| 00:03:27 | nailerr | ello again |
| 00:03:44 | nailerr | argh, I'll just quit before i make more mistakes here |
| 01:04:46 | nailerr | erm, is it possible to transfur files to the ipaq over serial without using this PPP (that just will not work for me ={ ) |
| 01:07:05 | jacques | nailerr: yes, using xmodem protocol |
| 01:08:06 | nailerr | oh, good.. I dont know why but i figured that'd fail (its been a long day =/) |
| 01:08:43 | jacques | nailerr: as long as you have rx on the ipaq, or rz for zmodem... |
| 01:08:43 | nailerr | I am getting hell from the ppp over serial right now, followed the text but somthing dosent seem right |
| 01:09:19 | nailerr | well, my ipaq is "as installed" with linux right now, cant get it onto the net to change it =) |
| 01:11:21 | nailerr | I'd like to send the bash package over to it you see... hm no Xmodem wont send. Even with RX open |
| 01:12:21 | jacques | try zmodem |
| 01:12:28 | jacques | see if you have rx or rz installed |
| 01:13:02 | nailerr | i have rz, on the ipaq. and using HyperTerm in windows to send |
| 01:16:13 | jacques | nailerr: oh, hyperterm...I'm not familiar with it - you may need t oconfigure it with the path to rz on the ipaq |
| 01:16:35 | jacques | nailerr: or maybe start the rz process before you start the send |
| 01:16:43 | nailerr | good idea |
| 01:17:16 | nailerr | i guess rz -Xbc would be an adiquet line on the ipaq to wait for a file? |
| 01:17:24 | nailerr | is going by --help here |
| 01:17:33 | jacques | nailerr: uh, sounds good to me :-) |
| 01:19:37 | nailerr | no =/ |
| 01:20:16 | nailerr | damn, this hasent been a very good afternoon |
| 01:21:02 | jacques | nailerr: I'm pretty sure you are close, I just haven't done it myself |
| 01:22:00 | nailerr | I'd hate to have to do a restore, especialy the riscy way =/ |
| 01:23:56 | nailerr | Oh |
| 01:23:59 | nailerr | Zmodem works |
| 01:24:15 | nailerr | that'll do =) |
| 01:25:00 | jacques | nailerr: I thought that's what you trie before? |
| 01:25:07 | nailerr | no, Xmodem |
| 01:25:16 | nailerr | as the install used Xmodem |
| 01:25:17 | jacques | rZ == Zmodem, rZ == Zmodem |
| 01:25:24 | jacques | rX == Xmodem |
| 01:25:39 | nailerr | rz -X = Xmodem protocall tho |
| 01:25:57 | jacques | nailerr: ah, ok, they must all be the same executable then |
| 01:26:10 | nailerr | =) |
| 01:26:13 | jacques | maybe your line is not 8bit clean or something and xmodem required that |
| 01:26:16 | nailerr | is FAR happier now |
| 01:26:23 | jacques | well congrats |
| 01:26:31 | nailerr | :D |
| 01:27:19 | nailerr | oh dear. my blood has gone orange. |
| 01:27:23 | nailerr | thats not normal |
| 01:28:42 | jacques | huh? |
| 01:29:19 | nailerr | bad cold, blown my nose so hard the inside bleeds ;( |
| 01:30:38 | nailerr | BASH! WOOHOO!!! |
| 01:33:23 | jacques | yes, that's a great thing to add |
| 01:34:21 | nailerr | ok, I'll be quiet :) |
| 01:34:57 | edwardam | with bash you may want to adjust some of the BASH variables so that (for instance) it saved history to directory in ramfs this way the history file is not constantly re-written to flash (causing new versions to be writen over and over again in jffs2) |
| 01:35:21 | nailerr | I dont think my CF card is in use at all at the moment |
| 01:36:27 | jacques | edwardam: good point, but doesn't it only write out the history when you exit the shell? |
| 01:37:01 | edwardam | jacques not sure.You'd have to look at the soure (I think you are right, just not 100% ;-) |
| 01:38:02 | edwardam | wow it's really storming here ... |
| 01:38:03 | jacques | edwardam: I think I have verified that by looking at timestamps on the .history file |
| 01:38:16 | jacques | edwardam: I belive tcsh is the same way |
| 01:39:57 | edwardam | is happy he finished his bike ride earlier .... |
| 01:40:32 | jacques | hmm, the weather is perfect here |
| 01:40:46 | | jacques: San Jose, San Jose International Airport, CA, United States; (KSJC) 37-21-33N 121-55-27W 25M; last updated: Jun 11, 2001 09:53 PM EDT; Dew Point: 46.9 F (8.3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.05 in. Hg (1017 hPa); Relative Humidity: 53%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 64.0 F (17.8 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the NNW (340 degrees) at 14 MPH (13 KT) |
| 01:40:46 | jacques | ibot: weather ksjc |
| 01:41:12 | jacques | the mostly cloudy is wrong |
| 01:44:10 | nailerr | where are you? |
| 01:44:47 | jacques | sunnyvale, CA |
| 01:45:21 | nailerr | ah, probably what, mid day for you now? |
| 01:46:45 | jacques | nailerr: actually 7:47pm |
| 01:47:03 | jacques | nailerr: sun is about 1 hour from sunse |
| 01:47:06 | jacques | sunset |
| 01:47:17 | nailerr | hm I wouldent mind that time about now, ment to be looking for work later today and its 4:30am now =/ |
| 01:56:12 | nailerr | see you all later, stay well =P |
