| 00:00.19 | CosmicPenguin | bbl - its time for german class |
| 00:04.56 | kergoth | ah right, c guy, you dont do much OO. a singleton is an object for which only one will ever exist. think of it like having a single error object for the entire application, with multiple threads changing its error number without any mutual exclusion mechanisms, even. so one part of the code raises an exception, but by the time it gets caught and told to the user, its message could have been changed by someone else raising another |
| 00:05.05 | kergoth | just disgusting. some people get design pattern crazy |
| 00:05.34 | kergoth | heh, that wtf is reminiscent of 'errno'. you know how sometimes the perror() message doesnt always reflect reality.. :) |
| 00:05.44 | file[laptop] | who needs reality |
| 00:05.47 | kergoth | hehe |
| 00:05.51 | kergoth | reality is overrated, i say |
| 00:05.52 | file[laptop] | not I, I say! |
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| 07:29.16 | Russ | gmail chats? |
| 07:34.14 | Xires | do what? |
| 07:40.46 | Russ | aparently logs of everything you've said with the google chat client |
| 07:40.56 | Russ | (in gmail) |
| 07:42.16 | Xires | mhmm |
| 07:43.37 | kergoth | heh. google chat. no thanks |
| 07:44.05 | kergoth | sheesh, my vimrc is up to 656 lines with 19 plugins in .vim/plugins/ |
| 07:44.42 | Russ | maybe you should rename it to emacs |
| 07:44.50 | kergoth | hehe. thats what i was thinking |
| 07:44.54 | kergoth | i should trim it down a bit :) |
| 07:45.24 | Xires | kergoth; what ya got in there? |
| 07:47.14 | kergoth | http://kergoth.com/files/vimbits/ is my current setup |
| 07:48.24 | Xires | my G0d kergoth |
| 07:52.42 | kergoth | hehe |
| 07:55.08 | Xires | mind if I use some of these? |
| 07:55.28 | kergoth | feel free, lots of that was swiped from all sorts of places |
| 07:55.33 | kergoth | :) |
| 08:01.21 | Xires | <3 wget -r |
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| 14:40.22 | AMDPenguin | Morning |
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| 14:50.46 | prpplague | ~lart CosmicPenguin |
| 14:51.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: how come there aren't gonna be any amd based Mac's? |
| 14:52.08 | CosmicPenguin | Probably the same reason there aren't any AMD based Dells |
| 14:53.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: for generic linux distro builds, the geode needs to been for i386 right? |
| 14:53.25 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: or i386 |
| 14:53.28 | CosmicPenguin | for best performance |
| 14:53.36 | CosmicPenguin | err.. or i486 |
| 14:53.51 | CosmicPenguin | stay away from 586, but turn on MMX and 3DNOw if you can |
| 14:54.05 | CosmicPenguin | i586 is a performance loss for us, MMX/3DNOW is a performance gain |
| 14:55.29 | CosmicPenguin | We have done some impressive work lately on refactoring memcpy to be a win for 586 instructions on our platforms |
| 14:55.49 | CosmicPenguin | Heh - funny enough, the guy doing it found a bug in the memcpy that spead up the pentium memcpy by 100% |
| 14:56.17 | CosmicPenguin | innd sucks! |
| 14:56.20 | CosmicPenguin | it sucks rocks! |
| 14:56.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: fun fun |
| 14:56.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: still grappling with my network driver |
| 14:57.03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: atleast it insmod's with no errors and finds the device |
| 14:57.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not much more |
| 14:57.10 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: thats always a good first step |
| 14:57.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm such a slow learner |
| 14:58.22 | CosmicPenguin | I have so much to do |
| 14:58.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you and me both |
| 14:58.47 | CosmicPenguin | I have 25 outstanding patches in my alchemy tree |
| 14:59.10 | CosmicPenguin | I swear, if it wasn't for quilt and stgit, I would have probably quit by now |
| 14:59.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: got this network driver, buildroot updates for two platforms, legacy usb issue with pppd, a spi keyboard interface and some bootloader patches |
| 14:59.39 | CosmicPenguin | A spi keyboard? |
| 14:59.48 | CosmicPenguin | Is it cheap? |
| 14:59.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, custom hardware |
| 15:00.07 | CosmicPenguin | doh |
| 15:00.13 | CosmicPenguin | I'm on the lookout for simple SPI devices |
| 15:00.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we had problems with the keyboard on the M7100 where when ppl dropped it the connections would get broken |
| 15:00.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we were using a for 8x8 matrix |
| 15:00.58 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so lots of wires |
| 15:01.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: new model will have a atmega avr to handle the matrix decoding |
| 15:01.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and connected to the main board via spi |
| 15:01.33 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: only 5 wires |
| 15:01.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: on a flex connector |
| 15:01.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: so no more broken wires |
| 15:01.55 | CosmicPenguin | nice |
| 15:02.10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we are moving all of our major components over to spi |
| 15:02.35 | CosmicPenguin | spi is nice |
