| 00:00.05 | T` | s/guys device/guys decide/ |
| 00:00.39 | kergoth | T`: the amount of clue amongst the managerial staff here is pretty surprising. I can generally pick whatever the cleanest, proper solution is, and run with it. Every driver we develop, for the most part, goes upstream to the omap 2.6 kernel tree |
| 00:00.42 | T` | kergoth, it might be some compatibility thing.. or may be some code reuse thing from past projects ? |
| 00:00.52 | kergoth | and shortly thereafter, gets pushed to russell king via his patch tracking system |
| 00:01.06 | kergoth | TI is one of the few companies i've seen really work with the community the way they should |
| 00:01.13 | T` | i c |
| 00:01.34 | kergoth | since everything is expected to go upstream, they understand that we should be using whatever the most correct methods are upstream |
| 00:01.40 | kergoth | otherwise they wont be accepted.. |
| 00:02.09 | T` | do you guys have wlan drivers :) ? |
| 00:02.20 | T` | like pcmcia or CF based wlan card drivers |
| 00:02.33 | T` | would be helpful cuz i want that on my to-be built board |
| 00:02.42 | kergoth | linux already supports a ton of them |
| 00:03.01 | T` | u can use any linux driver on the omap kernel ? |
| 00:03.57 | kergoth | cf is cf. |
| 00:04.26 | T0mW | grrr "Error: use of old and new-style options to set FPU type" |
| 00:04.28 | kergoth | you can use the normal orinoco_cs drivers for orinoco based cf cards, etc |
| 00:04.34 | kergoth | T0mW: heh. |
| 00:04.35 | T` | aah i c |
| 00:04.42 | kergoth | T0mW: there are patches to take care of that.. |
| 00:04.46 | kergoth | to the kernel, i mean |
| 00:04.49 | T` | well.. by cf i mean mini-pcmcia form factor cards.. |
| 00:04.54 | T0mW | :( brave new world |
| 00:05.01 | T0mW | yeah, |
| 00:05.20 | T0mW | I guess I should go to RMK's site then |
| 00:05.22 | kergoth | i know what compactflash is. i'm the maintainer of openzaurus, one of the most popular linux distros for the sharp zaurus line of pdas. they all have cf slots |
| 00:05.29 | kergoth | T0mW: yeah, hit up the patch tracker. they should all be there |
| 00:05.38 | T` | kergoth, aah :) |
| 00:06.55 | T0mW | what is going to be a real challange is getting the color STN display working, this LH7A400 LCD controller is not a simple one! heh |
| 00:08.21 | T` | T0mW, what display are u using ? |
| 00:08.23 | kergoth | jeeze, fluxbox takes like 4 times longer to start when you're in a utf8 locale |
| 00:08.32 | kergoth | must be doing lots of character set conversions or something |
| 00:09.46 | T0mW | T`: the $99 color STN from EarthLCD: Panasonic EDMGRB8KJK, 640x480 |
| 00:10.26 | T` | wow! only $99 ? that fits my budget :) |
| 00:11.02 | T` | pretty bad quality datasheet however.. |
| 00:11.10 | T0mW | I figure that once I get a kernel running inside this board, I'll start putting together a framebuffer module to insert into the kernel. Then I'll hack the init() to set the regs. |
| 00:11.14 | T` | T0mW, is the lcd controller built-in ? |
| 00:11.30 | T0mW | T`: yeah, it'll handle 1024x768 |
| 00:11.40 | T0mW | T`: DSTN, TFT, etc. |
| 00:11.56 | T` | T0mW, umm.. isnt DSTN, TFT lcd material or something ? |
| 00:12.24 | T0mW | ? |
| 00:12.35 | T` | sorry.. i am not that educated in lcd stuff |
| 00:12.42 | T` | isnt TFT a type of LCD display ? |
| 00:12.52 | T0mW | me neither, they look pretty though. :) |
| 00:13.03 | T` | i think i heard something like TFT screens, etc.. |
| 00:13.18 | T` | thought it had something to do with pixel make material |
| 00:14.12 | T0mW | yeah, different technologies, it is thinner display. IIRC, they reduce the column / row driver electronics with the TFT, etc. STN required more electronics, hence were bulkier |
| 00:14.39 | T` | will the controller be able to support DMA so i can have a local frame buffer to write to ? |
| 00:14.43 | T0mW | yes |
| 00:14.46 | T` | ah neat! |
| 00:14.53 | T0mW | definately! |
| 00:15.00 | T` | i had to SPI the data into it |
| 00:15.02 | kergoth | hmm, earthlcd has some nice stuff |
| 00:15.02 | T` | lol |
| 00:15.21 | T0mW | kergoth: yeah, they are a surplus house |
| 00:15.40 | T` | T0mW, but unfortunatley they prolly wont have models which are in current production.. so cant order huge quantities |
