dies in the actuall burning process.
06:01.18TomWbtw, you only get one chance to install blob.  if it fails to install it, you are dead.
06:01.20as2It looks to me like sboot is waiting for data to burn, but never gets any.
06:01.42as2If it craps up, I'll mess about with jtag till it works again.
06:02.20as2I'll try saving part of the current flash.
06:02.37TomWas2: AHA!  that fucking inferno is a shit program!  I remember now!  The damned thing would install multiple copies of itself if did something the wrong way.  Each freaking copy would latch onto the serial port and clobber each other.  
06:03.03as2Hmmm.
06:03.13TomWit was noticable during the burn process.  try a "ps ax | grep -i inferno" and see how copies are running.
06:04.23as2Hmm.  I'm in windows but I dont see multiple copies of anything.
06:04.34TomWit happen, IIRC, if I hit Ctrl-C, then the current inferno would disappear from the desktop, but would still be in the process stack and still running.  the Ctrl-C would only remove the visible part of inferno.
06:05.00as2Now thats interesting, I have hit control c, and it did vanish.
06:05.55TomWopps, I don't use winboze here for exactly that reason. I used winbloze for a number of years, until 6 years ago when I discovered linux.  Since about 4 years ago, I only run linux here unless I absolutely have to run vmware to do something from windoze.
06:06.45TomWsorphin: my apologies if I offended you over the Missouri Mule refernce.  :(
06:08.11TomWas2: seeing that Tim no longer has the JTAG dongles, I suppose that you don't have one either?
06:08.44TomWas2: I am curious, why don't you throw together a linux box to use?
06:08.58as2I'm using jtag for several projects currently, needing one for this would be bordering on the bizare.
06:09.15as2Its not the same pinout, but I can make one if needed.
06:09.51as2I'm actually after a strongarm system I can code asm for, I'm a bit out of practice.
06:09.59TomWWhen I ordered my third Tux, I bought one of Tim's dongles.  Just in case...
06:11.23TomWas2: yeah, the Tux was a great confidence builder for me, it also showed me "how it is done".  I did some design work with the 68EZ328 processor and embedded uClinux into them, but was looking for something with higher speed.  I did not want to go the X86 route.
06:11.48TomWas2: the stuff I design is very power consumption sensitve.
06:13.03as2Cool.
06:13.10TomWand faced with the screwball segmentation register stuff with the X86, I never thought that that was an elegant solution.  I liked the solution Motoroala came up with in their 68K series, but their stuff is too slow.
06:13.49TomWThe ARM processors offered the best of both: speed + elegance.
06:15.00TomWas2: I don't have any manuals  / tutorials on ARM assembler, but what I have gleaned from reading Russell King and Nicolas Petri's code, it is a very powerfull language!
06:15.10as2The last ARM CPU I coded asm for ran at 25MHz.
06:15.16sorphinTomW: nah, but we're not a buncha jackasses :P
06:15.17TomWeasy to say a lot in a single statement.
06:15.43TomWsorphin: that inference was not intended.
06:16.02as2Compaired to x86 you get a mov an arthithmatic instructioh and a barrel shift in 1 op/clock.
06:16.21TomWsorphin: just that I was suggesting that y'all were nothing but a bunch of backwoods hicks...  :D
06:16.34sorphinTomW: i'm no where near backwoods, nor a hick
06:16.41TomWLOL
06:16.53sorphinmy gf is maybe, she's in lebanon, MO, i'm however a city boy :P
06:17.20sorphinTomW: anyways, hopefully you'll get the simms tomorrow :P or atleast monday
06:17.30TomW"you know that you're from PA if your three main spices are: salt, pepper and Hienz Ketchup".
06:18.01TomWsorphin: I grew up on a dairy farm.
06:18.01as2In england you just add brown sauce to the list.
06:18.20TomWas2: that's right, you are in England, right?
06:18.28as2Oh yes.
06:19.09TomWas2: well then, why don't you just swim over this weekend and we'll get that Tux flashed for you?  I am not that far from the East Coast (< 100 miles).
