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| 00:33.29 | brendan_ | hi, can you use normal libc with buildroot, or is there a similar alternative to buildroot? |
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| 01:04.27 | CosmicPenguin | brendan_: check out OpenEmbeded |
| 01:04.30 | CosmicPenguin | Embedded even |
| 01:04.32 | CosmicPenguin | oe.handhelds.org |
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| 03:02.49 | *** topic/#elinux is #elinux Embedded Linux || http://eLinux.org/ || cross compile, uClibc, busybox, tinylogin, handhelds, post-sale linux installs ;-), etc. || free embedded linux training at http://free-electrons.com/news/news.2004-09-28/en |
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| 12:47.08 | LinuxCart | Hello all |
| 12:47.43 | LinuxCart | Once we have decided (we think) the CPU |
| 12:48.06 | LinuxCart | I think we have to investigate the memories.. RAM and FLASH |
| 12:48.32 | LinuxCart | could you suggest me where could I start¿? |
| 12:49.03 | LinuxCart | I'm first looking for some general info and the I'll dive into the manufacturer info |
| 12:49.16 | LinuxCart | for features and price |
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| 12:53.37 | LinuxCart | hey prpplague! |
| 12:53.45 | LinuxCart | I have just ask for an issue |
| 12:53.48 | prpplague | morning |
| 12:53.56 | prpplague | ok |
| 12:53.56 | LinuxCart | maybe you could advice me |
| 12:54.17 | LinuxCart | we are developing a module |
| 12:54.24 | LinuxCart | I was searching for the cpu |
| 12:54.36 | LinuxCart | I have one strong candidate, it is the at91rm9200 |
| 12:54.58 | LinuxCart | maybe it is too much for what I was looking, but it is cheap and low power |
| 12:55.19 | LinuxCart | I want to embedded linux there |
| 12:55.24 | LinuxCart | what do you think¿? |
| 12:55.37 | prpplague | don't get married, see a doctor to get rid of it, and hide your money in a swiss bank, that enough advice for today? |
| 12:56.07 | prpplague | LinuxCart: what kind of issue? |
| 12:56.09 | LinuxCart | hehe |
| 12:56.43 | prpplague | LinuxCart: i would need a lot more information |
| 12:56.47 | LinuxCart | not appliable to me, already married, i'm helthy and no money here |
| 12:56.48 | LinuxCart | :D |
| 12:56.55 | prpplague | LinuxCart: making that kind of decision is not done lightly |
| 12:57.16 | LinuxCart | I'd have expect that answer |
| 12:57.33 | LinuxCart | but as T0mW answered the same I'm ready... :) |
| 12:58.04 | LinuxCart | 3+ serial, usb, low power, low cost |
| 12:58.12 | LinuxCart | what other info do you need¿? |
| 12:58.15 | prpplague | you have to consider many things, target audience, total production cost, chip features, product methods, comaptibility with other devices, linux support |
| 12:58.31 | LinuxCart | i'm now concerned about linux support |
| 12:58.54 | prpplague | LinuxCart: are you planning to produce these devices? |
| 12:59.00 | LinuxCart | y |
| 12:59.39 | LinuxCart | what target audience impact at? |
| 13:00.56 | prpplague | LinuxCart: that determines alot about the level of support you will need |
| 13:01.33 | prpplague | LinuxCart: low end users are always wanting unusual configurations, so you will need lots of linux support |
| 13:01.37 | LinuxCart | we will developed fully ourselves, it is a vehicle tracking |
| 13:01.41 | LinuxCart | system |
| 13:01.49 | LinuxCart | no UI |
| 13:01.59 | LinuxCart | just cables and hw connectors |
| 13:02.26 | LinuxCart | I mean no SW UI |
| 13:03.09 | prpplague | LinuxCart: next question is why design something from scratch instead of using a core board and build around it? |
| 13:04.20 | LinuxCart | core boards doesn't fir very well |
| 13:04.26 | LinuxCart | moreover they are expensive |
| 13:04.33 | LinuxCart | s/fir/fit/ |
| 13:05.03 | LinuxCart | we want to have a module which includes cpu+RAM+flash |
| 13:05.16 | LinuxCart | small and <30$ |
