| 00:21.52 | *** join/#elive apt (~apt@rikers.org) |
| 00:21.52 | *** topic/#elive is Web: http://www.elivecd.org | BTS: http://bugs.elivecd.org - please report problems so we can solve them | Forum: http://forum.elivecd.org | Elive 3.0 is on the way and going to be entirely cost-free! |
| 01:40.19 | *** join/#elive apt (~apt@rikers.org) |
| 01:40.19 | *** topic/#elive is Web: http://www.elivecd.org | BTS: http://bugs.elivecd.org - please report problems so we can solve them | Forum: http://forum.elivecd.org | Elive 3.0 is on the way and going to be entirely cost-free! |
| 05:13.42 | *** join/#elive grottem (~grottem@51-171-53-98-dynamic.agg7.etn.lmk-pgs.eircom.net) |
| 05:52.36 | Naglfar | morning grottem |
| 05:52.38 | keyra | good morning! |
| 05:52.53 | grottem | morning Naglfar |
| 06:42.19 | grottem | going to take breakfast and then i'm off for a 500km drive (by car) today |
| 06:46.17 | Naglfar | have a good breakfast, it's a long drive to the end of the drive |
| 06:47.04 | grottem | yep but worth it |
| 06:47.15 | grottem | see you this evening or so |
| 09:05.31 | *** join/#elive Elive_user_en_83 (~Elive_use@203-59-211-42.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:05.37 | keyra | welcome to Elive, Elive_user_en_83! =) |
| 09:05.45 | keyra | how is your experience with Elive so far? any suggestion or issue to report us so we can make it better? for a direct assistance just talk to Thanatermesi or use http://bugs.elivecd.org , your feedbacks is important for improve Elive and your reports are for the correct work for everybody! |
| 13:58.48 | *** join/#elive Elive_user_es_31 (~Elive_use@203.red-79-153-246.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 13:58.53 | keyra | welcome to Elive, Elive_user_es_31! =) |
| 13:59.01 | keyra | how is your experience with Elive so far? any suggestion or issue to report us so we can make it better? for a direct assistance just talk to Thanatermesi or use http://bugs.elivecd.org , your feedbacks is important for improve Elive and your reports are for the correct work for everybody! |
| 18:24.44 | *** join/#elive apt (~apt@rikers.org) |
| 18:24.44 | *** topic/#elive is Web: http://www.elivecd.org | BTS: http://bugs.elivecd.org - please report problems so we can solve them | Forum: http://forum.elivecd.org | Elive 3.0 is on the way and going to be entirely cost-free! |
| 19:43.05 | *** join/#elive apt (~apt@rikers.org) |
| 19:43.05 | *** topic/#elive is Web: http://www.elivecd.org | BTS: http://bugs.elivecd.org - please report problems so we can solve them | Forum: http://forum.elivecd.org | Elive 3.0 is on the way and going to be entirely cost-free! |
| 21:53.00 | *** join/#elive grottem (~grottem@51-171-53-98-dynamic.agg7.etn.lmk-pgs.eircom.net) |
| 21:53.29 | grottem | evening all |
| 21:53.46 | grottem | Naglfar, back home survived the trip |
| 21:54.14 | Naglfar | evening grottem |
| 21:54.35 | Naglfar | last time you was 500km ago |
| 21:55.09 | grottem | was 600 |
| 21:55.17 | grottem | did 100 more |
| 21:59.38 | *** join/#elive Thanatermesis (~unknown@185.73.168.18) |
| 21:59.38 | *** join/#elive Thanatermesis (~unknown@unaffiliated/thanatermesis) |
| 21:59.44 | Thanatermesis | ikevin, ping |
| 21:59.58 | grottem | hi Thanatermesis |
| 22:00.06 | Thanatermesis | o/ grottem |
| 22:00.08 | keyra | hi! |
| 22:04.26 | grottem | Naglfar, it's my first time driving on the left :p |
| 22:04.46 | Thanatermesis | 2.9.4 is released, but im unable to announce it |
| 22:05.09 | grottem | released yesterday? |
| 22:05.46 | Naglfar | hi Thanatermesis |
| 22:06.02 | Thanatermesis | yes |
| 22:06.07 | Thanatermesis | hi Naglfar |