06:19.14TomWheh
06:19.18sorphinTomW: yeah, as2 is a pomm
06:20.16as2I'm not sure I have enough lard.
06:20.55TomWI have to go out this morning about 2 AM to work on the firewall at the ISP.  I deleted the firewall perl script I built for it a few months ago when I set him up with linux.  Unfortunately I had no backup of that script and had a lot written into the firewall at that time.
06:21.23TomWsometimes, life sux.
06:21.57TomWI shouldn't complain, he lets me do what I want with his stuff.
06:22.24TomWsorphin: I need to get rid of the WinNT server that is handling the PRI circuit.
06:22.43TomWsorphin: you know anything about PRI?
06:23.24sorphinTomW: you mean besides the fact that it's about a zillion BRI's in one big pipe and is faster than a T1? :P
06:23.35sorphinwell, can be i should say
06:24.35TomWWe have a RS2000 PRI card (pci slot) that was made by Ariel.  Before they went out of business, they made a beta port of drivers for the card that ran under RedHat 6.1
06:24.38sorphinwtf would you have a winnt server handling a PRI for, a pri just hooks into a proper csu
06:24.45TomWWe have four of these cards.
06:24.46sorphinahh
06:25.00sorphinscary
06:25.20TomWAs he tells me, the cost of these cards is about $8K per at todays prices.
06:25.55TomWWe have a CAT-5 cable that runs from the CSU over to our machine with the PRI card installed into it.  
06:26.15TomWas far as I can tell, it is nothing more that a 24 channel ISDN hookup of some kind.
06:26.16TomW?
06:26.26TomWs/that/than/
06:26.43sorphinwell...
06:27.31sorphinit is
06:27.44sorphinbut you can't hook it up to any old ISDN modem
06:27.45as2Readiong works fine, writing is still frelled.
06:27.55as2I might give up on this today.
06:28.17TomWI have searched google, etc., but there is little mention of the Ariel PRI card except in a 4 year old press release that RedHat was doing some support for the card.
06:28.25sorphinnod
06:28.34sorphinwell, i can't help you w/ those cards
06:28.52TomWI have RedHat 7.0, maybe they have some proprietary driver for it in there?
06:29.16sorphini dunno
06:29.18TomWsorphin: you understand the setup that I am dealing with though, right?
06:29.37sorphinyeah, and i also know that you shouldn't need a csu and that pri card
06:29.40TomWthe PRI circuit on the CAT-5 hookiup.
06:30.00sorphinfyi
06:30.02sorphin23 traffic channels and one signalling channels (T1, 23B+D - 1.544Mbps)
06:30.10TomWright
06:30.43TomWWe have an AdTran unit (manufacturer is AdTran) that our T1 data circuit is on.
06:30.53sorphinyou'd honestly do better selling those $8k/per  cards
06:31.02TomWthat unit acts as a gateway for our two subnets.
06:31.12sorphinand getting something proper.. hell, you'd get something for cheaper than 8k
06:31.29TomWsorphin: suggestions as to what?
06:31.48sorphinhold
06:32.25TomWThe PRI card appears to be a massive modem of some kind. It is two full length cards tacked together that plugs into a single pci slot.
06:33.39TomWI suspect that the ISDN ciruit only delivers the audio portion of the dialup call, then the PRI takes the circuits and applies the individual audio channels to a seperate DSP modem.
06:33.39sorphinTomW: usually people run a PRI into an AS5200/5300 for breakout for internal modem banks in the AS
06:34.17sorphinor a cisco 3600
06:34.31TomWright, that makes sense.  That is what I suspect that this RS2000 card is: 24 / 23 modems on a massive plugin card.
06:35.24sorphinheh
06:35.36TomWNormally, don't they run the CSU into the modem banks and then via ethernet to the router?
06:36.44TomWbecause it looks as if they made the PC the modem banks and used windoze NT to run the modems, via the NT network layer, into the machines ethernet card to the router.
06:36.58sorphinok, say you have an AS5200
06:37.01TomWdoes that sound right?
06:37.05TomWk
06:37.08sorphinthe pri plugs into it
06:37.20TomWfrom the CSU?
