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| 12:50.33 | prpplague | T0mW: hey hey crack baby |
| 12:50.40 | prpplague | T0mW: ex-usb fx2 |
| 12:50.46 | prpplague | T0mW: ez-usb fx2 |
| 12:50.55 | prpplague | T0mW: you looked at it? |
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| 12:56.52 | T0mW | prpplague: yawn |
| 12:57.34 | T0mW | prpplague: I gave a quick look, but I figured that you'd get scanline's input about it. |
| 12:59.37 | T0mW | prpplague: Cypress CY7C68013 ? |
| 13:02.20 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 13:02.27 | prpplague | T0mW: which reminds me |
| 13:03.02 | prpplague | T0mW: its a 8051 core |
| 13:03.17 | prpplague | T0mW: was thinking about hacking one to work with nand flash |
| 13:05.05 | T0mW | prpplague: well, you're going to have to go with the TQFP-128 package, that is the only one with the external memory signals for the 8051. |
| 13:05.18 | T0mW | prpplague: the other two parts appear to be mask versions |
| 13:05.37 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 13:05.43 | T0mW | huge freakin' chip though: TQFP128 ! |
| 13:05.43 | prpplague | T0mW: no i said "hack" hehe |
| 13:05.59 | T0mW | you can't, not on the smaller parts |
| 13:06.00 | prpplague | T0mW: there are about 10 smartmedia card readers based on the ez-usb |
| 13:06.13 | prpplague | T0mW: i was plainning to just do new firmware |
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| 13:06.32 | T0mW | yeah, ok, like are these things the 128 pin chip? |
| 13:10.40 | prpplague | T0mW: http://www.devasys.com/usbi2cio.htm |
| 13:11.00 | prpplague | T0mW: all the boards i've seen use the tqfp package |
| 13:11.24 | prpplague | T0mW: http://www.activewireinc.com/ |
| 13:12.28 | T0mW | ok, it bootstraps in the 8051 program / data from serial EEPROM. Interesting. |
| 13:12.53 | prpplague | T0mW: or can be downloaded via the driver interface |
| 13:13.02 | T0mW | you are going to be writing this entirely in assembler. no 8051 C compiler that I know of creates tight code. |
| 13:13.22 | T0mW | 8051 is basically a RISC processor |
| 13:13.29 | prpplague | T0mW: no there is a custom linux compiler for it |
| 13:13.38 | T0mW | yeah, right |
| 13:13.47 | prpplague | http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ |
| 13:14.12 | T0mW | with only 8K space, I know that you'll be hand coding assembler. |
| 13:14.44 | T0mW | 8051 assembler is not difficult, it is a very simple instruction set. |
| 13:14.58 | prpplague | there are several projects that use the sdcc with ez-usb, i assumed it would be fine to use |
| 13:15.41 | prpplague | T0mW: http://ezhid.sourceforge.net/ |
| 13:17.18 | T0mW | prpplague: what you might be able to do is do overlays of code space. Add another serial eeprom that contains additional code, then pull in that code as needed. |
| 13:17.45 | T0mW | sort of like what we used to do "in the old daze" |
| 13:17.54 | T0mW | overlays |
| 13:18.26 | prpplague | T0mW: i can't imagin what i want to with the nand flash being that complicated |
| 13:18.43 | prpplague | T0mW: from what i did with arm code, not more than 30-40 lines of code |
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| 13:19.48 | T0mW | prpplague: if I was going to dev for a 100 / 52 pin package target, I would get a 128 pin chip, attach the 64K emulator that I have to it (it can be written to) and find out what codespace I would need. then work at cramming that code into the serial EEPROM. |
| 13:20.15 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:20.48 | T0mW | prpplague: YMMV, if you have one of those usb thingys in the 52 pin package, go for it. All you would need is some way to dump your code into the serial eeprom. |
| 13:21.17 | T0mW | prpplague: put an LED someplace, that way you can wiggle it to say "hey! I made it this far!" |
| 13:21.19 | prpplague | T0mW: well what i was planning to do was to have the driver module upload the firmware during init |
| 13:21.38 | prpplague | T0mW: that way i can leave the manufacturers firmware untouched |
| 13:22.18 | T0mW | I think I used to have an 8051 dis-assembler... |
| 13:22.34 | T0mW | one that I wrote |
| 13:23.43 | chouimat | lol http://www.askmen.com/jokes/current/index.html |
| 13:23.54 | prpplague | T0mW: i wish there were better disassembler tools for arm |
| 13:24.04 | T0mW | prpplague: gak! |
| 13:24.15 | prpplague | T0mW: ? |
| 13:24.23 | T0mW | prpplague: reading arm assembler makes my head hurt |
| 13:25.08 | T0mW | prpplague: every look at the objdump of your compiled arm code? |
| 13:25.19 | T0mW | s/every/ever/ |
| 13:25.27 | prpplague | T0mW: uh yea, been doing it with the juicebox for 3 months now |
| 13:25.33 | T0mW | heh |
| 13:25.55 | T0mW | I guess that I just have enough practice looking at that stuff. |
| 13:26.26 | T0mW | prpplague: you plan on reverse engineering the 8051 code that is in the thing now? |
