| 00:09.16 | CosmicPenguin | If anyone sees file[laptop] later, tell him I got the hardware he wanted, and I'll track him down via irc and we can talk turkey |
| 01:25.25 | Russ | you don't have a win98 starter? |
| 01:25.38 | fishhead | na I have all that dude |
| 01:25.42 | fishhead | it's just a pain in the ass |
| 01:25.44 | fishhead | all the updates |
| 01:25.47 | fishhead | spyware protect |
| 01:25.47 | fishhead | etc |
| 01:25.49 | fishhead | antivirus |
| 01:25.53 | Russ | ie, a disk image that when put on a disk, boots and does the install process for 98 automatically |
| 01:25.53 | fishhead | etc you have to install |
| 01:25.57 | Russ | (or a cd) |
| 01:26.04 | fishhead | not really |
| 01:26.09 | fishhead | I don't use win9x at home anymore |
| 01:30.58 | Russ | why not xppro? |
| 01:31.50 | fishhead | not paying $200 for each machine in the house |
| 01:32.29 | fishhead | most of my own machines when I move will be linux only from now on |
| 01:32.41 | fishhead | a) most of the stuff I needed windows for will work in linux |
| 01:32.46 | fishhead | b) machines too old to run windows right anyways |
| 01:32.58 | fishhead | mplayer did a lot of this for me :) |
| 01:36.12 | file[laptop] | erm |
| 01:36.14 | file[laptop] | I fell asleep |
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| 01:44.30 | KeyserLaptop | would anyone car to recommend a PPC toolchain? For IBM (AMCc) 440EP |
| 01:44.45 | fishhead | no I dunno of any myself |
| 01:44.54 | fishhead | but they do have a canuckload of embedded ppc solutions |
| 01:44.56 | fishhead | I was amazed |
| 01:45.02 | fishhead | cheap ones too |
| 01:45.18 | KeyserLaptop | what are solutions? and who has them? :) |
| 01:46.31 | fishhead | google around |
| 01:46.37 | fishhead | #avr #robotics #electronics |
| 01:46.42 | fishhead | i recommend those channels |
| 01:46.44 | fishhead | someone might know |
| 01:46.49 | KeyserLaptop | i meant, "what do you mean by 'solutions'?" |
| 01:51.19 | fishhead | like $10 chipsets |
| 01:51.22 | fishhead | with passive cooling |
| 01:51.27 | fishhead | for like a tivo solution |
| 01:51.30 | fishhead | ppc with video decoders etc |
| 01:51.38 | fishhead | lemme see if I can find you a few links |
| 01:51.39 | fishhead | hang on |
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| 02:13.29 | fishhead | hey dide |
| 02:13.36 | fishhead | I forgot all about you sorry |
| 02:13.40 | fishhead | lemme find some ppc stuff |
| 02:18.37 | file[laptop] | hail prpplague |
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| 02:52.59 | fishhead | http://www.rifraf.info/robots/led_flasherV2.htm |
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| 03:07.00 | file[laptop] | eek andersee |
| 03:11.16 | Soopaman | i heard he is part of the axis of evil :P |
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| 08:52.52 | skradfasket | see prpplague about custom holly-gates jtag dongles |
| 08:53.18 | skradfasket | I'm trying to learn how to use jtag |
| 08:53.39 | T0mW | heh |
| 08:54.30 | skradfasket | have an SH-3 based platform I'ld like to pull the rom out of |
| 08:55.46 | T0mW | you probably could do that with jtag, if you the manufacturer gives a spec on the Boundry Scan Register. |
| 08:56.24 | skradfasket | what means holly-gate? all the hits I get involve a cactus of that name |
| 08:57.24 | skradfasket | I'll have to see if there's a boundary-scan register documented in the data book I got for that particular SH-3 |
| 08:57.52 | T0mW | slang term for a particular type of circuitry wiring of a jtag interface, I don't know where some of these nicknames come from, but it really is meaningless. Essentially, it is a parallel port pin wiggler. |
| 08:58.32 | skradfasket | wiggler? |
| 08:58.58 | T0mW | hmm, you don't know much about jtag, right? |
| 08:59.08 | skradfasket | very little |
| 08:59.13 | T0mW | nod |
| 08:59.45 | T0mW | how much assembly language or C do you do? |
| 09:01.16 | skradfasket | ...uuh... heh ...uuh... I'm only just beginning |
