irclog2html for #elinux on 20030728

02:07.16*** join/#elinux TheMasterMind1 (~aman@h-68-166-65-159.MCLNVA23.covad.net)
03:09.07chouimatnight
04:19.57*** join/#elinux andersee (~andersee@codepoet.org)
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04:59.02*** join/#elinux TomW (tom@24.229.147.46)
04:59.16TomWandersee: good evening Erik
05:03.13anderseeTomW: evening
05:03.17anderseeTomW: how goes it?
05:03.51TomWandersee: slowly, routing out a PCB for use in the webpal.  details, details, details...
05:04.12anderseesounds like fun
05:04.23TomWandersee: and now I find that my HP printer is not spitting dots onto paper anymore.
05:04.41TomWandersee: you know, sometimes, life sux.
05:04.46TomWheh
05:05.45TomWandersee: really though, I always like designing electronics circuits.  Then I can write code to run them!
05:07.44fontenotandersee: my gcc 3.3 uclibc toolchain which builds good SA kernels, does not build a bootable PXA kernel - any ideas?
05:08.26anderseehmm
05:09.04anderseeI understand gcc 3.3.1 is about to be released...
05:09.10anderseeYou could try updating...
05:09.14anderseeie.
05:09.16andersee#GCC_SITE:=ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/gcc/
05:09.17andersee#GCC_SOURCE:=gcc-3.3.tar.gz
05:09.17anderseeGCC_SITE:=http://mirrors.rcn.net/pub/sourceware/gcc/snapshots
05:09.17anderseeGCC_SOURCE:=gcc-3.3.1-20030720.tar.bz2
05:09.21fontenotI have seen uclibc list posts about ptoblems with PXA on your toolchain - I dunno if this is related
05:09.36anderseeAnd of course, change zcat to bzcat where needed
05:09.46fontenotandersee: cool I will try that in a bit
05:09.54anderseeAlso...
05:10.07anderseeYou should be able to delete sources/gcc-003-arm-bugfix.patch for gcc 3.3
05:10.29anderseeAs that problem was reported fixed in 3.3
05:12.21fontenotah cool
05:15.34fontenotandersee: did you see the uclibc list posts about PXA ?
05:15.44fontenotppl trying PXA optimizations but not able to build
05:33.41anderseefontenot: don't specifically recall those
05:47.50fontenotthis is one (and the reply to it is wrong - there are xscale -march and -mtune) : http://uclibc.org/lists/uclibc/2003-July/006574.html
05:48.04fontenot-mcpu I meant
05:49.06fontenotanother: http://uclibc.org/lists/uclibc/2003-June/006445.html
05:58.03anderseeI suppose -march=xscale doesn't work
05:58.27anderseeI don't own any xscale anything, so I've never tried all that hard to support it
05:59.13anderseeI suppose in this case, interested folks will need to find the correct compiler optimizations and submit them
07:31.06TomWboy!  The Texas Instruments website really sucks since they redesigned it..  It is impossible to get a data sheet on any of the semiconductor parts that they sell!
07:42.13fontenotugh
08:07.48Russandersee: so now, anything that uses daemon can run on uclinux?
08:07.52RussTomW: its pretty easy
08:08.01Russjust type in something like 74AHCT08
08:08.58fontenotandersee: cool - gcc-3.3.1-20030720 built a bootable PXA kernel!
08:10.53TomWRuss: ok, try this part: SN751177N
08:11.11Russyou don't have a logic family
08:11.19TomWRuss: you will see that they make it, DigiKey sells it, but there is no datasheet.
08:11.27Russpick a family
08:11.49TomWanalog, interface.
08:11.50TomWright
08:11.51TomW?
08:12.05Russoh
08:12.11RussI was thinking digital logic
08:12.31Russhttp://focus.ti.com/general/docs/sitesearch/searchdevice.tsp;jsessionid=ENC23QHO5HDUTQC1JAKRVQQ?partNumber=SN751177N
08:12.42RussI don't see where you are having trouble
08:12.49Russtype in 1177 and you even get more results
08:12.54TomWyeah, their common, plain vanilla lookups for simple logic, but not that part.