| 13:27.05 | prpplague | T0mW: don't really need to |
| 13:27.09 | T0mW | ok |
| 13:27.43 | prpplague | T0mW: juice need to add some code to act like a relay for commands and data for the nand flash |
| 13:27.51 | prpplague | s/juice/just |
| 13:27.57 | T0mW | reverse engineering is not that difficult, once you gain the skills to do so. it is merely a mind-think thing |
| 13:28.12 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, the juicebox stuff has been very educational |
| 13:28.33 | T0mW | you find that you are getting into the programmer's head yet? |
| 13:28.33 | prpplague | T0mW: there are about 3 or 4 large code sections that i'm still not sure whats going on |
| 13:28.45 | T0mW | programming style, etc |
| 13:28.47 | prpplague | T0mW: i need to be able to dump the nand flash to finish the job |
| 13:29.19 | T0mW | no file system on the nand flash? |
| 13:29.27 | T0mW | just block access or something? |
| 13:30.24 | T0mW | did you try a 'dd' on the nand partition and mounting the partition under linux? |
| 13:30.56 | T0mW | or, just dd the device and use mc (midnight commander) to view the partition contents. |
| 13:31.25 | T0mW | dd if=/dev/hdx of=the-whole-partition |
| 13:31.46 | T0mW | the dos partition table may still be valid |
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| 13:32.27 | prpplague | T0mW: problem is that the usb->smartmedia adapters have firmware that prevent raw access to the nand flash |
| 13:32.33 | T0mW | don't try to mount the thing, just get linux to recognize that the nand device is there in the reader |
| 13:32.45 | T0mW | no dd then? |
| 13:33.03 | prpplague | T0mW: you could use dd but you wouldn't get anything that was usuable |
| 13:33.17 | T0mW | prpplague: is this in MMC mode or SD mode? |
| 13:33.21 | prpplague | neither |
| 13:33.24 | prpplague | T0mW: smartmedia |
| 13:33.28 | T0mW | oh! |
| 13:33.36 | T0mW | hmmm |
| 13:34.03 | prpplague | (and xD cards too) |
| 13:34.14 | T0mW | I'd go with the reader that you showed me the schematic to and bang it via the /dev/parport ioctls |
| 13:35.04 | T0mW | or, hook the bit lines up to a processor dev board that I'm currently developing code for, then dump the contents that way. |
| 13:35.17 | prpplague | yea, i got that built, just need to finish the software, however i want something for both long term usage, and also for easy of implementation so other ppl can replicate the work |
| 13:35.25 | T0mW | I think you are doing double work by going into the usb thing |
| 13:35.35 | T0mW | yeah |
| 13:35.43 | prpplague | T0mW: i want something i can buy off the shelf, load firmware and then do the job |
| 13:35.50 | T0mW | yeah |
| 13:36.03 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i have an arm board i'm working on now to add the nand flash support |
| 13:36.18 | prpplague | T0mW: basically i'm hitting the problem from three directions |
| 13:36.52 | T0mW | what, does the juicebox have a smartmedia reader / socket in it now? |
| 13:37.08 | T0mW | production model, not a hacked one |
| 13:37.25 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, nothing |
| 13:37.36 | prpplague | T0mW: the juiceware carts have a nand flash |
| 13:38.01 | prpplague | T0mW: i'm using smartmedia as a replacement for the OTP nand flash in cart |
| 13:38.13 | T0mW | why go with smartmedia then? I have an olympus camera that uses that stuff but I cannot seem to find smartmedia hanging on the rack at WalMart |
| 13:38.56 | prpplague | T0mW: don't have to be, could be xD, just that smartmedia is cheap right now, plus the contact pads are large and easy to solder to |
| 13:39.01 | T0mW | IIRC, smartmedia is the size of a matchbook cover, just as thin too |
| 13:39.07 | prpplague | T0mW: yea |
| 13:39.09 | T0mW | k |
| 13:39.23 | T0mW | prolly cheap cause nobody wants to use it |
| 13:39.31 | T0mW | ;-0 |
| 13:39.34 | prpplague | T0mW: probably the final hack would probably use xD |
| 13:39.37 | prpplague | T0mW: exactly |
| 13:39.59 | T0mW | I've got to write code for MMC pretty soon |
| 13:40.14 | prpplague | T0mW: plus the max size tops out at 128MB |
| 13:40.14 | prpplague | T0mW: easy peasy |
| 13:40.22 | prpplague | T0mW: arm? |
| 13:40.31 | T0mW | I'm doing the final checking on the PCB gerbers this morning and will sent it out today for PCB fabrication. |
| 13:40.44 | T0mW | prpplague: LPC2138 |
| 13:40.44 | prpplague | T0mW: for the philips arm? |
| 13:40.46 | T0mW | arm |
| 13:40.55 | prpplague | T0mW: arm or thumb? |
| 13:41.02 | T0mW | prpplague: thats why I got the BDI-2000 |
| 13:41.05 | T0mW | not sure |
| 13:41.13 | T0mW | if the compiler will do thumb, ok |
| 13:41.50 | T0mW | I assume thumb code will be EIP (PIC) |
| 13:41.53 | chouimat | T0mW: it does it (thumb) |
