| 00:08:54 | icant | hello! i am having some blackbox/library problems..with familiar .4 on a 3670 |
| 00:09:04 | icant | hoping someone can help me |
| 00:09:10 | Tangent | icant : What kind of problems.. |
| 00:09:16 | icant | ive installed and reinstalled a few times now... |
| 00:09:44 | Tangent | any helpful error messages? |
| 00:10:14 | icant | hows this....blackbox: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libstdc |
| 00:10:23 | icant | ++-libc6.2-2.so.3: undefined symbol: __ti3ios |
| 00:10:53 | icant | that all comes up as one line just before login |
| 00:11:58 | icant | i also get about 4 of these: jffs2_scan_inode_node(): Data CRC failed on node at 0x0000fb90: Read 0x684f4cf4,D9B01D85 |
| 00:12:00 | icant | addr: 00AB0000 data: 0000000 |
| 00:12:12 | icant | in the middle of the boot sequence |
| 00:12:28 | cworth | evening all |
| 00:12:47 | icant | right after ip comes up... |
| 00:13:34 | cworth | /msg #tuxscreen jacques: would you believe I left everything at the office today. :-P I hope to try tommorow. |
| 00:15:20 | jacques | cworth: ah, OK :-) |
| 00:21:02 | icant | hmm... |
| 00:39:13 | icant | hello! i am having some blackbox/library problems..with familiar .4 on a 3670 |
| 00:39:37 | a7r | icant: what, specifically? |
| 00:41:05 | icant | well, blackbox: error while loading shared libraries: /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3: undefined symbol: __ti3ios |
| 00:41:19 | icant | just before login: |
| 00:41:21 | a7r | icant: you running the unstable feed? |
| 00:41:47 | icant | v0.4 |
| 00:41:57 | a7r | you haven't made any changes to the underlying system? |
| 00:42:19 | icant | this is my third time reinstalling all unsuccessful |
| 00:42:37 | a7r | did you verify your file MD5s? |
| 00:42:40 | icant | it just never worked |
| 00:42:50 | icant | yes, just this last time, though |
| 00:43:37 | jacques | a7r: any way to md5sum jffs2 partitions like we used to be able to with cramfs? |
| 00:44:51 | a7r | jacques: yes and no.. it's difficult to do with a writable filesystem. |
| 00:45:03 | jacques | a7r: yeah, I suspected that |
| 00:45:16 | jacques | a7r: mount ro ? |
| 00:45:41 | a7r | jacques: I don't think JFFS2 supprots ro.. and the second that you modify the filesystem, you have a potential for changing things. |
| 00:46:05 | jacques | a7r: yeah, is was just a shot in the dark |
| 00:46:28 | jaxon | is top not included with famialiar because it is known not to work, or just beause of space considerations? |
| 00:46:34 | jacques | icant: can you md5su mbb bin and libstdc++ lib ? |
| 00:46:52 | a7r | jaxon: space. |
| 00:47:23 | cworth | jaxon: though someone should make it available as a package sometime... |
| 00:47:24 | icant | jac: i dont follow... |
| 00:47:34 | jaxon | cool, I was thinking of pulling it out of the debian arm distro and installing it |
| 00:47:45 | jacques | icant: sorry, I will type more slowly (more accurately) can you md5sum blackbox binary and libstdc++ library? |
| 00:48:03 | jaxon | Finding runaway processes and killing them is getting to be a chore |
| 00:48:05 | jacques | icant: this is on your ipaq |
| 00:49:02 | icant | jac: 0c12851c81c543f25a9004e6cdaf3499 blackbox |
| 00:49:52 | jacques | icant: that's same as mine |
| 00:50:05 | jacques | icant: what about lib? |
| 00:50:40 | a7r | cworth: what do you think of using the runlevel system to get X components started? |
| 00:51:34 | icant | jac: ddbb760535ab84c0d9a5d6a13752a72e libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so |
| 00:51:37 | cworth | a7r: sounds right to me. |
| 00:52:04 | jacques | icant: that's different than mine |
| 00:52:15 | icant | good! |
| 00:52:20 | cworth | a7r: Oh, and I'd like to edit /init.d/x to call /usr/X11R6/bin/window-manager or some such, (which could be registered using update-alternatives in each wm package) |
| 00:52:23 | jacques | icant: 0918b74230a258314206d91c7fd70205 libstdc++-3-libc6.2-2-2.10.0.so |
| 00:52:48 | icant | jac: well, thats definately different...whats that all about? |
| 00:52:50 | a7r | cworth: I think it'd be better to just make window-manager be part of the per-user X startup scripts. |
| 00:52:59 | jacques | icant: corrupted? |
| 00:53:14 | jacques | icant: I would try rewriting just that file |
| 00:53:27 | cworth | a7r: I agree. my idea was a stop-gap until that is in place. How close is it? |
| 00:53:57 | a7r | cworth: I'd like to get some test images out this weekend, using it, and supporting multi-user. |
| 00:54:01 | icant | jac: hmm...but three times in a row? |
| 00:54:02 | jacques | icant: you may be able to use ipkg to re-install |
| 00:54:06 | jacques | icant: just that lib |
| 00:54:12 | a7r | cworth: Morph and I already sat down and did the lowlevel work to find out what needs to be tweaked. |
| 00:54:22 | jacques | icant: I hate to say tis, but there may be a bad spot in your flash |
| 00:54:22 | a7r | I just need to change the packages around.. |
| 00:54:22 | icant | jac: ive yet to setup networking... |
| 00:54:36 | cworth | jacques: nod. "ipkg install foo" will reinstall foo |
| 00:54:44 | jacques | icant: ok, well you could dl ipkg, untar it, and rz the lib to your ipaq |
| 00:54:46 | cworth | a7r: nod. |
| 00:55:10 | icant | jac: rz? |
| 00:55:50 | jacques | icant: zmodem transfer |
| 00:55:57 | icant | ah! |
| 00:56:44 | icant | jac: right through the serial connection? |
| 00:57:28 | jacques | icant: yes, you ned a terminal program that supports zmodem, you start the receive on the ipaq side and then do the send |
| 00:58:10 | icant | jac: sorry, but ive never done that...please enlighten me... |
| 00:58:25 | jacques | icant: I haven't either, but I have seen several ppl here do it |
| 00:58:40 | icant | how do i geet the ipaq to receive? |
| 00:59:03 | jacques | icant: run rz with proper args on ipaq side |
| 00:59:32 | icant | jac: ill give it a try... |
| 00:59:38 | icant | thanks! |
| 01:01:11 | jacques | icant: cool, you know more now than you did a little wihle ago at least :-) |
| 01:01:22 | jacques | icant: about this problem I mean |
| 01:09:32 | cworth | drags his DSL modem upstairs and reminds himself to get 802.11 at home soon. |
| 01:09:50 | cworth | pardon me if I disappear for a bit... |
| 01:16:40 | boodle | Hi, anyone else still seeing stuff crash with new x server (Xipaq) |
| 01:17:06 | a7r | yeah.. there's a new server package coming up. |
| 01:17:07 | jacques | boodle: stuff crash or x server crash? |
| 01:17:23 | boodle | a7r: ok, new since yesterday? I have the blackbox obviously.. |
| 01:17:30 | a7r | boodle: yup. |
| 01:17:41 | a7r | coming up, as in I haven't added it to the unstable feed yet.. |
| 01:17:48 | boodle | a7r: cool. going up tonight? |
| 01:17:52 | a7r | yup. |
| 01:17:54 | boodle | eager :) |
| 01:17:56 | boodle | great |
| 01:18:59 | jacques | boodle: what's crashing for you? |
| 01:20:01 | boodle | jacques: scream :) was just going to test shoutcast on ipaq |
| 01:20:45 | jacques | boodle: ah, hmmm an audio app is crashing X ? |
| 01:21:08 | boodle | jacques: nope.. pygtk app. never got to the audio portion |
| 01:21:49 | jacques | boodle: AH! yes! I am seeing mingle crash the X server - another poython app |
| 01:22:53 | boodle | jacques: pikpak crashed for me last night too (haven't tried it tonight yet..) |
| 01:23:24 | jacques | boodle: I had chalked it up to x libraries / x server mismatch |
| 01:23:40 | a7r | the X in the tree is Alpha quality right now.. |
