| 00:09.11 | *** join/#elinux thraxisp (n=thraxisp@ottawa-hs-209-217-110-85.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 00:36.53 | *** join/#elinux T`2 (n=total@pdpc/supporter/student/T) |
| 00:49.47 | *** join/#elinux T`2 (n=total@pdpc/supporter/student/T) |
| 01:34.08 | *** join/#elinux sjhill (n=sjhill@eth13.com-link.com) |
| 01:46.08 | *** join/#elinux basit (n=abasit@linuxpakistan/basit) |
| 01:46.25 | basit | can i find shill here? |
| 01:46.37 | basit | I have a very quick question for NPTL support in uClibc ? |
| 01:59.30 | sjhill | basit: yes |
| 02:00.12 | basit | sjhill, i was just not sure whether the port you have done for NPTL to uclibc will work for powerpc or not |
| 02:00.22 | basit | sjhill, i guess not. |
| 02:01.49 | sjhill | mips is the only one in existence |
| 02:01.58 | sjhill | i'm looking for funding to do the other architectures |
| 02:02.08 | basit | sjhill, I see. |
| 02:02.27 | basit | sjhill, is there any tutorial or design document that you have for others who may wish to port it to other architectures ? |
| 02:02.34 | sjhill | no |
| 02:02.57 | basit | I see, alright. |
| 02:03.07 | basit | thnx |
| 02:03.54 | sjhill | np |
| 03:10.22 | *** join/#elinux russ_ (i=foobar@ip70-190-223-46.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:11.09 | *** mode/#elinux [+o Russ] by ChanServ |
| 03:52.29 | *** join/#elinux sjhill (n=sjhill@eth13.com-link.com) |
| 04:33.30 | *** join/#elinux sjhill (n=sjhill@eth13.com-link.com) |
| 04:33.53 | *** join/#elinux FireEgl (i=Atlantic@Atlantica.Tcldrop.US) |
| 05:00.56 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (n=dave@72.22.137.128) |
| 06:35.00 | *** join/#elinux pigeon (n=pigeon@adsl-60-232.swiftdsl.com.au) |
| 07:00.47 | *** join/#elinux eumel (n=chatzill@p548207CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:01.20 | *** part/#elinux eumel (n=chatzill@p548207CD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:28.27 | *** join/#elinux ignatoff (n=ignatov@c1-41-2.rrba.isadsl.co.za) |
| 07:42.22 | *** join/#elinux cdm (n=cdm@adsl-69-236-98-103.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 07:48.29 | cdm | evening |
| 07:49.24 | ignatoff | cdm: gee.. evening |
| 07:49.41 | ignatoff | i must be far away from you |
| 07:58.29 | *** join/#elinux vrm (n=vrm@44.23.98-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 08:05.04 | *** join/#elinux mhfan (n=mhfan@60.166.50.136) |
| 08:31.51 | *** join/#elinux ade|desk (n=ADAVEY@194.200.143.249) |
| 09:28.07 | *** join/#elinux noclouds (n=mhfan@60.166.50.136) |
| 11:37.47 | *** join/#elinux Determinist (i=Determin@unaffiliated/determinist) |
| 12:28.30 | *** join/#elinux prpplague (n=billybob@72.22.129.7) |
| 12:32.52 | *** join/#elinux GPSFan (n=Ken@12.10.255.248) |
| 12:41.23 | chouimat | morning |
| 12:54.05 | *** join/#elinux tuxmaniac (n=aanjhan@60.254.67.17) |
| 13:08.50 | *** join/#elinux sjhill (n=sjhill@eth13.com-link.com) |
| 13:23.52 | *** join/#elinux Gerrath (i=Gerrath@unaffiliated/gerrath) |
| 13:24.39 | *** join/#elinux Crofton (n=balister@hc6521ded.dhcp.vt.edu) |
| 13:26.47 | *** join/#elinux thraxisp (n=thraxisp@ottawa-hs-209-217-110-85.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 13:35.27 | *** join/#elinux HJBIII (n=HJBIII__@c1-41-2.rrba.isadsl.co.za) |
| 13:41.54 | *** join/#elinux T`2 (n=total@pdpc/supporter/student/T) |
| 13:47.03 | *** join/#elinux cbrake (i=user103@216.144.26.242) |
| 13:57.59 | *** join/#elinux donan (n=Loutre@mto30-1-82-242-53-8.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:22.26 | *** join/#elinux T0mW (n=Tom@24.152.249.149.res-cmts.sth.ptd.net) |
| 14:31.51 | *** join/#elinux bbart (n=bbart@p54BDD53B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:42.33 | *** join/#elinux thraxisp (n=thraxisp@ottgate.precidia.com) |
| 14:43.55 | *** join/#elinux tux1800 (n=eric@c66.110.147-33.clta.globetrotter.net) |
