| 00:03.33 | CosmicPenguin | chouimat: the punchline is that its a real burger: http://www.cspinet.org/new/200312051.html |
| 00:13.23 | chouimat|ibook | CosmicPenguin: sound good ... but if you eat that everyday you're a moron ... |
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| 00:14.14 | CosmicPenguin | chouimat: you won't be a moron for long if you keep eating those |
| 00:14.49 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: once in a while I don't say no |
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| 01:44.37 | sorphin | prpplague: re hillbilly |
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| 02:13.20 | prpplague | sorphin: hey |
| 02:13.38 | prpplague | wheres kergy? |
| 02:48.12 | sorphin | no idea |
| 02:59.07 | andersee | sorphin: you mean people sometimes _leave_? |
| 03:00.35 | T0mW | what's a "kergy" ? |
| 03:00.46 | T0mW | sounds like a finger-food |
| 03:01.38 | chouimat | wow the more you sleep the less fat you get ... so wtf I have to loose 30lbs I sleep 10-12hours everyday |
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| 04:00.06 | prpplague | hehe |
| 04:00.12 | prpplague | you guys are a riot |
| 04:02.24 | T0mW | prpplague: huh? |
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| 05:06.44 | cdm | evening. |
| 05:06.54 | T0mW | morning |
| 05:23.31 | *** join/#elinux fog_proxy (~fog_proxy@61.177.58.60) |
| 05:23.59 | fog_proxy | Hi all,is there any mini http library i can used to program a http based application? |
| 05:24.43 | fog_proxy | I found libghttp,but it do not support ssl and not updated for a long time |
| 05:25.05 | fog_proxy | libcurl seems too big and not easy to use |
| 05:26.34 | T0mW | fog_proxy: you might look at boa ? |
| 05:27.45 | T0mW | boa is a lightweight http server, I don't know if it will handle ssl though. |
| 05:38.02 | fog_proxy | T0mW, i am not searching a http server,just a http library |
| 05:38.21 | fog_proxy | T0mW, i want to use the api for method GET or POST |
| 05:39.11 | T0mW | well, isn't that an http server? |
| 05:39.22 | T0mW | GET & POST ? |
| 05:39.39 | fog_proxy | T0mW, it not a server,what i want is just a client |
| 05:39.57 | T0mW | so, you want to render forms then |
| 05:40.26 | fog_proxy | T0mW, y |
| 05:40.29 | T0mW | what it sounds like is that you're looking for a rendering engine? |
| 05:40.34 | T0mW | um |
| 05:42.26 | T0mW | I don't think you'll find a "library" to do rendering. That is more the task of an engine of sorts. |
| 05:43.01 | T0mW | unless you find something written in perl? |
| 05:44.09 | fog_proxy | T0mW, hmm...maybe i need code for myself |
| 05:44.12 | T0mW | fog_proxy: you might want to check back in the daytime (U.S.) as most of the guys are asleep. |
| 05:44.57 | fog_proxy | T0mW, i think so,but not only the U.S. peoples here,right? |
| 05:46.06 | T0mW | well, the most actives are from Western Europe + U.S.A. |
| 05:47.24 | T0mW | I'm just waiting for two compiles to finish out then I'm calling it a night as well |
| 05:48.10 | fog_proxy | T0mW, you are from U.S.A? |
| 05:48.35 | T0mW | hopefully one of them will be successfull. Yeah, Pennsylvania (East Coast of U.S.) |
| 05:49.26 | fog_proxy | T0mW, good luck,i think i need ask for help later :) |
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| 09:30.05 | *** mode/#elinux [+v mallum] by ChanServ |
| 10:05.15 | T0mW | mallum: good morning |
| 10:13.46 | mallum | hey T0mW |
| 10:15.09 | T0mW | What's happening over on your side? We got some snow last night |
| 10:15.52 | T0mW | I'm just wading through some perl code trying to figure out how to make it work. |
| 10:22.01 | mallum | ewe |
| 10:22.22 | mallum | T0mW, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4167071.stm |
| 10:23.07 | T0mW | more to the point, I should say that I am puzzling over some regex in perl trying to figure out what it is saying. |
| 10:23.09 | T0mW | heh |
| 10:23.50 | T0mW | ooo! 125mph wind?! |
| 10:24.54 | T0mW | we had some ice storms pass through the area Thursday + Friday, I lost power for about 36 hours. |
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| 13:41.54 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:42.37 | *** part/#elinux ade|desk (~adavey@194.200.143.249) |
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| 15:24.35 | prpplague | T0mW: http://www.techsol.ca/html/products/CPU_backSide.jpg |
| 15:24.51 | prpplague | T0mW: whats the name of the style of connector on that board? |
| 15:31.21 | *** join/#elinux pb_ (~pb@2002:3e03:42cc:2:20a:5eff:fe00:391e) |
| 15:31.29 | prpplague | pb_: hey hey |
| 15:32.13 | pb_ | prpplague: yo |
| 15:33.38 | sorphin | prpplague: moin hillbilly |
| 15:33.40 | sorphin | pb_: wotcher |
| 15:33.45 | pb_ | hi sorphin |
| 15:33.52 | sorphin | pb_: how's things mate? |
| 15:40.17 | CosmicAtHome | morning |
| 15:51.58 | sorphin | CosmicAtHome: morning |
| 15:52.22 | CosmicPenguin | doh, I hate it when I forget to change my name |
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| 15:56.33 | *** join/#elinux mallum_ (~mallum@host81-155-188-174.range81-155.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:03.30 | sorphin | GPSFan: moin |
| 16:03.33 | sorphin | mallum_: wotcher |
| 16:05.26 | mallum_ | hey sorphin |
| 16:05.34 | mallum_ | sorphin, I've been messing with voip |
| 16:05.46 | mallum_ | sorphin, actually made a call now |
