| 00:00:50 | mindrape | tanget: how familar are you with usb? |
| 00:01:05 | Tangent | mindrape : pretty good.. |
| 00:01:16 | mindrape | how many devices could the ipaq handle off its usb lines? |
| 00:02:47 | mindrape | i have a usb drive bay (not for portable use), could it be hooked up to the ipaq for additional storage? |
| 00:03:02 | mindrape | and hve usb networking going...probably a bit crazy |
| 00:03:58 | Tangent | The ipaq can't handle any devices... |
| 00:04:06 | Tangent | the ipaq is a client only device |
| 00:04:11 | Tangent | erm... what was it again... |
| 00:04:14 | Tangent | ipaq usb master |
| 00:04:22 | | See http://www.handhelds.org/pipermail/ipaq/2001-June/007453.html |
| 00:04:22 | Tangent | ibot usb master |
| 00:05:32 | mindrape | doh |
| 00:13:37 | esalazar | Are the Dual-Slot PC Card* Expansion Pack going to be supported as is when it is released or will there be some time while it is worked out? |
| 00:13:49 | Tangent | esalazar : It is released |
| 00:13:56 | Tangent | esalazar : Mine arrived yesterday |
| 00:14:02 | esalazar | Oh. Does it work with stock familiar 0.4? |
| 00:14:13 | Tangent | esalazar : It's not supported in stock familiar 0.4 |
| 00:14:26 | esalazar | Do you have yours working? |
| 00:14:27 | Tangent | esalazar : I haven't tried a newer kernel on it yet... |
| 00:14:36 | Tangent | No.. but I been busy with other stuff |
| 00:15:01 | esalazar | How much was it? The compaq page doesn't show yet. |
| 00:16:09 | Tangent | esalazar : £185 (GB Pounds) |
| 00:16:18 | Tangent | esalazar : including VAT |
| 00:16:37 | Tangent | I got it from www.expansys.com |
| 00:16:54 | Tangent | They also have them as www.dabs.co.uk |
| 01:12:33 | DW | raboof |
| 01:14:04 | DW | does the current 802.11 support in familiar include ibss mode? |
| 01:14:54 | DW | that's the only easy way I have here to get networking, so I don't want to bother with it tonight if I'm SOL on networking :) |
| 02:38:57 | | mkfs.jffs2 is in infradead.org's CVS under the mtd module. |
| 02:38:57 | jacques | ibot: mkfs.jffs2 |
| 03:03:41 | mindrape | mike: new pics of me http://24.1.221.174/~mindrape |
| 03:03:42 | mindrape | ack |
| 03:03:43 | mindrape | misfire |
| 03:03:45 | mindrape | ignore |
| 04:00:39 | esalazar | I've got ppp working between my ipaq and my linux box but how can I login to my ipaq? I get connection refused for everything even ssh? |
| 04:01:40 | esalazar | I tried rlogin -l guest ipaq as per howto and was refused |
| 04:01:54 | jacques | esalazar: what is installed on your ipaq? |
| 04:02:22 | esalazar | the basic setup for familiar 0.4, not the bootstrap, has X and etc. |
| 04:03:19 | jacques | esalazar: then you are using extremely old docs |
| 04:03:35 | jacques | esalazar: did you do the postinstall as mentioned in the familiar 0.4 install docs? |
| 04:03:39 | esalazar | yes |
| 04:03:48 | jacques | did you generate the ssh keys manually? |
| 04:03:48 | esalazar | I installed task-familiar-complete |
| 04:03:52 | esalazar | no |
| 04:04:02 | esalazar | I thought that was what the postinstall did |
| 04:04:32 | jacques | postinstall has a bug |
| 04:04:34 | esalazar | Even if ssh was working, I don't know what user I would log in as. I'm sort of confused about the user situation on familiar |
| 04:04:49 | | jacques: what? |
| 04:04:49 | jacques | ibot: ssh |
| 04:04:56 | | jacques: sorry... |
| 04:04:56 | jacques | ibot: sshkeys |
| 04:05:05 | | jacques: sorry... |
| 04:05:05 | jacques | ibot: ssh-keygen |
| 04:05:22 | esalazar | so... should I run ssh-keygen on the ipaq? |
| 04:05:34 | jacques | ssh-keygen -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_key -N '' |
| 04:05:35 | jacques | ssh-keygen -d -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key -N '' |
| 04:05:42 | jacques | run those |