06:37.22sorphinpeople dial in over that pri into the modem banks
06:37.26sorphinyes
06:37.38TomWthe AS5200 is the modem banks?
06:37.42sorphinthe 5300 ethers to the router
06:37.47sorphinAS = Access Server
06:38.04sorphinit has 24 modems on a big card that goes in the back
06:38.17sorphinabove the PRI card
06:38.33TomWok, so with the RS2000 card, it is our "access server".
06:38.50kergothTomW: thats correct. the card is essentially an assload of modems
06:38.58TomWk
06:38.59TomW:(
06:39.03TomWshit
06:39.06kergothI know little about PRI, but i work for a company that sells such cards
06:39.17kergoth(or did, before selling that product to another company)
06:39.24TomWkergoth: cost for 23 lines?
06:39.53TomWwe really really need to get rid of that NT box!  
06:40.14kergothdont know offhand.. check with .. Patton Electronics
06:40.16sorphinTomW: you don't wanna drop the PRI
06:40.20kergoththey are who we sold the cards to
06:40.23sorphini know that :P
06:41.06TomWthat peice of crap o/s is a bitch to setup and get the RS2000 running!  We lost the card one day, windoze decided it wasn't there and spent hours rebooting / installing / rebooting before it mysteriously started to work again!
06:41.22kergothhah, i'm not surprised
06:41.37TomWit is the weakest link in our system!
06:41.43sorphinTomW: that's why you don't use a pc to do a network device's job :P
06:42.07TomWyeah, but he bought the isp from some butthead that didn't know better.
06:42.12kergothheh
06:42.19kergotha BSD or linux can do a network device's job just fine
06:42.28kergothas long as you have the expertise in house to maintain them
06:42.33kergothNT.. /me shudders
06:43.14TomWthat guy was running win 3.51 and switched to 4.0 and had loads of probs with system lockups / crashes.  took his customer list down from 300+ accounts to less than 40 in 6 months.  Then he bailed.
06:43.23sorphinkergoth: think that's bad? the isp i used to run, the owners were gonna use linux, then some warez friend of theirs got them on Unixware.. i got them back on linux once they realized how shitty unixware was
06:43.33kergothsorphin: unixware? egad man
06:43.37TomWhah!
06:43.52kergoththat shit uses *ttymon* for gods sake
06:43.58kergothits one big hack
06:44.00kergothugh
06:44.09sorphinkergoth: what's worse
06:44.11kergothsupporting that was an absolute nightmare
06:44.14sorphinoriginally they used DigiBoards :P
06:44.17kergothdont get me started on 'caldera openunix'
06:44.20TomWthis guy is amazed to watch me work the linux box and get stuff accomplished.  This is his first intro to linux.
06:44.24kergothfucking unixware with linux binary compatibility
06:44.31kergothwhat a fucking mess
06:45.02sorphinkergoth: then we switched to PortMaster 3's and linux (i got them switched over to the proper stuff linux/PM, when i took over as the sysadmin)
06:45.16TomWWell, I got a copy of RedHat 6.2, the beta drivers for the RS2000 PRI card, I should toss together a box and see how bad / good it is...
06:45.38kergothsorphin: and promptly breathed a sigh of relief, no doubt
06:46.05kergothi wish caldera would hurry up and die already
06:46.20kergoththeir linuxes sucked, then they buy a company whose unixes suck (though openserver _is_ reliable)
06:46.31kergothand they combine them into this really sucky combination of the two
06:46.32kergothits horrid
06:47.06sorphinkergoth: yeah, esp when we ditched the digi ;)
06:47.18kergothbah
06:47.21kergoth:)
06:48.26TomWwell kiddies, time to go make magic happen.  Time to build the firewall.
06:48.33TomWlater
06:48.48sorphinkergoth: i sentence you to work at digi till you're as old as moses :P
06:48.59kergothsorphin: thats just mean
06:49.10kergothsorphin: just let me die instead
06:50.04sorphinkergoth: nah, that's the easy way out ;)
06:50.59MonMotha6openhardware.net still down?