| 16:07.16 | sorphin | mallum_: cool |
| 16:07.34 | sorphin | mallum_: can you call any international PSTN? ;) |
| 16:08.04 | mallum_ | sorphin, I should be able to, I bought credit from voiptalk.org but they appear to be a bunch of fuckwits |
| 16:08.15 | mallum_ | sorphin, can call fwp numbers, 1-800 ones |
| 16:08.23 | mallum_ | sorphin, speak to at&t operator |
| 16:09.34 | mallum_ | sorphin, all the linux softphones seem pretty shitty though |
| 16:10.21 | GPSFan | sorphin: hey, after 5 days of rain we now have snow,snow,snow... |
| 16:11.11 | sorphin | mallum_: i only use hw phones |
| 16:11.27 | sorphin | GPSFan: been rain/fog past couple days, and now todya it's 65, heh |
| 16:11.31 | sorphin | strange weather here |
| 16:11.38 | mallum_ | sorphin, yeah I will have to order one |
| 16:12.03 | sorphin | mallum_: wish i hadn't tossed mine out (cuz now i'm having to find one, and they're a pain to get a good one cheap) |
| 16:12.11 | mallum_ | sorphin, hw phone <- sip -> asterisk <- fw -> fwd ? |
| 16:12.18 | mallum_ | iax to fwd |
| 16:12.29 | sorphin | mallum_: something like that, yeah |
| 16:13.12 | mallum_ | sorphin, yeah its all very confusing :/ |
| 16:16.01 | sorphin | mallum_: there is atleast one phone that can speak IAX natively, but otherwise it's not that bad |
| 16:27.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: gotta write up a presentation for next week t |
| 16:27.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: suppose to come up with some ideas to make the m7100 more attractive to OSS developers |
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| 16:31.01 | cdm | morning. |
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| 16:58.08 | sorphin | cdm: there you are |
| 16:59.48 | cdm | sorphin, ? |
| 17:00.36 | sorphin | cdm: gotten to look at the new mac mini? |
| 17:01.47 | *** join/#elinux Toi (~pleemans@d54C27A14.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:02.05 | cdm | oh yeah sure - it's on the show floor. |
| 17:02.10 | cdm | been waiting to see one for months now. |
| 17:06.40 | sorphin | cdm: i'm pondering one... someday.. stupid house buying crap |
| 17:09.16 | cdm | :) |
| 17:13.13 | prpplague | anyone know anything about the mini-pci interface? |
| 17:13.51 | *** part/#elinux ade|desk (~adavey@194.200.143.249) |
| 17:14.47 | pb_ | prpplague: afaik, it's just a subset of PCI in a different (but not entirely standardised) form factor. |
| 17:16.09 | prpplague | pb_: ahh |
| 17:16.33 | prpplague | pb_: hey, you happen to know of any good 802.11 oem modules? |
| 17:17.17 | pb_ | prpplague: 802.11b PCMCIA/CF oem modules are ten a penny. I think we were talking to Easix about some of those a while back. |
| 17:17.43 | pb_ | for USB, could try someone like Ambit or Edimax. |
| 17:17.48 | prpplague | pb_: yea, finding a good supplier of cf based ones is getting hard |
| 17:18.45 | pb_ | http://www.pcisig.com/news_room/faqs#mini_pci has some words about minipci |
| 17:20.03 | prpplague | pb_: thanks |
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| 18:07.38 | prpplague | TimRiker: hey timmy |
| 18:16.46 | dsaxena | anyone here going to be @ FOSDEM? |
| 18:18.04 | prpplague | hehe, not me |
| 18:22.44 | pb_ | dsaxena: yah |
| 18:24.08 | prpplague | pb_: hehe, guess thats only a short trip for you |
| 18:27.40 | pb_ | prpplague: right, it's about a three-hour train ride from here. |
| 18:29.17 | prpplague | pb_: nice scenery? |
| 18:29.49 | pb_ | heh. no, not especially, but I guess I can live with that. |
| 18:36.55 | jacques | lol |
| 18:37.20 | jacques | you've never driven I-10 across west texas |
| 18:37.27 | CosmicPenguin | Holy crap, that was a meeting to end all meetings |
| 18:38.27 | pb_ | jacques: true enough, I never have |
| 18:39.08 | jacques | everything is scenic compared to that |
| 18:40.00 | prpplague | jacques: hehe, i've done that |
| 18:40.07 | prpplague | jacques: man is that fun |
| 18:40.13 | jacques | yah :-\ |
| 18:41.45 | prpplague | jacques: only thing better is i-40 through new mexico |
| 18:42.20 | CosmicPenguin | I-80 through Wyoming? |
| 18:42.36 | jacques | that go through Albuquerque? I've done that |
| 18:44.56 | prpplague | jacques: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1&zoom=3&mapdata=slIDb%2fBv9J9NSjXXLnbX%2bBeWfdqb3VasJIBcbtH0BwTQWER6wj4ENwjPUcIspG0yjCvKADCI8%2fGYxF95Mf18OM4alP2XbFR3pC2%2bohHwCTKL0KfSA9Usn4U62ZFIixiRWatXN3QpjlRpiuHxjrUGHm8zis4BU%2fgZWZpEYZevNa2nb%2bcd6j05tv2B0Q1rK9aGeG1KdBqoVYgvRzdhaiuGXGsKY%2byQgmsUzIBlCEIUmamMd4LvjBiB9LT5VYVPc%2b2jQzSEGXelZQIxbiNvLJIc8v5NcSqAz5TCfVEkNiuZ1yMkNewIw57JqFGLlTgCBViP%2fPlnWhzBq2rhtF26I7jeDlLDMnZtam%2b%2bOqwtuMQS |
| 18:44.56 | prpplague | l5fpALaoCQz9%2bQvOugQ8PrGJVRIY%2bl0HpBGH3TDUUtjvVII7MKB5RvYR2t2mP2dNKnLtawnv01Mq51g02bSXoprP |
| 18:45.00 | prpplague | yikes |
| 18:45.05 | prpplague | didn't mean to do that |
| 18:45.09 | prpplague | sorry folks |
| 18:45.38 | prpplague | jacques: yea that goes through albuquerque |
| 18:45.39 | CosmicPenguin | my eyes! The goggles, they do nothing! |
| 18:45.57 | CosmicPenguin | Don't forget to turn left in Albuquerque |
| 18:46.02 | jacques | heh |
| 18:46.04 | CosmicPenguin | Otherwise, bad stuff might happen to you |
| 18:46.11 | CosmicPenguin | I saw a documentary on it once |
| 18:46.17 | jacques | that a bugs bunny quote? |
| 18:46.35 | CosmicPenguin | More of on an ongoing bugs bunny gag |