| 01:24:01 | boodle | jacques: hrm.. could be. jg seems well aware of it though and has submitted workaround/fix |
| 01:24:06 | jacques | I had been using Xipaq without installing the 4.1 libs |
| 01:24:43 | jacques | boodle: nod, Tangent was getting KDE crashes until he installed the latest Xipaq build I did too |
| 01:24:48 | boodle | I just did my usual 1. backup that which I hacked away at 2. ipkg update 3. ipkg upgrade 4. stand back and watch the fallout |
| 01:25:30 | boodle | jacques: hrm but I did install them earlier (3 hours ago ish).. still crashing. |
| 01:26:07 | jacques | boodle: I dunno when the ipkg one was built |
| 01:27:02 | boodle | jacques: where did you get a newer one? cvs? |
| 01:27:08 | jacques | boodle: nod |
| 01:27:34 | boodle | jacques: so are gtk apps ok for you now? |
| 01:28:14 | jacques | boodle: which ones in particular? I haven't had any crashes recently |
| 01:28:23 | boodle | jacques: try pikpak |
| 01:28:46 | jacques | boodle: will try it when I get home - at work now only remotely logged into ipaq |
| 01:28:50 | boodle | tries and confirms it still crashes |
| 01:28:58 | boodle | jacques: ok |
| 01:29:31 | jacques | boodle: you have handhelds.org account? |
| 01:29:48 | boodle | jacques: yes (although fairly clueless on cvs updating) |
| 01:30:24 | jacques | boodle: I was just going to say, log into www.handhelds.org and get the X11R6.tgz file from /tmp |
| 01:30:33 | boodle | jacques: thanks! |
| 01:30:35 | jacques | boodle: I built that last night |
| 01:30:47 | boodle | jacques: will try it |
| 01:30:59 | jacques | boodle: it may or may not help you - and it's not an ipkg, just a tar file with X server, libs and some apps |
| 01:31:28 | boodle | jacques: sure, will have a go |
| 01:31:32 | jacques | boodle: cool |
| 01:33:28 | boodle | jacques: got it |
| 01:33:52 | jacques | boodle: cool :-) I hope it helps in some way |
| 01:34:08 | boodle | jacques: me too! thanks |
| 01:43:49 | cworth | g'night all |
| 01:43:54 | a7r | later carl.. |
| 01:47:00 | boodle | jacques: well.. mixed results ;p pikpak ran but xrandr now shuts off bl |
| 01:47:34 | jacques | boodle: yeh, that's akernel bug - you need to use the lcd app to work around it |
| 01:47:58 | boodle | lcd ? don't have that one |
| 01:48:06 | jacques | boodle: sorry I fogot about that little isue |
| 01:48:37 | boodle | jacques: which app do you mean? (for workaround) |
| 01:48:55 | jacques | boodle: checking... |
| 01:49:09 | boodle | jacques: thanks |
| 01:51:11 | jacques | boodle: hmm, I just asked Tangent but he got discnnected |
| 01:51:35 | boodle | jacques: ok |
| 01:52:48 | jacques | boodle: i could swear it was called lcd, but I can't find it on my ipaq either - tho I re-installed intimate since then |
| 01:53:07 | jacques | boodle: just a sec |
| 01:53:26 | boodle | jacques: there's an 'led' |
| 01:53:38 | jacques | boodle: http://intimate.handhelds.org/installer/util/installerfiles/lcd |
| 01:54:11 | jacques | boodle: I think you use it like: lcd 0 && lcd 1 |
| 01:55:09 | boodle | jacques: hehe well I did a 'lcd --help' and it did (bl came on ;) |
| 01:55:54 | jacques | boodle: yeh, it's not a very complex little app :-) |
| 01:55:56 | Tangent | boodle : LCD 1 turns the display off... LCD 0 is a toggle which either turns it on, or off depending on it's state... |
| 01:56:12 | Tangent | boodle :There' s no way to definately switch it on... |
| 01:56:25 | boodle | Tangent/jacques: thank you! |
| 01:56:28 | jacques | oops I got the order wrong then |
| 01:56:37 | jacques | lcd 1 && lcd 0 |
| 01:56:43 | bdkearns | except lcd 1 && lcd 0 ? |
| 01:56:52 | boodle | still getting weirdness though.. calibration of stylus waaay off and apps shifted up off screen in portrait mode.. |
| 01:56:54 | Tangent | Or just lcd0 is the display is already blanked |
| 01:57:13 | boodle | hmm locked it up |
| 01:57:17 | jacques | boodle: you using xrandr-aware wm ? |
| 01:57:29 | jacques | :-\ |
| 01:57:31 | boodle | jacques: yes, blackbox with jg's changes |
| 01:57:51 | jacques | boodle: well that is an untested Xipaq bin :-) |
| 01:58:21 | boodle | now he tells me!! (joke) |
| 01:59:02 | jacques | boodle: :-) |
| 01:59:27 | jacques | boodle: did it lock up your whole ipaq? |
| 01:59:54 | boodle | jacques: actually no.. just the networking |
| 02:00:08 | boodle | jacques: hey the screensaver works however |
| 02:00:28 | jacques | boodle: hmg, sorry 'bout that |
| 02:00:57 | boodle | jacques: np. |
| 02:01:22 | bdkearns | is it just me or do the fonts/etc seem different/bigger after xrandr -o right ? |
| 02:01:34 | boodle | yes, same for me |
| 02:01:42 | bdkearns | and, why, even if xrandr -o right is in the /etc/init.d/x file, does it start landscape mode? |
| 02:01:53 | boodle | I think the dpi fontset changed automagically by xrandr as a guess |
| 02:01:58 | bdkearns | yeah |
| 02:02:03 | bdkearns | like down to 75 instead of 100 |
| 02:02:08 | boodle | nods |
| 02:02:18 | a7r | bdkearns: that's a bug. |
| 02:02:21 | a7r | and it's fixed. |
| 02:02:28 | bdkearns | which? I mentioned two :) |
| 02:02:28 | jacques | a7r: it is? in cvs? |
| 02:02:40 | a7r | bdkearns: DPI |
| 02:02:45 | bdkearns | ah k |
| 02:02:50 | a7r | jacques: AFAIK. |
| 02:03:04 | boodle | refreshes unstable feed for tasty new ipkgs |
| 02:03:12 | a7r | boodle: it's not in the tree yet.. |
| 02:03:17 | a7r | is working on Python 2.1 |
| 02:03:23 | boodle | a7r: ah |
| 02:03:35 | boodle | hears the call of 2.1 and waits patiently |
| 02:03:57 | boodle | a7r: now I'll have to upgrade my laptop's version :) |
| 02:06:00 | bdkearns | also, changing the xrandr -o line in /etc/init.d/x seems to have no effect on start orientation |
| 02:06:28 | bdkearns | does anyone else experience this issue? |
| 02:06:41 | boodle | I get it too |
| 02:09:12 | a7r | ttp://www.handhelds.org/~a7r/xserver-tiny-h3600_4.1-2_arm.ipk <- New X server. Shouldn't crash. |
| 02:09:18 | a7r | s/ttp/http/ |
| 02:09:48 | boodle | a7r: thanks much! |
| 02:10:35 | a7r | hold off on grabbing that, it looks like it hosed. |
| 02:10:56 | boodle | ok |
| 02:11:25 | a7r | Ah, ipkg bug.. it's fine. |
| 02:11:32 | boodle | ok |
| 02:14:12 | a7r | Hm, looks like it's still not honoring DPI. |
| 02:17:15 | boodle | a7r: do you see both S98x and S99x in /etc/rc2.d ? |
| 02:18:09 | a7r | boodle; no.. I just S99 for me. |
| 02:19:02 | boodle | a7r: ah ok.. I put S98x back in.. my fault. wasn't sure if an ipkg did that (i reinstalled all relevent x ipkgs other than xserver) |
| 02:19:38 | bdkearns | libXi.so.6: cannot load shared object file: No such file or directory |
| 02:19:43 | bdkearns | both foal and dillo complain about that |
| 02:19:46 | boodle | jacques/a7r: well pikpak works + rotate ok without losing backlight. but yes DPI issue still there and it doesn't come up in portrait mode |
| 02:19:57 | bdkearns | did 4.1 build break it and no one noticed? |
| 02:20:37 | boodle | hmm.. I may have spoke too soon. pikpak off the screen (off top) and blackbox crashed |
| 02:21:08 | a7r | bdkearns: anything linked to gtk is busted right now. |
| 02:21:14 | bdkearns | oh. ok |
| 02:30:04 | boodle | pygtk apps seem ok in landscape.. in portrait they break blackbox |
| 02:30:58 | boodle | core dumps even |
| 02:35:16 | boodle | Xipaq stays alive though.. can just restart blackbox |
| 02:35:19 | icant | jac: THANKS FOR THE HELP EARLIER! |
| 02:36:52 | icant | anyway...ive got a H3670, but df shows only 16MB RAM...loadmeter shows it as 32MB, but it should be 64! |
