irclog2html for #elinux on 20030403

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00:19.19chouimatmmmmm Czechvar
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00:55.20cosmic_awaythat makes no sense
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02:56.37*** join/#elinux Speedy2 (johnny@max-fw-139.dallas.net)
02:56.48Speedy2~seen timriker
02:56.48timriker <~timr@66.147.151.194> was last seen on IRC in channel #elinux, 1d 23h 17m 33s ago, saying: 'agreed'.
02:57.44sorphinSpeedy2: didn't i suggest email? :P
02:57.55sorphintim's busy a lot
02:58.15chouimatsorphin: hi
02:58.53sorphinchouimat: lo
03:18.57sorphinkergoth: re
03:19.04kergothhey
03:19.10kergothi have opie on my c700 finally
03:20.11sorphincool
03:20.20sorphinkergoth: i tried the let the battery drain for 24 hours
03:20.22sorphinno change
03:20.32kergothhmm
03:20.35Speedy2??
03:21.25sorphinSpeedy2: nothing.. just email tim :-P
03:21.25kergothSpeedy2: we were fucking with trying to upgrade the kernel on the Z from userspace on the sharp rom while stuck witha  read only mtd driver
03:21.32kergothaka mmap() fun
03:21.46sorphinkergoth: if i was able to trash the flash
03:21.48Speedy2Yeah, that didn't work?
03:21.55sorphinthere's no way it was locked :P
03:22.01kergothwell no shit
03:22.02kergothheh
03:22.19Speedy2Why didn't it work? Is ROM space protected by the MMU?
03:22.41sorphinkergoth: i can't figure out how it miswrote the WHOLE flash, since i didn't even go outside of c0000's area
03:22.46kergothSpeedy2: afaik you 1) have to ensure theres voltage on the WE write enable on the flash chips, and 2) unlock each block
03:22.50kergothsorphin: yeah, i dont get it either
03:23.00kergothsorphin: maybe the existing mtd driver freaked at us fucking with it?
03:23.14Speedy2sorphin: Did you use the logical-->physical routines?
03:23.39sorphinSpeedy2: i can read the whole flash perfectly
03:23.51kergothyep, just the writes that ran into difficulty
03:23.52sorphinso i did the reverse instead of reading, i wrote to those points
03:24.02sorphinkergoth: can you handle dcc ?
03:24.15Speedy2sorphin: Well there's a pretty extensive procedure for writing to FlashROM parts (you have to enter a certain command mode, etc)
03:24.16kergothfraid not, shitty ass linksys 'router'
03:24.50sorphinSpeedy2: ya know
03:24.59sorphini feel stupid
03:25.04Speedy2??
03:25.12sorphinall the flash writing i do
03:25.19sorphinand i didn't think about that on the Z
03:25.27Speedy2What Flash writing stuff do you do?
03:25.54sorphinspeed mostly did on tivo proms and peecee flash
03:26.24Speedy2Anyway, the easiest way, bypassing MTD, is to write a simple driver that intercepts the "writes" to those locations and then runs through the proper sequences (0xAAAA command or whatever the hell it is)
03:26.42sorphini don't even know what the flash chips the Z uses are
03:26.47Speedy2You'd think by now they would have integrated all that shitass logic into the FlashROMs
03:26.51Speedy2I gave the data sheets to kergoth.
03:26.54Speedy2Ask him for them.
03:26.56sorphinheh
03:26.56kergothor just use a mtd driver that can write, modprobe it, and use it
03:27.02kergothheh
03:27.05Speedy2Fine, be "clever"
03:27.08kergothhehe
03:27.24kergoththat must be what sharp does with their windows usb updater
03:27.27sorphinkergoth: well, neither does me a shit bit of good right now :P
03:27.41kergothyes yes i know
03:27.41kergothheh
03:27.49Speedy2Oh, you trashed the bootloader?
03:28.08sorphinSpeedy2: let's say my next try is CF
03:28.10kergothwell, what we know is, it doesnt boot linux anymore
03:28.13kergothhh
03:28.13sorphinand i hope that works
03:28.16sorphinif not
03:28.20sorphini have a brick
03:28.21sorphin:P
03:28.27kergothif not, i bitch at sharp to get the jtag info released
03:28.31Speedy2Is it a 5000D or 55500?
03:28.34sorphin5500
03:28.39Speedy2I see.
03:29.05sorphinkergoth: who do i talk to, to sign whatever to get that doc you won't give up? :P (i want the whole damn thing :P )
03:29.07Speedy2There are alternatives still. They just aren't vey clear.
03:29.13Speedy2very clear.
03:29.40Speedy2What would have been enormously clever on Sharp's part, is if they allowed the SA to boot from CF directly.
03:29.49Speedy2That way a cooked unit still isn't really cooked.
03:30.13sorphinSpeedy2: well, this is sharp we're talking about
03:30.33sorphinSpeedy2: if sharp had any brains, they woulda already hired kergoth too :P
03:30.36Speedy2Yeah...like software controlled battery charging.
03:30.44Speedy2That's exceptionally stupid.
03:31.03sorphinyeah
03:32.48sorphinsomething tells me tho
03:32.58sorphinfrom when i looked at the dump i did of the flash before power off
03:33.06sorphinthe cf updater is prolly toasted too
03:35.08sorphinkergoth: you got those docs speedy2 was talking about on the Z flash?
