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| 04:08.58 | technomike | What is Embedded Linux? Is it a linux distro on a chip that's built into a computer? |
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| 10:21.15 | ruant | anyone know when i run make on buildroot that it chroot's the make or something..? |
| 12:17.25 | T0mW | morning world |
| 12:17.46 | T0mW | ZipIt should arrive today! |
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| 13:12.46 | chouimat | morning |
| 13:13.15 | prpplague | chouimat: hey |
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| 13:37.59 | chouimat | hi prpplague |
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| 13:44.49 | prpplague | well if anyone is interested |
| 13:45.23 | prpplague | it has been confirmed that the PixterMultimedia has a LH79524 cpu, ARM720T |
| 13:53.24 | prpplague | http://www.elinux.org/wiki/PixterMultimedia |
| 13:56.42 | Spetznaz | http://www.toc2rta.com/index.php/Main_Page ("Linux Cluster on MsnTV 2") |
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| 15:09.38 | CosmicPenguin | Morning |
| 15:09.43 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: lo |
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| 15:17.38 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe, i have ol' fishhead all pissed because i banned from #edev |
| 15:17.44 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 15:17.45 | CosmicPenguin | good for you |
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| 15:38.12 | ruant | how can i test the root system i make with buildroot? |
| 15:38.36 | prpplague | ruant: what are you testing for? i mean what are you wanting to verify? |
| 15:38.44 | ruant | that it works |
| 15:38.45 | ruant | :P |
| 15:39.34 | prpplague | ruant: uh boot it |
| 15:41.58 | ruant | can i just define the root system in vmware or something? and choose the file i made |
| 15:42.02 | ruant | *tries* |
| 15:42.47 | prpplague | ruant: well, if you have everything setup properly, however i'm not a giant fan of emulation when doing testing |
| 15:43.10 | prpplague | ruant: emulation is mainly a development tool imho when you don't have actual hardware |
| 15:43.43 | ruant | ok |
| 15:44.08 | CosmicPenguin | Well, thats not exactly accurate |
| 15:44.22 | ruant | thats ok, i need to put in more programs in it before it's done anyway :P |
| 15:44.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i said it was my opinion, hehe |
| 15:44.28 | CosmicPenguin | simulation can also offer certain tools that are more difficult on real hardware |
| 15:44.44 | CosmicPenguin | debuggers, etc. |
| 15:45.02 | CosmicPenguin | I do a lot of work on simulators, even when I have the real hardware sitting on my desk |
| 15:45.09 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but you have to be able to assume that the emulation is working very close to the actual way the hardware is |
| 15:45.40 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: thats true - but that should be the scope of the simulation writer to verify that |
| 15:46.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: agreed, but what happens when you have a custom design |
| 15:46.23 | CosmicPenguin | Well, it can't be that custom if you're using off the shell simulators, can it? |
| 15:46.23 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: like what we do, you can't just get a simulator off the shelf |
| 15:46.39 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: well we have a kind of generic one, that we use |
| 15:46.53 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: but it doesn't have any of the specific hardware |
| 15:47.03 | CosmicPenguin | But for an example, we write our own simulators, and we verify the models against the real RTL |
| 15:47.04 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: its mainly used for enduser app testing |