| 13:42.42 | T0mW | chouimat: I saw some postings about probs with gcc + thumb that were dated a while back, but haven't seen anything definative to say "yes, it does thumb". |
| 13:42.56 | chouimat | T0mW: I use gcc 4.0.1 |
| 13:43.09 | T0mW | of course, Kyle wants to sell me a compiler / dev system... |
| 13:43.28 | T0mW | runs under windows though, gak |
| 13:43.58 | T0mW | I was thinking of gcc + gdb + insight for the development |
| 13:44.15 | T0mW | I was thinking of gcc + gdb + insight + bdi-2000 for the development |
| 13:44.43 | T0mW | but, I have no fear of using gdb from the command line. :-P |
| 13:45.00 | prpplague | T0mW: there are lots of arm examples for mmc |
| 13:45.06 | prpplague | T0mW: i can send you some code we have |
| 13:45.11 | prpplague | T0mW: pretty easy stuff |
| 13:45.13 | T0mW | prpplague: dave, why not just use the juice box to program / read the smartmedia? |
| 13:45.37 | T0mW | prpplague: in a bit, I'll want to read over the spec first. |
| 13:46.02 | T0mW | prpplague: can you do that? |
| 13:46.23 | prpplague | T0mW: mainly because hooking up the jtag is a pain, i want to be able to program the card from a desktop and pop it into a unmodified(read unopened) juicebox |
| 13:46.33 | T0mW | right |
| 13:46.38 | prpplague | T0mW: yea i can read/write the card via jtag |
| 13:47.04 | T0mW | but you have to get some code into the juicebox first, how will you do that initial programming? |
| 13:47.20 | prpplague | T0mW: the bootrom is OTP, so no changing that |
| 13:47.34 | T0mW | jtag? or via some existing plug in code thingy? |
| 13:47.54 | prpplague | T0mW: what happens is the bootrom runs an app that copies code from the nand flash to ram and then jumps to it |
| 13:48.02 | T0mW | ah! |
| 13:48.04 | T0mW | ok |
| 13:48.09 | prpplague | T0mW: so what i have to do is be able to copy my bootloader on the smartmedia |
| 13:48.35 | T0mW | you keep saying nand flash. to me, "nand flash" is a technology, not a device |
| 13:48.48 | prpplague | T0mW: that is correct |
| 13:49.10 | prpplague | T0mW: i really don't care what kind of device it is, as long as it has a nand flash interface command structure |
| 13:49.30 | T0mW | even compact flash, MMC, etc? |
| 13:49.54 | prpplague | T0mW: those could be used if some glue logic was added to emulate a nand flash interface |
| 13:50.13 | prpplague | T0mW: i.e. a pic or avr to do the translation |
| 13:50.16 | T0mW | prpplague: you got a spec sheet I can look at for the "nand flash" ? |
| 13:50.21 | T0mW | the interface I mean |
| 13:50.27 | prpplague | T0mW: yea one sec |
| 13:52.09 | prpplague | T0mW: http://tinyurl.com/79jap |
| 13:52.29 | prpplague | T0mW: thats the smartmedia card i'm using |
| 13:54.29 | prpplague | T0mW: the pin functions are the same with all serial nand flash, and the command structure is standard amount serial nand flash as well |
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| 13:56.55 | T0mW | that is fscking weird! That command set / organization of the device is weird! no wonder nobody uses the stuff |
| 13:58.04 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, well just about every thumbdrive, cf card, mmc/sd, and portable mp3 player with internal storage uses it |
| 13:58.04 | T0mW | 528 byte blocks broken out into three sections: 256 + 256 + 16 bytes |
| 13:58.35 | T0mW | maybe inside, ok, but the realworld interface translates it into something useful |
| 13:58.42 | T0mW | heh |
| 13:58.49 | prpplague | hehe yea |
| 13:59.27 | T0mW | looks like the SmartMedia is the ultimate in stripped down nand flash technology: e.g. no controller, just an interface to the microcode engine |
| 13:59.43 | T0mW | blean |
| 13:59.45 | prpplague | yep |
| 13:59.47 | T0mW | bleah |
| 14:00.00 | prpplague | T0mW: smartmedia is kinda dead, the new version is xD card |
| 14:00.07 | T0mW | no sh!t |
| 14:00.14 | T0mW | lol |
| 14:00.15 | prpplague | T0mW: which is basically the same card just smaller |
| 14:00.43 | T0mW | I'll take the extra 10ma to get a sensible I/O interface |
| 14:00.50 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:01.16 | prpplague | T0mW: yea well the big selling point is no glue hardware needed |
| 14:01.25 | prpplague | T0mW: as well as cost |
| 14:01.56 | T0mW | ok, so you're telling me that the current juice boxes have a plugin cartridge that has a nand flash device, inside it, and the bootrom bangs this 528 byte crap out and loads it into RAM, then boots that? |
| 14:02.37 | T0mW | so, if you can stick your own nand flash into the cartridge, you can boot your code |
| 14:02.38 | prpplague | T0mW: essentially yes |
| 14:02.41 | T0mW | aha |
| 14:02.46 | T0mW | hmm |
| 14:03.28 | T0mW | no way to externally replace the bootrom, eh? Like an EB pin (External Boot)? |
| 14:03.43 | T0mW | boot from cartridge thing? |
| 14:03.44 | prpplague | T0mW: nope |
| 14:03.50 | T0mW | eew |