03:35.27kergothyeah, let me figure out where i put them
03:35.41sorphini can't believe i didn't think of that
03:35.56sorphinevery flash i've poked at, i've had to beat up on w/ commands
03:36.02sorphinreading needs no command
03:36.06Speedy2Yup.
03:36.57sorphinkergoth had me distracted :P
03:37.10sorphini was so glad when i got it reading correctly everything
03:37.15sorphini just jumped into the writing :P
03:37.16kergothhah
03:37.58sorphinkergoth: find that doc ;)
03:46.03chouimat|tvsorphin: which doc?
03:46.26kergothchouimat|tv: flash chip specs for the 5500
03:49.36Speedy2I'd send to you, but it's not on this computer.
03:49.42chouimat|tvkergoth: ok
03:49.56chouimat|tvanyone got the 5000d one?
03:50.10Speedy2They're the same.
03:50.16Speedy2FlashROM is the same. It's the memory that's different.
03:50.21chouimat|tvok
03:56.00sorphinif anyone knows waht they are, i can dig up the doc if kergoth can't find his copy
03:56.26kergothits buried in a docs/ dir on one of my boxes, i just dont recall which
03:56.45chouimat|tvkergoth: find docs/ :)
03:57.40kergoth~lart chouimat|tv
04:00.38chouimat|tvkergoth: :)
05:01.12chouimat|Zzzzzniight
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05:35.18Speedy2Hey Tim!
05:35.21Speedy2I heard you're in Texas now.
05:35.35TimRikeryep. http://rikers.org/allen/
05:35.52Speedy2So, can I re-interest you in that Sun/Sony 20" monitor?
05:38.28Speedy2??
05:38.31Speedy2<-- in Texas
05:44.43TimRikerSpeedy2: too much stuff at the moment. probably not. sheesh, no basements here.
05:45.19Speedy2Are you sure?
05:45.32Speedy2It's a really purty monitor and I'd be willing to drop it off. Maybe trade?
05:45.41Speedy2Hell, if you have a Z5500, I'd take that off your hands...
05:46.36TimRikerping me in a few weeks when there are not so many boxes around. I have no idea where my z's are now.
05:46.45Speedy2Ok, will do.
05:49.10Speedy2Would you consider such a trade?
05:49.27Speedy2I need a car before I can consider dropping it off anyway
05:52.31Speedy2Alright, later all.
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14:58.10Mornmorning
14:58.59*** join/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130)
15:02.16Mornhi there
15:07.18GPSFanhi Morn: belated congrats on the new job...
15:07.34Mornthanks
15:07.37MornI'm so excited
15:07.48GPSFan;>)
15:07.57GPSFanwhen do you start?
15:08.01MornTuesday
15:08.05MornI'm moving this weekend
15:08.10MornI'm almost all packed up
15:08.19GPSFanmoving too?
15:08.28MornNot much left in my room except the TV/XBox and my desk, I'm on a laptop right now
15:08.37*** join/#elinux sieve (~klu5ter@12.148.134.9)
15:08.37Mornyes, moving about 2.5 hours north of where I live now
15:08.53GPSFanMass.?
15:08.57MornI spent a lot of time yesterday making sure I would have power/gas/phone and such
15:09.01Mornyes, Northampton, MA
15:09.13sievemorning all
15:09.14GPSFancool..
15:09.51MornIt will be neat having my own apartment for a change
15:09.59MornI've been living with friends for so long
15:10.40GPSFanhow about internet?
15:11.07MornTuesday I get cable and cable internet access
15:11.30GPSFanswell, nice to live where there is some infrastructure.
15:11.32MornI have my own cable modem so that should help
15:11.45Morntil then I have an AirCard
15:11.49Mornso I'll be able to use that
15:11.51GPSFanooww!
15:13.36Mornthe AirCard has been soooooo useful the last week
15:13.55Mornwhen I was stuck waiting on my car to be fixed and was just in a donut shop I could get email and even do a little work
15:14.11MornI changed the service to unlimited at least for the month
15:15.31sorphinMorn: allo jules
15:15.40Mornhi there
15:15.42Mornhow goes?
15:16.06sorphineh.. ssdd as far as work, just got here tho, but it's pretty predictable
15:17.02sorphinstill waiting on *kergoth* to find the docs i need :P
15:17.45Morndoh
15:18.25GPSFanmorning dan..
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15:25.32prpplaguemorning guys
15:30.47sorphinGPSFan: morning ken
15:30.49sorphinprpplague: lo bitch
15:32.24prpplaguemorning
15:32.58GPSFanhi all, sorry, gotta run. bbl...
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15:39.25sieve'lo CosmicPenguin
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15:43.36CosmicPenguinhello hello
15:46.52CosmicPenguinheh - Duke Nukem 3D source code released
15:47.01CosmicPenguinI want the source code to the original Duke Nukem
15:47.08CosmicPenguinAnd Commander Keen - love Commander Keen
15:47.28sorphinheh
15:47.40scanlineyes, I want commander keen!
15:47.54scanlinethough most of it's probably written in assembler...