| 02:02:20 | | edwardam: Newark, Newark International Airport, NJ, United States; (KEWR) 40-40-57N 074-10-10W 7M; last updated: Jun 11, 2001 10:51 PM EDT; Dew Point: 66.0 F (18.9 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.78 in. Hg (1008 hPa); Pressure tendency: rising rapidly - 0.02 inches (0.8 hPa) higher than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 71%; Sky conditions: mostly cloudy; Temperature: 75.9 F (24.4 C); Visibility: 7 mile(s); Weather: A trace; Wind: from the W (280 degrees) at 12 MPH (11 KT) |
| 02:02:20 | edwardam | ibot: weather kewr |
| 02:19:36 | edwardam | is away: ZzZzZz (Will expect kernel & source from france tommorow :-) |
| 05:48:32 | jacques | test |
| 11:33:21 | cworth | morning |
| 13:29:20 | nailerr | `noon |
| 13:29:32 | fad | lo |
| 13:29:45 | nikos | 'morn ;) |
| 13:30:09 | nailerr | had to restore CE last night, couldent for the life of me get ppp over serial |
| 13:30:37 | nailerr | glad to see it works tho, now i can swap between the 2 whenever =) |
| 13:30:50 | cworth | nailerr: sorry to hear that. I've never had PPP problems personally... |
| 13:31:08 | nailerr | I'm just new to this kind of connecting, cworth |
| 13:31:18 | nailerr | always time to try again |
| 13:31:53 | cworth | nailerr: that's cool. And I want to make this all more automatic too, (a bit tougher on the host side though...) |
| 13:32:54 | nailerr | there was a niggle with the rewince-z.sh however, it wanted a link to /bin/rz for rzcat-pipe. but the Familiar 4 has rz onlt in /usr/bin |
| 13:33:41 | boodle | is away: compiling kernel |
| 13:38:06 | nailerr | btw, not that I have bad eyes (not at all) but the test ix rather unreadable, is there any more comprehensive help files about? |
| 13:43:26 | nailerr | just the familiar homepage is a bit bland for info |
| 13:49:20 | boodle | is back (gone 00:15:40) |
| 13:50:02 | boodle | can someone do me a quick favor and cat me the contents of /etc/rc2.d/S98 |
| 13:52:06 | boodle | nevermind |
| 13:55:39 | Jogu | hi |
| 13:55:43 | nikos | Hello |
| 13:56:58 | nailerr | eloha |
| 13:57:26 | Jogu | don't suppose anyone has a thread aware gdb that'll run on a familiar ipaq? |
| 13:59:09 | Jogu | or how to get it to mount an nfs mount for that matter? I can't find a package with portmap in it |
| 13:59:22 | nailerr | not me, I was overwhelmed to get bash working.. so you can guess how usfull I can be ;) |
| 13:59:24 | nikos | mount -o nolock |
| 13:59:30 | nikos | You don't need portma |
| 13:59:33 | nikos | portmap |
| 13:59:38 | Jogu | ahh right, thanks |
| 14:00:20 | nikos | Jogu: I would like at Intimate which uses Debian ARM. |
| 14:00:26 | | somebody said intimate was http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/IntimateDistribution |
| 14:00:26 | nikos | ibot: intimate? |
| 14:00:35 | nailerr | god yeah I wanna try intimate =) |
| 14:00:39 | | nikos: I forgot intimate |
| 14:00:39 | nikos | ibot forget intimate |
| 14:00:53 | | OK, nikos. |
| 14:00:53 | nikos | ibot: intimate is <reply> You want http://intimate.handhelds.org |
| 14:00:57 | Jogu | nikos> for a version of gdb you mean? |
| 14:00:59 | | i don't know, nikos |
| 14:00:59 | nikos | ibot: initimate? |
| 14:01:04 | | You want http://intimate.handhelds.org |
| 14:01:04 | nikos | ibot: intimate? |
| 14:01:34 | nikos | Jogu: I can't say you would find it there, but you would likely need a distribution like Intimate anyway, and that is a good place to look. |
| 14:01:52 | Jogu | nods at nikos |
| 14:02:11 | Jogu | I can't get a thread aware gdb for the netwinder with debian/stable on it either, but that's another issue... |
| 14:02:17 | nailerr | somone dcc me a microdrive please :P |
| 14:02:27 | nikos | nailerr: Or NFS |
| 14:03:05 | nailerr | well, i'd rather use it away from my desk ;) |
| 14:03:32 | nikos | Wireless |
| 14:03:35 | nikos | :p |
| 14:05:19 | nailerr | that too would be fab |
| 14:05:44 | nailerr | as it stands i *just* afforded the cf sleeve to use my old jornada's cf card =P |
| 14:05:58 | cworth | nikos: there is a gdb package in familiar, (unstable most likely). It's not that large, (and I don't know if it is thread-aware or not). |
| 14:06:12 | Jogu | nailerr> did you get linux to run on the jornada? |
| 14:06:39 | nailerr | fraid not, my jornada is dead. HP murderd it when it got sent for repair >=/ |
| 14:07:03 | nikos | cworth: Good point. I guess I'm assuming more of a development environment would also be desired, but maybe not. |
| 14:07:04 | Jogu | nail> bummer :-( |
| 14:07:24 | nailerr | i sent it in to have a flickering screen fixed, 2 WEEKS later they phoned me to say no repair, I shatterd the screen. |
| 14:07:27 | Jogu | nikos> nah, I literally want just gdb.. already got crosscompilers & stuff |
| 14:07:52 | nailerr | absoloute S***. I sent it packaged in thier own boxing for one.. |
| 14:08:21 | nailerr | it had 2 minor scratches when i posted it, nothing more.. So I just kinda gave up on it and got an ipaq |
| 14:08:33 | nikos | Jogu: Then as cworth points out, there is an unstable gdb package for FAmiliar. |
| 14:08:42 | Jogu | cworth> ipkg can't see a gdb package, any ideas what I've not done? |
| 14:08:55 | nikos | Jogu: Are you pointed at the unstable feed? |