| 14:04.15 | T0mW | alright, you're up against the wall with no one at your back... punt |
| 14:04.26 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:04.39 | prpplague | T0mW: not really a problem, i already have made it work |
| 14:04.47 | T0mW | I see it this way |
| 14:04.49 | T0mW | ok |
| 14:04.52 | prpplague | T0mW: i'm just working on the method for replication |
| 14:05.26 | T0mW | how about a cartridge that has a smartmedia socket in it so you can change the cards, |
| 14:05.34 | prpplague | T0mW: bingo |
| 14:05.41 | prpplague | T0mW: actually it will be xD |
| 14:06.12 | T0mW | replicate the cartridge to other people so that they can insert this smartmedia cards which you will provide them with |
| 14:06.32 | T0mW | then you undertake the pain to program the first card(s) |
| 14:06.51 | prpplague | T0mW: sorry don't follow that |
| 14:07.00 | T0mW | as I see it, you need a system of some type to dump code into smartmedia cards. |
| 14:07.07 | prpplague | correct |
| 14:07.30 | T0mW | it has to have a smartmedia socket and talk to the nand flash |
| 14:07.38 | prpplague | T0mW: correct |
| 14:07.47 | T0mW | it could be anything, just a data dumper |
| 14:08.47 | T0mW | simple rs232 block protocol: e.g. <where to put this> <size of data block> <block data> <crc> |
| 14:09.00 | prpplague | T0mW: or..... |
| 14:09.15 | T0mW | simple rs232 block protocol: e.g. <command> [<where to put this> <size of data block> <block data>] <crc> |
| 14:09.18 | prpplague | T0mW: grab an off the shelf usb->cardreader with the ez-usb and make a custom firmware |
| 14:09.25 | T0mW | nah |
| 14:09.33 | T0mW | to much freaking work |
| 14:09.33 | prpplague | why not? |
| 14:09.43 | prpplague | its got to be replicatable |
| 14:10.16 | T0mW | what you do is make a smartmedia program that will boot the juicebox and that program will allow the juicebox to program other smartmedia cards. |
| 14:10.27 | T0mW | then you only have one unit: juicebox |
| 14:10.47 | prpplague | T0mW: what does that get you? |
| 14:12.11 | T0mW | prpplague: out of the loop, the people that get the cartridges from you (to plug in smartmedia into those cartridges) can then program their own smartmedia cards with code and not have to do anything more than have that cartridge + juicebox + the programming-smartmedia-boot |
| 14:12.33 | prpplague | T0mW: oh i see the confusing, i'm not providing carts |
| 14:12.40 | T0mW | why not |
| 14:12.44 | prpplague | T0mW: i'm just writing up a how to |
| 14:12.59 | prpplague | T0mW: 1) money 2)time 3) lack of business sense |
| 14:13.01 | T0mW | ok, somebody has to |
| 14:13.40 | prpplague | T0mW: why? the way i have it now, you can build everything from readily available parts |
| 14:14.05 | prpplague | T0mW: last part i need is the smartmedia programmer from the desktop |
| 14:14.22 | T0mW | if you want to popularize it (juicebox) then you have to make it simpler for people to put their own dev kit together. Most people want it *now*, and most people are not capable of doing the stuff that you would be able to do to build a smartmedia programmer. |
| 14:14.22 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe your welcome to run with it if you want |
| 14:14.52 | T0mW | /dev/parport then |
| 14:14.55 | T0mW | simple |
| 14:15.04 | T0mW | easily available |
| 14:15.06 | T0mW | runs linux |
| 14:15.27 | prpplague | T0mW: 1) the juicebox is a dead product 2) the only ppl that really have them are people that want to hack them, 3) thats why i wanted to use the usb->cardreader |
| 14:15.31 | T0mW | perf board, DB25, and some latches |
| 14:15.47 | chouimat | juicebox? |
| 14:16.01 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBox |
| 14:16.23 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, the main problem i have with the parport device is getting the latches |
| 14:16.57 | T0mW | prpplague: bbiab, got phone call, customer |
| 14:17.04 | prpplague | T0mW: np |
| 14:17.57 | chouimat | prpplague: interesting |
| 14:20.01 | prpplague | chouimat: i've hacked and hacked on the sucked |
| 14:20.03 | prpplague | sucker |
| 14:20.22 | prpplague | chouimat: i'm able to boot custom software from the smartmedia as a cart |
| 14:21.00 | chouimat | prpplague: cool ... currently trying to get my groupware/voip/jabber integration stuff before going back to the lpc2138 |
| 14:21.08 | T0mW | prpplague: back |
| 14:21.18 | prpplague | T0mW: front |
| 14:21.45 | T0mW | you said "getting the latches" did you mean "setting the latches" |
| 14:21.46 | T0mW | ? |
| 14:22.11 | prpplague | T0mW: purchasing |
| 14:22.20 | T0mW | digikey |
| 14:22.36 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, they 've been a beoych lately shipping to me :( |
| 14:22.42 | T0mW | they must be able to ship by boat |
| 14:23.09 | T0mW | via venezuala, via mexico, via texas |
| 14:23.10 | T0mW | ... |