| 02:37:17 | icant | on a previous install, df shoed 32, and loadmeter showed 64! |
| 02:37:26 | icant | W |
| 02:37:43 | icant | anyone figure that out? |
| 02:38:01 | jacques | icant: you need to add mem=64M to linuxargs |
| 02:39:18 | jacques | icant: and df does not show RAm, it shows file system size, you are ptobably looking at RAMFS size, which is 16MB |
| 02:39:36 | jacques | icant: cat /proc/meminfo |
| 02:40:48 | icant | jac: damn, youre good a t this...how would i add to linuxargs? |
| 02:41:40 | jacques | icant: you have to do it in the bootldr, you have to set linuxargs again, reset the whole line with the mem=64M added to it |
| 02:41:58 | icant | NICE! |
| 02:42:52 | jacques | icant: set linuxargs "noinitrd mem=64M root=/dev/mtdblock/3 init=/linuxrc console=ttySA0" |
| 02:43:05 | icant | jac: i bet you wouldnt believe that i actually have a linux box as a router for my home network...i used to think i knew what i was doing...! |
| 02:43:23 | jacques | icant: oops, mke sure you use the intimate linuxards instead o that one |
| 02:44:13 | jacques | icant: set linuxargs "noinitrd mem=64M devfs=mount root=/dev/mtdblock3 init=/linuxrc.intimate console=ttySA0" |
| 02:44:14 | icant | jac: im not using intimate, though if anyones got a spare microdrive, my address is......... |
| 02:44:32 | jacques | icant: oops, I got you confused with someone else who just installed intimate - sory |
| 02:44:46 | jacques | icant: use the first line I pasted then :-) |
| 02:50:48 | jacques_idle | heading home... |
| 02:51:09 | boodle | jacques_idle: thanks for the help! |
| 02:51:57 | jacques_idle | boodle: np, wish I could have helped more |
| 02:52:11 | jacques_idle | boodle: I'll be on from home in a bit :-) |
| 02:52:31 | boodle | jacques_idle: may be asleep by then (fading fast) |
| 02:57:18 | boodle | a7r: thanks much for the help + the ipkg |
| 02:57:21 | boodle | g'night all |
| 02:57:24 | a7r | later |
| 02:59:52 | jaxon | are the agenda PIM apps still available for familiar? |
| 03:00:41 | jaxon | I heard they were in an earlier release |
| 03:01:19 | a7r | jaxon: I pulled them in favor of other things. |
| 03:03:20 | jaxon | ok |
| 04:19:56 | TheGrue | does familiar have any relation or impact on the Agenda vr3, or higher-end devices, such as iPaq's? |
| 04:20:38 | a7r | TheGrue: Familiar is a distribution for the iPAQ (and others). |
| 04:20:50 | TheGrue | okay thanks |
| 04:20:59 | a7r | so yeah, it impacts the iPAQ, and it can also be compared to the VR3's distribution. |
| 04:21:28 | TheGrue | i see |
| 04:22:19 | a7r | TheGrue: what're you interested in? |
| 04:29:01 | TheGrue | a7r: handheld development in general. specifically the vr3 of late, |
| 04:30:13 | a7r | TheGrue: save your dimes, and buy an iPAQ. It's a better machine. |
| 04:30:17 | TheGrue | I like the fact that linux is starting to 'invade' all levels of pda's. |
| 04:30:38 | TheGrue | I don't have the money. |
| 04:31:21 | TheGrue | I realize it's a better machine, but I'm really more interested in the consumer-level pda's...on the level of the Palms. |
| 04:33:32 | TheGrue | but I'm taking a look at the famliiar project page, and it looks like you guys are doing great work |
| 04:33:52 | a7r | thanks |
| 04:34:05 | BZFlag | actually the vr3 will make a nice universal remote. ;-) |
| 04:34:31 | TheGrue | hehe. yeah the ... what do they call it ... Consumer IRda port? |
| 04:34:37 | a7r | yup. |
| 04:34:39 | BZFlag | I think I've got 4 or 5 around here someplace. |
| 04:34:49 | TheGrue | 4 or 5 vr3's? |
| 04:34:53 | TheGrue | heh, can I have one? :-) |
| 04:35:03 | BZFlag | yeah, it has both a irda and a consumer ir port. |
| 04:35:06 | a7r | throws 3 spare iPAQs at BZFlag. |
| 04:35:12 | TheGrue | intercepts |
| 04:35:18 | TheGrue | :) |
| 04:35:19 | Xunil96 | hah |
| 04:35:21 | BZFlag | ducks and responds with vr3s |
| 04:35:30 | a7r | PDA warfare. |
| 04:36:02 | BZFlag | looks around to load a zaurus, but finds only a yopy and hurls that |
| 04:36:16 | TheGrue | catches a vr3, hacks the irda to emit dangerous levels of radiation, and back into a corner...."Okay...who wants some...whooooo wants some..." |
| 04:36:44 | BZFlag | fortunately BZFlag can hide behind an impenetrable wall of TuxScreens. ;-) |
| 04:36:49 | TheGrue | lol |
| 04:37:46 | BZFlag | wish I had a 32M/64M ipaq though. |
| 04:37:59 | BZFlag | my yopy is a 32/32 |
| 04:38:24 | a7r | BZFlag: send me one, so I can release Familiar on it. |
| 04:38:25 | BZFlag | I should have a zaurus in the next week or so. |
| 04:38:35 | TheGrue | I personally hope it doesn't come down to the rediculous PalmPC vs PalmOS platform wars in the linux community. I hear so many people saying "Oh don't waste your money on linux-capable product X...wait for the linux-enabled product Y. Product Y fa life, yo" |
| 04:39:13 | BZFlag | nope, Linux should be pretty much device agnostic. |
| 04:39:19 | TheGrue | yeah |
| 04:39:33 | BZFlag | which ever has the best price/performance/battery life/features will win. |
| 04:40:02 | TheGrue | I think the most important thing is to have a cross pda-distribution method of beaming PIM data like contacts and memos. |
| 04:40:11 | BZFlag | The zaurus should be interesting. basically it's an ipaq with a mini keyboard that's a bit cheaper. |
| 04:40:34 | TheGrue | having a bunch of linux devices that can't talk to each other wirelessly would be a shame |
| 04:40:50 | BZFlag | a7r: I've tried to get you a zaurus. There are very few prototypes around now though. |
| 04:41:17 | a7r | BZFlag: Thanks.. I'd like to work on one. |
| 04:41:31 | BZFlag | a7r: I have some gmate (yopy) connections too. The big issue with them is a web browser. Any thoughts for familiar on that yet? |
| 04:42:15 | BZFlag | TheGrue: that won't happen. All the linux devices will be running the same stack. They should even talk to palm and ce devices. |
| 04:42:16 | a7r | BZFlag: There's going to be movement on the QPE/Konq front, and the Dillo front. |
| 04:43:06 | BZFlag | dillo? |
| 04:43:14 | | bzflag: wish i knew |
| 04:43:14 | BZFlag | ibot: dillo? |
| 04:43:23 | a7r | BZFlag: Gtk based browser. |
| 04:43:30 | a7r | lightweight, but really functional. |
| 04:44:35 | BZFlag | goes off to freshmeat to look... hmmm. does ibot do freshmeat? |
| 04:44:44 | | BZFlag: excuse me? |
| 04:44:44 | BZFlag | ibot: search freshmeat for dillo |
| 04:44:48 | BZFlag | nope. ;-) |
| 04:45:14 | a7r | BZFlag: dillo.sourceforge.net |
| 04:45:48 | a7r | it's a good use of straight Gtk.. |
| 04:46:03 | BZFlag | a7r: yep, freshmeat got me there. |
| 04:49:57 | Xunil96 | a7r, what's the device name for a flash card under familiar? |
| 04:50:04 | Xunil96 | well..i should say under linux |
| 04:50:08 | BZFlag | /dev/hda |
| 04:50:10 | a7r | Xunil96: /dev/hda |
| 04:50:27 | BZFlag | Xunil96: though on a laptop it's likely to be /dev/hde |
| 04:51:49 | BZFlag | dillo does xrender? |
| 04:52:04 | a7r | no. |
| 04:52:19 | a7r | unless it doesn't render fonts through gtk. |
| 04:56:05 | BZFlag | hmm. gtk planning on supporting xrender? |
| 04:56:30 | Xunil96 | yawns |
| 04:57:56 | BZFlag | whacks Xunil96 over the head with the broken TuxScreen. |
| 04:58:38 | Xunil96 | a7r, hey, is there a way to change the orientation of the screen? |
| 04:58:47 | a7r | Xunil96: yup.. a couple. |
| 04:58:55 | a7r | w/ that release, you need to edit /etc/init.d/x |
| 04:58:59 | a7r | and change the resolution. |
| 04:59:26 | a7r | with v0.5 (and the unstable feed) Xrandr will be available, which will let you do it on the fly. |