15:51.15CosmicPenguinscanline: probably not the later ones.  /. says ID is selling some of those programs again
15:51.47scanlinehmm
15:52.19CosmicPenguinThe last commander keen was the best - difficult - but damn cool (especially for the early 90s)
15:52.24sorphinnever played commander keen.. did like Duke 3d tho
15:54.04sorphinha, i see they finally corrected the date in their 30 years of cell phones story
15:54.55CosmicPenguinsorphin: the original DN was much more fun - I really dig the games with the cartoonish look
15:55.02sorphinnod
15:56.32sorphinkergoth: find that doc? :P~
15:59.48kergothheh
15:59.53kergothi got an email today
16:00.08sorphin?
16:00.10kergothfrom a guy who binary patched the sharp updater to let you flash an oz rom from /root/Documents
16:00.16kergothsymlinked from anywhere.. sd card..
16:00.37sorphincool
16:01.05sorphinassuming it really works
16:01.28kergothyeah, only downside is it kills the crc check, so you damn well better md5sum that sucker
16:01.38kergothcause it flashes from an ospack file, which includes angel
16:01.56sorphinhmm
16:02.09sorphintoo bad there's not a way around that
16:02.27kergothindeed, its dangerous
16:02.47kergothi'd rather modprobe a writable mtd driver and see if it can be done that way
16:02.51sorphinkergoth: would make someone end up where i am if they're not careful :P
16:03.17kergothyes
16:03.36kergothi'll send an email to the contact to obtain the doc with the jtag info and cc you
16:04.06sorphink
16:04.18sorphinkergoth: the fun part would be a cable
16:04.28sorphinsince they use that funky connector on the Z
16:04.47sorphinunless somehow you can tap into those same lines on the cradle
16:04.52kergothjust hack a cradle
16:04.59kergothyep
16:05.07kergoththere isnt much to it, its been on my todo for quite some time
16:05.32sorphinbut then, that's just me
16:19.42sorphinkergoth: did that guy send you the modded updater or just mention it?
16:20.31kergothsent me a script that stuffs a oz initrd.bin and zImage into a sharp ospack file
16:20.45kergoththe comments in that script give you the dd commands to rip out the updater from the sharp stuff
16:20.49kergothfor your use
16:21.03sorphinah
16:21.11sorphinmind tossing it over?
16:21.32kergothwill do. whats you email addy again?
16:24.12sorphingot it
16:33.37sorphinkergoth: do you know what flash chips this thing uses (even if you can't find your copy of the docs)
16:34.43kergothLF28F640BX
16:35.10sorphinand of course
16:35.15sorphingoogle can't find that
16:35.16sorphingrr
16:35.18prpplaguesorphin: whats that about the cradle?
16:36.03sorphinprpplague: oh, was saying that if i have to jtag it'll have to be doable through the cradle since those connectors/a premade cable aren't an easy find
16:36.24sorphinkergoth: well, so much for trying to find the docs via google
16:36.38prpplaguesorphin: ahh, ya, all pins are available in the standard usb cradle
16:36.43prpplaguesorphin: and have solder points
16:36.48sorphincool
16:37.38sorphinkergoth: if i've become a pain, feel free to say so :P
16:37.56kergoth'become'?
16:37.59kergoth:)
16:38.02sorphinheh
16:38.09sorphinpoint taken
16:38.13kergothheheh
16:39.24sorphinheh
16:39.27sorphinstrataflash
16:39.39sorphintypical
16:43.19sorphinnow i remember why i hate intel flash
16:47.47sorphinanyways
16:48.13sorphinmaybe i'll just toss the Z
16:49.31CosmicPenguinsorphin: why so much hatred for the Z?
16:50.06CosmicPenguinHeh - I call goodwin's law on the Iraqi Information Minister... :)
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16:52.47CosmicPenguinandersee: beautiful day in the neighborhood,huh?
16:55.47CosmicPenguinDid anyone grab the DN 3-D code?  I don't want to sign up to download
16:57.06sorphinCosmicPenguin: there's a link on the comments for getting it w/ no reg
16:57.12sorphinCosmicPenguin: as for my hate for the Z
16:57.22sorphinbecause mine's become a piece of crap
16:57.52anderseeCosmicPenguin: well, I guess having more snow is good
16:58.03anderseeThough it broke a branch on my tree
17:03.52CosmicPenguinandersee: I just can't believe it was 70 degrees a few days ago
17:05.16sorphinstill is here ;)
17:05.23sorphin71 to be exact
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17:34.19sorphinsjhill-afk: lo
17:34.22sorphinheh
17:34.29sorphina dup :P
17:55.10chouimatmorning
18:03.10kergothwhat cpu is in shannon/tuxscreen? strongarm SA1100?
18:03.21kergothneed to setup the ipkg architecture entries
18:06.35sorphinkergoth: ya
18:07.00kergothk
18:07.03kergoththanks
18:07.17kergothipkg obeys architecture now. only installs packages for architectures your device supprots
18:09.14sorphinnod
18:09.40sorphinkergoth: fyi, i think if i do manage to get my Z up again, i'm using the method that guy sent you if i don't wanna use CF
18:09.56sorphincuz if the flash in the Z is what i found the doc here on..
18:10.00sorphinthis thing SUCKS
18:12.14sorphinthe flash that is
18:18.01chouimatsorphin: still a bricked z?
18:18.31sorphinchouimat: for the moment, yeah
18:20.05sorphinchouimat: was looking at what should be the specs sheet on the flash in the Z (if it's what kergoth said it is, since he couldn't find his copy of the docs).. the commands this thing wants.. suck
18:20.19sorphinand i don't have time atm either to crack open my cradle
18:22.21chouimatsorphin: LF28F640BX?