| 14:09:03 | Jogu | no.. |
| 14:09:42 | nikos | Jogu: You will have to edit your /etc/ipkg.conf to point it to the unstable feed. |
| 14:13:46 | Jogu | nikos> ah, yeah, it's getting gdb now. thanks. |
| 14:15:05 | nikos | Sure |
| 14:16:28 | Jogu | oo, that gdb copes with threads. excellent! |
| 14:16:47 | nikos | Really? Excellent. |
| 14:17:32 | cworth | nikos: well, I meant a gdb package in the unstable feed of familiar, but close enough. :) |
| 14:17:54 | nikos | cworth: Huh? Where did I contradict that? |
| 14:19:01 | cworth | nikos: no worries. (just that "unstable gdb package" suggests something different than gdb package in "unstable feed"). Feel free to ignore me. |
| 14:19:19 | nikos | cworth: I see. Semantics... ;) |
| 14:21:00 | Jogu | is it possible to dump the entire flash of my ipaq running familiar so I can dump it onto another one that's running the handheld distribution v0.19 or so? |
| 14:21:45 | Jogu | or basically any way to get familiar onto an ipaq with linux without having to program the bootldr/kernel/rootimage over the serial port? |
| 14:22:18 | Jogu | nikos> that -o nolock thing worked too, thanks again :-) |
| 14:36:16 | Jogu | is there a dual pcmcia jacket that works with linux yet? |
| 14:36:41 | nikos | Jogu: Not sure, send email to ipaq@handhelds.org |
| 14:37:55 | Jogu | nods |
| 14:43:34 | Jogu | why does sshing to the ipaq gives 'Disconnecting: Bad packet length 1349676916.'? |
| 14:44:59 | nikos | Jogu: You might need to update your PCs ssh to latest OpenSSH version. |
| 14:46:00 | Jogu | it's openssh-1.2.3 from debian stable |
| 14:47:47 | vorteX | hi all |
| 14:48:38 | nikos | Hello |
| 14:49:20 | nikos | Jogu: Are you absolutely sure that that is the version that is running? That sure seems like it should be OK. |
| 14:49:49 | Jogu | nikos> it works ok with an ssh client with sshv2 support |
| 14:49:51 | nikos | Well, maybe not. |
| 14:49:59 | nikos | ken@linux:~/projects/website$ ssh -V |
| 14:49:59 | nikos | SSH Version OpenSSH_2.2.0p1, protocol versions 1.5/2.0. |
| 14:49:59 | nikos | Compiled with SSL (0x0090600f). |
| 14:50:02 | nikos | What version is that? |
| 14:50:20 | Jogu | 2.3.0p1 is the one I've got here that works. |
| 14:50:27 | nikos | I see. |
| 14:51:08 | Jogu | ah, hmm, there's no sshv1 host key on the ipaq |
| 15:02:41 | vorteX | blackbox? |
| 15:02:52 | | vortex: bugger all, i dunno |
| 15:02:52 | vorteX | ibot : blackbox? |
| 15:03:21 | vorteX | mmm, i thought it to be the window mgr of choice |
| 15:04:40 | fad | likes ion |
| 15:05:21 | nikos | vorteX: Blackbox is the WM in v0.4, it will be changing to Ion with v0.5 I believe. |
| 15:05:36 | fad | :) |
| 15:05:37 | fad | cool |
| 15:05:49 | vorteX | thx, and where is the Ion site ? |
| 15:05:52 | fad | which launcher will be used |
| 15:06:00 | | ion is a keyboard-friendly window manager with no overlapping windows: http://www.students.tut.fi/~tuomov/ion/ |
| 15:06:00 | fad | ibot:ion? |
| 15:06:03 | cworth | fad: get coding |
| 15:06:08 | cworth | fad: :) |
| 15:06:17 | fad | cworth: there is one around though |
| 15:06:26 | fad | cworth: pylau |
| 15:06:32 | fad | cworth: um whatever its called now |
| 15:06:37 | cworth | as of this morning's hacking ion also supports RandR in a rudimentary way. |
| 15:06:43 | cworth | fad: yes, foal |
| 15:06:53 | fad | is it sensible to use a launcher coded in pythone though? |
| 15:07:38 | fad | surely c/c++ would be better for something used so often? |
| 15:07:39 | cworth | fad: what I mean to say is that every available launcher will probably be included in familiar. |
| 15:07:52 | vorteX | is that because the blackbox author is joining trolltech? |
| 15:08:31 | fad | no - IMHO its because overlapping windows are unnecsary on such a small screen |
| 15:08:44 | fad | and ion doesnt let windows use more space than is avaialbe |
| 15:08:52 | fad | it makes xmame and doom so much easier to run |
| 15:09:04 | fad | but im cluless so dont trust me |
| 15:09:18 | vorteX | no i can see your point.... |
| 15:09:24 | cworth | fad: yes, also ion doesn't let windows use less screen than available either. ;) |
| 15:09:35 | fad | ah, yeh |
| 15:09:52 | fad | cworth: is a new version of ion available now? |
| 15:09:56 | cworth | fad: except for those silly "<empty frame>"s which I am trying to eliminate... |
| 15:10:16 | fad | cworth: i hate them |
| 15:10:50 | fad | are new version of ipkg and ion now available? |
| 15:10:52 | vorteX | aah, so basically it's got windows selector goodies at the top? |
| 15:10:53 | cworth | fad: almost. it might revert away some of my original changes, (but it will add the input hint work so that virtual keyboards will work much more nicely). |
| 15:11:19 | fad | original changes? |
| 15:11:22 | vorteX | is scanning his brain for "window selector goodie" terminology |
| 15:11:23 | cworth | fad: soon. |
| 15:11:47 | fad | oh god that was scary |
| 15:12:07 | fad | i just turned off my monitor by accidentally turning off the plug(uk plug sockets have switches) with my foot |