08:13.07Russ?
08:13.12Russlooks up fine for me
08:13.18Russjust the part number gives me just the part
08:13.26TomWRuss: ok, now pull up the data sheet, it is not there.
08:13.31Russif I do 1177, I discover there is also an ALS version
08:13.54TomWRuss: uh huh, get a parametric data sheet...
08:14.26TomWit ain't there!  :D
08:14.32Russso they don't have the datasheet online
08:14.45Russwho the hell uses these rs-485 things anyway?
08:15.20TomWheh
08:15.49Russfind another transceiver
08:15.53TomWI decided that since national had no second source on them that I would stay with two 75176's
08:15.56Russhttp://focus.ti.com/docs/search/paramsearch.jhtml?tfsection=param_table&templateId=5&showAssociated=false&familyId=545
08:17.00Russwhat about the 175?
08:17.02Russthats cheap
08:17.57Russthe 179 has a datasheet
08:19.09Russhttp://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/productfolder.jhtml?genericPartNumber=SN65HVD3082E seems to be a modern replacement for the 176
08:19.18TomWRuss: heh, the 75175 has no data sheet either.
08:19.53TomWRuss: naw, the 179 is full duplex only, I need half duplex operation.
08:20.28RussI would go with that 3082 thingy then
08:21.34TomWActually, on this demo design, I only need a 75176, when it comes to the full design, I will need optically isolated RS485 circuitry.  Like the Maxim 1480 device.
08:22.32Russhmm...
08:22.54RussI don't know much about your design, but what if you encoded the bitstream with mfm or something, and then used analog coupling?
08:23.21Russsorta like ethernet
08:24.51TomWI have to interface to Fire Panels.  They have ground fault detectors and they can "feel" it when I plug into the RS232 port of the Fire Panel.  They go into Ground Fault.  So, I power my board off their supply, isolate the PCB from ground and use optically isolated RS485 to communicate my board to the outside world.
08:25.30TomWRuss: yah, like manchester coding?
08:25.34Russright
08:25.46Russanalog isolation would give you the same thing, but lower your acheivable bit rate
08:25.50Russmaybe cheaper, maybe not
08:26.04Russdunno how much cost is a driving factor
08:26.58TomWit is a choice: do I A) isolated the RS232 + Power Supply  -- or -- B) isolate the off board comm lines (RS485 + ethernet)?
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08:27.22TomWRuss: not that cost sensitive, not doing more than 200 units per year.
08:27.42Russmaxim definately keeps your engineering simple
08:28.17Russwith 200 units, engneerng s your rvng factor
08:28.19TomWEthernet should isolate ok.  The Fire Panels trip the Ground Fault when there is 270K ohms or less of resistance to Earth Ground.
08:28.34Russhmm...a bunch of my keys just stoppe working
08:28.40TomWheh
08:28.42Russwait, there the go
08:28.47Russthey
08:28.54TomWhard to type when that happens..
08:29.43TomWI can see that this design will be using a RTAI type of structure (wrapped around linux).
08:30.13TomWlots of realtime constraints happening here
08:32.06RussI just disable interrupts when I have real time stuff going on...sit there and spin
08:53.49RussI'm thinking it might be time to get a new keyboard
08:57.26TomWI am using an older Micro$oft Ergonomic keyboard here.
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11:43.38chouimatmorning
13:23.50*** join/#elinux GPSFan (~kenm@65.114.238.130)
13:38.13*** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (~jordanc@12-209-187-85.client.attbi.com)
13:38.19CosmicPenguinMorning
13:40.50*** join/#elinux sjhill (~sjhill@65.117.135.105)
13:48.04CosmicPenguinBob Hope:  1903 - 2003
13:51.58sjhillgaaaaah!!!
13:52.02sjhillcrap
13:52.24sjhillhe was fantastic....what a loss
14:01.59CosmicPenguinHe did give us a full life though
14:02.31CosmicPenguin100 is a great run
14:07.03sjhillindeed
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14:18.01*** join/#elinux prpplague (~billybob@12.148.134.9)
14:18.14CosmicPenguinbb - how yah doin' yall?  