| 05:00:08 | Xunil96 | so just...change it to 320x240 instead of 240x320? |
| 05:01:00 | BZFlag | a7r: what triggers the change with Xrandr ? |
| 05:01:55 | a7r | Xunil96: a command line util. |
| 05:02:01 | a7r | er BZFlag |
| 05:03:27 | Xunil96 | a7r...if i change the res to 320x240 instead of 240x320, will that make the orientation change? |
| 05:05:35 | BZFlag | a7r: so probably a menu item. cool. |
| 05:05:49 | a7r | BZFlag: it hasn't been implemented, but yah. |
| 05:06:13 | Xunil96 | a7r is ignoring me. |
| 05:06:48 | a7r | Xunil96: Yeah, just change the string. |
| 05:10:54 | Xunil96 | rock that worked. |
| 05:12:50 | Xunil96 | ok, first priority...must get a real copy of vi on here. |
| 05:12:55 | Xunil96 | elvis, if nothing else. |
| 05:13:11 | jacques | I just build uemacs |
| 05:13:15 | BZFlag | the busybox vi is much better. copy and paste, even. ;-) |
| 05:13:31 | jacques | hmmmmm |
| 05:13:44 | BZFlag | and it's like 5.9 meg smaller than the emacs that jacques built. ;-) |
| 05:13:53 | BZFlag | pokes a7r |
| 05:13:56 | BZFlag | ;-) |
| 05:14:01 | jacques | -rwxr-xr-x 1 fontenot fontenot 126640 Jun 14 22:01 emacs* |
| 05:14:02 | a7r | restrains. |
| 05:14:11 | jacques | BZFlag: I *did* say Uemacs |
| 05:14:12 | BZFlag | rotfl |
| 05:14:43 | jacques | wants to see the -5.8MB vi app |
| 05:15:49 | a7r | I'm going to turn task-bootstrap into a copy of python, and a kernel. |
| 05:17:41 | BZFlag | jacques: heh. is the binary the only thing needed for that emacs? That is small for emacs. |
| 05:18:36 | BZFlag | a7r: what one monolithic python app that you have to configure at compile time but saves duplicated binary space? ;-) |
| 05:18:38 | jacques | BZFlag: well I built it to use ncurses |
| 05:18:41 | jacques | gemini% ldd emacs |
| 05:18:41 | jacques | libncurses.so.5 => /usr/lib/libncurses.so.5 (0x40022000) |
| 05:18:41 | jacques | libtermcap.so.2 => /lib/libtermcap.so.2 (0x40064000) |
| 05:18:42 | jacques | libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x40068000) |
| 05:18:42 | jacques | /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000) |
| 05:19:07 | jacques | BZFlag: there are some .cmd files for different modes, but they are not required |
| 05:19:38 | BZFlag | jacques: pretty impressive. The vi in busybox adds about 22k and does not use curses or termcap. |
| 05:19:41 | jacques | BZFlag: and it's not real emacs, it's microemacs, just to be clear |
| 05:20:04 | BZFlag | jacques: yeah, I got that. pretty small though. nice. |
| 05:20:06 | jacques | BZFlag: yeah, that's cool. I'll use vi in a pinch but I prefer emacs |
| 05:21:28 | jacques | BZFlag: so the vi binary is only 22k? or it adds 22k to the monolithic? |
| 05:23:16 | BZFlag | jacques: adds 22k to the monolithic. I never tried it as the only app. |
| 05:23:26 | jacques | BZFlag: i see :-) |
| 05:23:31 | a7r | BZFlag: nah, this Python is going to replace all utilities w/ a bunch of 300 byte scripts. |
| 05:23:47 | BZFlag | actually we integrated more of the functions in 0.52 so it might be like 18k now. |
| 05:24:35 | BZFlag | a7r: hehe. but how big is the python binary needed to run them? |
| 05:25:11 | a7r | BZFlag: 223k on flash.. |
| 05:25:33 | a7r | 1.7 megs resident. |
| 05:25:43 | a7r | 3.4 megs shared. |
| 05:26:50 | a7r | 1.4 and 2.2 if you don't use ncurses or readline. |
| 05:27:52 | jacques | BZFlag: Ha! I just found my nikon CF |
| 05:28:11 | BZFlag | yer getting close. bb is 211k uncompressed. |
| 05:28:21 | jacques | BZFlag: and on the back it says (C) 99 SanDisk ! |
| 05:28:39 | BZFlag | jacques: sweet, plug it in and see what the ID is. |
| 05:29:08 | jacques | BZFlag: hmmm, my udrive is in there running intimate right now |
| 05:29:08 | a7r | BZFlag: yeah, but the functionality vs. size is so much higher. ;) |
| 05:29:32 | jacques | BZFlag: but I'm trying to get my USB CF reader running |
| 05:29:44 | BZFlag | a7r: it actually might make sense, if python is going to be there, why duplicate code? |
| 05:29:51 | a7r | BZFlag: Yup. |
| 05:30:26 | a7r | it's just a CPU drain. |
| 05:30:41 | a7r | and in the end, that impacts the batteries. |
| 05:31:00 | a7r | although that's what optimization is for. |
| 05:31:23 | BZFlag | hmmm. I wonder by how much. If many apps use it, it will already be in memory and avoid flash reads. That might equal out. |
| 05:31:37 | a7r | yup. |
| 05:32:12 | jacques | are flash readd more expensive than RAM reads? |
| 05:32:25 | a7r | they're slower, and they probably suck more juice. |
| 05:32:56 | jacques | that reminds me |
| 05:33:12 | jacques | anyone here played with the different speed CF cards? |
| 05:33:30 | jacques | I have a lexar 4x and I have seen 8x and I think 10x cards |
| 05:33:53 | jacques | will that actually make a difference on the ipaq? or does it require hardware support to use the faster speeds? |
| 05:34:35 | jacques | hmm, maybe the asic handles that, since the cards look like an ide device |
| 05:34:44 | jacques | they just look like a faster ide device |
| 05:34:53 | agyani | greetings everybody, I have a Nino which I just got, any support in familiar? |
| 05:34:58 | jacques | hmm, I wonder if the 8x refers to read, write, or both? |
| 05:35:24 | a7r | agyani: Not yet, but we're always look for more devices to support. |
| 05:35:58 | BZFlag | jacques: yes, the faster cards just work under linux. faster writes, an some do faster reads. |
| 05:36:23 | BZFlag | jacques: though some draw more powere to achieve that. |
| 05:36:54 | jacques | BZFlag: interesting |
| 05:37:12 | BZFlag | I tested mpeg playback off a normal and a fast CF. the fast was better, less choppy. |
| 05:37:29 | jacques | BZFlag: so that implies faster reads |
| 05:37:34 | BZFlag | I did not test more than that though as to power usage or raw numbers. |
| 05:37:38 | BZFlag | yes. |
| 05:38:24 | BZFlag | the 8x etc refers to the write though. this is important if you are recording mpegs on a camera. |
| 05:38:40 | jacques | BZFlag: or using the CF for swap (ugh) |
| 05:39:25 | BZFlag | I would expect the faster write cards to be no slower on reads, and probably faster, but most of the flash overhead is in writes. |
| 05:39:32 | finalfantasydog | does |
| 05:39:35 | finalfantasydog | ww |
| 06:08:05 | a7r | hmm.. no one try to use ipkg v0.9 with offline root.. |
| 06:08:07 | a7r | it's totally hosed. |
| 08:45:54 | cworth | morning |
| 08:47:28 | BBrox | 'lo |
| 09:22:29 | Jogu | hi |
| 09:24:13 | Jogu | which wireless network cards have people got to work with familiar? |
| 09:24:43 | kirma | lucent cards work nicely |
| 09:27:22 | jn | lo * |
| 09:30:54 | Jogu | kirma> right, thanks |
| 09:32:42 | Jogu | kirma> the 'ORiNOCO' ones? |
| 09:34:55 | kirma | yep |
| 09:36:26 | Jogu | hmm, 145 quid each and 600 for the access point |
| 09:36:30 | kirma | orinoco support has been included for quite a while, and the cards work nicely (although they suck quite much power) |
| 09:37:24 | kirma | you can avoid buying access point by using cards in non-infrastructure mode. that prevents most of the power saving logic from being used, though |
| 09:37:42 | Jogu | ah, we'd probably be best of with the access point then. |
| 09:37:45 | Jogu | are there any that suck less power? |
| 09:38:39 | kirma | I believe (don't know) that compaq card is considerably better in this aspect, but has severely more limited sensitivity and stuff |
| 09:38:52 | Jogu | ah :/ |
| 11:10:39 | Motse | Hi all ! |
