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| 01:06.26 | fishhead | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS9955450995.html <--- wow it only took like losing the entire consumer electronics market for sony to finally get a clue :P |
| 01:22.28 | *** mode/#elinux [+v file] by ChanServ |
| 01:37.25 | jamie | Ahhhhh........ waves of relief and happiness..... |
| 01:37.46 | jamie | All my "Illegal instruction" and other ARM woes were due to using a broken toolchain. |
| 01:38.28 | jamie | Now that I'm using the somewhat well hidden uclinux-tools-20050221, it works beautifully. |
| 01:41.21 | fishhead | jamie where do you live ? |
| 01:41.28 | jamie | Oxford, uk |
| 01:41.44 | fishhead | you heard about the juicebox right? it might get cheap over there because the whole product is looking like a total flop |
| 01:41.52 | fishhead | the reason I bring it up is it's 60mhz arm7tdmi |
| 01:41.56 | fishhead | $60 toy down to $13 |
| 01:42.20 | fishhead | not trying to interrupt you here, just thought it might be fun for something low end to kick around without worrying about blowing up |
| 01:42.54 | jamie | Hmm. Yes, I do only have one prototype HDTV player to blow up ;) |
| 01:43.14 | fishhead | http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBox |
| 01:43.20 | fishhead | prpp is the main dude on the project btw :P |
| 01:44.04 | fishhead | it actually already uses linux for mp3 and picture viewing, but video playback from carts and rom demo is a custom player os |
| 01:44.06 | jamie | On Mattel's project? Or on the unofficial hackers' project? |
| 01:44.08 | fishhead | uclinux |
| 01:44.14 | fishhead | unofficial :P |
| 01:44.33 | fishhead | at this point I don't think mattel would care either, it looks like total flop |
| 01:44.40 | fishhead | walmart discounted it late last yr |
| 01:44.44 | fishhead | now target and kmart are also |
| 01:45.43 | jamie | I'm my own emplyer, you insensitive clod! |
| 01:45.48 | fishhead | :P |
| 01:46.04 | jamie | And I'm a shit boss ;) |
| 01:47.40 | fishhead | hehe |
| 01:47.54 | fishhead | I had a job in jan 2005-march but I quit because I didn't want to be a drag on the company |
| 01:48.11 | fishhead | they did circuit design and I helped run smt machines but I am too absent minded and coordination is too sucky |
| 01:48.34 | fishhead | nice people though and i recommend them too all and learned a lot |
| 01:48.36 | jamie | Is it my imagination, or are there about a million competing variations of uclinux toolchains, all slightly different, many of them old, and none of them the obvious choice that everyone uses? |
| 01:48.46 | jamie | where are you based? |
| 01:48.48 | fishhead | I haven't got that far yet sorry |
| 01:49.03 | fishhead | I still have a old m68k palm with a dead rom that will do serial bootstrap but I can't find a howto |
| 01:49.08 | fishhead | usa, pennsylvania |
| 01:50.07 | jamie | I've just spent 23.5 hours trying different toolchain versions / configurations to eventually settle on a binary package that seems to work. |
| 01:50.11 | fishhead | yeah I know what you mean though |
| 01:50.15 | fishhead | even though I hated coding I get it |
| 01:50.28 | fishhead | I understand the developers the first thing they want to do is get a heart beating |
| 01:50.39 | jamie | In the old days, you'd just fetch binutils and gcc, ./configure --target=whatever, and it'd just work. |
| 01:50.43 | fishhead | but they need to know that it's worth shit if it's too frustrating to use even for brainiacs |
| 01:51.24 | jamie | I have the impression that important fixes etc. aren't making their way back to vanilla sources of major packages any more. |
| 01:51.29 | fishhead | and the next moron to ever tell me that stuff be hard to be real or that's the only way to learn is going to get a rabid canuck sicked on them |
| 01:51.37 | fishhead | has to be hard |
| 01:51.44 | jamie | How's your hardware hacking? |
| 01:51.49 | fishhead | just learning |
| 01:51.54 | fishhead | I was a pc tech for 10+ yrs |
| 01:51.58 | fishhead | but never got this low level |
| 01:52.00 | fishhead | I like it |
| 01:52.04 | fishhead | I learned a lot just reading |
| 01:52.17 | jamie | Do you know anyone who's interested in fabricating open-source chips? |
| 01:52.31 | fishhead | folks hate me cause I bring home everyone's dead vcr's from tne trash etc for parts |
| 01:52.35 | fishhead | no I don't sorry :( |
| 01:52.56 | fishhead | but if I see anything that looks like it might I will drop you a line |
| 01:53.08 | fishhead | what about fpga option ? |
| 01:53.17 | fishhead | mabye some fpga company would sponsor you |
| 01:53.57 | fishhead | even if it isn't like locked down to their model they can figure it will still create more demand for fpga market in general and still help them |
| 01:54.37 | fishhead | at least from my own observations reading about semi companies some of them would rather make a little less than end up with 1000000 pieces of product sitting on a shelf |
| 01:54.49 | fishhead | but what do I know :P |
| 01:56.26 | fishhead | there is some fpga maker |
| 01:56.31 | fishhead | i can't remeber which |
| 01:56.45 | fishhead | their customers wanted a 8 bit embedded 8051 core |
| 01:57.03 | fishhead | which is a 20+ yr old microcontroller but no one gives a flying canuck about it's age cause it still does many jobs well |
| 01:57.17 | fishhead | and companies keep making better and better clones :P |
| 01:57.26 | jamie | Yeah, I programmed one last year (the EZ-USB is an 8051 + USB port) |
| 01:57.40 | fishhead | yep it's good for control apps like that |