| 15:47.24 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: right, in that cause, you have a powerful tool at your disposal |
| 16:08.39 | prpplague | kergoth: i totally understand how you felt about getting burned out on kernel space stuff |
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| 16:33.39 | CosmicPenguin | That was wierd |
| 16:33.48 | file | reallllllllly? |
| 16:34.08 | CosmicPenguin | xchat just up and died |
| 16:34.13 | CosmicPenguin | and it wasn't an OOM either |
| 16:34.18 | file | ah |
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| 17:49.09 | chouimat | ROFL http://random-m.com/images/1443753592_garfield1.PNG |
| 17:52.10 | prpplague | chouimat: hehehe |
| 17:52.41 | chouimat | prpplague: it was to expect one day |
| 18:07.51 | T0mW | geez! |
| 18:08.10 | CosmicPenguin | Heh - I've seen that before |
| 18:08.15 | CosmicPenguin | my favorite is the garfield randomizer |
| 18:08.25 | CosmicPenguin | its funny because garfield sucks |
| 18:09.18 | prpplague | my favorite is the jack s#$% family tree page |
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| 18:17.36 | prpplague | Crofton: hey hey |
| 18:17.40 | prpplague | Crofton: been deported yet? |
| 18:18.40 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 18:18.44 | Crofton | heh |
| 18:18.46 | Crofton | not yet |
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| 18:58.25 | T0mW | WAH! |
| 18:58.28 | T0mW | I bricked my ZipIt! <sob> |
| 19:01.41 | CosmicPenguin | <nelson> ha-ha</nelson> |
| 19:02.25 | prpplague | T0mW: doh |
| 19:03.11 | prpplague | T0mW: time to send forth one of those fun loving four letter words |
| 19:03.16 | T0mW | prpplague: all I was doing was setting up stock. Had the netgear wifi hub setup etc. The thing kept coming up with an update thing and kept failing the update. |
| 19:03.32 | prpplague | doh |
| 19:03.39 | MonMotha | prpplague: that word being JTAG I assume? |
| 19:03.40 | T0mW | then it stopped working, just shows a funny face on the screen and sits there |
| 19:03.55 | prpplague | MonMotha: hehe yea |
| 19:04.05 | T0mW | IIRC, you can mod it for an RS232 connection, then dump linux into it. |
| 19:04.12 | prpplague | T0mW: oh btw, the pixter-mm has a LH79524 processor |
| 19:04.28 | T0mW | I didn't expect to do that so soon. I hoped to play with it as a stock unit a little while. |
| 19:04.44 | T0mW | prpplague: yeah, saw that. QFP or BGA? |
| 19:05.11 | prpplague | T0mW: don't know yet |
| 19:05.31 | prpplague | T0mW: mine hasn't arrived |
| 19:05.39 | prpplague | T0mW: one of the guys in #edev purchased one |
| 19:06.13 | T0mW | prpplague: got your set of small screwdrivers sharpened up? |
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| 19:06.55 | prpplague | T0mW: yep |
| 19:07.19 | prpplague | brb |
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| 19:27.17 | prpplague | T0mW: bga package |
| 19:27.27 | T0mW | :( |
| 19:27.41 | prpplague | T0mW: why? |
| 19:27.43 | T0mW | might be much harder to hack |
| 19:29.51 | T0mW | !@#$!@4 netgear pos |
| 19:30.27 | prpplague | T0mW: why would it be harder? other than not as easy to identify the pins |
| 19:30.39 | prpplague | T0mW: you just use a heat guy and remove the parts |
| 19:30.44 | prpplague | gun |
| 19:30.58 | T0mW | Well, if they don't connect up one pin you need, how you going to reach it? |
| 19:31.32 | prpplague | T0mW: ahh yea, well, i generally only use whats there anyway |
| 19:37.14 | T0mW | prpplague: not me, I have a microscope! |
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| 19:38.29 | prpplague | T0mW: thats no fun |
| 19:39.02 | T0mW | prpplague: I'd rather get my excitment elsewhere |
| 19:41.02 | prpplague | T0mW: hehe |
| 19:42.05 | prpplague | T0mW: the definition of synthesizable when referenced to a processor means that it has features that are configurable such as having FPGA cells, correct? |
| 19:43.55 | T0mW | prpplague: dunno |
| 19:44.13 | prpplague | hmm |