| 18:46.47 | CosmicPenguin | He *always* makes a wrong turn in Albuqurque |
| 18:48.44 | *** join/#elinux George___ (george@83.146.61.45) |
| 18:48.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: iirc, back when route66 ran through albuquerque, that was a confusing road split where if you wanted to stay on route66 you had to stay/turn to the left |
| 18:49.02 | prpplague | s/that/there |
| 18:49.16 | CosmicPenguin | And thats the origin of the Bug's Bunny thing? |
| 18:49.18 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: otherwise you ended up on one of the local roads |
| 18:49.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 18:49.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.historic66.com/new-mexico/det-nm3.html |
| 18:54.41 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: holy crap - these people are really obsessed, aren't they? |
| 19:00.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe yea |
| 19:01.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm really freaky about knowing where quotes and sayings come from |
| 19:02.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i used to torture my old boss by responding to some of his complaints with "who is john galt?" |
| 19:03.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: took him months to figure out what that meant |
| 19:07.28 | CosmicPenguin | Well, thats sort of sad |
| 19:07.46 | CosmicPenguin | Of course, my boss hasn't read Atlas Shrugged either |
| 19:09.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, another one was was when we doing a project i sent an email where i told mangement that i "needed more documentation so that a reasonable rosetta stone could be created" |
| 19:09.18 | chouimat | prpplague: ouch |
| 19:10.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: when the three top management ppl called me to the conference room, i nearlly laughed my ass of when they asked why they hadn't been consulted about some project called "rosetta stone" |
| 19:11.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: spent the next 10 minutes trying to explain what the rosetta stone was and how i was using it in the syntence |
| 19:11.16 | chouimat | prpplague: ROFTL |
| 19:11.57 | prpplague | chouimat: i swear, all three had college degrees, and not one of them knew what the rosetta stone was |
| 19:12.17 | CosmicPenguin | That should be grounds for dismissal |
| 19:12.29 | chouimat | prpplague: so i guess they don't teach world history in the us |
| 19:13.13 | CosmicPenguin | chouimat: to be fair thats really not a huge milestone in human history |
| 19:13.18 | CosmicPenguin | I mean, its cool and all |
| 19:13.34 | prpplague | chouimat: they teach it, but imho, 90% of public education is what is just learn enough to take the test and forget it |
| 19:13.37 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: i know but i kind of got fed up with it |
| 19:14.06 | CosmicPenguin | See the problem is that the pipe is only so big, and the day is only so long |
| 19:14.21 | CosmicPenguin | So we have people come in and complain that we don't know some moderately important fact about say, Italy |
| 19:14.22 | chouimat | prpplague: that explain why people are dumbs these day |
| 19:14.30 | CosmicPenguin | and people complain that US schools don't teach history |
| 19:14.38 | CosmicPenguin | But the honest truth is that we learn the history that affected us |
| 19:14.47 | CosmicPenguin | You people don't bother learning about the US civil war do you? |
| 19:15.06 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: when the Roman Empire Falls? |
| 19:15.06 | CosmicPenguin | So if a European knows nothing about Fort Sumter, am I allowed to call him stupid? |
| 19:15.24 | CosmicPenguin | But you have no problem calling an American stupid if he doesn't know where Napolean was exiled to |
| 19:15.27 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: no ... iirc 1861? |
| 19:15.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: agreed, but there are some very important things that i feel relate to awarding someone a college degree |
| 19:15.33 | CosmicPenguin | See, there you go |
| 19:16.24 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: oh, no doubt, but my point is that one persons history is another persons useless trivia |
| 19:16.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: agreed |
| 19:17.22 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: however, all three of these ppl were suppose to be managment, yet, they didn't have a clue about managment techniques and worse, they didn't even bother trying to educate themselves |
| 19:17.30 | CosmicPenguin | see, now thats just sad |
| 19:17.38 | CosmicPenguin | Know how to do what you're paid to do |
| 19:18.09 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: this discussion is pointless anyway ... well all know that the human race is dumb anyway and if people commited suicide because they stupid I think we will have an acceptable suicide rates |
| 19:19.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: well not only that, when i left abcs, i spoke to the owner of the company, and asked "is there any doubt in your mind, that i couldn't do the job of any person at abcs on 5 minutes notice?" |