06:51.19kergothdoesnt look like it, i just checked a second ago mysefl
06:51.21kergothibot: logs
06:51.22http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/, or stats http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz
06:51.34MonMotha6hum, the routing is odd
06:51.39MonMotha6the route is different than a few days ago
06:51.43MonMotha6and still dies fairly far in
06:51.54MonMotha6right now I'm hopping three ISPs, which is pretty rare for me
06:52.03MonMotha6actually 4
06:52.25sorphinMonMotha6: fyi
06:52.25MonMotha6ATDN -> GBLX -> ChoiceOne -> "pardos.net"
06:52.26MonMotha6then it dies
06:52.29sorphinit's a diff isp now
06:52.36MonMotha6sorphin: ah, that would explain the route change
06:52.42sorphinas tomw said
06:52.45MonMotha6used to route through att
06:52.50sorphinhis isp friend let him put his box at the isp
06:53.05MonMotha6ah
06:53.48MonMotha6now that's not something you see every day on the internet
06:53.51MonMotha6ATM -> Token Ring
06:53.58sorphineh?
06:54.07MonMotha616  atm6-14-1022-har-ext-cisco.choiceone.net (64.65.210.250)  66.144 ms  93.658 ms  63.673 ms
06:54.08MonMotha617  tr-5-1005-hrbg-shasta.choiceone.net (64.65.210.110)  61.355 ms  65.309 ms  61.996 ms
06:54.12MonMotha6I assume tr is token ring
06:54.23sorphini doubt it
06:54.39MonMotha6what else would it be?
06:54.41sorphinbtw, that shasta
06:54.43sorphinis nortel
06:54.58MonMotha6ok...
06:55.16MonMotha6doesn't nortel make gear for pretty much anything you can think of, including token ring?
06:55.26sorphinwell
06:55.32sorphina shasta isn't for tokenring ;p
06:55.37MonMotha6the ATM makes sense
06:55.44sorphinit's a very large box
06:55.52sorphinfor secure ip tunneling
06:55.52MonMotha6and continuing th enaming scheme (the next hop is a "host"), tr would be a media type
06:56.24MonMotha6eh, who knows
06:56.34sorphinand pos's
06:56.46sorphinbet you don't know what pos in a network hostname means :P
06:57.04MonMotha6crummy old P100 /w 6 ethernet cards a async PPP link, and another link running over the pport (if I wanted it to)
06:57.15MonMotha6sorphin: doesn't that mean it's a link left over from the early 1900s and is a piece of shit?
06:57.17MonMotha6:)
06:57.21sorphinno
06:57.27sorphinit's fiber
06:57.53MonMotha6i see...
06:59.45MonMotha6how the heck does ATM become a DS3?
06:59.54sorphinumm
06:59.59sorphinbecause ATM is just a protocol
07:00.09MonMotha6I've never seen ATM run over DS3s
07:00.10sorphinit still needs a physical medium to go over (layer 1)
07:00.12sorphinumm
07:00.15sorphinthen you're blind
07:00.27MonMotha6then again, I've only seen two DS3s in use
07:00.40MonMotha6I believe they had PPP running on them or something like that
07:00.42sorphinwe have atm over anything from T1's up to oc3s
07:01.12MonMotha6I don't do much telco stuff...
07:01.17sorphinwe have 2 diverse ds3's leaving out campus at work going out to the IDN
07:01.20MonMotha6mostly ethernet, and I've used token ring
07:01.22sorphinwell
07:01.33MonMotha6true
07:01.52MonMotha6I've also seen people doing odd things with modems in leased line mode
07:02.07sorphinwe have an oc3 going from the lab in building C to 3rd floor, building B, in the lil office i'm in
07:02.14sorphinbetween a cisco 7513 and a cisco 7000
07:02.27sorphindoing ATM over sonet
07:02.29sorphinerm
07:02.33sorphinwell, packet over sonet
07:03.15sorphinthe cards are atm interfaces tho.. STM-1's (155Mbit)
07:03.20sorphinmulti mode fiber
07:03.22MonMotha6I've used quite a few T1s, but never had to configure them (either physical line characteristics or the layer 2 protocol) myself
07:04.07MonMotha6heh
07:04.17MonMotha6you'd be appalled at a T1 I just rippedo ut
07:04.23sorphinwell, before i was in the department i'm in now
07:04.30sorphini was an install tech
07:04.35MonMotha6was a frac T1 shared between like 16 sites
07:04.41MonMotha6I have no idea how they managed that
07:04.57sorphinMonMotha6: heh, the group i support has seen worse than taht, i assure you
07:05.11MonMotha6the inside line had 5 gallon paint buckets stacked onit, and went by at least 4 big, old, transformers
07:05.15sorphintry 64k links between sites, into other sites w/ T1s
07:05.15MonMotha6amazing it worked at all
07:05.21MonMotha6ISDN is AMAZINGLY rebust
07:05.28sorphinwell duh
07:05.37sorphinISDN can also go over 35k feet
07:06.01as2Thats a lot of toes.