| 19:46.52 | MonMotha | prpplague: in most contexts, it means that there exists some sort of HDL code that can be synthesized onto an FPGA or similar hardware |
| 19:47.04 | *** join/#elinux _frank (n=user@84.92.70.37) |
| 19:47.06 | MonMotha | it is possible to write HDL that won't synthesize (though it can be simulated) |
| 19:47.36 | MonMotha | are you on opencores? |
| 19:47.37 | prpplague | MonMotha: hmm, sorry but that didn't clear things up, hehe |
| 19:48.18 | MonMotha | where are you seeing this? |
| 19:49.10 | prpplague | MonMotha: in several places but mainly in reference to the difference between arm7tdmi and arm7tdmi-s |
| 19:50.03 | MonMotha | one may be a straight hardware VLSI implementation, done at the transistor level while the other may be one written in HDL (Verilog or VHDL) and designed to be run through HDL synthesis tools and integrated into ASICs that way |
| 19:51.44 | prpplague | MonMotha: so basically when refering to an arm7tdmi-s we are taking about a soft implementation of the arm7tdmi ? |
| 19:52.04 | prpplague | MonMotha: kinda like a giant fpga? |
| 19:52.22 | MonMotha | well, designed to be put on an FPGA and later an ASIC |
| 19:52.54 | MonMotha | most ASICs these days seem to be designed in HDL, verified in simulation and on a large FGPA (like a Xilinx Virtex series) and then mapped onto an ASIC and manufacturered in quantity |
| 19:53.10 | MonMotha | that design process isn't very compatible with traditional hard VLSI design |
| 19:53.13 | prpplague | MonMotha: i'm mainly refering to the arm references |
| 19:53.23 | prpplague | MonMotha: gotcha |
| 19:53.25 | MonMotha | it's kinda hard for me to tell what they're talking about in that case |
| 19:53.40 | prpplague | MonMotha: i suspect that its the same |
| 19:53.54 | MonMotha | I should run software identically |
| 19:53.59 | MonMotha | that is, it should be behaviorally the same |
| 19:54.05 | prpplague | MonMotha: right |
| 19:54.33 | prpplague | MonMotha: only difference is that the processor was implemented in hardware verses in gates |
| 19:55.22 | prpplague | MonMotha: now i would see the advantage of having a synthesizable core would be you could tweak some of the functions based on what you need |
| 19:55.38 | prpplague | MonMotha: i.e. nintendo adding some frame buffer and such commands |
| 19:56.04 | *** join/#elinux chewy (n=dieu@r2351064.cidc.net) |
| 19:56.18 | MonMotha | well, traditional VLSI design has a designer (that being a human or very smart program) placing transistors and wires on a piece of silicon. HDL based design has somebody describing a part behaviorally and then letting software come up with a hardware implenentation and mapping it onto a restricted type of digital network such as a PLD or FPGA |
| 19:56.56 | MonMotha | the latter is much quicker and more configurable/easier to tweak and integrate, while the former can result in better power consumption, lower silicon area, and better speed |
| 19:57.16 | prpplague | MonMotha: right, making sense |
| 19:58.04 | MonMotha | it is also conceivable that, due to bugs, the two parts may not behave entirely identially |
| 19:59.10 | prpplague | MonMotha: gotcha, clear now |
| 20:04.34 | chouimat | prpplague: http://friendsofmaddox.com/index.php/Tragic_domain_names |
| 20:05.17 | prpplague | file: hey who do you work for again? |
| 20:07.13 | MonMotha | chouimat: almost as good as the story my friend in the Army told a couple nights ago at a party. Apparently he knows this gal in the Navy. Her last name is "Guzzler". Upon promotion to the rank of "Seaman" she just walked into her S.O.'s office and pointed at the rank and name, then was promoted on the spot. |
| 20:08.02 | prpplague | hehe |
| 20:25.53 | CosmicPenguin | thats the funniest thing I've heard in a while |
| 20:26.00 | CosmicPenguin | and I've been following the Cheney shooting thing |
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| 20:43.29 | T0mW | GPSFan: ping |