| 04:05:46 | jacques | then make sure sshd starts |
| 04:06:16 | esalazar | I'll be scribbling for a few... |
| 04:10:52 | esalazar | It is generating my DSA key now. Once this is done and sshd is running, what user should I connect as from the desktop box? |
| 04:11:11 | jacques | esalazar: connect as user root passwd rootme |
| 04:12:21 | esalazar | ps -A |grep ssh returns nothing, so sshd isn't running right? Should I just start it by typing sshd? |
| 04:12:38 | jacques | esalazar: try /etc/init.d/ssh start |
| 04:12:41 | jacques | or something like that |
| 04:14:08 | esalazar | Thanks. It is working now. |
| 04:28:28 | mindrape | qpe is wild |
| 04:30:19 | jacques | mindrape: you like it? |
| 04:30:46 | mindrape | jacques: very much so |
| 04:31:35 | jacques | mindrape: yeah, I was running the x86 demo and i like it a lot too |
| 04:33:18 | mindrape | it runs alot slower on an actual ipaq |
| 04:33:31 | mindrape | but thats ok |
| 04:33:31 | jacques | mindrape: hmmm. |
| 04:33:44 | mindrape | next task, figure out how to mount muh ipaq sideways |
| 04:33:49 | mindrape | on muh keyboard |
| 04:34:04 | jacques | heh, if you figure it out, let me know :-) |
| 04:35:19 | mindrape | another gent in here today was talking about extending his keyboard with a usb port by tapping into the usb lines |
| 04:35:25 | mindrape | that would be kewl |
| 04:35:46 | jacques | interesting |
| 04:36:49 | mindrape | i'm not familar with electronics, but i do wonder if hacking in support for such would cause a drain on the powersupply, but then again if you have a usb connection going, you probably have a/c available |
| 04:46:50 | mindrape | oh this bites |
| 04:46:54 | mindrape | when it goes into suspend mode |
| 04:46:58 | mindrape | the keyboard quits wokring |
| 04:47:01 | mindrape | err working |
| 04:47:06 | mindrape | any known fixes? |
| 04:51:53 | esalazar | How do I set up name resolution? I'm used to having an /etc/resolve.conf file and that is it. I didn't find this file on my familiar and making the file didn't make dns lookups work. |
| 04:52:32 | esalazar | I otherwise have masquerding working to the internet if I use ip adresses |
| 04:55:47 | esalazar | nevermind. In redhat it is resolve.conf. In familiar it is resolv.conf |
| 04:58:43 | esalazar | Is there something like less or more installed? ipkg list | more for example? |
| 05:01:17 | mindrape | i don't think so |
| 05:01:21 | mindrape | but there is a less package |
| 05:01:31 | mindrape | right now i'm fighting with muh keyboard NOT working |
| 05:01:33 | mindrape | =( |
| 05:16:25 | esalazar | This default shell is really frustrating. I'm used to having my shell ready to go out of the box with bash. |
| 05:16:59 | esalazar | How do I resume a job that I have suspended. I usually do %1 & but it says %1 not found |
| 05:20:55 | jacques | how about fg |
| 05:21:14 | jacques | why not install the bash.ipk ? |
| 05:37:19 | mindrape | jacques: do you know of a fix for keyboard suspension problems? |
| 05:37:49 | jacques | mindrape: no, sorry |
| 05:38:20 | jacques | mindrape: I think the stowaway module or stowd need some work |
| 05:38:51 | mindrape | if i have some time, i might take a look at it |
| 05:39:21 | kirma | hmh, summer started suddenly |
| 05:39:35 | kirma | it's not 10am yet and it's quite hot outside already |
| 05:40:01 | jacques | kirma: how hot? |
| 05:40:54 | kirma | well, something like 21 degrees and high humidity and no wind |
| 05:41:07 | kirma | not that hot for you probably, but anyway... ;> |
| 05:42:40 | kirma | it has been below 15 degrees until couple days ago... |
| 05:42:46 | jacques | kirma: well, everything's relative |
| 05:43:04 | kirma | centigrade of course :] |