| 11:12:42 | Motse | can someone tell me how to connect to my iPAQ (bootloader installed) with minicom (I've set 115000 8N1 as discribed on the handhelds home page) |
| 11:36:22 | vh | motse, disable hardware flow control. |
| 11:37:04 | mpakula | is AWAY at 15:35:18 : Not behind the keyboard |
| 11:37:31 | vh | mootse, install lrzsz. |
| 11:38:00 | jn | Motse: *and* disable software flow control ! |
| 11:38:04 | vh | mootse, if you have troubles and receive NAK on sector X, use sendfile/ipaqtty scripts. |
| 11:39:04 | vh | jn, that should be disabled as default. |
| 11:39:30 | jn | vh: just making sure... |
| 11:41:48 | jn | Motse: are you sure you got the correct ttySn ? try running minicom as root, that will sort out all permission problems... |
| 11:55:16 | mpakula | is back after 0 d 0 h 18 m 9 s |
| 11:56:05 | | a7r was last seen on #handhelds.org 4 hours, 38 minutes and 54 seconds ago, saying: Morph: hasta. [Fri Jun 15 08:17:11 2001] |
| 11:56:05 | cworth | ibot: seen a7r? |
| 12:38:17 | jn | hello nikos ! |
| 12:38:49 | nikos | Hi |
| 12:45:49 | boodle | Morning all |
| 12:46:50 | nikos | Morning boodle |
| 12:47:27 | boodle | jg: I'm now running blackbox v0.2 and xserver 4.1-2 and still finding issues |
| 12:47:32 | boodle | nikos: morning |
| 12:48:33 | boodle | jg: during window resizing to maximum, the windows jump up off screen then come down to fill screen.. takes about 2 secs to complete. |
| 12:49:09 | boodle | jg: I also get this effect when a pgm (pygtk app - scream) spawns an external process (popen3() in python calls music player) |
| 12:49:41 | boodle | jg: also screensaver (bl) still not functioning |
| 12:49:42 | edwardam | jg: and what boodle is desc. didn't happen before |
| 12:50:06 | edwardam | boodle, jg: morning (BTW) |
| 12:50:23 | boodle | edwardam: morning :) testing shoutcast :) |
| 12:50:37 | edwardam | boodle: cool |
| 12:51:27 | boodle | edwardam: I have to say that the shoutcast stuff (servers) seem better setup the icecast.. excellent fidelity (128kps bitrates help!) |
| 12:51:40 | nikos | boodle: Sounds like scream is going to force me to invest in Wireless. |
| 12:52:01 | boodle | nikos: :) it's really nice. |
| 12:53:26 | edwardam | ohhh... GPL compatible Python :-) |
| 12:58:32 | boodle | edwardam: sent you some e-mail |
| 12:58:49 | edwardam | boodle: I'll need to check it later ... Heading off to a meeting. |
| 12:58:54 | edwardam | is away: Meeting |
| 12:59:14 | boodle | edwardam: np, just let me know if it works without resizing (if you haven't upgrade to Xipaq stuff yet) |
| 13:11:04 | tvraman | quick intimate question --what incantation do I use so pppd is starting at boot time --this is so I can ppp to the ipaq from my linux box. |
| 13:13:16 | nikos | tvraman: Probably build your own entry for /etc/init.d and install it using update-rc.d. |
| 13:15:15 | | a7r was last seen on #handhelds.org 5 hours, 58 minutes and 4 seconds ago, saying: Morph: hasta. [Fri Jun 15 08:17:11 2001] |
| 13:15:15 | boodle | ibot: seen a7r |
| 13:18:41 | tvraman | thanks nikos --right now I have a more basic problem --overnight the ipaq seems to have gone into suspend mode (while running intimate) and now refuses to come back --serial console looks dead even though it printed a waking up message. |
| 13:19:29 | nikos | tvraman: You need to get someone to hit the power button. |
| 13:19:46 | nikos | tvraman: Although the suspend should not happen automatically, only if someone hits the power button. It toggles. |
| 13:20:08 | nikos | tvraman: I mean the push button at the upper right of the ipaq. |
| 13:22:32 | jg | boodle,edwardam: OK, i'll look into this as soon as I can (I'm reinstalling bits |
| 13:22:35 | jg | right now. |
| 13:23:17 | boodle | jg: ok, thank you |
| 13:24:00 | tvraman | thanks nikos --will need to wait until my friend who has the ipaq on his desk comes in --maybe it's time I moved the ipaq to my desk. |
| 13:24:23 | nikos | tvraman: Might be a good idea. ;) |
| 13:41:41 | nikos | tvraman: Are you sure that it has suspended? How do you know this? |
| 14:03:29 | nikos | is away: Errands |
| 14:22:10 | fad | cworth: im getting wierd ipkg errors |
| 14:22:32 | cworth | fad: such as? |
| 14:22:51 | fad | can i paste to you in a msg? |
| 14:23:08 | fad | i tell it to ipkg install foal |
| 14:23:16 | fad | it says it's downloaded it |
| 14:23:44 | fad | then ERROR: File //tmp/ipkg/foal_0.6_all.ipk not found |
| 14:24:10 | cworth | there was a buglet in the Packages file. I think "ipkg update" will cure this. |
| 14:24:39 | fad | nope |
| 14:25:21 | cworth | fad: it may have come back: look at /usr/lib/ipkg/available and see if the foal parapgraph runs into the next one, (missing newline). |
| 14:26:43 | fad | yep missing newline |
| 14:26:49 | fad | but itsstill pending or whatever |
| 14:27:01 | fad | cworth:how do i get rid of its pendingness? |
| 14:27:21 | fad | rm /usr/lib/ipkg/pending/*? |
| 14:27:27 | mallum | is away: stuff to do........ |
| 14:27:29 | cworth | fad: You can fix your local file. Also tell the foal maintainer that foal/CONTROL/control is missing a newline at end of file. |
| 14:27:51 | fad | cworth i fixed my local file but i stil get: |
| 14:28:08 | fad | The following package were previously requested but have not been installed: |
| 14:28:08 | fad | foal |
| 14:29:13 | cworth | fad: that's what you want, (and it's not pending). It's just remembering that you asked it to install foal but it failed. |
| 14:29:25 | fad | can i make it forget?? |
| 14:30:11 | cworth | if you don't want to install foal then do "ipkg remove foal" and it will forget, (or let it install it and it will stop pestering you about it). |
| 14:30:30 | fad | um, it doenst :) |
| 14:30:49 | fad | eek still same error |
| 14:32:32 | fad | cworth: the newline has been added it still cant install foal, same error |
| 14:35:44 | dneuer | hey, anyone tell me how to rsync familiar? |
| 14:55:25 | tvraman | tangent --got a minute? |
| 14:55:56 | tvraman | tangent --microdrive not waking up context: see this last line it printed when I hit enter this morning. |
| 14:56:12 | tvraman | sa1110_suspend: *** resume_return() = 0xc001fac0 |
| 15:01:52 | fad | ofs 0x01e31df8 has already been seen. Skipping |
| 15:01:52 | fad | ofs 0x01e3de94 has already been seen. Skipping |
| 15:02:08 | fad | a load like that then: |
| 15:02:10 | fad | JFFS2: Erase block at 0x01e00000 is not formatted. It will be erased |
| 15:05:05 | ellen | is there a package that improves the sleep/resume behavior that is in .4? I saw discussion in the archives, but didn't see a resolution. |
| 15:05:46 | fad | ellen: dont think so |
| 15:06:13 | fad | dunno though |
| 15:06:17 | ellen | i thought there might be something in unstable, but nothing jumped out at me. |
| 15:07:15 | sjohnson | is away: lunch |
| 15:10:18 | fad | ellen have you ipkg upgrading from the unstable feed? |
| 15:10:22 | fad | im not saying you should |
| 15:10:32 | fad | but if you have can you give me a copy of the latest /etc/rc2.d/S99x? |
| 15:11:09 | ellen | fad: i only pulled one package from unstable and installed manually.. |
| 15:11:18 | fad | darn ok |
| 15:11:22 | ellen | fad: wlan-ng .... |
| 15:11:47 | ellen | fad: sorry i couldn't help. |
| 15:12:18 | fad | ok np |
| 15:57:00 | fad | cworth :) |
| 16:04:34 | edwardam | is back (gone 03:05:40) |
| 16:15:34 | vorteX | hi all |
| 16:23:44 | fad | lo |
| 17:48:42 | FRA6M3N7 | hi all |
| 17:49:41 | FRA6M3N7 | i`ve a question about familiar |
| 17:49:48 | FRA6M3N7 | what kind of apps are allready running on ipaq familiar? |