| 14:23.13 | prpplague | T0mW: they can ship via fedex, but they give me a hard time as we don't have zip codes or cities |
| 14:23.14 | T0mW | :D |
| 14:23.23 | T0mW | LOL! |
| 14:23.37 | jbevren | uptime 28 days |
| 14:23.40 | jbevren | battery powered stuff is fun |
| 14:23.56 | T0mW | to: Dave, someplace on the north side of the island, barbados, |
| 14:24.05 | prpplague | T0mW: its like "what do you mean there is no city?" "uh, its a freakin island!" |
| 14:24.11 | T0mW | lol |
| 14:24.26 | T0mW | prpplague: do you call your order in? |
| 14:24.32 | jbevren | just tell them the city is barbados |
| 14:24.37 | prpplague | T0mW: yea i have to |
| 14:24.58 | T0mW | prpplague: ok, request a catalog, that will give you a customer account number |
| 14:26.15 | T0mW | once you get that customer number, setup your web account on their site, then do your orders from the secure site |
| 14:26.15 | T0mW | then the customer number will have the delivery information and you can avoid idiots |
| 14:26.16 | T0mW | prpplague: it's the only way to order from them, fast too! |
| 14:26.31 | T0mW | an online order ships within a few hours |
| 14:26.48 | prpplague | T0mW: i have to call the order in as my cc card account is overseas |
| 14:27.15 | prpplague | T0mW: trying to order from the states to overseas is a nightmare |
| 14:27.37 | prpplague | T0mW: ppl in the states act like they don't understand there are other places in the world |
| 14:28.28 | T0mW | prpplague: well, you did run naked on the sand |
| 14:28.30 | T0mW | ... |
| 14:28.37 | T0mW | prpplague: well, you did want to run naked on the sand |
| 14:28.45 | prpplague | T0mW: the online form for digikey requires a zip and city |
| 14:28.50 | T0mW | now you're paying the dues |
| 14:29.04 | T0mW | nope |
| 14:29.12 | CP|Laptop | I say, if he can run naked in the sand, then screw the electronics |
| 14:29.12 | T0mW | not if you setup your account |
| 14:29.14 | prpplague | T0mW: just tried it |
| 14:30.31 | T0mW | what I'm saying is to go through the pain of account setup once, negotiate with digikey once to nail down your address etc, then the web interface has it clad in stone |
| 14:31.16 | T0mW | prpplague: you gotta have acces to parts from someplace... |
| 14:31.20 | prpplague | T0mW: yea i follow what you mean |
| 14:31.45 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, what i've been doing is ordering them and having them sent to my brothers who reshipps them to me |
| 14:32.20 | prpplague | T0mW: i just think getting an off the shelf usb adapter would cut down on the building needed |
| 14:32.50 | T0mW | prpplague: if you don't want to do that. Go down to the docks, look for a boat captain that ferries to Mexico on a regular basis, and have him set you up a postal address in Mexico. then pay the guy to get your mail once or twice a week. |
| 14:32.57 | T0mW | ROTFLMFAO |
| 14:33.14 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, mexico is a long long long way off |
| 14:33.22 | prpplague | T0mW: be easy to boat to miami |
| 14:33.22 | T0mW | Brazil then |
| 14:33.45 | T0mW | prpplague: pay him in booze |
| 14:33.48 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:34.18 | T0mW | wait, if you do that, then he may be too drunk to recall what it was he was to do for you. bad idea |
| 14:34.22 | prpplague | T0mW: besides those third world places would have more trouble than i already have |
| 14:34.32 | T0mW | yeah, like theft |
| 14:35.26 | CP|Laptop | Hmmm.. Linux isn't really set up for me to send arbitrary ATA commands to a drive, is it? |
| 14:35.33 | T0mW | prpplague: mail from Ham Radio operators to Russia routinely got stolen because word got out that Hams would send a "green stamp" (U.S. Dollar) to cover the postage from Russia. |
| 14:36.03 | T0mW | CP|Laptop: not that I know of |
| 14:36.14 | T0mW | IDE driver is a macro |
| 14:36.20 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 14:36.34 | CP|Laptop | I hate that DOS is more functional for turn on then Linux |
| 14:36.37 | CP|Laptop | it makes me angry |
| 14:36.58 | T0mW | prpplague: we used sent to a post office address in Germany, then a Russian Ham would collect the mail and escort it home |
| 14:37.56 | T0mW | CP|Laptop: map the controller into address space and talk to it directly? |
| 14:38.35 | T0mW | ioremap (2.4 kernel) |
| 14:38.56 | CP|Laptop | T0mW: yeah, thats what I'm thinking - you would have to "work" around the current driver |
| 14:39.18 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: what is it you want to accomplish? |
| 14:39.20 | T0mW | naw, disconnect the IRQ though, then the current driver won't see you doing it |
| 14:39.42 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: IDE bus validation |
| 14:40.02 | T0mW | CP|Laptop: there is a field for the IRQ etc in the IDE descriptor structure |