| 22:06.56 | grottem | hehe ok :p installed it yesterday :p |
| 22:07.42 | Thanatermesis | nice! does looks good? :) |
| 22:07.44 | keyra | :) |
| 22:07.56 | Thanatermesis | i just made a video, may use it for the announcement (now problem is how to announce...) |
| 22:08.14 | grottem | sweet |
| 22:12.20 | grottem | doing good work Thanatermesis |
| 22:13.12 | Thanatermesis | thx :) |
| 22:13.14 | keyra | :) |
| 22:13.52 | grottem | always happy with new packages :) |
| 22:14.28 | Thanatermesis | unfortunately i still having the email issues :/ |
| 22:14.31 | keyra | :| |
| 22:14.34 | Thanatermesis | wtf lose of time |
| 22:14.49 | grottem | still? |
| 22:15.06 | grottem | sorry wasn't able to do much lately |
| 22:15.17 | grottem | i happy when i can test a little :) |
| 22:16.25 | Thanatermesis | well, i dont know how to solve it in fact |
| 22:17.49 | Thanatermesis | ok, someone is coming to help :) |
| 22:20.43 | grottem | ok :) |
| 22:20.45 | keyra | :) |
| 22:20.48 | grottem | hope it got fixed soon |
| 22:22.17 | *** join/#elive yebyen (~yebyen@martyfunkhouser.csh.rit.edu) |
| 22:22.20 | *** join/#elive Thanatermesis (~unknown@185.73.168.18) |
| 22:22.20 | *** join/#elive Thanatermesis (~unknown@unaffiliated/thanatermesis) |
| 22:22.33 | yebyen | hello Thanatermesis |
| 22:22.47 | Thanatermesis | hi yebyen :) |
| 22:22.49 | keyra | :) |
| 22:23.08 | yebyen | bayes99 eh |
| 22:23.21 | yebyen | heck |
| 22:24.06 | Thanatermesis | hack? |
| 22:24.18 | yebyen | heck! |
| 22:24.29 | Thanatermesis | mmmh ok that makes sense |
| 22:24.34 | yebyen | oh hek |
| 22:24.41 | yebyen | spam filters are a b |
| 22:24.44 | Thanatermesis | while i was jailed (lol) seems like the server was -somehow- hacked |
| 22:24.57 | yebyen | I haven't been getting any spam from you |
| 22:25.04 | Thanatermesis | when i returned i found a good bunch of subscribed emails to the database, that looked like FAKE emails |
| 22:25.05 | yebyen | if you're wondering if your list was compromised |
| 22:25.07 | keyra | wonder! wonder! |
| 22:25.20 | yebyen | You might just have a subscription issue |
| 22:25.29 | yebyen | I had one of those before too |
| 22:25.41 | Thanatermesis | that's the only thing that i know about... so i dont know what "more" has been hacked than that (so what i did is to delete a few of them and add a captcha) |
| 22:25.46 | yebyen | Chair store site with subscribers that are obviously randomly generated accounts |
| 22:26.04 | yebyen | they never did anything (that I was logging anyway) |
| 22:26.22 | yebyen | sometimes they would put spam on my chair sales listings |
| 22:26.23 | Thanatermesis | yeah sounds like this |
| 22:26.46 | yebyen | so how is bayes99? |
| 22:26.56 | yebyen | i am a few beers into friday already so pardon |
| 22:27.14 | Thanatermesis | wonders what is the reason of why these fake subscripts are for... |
| 22:27.22 | Thanatermesis | sounds good :) |
| 22:27.24 | yebyen | i must have misunderstood your emails then, or did you say that outbound smtp was somehow compromised apparently |
| 22:27.25 | keyra | :) |
| 22:27.37 | yebyen | or is it just that you got onto spam lists? |
| 22:27.46 | yebyen | and now are blackholed |
| 22:28.03 | Thanatermesis | ok so this is a just generated report: http://isnotspam.com/newlatestreport.php?email=ins-0hyoopdq%40isnotspam.com |
| 22:28.18 | yebyen | I am on my debian sid laptop by the way |
| 22:28.25 | yebyen | upgraded from elive |
| 22:28.25 | Thanatermesis | i tried to set up an AWS account to send emails but i dont think that this is the correct solution (and its a paying service too) |