| 05:43:34 | | jacques: San Jose, San Jose International Airport, CA, United States; (KSJC) 37-21-33N 121-55-27W 25M; last updated: Jun 25, 2001 01:53 AM EDT; Dew Point: 48.0 F (8.9 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.07 in. Hg (1018 hPa); Pressure tendency: 0.02 inches (0.6 hPa) higher than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 64%; Sky conditions: clear; Temperature: 60.1 F (15.6 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the N (010 degrees) at 8 MPH (7 KT) |
| 05:43:34 | jacques | ibot: weather ksjc |
| 05:43:58 | jacques | 15.6 here |
| 05:44:09 | jacques | almos midnight tho |
| 05:45:07 | | kirma: Helsinki-Malmi, Finland; (EFHF) 60-15N 025-03E 28M; last updated: Jun 25, 2001 02:20 AM EDT; Dew Point: 42 F (6 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.91 in. Hg (1013 hPa); Pressure tendency: 0.02 inches (0.6 hPa) higher than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 35%; Sky conditions: clear; Temperature: 71 F (22 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: Variable at 1 MPH (1 KT) |
| 05:45:07 | kirma | ibot: weather efhf |
| 05:45:11 | | kirma: Helsinki-Vantaa, Finland; (EFHK) 60-19N 024-58E 56M; last updated: Jun 25, 2001 02:20 AM EDT; Dew Point: 48 F (9 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.94 in. Hg (1014 hPa); Pressure tendency: 0.02 inches (0.6 hPa) higher than three hours ago; Relative Humidity: 49%; Sky conditions: clear; Temperature: 68 F (20 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: Calm |
| 05:45:11 | kirma | ibot: weather efhk |
| 07:31:29 | izn0g | yoh ! |
| 10:04:52 | mace | anyone awake? |
| 10:08:32 | jacques | kinda |
| 10:10:33 | mace | heh |
| 11:57:00 | mallum | hmm, I just did an ipkg upgarde ( unstable ) |
| 11:57:10 | mallum | and now blackbox has REALLY BIG fonts |
| 13:46:10 | mpakula | cworth: if i got file *.tar.gz or *.gz is it enough to zmodem it into ipaq and run install *.tar.gz ? |
| 13:46:54 | nikos | mpakula: .tar.gz could be anything. |
| 13:47:17 | nikos | mpakula: You would have to have directions, possibly included in the tarball. |
| 13:50:12 | mpakula | nikos: I got videoconferencing tool vic...gz from technical point of view install command schould install it, does it ? |
| 13:50:43 | nikos | mpakula: What install command are you talking about? |
| 13:51:28 | nikos | mpakula: Any installation utility has to be able to expect the installation file to have a standardized format, .tar.gz is just a compressed fileset, it could contain anything. |
| 13:52:24 | mpakula | nikos: can familiar decompress it then ? |
| 13:52:52 | nikos | mpakula: Yes. Are you familiar with the tar command? |
| 13:53:05 | mpakula | nikos: not really |
| 13:53:23 | nikos | mpakula: I would recommend reading up on Unix utilities. |
| 13:53:36 | nikos | mpakula: tar ztvf <filename> should give you a directory listing. |
| 13:53:47 | nikos | mpakula: tar zxvf <filename> should extract the file into the current directory |
| 13:54:56 | mpakula | nikos: while downloading using zmodem should I use no flow controll like with xmodem ? |
| 13:55:19 | nikos | mpakula: Yes, the ipaq does not support flow control. It's a hardware thing. |
| 13:57:04 | mallum | http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/xkbd |
| 13:58:25 | mpakula | nikos: thanks, oh and btw few days ago when my battery went dead I couldnt put it back from suspend reset of ipaq didn't help and I had to hard reset it :o( |
| 13:58:46 | mpakula | nikos: I hope that was just an accidental thing ;o) |
| 14:00:54 | nikos | mpakula: I'm not sure, there have been other reports of problems with the ipaq recovering from full power failure. I'm not sure it is Linux related though. |
| 14:01:13 | nikos | mallum: Looks good |
| 14:02:55 | nikos | mallum: It think xkbd might look a little better if the background were a different color or shade. |