| 19:19.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: he responded and said he was sure i could, and then i said "then why do you not demand that your managers learn more about the jobs and they are supose to be managing?" |
| 19:20.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: he responded with what i think is exactly the problem at abcs, he said "managers don't need to know anything other than how to manage" |
| 19:22.35 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe well they didn't have me anymore at that point, that was my last day |
| 19:23.55 | chouimat | prpplague: when I was at xandros they hired me to make a firewall easy enough to be usable by my grandmother so I answered Don't plug the computer in the wall .... they didn't laughed at all |
| 19:24.53 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: heh |
| 19:25.03 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: my boss actually used the "We should hire people smarter then us" line |
| 19:25.35 | chouimat | prpplague: and I got a lot of shaddap you don't know what you're talking about from the management everytime I proposed stuff for the firewall ... but when I had questions about what they wanted I always got We don't know you're the expert in firewall |
| 19:25.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what gets me, is that these ppl had degrees |
| 19:25.59 | prpplague | chouimat: btdr |
| 19:26.01 | prpplague | btdt |
| 19:26.37 | chouimat | prpplague: so when I got laid off I was laughing and very very happy to leave that place ... |
| 19:26.46 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, but degrees in what? |
| 19:26.59 | CosmicPenguin | My boss has a masters degree in aerodynamics |
| 19:27.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: biz |
| 19:27.47 | CosmicPenguin | Will all due respect to my beautiful wife, I know exactly what a business degree is worht |
| 19:27.50 | chouimat | CosmicPenguin: one of mine had a BSc in CS and the other had a BSc in CS and a MBA |
| 19:28.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 19:28.35 | chouimat | and some marketing stuff too |
| 19:29.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: still, it amazes me that someone would choose a field like management, and not know about management |
| 19:29.35 | TimRiker | tivo is looking for a tester in san jose. |
| 19:30.00 | prpplague | TimRiker: linux tester? |
| 19:30.39 | TimRiker | epp. meeting... |
| 19:30.49 | prpplague | doh |
| 19:30.49 | CosmicPenguin | Can a tester even afford to live in San Jose? |
| 19:31.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: someone was posting on dice.com about a stb job in san jose paying aroung $120k but i figure thats chump change for that area |
| 19:32.56 | *** join/#elinux pb_ (~pb@2002:5168:d330:1:20b:6aff:fe40:e27f) |
| 19:33.03 | CosmicPenguin | 120k *might* put you within 30 minutes of work |
| 19:33.03 | prpplague | pb_: yo! |
| 19:33.40 | prpplague | pb_: did you see "28 days later" ? |
| 19:36.47 | pb_ | prpplague: g'day. |
| 19:37.02 | pb_ | prpplague: heh, I have the DVD on my shelf, but haven't watched it yet |
| 19:38.12 | CosmicPenguin | Ahhh.... new hires with masters degrees are so cute |
| 19:44.07 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: a friend of mine makes ~$120k and lived in walnut creek, worked in SF |
| 19:46.02 | chouimat | sorphin: how much hours to get to work:) |
| 19:47.44 | sorphin | chouimat: he's at work in maybe 30-45 mins |
| 19:47.55 | sorphin | CosmicPenguin: east bay, across the bay from oakland |
| 19:50.17 | CosmicPenguin | nice place? |
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| 20:01.34 | prpplague | wonder whats up with kergoth`bbl |
| 20:02.00 | CosmicPenguin | Hopefully still busy and not jobless |
| 20:02.26 | prpplague | argh, my head is killing me and my productivity today |
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| 20:36.22 | sorphin | dont' suppose anyone here's done dhtml+forms eh? |
| 20:40.55 | CosmicPenguin | Not on purpose |
| 20:41.41 | sorphin | heh |
| 20:49.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.dsimprove.be/forums/read.php?f=20&i=16&t=16&ForumLang=lang/english.php |
| 20:50.14 | *** join/#elinux richter (~ghess@x1-6-00-50-18-2a-c1-79.k114.webspeed.dk) |
| 20:50.23 | pb_ | prpplague: let's hope kergoth`bbl hasn't overslept again |
| 20:50.24 | CosmicPenguin | What the hell? |
| 20:50.34 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: what is that? |
| 20:50.36 | richter | somebody now fedora |
| 20:50.49 | richter | asking from denmark |
| 20:51.40 | richter | Kernel Panic - not syncing: No init found. Try passing init = option to kernel |
| 20:52.01 | richter | I also got the same problems in version 2.6.9-1.667/724 and now 737, but before i cut use the rescue disk on the Fedora DVD. |
| 20:52.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just some page i was looking at posts and ran across that |
| 20:52.38 | prpplague | richter: might want to try a fedora support channel |
| 20:53.01 | richter | there is nowbody there are anwering |
| 20:53.09 | CosmicPenguin | Hey, check it out - Century released Pixil Thin Client |
| 20:53.13 | sorphin | this isn't a generic linux help channel, sorry. |
| 20:53.33 | richter | ok sorry |
| 20:54.08 | *** part/#elinux richter (~ghess@x1-6-00-50-18-2a-c1-79.k114.webspeed.dk) |