| 22:28.28 | keyra | it is not suggested to modify the repositories of elive, wrong things will happen! lots of things will not work, well, do it at your own risk, but now you are warned :) |
| 22:28.29 | yebyen | ^_^ |
| 22:29.05 | yebyen | I'm loading and waiting on that page |
| 22:29.07 | yebyen | hasn't timed out |
| 22:29.11 | *** join/#elive Elive_user_es_15 (~Elive_use@187.225.58.244) |
| 22:29.34 | keyra | welcome to Elive, Elive_user_es_15! =) |
| 22:29.34 | yebyen | but nothing appearing... large page? |
| 22:29.34 | keyra | how is your experience with Elive so far? any suggestion or issue to report us so we can make it better? for a direct assistance just talk to Thanatermesi or use http://bugs.elivecd.org , your feedbacks is important for improve Elive and your reports are for the correct work for everybody! |
| 22:29.34 | yebyen | here we go |
| 22:29.37 | *** join/#elive Elive_user_es_53 (~Elive_use@187.225.58.244) |
| 22:29.42 | keyra | welcome to Elive, Elive_user_es_53! =) |
| 22:29.50 | keyra | how is your experience with Elive so far? any suggestion or issue to report us so we can make it better? for a direct assistance just talk to Thanatermesi or use http://bugs.elivecd.org , your feedbacks is important for improve Elive and your reports are for the correct work for everybody! |
| 22:29.59 | yebyen | hmm it says dkim is invalid |
| 22:30.10 | Thanatermesis | outbound smtp ? i dont think so (but i dont know), in fact the smtp is not reachable externally of the server... what -only- (i think) that could have happened is that the server HAS SENT the last newsletter to these fake emails (some of them are gmail ones) and so now Elive server is considered as a spammer (i assume) |
| 22:30.19 | yebyen | oh i see there are two DKIM results |
| 22:30.21 | yebyen | one of them is gmail |
| 22:30.28 | yebyen | this still looks like it's set up properly |
| 22:30.53 | yebyen | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:31.04 | yebyen | I think it's your tarzanic style |
| 22:31.11 | yebyen | I don't know what else it could be |
| 22:31.19 | yebyen | I do see your emails go to spam all the time, I take them out |
| 22:31.20 | Thanatermesis | let me try to remove that dkim... is about an auto-bounce feature that i dont use much... |
| 22:31.21 | yebyen | "Not Spam" |
| 22:31.39 | yebyen | spf check softfail |
| 22:31.52 | yebyen | that doesn't look very good either |
| 22:32.21 | Thanatermesis | well, they should work correctly, let me try to fix it... |
| 22:32.24 | yebyen | the good news is SpamAssassin says you are ham |
| 22:32.53 | yebyen | this is a cool website |
| 22:33.06 | Thanatermesis | just discovered it recently :) because of the need lol |
| 22:33.41 | yebyen | wow bayes gives you 999 |
| 22:33.43 | keyra | woooha! |
| 22:33.43 | yebyen | three nines |
| 22:34.15 | yebyen | 0.1% chance of not being spam |
| 22:34.27 | yebyen | there has to be some way to know how that is decided |
| 22:34.41 | yebyen | it says BODY |
| 22:35.07 | Thanatermesis | ok new one: http://isnotspam.com/newlatestreport.php?email=ins-s5axm05x%40isnotspam.com |
| 22:35.07 | yebyen | i know there are some things that can trigger the body of your email to be categorized as spam |
| 22:35.19 | yebyen | one of them is putting a lot of HTML, another one is to have pictures, especially more than one picture |
| 22:35.31 | Thanatermesis | ok that sounds veyr probable |
| 22:35.41 | Thanatermesis | but is strange... i used the same template as always |
| 22:35.54 | yebyen | i told your emails always go to spam for me |
| 22:35.56 | Thanatermesis | unless i never knew that they goes to spam? :) |