| 13:05.38 | LinuxCart | the interface to a mother board will be defined by us |
| 13:05.49 | prpplague | LinuxCart: that will be difficult to do, imho |
| 13:06.50 | LinuxCart | why¿? |
| 13:07.12 | LinuxCart | what are the main difficulties for you¿? |
| 13:08.23 | prpplague | LinuxCart: very few chips that run linux now are not bga packages |
| 13:08.37 | prpplague | LinuxCart: bga is extremely difficult to do |
| 13:08.57 | prpplague | LinuxCart: unless you are planning to do 5000 units on the first run, i don't see you getting $30 cost |
| 13:09.09 | LinuxCart | I know, we run far from bga |
| 13:09.17 | prpplague | LinuxCart: your initial dev costs are gonna be about $1200 per unit |
| 13:09.28 | LinuxCart | the at91rm9200 |
| 13:09.45 | prpplague | LinuxCart: the lh79520 is one of the few arm7's that can run full linux and is qfp package |
| 13:09.57 | LinuxCart | is available as PQFP208 |
| 13:10.13 | LinuxCart | is about 12$ |
| 13:10.19 | prpplague | yea, thats pretty small as well |
| 13:10.24 | LinuxCart | then we need ram and flash |
| 13:10.50 | prpplague | do you have hardware people to do the schematic and layout work? |
| 13:10.54 | LinuxCart | is more expensive than an ARM7 but it includes USB host and 4 serial |
| 13:11.23 | LinuxCart | we do ourselves the schematics,and ask another firm to do layout |
| 13:11.47 | LinuxCart | we have some reference schematics for this micro |
| 13:12.25 | LinuxCart | layout here fo this module could be around 600$ |
| 13:12.33 | LinuxCart | s/fo/for/ |
| 13:13.06 | prpplague | have you done arm boards before? |
| 13:13.20 | LinuxCart | umm no :( |
| 13:13.29 | LinuxCart | this is the first |
| 13:13.43 | LinuxCart | but there's always a first one, isn't it? :) |
| 13:14.20 | LinuxCart | I'm quite encouraged with this proyect, I will work a lot, but I'll learn too |
| 13:14.23 | prpplague | LinuxCart: yes, but my personal experience is that on your first board you should triple the dev costs |
| 13:14.30 | LinuxCart | ok |
| 13:14.50 | LinuxCart | I hope my company could assume that |
| 13:15.10 | LinuxCart | in other case... I'll have to find another job :D |
| 13:15.15 | prpplague | i see |
| 13:15.42 | LinuxCart | we could have some sort of dev kit around 300$ |
| 13:16.58 | LinuxCart | i speak in $ but we use euro(¤), I assume a 1:1 relation, just for you to understand better |
| 13:17.43 | prpplague | LinuxCart: hehe, i understood |
| 13:18.10 | LinuxCart | I know as a begginer with this, there are a lot of risk I don't realize. |
| 13:18.52 | LinuxCart | and you experts could laugh at me because of my primary(basic) questions |
| 13:19.10 | prpplague | LinuxCart: if i were you, i would order a dev kit and build a proof-of-concept device first |
| 13:19.12 | LinuxCart | I know it's going to be hard but as a professional I need this experience |
| 13:19.24 | LinuxCart | sure, i'm on that |
| 13:19.35 | prpplague | LinuxCart: i understand |
| 13:20.19 | LinuxCart | but before I need two important knowledge, the ability for the micro to run linux, or better uclinux |
| 13:20.42 | LinuxCart | and also some estimation of the cost the memory would have, in price and in power consumption |
| 13:21.30 | prpplague | LinuxCart: just remember there is alot more to making a device that runs linux, you need methods to program a blank board and debug, for example JTAG, you also need to consider the initial board bring up WILL NOT be straight forward, especially with custom hardware |
| 13:21.55 | LinuxCart | I have been thinking, and reckon that it'd be better run uclinux, because of the smaller size and the more compact concept |
| 13:22.09 | LinuxCart | We will build a jtag (wiggler) |
| 13:22.29 | LinuxCart | it is a very simple device, just a 3-state buffer and some passives |
| 13:22.47 | LinuxCart | have seen some sw for linux to program it |
