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| 01:42.19 | chouimat | night |
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| 11:29.17 | Kjetil | Does anyone know if TinyX keyboard implementation supports *shurgs* the windows keys ? |
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| 16:32.48 | flyback | http://www.eet.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=44QQVJE2SDFH0QSNDLSCKHA?articleID=189601809 |
| 16:49.41 | YazzY | "developed a 2-gigabit OneNAND flash memory chip" |
| 16:50.45 | YazzY | someone was in hurry writing this article |
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| 19:57.25 | YazzY | what would my inittab of tinylogin look like with devfs ? It works when I dont use devfs but it never starts ttys when I do.. |
| 20:04.32 | MonMotha | YazzY: use vc/N instead of ttyN |
| 20:04.52 | MonMotha | also, make sure devfs is being mounted by the kernel (devfs=mount or set the config option to do it automatically) |
| 20:05.12 | YazzY | MonMotha: the kernel is compiled with automounting devfs |
| 20:05.12 | MonMotha | since devfsd isn't running when init is started, you won't have /dev/ttyN, only /dev/vc/N |
| 20:05.26 | MonMotha | ok, then just edit inittab to use vc/N |
| 20:05.31 | YazzY | coolies, thanks |
| 20:05.44 | MonMotha | if you want compatibility with both traditional /dev and devfs, you can make your /dev with symlinks into /dev/vc/N |
| 20:05.56 | MonMotha | (or put the dev nodes in vc and make symlinks out, either way) |
| 20:06.08 | YazzY | nah, no need for hacks |
| 20:07.48 | YazzY | MonMotha: so i would also need "Virtual terminal" in my kernel, right ? |
| 20:08.11 | MonMotha | yeah |
| 20:08.17 | YazzY | but I would not need "Standard/generic (8250/16550 and compatible UARTs) serial support" using vc/N ? |
| 20:08.18 | MonMotha | always need that |
| 20:08.34 | YazzY | MonMotha: i did not need it without devfs |
| 20:08.36 | MonMotha | not unless you want your console on a serial port (which you may) |
| 20:08.39 | YazzY | i mean, for console only |
| 20:08.47 | YazzY | MonMotha: ah, i was not clear |
| 20:08.53 | YazzY | i only need console on serial port |
| 20:09.05 | MonMotha | hum, you should always need virtual terminal unless you run the only console on /dev/console (which you can do) |
| 20:09.10 | MonMotha | ah, ok then |
| 20:09.10 | YazzY | there is no screen on my XScale |
| 20:09.15 | MonMotha | then you don't need virtual terminal, IIRC |
| 20:09.19 | MonMotha | should trim some space |
| 20:09.39 | YazzY | MonMotha: then what devices would i need for inittab to respawn ttys ? |
| 20:09.46 | YazzY | s/ttys/getty |
| 20:10.47 | MonMotha | I don't remember the devfs tree that well |
| 20:10.56 | MonMotha | if you look on a devfs system, look at what /dev/ttySN is linked to |
| 20:11.04 | MonMotha | those are what you put in inittab to get a tty on the terminal |
| 20:11.11 | YazzY | see, there are no ttySN devices there |
| 20:11.31 | MonMotha | have serial support in the running kernel? |
| 20:11.35 | MonMotha | and devfsd running, of coruse |
| 20:11.54 | YazzY | but when i login to the system over ssh i can type in the initab line using tty1 and it shows login screen |
| 20:12.02 | YazzY | yes, i have both |
| 20:12.15 | MonMotha | well, once devfsd is running, you can use the old-school dev node names |
| 20:12.15 | YazzY | i can see output fine of booting kernel |
| 20:12.21 | YazzY | it's just getty is not starting |
| 20:12.27 | MonMotha | then devfsd should create a /dev/ttySN node |
| 20:12.28 | YazzY | and login is not being executed |
| 20:12.42 | MonMotha | and the thing you put in inittab is what that links to so that it can start them before devfsd is started |
| 20:12.45 | YazzY | MonMotha: it does not create these devices.. |
| 20:12.48 | MonMotha | it should |
| 20:12.59 | MonMotha | but for some reason isn't (and this is why devfs was largely abandoned) |
| 20:13.12 | YazzY | ah |
| 20:13.17 | YazzY | so i dont need devfs ? |