| 22:36.16 | keyra | :) |
| 22:36.44 | Thanatermesis | well, they always reached correctly my other gmail boxes :/ |
| 22:36.44 | keyra | :| |
| 22:36.44 | yebyen | i am always clicking "Not Spam" |
| 22:36.44 | Thanatermesis | by other side hotmail NEVER gets any email from Elive (not even in the spam folder, they are entirely discarded) |
| 22:36.44 | yebyen | i should just whitelist your domain |
| 22:36.44 | keyra | microsoft says that a folder is something between the desktop and the trash, just in face of the books and pencils, near of the chair... why ppl dont say just directory ? |
| 22:36.44 | Thanatermesis | yebyen, nah, is good for tests to not whitelist :) |
| 22:36.55 | Thanatermesis | well, or to have another account for that, like i do |
| 22:37.03 | yebyen | yeah I'll keep it this way so I can tell you if it's still going to spam! |
| 22:37.11 | Thanatermesis | always? mmh.. since when ? you mean more than one year? |
| 22:37.29 | yebyen | I have fished your e-mails out of the spam folder for a number of months at least |
| 22:37.34 | yebyen | you don't send that many e-mails |
| 22:37.37 | Thanatermesis | the thing is that if im not wrong, the Elive server has GOOD reputation as spam ranking stuff |
| 22:37.54 | Thanatermesis | yeah, one per month max |
| 22:38.00 | yebyen | yeah so your DKIM does look good |
| 22:38.17 | yebyen | it says at least one valid DKIM signature and you get a negative spam rating for that |
| 22:38.49 | Thanatermesis | negative for what? there's multiple dkim's included? |
| 22:39.00 | yebyen | * 0.2 FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN 2nd level domains in From and |
| 22:39.01 | yebyen | * EnvelopeFrom freemail headers are different |
| 22:39.06 | Thanatermesis | added new ones for the AWS configurations |
| 22:39.19 | yebyen | Negative meaning you have been rated as not-spam for having valid DKIM |
| 22:39.40 | yebyen | 0.1- |
| 22:39.40 | yebyen | it looks like there are two 0.1- ratings and one 0.1 rating for DKIM |
| 22:39.40 | Thanatermesis | oh, negative spam... |
| 22:39.42 | yebyen | for a net 0.1- |
| 22:40.09 | Thanatermesis | "negate the negation, and you get all humans confused" lol |
| 22:40.09 | yebyen | DKIM doesn't count for much |
| 22:40.09 | yebyen | X-Spam-Score: -5.4 |
| 22:40.41 | yebyen | it does say that SPF is wrong and that counted strong against you |
| 22:41.38 | Thanatermesis | it says my SPF is wrong in the last check? |
| 22:42.32 | yebyen | i see that's why this page takes so long to load |
| 22:42.36 | yebyen | it's checking now! |
| 22:42.38 | Thanatermesis | btw i tried some minutes ago an email with a very plain template (much less images etc) and it go to spam too |
| 22:42.38 | yebyen | that's fantastic |
| 22:42.55 | yebyen | bayes is based on the words in your email |
| 22:43.17 | yebyen | i would be interested to know what this bayes score is based on |
| 22:43.17 | yebyen | because it says spamassassin classified your mail as not spam |
| 22:43.30 | yebyen | but it bayes gave you a 99.9% probability of being spam |
| 22:44.03 | Thanatermesis | so im using offensive words ? |
| 22:44.05 | yebyen | try taking all of the words out of the email and see what kind of score you get on bayes |
| 22:44.17 | Thanatermesis | "the Elive installer includes even VIAGRA!" lol |
| 22:44.28 | yebyen | v1ag4ra |
| 22:44.40 | yebyen | get your c1al1s here |
| 22:44.58 | Thanatermesis | mmh ok let me try a very plain email for that... |
| 22:46.37 | yebyen | WE WANT TO RELEASE IT ENTIRELY COST-FREE FOR EVERYONE! |
| 22:47.05 | yebyen | I bet "cost free" is jacking up your spam score |