14:19.44prpplaguemorning
14:31.07*** join/#elinux sieve_work (~klu5ter@12.148.134.9)
14:31.44sieve_workmorning all
14:40.28sjhillhi sieve_work
15:11.25CosmicPenguinAll the bond movies will be releaed on DVD by Christmas
15:11.37CosmicPenguinThree sets, $124 each
15:11.41CosmicPenguinmmmmm....
15:15.44*** join/#elinux Pavlov (~pavlov@mail.sanpeople.com)
15:18.42leviThat's a hell of a lot of money for a few movies.
15:18.48leviI'd accept them as a gift, though!
15:23.25CosmicPenguinlevi:   Apparently, they're taking a page from Disney's book, and *retiring* all the movies after Christmas - so this is a get em now or never sort of situation
15:25.01*** join/#elinux sorphin (sorphin@mewp.captainrock.com)
15:25.37leviCosmicPenguin: Bah, stupid movie people.  I hate that.
15:26.41CosmicPenguinsorphin: wassup man?  Heard that MCI is being investigated again.  They showed a MCI NOC on the news and I thought of you
15:27.12sorphinCosmicPenguin: yeah, this time for SS7 code fraud
15:27.43sorphini haven't worked in the noc in 4 years, and they prolly showed Fremont (the group that stole the NOC from us)
15:28.44CosmicPenguinit was one of those "stock footage" bits for a voice over
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15:29.08CosmicPenguinYou know - they show the company headquarters, then they cut to the NOC, then they cut to somebody working, etc...
15:29.27sorphinnod
15:29.58sorphinwell, i'm only collecting a paycheck here, so, this place and go to hell as much as i care ;)
15:32.04CosmicPenguinSpeaking of paycheck, hey prpplague!
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15:52.47CosmicPenguin<PROTECTED>
16:22.18*** join/#elinux ade|desk (~adrian@modem-2959.giraffe.dialup.pol.co.uk)
16:24.13prpplagueCosmicPenguin: hey what?
16:24.25prpplagueCosmicPenguin: why would i be associated with a paycheck?
16:25.03file-mctnlugI can cash my pay check tomorrow
16:25.08CosmicPenguinprpplague: oh - I just wnated to say that I actually have an honest to goodness cashiers check in my hand from one Scott Johnson
16:25.17prpplagueCosmicPenguin: good
16:25.28prpplagueCosmicPenguin: full amount?
16:26.18CosmicPenguinprpplague: nope, but thats OK, because now I can blow him off... :)
16:26.26prpplagueCosmicPenguin: lol
16:27.02sorphinCosmicPenguin: sicko
16:27.39CosmicPenguinsorphin: seriousl
16:27.42CosmicPenguiny\
16:51.35*** join/#elinux ibot (ibot@208.186.182.172)
16:51.35*** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || debian-handheld list is up.
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17:22.17sjhillsorphin!
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17:58.53sorphinsjhill: lo steve
17:59.28RussTimRiker: do you know a tom wood?
18:02.00sjhillRuss: TomW?
18:02.08sjhillnope, that' Tom Walsh
18:02.12sjhillsorry TomW
18:04.01MornWorkhey, sorphin!
18:04.04MornWorkLTNS
18:19.07TimRikerRuss: wood? not walsh? I know Tom Walsh from email... I might know a Tom Wood, but I don't recall one at the moment.
18:24.59fontenotisn't Tom Walsh == TomW ?
18:28.02Russ<PROTECTED>
18:28.02Russ<PROTECTED>
18:28.15Russ'Embedix SDK'
18:29.11file-mctnlugyes, Tom Walsh is TomW.
18:33.24TomW<PROTECTED>
18:34.57anderseeRuss: /me remembers Tom Wood
18:47.07Russremember much about him?
18:53.58sorphinyay, the pic programmer is here
18:54.40sorphinMornWork: allo jules
18:55.24MornWorkhow goes?
18:55.42sorphinit goes
18:59.45Russandersee: I have his resume in my inbox
19:13.19fontenotandersee: did you see that gcc 3.3.1-pre worked?
19:20.31anderseefontenot: no, it worked?