| 15:02.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: wireless nic, ethernet, storage(sd/mmc), keyboard |
| 15:02.45 | CosmicPenguin | The new spi framework in the kernel is pretty good |
| 15:02.52 | CosmicPenguin | I've been playing with it on the Alchemy |
| 15:02.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: helps with reusability of the modules |
| 15:03.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: we can use all those modules with different motherboards without hardware modifications |
| 15:03.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: just software changes |
| 15:03.34 | CosmicPenguin | indeed |
| 15:03.39 | CosmicPenguin | I'm familiar with that concept |
| 15:03.42 | CosmicPenguin | you might have heard of PCI? |
| 15:03.44 | CosmicPenguin | same idea |
| 15:04.11 | prpplague | hehe yea, just that pci doesn't fit well with handhelds, hehe |
| 15:04.16 | CosmicPenguin | That depends |
| 15:04.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: do tell |
| 15:05.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you still listen to groove salad sometimes? |
| 15:06.15 | CosmicPenguin | no, I've been doing Pandora lately |
| 15:06.23 | CosmicPenguin | I've got a channel I'm working on of my favorite bands |
| 15:06.26 | prpplague | pandora? |
| 15:06.37 | CosmicPenguin | and my friend gave me a great channel of techno |
| 15:06.39 | CosmicPenguin | pandora.com |
| 15:06.41 | CosmicPenguin | its wicked fun |
| 15:07.20 | CosmicPenguin | Its good if you're into finding new music |
| 15:08.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: interesting |
| 15:09.09 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah - my current channel started with Widespread Panic, Big Head Todd and the Monsters, Tom Petty, Green Day and a few others |
| 15:09.23 | CosmicPenguin | but its evolved into more of a Wallflowers / Fastball sort of sound |
| 15:09.34 | CosmicPenguin | I'm thinking of doing a channel with more alternative music in it |
| 15:10.28 | prpplague | hmm, it only plays through the web browser? |
| 15:10.59 | CosmicPenguin | Yeah, flash |
| 15:11.11 | prpplague | hmm, interesting |
| 15:11.17 | prpplague | i'm not getting any audio |
| 15:11.17 | CosmicPenguin | Its music |
| 15:11.21 | chouimat | hi prpplague CosmicPenguin |
| 15:11.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: thanks for info, i'll have to find out why my browser isn't doing audio |
| 15:12.01 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: good luck |
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| 15:41.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: "divert: not allocating divert_blk for non-ethernet device enc28j60" |
| 15:41.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm getting that in my log when i insmod my driver |
| 15:41.47 | CosmicPenguin | wow |
| 15:41.50 | CosmicPenguin | thats a new one to me |
| 15:42.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: divert? |
| 15:42.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sounds fishy |
| 15:43.20 | CosmicPenguin | divert is an ISDN driver |
| 15:43.41 | CosmicPenguin | at least in mainline |
| 15:44.02 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:44.19 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: probably my box is loading a driver it shouldn't |
| 15:44.27 | CosmicPenguin | Or its trying |
| 15:44.31 | CosmicPenguin | you using Redhat or something crappy like that? |
| 15:44.49 | prpplague | hehe yea |
| 16:03.00 | CosmicPenguin | ARGH! |
| 16:03.05 | CosmicPenguin | When will these people learn to make a patch? |
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| 16:04.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
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| 17:07.37 | CosmicPenguin | argh - I really need some code monkeys |
| 17:07.53 | CosmicPenguin | we should be trying the latest git HEAD at least weekly, if not bi-weekly on all our platforms |
| 17:11.31 | prpplague | --- [scanlime] (n=micah@pdpc/supporter/active/scanline) : Micah Dowty |
| 17:11.31 | prpplague | --- [scanlime] irc.freenode.net :http://freenode.net/ |
| 17:11.31 | prpplague | --- [scanlime] is away (Not available, messages are logged) |
| 17:11.31 | prpplague | --- scanlime :is identified to services |
| 17:11.31 | prpplague | --- [scanlime] End of WHOIS list. |
| 17:12.20 | CosmicPenguin | does he hang out in any rooms with ibot? |
| 17:13.01 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: normally he is in #tacobeam , not usre if thats one that has one of tim's bots |
| 17:13.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: doesn't look so |
| 17:14.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i have so much to do |
| 17:15.03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've got like 5 drivers i need to write |
| 17:15.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: and i still haven't printed out the new cover sheets for the TPS reports |
| 17:25.34 | T0mW | TPS == The Personal Sh!t ? |
| 17:27.17 | prpplague | ibot: TPS report is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TPS_report |
| 17:27.20 | ibot | okay, prpplague |
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| 17:29.16 | prpplague | T0mW: you get that memo? |
| 17:29.31 | CosmicPenguin | Its not just about me, and my dream of doing nothing |
| 17:31.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: well, i've got something fudged |
| 17:31.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as soon as i do an ifconfig on my network interface, the device kernel panics |