| 22:47.23 | Thanatermesis | yeah, this world only works by capitalism... |
| 22:47.30 | keyra | capitalism sucks :P, did you know about the venus project? its something like open-source principes applied to the society and economy |
| 22:47.58 | Thanatermesis | what about beers? (see the copyright message) |
| 22:48.08 | yebyen | i think beers are ok |
| 22:48.16 | yebyen | oh man I give you a high spam score for all this inline css though |
| 22:48.24 | yebyen | i know there's no other way in an email |
| 22:48.25 | yebyen | but |
| 22:48.27 | Thanatermesis | yebyen, tell me an email to send you a copy of this next test |
| 22:48.47 | yebyen | kingdon at tuesdaystudios.com |
| 22:49.16 | Thanatermesis | sent |
| 22:49.21 | Thanatermesis | lets see the rank for this one... |
| 22:49.57 | Thanatermesis | css ? hum, that's the default template (slightly modified with logo etc) from the WP plugin |
| 22:50.40 | Thanatermesis | let me try after with another-old template.. |
| 22:50.50 | yebyen | i think your spam score goes up for all these tables |
| 22:51.08 | yebyen | there's no content in this e-mail but there are a ton of html tables |
| 22:51.49 | yebyen | 28KB, not even counting the image |
| 22:52.15 | Thanatermesis | http://isnotspam.com/newlatestreport.php?email=ins-65xb0l2f%40isnotspam.com |
| 22:52.18 | Thanatermesis | still bayes_99 |
| 22:52.22 | Thanatermesis | ok let's try old template... |
| 22:52.32 | yebyen | go retro |
| 22:52.57 | yebyen | ok so, you get just for putting *any* html in your e-mail message... |
| 22:53.17 | yebyen | spam rating of +0.1 |
| 22:53.52 | Thanatermesis | i will need to create a new template (in hand) for that :) |
| 22:53.54 | keyra | :) |
| 22:54.35 | Thanatermesis | damn.. same thing |
| 22:55.03 | yebyen | so DNSWL.org is a good thing, at least |
| 22:55.14 | yebyen | you have very much negative rating according to this |
| 22:55.30 | Thanatermesis | and that's strange, huh? |
| 22:55.30 | yebyen | but I bet bayes is triggered by the amount of tables and inline css that you have |
| 22:55.41 | yebyen | and some filters might be using bayes alone |
| 22:55.44 | Thanatermesis | well, i just tried with old template and there's the same thing |
| 22:56.10 | yebyen | so you need new letterhead |
| 22:56.14 | yebyen | with html5 and modern css |
| 22:56.41 | Thanatermesis | again same with an even older one... thats strange |
| 22:58.57 | yebyen | -ms-interpolation-mode:bicubic;image-rendering:optimizeQuality;borde= |
| 22:58.58 | yebyen | r:none;margin:0;background:none |
| 22:59.01 | yebyen | baloney |
| 22:59.22 | yebyen | i have pulled a lot of your emails out of the spam bucket |
| 22:59.28 | yebyen | they are beautiful emails! |
| 22:59.40 | yebyen | they look great in my email client, which is gmail |
| 22:59.52 | yebyen | but i have to pull them out of the spam bucket |
| 23:00.14 | yebyen | how did you compose this template |
| 23:00.16 | Thanatermesis | hum... removed the "animated Elive logo" and removed the social-media links... stills same spam |
| 23:00.44 | yebyen | it's not the links at all it's the HTML |
| 23:00.46 | yebyen | there is so much embedded css and i have to believe that most of it means nothing |
| 23:00.52 | yebyen | looks like frontpage |
| 23:01.15 | Thanatermesis | i used the default template that comes with this very-nice newsletter plugin for wordpress and changed a few things (the logo, with an anmiated gif, i recently put an animated gif too for the lines, that "opens" :) |
| 23:01.18 | keyra | :) |
| 23:01.37 | Thanatermesis | ok let me try to remove that css and see... |