| 13:23.28 | LinuxCart | if this cheap doesn't work we will have to buy some more costly (abatron) device |
| 13:23.53 | LinuxCart | as I see it, for programming a blank (working) module you need |
| 13:24.10 | LinuxCart | the jtag device and a bootloader (U-boot) |
| 13:24.33 | prpplague | LinuxCart: does u-boot already support the atmel chip? |
| 13:25.22 | LinuxCart | good point! |
| 13:25.26 | LinuxCart | http://www.kwikbyte.com/KB9202_description_new.htm |
| 13:25.31 | LinuxCart | seems like it can |
| 13:25.49 | LinuxCart | you also have this: http://www.embeddedarm.com/epc/ts7200-spec-h.html |
| 13:26.01 | LinuxCart | recommended by our good friend T0mW |
| 13:26.42 | LinuxCart | of course I could be wrong, but as soon as I got any of this (or other similar) |
| 13:27.06 | LinuxCart | I will do the proof-of-concept |
| 13:27.14 | LinuxCart | you suggested before |
| 13:27.27 | LinuxCart | am i convincing you? :P |
| 13:27.32 | LinuxCart | hehe |
| 13:28.09 | LinuxCart | well I think an even better one, I could send it to you if you want... |
| 13:28.34 | LinuxCart | I meant I think I have an even better one |
| 13:28.46 | prpplague | LinuxCart: thank you for the offer, however, i have three new boards i have to have working by january 15th |
| 13:29.50 | LinuxCart | oh |
| 13:30.00 | LinuxCart | are they arm based¿? |
| 13:30.29 | LinuxCart | if you think I could help you anyway... you've been so kind to listen to me... |
| 13:30.52 | prpplague | lh79520, s3c2410 and s3c44b0x |
| 13:32.16 | LinuxCart | the first two were also my candidates, but they lack some more serial ports... |
| 13:32.55 | prpplague | adding uarts is not that hard |
| 13:33.02 | LinuxCart | remember my offer, if you think I could help you just tell |
| 13:33.14 | LinuxCart | do you mean using an extrnal UART¿? |
| 13:33.31 | prpplague | LinuxCart: hehe, i wish i could, these are commercial devices under NDA untill they are released |
| 13:33.48 | LinuxCart | cons are drivers, space, price and power consumption |
| 13:34.04 | LinuxCart | ok, good luck then |
| 13:34.30 | LinuxCart | then I won't be very curious on those.. :) |
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| 13:40.51 | LinuxCart | have to go for luncch, we'll go on later if you want... |
| 13:40.54 | LinuxCart | cu |
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| 14:43.09 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: morning |
| 14:43.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hey |
| 14:43.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: whats cookin? |
| 14:44.54 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: http://tinyurl.com/dt2fq |
| 14:45.38 | prpplague | interesting |
| 14:45.48 | CosmicPenguin | Its not much, but at least they're on sale |
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| 14:49.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: neandrathaland, colorado ? |
| 14:49.40 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 14:49.47 | CosmicPenguin | its a little hippy colony up in the mountains |
| 14:49.54 | prpplague | are the schematics available? |
| 14:49.59 | CosmicPenguin | good question |
| 14:50.01 | CosmicPenguin | they should be |
| 14:51.17 | CosmicPenguin | They are on the developer website |
| 14:51.23 | prpplague | ahh |
| 14:51.25 | CosmicPenguin | and yes, there should be at least a few GPIOs available |
| 14:51.43 | prpplague | if i get some time i might drop by the web site and have look |
| 14:53.24 | CosmicPenguin | On the schematic I see 5 unused gpios |
| 14:54.55 | prpplague | ahh |
| 14:55.10 | prpplague | that would be enough to bit bang a sd/mmc interface |
| 14:55.31 | CosmicPenguin | I would say so - wouldn't be horribly fast though |
| 14:55.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: are the address lines accessable? |
| 14:56.21 | CosmicPenguin | Not sure about that - I'm not skilled enough in the way of the schematic |