| 17:37.43 | prpplague | kergoth: nothing to see here , go back to sleep |
| 17:37.54 | prpplague | kergoth: move it move it move it |
| 17:39.25 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: cool - kernel panics are good |
| 17:40.32 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: what can I use to evaluate SPI devices on a desktop platform? |
| 17:40.42 | CosmicPenguin | are there any good PCI->SPI interface cards? |
| 17:41.29 | kergoth | morning |
| 17:42.55 | CosmicPenguin | ACPI is the devil, by the way |
| 17:43.21 | CosmicPenguin | Just in case you might have heard otherwise |
| 17:43.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: http://www.dlpdesign.com/usb/2232m.shtml |
| 17:44.09 | CosmicPenguin | You just showing me that, or was that intended to be an asnwer to my question? |
| 17:44.26 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: desktop evaluation of spi |
| 17:44.33 | CosmicPenguin | That would be a USB dim |
| 17:44.40 | CosmicPenguin | s/dim/board/ |
| 17:45.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: maybe i mis understood what you were asking |
| 17:45.15 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: can you explain in more detail what you would like to do |
| 17:45.27 | CosmicPenguin | its possible I don't understand what I want to do |
| 17:45.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 17:46.35 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: if you want to learn about SPI and experient with connecting devices using the SPI interface, then the dlpdesign device i listed is a great choice |
| 17:49.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the ft2232 chip has built in SPI functionality |
| 17:49.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: there is an open source lib for interfacing to the chip |
| 17:49.44 | CosmicPenguin | Never mind - it was a stupid question |
| 17:49.49 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 17:49.57 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: why stupid? |
| 17:50.12 | CosmicPenguin | I have specific devices I need to evaluate |
| 17:50.25 | CosmicPenguin | And I was trying to figure out what drivers I needed to write for the master |
| 17:50.29 | CosmicPenguin | but now I got my answer |
| 17:50.59 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: well you can use the ft2232 to basic work |
| 17:51.16 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the only thing you would have to change is the hardware init |
| 17:51.26 | CosmicPenguin | You're miss understanding what I'm trying to do |
| 17:51.50 | CosmicPenguin | But thats ok - you helped me to understand more |
| 17:51.54 | CosmicPenguin | and understanding is good |
| 17:52.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: you have a device A which has a SPI slave interface and you want to evaluate it on your desktop before trying to get it to work with your specific host SPI master |
| 17:53.32 | CosmicPenguin | but I'm not really interested in writing 8 different SPI masters to evaluate devices that I won't even be using for validation |
| 17:54.14 | CosmicPenguin | But, assuming the device has an evaulation platform, I think I can swing it |
| 17:54.16 | CosmicPenguin | Like this |
| 17:54.18 | CosmicPenguin | http://www.maxim-ic.com/getds.cfm?qv_pk=3310 |
| 17:54.25 | CosmicPenguin | We already have a parallel port SPI driver |
| 17:55.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: how is that any different than the ft2232 board from dlpdesign? |
| 17:55.57 | CosmicPenguin | well, for one, the device is a cannidate for my validation cycle |
| 17:56.02 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not trying to be argumenative (just curious) |
| 17:56.14 | CosmicPenguin | and I would need to write a driver f or it |
| 17:56.27 | CosmicPenguin | so if I did write a driver for it, I would like to test it on a desktop system first |
| 17:56.56 | CosmicPenguin | Thats known work - what I don't know (or didn't know) is what sort of work I needed to do to write SPI master drivers to bridge the gap |
| 17:58.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmmm |
| 17:59.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: ok i think i see where you are getting at |
| 17:59.40 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: a little bit different direction that i have to do |
| 18:06.52 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: don't get me wrong, we need the master drivers too |
| 18:07.10 | CosmicPenguin | but since SPI is so new in Linux, we have to address the functionality as well |
| 18:08.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, i did not understand that statement |
| 18:08.14 | CosmicPenguin | Ok, take MTD |
| 18:08.28 | prpplague | ok |
| 18:08.38 | CosmicPenguin | If I had an new device with a flash controller, then I would write a driver for the flash controller, right? |
| 18:09.07 | prpplague | right |
| 18:09.23 | CosmicPenguin | But, since MTD is pretty mature in Linux, the odds are pretty good that I won't need to write any drivers for the chips, since they'll probably be supported |
| 18:09.43 | CosmicPenguin | But the SPI support in Linux is brand new, and there are only three device supported |
| 18:10.06 | CosmicPenguin | So in addition to writing the controller driver, I'm probably going to have to write a driver for any devices that we choose to use |
| 18:10.20 | CosmicPenguin | unless its one of the 3 already supported |
| 18:10.30 | CosmicPenguin | Which, at this point, it doesn't look like it will be |
