| 00:47:01 | Disconnect | is away: food, sleep, work, repeat. |
| 00:50:12 | boodle | figures out how to use bsetbg to set splash but wishes Tux upgraded to 0.4 :) |
| 11:21:40 | a7r | is away: -> vedge |
| 11:33:28 | cworth | re |
| 12:56:26 | Kero | A subtle bug in v0.4: each time I resize xvkbd in ion, it loses some of its displayable stuff, ultimately resulting in missing keys. |
| 12:57:37 | nikos | That's either a bug in ion or xvkbd. |
| 12:58:00 | nikos | I think cworth is inclined to blame poor resize handling in xvkbd. |
| 12:58:12 | cworth | nikos: almost certainly xvkbd's fault |
| 12:58:40 | nikos | cworth: xvkbd needs to go anyway, I hope someone get's a good GtkKeyboard trimmed build together. |
| 13:00:07 | Kero | fine with me. |
| 13:00:28 | Kero | (why gtk? for a keyboard?!?) |
| 13:02:01 | nikos | Well, I'm not PROMOTING GTK. |
| 13:02:12 | nikos | I'm demoted Xt/Xaw on which xvkbd depend. |
| 13:02:17 | nikos | s/demoted/demoting/ |
| 13:02:54 | nikos | Kero: A pure xlib keyboard would be great, I haven't seen one yet though. |
| 13:06:04 | Kero | The trickiest part to me seems focus, where kdb should dump the result. |
| 13:06:30 | Kero | the rest should be easy, i.e. widgetset independent... (I hope) |
| 13:06:57 | nikos | focus has something to do with a widgetset? |
| 13:07:12 | Kero | hope not :-) |
| 13:07:29 | nikos | Is there any way for an app that gets focus to find out who just had the focus? |
| 13:07:46 | Kero | not the vaguest idea... |
| 13:08:04 | nikos | It would be nice for a kbd to be able to just give the focus back all the time. |
| 13:08:29 | cworth | nikos: an app can receive mouse event without ever having keyboard focus. Seems like the simplest solution to me... |
| 13:08:30 | Kero | may be it needn't /get/ focus, only mouseevents. |
| 13:08:48 | nikos | cworth: Oh? Quite right. |
| 13:08:59 | nikos | Shows how much I know... |
| 14:12:12 | fad | hallo |
| 14:12:29 | fad | half way through downloading my first familiar linux installation to my dads ipaq :) |
| 14:13:45 | nikos | Cool |
| 14:14:09 | fad | um, this sounds daft but what software can i get to run on it? |
| 14:14:27 | nikos | fad: Well, anything you can port. ;) |
| 14:14:37 | fad | is stoopid |
| 14:14:41 | fad | anything already ported? |
| 14:14:44 | nikos | fad: Seriously, there is a long list. |
| 14:14:52 | fad | cool, can you gimme a url? |
| 14:15:01 | nikos | fad: I'm afraid there's no one single source. |
| 14:15:14 | fad | i mean of done like console apps in c++ and some win32 stuff but no nix :( |
| 14:15:26 | nikos | fad: But you can start with http://handhelds.org, http://familiar.handhelds.org, http://handhelds.org/z/wiki |
| 14:15:32 | fad | nikos: ok, can you gimme two or three urls of software that'll impress him? |
| 14:15:36 | fad | thanks |
| 14:15:41 | fad | can i get dopewars? :) |
| 14:15:57 | nikos | fad: I'm not familiar with it. |
| 14:16:12 | fad | lol, ok cool |
| 14:16:17 | nikos | fad: It's going to be easiest to start with Unix or Linux source. |
| 14:16:45 | fad | hmm, ok what i mean is i've done c++ console apps |
| 14:17:05 | fad | can i get anykind of onscreen keyboard for him? |
| 14:17:24 | nikos | fad: Yes, familiar currently includes xvkbd. |
| 14:17:29 | fad | :) |
| 14:17:44 | nikos | fad: Let me warn you. There's not much in the way of real PIM functionality. |
| 14:17:44 | fad | 7:30 remaining for root cramfs :) |
| 14:17:55 | fad | nikos: is there any at all? |
| 14:18:02 | nikos | fad: Some, a lot of work is being done. |