07:06.41sorphin~lart as2
07:07.15MonMotha6sorphin: the pathetic thing is, this line had layer 3 packet loss over over 90% and the effective bandwidth on a TCP stream to the other end was about 10kbit max
07:07.26sorphinlovely
07:07.28MonMotha6a 28.8 dialup would have been faster
07:07.31sorphinha
07:07.39sorphini was just gonna say, might as well use a 28.8 dialup
07:07.47MonMotha6I literally downloaded something at .5kB/sec
07:07.57MonMotha6we have since replaced that line
07:08.04sorphinwanna hear something scary? :P
07:08.14sorphinthose 3 t3's we got
07:08.15MonMotha6sure...
07:08.39sorphinone died last weekend, and the csu for the other died this past week, so the whole campus got routed into a single T1
07:08.49MonMotha6hah
07:08.54sorphinw/ a minimum of 300ms on a traceroute
07:09.16sorphineverything was fine w/in 15 mins
07:09.26MonMotha6heh
07:09.52sorphingotta love being able to reroute
07:09.57MonMotha6yep
07:10.05sorphinlesse
07:10.12sorphinfrom claudia (that box you saw in here earlier)
07:10.16sorphinto my home network
07:10.53sorphini go fast ether to hssi to GigE to pos through a few vlans, into GigE into Alternet
07:11.31sorphininto sprint crap which isn't labeled properly
07:11.34sorphininto sbc into me
07:11.40MonMotha6heh
07:11.45MonMotha6our current T1 goes to Sprintlink
07:12.02sorphinat the isp, ours used to
07:12.04MonMotha6it works fairly well, but Sprint's support (as in we call up and askt hem to do something; it never gets done) sucks
07:12.16sorphinheh, we never had that prob
07:12.29sorphinwe went from us (cybergate) to starnet.net to sprint
07:12.39sorphinour t1 -> 2 t3s -> sprint
07:12.41MonMotha6you're an ISP though
07:12.47MonMotha6a rather large one at that
07:12.52sorphinnono
07:13.01sorphinthis was back at the isp i ran :P
07:13.04sorphin1 t1
07:13.06MonMotha6oh
07:13.08sorphinback in 95-96
07:13.11MonMotha6well, sprint tends to ignore us
07:13.17sorphinwe didn't talk to sprint
07:13.18MonMotha6they won't even freakin delegate reverse DNS to us
07:13.19sorphinstarnet did
07:13.23MonMotha6so none of our IPs reverse
07:13.29sorphinstarnet took care of EVERYTHING for us
07:13.34sorphin15k/year
07:13.44MonMotha6eh, we have a contract directly with sprint
07:13.54sorphinever heard of Washington University in st louis?