| 18:10.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: right, well, here is the deal, SPI controller is gonna be different on virtually every platform |
| 18:11.06 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: as most of the SPI controllers are in the SoC |
| 18:11.52 | CosmicPenguin | Indeed |
| 18:12.02 | CosmicPenguin | Just like most of the flash controllers are in the SoC |
| 18:12.39 | prpplague | hmm |
| 18:12.42 | CosmicPenguin | But here's the kicker - it just so happens that my employer produces SoCs |
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| 18:12.58 | CosmicPenguin | So I know what my SPI controller is going to look like |
| 18:13.03 | prpplague | right |
| 18:13.48 | kergoth | gods terminal emulation is such a mess. terminals setting setting their TERM to xterm, faking it, even though the features they support is quite different.. |
| 18:14.17 | prpplague | kergoth: hehe, welcome to the wild world of legacy terminal emulation |
| 18:14.41 | kergoth | i'm not even in legacy, i just want my applications to pick up on the fact that i'm using a terminal that supports more than 8 damn colors |
| 18:15.10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm sorry to be so dense but i guess i'm missing your problem |
| 18:15.27 | kergoth | i.e. ssh somewhere from putty in windows. it sets TERM to xterm, but putty supports 256 colors, not 8. |
| 18:16.21 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: like some of the other SPI drivers aml uses, its one driver, and that driver does basic spi funtion calls |
| 18:16.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that driver has no idea what SPI hardware its using due to the HAL |
| 18:17.13 | kergoth | there should really be a putty terminfo entry, but then you're hosed sshing to boxes taht dont have the entry |
| 18:17.22 | kergoth | gods both termcap and terminfo are such a lame approach to the problem |
| 18:17.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i can substitute my ft2232 spi driver or the s3c2410 spi driver, the actual device driver has no clue whats being sued |
| 18:17.41 | kergoth | one should be able to simply query the terminal asking what their features are. |
| 18:17.54 | prpplague | kergoth: hehe |
| 18:18.04 | prpplague | kergoth: btdt, don't want to go back |
| 18:18.26 | kergoth | i just switched my vim color scheme to one that supports 88 or 256 colors, and just want it to look nice :) |
| 18:18.38 | prpplague | kergoth: and there are a ton of software packages that export even more variables through the connection |
| 18:19.56 | prpplague | kergoth: some packages will use the TERM to transmit other info, i.e. TERM="vt220 2 1 1" |
| 18:20.03 | kergoth | ack |
| 18:20.04 | kergoth | thats disgusting |
| 18:20.39 | kergoth | there are escape codes to ask some terminals for information... thats the clean way of doing it.. but that doesnt help for legacy terminals / terminal emulators |
| 18:20.39 | prpplague | kergoth: where during login it strips it out as vt220 terminal, on the second screen, with 1 barcode scanner, and 1 cash slip printer |
| 18:20.42 | kergoth | heh |
| 18:23.44 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: back to your MTD example |
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| 18:25.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: thats a little different than the spi interface |
| 18:26.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: the flash controller is specifically controlling the flash, you are only writing one driver |
| 18:26.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: with spi, you are techinally having to write two drivers |
| 18:26.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: one driver for the spi controller, and then one for the actual device |
| 18:29.10 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 18:29.34 | T0mW | we called them simply: weekly progress reports |
| 18:30.07 | T0mW | anyone do anything with CAN ? |
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| 18:33.01 | Chocobo | Is the m68k offically supported by the GCC toolchain? |
| 18:33.18 | T0mW | 68K what? |
| 18:33.37 | T0mW | 68020 ? 68VZ328 ? |
| 18:37.30 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: exactly |
| 18:37.45 | Chocobo | Umm... Motorola 68000 |
| 18:37.47 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: yeah, I'm pretty sure it is |
| 18:37.50 | CosmicPenguin | I mean, how can it not be? |
| 18:37.57 | T0mW | :) |
| 18:38.23 | T0mW | Yeah, they even do the S8 |
| 18:38.29 | T0mW | Super8 |
| 18:38.53 | Chocobo | So making a cross compiler should be relatively straight forward then... --target=m68k |
| 18:39.24 | T0mW | Chocobo: bit more involved than that, but essentially, yes. |
| 18:39.31 | CosmicPenguin | They just make things more complicated then they need to |
| 18:39.33 | CosmicPenguin | err |
| 18:39.33 | CosmicPenguin | sorry |
| 18:40.38 | T0mW | Chocobo: this is how I build a cross gcc for ARM7TDMI-S Thumb: http://www.openhardware.net/?title=ARM%20Thumb%20tools%20for%20LPC2000&dir=ArmTools&file=ThumbToolchain.html |
| 18:40.59 | T0mW | Chocobo: you'll do something similar |
| 18:41.10 | T0mW | hmmm |
| 18:41.11 | Chocobo | Alright... so basic steps are... compile binutils for m68k, then build gcc-core for m68k. I am not sure how the c library works... that is still a bit confusing to me. Do you recommend a speific version of binutils and gcc or just the latest? |
| 18:41.33 | T0mW | whatever, usually latest may be ok. |
| 18:41.41 | T0mW | hmmm |