| 01:57.58 | jamie | I think ARM's nicer, but it's sad how you can't clone an ARM because they pursue you with their patents just for copying the instruction set. |
| 01:58.00 | fishhead | that and avr are probaby my 2 favorite from all the reading I have done |
| 01:58.15 | fishhead | oh no doubt arm owns dude but that's 32/16 bit class :) |
| 01:58.22 | fishhead | you can't compare it to 8 bit class :P |
| 01:58.30 | jamie | That's right. It's nicer :) |
| 01:58.45 | jamie | And really, they're both nothing on modern silicon. |
| 01:58.56 | fishhead | but you don't need a v4, v6 or v8 on a lawn mower |
| 01:59.05 | fishhead | hence you don't need more than 8 bits in a lot of apps |
| 01:59.11 | fishhead | arm for a usb flash drive would be a waste |
| 01:59.12 | jamie | True, but it's nicer to program the 16/32 bit chips too. |
| 01:59.19 | fishhead | unless it was doing gov level crypto etc |
| 01:59.43 | fishhead | I dunno a lot of 8 bit class have nice c compilers n ow |
| 01:59.46 | fishhead | even a gcc port for avr |
| 01:59.47 | fishhead | :P |
| 02:00.08 | jamie | I'm looking forward to the death of the CPU... |
| 02:00.12 | fishhead | bah |
| 02:00.17 | jamie | We don't need no steenkin' instruction sets :) |
| 02:00.19 | fishhead | I don't think it's going to happen any time soon |
| 02:00.24 | jamie | No, not for a while. |
| 02:00.34 | fishhead | i'm a fan of x86 |
| 02:00.41 | jamie | I used not to be, but I am now. |
| 02:00.44 | fishhead | but not for 16 bit stuff or deep embeeded |
| 02:00.48 | fishhead | waste there |
| 02:00.50 | fishhead | arm owns it |
| 02:01.05 | jamie | Though, it's scary how the x86 instruction set manual _doubled_ in size when the Pentium 3 (or so) came out. |
| 02:01.11 | fishhead | hehe |
| 02:01.27 | fishhead | no it was probably the PPRO that did that |
| 02:01.30 | jamie | For SSE/SSE2 they literally doubled the _total_ number of instructions, and you know how many there were before. |
| 02:01.39 | jamie | No, PPRO didn't add much. |
| 02:01.41 | fishhead | prpo = first risc with cisc emulation |
| 02:01.45 | fishhead | pII = ppro + mmx |
| 02:01.48 | fishhead | p3 = PII + sse |
| 02:02.18 | fishhead | p4 = CANUCKED |
| 02:02.21 | jamie | Yup. And SSE roughtly doubles the number of instructions - I noticed because I was writing a machine-readable specification of them... |
| 02:02.25 | fishhead | oh? |
| 02:02.32 | fishhead | I didn't know that I didn't think it added that many |
| 02:03.00 | jamie | Obviously they're quite similar to each other. Lots of floating point, lots of special ways to access memory, bypass caches etc. |
| 02:03.20 | jamie | Probably not a lot of additional complexity on the chip. But it sure did pad out the instruction set manual. |
| 02:04.03 | jamie | I have to give PPro credit for being a milestone in CPU design. |
| 02:04.11 | fishhead | I have no idea why apple is using a p4 for the next macs |
| 02:04.15 | fishhead | i would wait for the pentium 5 |
| 02:04.23 | fishhead | intel is dumping the p4 archtechture |
| 02:04.25 | fishhead | cause it's canucked |
| 02:04.25 | jamie | It's the point where the instruction set stopped really mattering in CPU design. |
| 02:04.33 | fishhead | all mhz and a big power hog |
| 02:05.16 | jamie | It's a shame they aren't going to mobile opterons, and motivating AMD to make them more efficient. I would've bought such a laptop the instant it came out. |
| 02:05.23 | jamie | But I'm not likely to buy an Intel one. |
| 02:05.31 | fishhead | yeah amd has intel by the you know what |
| 02:05.59 | jamie | not really. media seems to have forgotten that amd did 64-bit first and designed the instruction set. |
| 02:06.20 | fishhead | and dual core :) |
| 02:06.25 | fishhead | intel just taped 2 cpu's together |
| 02:06.59 | jamie | Intel have the hyperthread people behind the scenes, though. At some point the HT people and the "tape 2 together" people will find a good compromise :) |
| 02:07.23 | jamie | It's all functional units and routing in the end. |
| 02:07.39 | jamie | Which is why the Cell may be a good idea after all. |
| 02:08.31 | jamie | anyway, it's bedtime for me. After a tedious day poking at non-functioning toolchains. |
| 02:08.33 | fishhead | yeah taped together beats trying to keep cracking the mhz up and making space heaters |
| 02:08.40 | fishhead | ok pease |
| 02:08.45 | jamie | mm, peas. |
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| 02:40.43 | Soopaman | kergoth, how's minnie? |
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| 13:42.23 | Genesis | bonjour |
| 13:50.05 | Genesis | bye |
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| 17:13.45 | T0mW | anyone give me a ssh shell account to use, temporarily, to chase down a problem I have with my mail server? |
| 17:14.16 | T0mW | I need to "mailto" back to my machine |
| 17:15.16 | T0mW | nm, I forgot I have privs on another box |
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| 19:25.02 | Crofton|laptop | T0mW, you solve your problem? |
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| 19:58.04 | fishhead | http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/mechatronics/VCR.wmv |
| 19:58.11 | fishhead | http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/video_demos/mechatronics/ also |
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| 20:34.20 | *** topic/#elinux is Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en || see prpplague about custom holly-gates jtag dongles |
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