| 17:50:12 | FRA6M3N7 | is there a mediaplayer... mp3 player or so? |
| 17:51:15 | FRA6M3N7 | another one |
| 17:51:32 | FRA6M3N7 | is suspent functioning right? |
| 17:57:59 | nikos | is back |
| 18:04:36 | tvraman | tangent --genie that pushes the button came in --so intimate is back --first off how do I turn off power management? |
| 18:05:14 | nikos | tvraman: So it really was suspended? |
| 18:05:30 | nikos | tvraman: That is extremely odd, unless Tangent has done something, there is NO automatic suspend. |
| 18:11:27 | tvraman | may be the button got pushed -- |
| 18:12:18 | tvraman | could someone tell me the magic incantation to get pppd starting on the ipaq/intimate --it's not immediately obvious. off to lunch --will look for an answer in this buffer when I return --so feel free to write your answer prefixed with raman: |
| 18:13:19 | nikos | raman: Do you realize that your nick shows up here as 'tvraman'? |
| 18:22:19 | bworth | Question: does anyone know if it's possible to use RedBoot to load the familiar boot loader? I'm looking for a way to load familiar using only a USB connection. Here are the installation instructions for RedBoot: http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/docs-latest/redboot/ipaq.html Couldn't you just follow them and substitute bootldr-0000-2.14.8 instead of redboot_ROM.bin? Has anyone tried anything like this? |
| 18:23:50 | bdkearns | You also load other things than the bootldr over serial |
| 18:23:52 | bdkearns | such as the root image, kernel |
| 18:27:07 | icant | anyone have any suggestions for ppp timing out before it connects...with LCP errors? |
| 18:27:59 | sjohnson | icant: What type of LCP errors? |
| 18:29:00 | icant | sj: this kind: sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x1116ee63> <pcomp> <accomp>] |
| 18:29:14 | icant | about 10 of those, then pppd gives up |
| 18:31:26 | sjohnson | icant: That's part of the Link level negociation. The pppd on the other end is not responding. |
| 18:31:56 | sjohnson | Thats generally becuase the pppd on the other end is not running |
| 18:32:18 | icant | right, but if i serial login to familiar as the ppp user, it seems to come up fine?... |
| 18:34:20 | sjohnson | Hmmm. Check your pppd options on the (I assume) the desktop size as to serial speed and handshaking settings. |
| 18:43:00 | bworth | bdkearns: so there is no was to get familiar loaded onto a 36XX using just the USB cradle? I'm getting my 3635 tonight and I am just anxious to get going with it. I don't really want to wait to order a serial cable, so I will probably modify my USB cradle, but I wanted to make sure it's necessary before I do so. |
| 18:43:40 | nikos | bworth: Do you realize that you can modify your USB cradle to be a dual serial/USB cradle? |
| 18:47:57 | bworth | yes, but I wanted to avoid doing so unless it's absolutely necessary. Someone pointed out RebBoot, which seems to give you a terminal screen right on the LCD if you don't have a serial connection, so I thought I could transfer the necessary files using USB and the run RedBoot from OsLoader and then execute lo -r -b 0x100000 /tftpboot/redboot_ROM.bin etc... from the Redboot terminal. Just checking to see if anyone has tried this. |
| 18:49:29 | nikos | bworth: You would have to talk to the RedBoot guys about that. They don't really hang out here with the possible exception of dwmw2. |
| 18:49:42 | icant | hey can someone give me a md5sum on pppd? |
| 18:50:12 | bworth | ok - thanks for the help |
| 18:52:03 | nikos | sure |
| 18:54:16 | bworth | Looks like once I get up to speed with familiar, I'll just have to write a bootldr that works over USB :) |
| 18:54:46 | sjohnson | 67a6925705228df2185abb11ae26f279 /usr/sbin/pppd |
| 18:58:03 | sjohnson | icant: This is my /etc/ppp/options files on the iPAQ |
| 18:58:10 | sjohnson | -detach |
| 18:58:11 | sjohnson | nocrtscts |
| 18:58:11 | sjohnson | lock |
| 18:58:11 | sjohnson | lcp-echo-interval 5 |
| 18:58:11 | sjohnson | lcp-echo-failure 3 |
| 18:58:12 | sjohnson | 115200 |
| 18:58:13 | sjohnson | defaultroute |
| 18:58:53 | nikos | bworth: They are going a different route I think. The flashing is going to be done in the future from a Linux ramdisk that is run from WinCE, eliminating the need for the serial at least on the initial install. Then they intend to allow flashing from within Linux after that. Again, eliminating the need for serial. There's no real need for the bootloader itself to provide USB support. |
| 19:00:35 | sjohnson | proxyarp |
| 19:00:35 | sjohnson | noauth |
| 19:00:35 | sjohnson | nocrtscts |
| 19:00:35 | sjohnson | lock |
| 19:00:36 | sjohnson | connect '/usr/sbin/chat -v -t3 ogin--ogin: ppp' |
| 19:00:37 | sjohnson | /dev/ttyS0 |
| 19:00:39 | sjohnson | 115200 |
| 19:00:41 | sjohnson | 192.168.1.2:192.168.1.1 |
| 19:02:20 | bworth | nikos: Is this something still under developement? Do you know who's working on it? |
| 19:02:54 | nikos | bworth: It's on hold right now. But the CRL folks are looking at it. It is many weeks away at the very least. They are very busy with demos right now. |
| 19:03:29 | bworth | nikos: Thanks - I guess I'll get my soldering iron warmed up :) |
| 19:24:13 | icant | sj: is the 192.168.1.1 the desktop or the ipaq? |
| 19:27:08 | icant | eiher way, i dont think it ever gets that far... |
| 19:28:46 | tvraman | nikos --yes --guess I should set /nick -- |
| 19:29:08 | nikos | raman: Much nicer. Thanks. ;) |
| 19:29:22 | nikos | raman: Addiction to tab-completion is a terrible thing. ;) |
| 19:30:25 | raman | sjohnson> --thanks for the ppp options file --could you perhaps mail it to tvrmaan@almaden.ibm.com |
| 19:33:53 | boodle | w00t, got emacspeak working (on laptop but..) |
| 19:34:46 | raman | nikos --I rescued etc/ppp/options from familiar on to intimate --the ppp/options on intimate is set up to do auth etc. |
| 19:34:47 | sjohnson | raman: It's on it's way. |
| 19:35:26 | sjohnson | raman: Sorry. I got distracted. |
| 19:35:28 | raman | Q: how can I safely start pppd up while logged in over the serial line --what I just tried --launch pppd, tell kermit to drop the serial console, and then start pppd on the desktop didn't work. |
| 19:35:34 | nikos | raman: Ignore what I said about /etc/init.d earlier, I wasn't thinking, you don't run pppd as a real daemon. |
| 19:35:59 | nikos | raman: You login as ppp if it is setup correctly at the login: prompt. |
| 19:36:40 | sjohnson | raman: to run while logged in. Run pppd and then exit comm program withOUT reseting the serial device. In Minicom Ctrl-A Q . |
| 19:38:05 | sjohnson | raman: I got an e-mail bounce for tvrmaan@almaden.ibm.com |
| 19:40:25 | raman | it's tvraman@almaden.ibm.com --sorry for the typo. |
| 19:40:48 | raman | But my problem is more basic than that I'm basically confused about ppp-- let me explain.abou |
| 19:41:22 | raman | With familiar --the thing booted, and I could ppp from my desktop as root by pppd call ipaq (/etc/pp/peers on my desktop has an appropriate ipaq file. |
| 19:41:32 | raman | Now, how do I make intimate do the same? |
| 19:42:24 | sjohnson | raman: Intimate use devfs. The serial port device is different. But I don't know what it is. |
| 19:44:10 | sjohnson | raman: You'll need to have a different peers file file Intimate. |
| 19:45:15 | raman | I've fixed that it's /dev/tts/0 |
| 19:45:47 | raman | also after booting to intimate where does linuxrc disappear to? couldn't find it under /boot |