| 15:12:12 | fad | thank god it wasnt my cpu |
| 15:12:45 | fad | cworth: how soon, ie. should i install QT first, and wait until new version available before installing x? |
| 15:13:20 | vorteX | i've got the same dilemma |
| 15:13:26 | fad | :) |
| 15:13:26 | cworth | fad: can't tell you that... but I *hope* to have them both out today. As always, no guarantees. |
| 15:13:33 | fad | sweet |
| 15:13:46 | fad | well i've tried x with blackbox and ion |
| 15:13:56 | fad | and i've just been 'using' pocket windows |
| 15:14:03 | fad | so i guess i'll try qt now |
| 15:14:06 | vorteX | fad : what did you think about it...? |
| 15:14:12 | fad | pocket wiundows? |
| 15:14:29 | fad | it was slow, you couldnt close apps(sounds like ion really) and there was no software |
| 15:14:30 | vorteX | no bb & ion |
| 15:14:45 | fad | oh ok, i prefered ion cos it let me run xmame and quake |
| 15:15:04 | vorteX | yea, but how about any PIM apps? |
| 15:15:15 | fad | there is no difference |
| 15:15:18 | vorteX | even if it's just contacts |
| 15:15:21 | fad | mingle runs in ion or black box |
| 15:15:27 | fad | i was using it in ion |
| 15:15:55 | vorteX | oh ok. can mingle read vcards or exported outlook contacts ? |
| 15:16:16 | fad | i dont believe so |
| 15:16:25 | fad | what pim software is avaible for blackbox that isnt for ion though? |
| 15:16:26 | vorteX | (like syncml...) |
| 15:16:49 | vorteX | wonders if syncml can run on the ipaq |
| 15:16:59 | fad | i dont know it - compile it :) |
| 15:17:36 | vorteX | mmm, i used linux briefly, then re-installed pocketlinux, i'm a coward! |
| 15:17:44 | vorteX | but now i'm back |
| 15:18:21 | vorteX | even if i have to use "grep contactname contact.txt" ! :) |
| 15:21:50 | fad | :) |
| 15:22:03 | fad | vortex: what did you actually use on pocket linux? |
| 15:23:01 | vorteX | i used one of the first handheld distros... |
| 15:23:14 | vorteX | what do you mean by "launcher?" |
| 15:30:33 | vorteX | hey nikos, when is the latest familiar release due ? |
| 15:30:53 | nikos | Whenever a7r wants to release it. |
| 15:31:11 | nikos | I think he's aiming to have v0.5 out within a week or so. |
| 15:31:11 | fad | anyone here work for compaq? |
| 15:31:19 | nikos | fad: What do you need? |
| 15:31:23 | vorteX | thanku |
| 15:31:26 | fad | curious |
| 15:31:31 | fad | um |
| 15:31:38 | nikos | fad: Not that I work for Compaq. |
| 15:31:51 | nikos | fad: But someone else might be able to answer your question if you can be more specific. ;) |
| 15:32:03 | nikos | fad: There are Compaq guys that hang out sometimes, I can say that. |
| 15:32:08 | fad | cool |
| 15:32:28 | fad | nikos: cheapest way to get my wireless lan card hooked up to my network by plugging some device into my existing network sockets |
| 15:32:50 | fad | they need to be able to tcpip and i need to be able to connect to open ports on the wireless network from the wired |
| 15:32:57 | nikos | fad: Access Points are coming down, see SMC and D-Link devices. |
| 15:32:59 | mallum | fad: get a couple of wireless cards and a pcmcia->isa adaptor |
| 15:33:23 | fad | nikos: thx |
| 15:33:38 | fad | mallum: thx |
| 15:34:51 | fad | bbiab |
| 15:35:01 | vorteX | nikos do you mean the prices are coming down ? |
| 15:35:07 | nikos | vorteX: Yes. |
| 15:35:19 | fad | nikos: how much to serial cables cost |
| 15:35:29 | fad | nikos: cables, not cradles |
| 15:35:31 | nikos | fad: Ipaq serial cable? |
| 15:35:34 | fad | yep |
| 15:35:39 | nikos | fad: About $50 I think. |
| 15:35:47 | fad | darn |
| 15:35:52 | fad | can i make my own? |
| 15:35:57 | nikos | Yes. |
| 15:36:01 | fad | wiki |
| 15:36:11 | | fad: huh? |
| 15:36:11 | fad | ibot: cables |
| 15:36:14 | | somebody said cable was at ... before http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/Cable1.jpg and after... http://ipaq.secret.org.uk/Cable2.jpg |
| 15:36:14 | fad | ibot: cable? |
| 15:36:19 | | nikos: no idea |
| 15:36:19 | nikos | ibot: serial cable? |
| 15:36:19 | | wish i knew, fad |
| 15:36:19 | fad | ibot: serial cable? |
| 15:36:37 | | nikos: i haven't a clue |
| 15:36:37 | nikos | ibot: serial cradle? |
| 15:36:41 | | i haven't a clue, nikos |
| 15:36:41 | nikos | ibot: cradle? |
| 15:36:45 | | i don't know, nikos |
| 15:36:45 | nikos | ibot: modified cradle? |
| 15:37:11 | | OK, nikos. |
| 15:37:11 | nikos | ibot: modified cradle is at http://handhelds.org/minihowto/h3600-serial-cable.html |
| 15:37:12 | fad | nikos: its ok, its just i need a portable one to stick in my backpack with my ipaq and gps |
| 15:37:27 | nikos | fad: See that URL. |
| 15:37:55 | fad | thx |
| 15:38:05 | nikos | fad: I don't know how to tell you to find the ends to connect to the ipaq. |
| 15:38:11 | fad | ok np |
| 15:38:21 | fad | did i read on ng about discount cables? |
| 15:38:56 | fad | bbiab, finding socket and installing ae and qpe |
| 15:59:24 | fad | anyone managed to install qt on ipaq? |
| 16:14:41 | nikos | cworth: Seen the Enchantment Window Manager? |