| 20:55.09 | CosmicPenguin | Ohh, they took apart a treo 650 |
| 20:57.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: where? |
| 21:01.08 | CosmicPenguin | in our systems lab |
| 21:01.25 | CosmicPenguin | compact little bugger |
| 21:03.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: isn't the treo series omap based? |
| 21:04.00 | CosmicPenguin | PXA |
| 21:04.25 | prpplague | ahh |
| 21:07.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: my brain hurts |
| 21:07.46 | CosmicPenguin | damn sinuses |
| 21:07.57 | CosmicPenguin | I've had a head cold for a week now - so I sort of feel your pain |
| 21:13.14 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you going to buy the new Leapfrog pen? |
| 21:13.56 | *** part/#elinux sorphin (sorphin@mewp.captainrock.com) |
| 21:21.50 | jacques | that would be fun to hack |
| 21:24.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: no, i don't think so, i'm totally disgusted with leapfrog and their attitude towards thirdpty developers |
| 21:25.15 | prpplague | jacques: pixter is more fun |
| 21:25.33 | CosmicPenguin | Well, to be fair, none of these companies probably want you messing with their stuff |
| 21:26.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: agreed, but since i know that fisher-price is planning more models based on the same core, it just makes more sense to go with it |
| 21:26.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: plus much more docs available |
| 21:27.12 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, yeah, ok |
| 21:27.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: arctangent (comapny that makes the processors for leapfrog) is a bastard about their docs |
| 21:27.39 | jacques | crud, another broadcom I guess |
| 21:28.38 | prpplague | http://www.arc.com/configurablecores/arc700/ |
| 21:32.15 | jacques | I don't suppose there are any armeb toolchain gurus here ? |
| 21:33.15 | CosmicPenguin | Hmmm.... debugfs looks pretty cool |
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| 21:58.18 | pb_ | jacques: I'm not sure there are any armeb toolchain gurus anywhere. armeb is kind of a fringe interest. |
| 21:59.09 | jacques | pb_, d`oh |
| 21:59.40 | jacques | I'm having a devil of a time getting a working native toolchain for the stock linksys glibc 2.2.5 libs |
| 21:59.55 | jacques | heck I'm not even sure a 2.2.5 native is possible |
| 22:00.01 | pb_ | jacques: linksys must have applied patches to 2.2.5 |
| 22:00.22 | prpplague | armeb? |
| 22:00.26 | jacques | yah |
| 22:00.26 | pb_ | I'm not convinced it works out of the box even for armel, and I'm almost certain it does not work for armeb. |
| 22:00.35 | pb_ | prpplague: arm, evil big-endian |
| 22:00.38 | jacques | pb_, that's what I was afraid of |
| 22:00.41 | prpplague | pb_: ahh |
| 22:01.21 | pb_ | jacques: functions like strlen() have been broken for big endian since time immemorial |
| 22:01.29 | pb_ | likewise the floating point stuff |
| 22:02.11 | jacques | the 3.3.4/2.2.5 armeb float stuff is really confusing me |
| 22:02.36 | jacques | we build a soft-float xchain and that makes binaries that work, implying the stock libs are soft-float |
| 22:02.59 | jacques | yet a fp kernel patch fixed some problems we were seeing |
| 22:03.07 | jacques | implying there's some hard float involved |
| 22:03.23 | pb_ | freaky |
| 22:03.33 | pb_ | well, objdump should reveal the truth in short order. |
| 22:03.47 | jacques | oooh I was wondering if there was a way to tell |
| 22:03.59 | jacques | how would I use it to find out? |
| 22:04.00 | pb_ | disassemble some binaries or libraries from the stock distro and see if they contain any fp opcodes. |
| 22:04.22 | jacques | ah right, and if they do, it's hard (at least partially) |
| 22:04.25 | pb_ | anything built against a hard-float glibc will include at least a wfs instruction from the crt startup code. |
| 22:04.35 | pb_ | yeah, exactly |
| 22:05.14 | jacques | someone was saying that even a soft-float 3.3.4/2.2.5 toolchain emits some hard fp opcodes |
| 22:05.22 | jacques | that make any sense to you? |
| 22:05.28 | pb_ | no, that's bogus |
| 22:05.38 | jacques | that's how they explained the kernel patch fixing things |
| 22:05.59 | pb_ | well, I guess there might be a bug causing that to happen, but it certainly isn't how it's meant to work. |
| 22:06.03 | jacques | on 2.6/3.4.3/2.3.3 things are sane |
| 22:06.30 | jacques | we had float problems, on a soft system applied a patch to glibc and they were fixed - no kernel patch required |
| 22:06.32 | pb_ | if you have any fpa opcodes at all, your binary will be incompatible with stuff like WMMX. |
| 22:07.02 | pb_ | right, that sounds quite likely. |
| 22:07.40 | jacques | I'm not even sure what I'm trying to do is possible - build a shared lib native soft armeb 2.4.22/3.3.4/2.2.5 toolchain |
| 22:08.02 | jacques | but ppl want a native compiler for their unslung, and it seemed like a challenge (probably too much of one) |
| 22:10.03 | jacques | with the popularity of the ixp's running in BE I would hope armeb is becoming less fringe, but anyone sane will be using 2.6/3.4+/2.3+ |
| 22:10.36 | jacques | and I haven't even started on binutils versions :-\ |
| 22:10.41 | pb_ | true |
| 22:11.11 | prpplague | jacques: why aren't you doing something _really_ useful like hacking on the pixter? hehe |