18:22.45sorphinthat's the one he told me, but you can't find that via google, all you find is 28F640
18:22.52sorphinwhich is a 5V Intel Strataflash
18:26.42chouimatsorphin: http://sharp-world.com/products/device/flash/ <--- it's lh nnot lf
18:27.00sorphinheh
18:27.41sorphinchouimat: are you positive? :)
18:27.48chouimatyup
18:27.56sorphinthen it must be a BF too
18:28.05chouimatmaybe
18:28.06sorphinsince it's a page mode flash obviously
18:28.12sorphinfrom the way i had to access it to read it
18:28.36chouimatsorphin: hope that help :)
18:28.52sorphinchouimat: hopefully it will, thanks
18:28.59sorphinkergoth: :-P
18:29.18chouimatsorphin: np
18:30.26sorphinheh
18:30.35sorphinwonder if it's top or bottom boot..
18:30.47sorphinchouimat: http://sharp-world.com/products/device/flash/g4list.html
18:33.44chouimatsorphin: ok now open the z and  get the good number :)
18:38.16sorphinchouimat: heh
18:38.29sorphinchouimat: i was hoping earlier someone already had while i was googling
18:38.57sorphinold timmy might know
18:40.02TomWsorphin: Tim must be on some kind of computer auditing / abuse system.  Otherwise I would have expected to see him at least lurking during business hours?
18:40.17chouimathi TomW
18:40.24TomWmorning
18:40.27sorphinTomW: i dunno..
18:40.33sorphinwill have to ask him next time he appears
18:40.41TomWsorphin: you think that he is that dedicated?
18:40.54TomWthat he wouldn't lurk on company time?
18:41.11sorphini dunno
18:50.26sorphinTomW: you think the Z uses top or bottom boot flash ?
18:50.38TomWbottom
18:50.43sorphink
18:50.51sorphinbga or tsop?
18:50.52TomWARM processors boot from 0x0000
18:50.55sorphink
18:51.02TomWIntel X86 boot from the top.
18:51.11sorphinfrom FFFF
18:51.32sorphinTomW: that's just odd
18:51.37sorphinto me 0000 would seem like the top
18:51.44sorphinand FFFF would seem like the bottom (end)
18:51.54TomWIt doesn't really matter on the ARM, IIRC, there is a specific chip select that is reserved for the boot prom only?
18:52.12sorphini dunno
18:52.18sorphini'm still learning ARM
18:52.33sorphinhence my having to fight w/ this page mode crap just to get my reader working
18:52.34TomWthat chip select is activated and the first address, 0x0000, is fetched.
18:52.59sorphinok, so bottom boot
18:53.09sorphinTomW: suspect tsop most likely?
18:55.19sorphinugh
18:55.29sorphini see this flash is just as sad as the strataflash w/ commands
18:55.56sorphinwtf ever happened to using simple flash that you poke 5555 AAAA or whatever into an addr
18:55.58sorphinand off you go
18:58.23TomWCS0 is hardwired within the EP7312 ARM processor to occupy the first 256Meg of memory space: 0x0000:0000 to 0x0fff:ffff
18:58.38sorphinnod
18:59.11sorphinTomW: the commands that both sharp and intel use are down right nasty, gimme SST/Atmel :P
18:59.27sorphinnice and straightforward
18:59.41TomWbottom boot., I'll check the SA1100 data but should be the same, ARM cores vary in capabilities (e.g. DRAM vs SDRAM controllers, half or full word accessing, etc), but essentailly the arch remains the same.
18:59.54chouimatsorphin: you don't like intel?
19:00.10TomWcommans for the Flash memory program / erase / write stuff?
19:00.14sorphinyou: well.. just looking at their flash commands, atleast for strataflash
19:00.18sorphinsuck
19:00.19TomWs/commans/commands/
19:00.20sorphinTomW: yes
19:01.08sorphinsst/atmel is easy as pie
19:01.10sorphini just do
19:01.10sorphin<PROTECTED>
19:01.11sorphin<PROTECTED>
19:01.11sorphin<PROTECTED>
19:01.14TomWyeah, isn't the whole purpose of the strataflash to allow sectoring of the flash memory so you can be executing code from one sector while erasing / programming another sector?
19:01.19sorphinthen write the byte
19:01.49TomWI haven't delved too deeply into strataflash yet.  Give me a couple of days.  :(
19:01.51sorphinTomW: no clue.. i've only worked w/ as i said, sst/atmel flash proms
19:02.06sorphinwhich i do the above to program a byte
19:02.09TomWhmmm, AMD mostly here.
19:02.22sorphineven amd hasn't looked that bad from what i remember
19:02.32TomWand the older intel 28Fxxx series, same unlocking dance.
19:02.45sorphinyeah
19:02.53sorphinthe newer 28Fxxx is strataflash
19:03.10TomWstrataflash looks as if the microcode engine within the chip is far more sophisticated.
19:03.13sorphini.e. the 640 and 320
19:03.19TomWk
19:03.45sorphinTomW: just from what i ran into
19:03.54sorphinwould you think the Z's flash is Page Mode flash?
19:03.58sorphinseems like it to me
19:04.02TomWI just want a protected boot block in a 2 megabyte flash.