| 20:43.57 | GPSFan | T0mW: pong.. |
| 20:44.28 | T0mW | GPSFan: if you have a bricked ZipIp (bootup stalls), would the RS232 interface let you re-flash it? |
| 20:45.22 | T0mW | GPSFan: the thing now only comes up with smiley screen + battery level indicator, but won't go any further |
| 20:45.26 | GPSFan | T0mW: yes, the 7312 has a rom bootloader, that lets you dl code into the ram. it will save your but if you brik it. |
| 20:45.37 | T0mW | good |
| 20:45.53 | T0mW | GPSFan: I'm about to do surgery on the case to add a connector |
| 20:45.56 | GPSFan | get out your smt tools and make the 5 wire mod. |
| 20:46.02 | T0mW | k |
| 20:46.25 | T0mW | GPSFan: actually, what I'm going to do is put a USB connector in the side of the case |
| 20:46.27 | GPSFan | I can't count the times I dl'd new code into it |
| 20:46.47 | GPSFan | that's 4 signals |
| 20:46.48 | T0mW | that's four wires: txd, rxd, gnd, dbg |
| 20:47.15 | T0mW | GPSFan: http://aibohack.com/zipit/serial.htm |
| 20:47.16 | file | prpplague: http://www.asterlink.com/ |
| 20:47.38 | T0mW | GPSFan: I was looking at that mod, I assumed that only three wires come out |
| 20:47.53 | T0mW | GPSFan: plus you need to gnd the dbg pin |
| 20:48.12 | prpplague | file: thanks sending a customer your way |
| 20:48.20 | file | k |
| 20:48.27 | GPSFan | yeah, that's the 5 wire mod, if you keep the 2 rxd's seperate. |
| 20:48.55 | T0mW | GPSFan: ? the diagram says to short the two RXDs together inside the case? |
| 20:49.41 | T0mW | GPSFan: e.g. feed the serial stream from the PC onto both serial ports of the ZipIt internally |
| 20:50.04 | GPSFan | I do it outside, but never had a reason to seperate them. the rxd with no txd is where the bootrom data goes in. |
| 20:50.17 | T0mW | ah |
| 20:50.23 | T0mW | GPSFan: ok, thanks ken |
| 20:51.20 | T0mW | GPSFan: I have a spool of 30ga solid core |
| 20:52.11 | GPSFan | the original FCC doc's show 2 serial connectors inside. when they went to production they removed the connectors and trraces. the rxd lines needed to be pulled up (or down) and the PCB layout guy was lazy and only ripped up the trace to the uart2 txd line to the closest via. leaving us the opening we needed. |
| 20:52.19 | prpplague | later folks |
| 20:53.41 | GPSFan | T0mW: http://www.paonia.com/~kenm/Pix/?display=images/Zipit/Serial/serial_mods.jpg&width=800&height=600 |
| 20:53.48 | *** join/#elinux chouimat (n=dieu@kde/developer/chouinard) |
| 20:54.02 | T0mW | GPSFan: maybe we should talk to the pcb guy and get him leave a few more choice vias on rev B of the board? heh |
| 20:55.59 | GPSFan | they could have a cool box if they went to a jucebox-like color dispplay, mmc./sd slot, bi-directional audio, and 2 real serial ports. |
| 20:57.05 | GPSFan | they could sell it for 149.95 and make a forutne form hackers alone. |
| 20:57.15 | T0mW | GPSFan: cool retail box. but, we add the missing stuff for them. |
| 20:57.24 | T0mW | GPSFan: oh sure! |
| 20:57.49 | T0mW | GPSFan: I won't buy a juice-box 'cause it has no keyboard. |
| 20:58.49 | GPSFan | T0mW: I got one when they were $12. got 3 mmc kits at $12each too, they were more useful than the jb. |
| 20:59.52 | T0mW | GPSFan: in that case it was worth it. The ZipIt I didn't mind paying $100, not when it has 16M dram and I can add an SD drive to it. |
| 21:00.52 | T0mW | GPSFan: I will say this, I intend this plastic rework to be the best I've ever done. I want this little sucker to look nice! |
| 21:01.57 | GPSFan | T0mW: check out http://va3uxb.dynip.com/ she did a real nice job on the mmc slot. |
| 21:04.09 | GPSFan | I've got a cool idea for the mmc slot that might even work out better. Start with a miniSD card & adapter. Use the adapter for the socket and solder to where the standard mmc card pins are. it would be thinner, and meybe fit on top of the radio without too much plastic hacking. |
| 21:05.47 | T0mW | GPSFan: essentially what I want to do, va3uxb thingy. Have a usb connect near the Agere transmitter. Then have the MMC card peek out the rear panel. |