| 22:11.19 | jacques | heh :-) |
| 22:11.30 | pb_ | jacques: by the way, are you planning to go to lwe in boston next month? |
| 22:11.32 | CosmicPenguin | shameless plug |
| 22:11.56 | jacques | pb_, I'd love to but I am sans income these days :-\ |
| 22:12.09 | pb_ | jacques: ah, that's too bad |
| 22:12.14 | jacques | would probably cost me a month's living expenses to go :-\ |
| 22:12.19 | pb_ | doh |
| 22:12.44 | jacques | if anyone wants to fly me out there and put me to work, I have nothing but time :-D |
| 22:13.24 | pb_ | jacques: what became of that stuff you were doing with Zach? |
| 22:14.09 | jacques | zach had a drastic change of priorities after his hospital stay |
| 22:14.18 | pb_ | ah |
| 22:14.22 | CosmicPenguin | those things tend to happen |
| 22:14.28 | jacques | I don't think he's touched a computer in months |
| 22:14.44 | prpplague | jacques: what happened? |
| 22:14.46 | jacques | yeah those things happen and tend to be unexpected |
| 22:14.51 | pb_ | right, I had forgotten that he got hospitalized. |
| 22:15.10 | jacques | he collapsed a lung |
| 22:15.23 | prpplague | yikes |
| 22:15.41 | CosmicPenguin | funerals and hospital stays are exellent oppertunities to figure out your ife isn't exactly what they promised in the brochure |
| 22:15.44 | jacques | was in hospital for almost two weeks - he hoped it would heal but ended up having to have surgery |
| 22:16.09 | jacques | CosmicPenguin, yep |
| 22:16.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and divorces |
| 22:16.33 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 22:17.03 | jacques | my lease is up in mid july |
| 22:17.15 | jacques | by then I plan to have a plan |
| 22:17.16 | jacques | :-) |
| 22:17.16 | CosmicPenguin | I know more then a few people that have made divorce their first step |
| 22:17.20 | pb_ | CosmicPenguin: funeral is probably leaving it a bit too late to do anything with that knowledge, I guess. |
| 22:17.29 | CosmicPenguin | pb_: other peoples funerals... :) |
| 22:17.38 | prpplague | jacques: changing jobs or something? |
| 22:17.40 | jacques | I could end up moving to portland or across the country |
| 22:17.57 | pb_ | ah, I thought you were in portland already. |
| 22:17.58 | prpplague | jacques: where are you now? |
| 22:18.00 | jacques | prpplague, right now I am unemployed - not too many prospects in the small town I am in right now |
| 22:18.08 | jacques | corvallis - 70 miles south of portland |
| 22:18.13 | prpplague | jacques: btdt |
| 22:18.16 | pb_ | oh right, yeah, I remember now |
| 22:18.23 | jacques | I applied for a job at the university but didn't get it :-\ |
| 22:18.46 | prpplague | jacques: hehe, you could move to big D in a few months, i have it on good authority there will be a job opening, hehe |
| 22:19.17 | jacques | prpplague, heh as much as I intend to return to tx at some point, dallas is not on my list :-) now austin... |
| 22:19.37 | pb_ | prpplague: heh, it sounds like there will be a job opening in the omap team within days if not hours |
| 22:19.38 | prpplague | jacques: hehe, amd alchemy stuff is based there |
| 22:19.48 | prpplague | pb_: hehe |
| 22:20.07 | prpplague | pb_: yea, i feel bad for old kergoth |
| 22:20.19 | pb_ | yeah, he seems to be having a hard time of it lately. |
| 22:20.38 | jacques | he seems depressed |
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| 22:21.52 | jacques | I frequently am involved in things long before they are cool, but by the time they are mainstream I have missed the boat |
| 22:22.46 | jacques | I was running the first web business in houston in 94 but I totally missed my chance to move to bay area in 95-97 and make a mint |
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| 22:23.04 | prpplague | jacques: yea, i have that problem too |
| 22:23.36 | jacques | I've been hacking embedded linux since ipaq in 2000, but now that hacking custom firmware for linux based devices looks to get big, I probably won't catch that wave either :-( |
| 22:23.53 | prpplague | jacques: whys that? |
| 22:24.32 | jacques | I'm just being pessimistic I guess - I have been thinking lately of how to make a living doing that sort of thing |
| 22:25.17 | prpplague | jacques: you;d be surprised how many companies have elinux wannabies doing their firmware dev |
| 22:25.35 | prpplague | jacques: when i got to aml, their code was a mess |
| 22:27.03 | prpplague | jacques: you think you do a bsp bring up? |
| 22:28.06 | prpplague | andersee: hey, did you get my message about the bb hall of shame updates? |
| 22:29.02 | jacques | I know my way around the toolchain and kernel parts of that, but I am not really a kernel hacker - zach and I did a lot on the gumstix (they were in a sad state whem we got them - customers 9 and 10) but he did the kernel parts, I did toolchains and dist stuff, and getting it booting to jffs2 |
| 22:29.31 | jacques | I was also first to get nslu2 booting to jffs2 (that we know of) :-) |
| 22:30.27 | jacques | but if writing custom kernel drivers is required I haventt done that |
| 22:30.34 | prpplague | jacques: hehe, thats probably plenty, you've probably got enough experience to get a bsp job easy |
| 22:31.01 | jacques | I updated my resume for the university job |
| 22:31.46 | jacques | ipaq, intimate dist, tuxscreens, gumstix, and now nslu2 are the highlights for embedded |