| 23:01.41 | yebyen | you would probably get a better spam rating if you took a picture of all of that HTML and included it in the email instead |
| 23:02.33 | yebyen | you could put the design as an image background and then just overlay text |
| 23:03.41 | yebyen | did you know I moved to Indiana? |
| 23:04.34 | Thanatermesis | too much work :/ this email stuff is automated, dont want to do much manual work (like screenshots) |
| 23:04.34 | keyra | press the Print/Sys key of your keyboard and it will make a screenshot, or open the menu of applications, or alt + right-click in a window to screenshot this window only |
| 23:04.51 | Thanatermesis | indiana! it is cold there? |
| 23:05.06 | Thanatermesis | keyra, make screenshots of the newsletters, you can automate things! |
| 23:06.08 | Thanatermesis | no css, still spam |
| 23:06.10 | Thanatermesis | let's remove html |
| 23:06.39 | yebyen | right now it's hot here |
| 23:06.44 | yebyen | 90 degrees or so |
| 23:06.55 | yebyen | i'm at Notre Dame Indiana in fact! |
| 23:07.48 | yebyen | well this email looked a lot better to me |
| 23:08.05 | yebyen | to my naked eye, it looks good as an email and it looks less dense as a blob of html |
| 23:08.16 | Thanatermesis | finally, this one didnt go to spam... strange, let's see what the test says |
| 23:08.52 | Thanatermesis | yebyen, yeah but the one you received got the same spam level |
| 23:09.13 | yebyen | i think it is considered bad form to put a stylesheet in html email |
| 23:09.34 | Thanatermesis | the thing is that im pretty sure that the "fake email registrations" affected to this... hum |
| 23:09.37 | yebyen | i am almost sure that you're supposed to inline whatever styles you need in email |
| 23:09.58 | yebyen | and to use as few as you possibly can |
| 23:09.58 | Thanatermesis | so maybe those "fake" (or real) users received emails from Elive that they didn't know what is for, and marked them as spam ? |
| 23:10.02 | yebyen | because every kb counts against you |
| 23:10.35 | yebyen | if you can make your whole e-mail <1KB |
| 23:10.38 | yebyen | this one is still 24KB |
| 23:11.22 | yebyen | don't worry about the size of the images |
| 23:11.27 | yebyen | because they're not in the body of the email |
| 23:11.30 | yebyen | and they're not large |
| 23:11.39 | Thanatermesis | trying to clean all the html to see what it does |
| 23:12.07 | Thanatermesis | damn! |
| 23:12.33 | Thanatermesis | ok so: no css, no html tables... still saying bayes_99 (but by some reason now my gmail-for-tests doesn't put it to spam) |
| 23:12.35 | Thanatermesis | wtf |
| 23:12.51 | Thanatermesis | yebyen, ^ http://isnotspam.com/newlatestreport.php?email=ins-lolf5j2i%40isnotspam.com |
| 23:13.33 | Thanatermesis | also an email sent to your box |
| 23:14.11 | yebyen | well that looks like it should be OK |
| 23:14.13 | yebyen | lol |
| 23:14.22 | yebyen | -6.3 |
| 23:14.26 | yebyen | your spam score went down |
| 23:14.36 | *** join/#elive grottem (~grottem@51-171-53-98-dynamic.agg7.etn.lmk-pgs.eircom.net) |
| 23:14.50 | yebyen | ok now try putting the text back in there |
| 23:14.52 | yebyen | but only the text |
| 23:14.57 | yebyen | don't put any links or images |
| 23:15.12 | yebyen | your bayes score will be high too, if there is not enough text |
| 23:15.24 | yebyen | it looks for words that are not usually found in spam |
| 23:15.41 | yebyen | and if it finds enough of them, vs words that are usually found in spam, you get a good rating |
| 23:15.55 | Thanatermesis | what it was before? -5.4 ? |
| 23:16.05 | yebyen | yeah you gained almost a point of good rating |