| 20:13.26 | MonMotha | certainly not |
| 20:13.35 | MonMotha | many embedded systems use it because it's convenient and fairly small |
| 20:13.41 | MonMotha | but you definately don't need it |
| 20:13.58 | YazzY | i mean, if i wanted to mount my nand flash accessing it as a block device, i would be fine without devfs ? |
| 20:14.17 | MonMotha | I usually just create a minimal /dev tree on the root fs, then have a gzipped tarball containing the rest of it that's unpacked into the ram filesystem (whatever that may be) |
| 20:14.17 | YazzY | ok, so i can simply create my own /dev nodes and use them instead |
| 20:14.35 | MonMotha | of course, if space isn't tight in flash, you can just chuck them all on the fs. Modern embedded FSs handle that reasonably well |
| 20:14.39 | MonMotha | oh yeah |
| 20:14.42 | MonMotha | that's what I usually do |
| 20:14.52 | YazzY | yeah, i am using snapgear and it already has a list of devices needed for my board |
| 20:15.58 | YazzY | MonMotha: great, could you please tell me how this nand thing works? I have redboot and it loads my kernel and root file system, which gets mounted as memory file system by the kernel |
| 20:16.10 | MonMotha | that's the normal method, yead |
| 20:16.20 | YazzY | MonMotha: how would i go to create a jffs2 file system that can store information across boots ? |
| 20:16.26 | MonMotha | once that's up, you should be able to mount JFFS2 off the rest of the flash |
| 20:16.32 | MonMotha | you partition the flash |
| 20:16.36 | YazzY | MonMotha: sure but see, i need to have a partition i can store configs on |
| 20:16.50 | MonMotha | you can make many partitions |
| 20:16.58 | YazzY | MonMotha: will the partition get kept across boots ? |
| 20:17.08 | MonMotha | if it's on flash, certainly |
| 20:17.13 | YazzY | will it be "printed" into the flash ? |
| 20:17.25 | MonMotha | JFFS2 actually handles hard powerdowns reasonably well, too |
| 20:17.30 | MonMotha | yeah, linux can write to flash |
| 20:17.34 | MonMotha | jffs2 is designed for that |
| 20:18.01 | YazzY | MonMotha: could you please show me the commands needed to create a jffs file system on the nand flash ? |
| 20:18.02 | MonMotha | anything volatile that is changed often and doesn't need to be kept across power cycles should be kept in a tmpfs or similar, but config files and such do fine in jffs2 |
| 20:18.40 | MonMotha | well, what you normally do is create the FS on a PC with the initial files to get an image then dd that into the flash partition (or program it in your bootloader if supported/desired) |
| 20:18.53 | MonMotha | I don't remember allt he commands |
| 20:18.55 | MonMotha | it's been ages |
| 20:19.21 | YazzY | oki |
| 20:19.45 | MonMotha | linux should see your flash partitions, though |
| 20:19.54 | MonMotha | once you have a jffs2 image, you can dd it on and then mount it like usual |
| 20:19.54 | YazzY | so the small jfss file system could be also loaded by redboot ? |
| 20:20.04 | YazzY | ah ok |
| 20:20.05 | MonMotha | I believe redboot supports that, yes |
| 20:20.06 | YazzY | great |
| 20:20.22 | MonMotha | I've never actually used redboot, mind you |
| 20:20.26 | MonMotha | just BLOB and HH.org |
| 20:20.34 | YazzY | so that dd image needs to "live" inside my ram file system all the time ? |
| 20:20.49 | MonMotha | nono |
| 20:20.51 | YazzY | i would never be able to rm it |
| 20:20.53 | MonMotha | just for initial programming |
| 20:21.00 | MonMotha | once it's on flash it's there |
| 20:21.04 | MonMotha | unless you overwrite it, of course |
| 20:21.08 | MonMotha | flash is non-volatile |
| 20:21.32 | YazzY | sure but when i boot my kernel and my file system and mount it in RAM I then dd the image with jffs2 and create a r/w partition, |
| 20:21.43 | MonMotha | you only have to do that once |
| 20:21.46 | YazzY | but that dd file would still be thre across boots |
| 20:21.49 | MonMotha | that would be during initial programming of the device |
| 20:21.57 | YazzY | it just makes the initial image bigger |