19:04.23kergothc700 has a protected 8mb boot area. works pretty well
19:05.06kergothsorphin: "The LH28F640BX series page-mode dual-work flash memory has the following features..."
19:05.09TomWit may not need to be, there are techniques for updating the flash store without losing control of the update process: place runtime code into ram and use the flash only to init the ram image, etc.
19:05.15kergothsorphin: excerpt from the Z service manual
19:05.22sorphinkergoth: well, let's seee
19:05.26sorphinyou told ME LF
19:05.28prpplagueTomW: i worked out a nice set of chain boot with blob for the same type of idea
19:05.29sorphinnot LH
19:05.33sorphindork
19:05.33kergothyeah yeah i know
19:05.35kergothheheh
19:05.44TomWall you really need on a handheld is a protected boot block so when manufacturing the unit, you can fill the rest of the flash with your o/s code.
19:05.46kergoththats what happens when i type before coffee
19:05.52prpplagueTomW: i built a custom blob that booted a second blob
19:05.54sorphinkergoth: well don't do that again :P
19:05.58kergothheheh
19:06.04TomWprpplague: heh
19:06.05sorphinkergoth: funny how sharp's flash page
19:06.10prpplagueTomW: the second blob could be flashed, however the first blob was protected
19:06.11sorphinonly shows BF and BJ
19:06.13sorphinno BX
19:06.22sorphinmust not share that one
19:06.33TomWprpplague: so if made a mistake in the first one you could bail your ass out later?
19:06.46kergothsorphin: "48-lead TSOP, standard pinout"
19:06.51kergothalso from said manual
19:06.55prpplagueTomW: mistake in the second blob
19:07.08sorphinkergoth: i'm guessing the svc manual is the one that you can't share?
19:07.11prpplagueTomW: because you could always boot to the first blob and reflash the second one
19:07.14kergothsorphin: yep
19:07.17sorphinkergoth: who do i have to contact at sharp to get that? :P
19:07.19sorphinand how
19:07.31kergothlike i said, i'll contact him and cc you
19:07.45sorphinkergoth: i want more than just the jtag bits
19:07.54sorphinkergoth: i want what you have, so i can get into more hard core :P
19:07.58sorphin:)
19:08.02kergothheh
19:08.06kergoththe schematics are in the back of this thing
19:08.14sorphinkergoth: exactly
19:08.20sorphinthat's the kinda stuff i want ;)
19:08.34sorphinkergoth: i'll sign whatever, i don't care
19:08.47kergothalright i'll send off an email toay
19:08.49kergothtoday rather
19:08.49sorphini just wanna be able to DO something :P
19:09.03TomWThe one production flash based unit that I had build about 10 years ago had a small library of functions in it: read / write RAM, jump to memory location, etc.  I would control the process from RS232 commands.  It has lasted years without change.  Even when I fsk'ed up the Flash programming code in the boot block, I would download a RAM image of the corrected algorithm and run the corrected code.
19:09.46sorphinkergoth: k, for the full svc man :) *grin*.. maybe i can help w/ OZ at some point (if you have any room).. i'm less likely to have probs like this once i have the references needed *grin*
19:10.07sorphinTomW: heh, 10 years ago
19:10.16sorphin10 years ago, i didn't know what flash was :P
19:10.27sorphini'd just gotten into linux too :P
19:10.49kergoth10 years ago, i was probably coding in basic and going outside to play with my friends
19:10.54kergothheheh
19:10.58sorphinkergoth: youngin ;)
19:11.02sorphinkergoth: wait a sec
19:11.06sorphinyou had friends?
19:11.10sorphin;P
19:11.14kergoth~fishslap sorphin
19:11.16ACTION slaps sorphin up side the head with a wet fish.
19:11.29sorphinkergoth: hold old are you again? 23?
19:11.35sorphins/hold/how/
19:11.44kergothas of later this month, 23. 22 currently.
19:11.48sorphinah
19:11.56sorphinman you make even me feel old
19:12.02sorphintho my gf really does :P
19:13.15sorphinTomW: you are old tho ;) (well, compared to the rest of us)
19:13.39sorphinbut still useful
19:13.44sorphin*grin*
19:13.55TomWJust remember, children, I helped get you to where you are today:  I had to put up with 2K Static RAM + 8 bit CPUs!
19:14.09TomWsomebody had to do it.
19:14.13TomWheh
19:14.14sorphinTomW: i put up w/ 8 bit cpus too
19:14.17sorphin:P
19:14.31TomWyeah, but, that was the biggest that we had.
19:14.38sorphinditto
19:14.50sorphin:P
19:15.08sorphinread: 23 years ago
19:15.25sorphinchouimat: Atari 800 XL
19:15.29TomWthis has been a good ride, I have been involved in the personal (small) computer revolution and now the internet revolution.  Life is good!
19:15.51TomWsorphin: I remember that peice of shit: Atari 400 / 800
19:16.10TomWTimex Sinclair
19:16.12CosmicPenguinTomW: POS?  Hardly
19:16.17sorphinbet you don't even know what a Tandem is
19:16.26prpplagueTomW: oooowwww, love me ts-1000's
19:16.28chouimatsorphin: TRS-80 Model II  -> zx-81 (mine) -> TRS-80 Color Computer 2-> Tandy color computer 3->PCs
19:16.29CosmicPenguinit should be a requirement for you to complete your entire college education on a 8 bit processor
19:16.30sorphinCosmicPenguin: indeed.. i learned basic on my 800 xl
19:16.30prpplagues/me/my
19:16.34TomWI probably don't want to either
19:16.49CosmicPenguinLets stamp out code bloat in our lifetimes!