| 15:09.25 | Crofton | CosmicPenguin, someone is pointing me at this board http://www.kontron.com/ETXexpress/pdproductdetail.cfm?keyProduct=40806 |
| 15:09.36 | Crofton | They are using it in their radio design |
| 15:11.01 | T0mW | yeah, and the power supply is probably bigger than the board |
| 15:11.01 | CosmicPenguin | T0mW: we don't need to hear from you |
| 15:11.01 | T0mW | :P |
| 15:11.46 | milliwatt | CosmicPenguin: better? |
| 15:12.03 | CosmicPenguin | Hey, we're milliwatt too |
| 15:12.08 | CosmicPenguin | 1000 milliwatt |
| 15:12.34 | CosmicPenguin | Crofton: heh - yeah, thats the new thing for telecom |
| 15:12.50 | CosmicPenguin | Crofton: you can get "embedded" opterons for the same application |
| 15:12.57 | Crofton | heh |
| 15:13.12 | Crofton | you need to send me a geode board :) |
| 15:13.24 | CosmicPenguin | Crofton: yes I do |
| 15:13.42 | Crofton | :) |
| 15:14.23 | Crofton | Thepower supply is bigger than the intel board |
| 15:14.36 | Crofton | but it is the same size as another board in their radio |
| 15:14.41 | Crofton | :) |
| 15:15.48 | milliwatt | heh, the radio is more power conservative than the controller. |
| 15:16.01 | milliwatt | prpplague: don't do it Dave! |
| 15:16.36 | prpplague | milliwatt: hehe, /bin/rm -rf linux-2.4.? |
| 15:16.46 | prpplague | milliwatt: hehe, /bin/rm -rf linux-2.4.1? |
| 15:16.54 | prpplague | lots more room now |
| 15:16.55 | milliwatt | yeah, hard drives are cheap now, get a bigger one |
| 15:17.13 | milliwatt | windows people do that all the time, right? |
| 15:17.15 | prpplague | no need to keep linux-2.4.9 around |
| 15:18.08 | prpplague | crap, my sinus headache is coming back |
| 15:18.43 | milliwatt | I've gotten to the point now that two of my dev systems are running software RAID1 on the big drives. Those 100+ gig drives just don't last. |
| 15:20.36 | prpplague | hehe cpu load is a 6.5 |
| 15:42.55 | *** join/#elinux hufnus (n=slonsiki@DSL135-022.labridge.com) |
| 16:51.15 | *** join/#elinux eggers (n=eggers@bi01p1.co.us.ibm.com) |
| 16:53.18 | *** join/#elinux toi (n=peter@d54C24BC0.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:54.45 | CosmicPenguin | prpplague: ping |
| 16:55.27 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: pong |
| 16:55.42 | CosmicPenguin | How's your make these days? |
| 16:55.50 | CosmicPenguin | I've got this: |
| 16:55.57 | CosmicPenguin | ORIG=this is a string |
| 16:56.02 | CosmicPenguin | and I want to turn it into this_is_a_string |
| 16:56.13 | CosmicPenguin | and $(subst \ ,_,$(ORIG)) |
| 16:56.15 | CosmicPenguin | is not working |
| 16:59.03 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: most of the stuff i've seen and done like that call sed |
| 16:59.51 | CosmicPenguin | yeah, yeah |
| 16:59.51 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i think i have some stuff like that in buildroot |
| 16:59.51 | CosmicPenguin | but still |
| 16:59.51 | CosmicPenguin | subst should work |
| 16:59.52 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: one sec |
| 17:00.23 | CosmicPenguin | we're looking dumb in front of the other OSes |
| 17:04.30 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:05.31 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: i think you need to use patsubst instead |
| 17:06.37 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hmm, nop |
| 17:18.37 | prpplague | comma:= , |
| 17:18.37 | prpplague | empty:= |
| 17:18.37 | prpplague | space:= $(empty) $(empty) |
| 17:18.37 | prpplague | foo:= a b c |
| 17:18.37 | prpplague | bar:= $(subst $(space),$(comma),$(foo)) |
| 17:18.38 | prpplague | # bar is now `a,b,c'. |
| 17:19.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: hehe |
| 17:22.25 | prpplague | $(subst $() $(),_,$(foo)) |
| 17:22.29 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that works |
| 17:23.42 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: that what you were after? |
| 17:24.35 | sjhill | you guys are disgusting |