07:14.04MonMotha6yeah
07:14.13sorphinthe former owner of starnet
07:14.16sorphinwas their network guy
07:14.27sorphinnice guy, very sharp
07:14.44sorphinwe were the 1st fully digital isp
07:14.52sorphinif you used a modem to get to us
07:14.57sorphinyou were only analog from you to the CO
07:15.09sorphinfrom the CO to us and out from us to the net was all digital
07:15.20sorphinincoming from bell was ISDN, and a T1 out
07:15.26MonMotha6I will say that I do get good dialup connections to dialsprint
07:15.34MonMotha653333 or occassionally 52000bps
07:15.34sorphinthe gateway was a cisco 4500
07:15.50MonMotha6there's fiber at my street
07:15.55sorphini can't dialup that high
07:16.00sorphini'm 16k from the CO
07:16.13sorphinhence why i'm on a remote dslam for my dsl
07:16.29MonMotha6category 5 from the street to my house, CAT5 frmo the patch panel directly to an RJ11 plugged in to the modem
07:16.40MonMotha6it's probably only on copper for maybe 50 feet
07:16.48sorphinnod
07:17.11MonMotha6problem is, that means I can't get DSL (though why they can't just run fiber to my house is beyond me)
07:17.22MonMotha6fortunately cable modems here are OK
07:17.22sorphincost
07:17.23MonMotha6a bit unstable in the winter though
07:17.24MonMotha6true
07:17.32sorphinfiber isn't cheap to drop
07:17.38sorphinif it were
07:17.42MonMotha6for some odd reason, whenever it's cold and wet, the cable modem goes nuts and randomly drops the line
07:17.42sorphini wouldn't even be using dsl
07:17.54sorphini'd run fiber from my catalyst to someone
07:17.57MonMotha6probably affects the long runs of coax badly
07:18.09sorphinsince it has 2 100baseFX fiber ports that can each run for 1.25 miles
07:18.25sorphinand yes, it does
07:18.37MonMotha6I've thought about asking the telco for some "alarm circuits" and seeing what I can run over them
07:18.42MonMotha6between me and some frients
07:18.51MonMotha6all get together and get a nice fast line and split the cost
07:19.04sorphinwell
07:19.13MonMotha6think I could get ethernet running over them? probably not if it runs through the CO at all
07:19.18sorphinno
07:19.25MonMotha6and since there's fiber at my street, they probably wont' even do it
07:19.28sorphinSDSL or a T1 maybe
07:19.45MonMotha6I've got a cisco with a 155 ATM UTP port
07:19.48MonMotha6probably not though
07:19.51sorphinumm
07:19.54sorphinyou forget something
07:20.00sorphinstreet copper
07:20.11MonMotha6heh, problem is we LACK street copper :)
07:20.13sorphinis at best, old 24-26 gauge
07:20.26sorphinand exposed to everything
07:20.57MonMotha6yeah
07:21.31sorphinanyways, i'm going to bed in a few
07:21.47MonMotha6heh
07:21.51MonMotha6I probably should too
07:21.52MonMotha6almost 2:30-
07:22.06sorphinMonMotha6: quit abusing your pport :P
07:23.47sorphinibot: cluebat MonMotha6
07:23.48ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps MonMotha6.
07:23.54MonMotha6heh
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17:19.02fileSIMMs for webpal for sale!!!
17:19.44filechouimat: what are the SDRAM prices like in Quebec?
17:22.39TheMasterMind1for how much
17:23.18file128MB
17:23.31fileI want 256MB... but that would cost me too much
17:30.56GPSFan_hi file: how much?
17:33.28fileGPSFan_: How much do you want? I've got 32MB, 8MB, and 4MB
17:34.26GPSFan_file: how much are you selling 32M EDO 72 pin simms for?
17:34.52fileGPSFan_: I reserved one for chouimat, but there's one left... make an offer :)
17:34.57fileGPSFan_: I will also accept trades
17:35.59GPSFan_file: probably would need more than one, and shipping on just one might be more than the simm is worth. esp from CA.
17:36.39fileGPSFan_: I've got 8's and 4's too!
17:36.48file32MB is not enough
17:37.35fileI'll also throw in a 256MB PC133 DIMM! it's bad... but if you install badram on the system using it it'll work
17:38.15fileGPSFan_: It wouldn't cost that much to ship, maybe like $2.90 CAD
17:40.10GPSFan_file: thanks, but I have plenty of good PC133 dimms, and enough webpal memory for the moment, I was thinking of a larger project that will need 10+ 32M simms.
17:40.18fileoh ic
17:40.40filecan't you take pity on me? I'm surviving with 32MB of RAM... on my primary machine...