| 23:16.27 | yebyen | if you can knock out that bayes rating then you will be -10 or better |
| 23:16.38 | Thanatermesis | it is a point really much/worth? |
| 23:16.48 | yebyen | absolutely |
| 23:16.57 | yebyen | you saw it yourself, gmail didn't categorize that one as spam right |
| 23:17.10 | Thanatermesis | well, actually the only thing that i changed that put the email in my gmail as GOOD it was the tables |
| 23:17.11 | yebyen | none of the messages you've sent me today have gone to spam either |
| 23:17.14 | Thanatermesis | html tables * |
| 23:17.44 | yebyen | right and changing that much, really was all it took to move your spam score 0.9 |
| 23:17.55 | yebyen | that was enough to keep it out of the gmail spambox lol |
| 23:18.16 | Thanatermesis | what? all of them did go to spam in my extra gmail account... only the last one (without tables) didnt... i assume that your gmail account learned that Elive is not spam :) |
| 23:18.18 | keyra | :) |
| 23:18.39 | yebyen | i was just looking at the spam scores on the link you sent me |
| 23:18.50 | yebyen | this one with hardly any HTML did not get rated as severely |
| 23:19.03 | yebyen | I don't know if that -10 is a real number either |
| 23:19.32 | yebyen | some spam scoring algorithms might not consider that at all |
| 23:19.32 | Thanatermesis | ok so... there's still something important: there's the BAYES_99 stuff that stills here (in a non-css, non-html-tables, almost-no-html, no-elive-previous-used-text, etc) |
| 23:19.36 | yebyen | you don't have enough words in this email |
| 23:19.37 | Thanatermesis | so what causes it since the email is almost empty of all? |
| 23:19.42 | yebyen | that's the problem |
| 23:19.54 | yebyen | have you ever read about bayes algorithm? |
| 23:20.05 | yebyen | or bayes theory as they say |
| 23:20.12 | Thanatermesis | yeah, it was a math thing that i didnt understood :) |
| 23:20.23 | yebyen | i didn't either but my wife is a phd student and she gets it |
| 23:20.25 | Thanatermesis | but is about a learning-users-feature ? |
| 23:20.49 | yebyen | so she is a biologist and she uses it for population modeling |
| 23:21.21 | yebyen | in her domain when they use bayes theorem, they take samples to determine the size of the population |
| 23:21.25 | yebyen | they take samples to determine the food source |
| 23:21.32 | yebyen | they do this repeatedly |
| 23:21.58 | yebyen | then they use the information known about these variables to inform models |
| 23:22.27 | yebyen | so a bayes model could tell you that population growth is outpacing the food supply for example |
| 23:22.50 | yebyen | anyway the mathematical model just kind of looks like weighted means |
| 23:22.52 | Thanatermesis | i just added some words from here :) |
| 23:23.15 | yebyen | i would try it with the text of the original email but ctrl+shift+v to remove all of the HTML formatting it |
| 23:24.13 | yebyen | bayes formula is for calculating the probability of B given A |
| 23:24.24 | yebyen | so if we know the food supply is in abundance |
| 23:24.36 | yebyen | and we know the population is relatively small |
| 23:24.50 | yebyen | what's the probability of greater population growth |
| 23:24.54 | yebyen | high! |
| 23:25.02 | yebyen | that's what bayes formula tells you |
| 23:26.10 | yebyen | if you are testing if someone has a disease |
| 23:26.23 | yebyen | and the test for the disease has a 99% accuracy rating |
| 23:27.13 | yebyen | or say the test has a 10% false-positive rating |
| 23:28.02 | Thanatermesis | ok, still bayes_99 after to add text |
| 23:28.15 | yebyen | what about bayes999 |
| 23:28.26 | yebyen | that's the one i'd worry about |