| 18:42.11 | T0mW | since this channel is just filthy with ARM people, shouldn't Tim call this "#arm-elinux" ? |
| 18:42.37 | file | DEATH TO AERMIKA |
| 18:42.39 | file | er I mean hi |
| 18:42.40 | Chocobo | I would love to try the arm processor too... and the TI MSP430. |
| 18:42.43 | T0mW | Chocobo: come to think of it, why are you using a 68K and not ARM ? |
| 18:42.47 | kergoth | hehe |
| 18:42.54 | T0mW | :P |
| 18:42.57 | kergoth | file: you just got rammstein's song "amerika" stuck in my head |
| 18:43.11 | kergoth | 'we're all living in amerika, cocacola, wonderbra' or some such |
| 18:43.17 | T0mW | ~bitchslap file |
| 18:43.19 | ibot | ACTION beats the sh*t out of file |
| 18:43.21 | Chocobo | Because a course one of my professors is teaching uses the 68000, so I thought it would be fun to make a cross compiler. |
| 18:43.34 | kergoth | you must have a strange idea of "fun" |
| 18:43.35 | kergoth | ;) |
| 18:43.43 | T0mW | Chocobo: ok, you are excused.. you may proceed |
| 18:43.54 | Chocobo | lol. thanks. |
| 18:44.15 | T0mW | I wonder just what you can learn from a 68K processor though? |
| 18:44.29 | kergoth | Chocobo: i'd recommend taking a look at using crosstool or openembedded to build your toolchain, itll be a lot less painful than donig so manually |
| 18:44.29 | CosmicPenguin | Because its easy to use? |
| 18:44.32 | T0mW | maybe he got a real good academic deal on dev kits from Motorola? |
| 18:44.33 | CosmicPenguin | and cheap as all get out? |
| 18:44.55 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: yeah, nobody is buying them so they are overstocked |
| 18:45.02 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 18:45.07 | Chocobo | I tried crosstool and it failed during the build :/ |
| 18:45.17 | kergoth | :( |
| 18:45.32 | T0mW | Chocobo: probably would, 68K stuff is not that popular. |
| 18:45.48 | CosmicPenguin | Used to be though |
| 18:45.53 | T0mW | Chocobo: although, look to apple stuff, Yellow Dog Linux? |
| 18:46.06 | T0mW | Chocobo: that was a distro that ran under 68k |
| 18:46.09 | CosmicPenguin | back at ol' Cabletron, we made a FDDI blade for the switch with a 68k |
| 18:46.22 | T0mW | euwww |
| 18:46.25 | CosmicPenguin | Of course, FDDI itself was evil |
| 18:46.52 | T0mW | 68K is a step up from the Z80 |
| 18:47.13 | CosmicPenguin | Oh, so its like the ARM then? |
| 18:47.19 | T0mW | lol |
| 18:47.31 | T0mW | yeah, just more registers |
| 18:47.43 | Chocobo | wow. Openembedded looks complicated. |
| 18:48.07 | kergoth | its most commonly used to build and maintain entire embedded linux distros, not just toolchains |
| 18:48.12 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: see, that is what is wrong with i86 stuff, too few registers: AX, BX, CX, DX, SI, DI and that's it |
| 18:49.37 | *** join/#elinux T`2 (n=total@pdpc/supporter/student/T) |
| 18:49.54 | T0mW | Chocobo: maybe ignore the professor, get a $100 ARM LPC2000 dev board and gain some realworld experience? |
| 18:50.20 | Chocobo | lol. that won't fly :) |
| 18:50.37 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: thats why they invented the amd64 - twice the registers |
| 18:50.57 | CosmicPenguin | Just wait until the amd128 |
| 18:51.21 | T0mW | Chocobo: well you could always write a 68K emulator using an ARM as the P-Code interpreter, but then you'd have to slow the ARM down to match the throughput of the 68K... |
| 18:52.00 | kergoth | ~lart T0mW |
| 18:52.06 | T0mW | :P |
| 18:52.17 | T`2 | morning folks |
| 18:52.35 | T`2 | mmm... fish :) |
| 18:52.53 | T0mW | gives me violent cramps |
| 18:52.59 | Chocobo | the sad fact is that it needs to be 68k. |
| 18:53.14 | Chocobo | I am going to try crosstool again. :/ |
| 18:53.27 | T0mW | Chocobo: well, maybe look at what uClinux is using for cross gcc |
| 18:53.51 | T0mW | Chocobo: they use ColdFire and some m68k stuff to run uClinux, at least 5 years ago they did |
| 18:55.47 | T0mW | Chocobo: I guess that PIC is the one you want, COFF is older stuff. |
| 18:56.13 | *** join/#elinux chouimat (n=dieu@kde/developer/chouinard) |
| 18:56.17 | T0mW | dunno |
| 18:56.20 | Chocobo | PIC? not like Microchip... |
| 18:56.49 | T0mW | I guess it doesn't matter if you aren't running an O/S on it. PIC == Position Independant Code |
| 18:57.08 | T0mW | ~nuke Microchip |
| 18:57.10 | ibot | ACTION prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at Microchip ... B☢☢M! |
| 18:58.04 | Chocobo | lol. Why not? |
| 18:58.14 | Chocobo | It is good for small projects. |
| 18:58.17 | T0mW | I don't see what their point is |
| 18:59.00 | T0mW | They lost me when they came out with their first PIC series of chips way back when. None of them had an interrupt |
| 18:59.18 | Chocobo | I used one yesterday to send 6 A/D values back to the PC over bluetooth. That was pretty cool. |
| 18:59.38 | T0mW | Everything was software timing loops and they had dev software you had to use to accurately time program threads. |
| 19:00.25 | Chocobo | hmm, well sounds like things have improved :) |
| 19:00.30 | T0mW | So, I figured they were clueless and ignored them, even after they added an interrupt structure to the PIC16 series. But, the PIC16 wasn't much differnet that the 8051's |
| 19:01.18 | T0mW | Given that I could second source 8051 / 68HC11 parts from multiple vendors and had only a sole source for PICs... |
| 19:03.07 | CosmicPenguin | yo talk funny |
| 19:03.31 | T0mW | <sigh> |
| 19:04.23 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: I know, I talk in kilobytes |
| 19:04.43 | CosmicPenguin | Hey, thats unfair |