17:41.04GPSFan_file: what OS?
17:41.13fileGPSFan_: Windows 2000
17:41.34file62MB memory usage right now...
17:41.48GPSFan_file: I'm surprised win2k would even run in 32M
17:41.57fileGPSFan_: but it does, but it does
17:42.30fileGPSFan_: barely.
17:42.58GPSFan_file: ok, and I ran win95OSR2 on a 25MHz 486 with 4M DRAM and a 80M HDD once, it ran but was not fun.
17:43.17fileGPSFan_: so you know how I'm suffering!
17:43.37GPSFan_file: what tyoe of memory does your MB use?
17:43.54fileGPSFan_: PC66-PC133 DIMMs, 168 pin
17:44.13fileI can set my memory frequency to whatever I want... regardless of FSB :)
17:46.30GPSFan_file: how much do you want to spend (dont say $0.00 or anything near it)?
17:46.51fileGPSFan_: well, I can get 128MB for $21 CAD
17:47.06GPSFan_shipped?
17:47.10fileyes
17:47.33GPSFan_file: that's a good price, go for it.
17:47.43fileGPSFan_: it's manufacturers price
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18:40.28chouimatfile: hi
18:40.41filechouimat: hi
19:21.43*** join/#elinux TimRiker (timr@rikers.org)
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19:36.24filehi Tim
19:36.57kergothyo TimRiker
19:37.00kergothsup file
19:37.09filenothin'
19:37.11fileu?
19:38.16kergothnot much, working on projects, doing laundry, cleanin up my house
19:40.44fileic
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20:03.02*** join/#elinux ibot (ibot@rikers.org)
20:03.02*** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || debian-handheld list is up.
20:03.02*** mode/#eLinux [+o ibot] by ChanServ
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20:13.29fontenotanyone get openssh to compile in recent buildroot-tux ?
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20:41.42sorphinumm
20:41.43sorphincute
20:41.45sorphineveryone on the network had a nickname collision
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21:37.14MonMotha6sorphin: gotta love freenode
21:41.55sorphinMonMotha6: not
22:24.12sorphinkergoth: re
22:24.18kergothyo
22:24.19kergothwhats goni on
22:24.21kergothgoin
22:24.26sorphinfighting w/ vnc
22:24.32kergothah
22:24.34kergothwinning?
22:25.01sorphinwell, it won the 1st 2 rounds, i'm winning atm, so we'll see
22:25.28kergothheh
22:26.17sorphindamn server kept core'ing
22:26.22sorphinso building my own atm
22:26.55sorphinit won the 2nd round by fighting me on the compile, but i'm beating it now
22:34.04ade|liteuse the chair
22:35.02sorphinheh
22:35.05sorphini beat it!
22:35.07sorphinmuhahahahahah
22:35.57ade|litesorphin is now the vnc world champion
22:36.14ade|litecome forth to collect your belt
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22:44.52sorphinade|desk: wouldn't take much
22:45.07sorphinade|lite: wouldn't take much, just line it w/ something from digi :P
22:45.17kergothhah, no kidding. you can have it
22:45.31kergoththen
22:45.38sorphinibot: kergoth
22:45.39kergoth is probably at kergoth@handhelds.org, or that openzaurus guy
22:45.42sorphinbah
22:45.48kergothheh
22:45.54sorphinibot: kergoth is also the resident digiwhore.
22:45.55sorphin: cannot alter locked factoids
22:45.55sorphin: parse error: dunno what the heck you're talking about
22:45.59kergoth:)
22:46.01sorphinoh brother
22:46.06sorphinibot: unlock kergoth
22:46.37sorphinibot: digiwhore is see kergoth
22:46.38sorphin: okay
22:46.43sorphinibot: digiwhore
22:46.43well, digiwhore is see kergoth
22:46.55sorphinibot: forget digiwhore
22:46.56sorphin: i forgot digiwhore
22:47.03sorphinibot: digiwhore is <REPLY> see kergoth
22:47.04sorphin: okay
22:47.07sorphinibot: digiwhore
22:47.08i heard kergoth is at kergoth@handhelds.org, or that openzaurus guy
22:47.11kergothheh
22:47.17sorphinibot: die
22:47.18ACTION takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.