| 17:24.40 | CosmicPenguin | That works? |
| 17:24.42 | prpplague | sjhill: hehe |
| 17:24.43 | CosmicPenguin | cool |
| 17:24.45 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yea |
| 17:24.49 | prpplague | sjhill: why is that? |
| 17:25.03 | sjhill | scripts and makefiles |
| 17:25.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:25.23 | CosmicPenguin | wow |
| 17:25.25 | CosmicPenguin | how ugly is that |
| 17:25.41 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: drink a few beers, it'll get pretty |
| 17:25.55 | CosmicPenguin | c;ear |
| 17:25.59 | CosmicPenguin | .clear |
| 17:26.01 | CosmicPenguin | agghghalfjal;kdjfasdl'ufjslakf;asejfkqsl;fasldfj;sadf |
| 17:26.09 | CosmicPenguin | know what I'm sayin'? |
| 17:26.25 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: yep |
| 17:26.40 | CosmicPenguin | well, thats fun |
| 17:26.41 | CosmicPenguin | on a bun |
| 17:26.54 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: thanks for an interesting question :) |
| 17:27.16 | CosmicPenguin | Sed is more correct to use for portability issues |
| 17:27.27 | CosmicPenguin | But learning how to do stupid and intresting things with Make is always fun |
| 17:28.44 | sjhill | i'll ask here to avoid getting flamed in #oe |
| 17:28.53 | sjhill | wth is monotone used and not subversion? |
| 17:29.17 | prpplague | sjhill: you wondered about that too? |
| 17:29.25 | CosmicPenguin | a combination of apathy, laziness, ignorance, arrogance and a splash of "becuase I said" |
| 17:30.00 | sjhill | i'm really torn between oe and buildroot |
| 17:30.02 | CosmicPenguin | A replacement for bitkeeper was needed - the distributed nature of Bitkeeper was important |
| 17:30.08 | sjhill | because i need to build both glibc and uclibc root filesystems |
| 17:30.16 | CosmicPenguin | So they tried different things - monotone was the only thing that really had the features they needed |
| 17:30.37 | CosmicPenguin | nobody spoke up to complain until the code was converted over - and by then it was "you snoozed, you lose" |
| 17:30.45 | sjhill | CosmicPenguin: but once i do the initial checkout, i could control it under subversion with not problems |
| 17:31.08 | CosmicPenguin | Nobody likes monotone except koen and mickey, and they're running the show so |
| 17:31.11 | CosmicPenguin | monotone it is |
| 17:31.46 | sjhill | the other kicker is that i need to build a core root filesystem and then other add-on tarballs or filesystem images |
| 17:31.53 | CosmicPenguin | Our biggest problem with monotone was the speed in the early days, and also that our firewall won't let us get it |
| 17:31.56 | sjhill | to create loadsets |
| 17:32.06 | CosmicPenguin | but they won't let us get svn either |
| 17:32.16 | sjhill | hmm |
| 17:32.20 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, when you started getting to that complexity of build oe is the only way to go |
| 17:32.46 | sjhill | prpplague: so have you or have you seen someone else do what i'm trying to do? |
| 17:33.16 | sjhill | and does oe do both uclibc and glibc? |
| 17:33.18 | CosmicPenguin | yes |
| 17:33.27 | CosmicPenguin | And what you're talking about could easily be done with ipkg |
| 17:33.29 | sjhill | and will oe use an external toolchain? |
| 17:33.33 | CosmicPenguin | ipkg install loadset-foo |
| 17:33.33 | prpplague | sjhill: i know some extremely complexe builds were done when kergoth and tim were at TI |
| 17:33.39 | CosmicPenguin | ipkg delete loadset-foo |
| 17:33.57 | sjhill | sorry, i'll be more specific |
| 17:34.31 | sjhill | the core rootfs will be linked into the kernel as an initrd, but then i have 2 other filesystems that will be jffs2 and get flashed in with the kernel image during factory load |
| 17:34.56 | CosmicPenguin | Ok - your biggest problems will be the kernel and the c library |
| 17:35.07 | CosmicPenguin | mixing and matching is difficult |