| 14:57.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: do i have to register to get to the schematic? |
| 14:57.24 | CosmicPenguin | I think so |
| 14:57.43 | CosmicPenguin | I'll check with somebody, but since we have a partner making and selling these, I'm sure they wouldn't be happy if we gave away the schematics for free... :( |
| 14:57.57 | CosmicPenguin | or at least without a nda |
| 14:57.57 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:58.14 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was just thinking of a bitbanged NAND interface |
| 14:58.23 | CosmicPenguin | oh - that would be nice to see |
| 14:58.50 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if i have access to 8 address lines i could bit bang interface to a xD card |
| 15:00.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm sure someone there would say "well why not just use a usb->xD adapter" hehe |
| 15:01.13 | CosmicPenguin | well, actually |
| 15:01.17 | CosmicPenguin | thats not exactly the case |
| 15:01.45 | prpplague | ? |
| 15:03.41 | CosmicPenguin | a native nand interface is interesting to us |
| 15:03.57 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:04.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: x86 design isn't my cup of tea, but i don't see any reason why you couldn't use the 5 gpios' and 8 address lines to interface to a nand interface |
| 15:05.32 | CosmicPenguin | Well, in this case, the processor doesn't matter squat |
| 15:06.45 | prpplague | hmm, so i could access the address bus relatively easy from kernel space? |
| 15:07.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've not looked at x86 dev in ages |
| 15:14.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe i guess you could always use a cf->xD adapter |
| 15:14.18 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, you should be able to get to it from kernel space - you might need to set descriptors in the processor, but that datasheet is freely available |
| 15:15.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: then it should be as simple as soldering on the connections |
| 15:16.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: your bios guys would do well to add some simple boot options |
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| 15:27.24 | Genesis | bonsoir |
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| 15:43.41 | psypete | was gonna drop this link in #uclibc, but according to that channel buildroot discussions are more suitable here... |
| 15:44.25 | psypete | basically i completely ripped off buildroot and made a cheezy little dev kit for a Car PC; takes some host files and downloads/compiles some other files and makes a rootfs |
| 15:44.27 | prpplague | yep |
| 15:44.44 | psypete | http://freshmeat.net/projects/carpc/ |
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| 16:20.09 | LinuxCart | prpplague: one more question, I hope not to abuse |
| 16:20.24 | LinuxCart | how many flash and ram memory do you think I'd need¿? |
| 16:21.16 | prpplague | LinuxCart: no clue what type of apps you will be running |
| 16:21.27 | LinuxCart | oh, true sorry |
| 16:22.16 | LinuxCart | no graphics, a little control application, maybe internet services as ftp, ssh and thttp |
| 16:22.39 | LinuxCart | some libraries, e.g: gps, internetworking TCP/IP, GPRS |
| 16:22.46 | LinuxCart | not much more |
| 16:26.08 | psypete | just jumping into this conversation, but it sounds like 16MB flash and about as much RAM would do |
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| 16:27.40 | LinuxCart | psypete: thank you for your answer psypete, I asked prpplague because I was talking with him before, but np to talk to you as well |
| 16:27.55 | LinuxCart | don't you think 4MB/8MB would be enough¿? |
| 16:28.28 | LinuxCart | flash of cource |
| 16:28.34 | LinuxCart | s/cource/course |