| 22:32.13 | prpplague | jacques: hehe, you outta pester dsaxena, he's in the portland area iirc |
| 22:32.26 | jacques | yeah I should :-) |
| 22:32.31 | CosmicPenguin | mv has a portland plant? |
| 22:32.49 | jacques | mv ? |
| 22:32.58 | jacques | monta vista |
| 22:33.15 | jacques | (I always forget if it's monta or monte) |
| 22:33.49 | jacques | they actually called me when I was looking to move to bay area, but I'd already accepted another position |
| 22:34.20 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not sure what dsaxena does there in portland |
| 22:34.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: iirc, he said he mainly does community support/liason stuff |
| 22:35.38 | T0mW | good morning |
| 22:35.54 | jacques | heh > 64 minutes to build binutils on the nslu2 |
| 22:35.56 | prpplague | T0mW: hey |
| 22:36.02 | jacques | morning T0mW :-) |
| 22:36.26 | T0mW | you know, one of those "just let try this first" nights? |
| 22:36.47 | T0mW | heh, well, I tried it all and none of it worked. :( |
| 22:36.59 | jacques | are you talking about a date ? |
| 22:37.05 | andersee | prpplague: yeah, saw it |
| 22:37.09 | T0mW | oh, I wish |
| 22:37.15 | jacques | :-D |
| 22:37.21 | T0mW | jacques: I'll try that tonite |
| 22:37.23 | andersee | prpplague: I was out of town this past week, and I'm still quite behind on email |
| 22:37.25 | prpplague | andersee: oh ok, just was curious about the status of a few |
| 22:37.39 | prpplague | andersee: oh ok, not like it was important |
| 22:39.04 | andersee | prpplague: to be honest, I probably need some help managing the hall of shame |
| 22:39.22 | prpplague | hehe |
| 22:39.23 | T0mW | I made the mistake of having the new mail server bounce undeliverable mail... now, I get over a hundred spam messages a day due to the fact that they used the bounce to probe for valid addresses. |
| 22:39.26 | andersee | prpplague: it takes a lot of time to be certain a company deserves to be there |
| 22:39.45 | prpplague | andersee: yea i bet |
| 22:40.50 | prpplague | andersee: and following up on the ones that say they "are working on it" is probably pretty time consuming as well |
| 22:41.36 | jacques | hmm is dejagnu a requirement for make check on binutils ? |
| 22:42.42 | jacques | heh "Hauppauge contacted me on 16 Dec 2003, and claims to be working on resolving this problem." |
| 22:43.52 | prpplague | jacques: yea, thats the stuff i'm talking about |
| 22:44.14 | prpplague | jacques: i would expect that alot of companies hope that andersee is just too busy to remember to check back |
| 22:44.23 | jacques | and he probably is |
| 22:44.51 | pb_ | jacques: yes, dejagnu is required |
| 22:45.03 | prpplague | jacques: and see like the sigma stuff, sites like linuxdevices.com promot their stuff all the time about being linux users, but don't bother checking to see if they are gpl compliant |
| 22:45.43 | jacques | guess I'll go get dejagnu - I used it a long time ago checking ipaq toolchains but for some reason I thought it was only needed for gcc/glibc not binutils |
| 22:46.03 | jacques | prpplague, yeah I've noticed that on linuxdevices |
| 22:46.26 | jacques | for some companies linux is just a checkbox to get them free publicity on more sites |
| 22:46.42 | prpplague | jacques: yea |
| 22:47.14 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you're acting like Rich Lherbaum should have some morals or something |
| 22:47.59 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: now, now,hehe |
| 22:48.14 | jacques | argh. now I remember why deja was such a nightmare - it depends on expect and tcl |
| 22:48.28 | CosmicPenguin | the man posts WIndows devices on linuxdevices with the tag line "But will it run LInux" |
| 22:48.33 | jacques | AFAIK nobody has even thought about building those on the nslu2 |
| 22:48.39 | CosmicPenguin | If thats not pandering, then I need a new dictionary |
| 22:48.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: well you know he own like 15 other websites |
| 22:49.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: including windowsdevices.com |
| 22:49.07 | CosmicPenguin | exactly |
| 22:49.29 | CosmicPenguin | lets just say, he's not exactly about helping the community |
| 22:49.35 | prpplague | yea |
| 22:49.49 | prpplague | argh, my head hurts |
| 22:49.56 | prpplague | freakin sinus' |
| 22:50.03 | jacques | I seem to remember some issue with specific versions of expect and tcp too |
| 22:50.08 | jacques | tcl that is |
| 22:50.29 | jacques | dejagnu failed silently with wrong versions - I think I repressed all this |
| 22:52.35 | T0mW | IIRC, Ziff Davis purchased linuxdevices.com from Rich a year ago.. |
| 22:52.53 | prpplague | T0mW: other way around |
| 22:53.35 | CosmicPenguin | No |
| 22:53.39 | CosmicPenguin | But he's still the editor, I think |
| 22:55.03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i don't he's the editor these, anytime i send sumissions i get another guy with the tag line "editor" |
| 22:55.33 | jacques | oe has neither tcl nor expect :-( |
| 22:55.48 | T0mW | well, one of provisions of the sale was that he went with it, heh |
| 22:56.04 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, reading press release now |
| 22:56.19 | CosmicPenguin | ok, well then my venom is reserved for linuxdevices.com, not a single person |