| 14:40.30 | CP|Laptop | T0mW: oh, so you could re-route it to a different IRQ then? |
| 14:40.32 | CP|Laptop | Thats useful |
| 14:41.17 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: normal usage of the IDE drive doesn't nessesarly fire all the ATA commands that are possible |
| 14:41.33 | T0mW | CP|Laptop: you would then know where it would need to be reset to, or, simply rmmod ide-driver-name, ioremap / modprobe your new driver, then reverse the process to restart the normal IDE ATAPI handler |
| 14:41.37 | T0mW | doh |
| 14:41.44 | T0mW | need a drive to do that |
| 14:41.51 | CP|Laptop | We want a way to specify a particular ATA command to make sure the bus is acting correctly |
| 14:41.55 | T0mW | to find the dirver. |
| 14:41.57 | T0mW | nm |
| 14:43.01 | pb_ | CP|Home: I think you can use ioctl(HDIO_DRIVE_CMD) or some such. |
| 14:43.16 | CP|Laptop | pb_: Oh, really? That would be cool |
| 14:43.38 | T0mW | IDE driver code is generalized with a macro to define the I/O interface (how wide, byte endian, etc), but it all goes back to a data structure. When the particular drive controller is accessed it is governed by the values in the data structure |
| 14:43.51 | CP|Laptop | Assuming we don't freak out the driver - but if we don't actually do any block device access on the drive, it might work |
| 14:44.10 | CP|Laptop | becuase no block device accesses means that there are no pending requests from within the driver |
| 14:46.49 | CP|Laptop | hmmm... though I think HDIO_DRIVE_CMD would work |
| 14:46.55 | CP|Laptop | ~praise pb_ |
| 14:46.58 | ibot | All hail pb_! |
| 14:52.37 | jbevren | All hail pb_! |
| 14:52.38 | jbevren | hehe |
| 14:55.45 | pb_ | heh |
| 14:59.02 | kergoth | morning |
| 14:59.03 | prpplague | pb_: hey hey |
| 14:59.05 | kergoth | (unfortunately) |
| 14:59.20 | prpplague | kergoth: hey crack baby, didn't oversleep today? |
| 14:59.38 | kergoth | heh, i'm at work an hour later than i normally like to be |
| 14:59.44 | kergoth | i donjt remember shutting off the alarm |
| 14:59.46 | pb_ | hi plague |
| 14:59.48 | pb_ | hi kergoth |
| 14:59.48 | kergoth | but apparently i woke up and did so |
| 14:59.55 | kergoth | since it was off when i finally woke up |
| 14:59.56 | pb_ | heh, I hate it when that happens |
| 15:00.07 | CP|Laptop | I do that alot |
| 15:00.11 | CP|Laptop | wake up, its 30 minutes later |
| 15:00.16 | CP|Laptop | you're like WTF? |
| 15:00.47 | kergoth | yeah |
| 15:00.51 | prpplague | i usually set my alarm for like 30 minutes before i need to get up, and have it go off three times |
| 15:01.26 | prpplague | pb_: finally beat wpa into submission |
| 15:02.01 | kergoth | i need like 3 alarms around the room to go off in sequence or something |
| 15:02.56 | prpplague | kergoth: hmm, need something that dumps water on you and then provides some electricity |
| 15:03.29 | prpplague | seems like i saw moving with that in it |
| 15:03.44 | prpplague | jeeze i can't type today |
| 15:03.49 | prpplague | s/moving/movie |
| 15:04.57 | T0mW | drat, I just dropped a SOT-223 transistor on the rug |
| 15:05.13 | prpplague | heh |
| 15:05.47 | T0mW | picked up a couple of pipe tobacco flakes until I found it |
| 15:08.20 | kergoth | i need a series of alarms to work in phases. step one is open my blinds to ensure that the sun helps to bring me a bit closer to the surface (i'm a really deep sleeper), then the actual alarm sequence to pull me all the way to consciousness, and have them around the room so the getting up helps |
| 15:08.27 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:09.29 | T0mW | kergoth: fear of being fired for being late always worked for me |
| 15:09.38 | kergoth | heh |
| 15:09.45 | kergoth | i dont have fixed hours here |
| 15:09.53 | kergoth | as long as i'm here when most of the other peopel are so we can have meetings, its all good |
| 15:10.08 | T0mW | yeah, I used to overlap the afternoons |
| 15:10.42 | CP|Laptop | I usually have to be in on time because we have meetings with Germany |
| 15:10.51 | T0mW | I gave 'em from 2PM on to bother me, they would go home at 5PM and then I could concentrate to get work done. |
| 15:10.51 | kergoth | ugh, yeah, that sucks |
| 15:10.57 | CP|Laptop | But I don't know if thats worse then being in Germany, and having to have meetings at 5:00 PM |
| 15:11.04 | kergoth | hehe |
| 15:12.18 | CP|Laptop | Its pretty surreal to get on the phone with everybody in the US, and they're still eating doughnuts |
| 15:12.54 | kergoth | healthy breakfasts, yay |
| 15:13.39 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: had some good brew yet? |
| 15:13.42 | CP|Laptop | Yeah |
| 15:13.47 | CP|Laptop | Had a real good one at the hotel bar |
| 15:14.01 | prpplague | ahh the good ol hotel bar |
| 15:14.19 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: hows your german? |