| 17:35.26 | CosmicPenguin | not impossible |
| 17:35.31 | sjhill | not following |
| 17:36.08 | CosmicPenguin | OE build your toolchain, and then your clibrary, which is tied in to the toolchain pretty tightly |
| 17:36.10 | prpplague | sjhill: one jffs2 will be uclibc and the otehr glibc ? |
| 17:36.11 | CosmicPenguin | buildroot does the same thing |
| 17:36.22 | CosmicPenguin | so once your toolchain and clibrary are built - thats what you use for the life of your build |
| 17:36.38 | CosmicPenguin | so in the same environment, you can't mix and match uclibc and glibc |
| 17:36.50 | CosmicPenguin | however, I just thought of a possible solution |
| 17:37.07 | CosmicPenguin | if you are famiiar enough with groking spec files, you could pull it off |
| 17:37.49 | sjhill | prpplague: no, the entire system would either be glibc or uclibc, not mixed |
| 17:37.56 | prpplague | sjhill: ahh ok |
| 17:38.19 | sjhill | my issue is building seperate filesystem images |
| 17:38.25 | sjhill | if oe can handle it |
| 17:38.43 | CosmicPenguin | thats not a problem |
| 17:38.45 | CosmicPenguin | I do it all the time |
| 17:38.52 | CosmicPenguin | bulding vfat, ext2fs, iso |
| 17:39.01 | sjhill | sweet |
| 17:39.40 | sjhill | for doing production releases and such, it looks oe will be the better fit |
| 17:39.40 | prpplague | sjhill: mind if ask a couple questions? are both jffs2 images gonna be mounted under the initrd rootfs ? |
| 17:40.18 | sjhill | prpplague: sure, once the initrd gets finished, the jffs2 filesystems will be mounted on directories mount points in the initrd |
| 17:40.53 | prpplague | sjhill: what method are you gonna use to flash the device initially with the files? |
| 17:41.09 | cbrake | sjhill: I was a little more tolerant of monotone after reading: http://venge.net/monotone/downloads/codecon-2006.pdf -- at least you know where they are coming from. |
| 17:41.12 | sjhill | JTAG |
| 17:41.18 | prpplague | sjhill: yikes |
| 17:41.51 | prpplague | sjhill: you doing it with something high speed? |
| 17:41.55 | sjhill | of course |
| 17:42.02 | prpplague | sjhill: for production? |
| 17:42.06 | sjhill | yep |
| 17:42.24 | prpplague | sjhill: with what? |
| 17:42.38 | sjhill | don't know |
| 17:42.42 | sjhill | i'd have to research that part |
| 17:42.43 | prpplague | hehe |
| 17:42.47 | kergoth | ~mornings |
| 17:42.48 | ibot | Mornings MUST be destroyed! (see also http://www.destroymornings.com/) |
| 17:43.00 | sjhill | essentially though, in the factory, they flash uboot, kernel image, extra filesystem images |
| 17:43.32 | prpplague | sjhill: well buildroot can do the extra images, but you're stuck on the glibc stuff right now |
| 17:43.48 | sjhill | well, i can patch buildroot to use glibc |
| 17:43.53 | sjhill | done that lots |
| 17:44.07 | prpplague | sjhill: yea, we are jtag'n on a small app(16k) that inits the usb slave port and receives the rest of the flash |
| 17:44.28 | prpplague | sjhill: you gonna be taking apps in/out of the build regularly? |
| 17:44.41 | sjhill | not really |
| 17:45.03 | sjhill | well, during development yes |
| 17:46.13 | prpplague | sjhill: well i'm sure CosmicPenguin and kergoth would disagree with me, but i find buildroot works much better for me when i have static builds that rarely change |
| 17:47.41 | sjhill | i kind of have a personal conflict too |
| 17:47.58 | prpplague | sjhill: hehe |
| 17:48.12 | sjhill | i want to see buildroot work better, but yet i want a build system that can handle a lot of combinations and complex builds |
| 17:48.27 | sjhill | CosmicPenguin: so does AMD use OE then? |
| 17:48.43 | prpplague | sjhill: gotcha, i understand all too well |
| 17:48.50 | kergoth | No offense, Dave, but you really haven't actually grasped or used oe enough to make an objective comparison. And naturally I've used it too much to make an objective comparison ;) |
| 17:49.00 | sjhill | heh |