| 14:03:26 | nikos | mallum: And it would also be cool to be able to define colors for different sections of the keyboard too. |
| 14:03:36 | mallum | nikos: When I do some more work on it Im gonna make the colors defineable from the config file |
| 14:03:47 | nikos | mallum: Cool, looks a little drab in all gray. ;) |
| 14:04:00 | mallum | nikos |
| 14:04:11 | mallum | : the colors are easy to dchnge from the src |
| 14:04:50 | mallum | nikos: I really should rewrite some of it, the code is getting a little messy where I've been adding unplanned features |
| 14:05:27 | nikos | mallum: :) That happens... |
| 14:08:53 | mallum | nikos: yeah, very easily with c |
| 14:10:16 | mallum | takes cat out for walk |
| 14:10:19 | mallum | is away: stuff to do........ |
| 14:10:37 | cworth | mpakula: I actually made a package of vic once, would you be interested in it? |
| 14:20:24 | dneuer | cworth: what package is /sbin/hotplug in? |
| 14:25:25 | cworth | dneuer: no idea I'm afraid. `ipkg search /sbin/hotplug` will tell you where it came from if you have it installed, (but I'm guessing you're looking to install it instead). |
| 14:28:57 | nikos | is away: Errands... |
| 14:35:00 | dneuer | cworth: you're a good guesser ;-) |
| 14:48:07 | mallum | is back (gone 00:37:48) |
| 14:58:43 | dneuer | cworth: actually, looks like /sbin/hotplug is missing from task-familiar-complete as well |
| 14:59:13 | cworth | dneuer: quite possible. What's its purpose? |
| 14:59:48 | dneuer | cworth: userspace helper to fire up drivers for hot-pluggable hardware |
| 15:00:01 | dneuer | cworth: upon device insertion |
| 15:00:23 | dneuer | cworth: called from inside the kernel |
| 15:00:52 | sjohnson | is away: lunch |
| 15:00:57 | dneuer | cworth: when it detects an unknown device added at runtime |
| 15:01:26 | dneuer | cworth: there's code in the sleeve driver that calls it, but it fails (because it ain't there) |
| 15:03:01 | cworth | dneuer: hmmm... my Debian laptop doesn't have it either. |
| 15:05:06 | dneuer | cworth: I believe it's part of 'usb-utils', on http://www.linux-usb.org |
| 15:08:09 | dneuer | cworth: hmm. Looks like it's currently only for USB and CardBus stuff, not yet upgraded to work w/ pcmcia_cs. Do you know how the hotplugging of PCMCIA cards works? |
| 15:10:53 | nikos | is back |
| 15:13:04 | cworth | dneuer: pcmcia-cs fires up scripts in /etc/pcmcia depending on the device type. |
| 15:16:50 | dneuer | cworth: yes, but how is cardmgr notified that a device was inserted? |
| 16:18:55 | esalazar | I have the alt stuck on and now can't interact with any apps. Even xkbd doesn't cooperate. Any suggestions? |
| 16:19:23 | nikos | cworth: Did keithp ever track down the stuck modifier bug? |
| 16:19:30 | nikos | esalazar: Probably have to restart X. |
| 16:20:35 | esalazar | Hmm. How do I do that if I can't even type? If I do scribble it all comes out alt'ed |
| 16:21:07 | nikos | esalazar: Either ssh, or on the serial console. |
| 16:21:55 | esalazar | Are packages installed with ipkg permanent if I reboot? |
| 16:24:03 | nikos | esalazar: Yes. They are stored in flashrom. |
| 16:24:26 | sjohnson | is back |
| 16:26:50 | esalazar | This is off the subject, but, is slashdot shut down? |
| 16:27:09 | nikos | I'm reading it right now. |
| 16:28:46 | esalazar | weird, slashdot.com doesn't work anymore. |
| 16:29:49 | nikos | I always use slashdot.org |
| 16:30:12 | nikos | But both work for me, there were serious routing problems this weekend, maybe they aren't completely over. |
| 16:31:26 | cworth | nikos: no, stuck modifier is still outstanding AFAIK. I can ask Keith tomorrow though. ;-) |
| 16:32:39 | nikos | cworth: Thanks, this is the second report of the situation recently. |
| 16:40:42 | esalazar | I use ttyS0 for my mouse. I have had no luck getting ttyS1 to work at all. So far all I've had to use my mouse port to connect to my ipaq. Is there something special I have to do to get a second com working on linux? |