| 19:04.57 | CosmicPenguin | I'm not in Austin, am I? |
| 19:05.01 | file | I have magic Canadian powers |
| 19:05.56 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sorry, had a long phone call |
| 19:05.58 | T0mW | xyzzy |
| 19:06.00 | CosmicPenguin | file: whats up crazy Canuck? |
| 19:06.00 | T0mW | ? |
| 19:06.05 | T0mW | file is still here |
| 19:06.17 | file | sending out a standard, "thanks for the conference call, nice to talk to you" yada yada email |
| 19:06.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: anyway |
| 19:06.33 | file | and yes, I'm still here |
| 19:06.39 | file | I'm _always_ here |
| 19:06.48 | CosmicPenguin | Its true |
| 19:06.51 | T0mW | file: "... can I date your daughter"? |
| 19:07.04 | file | what are you talking about now old man |
| 19:07.11 | file | forget to take your pills? |
| 19:07.15 | T0mW | the email |
| 19:07.21 | file | ah :P |
| 19:07.30 | Chocobo | yeah, this is what crosstool gives me: |
| 19:07.32 | Chocobo | scripts/kconfig/mconf.c:91: error: static declaration of 'current_menu' follows non-static declaration |
| 19:07.32 | Chocobo | scripts/kconfig/lkc.h:63: error: previous declaration of 'current_menu' was heremake[1]: *** [scripts/kconfig/mconf.o] Error 1 |
| 19:07.33 | Chocobo | make: *** [oldconfig] Error 2 |
| 19:07.34 | file | they want me to fly out to their office in San Diego for one on one development training stuff... |
| 19:08.49 | T0mW | Chocobo: I played with crosstool, but decided not to use it. Thats when I looked for scripts/info to build a dev system from source |
| 19:09.26 | Chocobo | Yeah, I am looking at your scripts. The config flags look like the toughest part. |
| 19:09.35 | Chocobo | I am not sure what I would need for config flags. |
| 19:10.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: btw, the en28j60 driver is up and running |
| 19:10.44 | T0mW | Chocobo: for example: http://www.beyondlogic.org/uClinux/uClinux.htm |
| 19:10.46 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i used the ft2232 on the desktop for dev, all i did was replace the spi code for use with the s3c2410 |
| 19:11.00 | T0mW | Chocobo: scroll down to "Manually Building the Tool Chains - m68k-coff" |
| 19:11.45 | prpplague | T0mW: why not just use buildroot? i just did a test compile for the m68k this morning, only took 20 minutes or so |
| 19:12.15 | T0mW | Chocobo: that is an old old article, COFF has not been used since 2000/1999 on uClinux |
| 19:12.34 | T0mW | prpplague: there you go! |
| 19:13.06 | T0mW | Chocobo: buildroot makes more sense, you then have control over libs / header files / etc. |
| 19:13.36 | Chocobo | Ok, this may be a really stupid question... but I am not trying to put linux on the 68000... I just want to be able to compile C source for it. I am not sure what uClinux is, or if I even need it. |
| 19:13.47 | T0mW | Chocobo: don't have to worry if the correct path for stuff is used or if a system ix86 header or lib is in the way |
| 19:13.59 | T0mW | Chocobo: generally.. |
| 19:14.01 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: thats not really fair - OE has the same level of control |
| 19:14.10 | CosmicPenguin | There are reasons for picking buildroot, but thats not one of them |
| 19:14.53 | T0mW | Chocobo: gcc is used for stuff that involves linux, but it is not necessary for you to put linux on the target. Just that the tools used to build linux are far more stress tested that something that is not. |
| 19:15.26 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: last time I looked, OE was on bitkeeper and I couldn't get things figured out to play with it. |
| 19:16.09 | Chocobo | Ok, so I can build the cross compiler without worrying about linux headers, or uClinux, or anyhting like that... just binutils, gcc, and newlib. |
| 19:16.35 | T0mW | Chocobo: correct, you need: gcc, gas, ld, make, etc. just the tools |
| 19:16.42 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: well, whos fault is that? :) |
| 19:17.00 | T0mW | <shrug> raise the entry bar too high ... |
| 19:17.36 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 19:17.40 | Chocobo | well I will also need a library.... I guess technically I don't _need_ one. |
| 19:17.44 | CosmicPenguin | Well, you're definately not in the target audience |
| 19:18.37 | T0mW | Chocobo: there is uClibc, libc, and newlib as the most common standard C functions libs (strcpy, strlen, etc.) |
| 19:19.06 | T0mW | Chocobo: I chose newlib for the last project due to licensing issues |
| 19:19.14 | Chocobo | Happy with it? |
| 19:20.00 | Chocobo | I don't really know which one to pick... I just don't want to futz around with linux headers. Some of the websites I have found involve copying linux headers to build the library... |
| 19:20.10 | T0mW | pretty much, but, I chose it as LGPL doesn't fit when you have a system that only has 128K or 512K of code space. It is not like you can distribute object files for the proprietary modules... |
| 19:21.56 | T0mW | Chocobo: keep in mind, embedded development is a kaleidoscope of projects / runtime systems (eCos, Linux, WinCE, Proprietary), so you have a huge choice to sift through |
| 19:22.14 | Chocobo | hmm, I am somewhat new to this arena... hopefully I can catch up quickly... I should, I have a degree in this stuff :) |
| 19:22.52 | *** join/#elinux T`2 (n=total@pdpc/supporter/student/T) |
| 19:22.59 | Chocobo | Well I am even smaller than that... I want to write a program that I upload and make an LED blink for example. I don't need a system right now. |