| 16:14:48 | vorteX | no, but i'm thinking of installing familiar + ion tonight.... |
| 16:15:08 | cworth | nikos: no. URL? |
| 16:15:09 | | OK, nikos. |
| 16:15:09 | nikos | ibot: enchantment is at http://albireo.mit.edu/enchantment.html |
| 16:54:00 | cworth | BZFlag: hi Tim! |
| 17:04:50 | cworth | BZFlag, nikos: thanks for the pointers. I had never looked closer at the links page since I thought it was all just datasheets. |
| 17:04:58 | cworth | oops |
| 17:57:50 | jg | ibit:seen a7r? |
| 17:57:59 | | a7r was last seen on #ipaq 9 minutes and 49 seconds ago, saying: pergj: do you have an iPAQ? [Tue Jun 12 18:48:10 2001] |
| 17:57:59 | jg | ibot: seen a7r? |
| 17:58:19 | cworth | jg: he's been around, just stepped AFK a few seconds ago though. |
| 17:58:21 | gjg | morning. |
| 17:58:29 | cworth | jg: hi, BTW. |
| 17:58:38 | jg | hi. |
| 17:58:48 | gjg | cworth: hey |
| 17:59:25 | cworth | gjg: hi |
| 17:59:55 | nelson | cworth: Upgrading foal from 0.6 to 0.4 |
| 18:00:12 | cworth | nelson: heh :) |
| 18:00:17 | nelson | Since when is gong from 0.6 to 0.4 an upgrade? |
| 18:00:40 | gjg | nelson: its part of the censorship code cworth added to ipkg. |
| 18:00:49 | gjg | cworth aka ipkg big brother. |
| 18:01:33 | cworth | nelson: ipkg trusts the maintainer of the package repository. :) |
| 18:01:58 | a7r | yeah.. and the maintainer is a bastard. |
| 18:03:39 | gjg | I hate that guy. |
| 18:03:58 | gjg | lying, sneaky, manipulitive. |
| 18:04:02 | gjg | cant spell. |
| 18:06:38 | nelson | points fingers at everyone in site. |
| 18:06:38 | a7r | Okay.. Wez' control file is jacked. |
| 18:06:57 | a7r | nelson: I just fixed it, and bumped it up to v0.6-2.. |
| 18:06:57 | nelson | s/site/sight/ Spell checking f's up again. |
| 18:07:31 | a7r | cworth: I'm gonna need to add some sanity checking to ipkg-make-index.. damn rogue packages. |
| 18:08:23 | a7r | nelson: did you see what I just said about it? |
| 18:08:26 | cworth | a7r: nod. It'd be nice if that program pruned duplicates, (and did real version comparison). You can bang something out in python if you want. |
| 18:08:42 | a7r | cworth: not a bad idea. |
| 18:08:46 | a7r | OKay.. I'm really out now.. BBL. |
| 18:08:52 | cworth | a7r: bye. |
| 18:10:49 | cworth | nelson: you could elimnate the lie from ipkg if you replaced "upgrade" with "install-if-different". That's what it currently does, (but it will be a real upgrade someday so I'm using that name already). |
| 18:54:50 | nailerr | Afternoon |
| 19:23:55 | nailerr | Argh, somone please point me to a site with usfull info past installation. I cant find anything usfull to read, I hear some "wikki" site has info... anyone? |
| 19:24:30 | | somebody said wiki was a community editable website hosting a collection of useful, linux on handheld documents and can be found at http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki |
| 19:24:30 | nikos | ibot: wiki |
| 19:25:37 | | nailerr: huh? |
| 19:25:37 | nailerr | ibot, cheerz too. before u left =) |
| 19:26:43 | | nikos: de rien |
| 19:26:43 | nikos | ibot: Thanks! |
| 19:27:04 | | OK, nikos. |
| 19:27:04 | nikos | ibot: cheerz is <reply> Not a problem. |
| 19:27:12 | | nikos: huh? |
| 19:27:12 | nikos | ibot, cheerz too. before u left =) |
| 19:27:20 | nailerr | heh |
| 19:27:21 | | nikos: excuse me? |
| 19:27:21 | nikos | ibot, cheerz too. before u left =) |
| 19:27:24 | nikos | Oh well. |
| 19:27:29 | | Not a problem. |
| 19:27:29 | nikos | ibot: cheerz |
| 19:27:41 | nailerr | nice, a kinda HAL? |
| 19:28:43 | nikos | Eh, mostly just a key,value database. |
| 19:29:30 | nailerr | ohwell. So the built in fonts are supposed to be antialiased? But their still so hard to read somtimes =/ |
| 19:29:37 | nailerr | and I do have ver good eyes |
| 19:30:20 | nikos | That's still a work in progress. There is information in the fonts that is necessary to do that well and most fonts don't have it. It's called hinting. |
| 19:30:31 | nikos | nailerr: Get the postinst package and run ~/postinst |
| 19:30:50 | nikos | nailerr: That will download some M$ fonts for you. Of course a net connection is required. |
| 19:31:09 | nailerr | thats the unfortunate bit =/ |
| 19:31:43 | nailerr | I had a good go at a PPP over serial howto, it went well to a point that i used DUN to "dial" the ipaq, it awnserd but just chucked down modem strings |
| 19:32:39 | nailerr | Admitidly I was damn knackerd, but I intend to try again after much document reading (after finding ofc) |
| 19:32:59 | nailerr | and just to serve a purpous, I'll sit ere incase I can help anyone with a resore or somthing :) |
| 19:33:16 | nikos | Cool |
| 19:33:29 | nikos | nailerr: People with problems tend to go to #ipaq or #handhelds.org though. |
| 19:33:34 | nailerr | seeing as the "new" rewince-z.sh dosent work out the box on familiar 0.4 |
| 19:33:45 | nailerr | ok, I'll shit to em later on.. reading atm |
| 19:33:58 | nailerr | eh, do it now i spose |
| 19:35:22 | nailerr | the script trys to download the windows rom images via a symlink to /bin/rz, familiar4 didnt put it there tho =P |