| 09:02.10 | skradfasket | but this is generaly how I learn best: by stranding myself in some obscure corner of a subject |
| 09:04.39 | skradfasket | catching little islands of wisdom inbetween getting reemed and ridiculed by people who know a helluvalot more about the thing than I do |
| 09:05.13 | T0mW | well, if you haven't done much programming down on the chip level (shoving bytes into a chip to configure, say, an ethernet controller, or changing the baudrate, number of bits of a uart without using setserial or mode), it is really hard to explain the concept of jtag without spending a whole lot of time. |
| 09:05.43 | T0mW | jtag is bit-banging at its worst. |
| 09:07.39 | skradfasket | well, I definately know more about how a chip does what it does than I do about actual practicle methods of applying that knowledge |
| 09:07.59 | T0mW | not trying to dissuade you from trying it out, just be prepared to spend a lot of time learning background information about how the electronics of your SH processor works (pin waveforms when accessing / writing memory). |
| 09:08.31 | skradfasket | yes, I must reassemble my printer |
| 09:09.33 | skradfasket | or, better yet, replace the print head on the one I got from work |
| 09:10.03 | T0mW | skradfasket: jtag is essentially a series of serial shift registers inside the microprocessor. the shift register(s) lenght and purpose vary. Some chains are small, somewhere around a couple hundred bits, others are very large, a few thousand bits. |
| 09:11.41 | T0mW | The shift register "chains", there are 15 of them, are used for various purposes, one of the chains allows you to manually set / read pins of the processor. This is how you would read / write to program memory (program a virgin Flash with it's initial program, etc). |
| 09:12.57 | T0mW | Another chain, of the 15, is used for debugging purposes: setting HARDWARE breakpoints, reading writing internal registers, etc. |
| 09:14.40 | T0mW | if you cannot find a ready to use jtag software, you can write your own, provided only if the chip manufactuer give a specification for the functions of the Boundry Scan Layer chain. |
| 09:16.30 | T0mW | http://openwince.sourceforge.net/jtag/ |
| 09:17.48 | T0mW | check on the Intel, Texas Instruments, Altera, etc., websites for white papers on JTAG. It is an IEEE spec, so there is documents for it. |
| 09:18.28 | T0mW | skradfasket: not rocket science, merely electronics engineering |
| 09:20.59 | skradfasket | this is all delicious information. you've probably just told me five times as much as everyone whose told me anything put together |
| 09:22.43 | T0mW | yeah, I did some recent work on the Sharp LH7A400 processor with some fledling JTAG software that was a bit broken. |
| 09:23.11 | T0mW | s/fledling/beta/ |
| 09:24.01 | T0mW | I've been banging bits, literally, for many years now. JTAG is merely another bitstream protocol. |
| 09:24.10 | skradfasket | would you know whether sony or toshiba or motorola use it much? |
| 09:24.58 | T0mW | you have to bang (set) the data bit line, then pump the clock line (push it up and down), change your data bit, then pump the clock... |
| 09:25.24 | skradfasket | somehow, I get a profound sense of enjoyment writing bit paterns out |
| 09:25.40 | T0mW | no, mainly it is found on ARM, MIPS processors, especially on FPGA (programmable gate array logic). |
| 09:26.22 | T0mW | it is not found on X86, Motorola, Intel processors, other than the ARM processor lines which they have. |
| 09:27.30 | T0mW | JTAG really came about via the Auto Test Engineering (ATE) people who needed a way to test the high density boards (multilayer) that have come about in the past 5 years. |
| 09:28.09 | T0mW | Then, the debugger people got wind of it and though it was a great way to debug a processor that was surface mounted... |
| 09:28.21 | T0mW | s/though/thought/ |
| 09:29.17 | T0mW | JTAG is nothing more than a spinoff of the SPI & I2C serial bus protocol ideas. |
