irclog2html for #elinux on 20050522

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00:49.43IBITECANUCKSSOAP-A-MAN
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06:07.58*** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en || see prpplague about custom holly-gates jtag dongles
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09:04.00*** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en || see prpplague about custom holly-gates jtag dongles
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13:03.45prpplaguemorning all
13:24.40Soopamanmorning
13:24.50Soopamanprpplague, are you fully linux on your box?
13:26.30Soopamanheh, nice, may i pick your brain for some info
13:27.17prpplagueSoopaman: sure, but i'll be coding shortly, i'm waaaaay behind on work
13:28.31Soopamanall i need to know is about wine
13:29.07Soopaman'cause i need to still use photoshop, flashfxp, and this database modelling app
13:29.09prpplaguehehe, i only use native apps, so no wine, hehe
13:29.17Soopamanheheh
13:29.23Soopamanhmm...
13:29.34prpplagueSoopaman: sorry dood
13:30.20Soopamanheh, np
13:30.29Soopamanyou can't always have all the answers :P
13:30.56prpplaguehehe, i rarely have any, hehe
13:32.17Soopamanhow a bout tuts for opening up router firmwares?
13:34.03prpplagueSoopaman: "opening up" ?
13:34.26Soopamanyeah, trying to look at the contents of the firmware, to see if i can get into the router without jtag'ing
13:48.33prpplagueSoopaman: oh, well, i'm a jtag person , hehe,
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15:02.48chouimatmorning
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17:01.41prpplaguehttp://www.nationnews.com/story/283357623390578.php
17:13.12prpplaguemighty quite today
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18:14.46fishheadseee
18:14.47fishheadI was right
18:14.52fishheadit's a canadian conspiracy
18:14.53fishheadThe cover to its original hangar was built by a Canadian firm with the ironic name Everlast.
18:14.56fishheadYOU STUPID CANUCKS!
18:15.00fishhead:P
18:25.30chouimatcan someone fix fishhead problems?
18:25.42fishheadchouimat it was a joke :/
18:25.46*** part/#elinux fishhead (~gddsf@24.3.15.166)
18:26.06Soopamanthanks for fixing that problem chouimat :D
18:27.20chouimatSoopaman: hehe ...
18:31.44*** join/#elinux T0mW (tom@24.229.11.125)
18:33.57prpplagueT0mW: boo
18:34.13T0mWyesss ?
18:34.15T0mWheh
18:35.11T0mWI've been mucking around with HTML stuff this weekend.  Very frustrating, something that I thought would be good for the old blood pressure
18:35.24T0mWha!
18:46.43*** join/#elinux poulpe (~poulpe@courbet-4-82-227-208-86.fbx.proxad.net)
18:56.53prpplagueits hotter than a prostitute in sunday school today
18:59.26chouimatprpplague: that must be hot
19:02.41prpplaguechouimat: went to the beach yesterday down the road, got my bald head sun burned
19:03.05chouimatprpplague: got one in april here ...
19:03.30chouimatok time to watch some tv if I want to be able to do nothing tomorrow
19:31.07*** join/#elinux Jacmet (~jacmet@50C59F0E.flatrate.dk)
20:10.59prpplaguehehe, my son has been playing hamtaro on the gba since 8am this morning
20:23.21T0mWprpplague: isn't it required that the natives must wear grass hats out of doors?
20:24.04T0mWprpplague: you'd better be carefull or you'll end up in the "Native Re-Education Center"
20:24.29T0mW"local color" and all that.  ;)
20:31.24prpplagueT0mW: hehe
20:32.34prpplagueT0mW: did you get very far with fb on the a400?
20:32.45T0mWnada, too much else going on
20:36.42prpplagueyea, i've been having minor problems getting everything working for multiple displays
20:46.06T0mWprpplague: I'm reworking some of the menu generation stuff for openhardware.net
20:47.14T0mWprpplague: I take an indented text file (menu descriptor) and run that through some perl scripting to emit javascript code.  There has been a bug in the perl scripts where it would not correctly assign to a parent menu entry
20:47.24T0mWPITA
20:47.37T0mW'cause there is a lot going on
20:48.13Soopamaneek
20:48.17Soopamanugy!
20:48.33T0mWI finally had to break it into seperate files for each major operation, then pipe them together.  Only way to keep track of what was going on (rewrite).
20:48.37T0mWya
20:49.02T0mWWell, the perl only gets run once, then the javascript is loaded with the page
20:49.54T0mWI'd like to use gd to generate png images for each of the menu pop outs, later perhaps
20:50.39SoopamanT0mW, any ideas for figuring out a way into my router without jtagging it?
20:50.40T0mWSoopaman: keeps me up to date as to perl.  :P
20:50.52Soopamani dislike perl greatly
20:51.07Soopamanwriting perl makes me feel dirty
20:51.09Soopaman:P
20:51.21T0mWhuh?  what do you mean by "figuring out a way into my router" ?
20:53.10T0mWSoopaman: one time I got into a POS (Point of Sale) system that was running RedHat due to the fact they didn't secure lilo...
20:53.12Soopamanhoping to re-install the software without jtagging
20:53.15T0mWlinux -s
20:53.22T0mW:/
20:53.32T0mWdepends on the system (cpu)
20:53.36Soopamanmips
20:54.16T0mWprolly going to have to, unless they have some escape sequence that invokes a downloader / debugger via the ttySx ?