| 15:14.54 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: horrible |
| 15:15.14 | prpplague | kergoth: sounds interesting, got the url? |
| 15:15.26 | kergoth | http://www.extremeplanner.com/blog/ |
| 15:15.30 | prpplague | CP|Laptop: most of the hotel staff speak english |
| 15:15.36 | kergoth | blog about agile development |
| 15:15.41 | kergoth | i like reading about development methodologies |
| 15:16.36 | CP|Laptop | prpplague: most everybody speaks english to some extent |
| 15:16.42 | T0mW | CP|Laptop: what was breakfast: bratwurst + beer? |
| 15:16.48 | CP|Laptop | Heh |
| 15:17.10 | CP|Laptop | no, the usual - lots of cheese, sausage, coffee |
| 15:18.07 | prpplague | kergoth: me too |
| 15:19.00 | prpplague | kergoth: that was what was so frustrating at abcs, they had this attitude that the way they did dev was exactly that "the way THEY did dev" |
| 15:19.20 | prpplague | kergoth: they didn't give a rats ass if someone had found more efficient ways of doing things |
| 15:19.22 | kergoth | CP|Home: google for 'failure' |
| 15:19.30 | kergoth | CP|Home: its pretty amusing |
| 15:19.35 | kergoth | prpplague: nod |
| 15:19.57 | CP|Laptop | classic |
| 15:21.42 | prpplague | kergoth: wonderful read - http://tinyurl.com/a2gax |
| 15:22.29 | prpplague | kergoth: and this one - http://tinyurl.com/9qcda |
| 15:22.44 | prpplague | kergoth: lots of insites about doing creative dev work |
| 15:23.55 | kergoth | hmm, cool |
| 15:24.06 | prpplague | kergoth: hehe, my boss at abcs was furious when i gave copies of the first book to my staff |
| 15:25.44 | prpplague | he called me in his office and ask "so you think we are all stupid here?" |
| 15:25.48 | CP|Laptop | heh - tinyurl isn't messing around when they say the URLs last forever |
| 15:26.00 | CP|Laptop | I missed the x on the first link, and got something totally different |
| 15:26.07 | prpplague | i had to bite me touch from saying "stupid is as stupid does" hehe |
| 15:26.21 | prpplague | s/touch/tongue |
| 15:26.26 | prpplague | jeeze i can't type today |
| 15:28.36 | kergoth | prpplague: theres some great articles on http://software.ericsink.com/index.html you might be interested in |
| 15:29.03 | prpplague | kergoth: oh cool thanks |
| 15:29.18 | kergoth | i'm sending the source control howto from there to the other developers at this company to teach them the fundamentals about it. but he has a number of articles on technology marketing.. marketing for geeks, etc |
| 15:30.29 | prpplague | kergoth: yea looking now, looks really good |
| 15:31.03 | kergoth | nod. apparently t hat guy was the person who founded abiword |
| 15:31.11 | prpplague | wow |
| 15:31.36 | kergoth | eep |
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| 15:31.47 | kergoth | ~emulate gir |
| 15:31.50 | ibot | i need tacos! i need tacos or i'll explode. that happens to me sometimes. |
| 15:31.56 | kergoth | hehe |
| 15:36.11 | file | ugh this code hurts my head |
| 15:37.13 | file | it's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine |
| 15:38.27 | file | this week is a good week, we're all working on separate projects and barely talking |
| 15:38.32 | file | and everything is just working |
| 15:41.09 | prpplague | kergoth: he has some good reads on that page |
| 15:48.32 | prpplague | kergoth: very good stuff, thanks |
| 15:53.13 | CP|Laptop | later, all |
| 15:53.18 | kergoth | np |
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| 15:57.30 | prpplague^2 | darn power outage again and my ups failed |
| 15:57.34 | kergoth | :( |
| 16:01.34 | kergoth | "Corollary: Next time you're interviewing for a job, pretend that the power structure is reversed. The hiring manager is trying to figure out if there is any chance you are worthy of the job. Ignore that. Instead, spend your time trying to figure out if there is any chance that guy is worthy of being your manager." |
| 16:02.42 | prpplague^2 | hehe |
| 16:02.52 | prpplague^2 | good instructions |
| 16:05.25 | jbevren | heh |
| 16:05.31 | jbevren | I did that with my current employer |
| 16:05.34 | jbevren | they wanted me |
| 16:05.37 | jbevren | I didnt ask to work for them |
| 16:05.45 | jbevren | so I did the interviewing lol |
| 16:06.05 | jbevren | asked them loads of financial stuff since its a small biz |
| 16:06.23 | jbevren | talked my way out of answering phones |
| 16:06.29 | jbevren | thats a bonus in the support field heh |
| 16:06.33 | jbevren | you get more done without phone calls |
| 16:07.09 | file | very true |
| 16:07.22 | file | I got out of being a call center agent initially too... |
| 16:07.32 | file | I was happy about that |
| 16:08.35 | prpplague | once i again i can't type today |
| 16:08.42 | file | apparently. |
| 16:10.23 | prpplague | i'm trying to finish paying off all my debts from my divorce as quickly as possible so i don't have to pay alot of interest, but its keeping my budget tight |