| 16:51:53 | mallum | is away: stuff to do........ |
| 16:52:12 | nikos | esalazar: Hardware? ;) |
| 16:52:22 | nikos | esalazar: There is only one serial and one IR port. |
| 16:54:14 | Nermal | esalazar: have you checked the perms of /dev/ttyS1 ? |
| 16:56:16 | | ipaq serial is at http://handhelds.org/minihowto/h3600-serial-cable.html |
| 16:56:16 | nikos | ibot: ipaq serial |
| 16:56:24 | nikos | ttsS1 is the IR port I think. |
| 16:59:37 | esalazar | I'm talking about the ports on my desktop computer. I have the ipaq working fine |
| 17:00:25 | esalazar | ls -l ttyS1 |
| 17:00:25 | esalazar | crw-r----- 1 root uucp 4, 65 May 22 02:07 ttyS1 |
| 17:00:25 | esalazar | [esalazar@steve /dev]$ ls -l ttyS0 |
| 17:00:26 | esalazar | crw-rw---- 1 root uucp 4, 64 Jun 25 10:29 ttyS0 |
| 17:00:54 | nikos | esalazar: Ah sorry. |
| 17:00:58 | esalazar | ttyS1 isn't group writable, should that matter? |
| 17:01:13 | nikos | It might. |
| 17:06:00 | esalazar | nope. I fear the serial-HOWTO and setserial. |
| 17:07:11 | bdkearns | ttySA1 is IR port |
| 17:07:46 | nikos | bdkearns: Indeed, more confusion on my part, ttsSA[0|1] |
| 17:07:53 | nikos | *sigh* |
| 17:07:57 | nikos | s/tts/tty/ |
| 17:17:48 | mace | nods |
| 17:18:25 | mace | anyone awake? :) |
| 17:18:52 | nikos | Yes |
| 17:18:58 | nikos | Hello mace |
| 17:19:01 | mace | hi nikos |
| 17:19:06 | water | is debating whether to pay $30 for the serial cradle or to hack the usb cradle |
| 17:19:15 | mace | grins |
| 17:19:24 | nikos | waits for someone else to respond. ;) |
| 17:19:27 | mace | has both a serial and an usb cradle |
| 17:19:55 | water | i sooo hate hardware complexity |
| 17:20:03 | mace | heh |
| 17:20:13 | water | it'd be nice to have a RISC-style motherboard, but oh well |
| 17:22:28 | mace | anyone here like to own up to having compiled a kernel for an iPAQ? |
| 17:22:45 | water | you mean for it and on it? |
| 17:22:48 | mace | (i bet you can't guess what the next question will be.. ;-) |
| 17:23:00 | mace | for it, using the skiff toolset |
| 17:23:08 | nikos | Many have, even on it. |
| 17:23:18 | water | oh btw i hear my full 64mb is not simply supported by the handhelds.org kernel, is that true? |
| 17:23:27 | nikos | water: Untrue. |
| 17:23:39 | mace | water: afair you have to specify it as a boot option |
| 17:23:48 | nikos | water: Familiar current kernel requires a kernel configuration option. |
| 17:23:55 | nikos | water: Newer kernels will handle it more easily. |
| 17:24:04 | nikos | Like mace says... |
| 17:24:35 | nikos | That should not be necessary with more recent kernels than 2.4.4 or so. |
| 17:24:49 | mace | basically, i've checked out from cvs the latest kernel sources, but either I'm asking too much of it, or there are problems |
| 17:25:01 | water | ok |
| 17:25:14 | mace | i'm assuming that i've asked too much of it, so i'm wondering whether anyone has an example config i can use |
| 17:25:14 | nikos | mace: There are problems I'm sure. Jamey is working on current CVS right now. |
| 17:25:29 | mace | nikos: ah fair play |
| 17:25:54 | mace | what's the state of play as far as extra helping hands are concerned? |
| 17:25:57 | nikos | mace: Best stable is 2.4.4-rmk3-np1-demo |
| 17:26:24 | mace | nikos: ok, i'll give that a go |
| 17:26:44 | nikos | mace: Hmm, good question. Not really well organized for multiple workers right now. Do you have a specific area you want to work on? |
| 17:27:10 | nikos | mace: I'm assuming you are talking about the Kernel specifically and not user-space. Is that correct? |
| 17:27:30 | mace | nikos: well i'm working on building a nice small, clean, tidy root image for a project at work |