19:16.49sorphinTomW: 16 big Fridge size black loud cabinets
19:16.50prpplagueibot: webpal
19:16.50webpal is, like, a set top box appliance that can run Linux. see http://webpal.bigbrd.com/, or http://www.softwareandstuff.com/h_misc_webpal.html, or only $13 + shipping!, or schematics are available from: http://www.geocities.com/webpalstuff/
19:16.56TomWI started with 8080
19:17.17sorphinCosmicPenguin: cut that out :P
19:17.23chouimatCosmicPenguin: how big is now?
19:17.26prpplagueCosmicPenguin: bloat, bloat, bloar
19:17.32TomWthe 1802 was too expensive and the company I worked for just got an 8080 based product
19:17.34sorphin~lart CosmicPenguin for bloating Pixil
19:18.32TomWsorphin: to strata or not to strata, that is the question.  Should I use AMD or Intel?
19:18.55sorphinchouimat: Atari 800 XL -> Tandy 1000SX -> some 286/12 machine -> 386dx/40 -> 486/dx2/80 -> dx4/100 -> 5x86/133 -> K5/166 ->....
19:18.58TomWor, just boot from an 8 bit EPROM?
19:19.07sorphinTomW: umm.. how much code?
19:19.15CosmicPenguinTomW: AMD - there shouldn't be any choice there
19:19.40sorphinTomW: if it's enough for flash, use AMD
19:19.56TomWWell, I could require the design to have a compact flash socket on it and boot from EPROM by pulling the "real" boot from the CF.
19:20.13TomWThat way I have lots of code space...
19:20.23sorphinTomW: and a "safety" area
19:20.28sorphinya kno
19:20.33sorphini wonder about google sometimes
19:20.41TomWshove 16Meg of SDRAM onto the card, that should be enough to do what I want..
19:20.41sorphinLH28F640BX
19:20.52sorphinand i find a page of links
19:20.55sorphinthat don't even apply
19:21.00sorphinbut happen to be other sharp chips
19:21.04TomWRAM is upgradeable to 64Meg by replacing the chips.
19:21.13sorphini.e. LRS138x
19:21.47TomWis that what is in there:  LH28F640BX ?
19:21.59sorphinya
19:22.10sorphinaccording to chris now from the svc manual
19:22.33TomWI would venture to assume that is the Intel 28F640 bottom boot stratflash being manufactured under Second Source licensing to Sharp.
19:22.47sorphinheh
19:22.55sorphini hope not
19:22.55sorphin:P
19:23.06TomWnobody likes to use Sole Source in a design.
19:23.24sorphincuz i looked at the 29F40 sheet from intel
19:23.27sorphinnaaaaaaaasty
19:23.30sorphin+6
19:23.40chouimatsorphin: ouch
19:42.55prpplaguesjhill_: vr4181, isn't that the same chip as the vr3?
19:43.15chouimathi prpplague
19:43.28prpplaguechouimat: lo
19:44.06CosmicPenguinAhhH!
19:44.12chouimatmerde! 14h43 ....
19:44.20sorphin:P
19:44.39CosmicPenguinsorphin: I'm glad Greg has been dragging his feet - this makes me sad and alarmed
19:45.04sorphinCosmicPenguin: needs a good rewrite?
19:45.58CosmicPenguinsorphin: they're using text messages passed back and forth
19:46.20CosmicPenguinWhat is this, WIN32?
19:46.36sorphinCosmicPenguin: heh
19:46.45sorphinguess whoever wrote it thinks so
19:47.21sorphinkergoth: re
19:47.26kergothhey
19:47.28fileGreetings all.
19:47.42sorphinjust looked at ./drivers/mtd/devices/sa1100_mtdrom.c
19:47.56sorphindid lineo japan write anything that wasn't ugly?
19:48.03kergothheheh
19:48.04kergothnot afaik
19:48.14kergothtake a look at drivers/char/sharp_logkey.c
19:49.25sorphinkergoth: umm
19:49.38sorphinkergoth: you think they coded w/ their eyes closed?
19:54.13sorphinerm
19:54.16sorphinprpplague: uhhh
19:54.45sorphinyou said the jtag comes down to the cradle.. well, that 16 pin conn on the Z.. according to the 16 pin pdf
19:55.10sorphindoesn't mention anything/show anything but the serial
19:55.17prpplaguesorphin: thats correct
19:55.46sorphinso where's teh damn jtag pins then? :P
19:55.51prpplaguesorphin: from what i was told that some of the pins are dual function
19:56.13prpplaguesorphin: i never had info on the jtag or its pin out
19:56.19sorphinprpplague: oh you mean told by.. KERGOTH maybe?
19:56.28sorphin:P
19:56.30prpplaguesorphin: all i said was that _all_ pins are available on the cradle
19:56.37prpplaguesorphin: i never said what the pinouts were
19:57.09prpplaguesorphin: if the jtag is available on the connector then you can use the cradle
19:57.40sorphinwonder where to get this special version of jflash :P
19:59.36sorphinso i don't have to risk trashing my only one :P
20:00.40prpplaguesorphin: they are extremely expensive
20:00.48sorphinheh
20:00.51prpplaguesorphin: like $50
20:01.13sorphinmaybe i can find a dead Z somewhere :P
20:01.19prpplaguesorphin: i bought 16, nearly had a heart attack when i saw the bill
20:01.29sorphinheh
20:01.38sorphinhow long ago?