| 00:16.12 | T0mW | kergoth: for $99 I am not expecting much in terms of contrast / brightness of the display, but it should show the customer that I can work with the technologies. |
| 00:16.20 | T` | <T0mW> T`: DSTN, TFT, etc. |
| 00:16.29 | T0mW | kergoth: once I learn this shit |
| 00:16.29 | T` | why do u mention these ? isnt the lcd already some kinda type? |
| 00:16.47 | T0mW | T`: I didn't understand the question |
| 00:17.36 | T0mW | T`: I've only treated LCD as "blackbox" and don't get too involved in how they work. |
| 00:17.46 | T` | well.. if DSTN, TFT, STN, etc.. are types of displays.. then why should the controller support other types? its built-in to the LCD right? |
| 00:18.20 | T` | well.. i was just making sure u really meant the controller was built into the lcd.. :) |
| 00:19.35 | T` | T0mW, woudl you mind telling why u chose that lcd ? |
| 00:21.21 | T0mW | T`: heh, it was cheap, large, and had an integrated touchscreen |
| 00:23.08 | T0mW | T`: no, only the drivers are in the LCD. the dot pushers are in the LCD. The LH7A400 is the "pump" to push the framebuffer data out into the LCD drivers. These LCDs are not like the RS232 type with their own contollers doing the rendering (their own framebuffers) |
| 00:24.00 | T0mW | T`: you would think of the electronics inside the LCD as merely shift registers |
| 00:24.10 | T` | T0mW, hmm.. i c.. so how do you interact with it ? |
| 00:24.24 | T` | T0mW, well.. lets se.. how do u hook the GPIO's of the proc to the lcd ? |
| 00:25.55 | T0mW | several signals: CP (to clock the data into the shift registers), LOAD (to transfer shift data into the driver latches) and FRAME (to restart the line counter back to the first line, top, of the display). |
| 00:26.52 | T` | T0mW, shouldnt that be the DMA controller hardware's job ? |
| 00:26.53 | T0mW | think of the LCD as a raster device, similar to a TV set tube. You have to have a VERTICAL & HORIZONTAL sync pulse, that is FRAME & LOAD respectively. |
| 00:27.19 | T` | T0mW, yea.. i see what you are saying.. i did some circuits for a CCD chip.. this shoulds quite similar to lcd. |
| 00:27.26 | T` | s/shoulds/sounds |
| 00:28.12 | T0mW | T`: DMA controller merely fetches data from the framebuffer RAM and feeds it into the internal LCD controller of the LH7A400 so that the controller can pump the data out into the display. |
| 00:29.09 | T` | T0mW, yea.. but i was thinking for making a driver.. all u had to really do is.. setup a DMA chain with that chipset and it will display the fb ? |
| 00:29.32 | T0mW | T`: your CCD is a good analogy. If you built that circuit with discrete electronics (ICs) then think of the internel LCD controller as the same thing. |
| 00:29.48 | T` | T0mW, no i understand how the driver circuit + controller works |
| 00:29.54 | T0mW | ok |
| 00:30.04 | kergoth | T0mW: you have any recommendations for general books on electronics, digital specifically? |
| 00:30.04 | T` | T0mW, i am more interested in how you will get the linux running proc to interact with it |
| 00:30.36 | T0mW | kergoth: no, I've been doing this kind of work for 26 years now, I learned it on-the-job. |
| 00:30.43 | T` | 26! wow |
| 00:30.48 | T0mW | :( |
| 00:30.56 | kergoth | hrmm |
| 00:31.04 | T0mW | you younger guys have all the good stuff now, not the crap that I started on! |
| 00:31.07 | T` | kergoth, yea.. i think i have the same story.. been doing htis for 2 years.. |
| 00:31.11 | kergoth | you've been doing this for longer than i've been alive |
| 00:31.18 | T0mW | :P |
| 00:31.19 | T` | lol |
| 00:31.31 | T0mW | ~lart sorphin |
| 00:31.38 | T` | T0mW, same with me :) |
| 00:31.52 | T` | kergoth, u can learn from many online projects.. thats what i did |
| 00:32.01 | T0mW | exactly |
| 00:32.05 | T` | kergoth, just download datasheets and start hacking the schematics |
| 00:32.29 | T` | kergoth, when i got stuck, i used to ask a IRC channels |
| 00:32.45 | T` | kergoth, i think thats how i came here first :) i got stuck with some sutpid CF bug and sorphin helped out :)) |
| 00:32.58 | kergoth | right, but i doubt i even have the necessary background to comprehend that. i dont even recall the basic formulas from my courses in the one (and only) year of college i did |