| 16:29.39 | prpplague | LinuxCart: 4mb flash and 16mb ram would probably do well |
| 16:29.56 | prpplague | LinuxCart: that would allow some flash storage with a 8mb ramdisk |
| 16:30.11 | LinuxCart | sorry, brb |
| 16:30.19 | psypete | less would work, just depends on how much you wanna squish the apps and files to fit |
| 16:30.35 | psypete | technically i got the same applications into less than 1.68MB plus a kernel |
| 16:31.29 | psypete | but at this point, is there much of a price difference between a 4MB and 16MB flash chip? |
| 16:32.02 | psypete | the higher the chips go in size the more the lower ones seem to even out in price, right? |
| 16:32.50 | LinuxCart | here again |
| 16:33.13 | LinuxCart | 1.68MB includes the kernel¿? |
| 16:33.58 | prpplague | LinuxCart: most of my builds for flash space i have about 500k for the kernel 600k for the ramdisk and 64k(max) for the bootloader |
| 16:33.58 | LinuxCart | well, you're right there shouldn't be much difference between 4 and 16MB flash, right¿? |
| 16:34.32 | LinuxCart | do you mean u-boot¿? |
| 16:34.39 | prpplague | LinuxCart: the remainder of your flash can be used as a jffs2 partition for storing system specific configurations |
| 16:35.00 | prpplague | LinuxCart: no we normally don;t use u-boot as the size is way too big |
| 16:35.19 | LinuxCart | how much could be u-boot in size¿? |
| 16:35.50 | prpplague | LinuxCart: u-boot , from my experience, generally is about 120k +/- 20k |
| 16:35.52 | LinuxCart | is that true that nand flash is not the most adequate for bootloader¿? |
| 16:35.55 | psypete | yeah but most systems' configs are fixed-length, otherwise they'd probably need lots more storage than a few meg |
| 16:36.51 | prpplague | LinuxCart: yes, nand is not a wise choice for booting, the s3c2410 has some options for booting from nand, but most ppl who need 100% assured reliability won;t use nand for booting |
| 16:37.24 | LinuxCart | so i should include two flash types, isn't it that a little messy¿? |
| 16:37.45 | prpplague | psypete: "fixed" or "hardcoded" are not words you want to hear in a production system, you need the ability to upgrade and change |
| 16:37.57 | prpplague | LinuxCart: again it all depends on your applications |
| 16:38.31 | prpplague | LinuxCart: easy solution would be to provide a small amount of NOR flash and then use something like sd/mmc for the remaining storage |
| 16:38.40 | LinuxCart | is it possible/advisable to use all nor flash |
| 16:39.09 | prpplague | LinuxCart: sure, most arm boards until recently used all nor |
| 16:39.10 | LinuxCart | is it possible to load the kernel and the rest from sd/mmc¿? |
| 16:39.25 | prpplague | LinuxCart: doing that now for two boards i have |
| 16:39.50 | prpplague | LinuxCart: bootloader starts from NOR then copies the kernel and ramdisk from the sd card into ram then jumps to the kernel |
| 16:39.52 | LinuxCart | those last are the best choices as you make me see it |
| 16:40.51 | LinuxCart | well, altough i'm still investigating seems that at91rm9200 could do that from an spi memory |
| 16:41.08 | LinuxCart | so I could avoid the nor flash, I suspect |
| 16:41.09 | prpplague | LinuxCart: yea sd/mmc is easy to implement using spi |
| 16:41.18 | prpplague | LinuxCart: nand you mean? |
| 16:41.30 | LinuxCart | is it fast enough to have code there¿? |
| 16:41.57 | prpplague | yea, i get about 75kbyte/sec transfers |
| 16:42.13 | LinuxCart | well, I understand that as nand is cheaper is preferred for that tasks (image and apps) |
| 16:43.11 | prpplague | LinuxCart: yea, but you still need some NOR to get the system started |
| 16:43.26 | prpplague | LinuxCart: or else some other device, i.e. an small eeprom |
| 16:43.36 | LinuxCart | that's right |
| 16:43.47 | LinuxCart | again brb, sorry a visit... :) |
| 16:45.10 | CosmicPenguin | thats hard when you don't have access to the BIOS code |