| 09:33.40 | skradfasket | have you heard of LVDS or CP2? |
| 09:34.01 | T0mW | no |
| 09:35.59 | skradfasket | well, I've also got a treo90 and a Handspring visor deluxe. Hear anything about either of them being linuxed? |
| 09:38.17 | T0mW | probably some of the other guys on this channel may have. I don't get too involved in over-the-counter products, mostly what I do involves proprietary hardware designs for customers. |
| 09:38.33 | skradfasket | I've heard tale that, though Handspring said you can't flash the rom in the visor, they actualy used a flash chip |
| 09:38.49 | skradfasket | interesting |
| 09:39.35 | T0mW | you can do that, block programming of the flash unless you have a physical intercession on the part of the person programming it. e.g. install a jumper. |
| 09:40.44 | T0mW | another simple way is to use a FET to control / block the VPP voltage of the Flash chip and control the FET via grounding a pin on the PCB. |
| 09:41.14 | T0mW | it is a 5 cent addition to the electronics. |
| 09:42.22 | T0mW | try talking with CosmicPenguin or Kergoth about the visor stuff |
| 09:45.27 | skradfasket | would you know whether the function of an MMU can be given to a platform if it uses a CPU without one? |
| 09:45.43 | skradfasket | with another chip I mean |
| 09:46.10 | T0mW | not a single chip. |
| 09:47.53 | T0mW | Interesting thing is that MMU technology really came about from banked memory logic of the 1970's where we had 64k processors and needed to access more than 64k of memory. MMU is a banked memory system on steriods. But no, there is not a "chip" that will do that functionality, unless you want to build it from an FPGA. |
| 09:48.18 | T0mW | MMU is tightly bound to the processor core. |
| 09:49.14 | T0mW | that way, it is more "transparent" to the processor, it works around the processor internal cyles so that it does limited interference with the operation of the processor. |
| 09:50.05 | T0mW | skradfasket: your only other option is uClinux which is linux for 32bit processors without an MMU. |
| 09:50.57 | skradfasket | yes. already knew about the uclinux option. That's why I ask |
| 09:52.49 | T0mW | heh, " A judge ordered the release of a woman charged with stabbing the corpse of a Canadian porn actress who was killed after a bondage photo session." |
| 09:55.35 | T0mW | well, email is done, the news sites & comics are done, now to work... |
| 09:57.51 | skradfasket | a man in nigeria is recovering from surgery after his wife tore his testicles of with her bare hands because she was convinced he was cheating |
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| 18:34.49 | fishhead | http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/status.html <--- HOLY MOTHER OF CANUCK |
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| 19:32.44 | Russ | "http://200.41.229.196/.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr-ID/index.htm" |
| 19:32.47 | Russ | I'll get right on that.. |
| 19:32.57 | file[laptop] | cute |
| 19:37.21 | jacques | maq196e.advance.com.ar |
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| 20:49.34 | Russ | firewall with SSH + realvnc on parents computer |
| 20:49.41 | Russ | = easy computer fixin' |
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| 20:56.08 | Russ | fishhead: you can buy a pack of 100 at frys |
| 20:56.24 | fishhead | we don't have frys around here :/ |
| 20:56.31 | fishhead | just circuit city, staples |
| 20:56.37 | fishhead | best buy if I drive 1 hr or compusa |
| 20:57.43 | file[laptop] | is CP gonna show up today at all I contemplate |
| 20:59.51 | Russ | http://shop4.outpost.com/catreq/4252 |
| 20:59.53 | Russ | order online |
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| 21:48.40 | file[laptop] | CP|Weekend: get back here |
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| 23:12.27 | sjhill | wth is sorphin? |
| 23:12.30 | sjhill | sheesh |
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