| 00:32.59 | T0mW | schematics & datasheets are how I learned. I worked as a line technician fixing boards at the component level, there I got to see how engineers designed stuff. I "reverse engineered" the stuff to understand how it worked. |
| 00:33.02 | kergoth | heh |
| 00:33.22 | T` | T0mW, agreed |
| 00:33.27 | T0mW | I've built a lot of stuff that didn't work. |
| 00:33.44 | T` | kergoth, cmon.. its not too hard.. dont fear :) |
| 00:33.47 | T0mW | but, I learned why it didn't work before I threw it away. |
| 00:33.51 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:34.04 | T` | kergoth, start with some simple projects |
| 00:34.18 | kergoth | i've had to learn *something* doing drivers, i mean, being able to comprehend the timings in datasheets so i dont fuck up chips, and stuff |
| 00:34.22 | kergoth | but beyond that.. |
| 00:34.26 | kergoth | :) |
| 00:34.27 | T0mW | kergoth: look at my site, at the EZ328SIMM + EZ328LCD. That was a learning experience: embedding linux. |
| 00:34.37 | kergoth | k |
| 00:34.37 | T` | T0mW, what site ? |
| 00:34.49 | T0mW | T`: http://www.openhardware.net |
| 00:34.59 | T` | aah nice site! |
| 00:35.03 | T` | sitename i mean |
| 00:35.11 | T0mW | ~tomw? |
| 00:35.13 | ibot | hmm... tomw is at tom@openhardware.net |
| 00:35.46 | T0mW | ~tomw is also has a website at http://www.openhardware.net |
| 00:35.47 | ibot | T0mW: okay |
| 00:35.51 | T0mW | ~tomw? |
| 00:35.52 | ibot | tomw is, like, at tom@openhardware.net, or has a website at http://www.openhardware.net |
| 00:35.56 | T` | yakkk! dragonballz! |
| 00:36.00 | T0mW | heh |
| 00:36.04 | T0mW | uClinux too |
| 00:36.05 | *** join/#elinux [mYa]_KiD_Reles (~cd@pD9E55A5D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:36.46 | T0mW | There is about $12K dollars investment into learning to embedd linux there |
| 00:37.01 | T` | T0mW, do u have a range of dev tools at your home ? |
| 00:37.20 | T` | T0mW, like oscilloscopes, digital analizer, soldering bench, microscope, etc. |
| 00:37.47 | kergoth | heh, speaking of which, any recommendations for scopes? |
| 00:37.54 | kergoth | they can get awfully pricey |
| 00:37.56 | T0mW | that also included EagleCAD to design the surface mount boards and some surface mount soldering equipment: zyphertronics hot air system. |
| 00:37.57 | T` | kergoth, they are expensive :( atlesat for me |
| 00:38.14 | T` | T0mW, aah nice.. we got some kickass tools at our lab |
| 00:38.33 | T0mW | T`: binocular 10x/20x microscope, 100MHz `scope, etc. |
| 00:38.33 | T` | T0mW, i think i already have a $20k wishlist of tools once i graduate and get a job |
| 00:38.57 | T` | T0mW, do u work or retired ? |
| 00:39.03 | T0mW | T`: just collect the stuff as you go along. all you really need is the scope |
| 00:39.20 | T0mW | T`: don't I wish, I've been consulting for the past 10 years |
| 00:39.34 | T` | ah i c |
| 00:40.54 | T` | TOmW |
| 00:40.58 | T0mW | I've been fortunate to have seen two revolutions: the 8080 and the internet |
| 00:41.14 | T` | T0mW, err.. i saw a nice tektronic handheld scope |
| 00:41.20 | T0mW | heh |
| 00:41.34 | T` | T0mW, something like $2k i think.. someone at vmware let me borrow it when i was interning there :) |
| 00:41.36 | T0mW | yeah, but a desktop model is cheaper with better resolution |
| 00:41.56 | T` | T0mW, yup.. with a picture tube display :) |
| 00:41.57 | T0mW | You can pick up a nice 100Mhz model off ebay for < $400 |
| 00:42.13 | T0mW | prolly < $200 |
| 00:42.18 | T` | T0mW, 100Mhz might be obselete when i get out of college |
| 00:42.27 | T` | T0mW, i need 1Ghz scope :] |
| 00:42.40 | T` | or 10Ghz ! |
| 00:43.29 | T0mW | T`: that is why they taught you to use a calculator, so you wouldn't need the 1GHz scope to see your problems. You spend a lot of time, in design, working the numbers (prop delays) with a calculator |
| 00:43.50 | T` | T0mW, hehe.. just kidding |
| 00:44.13 | T` | T0mW, but i see the trend to high speed circuits increasing pretty fast |
| 00:44.15 | T0mW | yeah, but some guys aren't kidding. Too many engineers don't know how to "think". ;) |
| 00:44.41 | T` | T0mW, hehe.. sometimes i dont think either.. just brute force |
| 00:45.00 | T0mW | hey, I've got to get back to the jflash + wiggler stuff to get something workable inside this devkit. later |
| 00:45.09 | T` | ok i gtg too |
| 00:45.12 | T` | later |
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