| 16:45.39 | prpplague | psypete: arm does have a "bios" per se, so its not an issue for us |
| 16:45.43 | prpplague | doesn't |
| 16:46.00 | psypete | figured :/ |
| 16:46.26 | CosmicPenguin | x86 legacy brings with it a lot of baggage |
| 16:46.43 | psypete | someone recommended me to a tool to remove parts of a bios image before flashing which i'll try, but past that it still takes like 4 seconds just to get past POST |
| 16:47.11 | psypete | i'd use ARM but i need (NTSC) video and afaik that's not one of its strong suits...? |
| 16:48.06 | prpplague | psypete: hmm i'd say that is a misconception(urban myth possible?) |
| 16:48.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe time for a mythbusters episode? |
| 16:49.00 | psypete | well now that i think of it some multimedia boxes are ARM-based |
| 16:49.07 | MonMotha | I could have sworn that some of the common ARM builtin video stuff could handle NTSC timings |
| 16:49.19 | MonMotha | I believe StrongARM could, though that's admitidly rather old |
| 16:50.21 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: well, you could remove the roms, that would cut down on time |
| 16:50.28 | CosmicPenguin | but if you remove the wrong rom, stuff won't work |
| 16:50.41 | prpplague | psypete: http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1093)-SanDisk_Photo_Album.aspx |
| 16:50.45 | CosmicPenguin | Like say the ATA rom |
| 16:50.57 | prpplague | psypete: arm7tdmi running at less that 100bogomips |
| 16:51.32 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i was saying it was a myth about arm not doing ntsc |
| 16:51.33 | MonMotha | all you really need to do is get the video timings right, then hook it up to an encoder that'll do the colorspace conversion and chroma modulation |
| 16:51.41 | CosmicPenguin | Oh... :) |
| 16:51.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 16:51.46 | psypete | ooh; 100 bogomips and it plays mp3's and video?? |
| 16:51.55 | prpplague | psypete: yep |
| 16:52.40 | prpplague | psypete: sandisk was even nice enough to leave jtag headers |
| 16:52.55 | prpplague | psypete: standard 2x7 header even |
| 16:53.40 | psypete | still, i already have my system set up here... i would kind of rather get it working |
| 16:54.05 | psypete | just need to shave some seconds off the boot time, and get the kernel to boot faster (patches anyone??) |
| 16:54.11 | prpplague | psypete: seen the new leapfrog unit? the kids handheld? |
| 16:54.17 | psypete | hmm nope |
| 16:54.31 | prpplague | psypete: its arm based and can output standard ntsc or pal |
| 16:54.54 | CosmicPenguin | psypete: well, that all depends on what you mean by "faster" |
| 16:55.04 | chouimat | hey prpplague CosmicPenguin |
| 16:55.14 | prpplague | chouimat: hey hey |
| 16:55.25 | prpplague | chouimat: is all the beer frozen yet? |
| 16:55.28 | chouimat | You realise if Romeo masturbated a few time each weeks... Romeo & Juliet would have a completely |
| 16:55.29 | chouimat | different ending. |
| 16:55.34 | chouimat | oops wrong windows |
| 16:55.42 | psypete | well the BIOS gets to loading the kernel by about 4 seconds, then the kernel starts loading and takes up to 6 seconds, but i can probably cut that down to 4 easily |
| 16:55.57 | prpplague | chouimat: hehe, thanks for the momment of philosophy |
| 16:56.10 | CosmicPenguin | psypete: 10 second boot isn't bad for x86 |
| 16:56.29 | prpplague | less than 10 your gonna have to do something with the bios |
| 16:56.36 | psypete | but this is for a car... every second i'm not listening to my MP3's is wasted time! |
| 16:56.39 | CosmicPenguin | specially with all the legacy crap that epia drags with |
| 16:56.45 | chouimat | prpplague: hehe ... if you think about it ... |
| 16:57.38 | prpplague | several of the bios manufacturers provide bios editing tools (or atleast they did when i still did x86) |
| 16:58.30 | psypete | there is one for the epia i found somewhere, going to play with it tonight |