20:01.46prpplague6-9 months ago
20:01.51sorphinprolly less now
20:02.07sorphinmaybe
20:02.51sorphinheh
20:02.53sorphinneat
20:03.05sorphinprpplague: http://www.sc-systems.com/products/adaptors/ZThinCableUSB.htm
20:03.37sorphinmaybe i'll get one of those, then i won't have to worry about if hte cradle has probs
20:05.28prpplagueya i was just about to send you to there page
20:05.48sorphinheh, place i just found that sells the cradle
20:05.50sorphinwants $81
20:05.50prpplaguesorphin: iirc that one doesn't use all pins
20:05.58sorphinnod
20:06.08sorphinwell, i'd just use that instead of the cradle for normal stuff
20:06.20sorphinthat way i could hack on the cradle and not end up 'stranded'
20:06.34prpplaguesorphin: they have a barcode back pack that looks strangle identical as my barcode pack i sent to sharp
20:07.02prpplaguesorphin: why stranded?
20:07.15sorphindamn crashing browser
20:07.28sorphinprpplague: well if i fscked the cradle
20:07.38sorphinand didn't have that cable or something else
20:07.49sorphinthe Z would be isolated
20:08.40chouimatfuck! I just forgot I have a meeting in 82 minutes ... on the other side of the town ...
20:08.52sorphinoops
20:09.01prpplaguewheres a mips whore when you need one.........
20:09.44chouimatprpplague: http://www.softfield.com/
20:09.45sorphinprpplague: prolly off mipswhoring
20:10.00sorphinprpplague: heh
20:10.12sorphinhttp://www.cellcommunication.com/index.php/asin.B0000645V7/mode.electronics/op.details/dt.1/page.3/textquery./sfID.512/sfmode.electronics/
20:10.25sorphinprpplague: looks liek a cheating way of what you did via your cradle
20:11.00chouimathmmm the vr3 is at 99USD
20:11.08sorphinheh
20:11.17kergothchouimat: should add vr3 to buildroot
20:11.23kergothheh
20:11.51chouimatkergoth: http://www.softfield.com/
20:11.54prpplaguesorphin: ya
20:12.10prpplaguekergoth: looks like i might do that
20:12.24prpplaguekergoth: i just ordered a bunch of symbol ppt-2700's
20:12.32kergothah
20:12.45prpplaguekergoth: they appear to be pretty identical to the vr3
20:13.15*** join/#elinux fontenot_ (~fontenot@adsl-64-172-24-60.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)
20:13.46prpplaguekergoth: http://www.symbol.com/products/mobile_computers/mobile_ppc_ppt2700_data.html
20:14.21kergothah
20:15.13chouimathow much?
20:15.51prpplaguechouimat: i'm getting them re-furb'd at $225.00
20:19.35chouimatprpplague: not bad
20:20.00prpplaguechouimat: if i can get linux running
20:20.15prpplaguechouimat: don't know, i've been extremely burnt out lately
20:20.33prpplaguechouimat: i've had the DGAFRA attittude
20:20.34chouimatprpplague: the vr3 are at 99USD forr the 16MB
20:20.50prpplaguechouimat: ya but they don't have bc scanner or rechargable battery
20:20.57chouimatprpplague: ok
20:22.28chouimatok I have to go
20:22.38prpplaguechouimat|bbl: drive safely :)
20:22.49chouimat|bblprpplague: I will walk ... no car :)
20:24.02chouimat|bblprpplague: and probably  go  drink somes (read several) beers after that :)
20:24.23prpplaguecool
20:24.26prpplaguedrink one for me
20:24.35prpplaguechouimat|bbl: maybe a nice ipa
20:25.30chouimat|bblprpplague: will do ... later
20:38.49fileprpplague: did those Webpals show up yet?
20:39.03prpplaguefile: already got most of them sold
20:39.14fileprpplague: wow
20:39.30prpplaguefile: selling them overseas
20:39.59sorphinprpplague: still got any spare flash simms ?
20:40.36prpplagueya 2
20:40.41prpplaguesorphin: you need some?
20:40.51prpplaguesorphin: i still have your ram here too
20:40.55sorphinprpplague: need atleast 1 w/ something already on it
20:40.56prpplaguesorphin: you still want it?
20:41.01sorphinso i can recover these 2
20:41.09sorphinyeah, please
20:41.54prpplaguesorphin: alright, i have like 10 boxes here i need to ship, but can't seem to find time
20:42.52sorphinprpplague: how far is abcsinc from RSCN again ?
20:43.11fileI'll have to pass up the Webpal and go for the next cheap embedded Linux device
20:43.44prpplaguesorphin: rscn?
20:43.48sorphinrichardson
20:44.00prpplaguesorphin: 2.5hours@70mph
20:44.05sorphinheh
20:44.09prpplaguewhy?
20:44.26sorphinwas thinking since you never get time to ship, and your shipping chick is useless
20:44.34sorphinwould just pick the stuff up while i'm down there
20:44.42prpplaguesorphin: when?