| 19:46:37 | sjohnson | raman: I don't know about the linuxrc file. I haven't use Intimate it fit on a 64MB CF card. |
| 19:46:59 | raman | tangent --you around? when intimate boots the ipaq is all dark --and after I log in over the serial line it remains dark though the machine is doing things for me --what happened to the display? |
| 19:47:12 | cworth | later all |
| 19:47:38 | raman | I mispoke linuxrc is in /boot |
| 19:48:12 | nikos | raman: One comment, you are not capitalizing Tangent's nick the same way, I'm not sure whether it will trigger an indicator in all lowercase. |
| 19:51:13 | raman | nikos --thanks. |
| 19:51:20 | raman | Tangent --are you around? |
| 19:51:47 | raman | Nikos --you said something this morning about adding pppd to init.d and running update-init clarify? I suspect this is a debian thing I dont know about. |
| 19:52:08 | nikos | raman: I was barking up the wrong tree anyway, that's not how pppd works. Forget what I said. |
| 19:54:16 | raman | this whole thing is extremely mysterious --and quite frustrating --if this remains this hard for those of us who love unix and have been running it for years, then it's doomed. |
| 19:55:48 | nikos | raman: Please note that these are 0. releases. |
| 19:56:02 | nikos | raman: They are intended for interested developers at this time, not users. |
| 19:56:36 | raman | I understand --I'm not flaming --I'm merely pointing out places where we need work. It's fun which is why I'm playing with it --otherwise I'd be waiting for 5.0 to show up in a shiny box:-) |
| 19:56:44 | nikos | raman: Setting it up on Intimate though should be identical to the way you would set it up on any Debian system I would think. With some minor settings differences. |
| 19:57:13 | raman | nikos --yes, but I'd be developping the speech stuff for it rather than mucking with the ppp setup which I'm sure others have figured out. |
| 19:57:27 | nikos | raman: :) |
| 19:57:42 | nikos | raman: I don't know if it would help, but there is a page or 2 on ppp on the wiki. |
| 19:57:47 | raman | there you uttered the key phrase "minor". Debian is already minorly (majorly?) fdiffreent from Redhat which I have on my desktop. |
| 19:58:08 | raman | will look for it --do you have a pointer handy? ibot:pppd |
| 19:58:19 | nikos | raman: Yes, but I'm not sure how those differences would manifest with PPP specifically. |
| 19:58:33 | | well, ppp is in the base, so it's probably just in need of config files |
| 19:58:33 | sjohnson | ibot: ppp? |
| 19:58:40 | nikos | http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 19:58:44 | | a7r: I forgot ppp |
| 19:58:44 | a7r | ibot forget ppp |
| 19:58:49 | nikos | Hey a7r. ;) |
| 19:58:54 | | OK, a7r. |
| 19:58:54 | a7r | ibot: ppp is http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 19:58:58 | a7r | hey nikos.. how's it? |
| 19:59:06 | nikos | Alright, how are you? |
| 19:59:26 | raman | thanks guys! could you also tell me what familiar does on boot to get ppp ready I could clone that for intiamte |
| 19:59:33 | nikos | a7r: We need to put upgrading ssh in Familiar on the todo list. The skiffcluster doesn't much like 2.2 now. |
| 19:59:57 | sjohnson | raman: Familiar has a user ppp who's shell is /usr/bin/pppd |
| 19:59:59 | a7r | nikos: Agreed.. I'll add it to the list. |
| 20:00:54 | jg | a7r: please add the new X packages I mailed you to unstable... |
| 20:01:03 | sjohnson | raman: The desktop side connect script log into the iPAQ as ppp which starts pppd. |
| 20:01:09 | a7r | jg: hold your water, I'm putting it inplace right now. ;) |
| 20:01:20 | a7r | I just spent an hour putting my car up on a flatbed. |
| 20:01:22 | jg | gotta run to the train. |
| 20:01:24 | a7r | It was a total pain in the ass. |
| 20:01:28 | nikos | bye jg |
| 20:01:34 | a7r | jgTRAIN: later.. |
| 20:01:47 | nikos | a7r: This hasn't been a good day for me to get stuff done either. |
| 20:02:08 | raman | thanks for the ppp pointer I'll set it up and send an intimate message to the list --turns out that user ppp isn't even set up by intimate. |
| 20:02:27 | a7r | raman: are you running intimate to develop on, or for something else? |
| 20:02:38 | boodle | raman: Greetings, can you point me to help on running festival with emacspeak? |
| 20:04:35 | a7r | OKay.. unstable is back in action. |
| 20:05:00 | nikos | a7r: Do you plan to have unpackaged packages in the feeds at some point in the future? Those are very handy sometimes. |
| 20:05:06 | a7r | It's got jg's new X server and libraries.. cworth's new ion release, a new foal, and xkbd.. |
| 20:05:19 | a7r | nikos: yeah.. I should start doing that. |
| 20:05:20 | nikos | a7r: oooo, aahhhh, Thank you!! |
| 20:05:40 | a7r | hopefully gtk will start working again. |
| 20:05:45 | nikos | a7r: Thanks, I would appreciate it. |
| 20:06:30 | nikos | a7r: Maybe I could put a cron job together that checks mtimes on a periodic basis and handles it automatically? |
| 20:06:56 | boodle | a7r: excellent! upgrading now |
| 20:07:08 | a7r | nikos: not worth it.. I'll just put it back as part of the scripts when I put them in place. |
| 20:07:16 | nikos | a7r: OK |
| 20:09:01 | a7r | raman: BTW, you're likely to see a lot more changes to the base that won't be like many versions of UNIX you've used before. |
| 20:09:49 | boodle | a7r/jg: still getting strange window jumping when spawning a new process inside a pygtk app :( also screensaver still not working (bl) |
| 20:10:22 | nikos | boodle: You already got the stuff that a7r just put in unstable? |
| 20:10:35 | boodle | nikos: yep |
| 20:10:58 | boodle | jgTRAIN: should rc2.d have S98 or S99? both there again.. (I keep S98) |
| 20:11:40 | nikos | boodle: He's gone. |
| 20:11:50 | nikos | boodle: Get rid of S99. |
| 20:12:07 | boodle | nikos: so I see :) did.. |
| 20:12:59 | a7r | boodle: I only have S99x |
| 20:13:11 | nikos | a7r: That's too high. |
| 20:13:24 | boodle | a7r: right.. yes, thought jg wanted it not that high. |
| 20:13:36 | a7r | nikos: Did I say it wasn't? |
| 20:14:00 | nikos | raman: Not that it helps much, but Tangent agrees that setting up PPP on Intimate should be identical to doing so on Debian (except for the serial port of course). |
| 20:14:05 | a7r | let me more explicit: I only have /etc/rc2.d/S99x on my install. |
| 20:14:18 | nikos | a7r: OK. I was stating the obvious I guess. |
| 20:14:29 | boodle | hmmm |
| 20:14:32 | nikos | boodle: You probably already had S98 from before. |
| 20:14:46 | nikos | boodle: Then the new install created S99. |
| 20:15:05 | boodle | ah.. xrandr functionality changed.. normal is portrait now |
| 20:15:20 | boodle | nikos: yes I kept moving S99x to S98x |
| 20:16:25 | a7r | Subject: [Familiar] ppp!?!?!?!?! <- that's such a cool subject line. |
| 20:16:26 | boodle | heh in landscape mode (right), it resizes the width bigtime on new processes |
| 20:16:49 | nikos | From icant here. |
| 20:19:49 | boodle | it did actually startup in portrait (but I think that's a workaround..since that's now 'normal') |
| 20:21:13 | icant | thanks, i LOVE writing cool subjects.... |
| 20:21:26 | icant | can anyone point me in A direction? |
| 20:22:39 | a7r | icant: just keep your ?s and !s to a minimum, and you'll get help |
| 20:22:42 | a7r | it looks like a host side problem. |
| 20:25:44 | icant | mmkay...:( |
| 20:34:49 | edwardam | later |
| 20:35:39 | raman | I did the steps from the ppp help -- but I still cant get it going. |