| 19:35:51 | nikos | nailerr: Did you send email to ipaq@ with a bug report? |
| 19:36:15 | nailerr | nej, i was shatterd by 6am |
| 19:36:28 | nailerr | however I will do, should of thought of that |
| 19:36:59 | nailerr | its manualy fixable as i said, incase of pre update emergencys ;) |
| 19:37:01 | nikos | That would be great, will probably lead to it being fixed quickly. |
| 19:37:33 | nailerr | ok I'll do it now |
| 19:37:56 | nikos | Thanks |
| 20:00:15 | tvraman | some of you helped me on the email list -thanks! still got some questions+ |
| 20:00:31 | nikos | Hey tvraman |
| 20:00:32 | tvraman | q: does familiar turn off the telnet service by default?+ |
| 20:00:40 | nikos | There is no telnetd period. |
| 20:00:46 | tvraman | Someone pointed me at rxvt --but rxvt is a client --+ |
| 20:00:46 | nikos | We only use sshd. |
| 20:00:46 | nailerr | telnet is evil. |
| 20:00:59 | nikos | tvraman: There is no FTPD either, see scp. |
| 20:01:03 | nailerr | rxvt is just an xterm, i think.. |
| 20:01:08 | tvraman | given that I have no ethernet working, my only recourse is to connect to the IPAQ over PPP from my desktop--+ |
| 20:01:11 | nikos | exactly. Not the same issue. |
| 20:01:14 | nailerr | nikos, SFTP work tho, wont it? |
| 20:01:17 | tvraman | and that is the mode where I'm not able to connect. |
| 20:01:19 | nikos | tvraman: What card? |
| 20:01:27 | nikos | nailerr: maybe |
| 20:01:45 | nikos | tvraman: There is also USBnet. |
| 20:02:09 | tvraman | what card: NETDEV WATCHDOG: eth0: transmit timed out eth0: Transmit timed out! irq status 0808, rx status 0808, tx status 08, tx free 0808 diagnostics: fifo 0808 net 0808 ethernet 0808 media 0808 eth0: command 0x5800 did not complete! |
| 20:02:23 | nikos | Manufacturer and Model? |
| 20:02:26 | tvraman | what is USBnet --apologies for sounding clueless. |
| 20:02:31 | | usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking |
| 20:02:31 | nikos | ibot: usbnet? |
| 20:02:32 | tvraman | 3com |
| 20:02:37 | nikos | 589? |
| 20:04:05 | tvraman | think so --let me check. |
| 20:04:28 | nikos | tvraman: I don't believe the 3c589 will work. Do you have another one? Maybe an NE2000 generic? |
| 20:04:39 | tvraman | I have USB working on my own desktop-- but the machine to which the IPAQ is plugged doesn't have usb support --and I dont have the freedom to upgrade that machine. |
| 20:05:17 | tvraman | dont think I have an ne2000 generic. Have an aeronet card --but am not too optimistic of that working. Only thing that I have is a microdrive that works. |
| 20:05:35 | nikos | tvraman: My suggestion would be to at least try any other cards you have. |
| 20:05:58 | tvraman | we tried a 3c 589 and 3c 574 no luck. |
| 20:06:05 | nikos | tvraman: Then fail back to PPP I guess. I haven't set it up, but there should be people here or in #handhelds.org or #ipaq who could help. |
| 20:06:12 | nikos | tvraman: Same sorts of errors with the 574? |
| 20:06:17 | tvraman | returning to the simple question first --at least before familiar I could telnet over PPP now nothing. |
| 20:06:26 | nikos | tvraman: There is no telnet. |
| 20:06:30 | nikos | tvraman: CAn you ping? |
| 20:06:33 | tvraman | yes --same errors with both 3c 574 and 3c589 |
| 20:07:05 | nikos | tvraman: To get a terminal type connection over IP with familiar you have to make sure sshd is setup and running on the ipaq and use a recent openssh ssh client. |
| 20:07:17 | nailerr | man i am so sleepy, time to go |
| 20:07:19 | nailerr | later |
| 20:07:31 | tvraman | right now no --but that may be because the ipaq set up is broken or it is turned off --it's sitting in a colleague's office because he can see and I cant --and right now he doesn't seem to be in his office. |
| 20:07:42 | nikos | Ah OK. |
| 20:08:39 | tvraman | the ssh is yet another problem. As I said my own desktop machine is fully configured --my friends machine not so well so --so ssh was what I went looking for when I saw the replies on the list --alas no ssh on that linux box my friend has the IPAQ hooked to. |
| 20:09:16 | nikos | tvraman: Yeah, I'm afraid you won't have much luck without ssh right now. We had to make some decisions to make room and ssh seemed like the right choice. |
| 20:09:35 | nikos | tvraman: Removed telnetd and ftpd gave us room for other stuff. |
| 20:09:45 | nikos | 'Removing' I mean |
| 20:10:46 | nikos | tvraman: Do you also have a shark? |
| 20:13:45 | tvraman | I have a shark which is even more broken --another sad gripe for another day:-) It's running some bizarrely unmaintainable hotch-potch of debian |
| 20:14:39 | tvraman | agree that long term ssh is a good choice. But this is all still evolving (revlving?) and you could make life a little easier by at least allowing users some choice. |
| 20:14:46 | nikos | tvraman: I know the feeling. I will hopefully be working with edwardam soon to try to improve the shark situation. |
| 20:15:17 | nikos | tvraman: We have packages now. Someone would just need to make appropriate ftpd and telnetd packages. |