| 21:09.28 | T0mW | GPSFan: before you go, is there someplace I can pickup a binary image to try flashing? |
| 21:10.44 | GPSFan | T0mW: sure the Yahoo group files has my OpenZipit kernel & userland, as well as ZipitPets Burn3, image. |
| 21:11.07 | T0mW | ok |
| 21:13.19 | GPSFan | T0mW: Zipitpet's programs work under dos. there may be a linux port by now. but I never saw the need to run them under linux. prpplague might disagree. they are somewhat simple, but are effective. |
| 21:14.29 | T0mW | GPSFan: ah, you know Dave, he gets too serious sometimes. |
| 21:15.23 | GPSFan | ;>) |
| 21:56.39 | *** join/#elinux Kjetil (i=kjetil@81.166.7.161) |
| 21:57.12 | Kjetil | Does someone know if the ICA citrix client runs on uclibc ? |
| 21:58.16 | CosmicPenguin | I'm prtty sure it doesn't |
| 21:58.19 | CosmicPenguin | pretty even |
| 21:59.30 | Kjetil | damn |
| 21:59.36 | Kjetil | thanks anyhow |
| 21:59.57 | CosmicPenguin | These are the perils of a binary application |
| 22:00.59 | Kjetil | Fun fact : The english ICA client requiers openmotif, the german one the other hand does not |
| 22:59.21 | T0mW | GPSFan: could mini-SD use the same socket as std SD? |
| 23:00.26 | T0mW | the best I could do on the SD card was to have it poke out the rear panel by 0.230" |
| 23:02.50 | GPSFan | T0mW: these often come with the miniSD cards http://www.sandisk.com/Products/Item(1197)-SDSDMA-000-SanDisk_miniSD_Adapter.aspx |
| 23:03.19 | GPSFan | they make the whole thing the sizw of a standard mmc/sd card. |
| 23:04.17 | GPSFan | my standard mmc/sd card sticks out the back about .35" |
| 23:04.45 | T0mW | well, less than a quarter inch is ok. I should have studied it more as I could have also had the socket go partway into the battery box. |
| 23:05.13 | T0mW | just wish it were flush |
| 23:05.20 | T0mW | next time, heh |
| 23:05.37 | GPSFan | .25" is great. mine was really 1'st gen before va3uxb got working on it. |
| 23:06.29 | T0mW | the USB connector is flush with the left side |
| 23:06.41 | T0mW | it is back behind the RF box |
| 23:07.55 | T0mW | GPSFan: did you look at the EL backlight mods? |
| 23:09.37 | *** mode/#elinux [+v file[laptop]] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.40 | GPSFan | T0mW: looked at it, where do you put the inverter? I did a mod to one of mine that replaced the lcd reflector with a holographic mirror. |
| 23:10.18 | GPSFan | it came out ok, hard to do, and very nearly busted my lcd. |
| 23:10.47 | T0mW | I may have fsck'ed the LCD conn. didn't realize what type it was |
| 23:11.28 | GPSFan | small and fragile.. |
| 23:11.45 | T0mW | well, I do have SMT rework equipment. :/ |
| 23:13.32 | T0mW | World's most important invention just has to be Krazy Glue! |
| 23:13.52 | T0mW | Duct Tape is a close second |
| 23:14.08 | GPSFan | ah, ductape forever... |
| 23:14.30 | T0mW | yeah, but it is tough to duct tape chips to a board... |
| 23:15.23 | GPSFan | sure, you use the SMT equivalent, Mylar or Kynar tape. |
| 23:22.37 | T0mW | hmmm, I have 0.600 X 0.750 area to put the RS232 thingy. I have an smt board that I can cut out, populate, then double-sided tape to the ZipIt PCB. works |
| 23:33.01 | *** join/#elinux joe_bleau (n=joe_blea@ppp-69-154-118-239.dsl.fyvlar.swbell.net) |
| 23:47.55 | *** join/#elinux kc5 (n=kcheung@HSE-Montreal-ppp122338.qc.sympatico.ca) |
| 23:53.21 | *** join/#elinux fishhead (i=rs485@unaffiliated/fishhead) |
| 23:53.27 | fishhead | have fun without me folks |
| 23:53.42 | fishhead | #hackaday on efnet is wau better than this shithole network will ever be |
| 23:53.47 | fishhead | not a bunch of anal retenative basterds |
| 23:54.10 | fishhead | can't say it's been fun cause it hasn't |
| 23:54.14 | *** part/#elinux fishhead (i=rs485@unaffiliated/fishhead) |
| 23:56.22 | CosmicPenguin | oh, what ever shall we do? |
| 23:57.09 | file[laptop] | live in peace. |