| 23:28.44 | yebyen | ok because bayes theorem uses the information about the population too |
| 23:28.51 | yebyen | so if your test is 99% accurate |
| 23:29.16 | yebyen | and the disease affects 0.5% of people |
| 23:29.40 | Thanatermesis | * 0.2 BAYES_999 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 99.9 to 100% |
| 23:29.51 | Thanatermesis | X-Spam-Status: Yes, hits=-6.3 required=-20.0 tests=BAYES_99,BAYES_999, |
| 23:30.03 | yebyen | that means there's a 5% chance that the test will show spam and it's not spam |
| 23:30.11 | yebyen | that's higher than you'd think |
| 23:30.14 | yebyen | that's not 1% |
| 23:32.30 | Thanatermesis | confused about the description/ranking of bayes_99 & 999 |
| 23:32.42 | Thanatermesis | so the value here is 0.2 ? |
| 23:48.12 | yebyen | yeah that extra 0.9% only gets you another 0.2 |
| 23:48.25 | yebyen | the majority of your spam ranking comes from that first 99% spam ranking |
| 23:48.35 | yebyen | so if you can make yourself look like maybe 50% chance of being spam |
| 23:48.40 | yebyen | you will do much better |
| 23:48.57 | Thanatermesis | i just changed the text for the future subscriptors to this: Please confirm your subscription! - And help us to fight against spammers attacks by adding this email to your contacts list and mark it as important |
| 23:49.01 | Thanatermesis | how does sounds like ? |
| 23:49.09 | Thanatermesis | maybe too long... |
| 23:50.04 | Thanatermesis | yebyen, mmh the bayes 99 & 999 looks to have the same results between the first and last test, if im not wrong? |
| 23:51.44 | yebyen | check out this very informative page |
| 23:51.45 | yebyen | https://wiki.apache.org/spamassassin/Rules/BAYES_99 |
| 23:51.49 | Thanatermesis | btw no-reply@elivecd.org is receiving spam emails, i assume that this is normal... (since this address is known and so collected by spammers) |
| 23:51.53 | yebyen | don't forget the link at the bottom |
| 23:52.03 | yebyen | the very helpful link to nowhere |
| 23:52.11 | yebyen | that would be exactly what we need to know :D |
| 23:52.26 | yebyen | http://spamassassin.apache.org/old/tests_3_3_x.html |
| 23:52.29 | yebyen | this looks helpful |
| 23:53.30 | Thanatermesis | omg this is a LONG list of rules |
| 23:53.32 | yebyen | try putting this string in there |
| 23:53.34 | yebyen | XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-UBE-TEST-EMAIL*C.34X |
| 23:53.37 | Thanatermesis | i need to read and brainstorm all of them ? lol |
| 23:53.39 | yebyen | boom |
| 23:53.41 | yebyen | instantly spam |
| 23:53.52 | Thanatermesis | hum |
| 23:54.00 | yebyen | if you can install spam assassin it will tell you which ones are triggered |
| 23:54.33 | yebyen | you can't even sort this list to see what gets the highest score ranking |
| 23:55.04 | Thanatermesis | hum.. now i found something REALLY interesting |
| 23:55.07 | Thanatermesis | give me a sec |
| 23:55.44 | Thanatermesis | so i can install spamassasin in the Elive server and so to send me an email notification if there's wrong words/configurations used? |
| 23:56.41 | Thanatermesis | yebyen, tell me if the last email did go to spam for you |
| 23:56.51 | Thanatermesis | or.. you should delete first the previous ones? |
| 23:58.20 | yebyen | i don't have anything in spam from you and i didn't get anything delivered either |
| 23:58.40 | yebyen | you can get spamassassin to read the mail that you send to yourself and classify it |
| 23:58.52 | yebyen | or just pipe it directly into spamassassin |
| 23:59.08 | yebyen | make sure you get your actual mail including headers from a real transmission though |