| 16:58.55 | psypete | remove the PXE part, put on a custom boot image, trim it wherever else i can |
| 17:00.23 | prpplague | psypete: hope ya got an eprom burner, hehe |
| 17:02.00 | psypete | oh i figger once i break it i can buy a trashed mobo off ebay for like $5 |
| 17:03.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, which reminds me, does the thin client ref from amd have jtag header? |
| 17:04.12 | CosmicPenguin | you shouldn't be using anything that requires a heat sync in your car anyway |
| 17:04.32 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:04.51 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: do you have that URL? |
| 17:05.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: which url? |
| 17:05.07 | CosmicPenguin | the one from tinyurl |
| 17:05.10 | prpplague | the tinyurl for the ref? |
| 17:05.12 | CosmicPenguin | yeah |
| 17:05.20 | psypete | CosmicPenguin: you mean besides my stereo, and my amp, and my power inverter, and capacitors, and ... |
| 17:05.23 | prpplague | yea one sec |
| 17:05.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://tinyurl.com/dt2fq |
| 17:06.00 | CosmicPenguin | psypete: there you go - buy one of those |
| 17:06.03 | MonMotha | if your capacitors require a heat sink, something is probably wrong |
| 17:06.04 | prpplague | psypete: hehe, do a whois on CosmicPenguin , hehe |
| 17:06.58 | psypete | lol |
| 17:07.04 | psypete | my whole carpc cost me about $120 |
| 17:07.10 | psypete | including the case |
| 17:07.31 | CosmicPenguin | Yet you're angry becuase it has a 10 second boot |
| 17:07.43 | psypete | well cmon, 10 seconds!! |
| 17:07.49 | psypete | it can do better :P |
| 17:09.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ok you old homeless guy, a track star can make it to the end of the block 8 seconds, you should be able to make it 10 |
| 17:10.41 | CosmicPenguin | 3.53 seconds here |
| 17:10.48 | CosmicPenguin | And thats with a bloated kernel |
| 17:12.39 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: re your question before, it sure does |
| 17:13.03 | CosmicPenguin | I think its even pined out |
| 17:13.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: nice |
| 17:13.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: whats the bogomips on that (i know its not 100% accurate) ? |
| 17:13.51 | CosmicPenguin | crap, I don't have one up at the moment |
| 17:14.13 | CosmicPenguin | You would think I would know the damn bogomips, wouldn't you? |
| 17:14.25 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:14.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i guess only linux geeks would ask |
| 17:14.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not exactly like marketing is gonna put it on a press release |
| 17:14.59 | CosmicPenguin | they should... :) |
| 17:15.31 | CosmicPenguin | I'm going to ballpark between 200 and 300 |
| 17:15.48 | CosmicPenguin | and ~lart me for not having an image on a CF ready to go |
| 17:15.50 | psypete | but it's really not reflective of the performance of a given app |
| 17:15.56 | psypete | it's kinda arbitrary |
| 17:16.08 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: at what mhz? |
| 17:16.15 | CosmicPenguin | 400 real, 533 effective |
| 17:16.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ahh |
| 17:16.28 | CosmicPenguin | You know us AMDers, we're into the whole effective speed thing |
| 17:17.20 | psypete | that whole 'effective' thing doesn't work for me |
| 17:17.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: "how often do you get laid? 20 times a week real, 26 times effectively" |
| 17:18.02 | psypete | gf was more bummed out when she learned my advertisement of a 9 inch penis was only effective length :-( |
| 17:18.07 | CosmicPenguin | Hey, if Intel and Via are going to trumpet a BS stat like Mhz, then we need to compete somehow |