| 16:21.42 | kergoth | <-- Sativouf has quit ("Committee, n.: A group of men who individually can do nothing but as a group decide that nothing can be done. -- Fred Allen") |
| 16:24.01 | kergoth | hehe |
| 16:24.15 | kergoth | this book is called "My Job Went To India (And All I Got Was This Lousy Book)" |
| 16:24.31 | file | LOL |
| 16:28.53 | jbevren | committee: a group of the unwilling, selected from the incompetent, to do the impossible |
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| 16:59.39 | T` | moin guys |
| 16:59.41 | T` | hehhe.. zombie T`s vs. da real T` :) |
| 17:06.22 | T0mW | felt like a zombie myself last week, ended up in the hospital overnite |
| 17:08.05 | T0mW | inner ear infection, dizzy, vertigo |
| 17:08.15 | T0mW | thought I was having a stroke or something |
| 17:10.18 | T0mW | got an ECG, CAT scan. Took them 6 hours to figure out it was an ear infection |
| 17:10.45 | chouimat|busy | T0mW: minus a lot of $$$ in your bank account ;) |
| 17:11.30 | T0mW | naw, I've got a "get out of the hospital free" card, you got one of those? The bill was $4,300 |
| 17:11.42 | T0mW | s/card/cards/ |
| 17:11.57 | chouimat|busy | T0mW: I'm in canada ... so I pay taxes for this |
| 17:13.01 | T0mW | chouimat|busy: ok, so where it took 6 hours for the doctors to figure out the problem, in Canada it would take them 6 days? That would be 6 days to just see a doctor? |
| 17:13.06 | T0mW | ;-) |
| 17:13.22 | file | it takes my doctor 15 minutes to figure out I have an ear infection |
| 17:13.26 | file | then again, I've had so many I know myself |
| 17:13.46 | jbevren | never had one :P |
| 17:14.16 | file | genetics... my father's side of the family has hearing problems, I have them too |
| 17:14.37 | file | my mother's side of the family has some skin condition and some weird problem where like when you're eating or something, your eyes can water for no reason... |
| 17:15.00 | T0mW | file: that was the admitting doctor that figure it out, it took 6 hours for the emergency room doctors to give up and decide to admit me for more tests |
| 17:15.04 | file | haha |
| 17:15.16 | T0mW | no bull |
| 17:15.17 | file | SO - on antibiotics of course |
| 17:15.35 | T0mW | correct, and mechlazine for motion sickness |
| 17:15.43 | file | exciting. |
| 17:16.03 | T0mW | ooo! and a couple of valiums to "calm me down" |
| 17:16.11 | file | woot drugs |
| 17:16.53 | T0mW | I was a good boy though and took them a proscribed |
| 17:17.19 | file | gah dang it |
| 17:17.22 | file | I HATE THIS DOCUMENTATION |
| 17:18.15 | file | Example 1-13. append_branch usage |
| 17:18.22 | file | set_user("alice"); |
| 17:18.22 | file | t_fork(); |
| 17:18.22 | file | t_relay(); |
| 17:18.26 | file | okay - I don't see append_branch |
| 17:18.47 | file | son of a |
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| 18:58.37 | kergoth | ~tuesday |
| 18:58.40 | ibot | Tuesday sucks, because it follows Monday (see monday). |
| 19:03.37 | prpplague | kergoth: what is it now crack baby? |
| 19:08.57 | prpplague | T0mW: still don't think writing a new firmware for a ez-usb is a good idea? |
| 19:09.44 | kergoth | prpplague: heh, doing source control and svn 101 for the other devs here |
| 19:09.50 | kergoth | diagrams of changeset flow ont eh whiteboard, etc |
| 19:09.53 | kergoth | boring |
| 19:10.06 | kergoth | now i need to teach them svk to make merging less of a pain |
| 19:10.43 | prpplague | kergoth: i wish there was a good class on sc |
| 19:11.04 | kergoth | nod. i want something that teaches the _concepts_ |
| 19:11.07 | kergoth | not just usage of a specific tool |
| 19:11.29 | kergoth | the howto on that one eric guy's site is pretty good for that |
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| 19:31.19 | kergoth | prpplague: http://www.extremeplanner.com/blog/2005/06/why-90-equals-0-for-agile-projects.html is interesting |
| 19:32.49 | prpplague | kergoth: omg, thats me |
| 19:33.45 | kergoth | hehe |
| 19:34.11 | kergoth | i tend to finish the code and take my sweet time getting it integrated, tested, and documented |
| 19:34.15 | kergoth | need to work on that |
| 19:35.00 | prpplague | kergoth: yea, same here, i get everything working, but adding that widget on the menu takes forever |
| 19:35.18 | kergoth | whats stupid is, often doing it wont take that long :P |
| 19:35.22 | kergoth | i just dont seem to get it done |
| 19:35.26 | kergoth | heh |
| 19:35.33 | prpplague | kergoth: exactly |
| 19:35.48 | kergoth | probably cause thats the boring part :P |
| 19:36.29 | prpplague | yea, the challenge is over |
| 19:36.39 | kergoth | yep |
| 19:40.45 | chouimat|busy | kergoth: prpplague the fun part is the exploration to see if it can be done ... the rest is boring |
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