20:44.58prpplaguesorphin: btw, its really my fault since i've no taken the stuff down there
20:45.38sorphinprpplague: you did before
20:45.46sorphinand got a note back asking "what do i do w/ these?"
20:46.01prpplaguesorphin: ahh true, but i have more now
20:46.11prpplaguesorphin: ones that i've not taken down there
20:46.52sorphinnod
21:08.55sorphinugh
21:09.02kergoth?
21:09.04sorphin"Feel like watching new releases in 7.1 surround sound with full digital video? It's coming, not with MPEG 4 but with Windows Media 9. Microsoft announced it is bringing Windows Media 9 to 177 screens in Landmark Theaters."
21:09.14kergothehh
21:18.41CosmicPenguinheh
21:18.53sorphinCosmicPenguin: ever get the source yet?
21:18.59CosmicPenguin?
21:19.04sorphinDN3d
21:19.08CosmicPenguinyea
21:19.14sorphink
21:38.27*** join/#elinux fontenot_ (~fontenot@adsl-64-172-24-60.dsl.sntc01.pacbell.net)
23:23.03CosmicPenguinsorphin: hows your html?
23:23.12CosmicPenguinsorphin: how do you set an image as the background of a table cell?
23:24.07CosmicPenguinsorphin: duh nm
23:24.25kergoth~fishslap CosmicPenguin for not going to w3c.org
23:24.26ACTION slaps CosmicPenguin up side the head with a wet fish for not going to w3c.org
23:24.32kergoththe standards are the definitive reference
23:25.43CosmicPenguinw3c.org is crap
23:25.51kergothheh
23:25.59CosmicPenguinI would rather read my stereo instructions
23:26.33kergothhah
23:26.37CosmicPenguinThe standards are nice, but they are never worded in an implementation sense - always in a vauge description sense
23:27.02sorphinyup
23:27.23sorphinkergoth: sent that mail yet? :P
23:27.44kergothnah, sent a different mail to that guy though.. i'll send it now
23:27.44kergothheh
23:27.52sorphinheh new spam for a change "operation iraqi freedom coin"
23:29.45kergothsent
23:30.47sorphinah spencer
23:31.33sorphinkergoth: the's the one doing the unofficial faq isn't he?
23:31.38kergothno
23:31.46kergothhe's the guy running the developer relations at sharp
23:32.21sorphini know i've seen his name elsewhere tho
23:32.37kergothhe replies to mails on zaurus-general occasionally
23:32.53kergothsorphin: who in here ar ethe mips people?
23:33.03kergothmy mipsel toolchain just exploded
23:33.09kergoths/just/compile just/
23:33.13sorphini'm semi mips, sjhill's the mips whore
23:33.23sorphinhowso ?
23:33.29kergoth*** errlist.c count 125 vs Versions sys_errlist@GLIBC_2.3 count 1134
23:33.29kergothmake[4]: *** [/usr/src/mipsel/build/glibc-2.3.1/build/stdio-common/errlist-compat.c] Error 1
23:33.33kergothboom, boom.
23:33.34kergothheh
23:33.56sorphinlemme see what version i'm doing w/
23:33.58kergothk
23:34.11sorphin2.2.3
23:34.29kergothbleh, trying to build a gcc3.2.3/glibc2.3.x
23:34.31sorphin2.3 seems to be a xcompile prob no matter what platform
23:34.33kergothmaybe mips is broken there
23:34.34kergothno
23:34.40kergothi have a 2.3.1 flawless arm chain here
23:34.41kergothno prob
23:34.44kergothfails on mipsel though
23:34.45sorphinheh
23:34.55kergothcan try 2.3.2, but its even more broken
23:35.00kergothi suspect i'll need to pull from cvs
23:35.03sorphinkergoth: what are you using that is mipsel?
23:35.27kergothsorphin: building a vr3 toolchain for dave's use. teaching oz's buildsystem to work with it
23:35.46sorphinnow i know where i've seen spender
23:35.49kergothbuildroot works fine with it, just the toolchain build doesnt like me
23:35.49sorphinspencer
23:35.54kergoth?
23:36.01sorphindocs.zaurus.com
23:36.04kergothah, yeah
23:36.40sorphini've had a few non xcompile'd probs w/ 2.3
23:36.45sorphinbit annoying
23:39.32*** join/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130)
23:40.00sorphinGPSFan: evening
23:40.42GPSFanhi dan, lnng day...
23:40.46sorphinyup
23:40.52GPSFanlong day taht is...
23:41.19GPSFanstill looking for the data sheets on a LF28F640BX?
23:41.47sorphinactually we found out
23:41.49sorphinit's LH
23:42.12sorphinsharp flash, possibley second sourced from intel (aka strataflash)
23:43.13sorphinkergoth: heh
23:43.16sorphininteresting
23:47.20sorphinheh
23:47.24sorphinspencer looks about your age :P
23:47.30kergothhe does?
23:47.41sorphinerm
23:47.43sorphinwrong pic
23:47.46sorphinnevermind
23:47.50sorphintwas ben meyer
23:48.00kergothk
23:48.03kergothyeah, ben is around my age
23:48.52sorphinah there's spencer
23:48.54sorphinhmm
23:49.09sorphinlooks late 20s or such
23:58.57GPSFansorphin: ok, glad you found it..
23:59.59sorphinGPSFan: it's quite evil

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