20:54.35Soopamanwas hoping to open up a firmware and mod it/look for backdoors
20:55.32T0mWI'll be doing something like that with a proprietary I'm building, the system will hesitate for about 3 seconds on powerup to listen for a specific string of chars on the serial port.  Then will launch into a config/loader mode
20:56.34T0mWSoopaman: you'd have to reverse engineer the code to look for backdoors.  Dump the FLASH to the PC and start running objdump
20:56.57Soopamancouldn't i do the same working with a firmware released by the company?
20:56.59T0mWSoopaman: brutal way to go, but I've BTDT
20:57.08T0mWyou could
20:57.15T0mWbut
20:57.26T0mWthey might not give you the whole image
20:57.39Soopamanwhat do you mean
20:58.47T0mWI won't, there will be two types of updates to my system: MainCode which will be a full binary image, then PatchCode which will patch portions of the runtime executive
20:59.25Soopamanit seems to be a full install (they want you to restore factory settings)
20:59.34T0mWThe only way to get my code will be to dump from the internal flash via JTAG, and we plan to pot the CPU in expoxy just to discourage that
21:00.02T0mWThere is no Flash read protection from JTAG on this processor
21:00.12Soopamank
21:00.14Soopamanhttp://www.ovislink.com.tw/9000upgrade.htm
21:00.22Soopamanis what i have to work with
21:01.30T0mWThere have been times where I would reverse stuff back to source.  Mostly that stuff was assembler sourced, in that case, you have to get into the programming habits of the original author so you can follow his code / way of thinking.
21:02.30T0mWI'd also reversed some BorlandC v3.x code, but there you have to identify how the compiler does it's code generation (while, for, if, break, continue)
21:02.40Soopamanhmm... the only reason i'm trying to save what's already on/in the firmware, is to make sure I'm not missing/forgetting anything
21:02.51T0mWdepends on how badly you want to recover the source
21:03.26T0mWMIPS / ARM code is so weird though
21:04.31T0mWSoopaman: sure that the router isn't GPL code?
21:04.35T0mWor should be
21:05.04T0mWmaybe it is and they haven't done a release for the source yet
21:05.32Soopamanthere is, but it's so dirty, i don't know if it can be glued back together
21:05.40T0mWnod
21:06.05T0mWlike, here is the source, but we forgot to include the Makefile
21:06.58Soopamanheh, yep
21:07.18Soopamancan you think of a good open source router with usb ports?
21:08.02T0mWno, I don't know what  manufacturers are doing with sourcing there GPL stuff
21:08.26T0mWproblem is that you could get the source, but then you have no schematics
21:09.45T0mWyou could dope out from the source what the hardware schematic might look like though.  The TuxScreen was such an example, IIRC, somebody buzzed the board out to re-create schematics for it.  Then linux could be put on the thing.  Same with WebPal.
21:10.06Soopamanhmm... the thing is the machine is so well equipped, you can run a distro on it like they did those manga routers
21:10.59T0mWyeah, but they are probably terrified that their competition may see something in their design and beat them out on features in the MarketPlace
21:12.31T0mWBGA designs just make reverse engineering the PCB that much tougher
21:13.06T0mWSo, if they won't give you the source to their kernel modules, you are left with reverse engineering the binary image to dope it out.
21:14.00T0mWThat's if they give you loadable modules and don't do "oops? you mean we have to use modules for our proprietary kernel code?"
21:14.52T0mWSoopaman: that's why I don't follow proprietary systems, even if they give you the GPL source
21:16.31Soopamanyeah, the crappy thing is that the router could be great
21:17.07Soopamanjust hteir ui and choice of apps are crap
21:23.34prpplagueT0mW: "buzzed the board out" ?
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21:40.32T0mWprpplague: ohmmeter on 200ohm range and the sounder enabled
21:41.10prpplagueT0mW: ahh, just never heard it phrased like that
21:42.09T0mWprpplague: lots of fun to do that, first you build a schematic with nothing connected, then start buzzing
21:42.23prpplagueT0mW: hehe yea
21:42.31prpplagueT0mW: started doing that with the pixter
21:42.37prpplagueT0mW: haven't finished
21:42.37T0mWprpplague: good task for low-end engineering 'droids to do
21:42.56T0mW~define droid
21:43.08T0mW~droid
21:43.09ibotit has been said that droid is a bot
21:43.25T0mWibot: no shit ?
21:44.02T0mW~google define:droid
21:44.16T0mWhmmm
21:45.49T0mWseems ibot cannot google
21:46.14T0mW~google "define:droid"
21:53.52T0mWyou know, sort just doesn't do what you expect it too.  There is some arcane understanding of what a sort is that seems to escape me as to the logic of whoever wrote "sort"
21:53.53T0mW:(
21:55.02prpplaguehehe
21:56.51T0mWyou ever try to sort numeric data that is seperated by something other than blanks? Say with a " char?  it sux
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21:57.38prpplaguehehe, you can do it , just takes alot of syntax
21:59.57T0mWno, it sorts just fine if you specify only one keyfield, if you specify multiple keys it goes idiot on you
22:00.36T0mWprpplague: maybe it is like regex, what seems to make sense won't unless you read the book?
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22:04.05T0mWdoh!
22:04.55T0mWuse: sort -n --field-separator=\" --key=1 --key=2     instead of: ort -n --field-separator=\" --key=1,2
22:05.03T0mWuse: sort -n --field-separator=\" --key=1 --key=2     instead of: sort -n --field-separator=\" --key=1,2
22:06.03T0mWyou have to use multiple "--key=" entries to identify multiple sorting keys, not a combined --field like spec
22:06.03T0mWas in cut
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