| 20:15:31 | tvraman | Yes --Jim pointed me at Eduardo as well --haven't heard anything other than he hopes to have something in a few days. Let's fix all this before we all end up wincing with pain --wince --ouch! |
| 20:15:49 | nikos | Heh |
| 20:16:32 | nikos | tvraman: If you felt like it I suspect you could scavenge telnetd or ftpd from either an old handhelds.org distribution set or on of the skiffcluster system. |
| 20:16:47 | nikos | tvraman: And of course you zmodem to get them transferred over. |
| 20:16:56 | tvraman | but you dont understand --this is achicken and egg problem. |
| 20:16:56 | nikos | tvraman: There maybe libc version problems though. |
| 20:17:21 | nikos | tvraman: You can always step back to serial and zmodem can't you? |
| 20:17:25 | a7r | hey.. |
| 20:17:28 | nikos | Hey a7r |
| 20:17:31 | tvraman | xmodem was what we used to get the bootloader and stuff on there --incidentally each time it complained on the last block according to my friend-- |
| 20:17:41 | a7r | tvraman: I just saw your mail to the list. |
| 20:17:44 | nikos | tvraman: Now that you have it installed, the ipaq has both rz and sz. |
| 20:18:05 | tvraman | what is rz and sc? |
| 20:18:16 | nikos | tvraman: recieve zmodem and send zmodem. |
| 20:18:20 | nikos | err receive |
| 20:18:31 | tvraman | ah yes --reminds me of old kermit days. |
| 20:18:55 | tvraman | wish I could chase down the friend in whose office the IPAQ is sitting while you guys are around to help --alas no such luck-- not my day! |
| 20:19:38 | nikos | tvraman: Yeah, a7r can help and he is likely to be here for many hours yet. I can usually be found here 8:30 AM - 5:30 PM CST. |
| 20:20:09 | tvraman | okay --will hang around here for a while --and ping when my friend shows up in his office. |
| 20:20:10 | nikos | tvraman: Not too mention many others. |
| 20:20:49 | tvraman | yes --and with the speech-enabled emacs irc client it's a pleasure once against to use chat --one day we'll have all this working on the IPAQ --but boy does that seem far away right now. |
| 20:21:23 | a7r | tvraman: hmm? |
| 20:21:54 | nikos | tvraman: Does that work well for you? |
| 20:22:09 | tvraman | hmm == hidden markov models:-) |
| 20:22:29 | a7r | hah |
| 20:22:54 | tvraman | nikos --were you refering to emacs when you said "does it work well for you?" --I live in emacs. |
| 20:23:10 | nikos | tvraman: Specifically the text to speech conversion in the context of IRC. |
| 20:23:29 | a7r | tvraman: are you using zenirc? |
| 20:23:42 | nikos | tvraman: I've been a little reluctant to use some of the IRC formulations that I normally use, for fear that they wouldn't translate well. |
| 20:24:24 | tvraman | only after you speech-enable an irc client --otherwise you hear too much chatter. I added smarts to erc for room monitor --setting up people watch lists etc --now I have chat sessions up on eper frame --can set each to monitor specific people --and amazingly enough get real work done in addition to yakking. |
| 20:25:03 | nikos | amazing |
| 20:25:04 | tvraman | ps I'm using erc. there is a speech-enabled emacspeak extension for zenirc as well --but I decided on erc since it appeared newer. |
| 20:25:14 | a7r | nod. |
| 20:25:53 | tvraman | also for the irc formulations --use them --over time I'll add them to emacspeak's irc pronounce dictionary and it should all work. interesting compression scheme :-) you type afaik --and emacspeak says "as far as I know" |
| 20:26:01 | nikos | OK. ;) |
| 20:26:30 | nikos | tvraman: How about things like Perl substitutions for misspelling and miswordings? |
| 20:29:19 | tvraman | didn't know that perl had mispellings --doesn't perl compile and run every random possible combination of chars? |
| 20:29:53 | nikos | Heh. Not quite what I meant. But more or less true. |
| 20:29:56 | tvraman | seriously though I hack perl5 heavily -and I have cperl-mode speech-enabled --so it does voice locking auto completion --all the wizardry you expect of emacs. |
| 20:30:08 | nikos | Interesting. |
| 20:55:14 | | packages is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/Packages |
| 20:55:14 | vorteX | ibot: packages? |
| 20:55:28 | nikos | Not a good answer ibot |
| 20:55:32 | vorteX | mmm, i was thinking _stable_ |
| 20:55:38 | | nikos: i don't know |
| 20:55:38 | nikos | ibot: stable packages? |
| 20:55:42 | | i guess stable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/stable/packages/armv4l |
| 20:55:42 | nikos | ibot: stable feed? |
| 20:55:50 | vorteX | better :) |
| 20:55:57 | | OK, nikos. |
| 20:55:57 | nikos | ibot: stable packages is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/stable/packages/armv4l |
| 20:56:02 | | unstable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 20:56:02 | nikos | ibot: unstable feed |
| 20:56:06 | tvraman | by the way, where is the cvs repos for the familiar apps like the calendar etc? |
| 20:56:20 | | OK, nikos. |
| 20:56:20 | nikos | ibot: unstable packages is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 20:56:52 | nikos | tvraman: There is for some things. |