22:47.26sorphinibot: forget digiwhore
22:47.26sorphin: i forgot digiwhore
22:47.33sorphinkergoth: you're no fun
22:49.19sorphinibot: ignore kergoth
22:49.20sorphin: I give up, what is it?
22:49.27sorphincheap bot
22:49.42kergothibot: kill sorphin
22:49.44ACTION slits sorphin's throat
22:49.47sorphinibot: kill ulyx
22:49.48ACTION slits ulyx's throat
22:50.01sorphin~lart kergoth for being a digiwhore
22:50.13kergothouch
22:50.17sorphinheh
22:50.21sorphinonly ulyx got it right
22:52.11fontenotwell I just bought the last two webpals that surpluscomputers had in stock
22:52.19fontenotthey are both $7.95 no-modem ones
22:52.48filefontenot: ic ic
22:52.57filefontenot: I've got a 32MB SIMM for sale...
22:53.01filefontenot: also 8MB and 4MB...
22:53.38fontenotfile: well I may be talking to you then (if you still have them when I get around to it - trying to spend time on the gentoo arm port right now)
22:53.59fontenotfile: you are in Canada right?
22:54.04filefontenot: well I've got 1 32MB SIMM left, but tons of 4MB and 8MB - yes
22:54.15filemy entire desk is covered with SIMMs
22:54.27fontenotfile: does the webpal see the whole 32MB ?
22:54.34fontenotare those usable in the tux?
22:54.37filefontenot: I don't have a webpal :)
22:54.40fileso I dunno
22:54.45fontenotheh ic
22:54.54fontenotare they 2k refresh?
22:55.02filedamned if I know
22:55.24file32MB EDO 72PIN SIMM
22:56.13filethat's all it says :\
22:56.38fontenot:-)
22:56.41fontenottypical
22:56.46filehehe
22:57.27fileyour money goes towards helping me pay for memory for my workstation!
22:57.38fileand yes, I will accept a single DIMM stick for all 9 SIMMs.
22:58.18fontenotsingle dimm of what type?
22:58.32fileSDRAM... PC66, PC100, PC133
22:58.32fontenotSDRAM ?
22:58.40fontenotooooh we may be able to make a deal then
22:59.02fileuh huh
22:59.04fontenotlol shipping will probably be horrendousn tho
22:59.18fileyou'd be surprised
22:59.49fontenotI will have to find what I have
22:59.49fileI don't care... I can't stand only having 32MB of RAM in my main computer
22:59.54fileIT'S NOT ENOUGH!!!!
23:00.04fontenotwow I can barely live with 32MB in my ipaq
23:00.08ade|litesorry file
23:00.34fileI can also throw in a bad 256MB PC133 SDRAM stick, just install badram on the system it'll be on.. and it'll work fine
23:01.14fontenotwow life is so much better since I got my dsl speed doubled
23:01.27filefontenot: I bet
23:01.42fontenoti went from 384 down to 768
23:01.47file:)
23:02.09fileI'm happy with 1.4Mbps (burstable to 2Mbps)
23:02.10ade|lite10mbit aint enough
23:02.12fontenotbut my neighbor with his open wifi AP has cable  :-D
23:02.19filehehe
23:02.40fontenotI can get 209kB/s on that
23:02.41filefontenot: anyway, if you come to a decision - just send me a private message anytime... I'll see it eventually
23:02.50fontenotfile: OK
23:03.27fontenotgonna go open the webpal boxes now and see if there's anything in them - they are heavy enough
23:03.39filehehe
23:28.10sorphinfontenot: umm you went from 384 DOWN to 768 ?
23:32.13ade|litedownload speed compared with upload
23:32.20ade|liteperhaps
23:40.54sorphinade|desk: not likely, i was correcting him, cuz he upped his download speed from 384 to 768 ;p
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23:49.24fontenotsorphin: sorry - I meant from 384 download to 768 download - upload did not change at 128
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