| 22:56.21 | prpplague | T0mW: i was trying to remember who rick purchase them from originally |
| 22:56.22 | T0mW | no, I talked with rick about two years ago about it |
| 22:56.30 | CosmicPenguin | He started the site |
| 22:56.35 | T0mW | yeah |
| 22:56.41 | CosmicPenguin | becuase back in the day, he was good friends with Greg, so all the Century stuff got headlines |
| 22:56.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea, then sold it to someone and then back it back |
| 22:56.55 | prpplague | http://www.ziffdavis.com/press/releases/041206.0.html |
| 22:58.31 | T0mW | ok, so it wasn't ZD that bought him out. memory failure |
| 22:58.52 | prpplague | ahh ok here is the scoop, rick started it, then zdnet purchased it, rick purchased it back, and then it was bought by deviceforge |
| 22:59.03 | T0mW | LOL |
| 22:59.04 | prpplague | now all of deviceforge is being bought by ziffdavis |
| 22:59.08 | CosmicPenguin | ahhh |
| 22:59.10 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 22:59.16 | CosmicPenguin | the bottom banner talks about ziffdavis |
| 22:59.56 | T0mW | IIRC, it was first sold about 2000, when the internet money was still sloshing around |
| 23:00.13 | prpplague | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7268795633.html |
| 23:00.14 | T0mW | heh, I sold my website in early 2000 |
| 23:01.04 | jacques | sounds like some money laundering scheme :-) |
| 23:01.33 | jacques | all the selling and buying back |
| 23:03.08 | CosmicPenguin | This crap serial port, I've been dicking with it all afternoon |
| 23:04.21 | CosmicPenguin | ew |
| 23:06.11 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: which uart is it? |
| 23:09.28 | CosmicPenguin | its on the CS5535 companionchip |
| 23:09.36 | CosmicPenguin | I think its this board thats broken |
| 23:10.08 | CosmicPenguin | Works great on all my other platforms |
| 23:11.06 | CosmicPenguin | bah |
| 23:11.13 | CosmicPenguin | without serial, I'm useless |
| 23:13.46 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: maybe it is something simple: like cold solder or a short? |
| 23:13.49 | CosmicPenguin | Hmmm... maybe its kgdb |
| 23:14.15 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: its not board specific |
| 23:14.18 | jacques | once again, I cannot determine which versions of expect and tcl dejagnu needs |
| 23:14.30 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: so either they broke serial completely on this *production* platform, or I'm an idiot |
| 23:14.35 | CosmicPenguin | I tend to lean toward the second |
| 23:15.17 | T0mW | well, I've seen miswires on the PCB before where the schematic did not match the PCB |
| 23:15.55 | T0mW | IIRC, EEDesigner was very easily capable of doing that |
| 23:20.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: or they put a chip on backwards |
| 23:21.14 | pb_ | mm. you'd kind of hope they'd notice that kind of error before starting to ship the product, though. |
| 23:22.01 | CosmicPenguin | yeah |
| 23:22.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what kind of problem are you having? |
| 23:22.05 | CosmicPenguin | this is a production board after all |
| 23:22.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: can you jack a scope on it? |
| 23:22.12 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: just not getting the signal |
| 23:22.20 | CosmicPenguin | probably, but I don't care that bad |
| 23:22.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i;d put a scope on the ttl side and see if you are getting something |
| 23:24.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: jeeze that want all kinds of infor for you to even look at the datasheet for the 5535 |
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| 23:27.02 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: what? |
| 23:27.08 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: oh, yeah |
| 23:27.08 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 23:27.13 | CosmicPenguin | it was open not a month ago |
| 23:27.17 | CosmicPenguin | I don't know why they changed it |
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| 23:28.11 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i be willing to bet you probably have a power down pin or an enable pin thats improperly grounded when it should be high, or pulled high when it should be low |
| 23:29.56 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, well, we'll see |
| 23:30.13 | CosmicPenguin | These are production boards |
| 23:30.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'd look at the pin out, but i'm too tired to fill out the fbi file type registry |
| 23:30.48 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you wouldn't even be able to see it if you could |
| 23:31.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: what? |
| 23:31.16 | prpplague | they don't have a pinout in the datasheet? |
| 23:31.19 | CosmicPenguin | I don't think so |
| 23:31.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: then what good is the datasheet? |
| 23:32.27 | CosmicPenguin | Oh, I guess it has the ball assignments |
| 23:35.22 | pb_ | heh. it'd be a tricky design-in proposition with no pinout. |
| 23:38.45 | CosmicPenguin | bah |
| 23:38.54 | CosmicPenguin | not worth getting all worked up about |
| 23:46.55 | CosmicPenguin | ok - plan B |