| 20:35:59 | raman | I've added the ppp user (/usr/sbin/pppd ) as the login executable in /etc/passwd --I've updated modules and modules.conf I've rebooted. |
| 20:36:21 | raman | from the host (desktop side) launching pppd opens the serial connection and then times out --here is a log: |
| 20:36:32 | raman | pppd call ipaq Serial connection established. Using interface ppp0 Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyS0 LCP: timeout sending Config-Requests Connection terminated. |
| 20:38:22 | raman | Incidentally now when I try to kermit back in there is garbage on the serial line -- |
| 20:43:32 | raman | back at the console --anything else I can try? |
| 20:43:35 | icant | raman: youre running intimate? |
| 20:43:50 | raman | yes, intimately so -- |
| 20:44:05 | icant | ive been getting the same stuff out of familiar... |
| 20:44:36 | icant | ive killed the garbage by ctrl-d ing repeatedly... |
| 20:44:37 | raman | I've got intimate running except that I cant get pppd working so the thing is useless for now. |
| 20:44:54 | raman | I did so too --and am back at the console --but I need the network |
| 20:45:22 | icant | i think the garbage is the pppd running on the ipaq, but it just wont connect... |
| 20:46:13 | raman | you are correct. I'm scrounging around the logs to see if I can tell why. |
| 21:02:35 | raman | progress --sort of. |
| 21:02:49 | raman | First problem is that /usr/sbin/pppd on intimate is owned by nobody and does not have exec perms for other. |
| 21:02:59 | raman | Debugged that bit by trying to login as ppp using kermit. |
| 21:03:29 | raman | I fixed that --now logging in as ppp with kermit still says invalid password even though the passwd field for user ppp in /etc/passwd is blank. |
| 21:06:53 | Xunil96 | a7r, around? |
| 21:07:49 | a7r | Xunil96: yeah |
| 21:08:06 | Xunil96 | a7r, hey...how difficult is it to upgrade to the unstable feed of familiar, and is it worth it? |
| 21:08:15 | raman | a7r --any insight on my continuing intimate ppp woes? |
| 21:08:22 | a7r | Xunil96: it's worth it, and it's easy. |
| 21:08:35 | Xunil96 | a7r, cool...i assume there's just an ipkg config file i have to edit? |
| 21:08:56 | a7r | Xunil96: just change your /etc/ipkg.conf to point to http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 21:09:21 | a7r | raman: you've set up a user for login named ppp, and you're running pppd as that user's shell? |
| 21:09:34 | Xunil96 | god, this CF ethernet card rocks. |
| 21:09:45 | | OK, a7r. |
| 21:09:45 | a7r | ibot: the familiar feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 21:09:54 | | a7r: I forgot familiar feed |
| 21:09:54 | a7r | ibot: forget familiar feed |
| 21:09:55 | | i think unstable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 21:09:55 | nikos | ibot: unstable feed |
| 21:09:57 | raman | a7r --yes. I copied the line from the PPP help nikos pointed me at --and changed /sbin/pppd to /usr/sbin/pppd for intimate |
| 21:10:05 | a7r | that works. |
| 21:10:12 | | stable feed is, like, at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/stable/packages/armv4l |
| 21:10:12 | a7r | ibot: stable feed? |
| 21:10:18 | | wish i knew, a7r |
| 21:10:18 | a7r | ibot: latest release? |
| 21:10:25 | | i heard latest familiar was at ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/dists/familiar/pre-release/v0.4/ |
| 21:10:25 | nikos | ibot: latest familiar |
| 21:10:30 | raman | a7r --when I kermit to it and try logging in as ppp it says invalid login. |
| 21:10:35 | | a7r: I forgot latest familiar |
| 21:10:35 | a7r | ibot: forget latest familiar |
| 21:11:09 | | OK, a7r. |
| 21:11:09 | a7r | ibot: latest familiar is at ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/familiar/releases/latest |
| 21:11:17 | | thanks Xunil96 :) |
| 21:11:17 | Xunil96 | ibot, botsnack |
| 21:11:18 | nikos | a7r: Good point. |
| 21:11:36 | a7r | raman: that's probably something in PAM not liking it.. what happens when you give it a password? |
| 21:12:11 | raman | same woes. passwd entry for ppp has :: ie empty passwd field. |
| 21:12:30 | a7r | raman: are you running with shadow or not? |
| 21:13:16 | a7r | the console should tell you why you can't log in. |
| 21:13:20 | raman | I do remember seeing a passwd- there --good catch --struggling again to login as root over the serial line |
| 21:13:38 | raman | cant see the console --nothing is showing up on the kermit side. |
| 21:15:33 | raman | a7r: remind me how shadow works --how do I get the shadow passwd file to reflect my having added user to /etc/passwd? |
| 21:15:58 | nikos | Shouldn't passwd command handle that for you? |
| 21:16:07 | a7r | raman: first, are you using it? if you are, it should just be a matter of setting the user's password again.. it should stick an entry it. |
| 21:16:16 | a7r | s/entry it/entry in/ |
| 21:16:22 | raman | well I added user ppp by echo > /etc/passwd |
| 21:16:25 | Tangent | I'll try to get PPP working here on my copy of intimate... |
| 21:16:37 | a7r | raman: you should probably use useradd or adduser next time. |
| 21:16:57 | raman | I'm assuming I'm using shadow because there is /etc/passwd- |
| 21:17:07 | a7r | raman: what about /etc/shadow? |
| 21:17:46 | raman | shadow exists -rw-r----- 1 nobody 99 684 Jun 11 2001 shadow |
| 21:17:58 | raman | passwd does not help since it wont take a blank password. |
| 21:17:58 | a7r | raman: that would be a yes.. ;) |
| 21:18:24 | a7r | raman: then use vipw |
| 21:18:50 | mpakula | is away... brb |
| 21:19:21 | raman | yikes --that launched vi inside an emacs shell buffer --gross! |
| 21:19:49 | a7r | hmm.. that's no good. |
| 21:20:01 | raman | how do I kill that safely now? |
| 21:20:09 | a7r | a :q! should do it.. |
| 21:20:10 | nikos | :q! |
| 21:20:18 | raman | no good -- |
| 21:20:30 | raman | I did use vi once :-) it's not quitting |
| 21:20:36 | a7r | control \ or a kill -TERM |
| 21:21:04 | raman | am going to login again hope I can. |
| 21:22:16 | raman | hozed! --it wont go away. |
| 21:22:52 | a7r | kill -9 it, it shouldn't nuke it. |
| 21:24:27 | nikos | Reboot? |
| 21:26:45 | tvraman | all hell broke loose --connected back to the ipaq from a terminal buffer in emacs that does a real terminal --but by then there was so much goop in the vi buffer that my pc went into a beeping loop --surprized my dog ... |
| 21:28:47 | tvraman | ipaq is still busy beeping on the serial console. |
| 21:30:13 | tvraman | looks very very badly hosed. |
| 21:30:29 | tvraman | can someone help! |
| 21:30:53 | tvraman | it's not just the vi buffer --something is seriously wrong --and I dont want to reset the ipaq it may blow my passwd file. |
| 21:31:28 | nikos | tvraman: Can you photon detecting friend use the LCD to kill and ppp processes? |
| 21:31:38 | nikos | s/you/your/ s/and/any/ |
| 21:32:11 | nikos | raman: I'm guessing that the serial noise is PPP. |
| 21:33:15 | tvraman | dont think so --it was stuck in the middle of my foolishly launching vipw without thinking what I was doing |
| 21:33:52 | nikos | tvraman: Hmm. I don't know what to say. I have to go now. Good luck. |
| 21:38:33 | tvraman | a7r --any clues? ipaq is still generating large amounts of line noise on the serial line. wont quit. |
| 21:38:55 | a7r | tvraman: just reboot it. |
| 21:39:29 | tvraman | will have to do that --genie that pushes the button is away again --sigh! (ipaq is sitting in a friend's office and I'm hacking it remotely) |
| 23:24:42 | Tiamat | hey folks :) |
| 23:36:48 | jacques_idle | Tiamat: hi |
| 23:55:24 | Tiamat | oops, sorry jacques_idle ... hi |