| 14:18:20 | fad | ok cool, think i'll be able to convince him to leave it on their? |
| 14:18:26 | nikos | fad: A lot of the existing apps aren't really worth porting because of there large storage and screen space requirements. |
| 14:18:36 | nikos | fad: I have no idea. |
| 14:18:48 | fad | yey, people will have to start coding efficently again |
| 14:19:11 | fad | oooo i'll tell him that theyve found a bug in the winCE restoration and it 'overburns' the flash memory so you cant reflash it and it dies. |
| 14:19:23 | fad | :. he has to let me buy him a new iPaq and i get the one with linux on it |
| 14:20:33 | nikos | I guess that's one way to do it. ;) |
| 14:21:17 | fad | nah, i'm nice to my parents |
| 14:21:36 | fad | i taught my mom email and internet explorer, when she'd only ever used a typwriter |
| 14:21:46 | fad | and i've installed my dad a beta of windows xp |
| 14:21:56 | fad | hmm, ok that sounds cruel but he wanted it |
| 14:22:18 | nikos | It's best to keep them happy I guess. ;) |
| 14:22:43 | fad | lol, and i have exams at the moment |
| 14:28:04 | nikos | cworth: You around? |
| 14:28:53 | cworth | yes |
| 14:30:30 | nikos | cworth: Is there a reason we structured the FTP so that the packages are in a seperate tree than the install? Currently you can't link to the "stable" install, just the packages. |
| 14:30:40 | nikos | cworth: The stable symlink should link higher in the tree. |
| 14:31:46 | nikos | In other words: We need to be able to link to something like http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/releases/stable/install/H3600/install.html |
| 14:32:20 | cworth | nikos: I think you're right. Talk to a7r. |
| 14:40:08 | nikos | argh, we've got multiple copies of the stable packages in the FTP. |
| 14:40:48 | cworth | washes his hands of all archive issues. :) |
| 14:42:01 | cworth | nikos: I've been treating the archive as accessbile only through the black box that is a7r@andern.org |
| 14:51:29 | cworth | murmurs something about vmware not dealing well with ion |
| 15:00:36 | nikos | cworth: When you said 'or perhaps use dpkg mostly unchanged' did you mean udpkg? |
| 15:01:48 | cworth | nikos: yes, of course. |
| 15:02:00 | nikos | Good, I was hoping so. ;) |
| 16:12:11 | nikos | edwardam: Have a problem with the / key? |
| 16:17:50 | edwardam | nikos: no ... just my fingers |
| 16:17:57 | nikos | :) |
| 17:27:24 | boodle | is away: lunch |
| 17:44:28 | boodle | is back (gone 00:17:05) |
| 18:40:59 | nikos | a7r: Firstly, we have more than one copy of some of the sets of packages. |
| 18:41:15 | a7r | yeah, that's fine. |
| 18:41:21 | nikos | a7r: Secondly, we need to be able to have a stable URL that we can use that will point to the installation stuff. |
| 18:41:47 | nikos | a7r: I realize the current status is the result of changing ideas a few times. |
| 18:42:42 | nikos | a7r: jamey said I could add to the hh install.html so that user's could choose to either install familiar or hh after using osloader to install the bootldr. |
| 18:42:56 | a7r | nikos: current situation is fine.. all that is required is a symlink called ``latest'' in releases.. which I just added. |
| 18:43:25 | a7r | the stable and unstable symlinks in releases are going to go away.. it's a stop gap so that people's ipkg.confs don't break.. they'll go away when I release v0.4.1 |
| 18:43:26 | cworth | a7r: nikos mentioned that install is outside of the release split... |
| 18:43:46 | a7r | how's that? |
| 18:43:59 | a7r | each release has their own install directory. |