| 20:57:13 | nikos | tvraman: Keep in mind that large parts of familiar are descendants of Debian ARM packages. |
| 20:57:23 | nikos | tvraman: See http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/ |
| 20:57:28 | | nikos: I forgot packages |
| 20:57:28 | nikos | ibot: forget packages |
| 20:58:13 | | OK, nikos. |
| 20:58:13 | nikos | ibot: packages is <reply> You can find Familiar v0.4 packages at ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/dists/familiar/releases/v0.4/packages/armv4l/ |
| 20:58:13 | tvraman | looking at the url you me pointed me at --thanks. |
| 20:58:40 | tvraman | nikos --do you know why the 3com cards dont work? |
| 20:59:13 | nikos | tvraman: Some do. Others seem to require some Plug and Play support or something. |
| 21:01:10 | nikos | tvraman: Although I'm hard pressed to produce a list of working 3COM cards now. I could be wrong. |
| 21:01:48 | tvraman | bizarre. pcmcia cards have been a breeze now on linux for so long that it's sad that the ipaq has so much trouble with them. |
| 21:03:20 | nikos | tvraman: We haven't been very good yet at maintaining a list of supported hardware and outstanding issues. You might want to send a query to the lists about this issue. |
| 21:03:47 | nikos | tvraman: For what it's worth, Familiar does maintain a GNATS database now also. |
| 21:04:08 | nikos | tvraman: Not very many developers are looking at it yet though, so it is a good idea to also send to the lists. |
| 21:08:23 | tvraman | things like gnats etc --WWW things in general that are PHP heavy typically throw me off --so I'll stay away. |
| 21:08:48 | a7r | tvraman: it's almost plaintext based.. |
| 21:08:57 | a7r | GNATS itself is just a collection of email. |
| 21:10:04 | a7r | tvraman: an/linux-vr/fonts/screenshots/ |
| 21:10:06 | a7r | er.. |
| 21:10:08 | nikos | tvraman: It's actually Python. Not that it matters. |
| 21:10:15 | a7r | tvraman: http://familiar.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/wwwgnats.pl/quick?quickfmt=regular&Person=any |
| 21:10:24 | a7r | nikos: what is Python? |
| 21:10:33 | nikos | a7r: GNATS. Isn't it? |
| 21:10:37 | a7r | no.. it's perl. |
| 21:10:43 | nikos | a7r: Oops. My mistake. |
| 21:10:55 | nikos | I guess I'm think of MailMan |
| 21:12:33 | tvraman | perl or python --my problem is not with the language php, perl or python. basically all the script language generated sites excessively abuse nested tables and it becomes a pain to navigate. Also, turn a nice thing like threaded mail discussions into a WWW page might be fine for a windows-impaired user who knows no better --but for someone who grew up on emacs vm and gnus, it's a return to the dark ages. |
| 21:13:33 | a7r | tvraman: did you look at that GNATS URL I just pasted? it doesn't have a single table. |
| 21:13:42 | a7r | the only active elements are links. |
| 21:13:44 | nikos | tvraman: I think the GNATS html should be OK. |
| 21:14:05 | nikos | a7r: Aren't email reports also an option? |
| 21:14:10 | tvraman | wow --thanks for the quick reassurance am pointing my browser at it now. |
| 21:14:36 | a7r | nikos: yup, but I don't externally expor them.. you can log them that way, though. |
| 21:15:07 | tvraman | gnats page is fine --it's a preformatted table --but it at least draws quickly. |
| 21:15:08 | nikos | tvraman: You might also look at the documentation. You should be able to submit reports via email. |
| 21:15:15 | nikos | a7r: What's the email address? |
| 21:15:17 | tvraman | email submission is nice. |
| 21:15:25 | a7r | familiar-bugs@ IIRC |
| 21:15:36 | nikos | Sounds right. |
| 21:15:40 | nikos | familiar-bugs@handhelds.org |
| 21:15:54 | tvraman | yes --that does sound familiar. |
| 21:16:02 | nikos | :p |
| 21:23:00 | vorteX | hey, where is <uptime> ? |
| 21:23:26 | a7r | doesn't exist.. cat /proc/uptime |
| 21:24:05 | vorteX | is that epoc time? |
| 21:25:31 | a7r | vorteX: the first number is seconds of uptime. |
| 21:26:07 | vorteX | thnx a7r, what is the 2nd one ? |
| 21:27:02 | a7r | not sure.. I'd have to look at the code. |
| 21:28:08 | vorteX | hmmm, i better log off, otherwise i'll end up installing every single ipk... :) |
| 21:29:00 | nikos | Bye tvraman |
| 21:33:15 | vorteX | last question, whereis awk ? |
| 21:55:12 | tvraman | am browsing the cvs archive at handhelds --it's bewildering --and I cant make any reasonable guesses as to where things might be squirrelled away. anyone around who might be willing to act as tour guide?:-) |
| 22:05:48 | olsner | what does Familiar do? |
| 22:06:46 | olsner | never mind, then |
| 23:06:35 | tvraman | where does familiar put log files? /var/log contains nothing useful. |
| 23:38:31 | edwardam | is away: Showering |
| 23:58:06 | edwardam | is back (gone 00:19:36) |
| 23:58:48 | tvraman | edwardam> --are you the one Jim pointed me at for sharky help? |
| 23:59:29 | edwardam | tvraman: yes. Sorry I haven't had too much time. I'm about to start playing ... |