| 17:49.47 | prpplague | kergoth: hehe, yea thats why the only advice i provided was that it works better for me with static unchanging builds |
| 17:51.16 | *** mode/#elinux [+o prpplague] by ChanServ |
| 18:09.34 | *** join/#elinux Sgt-Donan (n=Loutre@mto30-1-82-242-53-8.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:18.24 | *** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@aus-ext-proxy02.amd.com) |
| 18:19.55 | *** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@aus-ext-proxy02.amd.com) |
| 18:40.59 | *** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com) |
| 18:41.40 | CosmicPenguin | what did I miss? |
| 18:44.07 | prpplague | CosmicPenguin: not a darn thing |
| 18:44.34 | CosmicPenguin | you were trying to talk sjhill out of OE |
| 18:44.40 | CosmicPenguin | I wasn't here to defend it |
| 18:45.01 | CosmicPenguin | for shame |
| 18:46.15 | kergoth | personally, i dont think that people who've never actually /used/ or /understood/ a tool are in any position to argue either in favor or against it. |
| 18:47.16 | prpplague | kergoth: i've used and understood oe, i just don;t use it all the time |
| 18:47.41 | prpplague | kergoth: and i wasn't arguing against it, i was merly stating what i found |
| 18:49.06 | kergoth | i've never heard a competent oe question from you. every single one makes it obvious you have absolutely zero understanding of it |
| 18:49.32 | prpplague | i see |
| 18:50.08 | kergoth | i could certainly be wrong, but thats how it seems. |
| 18:50.35 | prpplague | kergoth: well, i don't normally feel i have to ask a whole lot of questions on a subject i tend to research it myself |
| 18:51.12 | prpplague | kergoth: i am well aware of how people in #oe deal with questions |
| 18:51.42 | kergoth | apparently you're not. |
| 18:51.59 | kergoth | perhaps you should spend some time there and learn a thing or two before commenting further |
| 18:52.18 | prpplague | kergoth: just won't comment further |
| 18:52.20 | *** part/#elinux prpplague (n=billybob@72.22.129.7) |
| 18:52.41 | CosmicPenguin | That was uncalled for |
| 19:02.17 | gcl | sjhill; FWIW, I've got buildroot using an external glibc toolchain (from crosstool) |
| 19:02.35 | gcl | I've got the same problem; I *like* buildroot; but I need glibc |
| 19:03.11 | gcl | CosmicPenguin; do you know if anyone is using oe for ppc targets? |
| 19:03.29 | CosmicPenguin | sure |
| 19:03.31 | CosmicPenguin | but thats not the point |
| 19:03.35 | CosmicPenguin | don't use oe if you need glibc |
| 19:03.50 | CosmicPenguin | use it because it will make your build system more powerful |
| 19:04.38 | gcl | don't get me wrong; I like oe also; but last I tried it, it resisted building a ppc system for me. :/ |
| 19:05.27 | *** join/#elinux TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 19:05.27 | *** mode/#elinux [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 19:05.50 | *** join/#elinux GvzEvxre (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 19:05.50 | *** mode/#elinux [+o GvzEvxre] by ChanServ |
| 19:08.31 | kergoth | gcl: :( that sucks, i might look into it |
| 19:10.54 | CosmicPenguin | heh |
| 19:10.55 | CosmicPenguin | wimps |
| 19:11.14 | CosmicPenguin | the latest version of quilt doesn't call out trailing whitespace on its own line any more |
| 19:17.02 | gcl | kergoth; of course, it was about 9 months ago that I last tried seriously. (aside from a brief look last week) |
| 19:41.58 | *** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com) |
| 19:43.36 | *** join/#elinux CosmicPenguin (n=nobody@aus-ext-proxy01.amd.com) |
| 20:41.08 | *** mode/#elinux [+v CosmicPenguin] by ChanServ |
| 21:38.38 | *** join/#elinux weo (n=weo@88.134.178.39) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 21:55.25 | *** join/#elinux weo (n=weo@88.134.178.39) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:36.52 | *** join/#elinux pierrelux (n=pierre-l@174-238.sh.cgocable.ca) |