19:20.35anderseefontenot: very cool
19:22.14anderseeRuss: I see
19:22.29sorphindoh
19:24.49anderseeRuss: I did not work too esp closely with him.  I can
19:26.58anderseeRuss: I did not work too esp closely with him.  I can't recall if he quit or was fired, but he was unhappy when others became unhappy with the architecture he has making for the "Target Wizard"
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20:59.29sorphinwelp, now 1 step closer to webpal simms again
21:00.07prpplaguesorphin: got a programmer working?
21:00.28prpplaguesorphin: i'm almost done with a converter for mine
21:00.31sorphinprpplague: ya, PG2C from olimex for my pic, just programmed it
21:00.36sorphinafter i eat something
21:00.40prpplaguesorphin: nice
21:00.43sorphingonna toss the pic in the webpal flasher
21:01.08sorphinshould theoretically work
21:01.45prpplaguesorphin: ahh
21:02.22prpplaguesorphin: as soon as i can get the rest of my stuff from my pyscho-soon-to-be-ex i'll be back hacking
21:02.24sorphinprpplague: well, he had a spare board (for the simm board), so i bought it from him for $10 w/ simm socket
21:02.54prpplaguesorphin: the dist for the simtec board looks like it would run well on the webpal
21:03.37sorphinnod
21:05.22sorphinkergoth: which?
21:06.07kergothLife is Killing Me
21:06.14sorphinah
21:12.20prpplaguekergoth: sounds like my theme song for the last two weeks
21:14.10kergothhehe
21:16.51prpplaguekergoth: this waiting for a phone call isn't very fun
21:17.06prpplaguekergoth: at least you didn't have to wait very long, lol
21:23.49CosmicPenguinprpplague: still waiting for that phone call?
21:24.33kergothheh, that makes like 3 people i know right now waiting on TI on positions
21:26.42prpplagueCosmicPenguin: yea
21:27.55prpplaguekergoth: ya well, i hope to hear from them soon, current boss just found out today that i went to the interview at TI
21:30.01sorphinhow?
21:30.07kergoththats what i was gonna say
21:30.08kergothheh
21:31.51prpplaguei suspect it was one of the secretaries that over heard me talking on my cell phone at lunch one day
21:32.31sorphindoh
21:33.29prpplaguewell, if i don't get the job, atleast i'll get a little out of it, they've already started asking if i have been unhappy with my latest assignments
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21:33.47sorphin;)
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21:34.30prpplagueits like "duh! i missed OLS for some legacy xenix code! you could say i'm not too happy with that assignment"
21:35.04sorphinhehe
21:35.29sorphinprpplague: so who did make it then?
21:36.19prpplaguesorphin: tim, rmk, erikm, sjhill from what i hear
21:36.30sorphinah
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21:42.34sorphintime to solder a couple wires to the flash programmer for serial access
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22:11.49*** part/#elinux wilco (~wcooley@haus.nakedape.cc)
22:22.19jacquesthere are a couple of very interesting contact points on the linksys wrt board which are probably jtag
22:38.38Russcan you scan it?
23:06.54jacquesRuss: talking to me? scan ?
23:08.02file-mctnlugparental units not found...
23:09.09file-mctnlugparental units foudn
23:09.13file-mctnluger found
23:16.08Russjacques: ya, scan the board
23:17.53jacquesRuss: sorry to be so dense, but do you mean with an image scanner or with some sort of electronics diagnostic tool like a logic probe ?
23:18.31Russlike an image scanner
23:18.34Russat high res
23:25.54jacquesRuss: gotcha - I don't have access to one right now - I know they are cheap but I havent had the need for one
23:26.29Russor photos
23:27.16jacquesyeah there are already some pretty high res phoeos online - let me re-find them
23:27.40jacquesit's an interesting board - space for 2 uarts (nupopulated) and some interesting pads near the proc
23:47.59Russanyone know much about signals crossing split power and/or ground planes?
23:50.34jacquesRuss: see this: http://freenetworks.org/~mattw/photos/linksyswrt54g/gallery/fullsize/IMG_3425.JPG
23:50.51jacquesspace for uarts upper right and interesting pads bottom center near cpu

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