| 19:23.33 | T0mW | Chocobo: one-stop-shopping is what you get from a software vendor. then all you have to do is narrow down what they support from their literature. When you build your own, you have to educate yourself and spend time tinkering until you gain some experience. |
| 19:24.21 | T0mW | Chocobo: yeah, that is what the ARM Thumb compiler is that I put together. It is a proprietary system, no eCos, Linux or such. |
| 19:26.21 | T0mW | Chocobo: for $20 you can pick up a surplus WebPal. That is an ARM710 processor, 32MB of RAM, about 1Meg of Flash. Something you can hack and then throw it away. M68K is nice for an academic study, but useless in the realworld where most stuff is headed onto ARM processors. |
| 19:28.18 | Chocobo | Oh man, buildtool is crazy! |
| 19:28.33 | Chocobo | WebPal? sounds interesting. |
| 19:29.17 | file | it's your pal on the web |
| 19:29.21 | T0mW | Chocobo: there was a listing on Ebay not long ago for ARM dev boards (kits) for sale at $30 per. |
| 19:30.16 | T0mW | Chocobo: LCD controller few Meg of Flash (8M) a bunch of RAM(32M), PCMCIA slots, etc. for $30 |
| 19:31.11 | CosmicPenguin | Oops, just lost about an hour of work |
| 19:31.25 | Chocobo | Man, buildroot may be too much... |
| 19:38.44 | T0mW | Chocobo: if it were easy, anyone could do it. If it were fun, everyone would want to do it. But, since this is neither easy nor fun, we get paid to do it. |
| 19:39.51 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: you get paid? |
| 19:40.19 | T0mW | no sh!t, this is why I tell people I do this stuff: for the money |
| 19:40.43 | CosmicPenguin | I do it for the fame and women |
| 19:41.23 | T0mW | LOL |
| 19:41.30 | T0mW | :P |
| 19:41.33 | T0mW | yeah?! |
| 19:41.49 | CosmicPenguin | Haven't gotten either yet, but I'm still hoping |
| 19:41.55 | T0mW | ah |
| 19:41.57 | T0mW | :/ |
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| 19:47.06 | *** mode/#elinux [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
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| 19:49.33 | prpplague | doh |
| 19:50.10 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: any idea why my driver all of a sudden isn't being reported as ethernet when doing an ifconfig? |
| 19:51.06 | T0mW | major / minor numbers not for ethernet? |
| 19:51.25 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe, uh no |
| 19:51.41 | CosmicPenguin | hmmm... |
| 19:51.43 | T0mW | is the dev in the /dev? and what numbers? |
| 19:51.50 | CosmicPenguin | is the interface not being registered? |
| 19:52.08 | T0mW | prpplague: what he said |
| 19:52.11 | CosmicPenguin | Or the interface registration is dying |
| 19:52.28 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, i'm able to assign it an ip and ping the ip |
| 19:52.36 | CosmicPenguin | Hmmm.... |
| 19:53.02 | CosmicPenguin | does it show up with 'ifconfig -a' ? |
| 19:53.28 | CosmicPenguin | and are you sure you're actually pinging it, and not a red herring? |
| 19:53.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea shows up with ifconfig -a, just marks it as |
| 19:53.40 | CosmicPenguin | Ahh - so thats the answer |
| 19:53.47 | CosmicPenguin | its not being marked as up |
| 19:54.05 | prpplague | Link encap:AMPR NET/ROM |
| 19:54.17 | CosmicPenguin | ohh, ok |
| 19:54.21 | CosmicPenguin | your bug reports are confusing me |
| 19:54.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 19:54.30 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: sorry |
| 19:54.41 | CosmicPenguin | You are sad its not being reported as a Ethernet device, rather some freaky ass AMPR thingy? |
| 19:55.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe yea |
| 19:56.02 | T0mW | heh |
| 19:56.14 | T0mW | AMPR == AMatuer Packet Radio |
| 19:56.33 | T0mW | ke3dp.amper.org |
| 19:56.55 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm guessing its getting registered before the net_device is configured |
| 19:57.05 | CosmicPenguin | no, that doesn't make sense |
| 19:58.41 | CosmicPenguin | How are you allocating the driver structure? |
| 19:59.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i'm basically using the isa-skeleton.c just with no isa init |
| 20:02.35 | CosmicPenguin | strange |
| 20:02.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: nm, freakin typo in the probe function |
| 20:02.42 | CosmicPenguin | Oh? |
| 20:02.58 | CosmicPenguin | I still don't understand - alloc_etherdev should have set up the structure correctly for you |
| 20:03.03 | CosmicPenguin | unless you were overriding it somehow? |
| 20:03.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i've hacked out the isa init, so i had a section added for doing a probe of the spi |
| 20:03.36 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: incorrect return value |
| 20:04.07 | CosmicPenguin | oh, well - as long as it works |
| 20:05.34 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: basically it was returning before the ether_setup() was called |
| 20:06.26 | CosmicPenguin | ohhhhh |
| 20:06.28 | CosmicPenguin | ok, now I'm there |
| 20:09.36 | CosmicPenguin | in 2.6, ether_setup and alloc_etherdev happen together at the same time |
| 20:10.32 | prpplague | ahh |
| 20:13.35 | prpplague | lovely |
| 20:14.24 | T0mW | prpplague: works? |
| 20:18.40 | prpplague | T0mW: yep |
| 20:18.45 | prpplague | T0mW: still tweaking |
| 20:18.49 | T0mW | :) |
| 20:18.53 | prpplague | T0mW: this is mainly a test run |
| 20:19.05 | prpplague | T0mW: after i have the basics up, i'll rewrite it |
| 20:19.18 | prpplague | T0mW: looks like i'll probably do the rewrite monday or tuesday |