| 20:22.01 | MonMotha | it doesn't need to be in there |
| 20:22.17 | YazzY | so what is the trick to not include it in the ram image ? |
| 20:22.34 | MonMotha | are you talking at production or during development? |
| 20:22.53 | YazzY | production |
| 20:23.14 | YazzY | i would like to start off with a fresh board, store my kernel and file system images on it |
| 20:23.27 | MonMotha | well, for production, you usually have a giant image of the flash (all partitions, including the table) and the entire flash is programmed at once |
| 20:23.29 | YazzY | then when it boots for the first time i want it to create a rw file system |
| 20:23.46 | MonMotha | sometimes via JTAG, sometimes the raw chips are programmed before being soldered down (you can get pre-programmed flash chips when you buy in quantity) |
| 20:24.09 | MonMotha | so your systems come pre-programmed with a bootloader? |
| 20:24.16 | YazzY | yes |
| 20:24.22 | YazzY | with redboot |
| 20:24.32 | YazzY | and it already has an initial linux on it |
| 20:24.35 | MonMotha | so just program it all over the serial port |
| 20:24.58 | YazzY | sure, i can get new image from my tftpd |
| 20:24.58 | YazzY | and write it over |
| 20:25.03 | YazzY | i was just thinking about how to do that more graciously |
| 20:25.06 | MonMotha | partition the flash, upload your kernel, initrd/ramdisk, and the barebones JFFS2 filesystem |
| 20:25.20 | MonMotha | most bootloaders let you program only a single flash partition |
| 20:25.34 | YazzY | if i just got 10 of the boards and wanted to tftp my images over then i would like the JFFS partition to get created automatically |
| 20:25.45 | MonMotha | your bootloader can't do that> |
| 20:25.46 | MonMotha | ? |
| 20:25.54 | MonMotha | (and 10 boards is hardly production) |
| 20:26.04 | YazzY | well, you're right |
| 20:26.11 | YazzY | it'd be 100s i hope |
| 20:26.39 | YazzY | so you mean i should just upload the JFFS image directly ? |
| 20:26.50 | YazzY | and use it instead of creating JFFS by hand ? |
| 20:27.13 | YazzY | use the redboot to write that jffs to my flash ? |
| 20:27.23 | MonMotha | yeah, that's a fairly normal procedure |
| 20:27.43 | MonMotha | usually smaller than including the tools to create a JFFS in your linux userspace, much less populating it with anything |
| 20:28.18 | YazzY | great |
| 20:28.53 | MonMotha | you make an image that's populated with whatever you like on yoru desktop then upload that (tftp, serial, etc.) to your booloader which writes it to the desired flash partition |
| 20:28.58 | MonMotha | once linux boots, it can mount that fs as normal |
| 20:28.59 | YazzY | so i run my rootfs and my kernel in ram and jffs as an aditional image mounted after boot |
| 20:29.04 | MonMotha | sure |
| 20:29.06 | MonMotha | that's par for the course |
| 20:29.08 | YazzY | lovely :) |
| 20:29.25 | MonMotha | many devices run / on a ramdisk of some kind and have a small section of flash running jffs2 for configuration storage |
| 20:29.43 | YazzY | yes, that's a reasonable thing |
| 20:29.56 | YazzY | or have a CF mounted as a storage |
| 20:30.39 | YazzY | MonMotha: any idea how to actually translate the hex code of memory size to a human readable form ? |
| 20:31.10 | youam | YazzY: echo $[0x1234] |
| 20:31.47 | MonMotha | heh, I just work in hex :) |
| 20:34.21 | YazzY | ok, how many lines can i paste into this channel ? |
| 20:34.29 | MonMotha | preferably no more than 1 or 2 |
| 20:35.55 | YazzY | Name FLASH addr Mem addr Length Entry point |
| 20:35.57 | YazzY | RedBoot 0x50000000 0x50000000 0x00080000 0x00000000 |
| 20:36.10 | YazzY | this is what my redboot says about memory |
| 20:36.27 | YazzY | my system lives in other areas of it |
| 20:36.38 | YazzY | zImage 0x50080000 0x01600000 0x000C0000 0x01600000 |
| 20:36.39 | YazzY | ramdisk 0x50140000 0x00800000 0x001E0000 0x00800000 |
| 20:36.53 | YazzY | so how to i read those HEX values? ^^ |
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