| 18:44:13 | a7r | is back (gone 07:22:33) |
| 18:44:18 | nikos | bash$ ls -l releases/stable |
| 18:44:18 | nikos | lrwxrwxrwx 1 familiar familiar 15 May 18 11:10 releases/stable -> ../feeds/stable |
| 18:44:33 | cworth | a7r: OK, that's as it should be then. Maybe I misunderstood. |
| 18:45:43 | nikos | a7r: I'm way confused. |
| 18:45:52 | nikos | a7r: Are you saying you want it to stay like it currently is. |
| 18:45:58 | a7r | nikos: what's your issue w/ things? |
| 18:45:59 | nikos | a7r: Are that you are planning to redo it at some point? |
| 18:46:13 | nikos | s/Are/Or/ |
| 18:46:15 | a7r | All I'm planning on doing is removing the releases/{stable|unstable} symlinks. |
| 18:46:39 | nikos | a7r: Why wouldn't we always maintain stable/unstable symlinks? |
| 18:46:56 | a7r | nikos: because the concept doesn't exist for releases.. a release is inherently stable. |
| 18:47:15 | a7r | if you want a stable or unstable stream of packages, join the feed. |
| 18:47:28 | nikos | Let's use a different term than release then. Version? |
| 18:47:43 | nikos | Won't we always have links to stable and unstable version? |
| 18:47:44 | a7r | no.. it's a handoff to the outside world.. |
| 18:47:55 | a7r | there isn't going to be an unstable version. |
| 18:48:21 | a7r | any issues of stability should have been taken care of in the stable testing cycle. |
| 18:48:52 | nikos | I think you are saying that there will never be an unstable installation set right? (jffs2, instructions) |
| 18:49:40 | a7r | yup, that's what a release.. a set of install images, instructions, and packages that have gone through testing. |
| 18:49:46 | a7r | s/release/release is/ |
| 18:50:51 | a7r | the only feed I really see ever having its own set of install instructions and images would be unstable, if we want people to try somegthing really crazy. |
| 18:50:57 | nikos | #1 Shouldn't /home/ftp/pub/linux/dists/familiar/releases/v0.4/packages/ be trashed then? |
| 18:51:06 | a7r | why? |
| 18:51:07 | cworth | a7r: I think there could still be a place for a "latest" link within releases. |
| 18:51:08 | nikos | #2 Are we not going to maintain an unpacked/ directory? |
| 18:51:15 | a7r | cworth: there alreaady is one. |
| 18:51:42 | cworth | decides to keep quiet... |
| 18:51:43 | nikos | a7r: Because you have /home/ftp/pub/linux/dists/familiar/feeds/stable/packages/armv4l/ which is the same thing. |
| 18:52:04 | nikos | a7r: I would have though the feeds would link to the versions, rather than be copies. |
| 18:53:32 | a7r | nikos: a release's package set doesn't change. |
| 18:53:46 | a7r | v0.4 is v0.4 after 18 months, the stable feed could have new packages daily. |
| 19:13:01 | a7r | nikos: BTW, thanks for taking care of the guys w/ bootloader problems. |
| 19:14:45 | nikos | a7r: Sure, that's about the only kind of stuff I have much time for right now. Trying to get a mixer together but I haven't had more than an hour or so a day to dedicate to it. |
| 19:15:22 | edwardam | nikos: re: mixer ... wanna add something to pypaq.mp3 ? |
| 19:15:25 | nikos | is away: Service call... |
| 19:15:40 | edwardam | nikosAWAY: ahh talk later |
| 19:15:47 | nikosAWAY | edwardam: Doesn't already have volume control? |
| 19:16:01 | nikosAWAY | edwardam: I was thinking of making it sort embeddable or something. |
| 19:19:37 | Demonishi | cworth: You alive..? |
| 19:19:41 | boodle | edwardam: you really need to try my version.. it has one builtin |
| 19:20:19 | cworth | Demonishi: mostly... |
| 23:02:36 | nikos | is back |