| 20:19.25 | T0mW | prpplague: at least take the printk's out |
| 20:19.37 | prpplague | T0mW: first time doing a network driver from scratch |
| 20:19.44 | prpplague | T0mW: done plenty of char and block |
| 20:20.16 | T0mW | I guess they are not much different, just a different chip an some module funcs |
| 20:20.39 | CosmicPenguin | Really, the difference is interfacing with another subsystem instead of doing the read(), write() and ioctl() yourself |
| 20:20.39 | prpplague | T0mW: well fairly different as they don't fit into the "everything is a file" theme |
| 20:20.46 | T0mW | hhe |
| 20:20.48 | T0mW | heh |
| 20:21.46 | prpplague | T0mW: http://www.edtp.com/framethrower.htm |
| 20:22.16 | T0mW | prpplague: ya, saw that the other day |
| 20:22.20 | prpplague | T0mW: oh |
| 20:22.29 | prpplague | T0mW: driver is shapping up |
| 20:23.24 | T0mW | prpplague: I'm still working at finishing up this dual-ARM7TDMI stuff. Meeting Feb 20th on new project |
| 20:23.33 | prpplague | T0mW: actually pretty proud of myself that its only taken a week to get this working |
| 20:23.39 | T0mW | :D |
| 20:24.12 | prpplague | T0mW: of course it would have only take cosmo just 1/2 a day |
| 20:24.33 | T0mW | prpplague: plus a week of procrastination |
| 20:25.01 | T0mW | prpplague: if you do things too quickly, they'll always expect it of you. |
| 20:25.23 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, i've created that monster more than once |
| 20:25.53 | T0mW | prpplague: I got sucked into that "hey, look how good I am" thing.. Never got any real money out of it (pay raises). |
| 20:26.27 | prpplague | T0mW: yea, back when i was with abcsinc, they handed me a price checker kiosk based on a pxa255 |
| 20:27.01 | prpplague | T0mW: got a bootloader running, kernel booting, ramdisk, x windows, and a custom app running in 10 working days |
| 20:27.16 | prpplague | T0mW: thought i'd done a bang up job |
| 20:27.36 | T0mW | prpplague: meanwhile you have no life but work |
| 20:27.38 | prpplague | T0mW: like a week afterwards i got called into the boss office and was grilled on why it took so long |
| 20:27.59 | prpplague | T0mW: i had to write a report detailing the whole project |
| 20:28.03 | kergoth | .. thats bs |
| 20:28.05 | T0mW | ow |
| 20:28.23 | T0mW | prpplague: ask the boss to do it next time |
| 20:30.18 | prpplague | it wasn't a complete port per se, i mean most of the code already existed, but damm give me a break |
| 20:30.18 | T0mW | prpplague: or to come help you with it, becuase you obviously need some training on how to get this work done much faster |
| 20:30.18 | prpplague | kergoth: that was one of the main reasons i left abcsinc was because of that crappy attitude from management |
| 20:30.20 | T0mW | prpplague: that and the 3% raises? |
| 20:30.42 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: you pokin' me? |
| 20:30.52 | CosmicPenguin | You know, some of us have real jobs over here... :) |
| 20:31.00 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: <prpplague> T0mW: of course it would have only take cosmo just 1/2 a day |
| 20:31.14 | T0mW | some of us even work at those jobs |
| 20:31.36 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: I appreciate your praise |
| 20:31.43 | CosmicPenguin | unwarrented praise, but praise none the ness |
| 20:31.45 | CosmicPenguin | less even |
| 20:31.48 | T0mW | LOL |
| 20:35.25 | CosmicPenguin | stupid web browser |
| 20:40.09 | *** mode/#elinux [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
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| 21:10.25 | T0mW | CosmicPenguin: I know that you haven't yet gotten any of the fame, but, have they given you any of the women yet? |
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| 22:28.55 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: once we actually find some, I'll let you know |
| 22:31.36 | CosmicPenguin | Here's a hint for you prospective kernel developers |
| 22:32.31 | CosmicPenguin | When you have a driver for a class of devices, such as say au1000, au1500, au1550, and au1200, don't name the file au1xxx, and for the love of God, don't post a message to the lkml with the subject AU1XXX |
| 22:46.49 | MonMotha | hey, I've got a cramfs chucked in the middle of a binary wasteland. Is there a good way to determine where it ends? |
| 22:48.58 | Crofton | CosmicPenguin, why? |
| 22:53.44 | CosmicPenguin | Crofton: err... XXX? :) |
| 22:54.08 | CosmicPenguin | MonMotha: if you know where it starts, you can read the header |
| 22:55.21 | MonMotha | yes, there is a size in the header. Where does "size" begin counting from? |
| 22:55.24 | Crofton | trips everyone p0rn filters |
| 22:56.55 | MonMotha | I'm having trouble getting to the cramfs docs |
| 22:57.03 | CosmicPenguin | Isn't there a doc in the kernel? |
| 22:57.14 | CosmicPenguin | I thought there was - I might be wrong |
| 22:57.40 | MonMotha | I have the header files, but it just identifies the field as "size" with no qualifier (including header, starting from end of header, from this point, etc.) |
| 22:58.48 | CosmicPenguin | ugh |
| 23:25.55 | kergoth | meh |
| 23:37.45 | *** join/#elinux joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@adsl-65-65-38-77.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 23:38.38 | MonMotha | gah, why did Intel have to come up with the idea of little endian encoding? |
| 23:59.20 | CosmicPenguin | Was that the problem? |
| 23:59.51 | MonMotha | I still haven't figured it out, just that byte swapping things in your head often leads to confusion, since humans are big endian :) |