| 17:18.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 17:18.29 | psypete | ...so why not just match them? |
| 17:18.50 | CosmicPenguin | Because we can do the same benchmarking at a slower speed - slower speed means less heat and power |
| 17:19.14 | psypete | yeah but, people still buy intel, even though the chips are sucking up whole town generators |
| 17:19.17 | MonMotha | the P4 was designed to be clocked very fast, while doing next to nothing |
| 17:19.23 | prpplague | psypete: not here |
| 17:19.31 | prpplague | psypete: as power is a major issue |
| 17:19.34 | MonMotha | that was the point of the P4, to be the "MegaHurtz" king |
| 17:19.44 | MonMotha | of course, that also means it doubles as a space heater |
| 17:20.20 | psypete | as a friend of mine told me, she doesn't need to wear leg warmers anymore |
| 17:20.27 | psypete | just opens up her case and dips in the feet |
| 17:20.37 | CosmicPenguin | And a server room full of the new Intel dual cores could bake bread |
| 17:20.42 | prpplague | psypete: when you have only three generators for the entire island, power is important |
| 17:21.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.phys.ncku.edu.tw/%7Ehtsu/humor/fry_egg.html |
| 17:22.06 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, but those were the old days |
| 17:22.18 | prpplague | hehe yea |
| 17:22.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: at less that 1watt geode rocks |
| 17:22.37 | prpplague | than |
| 17:22.55 | prpplague | hehe (for an x86) hehe |
| 17:24.12 | CosmicPenguin | Heh - well, we do what we can |
| 17:24.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: speaking of do what you can, you seen "Something the Lord Made" ? |
| 17:25.05 | CosmicPenguin | nope |
| 17:25.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: good movie, hbo original movie |
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| 17:25.48 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i have no clue why these lcd timings always give me problems |
| 17:25.55 | prpplague | TimRiker: hey hey |
| 17:26.15 | prpplague | TimRiker: hows life in the beehive state? |
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| 17:36.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: tomorrow is the big independence day stuff, fun fun |
| 17:36.59 | psypete | prpplague: what island? |
| 17:37.15 | prpplague | barbados |
| 17:37.41 | psypete | cool! |
| 17:38.01 | psypete | i have some friends from there, plus went over on a business trip |
| 17:38.16 | psypete | you poor people and your internet and phone monopoly :( |
| 17:38.55 | prpplague | 1) i'm a US citizen, 2) i'm getting 2mb adsl for $15.00 |
| 17:39.51 | prpplague | psypete: biz trip for what? |
| 17:48.00 | psypete | was trying to fix someone's small business network |
| 17:48.15 | prpplague | psypete: remember the name? |
| 18:06.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.hbo.com/films/stlm/ |
| 18:09.20 | psypete | the business' name, no |
| 18:10.22 | psypete | but the people i used to know were Geoffrey and Helen Paris |
| 18:10.29 | psypete | with a daughter Robyn |
| 18:10.43 | prpplague | hmm, doesn't ring a bell |
| 18:16.22 | psypete | they ran some tourism thing |
| 18:16.33 | psypete | would set up companies to go out on cruises or something |
| 18:17.30 | prpplague | ahh |
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| 21:29.56 | andersee | TimRiker: I hope there wasn't anything important on that 120GB drive of yours... looks as i wiped it at some point. |
| 21:32.16 | file | andersee: he had the universe on it :\ |
| 21:34.24 | psypete | oh great, now god has to retype all that code... |
| 21:35.13 | T0mW | may I make some suggestions... ? |
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| 22:46.38 | Genesis | bonne nuit |
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