| 17:27:42 | mace | nikos: nah, not the kernel, at least, not currently |
| 17:28:06 | nikos | mace: Ah, well anyone can submit packages, discussion should take place on familiar mailing list. |
| 17:28:21 | mace | is there a list of maintainers? |
| 17:28:31 | nikos | mace: In the Packages file. |
| 17:28:41 | nikos | mace: It works just like Debian. |
| 17:28:55 | mace | nikos: ah ok :) |
| 17:29:39 | nikos | mace: Many of the maintainers are just place holders, if you see a package you are interested in maintaining, send the maintainer email, they may very well be happy to pass it over to you. |
| 17:29:53 | mace | nods |
| 17:30:01 | water | hm |
| 17:30:26 | water | maybe i and a squeaker i know could maintain a squeak package :) |
| 17:30:56 | nikos | water: Very good. I asked Kevin Golden (sp?) but haven't heard much word other than general intentions. |
| 17:31:30 | water | ok |
| 17:31:31 | water | well the vm i can't support myself, but configuration would be simple |
| 17:31:39 | nikos | water: If you do so, please seperate vm, images, and sources into seperate packages. |
| 17:32:00 | water | hm |
| 17:32:23 | water | ok but of course they'd still need to be all in one spot |
| 17:32:25 | mace | i'm assuming that ipkg is some kind of simple replacement for apt-get/dpkg? |
| 17:32:32 | nikos | water: All in one spot? |
| 17:32:41 | nikos | mace: Yes. |
| 17:32:42 | | well, ipkg is the Itsy Package Management System used by Familiar: http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG |
| 17:32:42 | nikos | ibot: ipkg |
| 17:32:45 | water | on an ftp site or whatever |
| 17:32:59 | nikos | water: Ah, well newer ipkg will support multiple package repositories. |
| 17:33:06 | nikos | water: Either way, it should not be a problem. |
| 17:33:12 | water | ok |
| 17:33:53 | mace | wonders if there is really no 'find' utility packaged up? |
| 17:34:48 | | hmmm... stable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/stable/packages/armv4l |
| 17:34:48 | nikos | ibot: stable feed |
| 17:35:39 | nikos | mace: Doesn't look like it. |
| 17:35:55 | mace | might do that one at some point |
| 17:39:12 | water | gah, choices choices ... |
| 17:39:28 | nikos | water: Any possibility you might be able to buy a serial cable or cradle locally? |
| 17:39:44 | water | nope |
| 17:39:44 | nikos | water: Hacking the cradle is a bit tedious. |
| 17:39:52 | water | i haven't seen any ipaqs in local stores |
| 17:40:00 | nikos | More or less the same here. |
| 17:40:06 | water | yeah i guess my time is more valuable |
| 17:40:14 | nikos | water: I'm sure you could find some place to ship it overnight. |
| 17:40:35 | water | sees what other hardware he can add to the order to minimize shipping overhead |
| 17:40:44 | nikos | wireless! ;) |
| 17:40:49 | nikos | dual sleeve... |
| 17:41:03 | nikos | Dual sleeve won't work right now with released kernels though... |
| 17:41:25 | water | actually |
| 17:41:33 | water | that was what i thought would work originally |
| 17:41:41 | nikos | What's that? |
| 17:41:46 | water | since my ibook has wireless already |
| 17:42:00 | nikos | That WILL work with Linux. But not with the bootloader. |
| 17:42:08 | water | but it seems the ipaq only gets this crappy proprietary service antenna |
| 17:42:17 | nikos | ? |
| 17:42:25 | nikos | You can use any CF/PCMCIA cards you like. |
| 17:42:31 | water | ok what wireless options do you know of for the ipaq? |
| 17:42:46 | nikos | Orinoco, Compaq, etc. I"m not an expert. |
| 17:42:48 | water | um i thought ipaq didn't take CF? |
| 17:42:57 | nikos | water: There's a CF sleeve. |
| 17:43:09 | nikos | water: Or you can use a CF/PCMCIA adapter in one of the PCMCIA sleeves. |
| 17:43:21 | nikos | water: But the ipaq does NOT do CardBUS, so watch out for that. |
| 17:43:24 | water | have people successfully used 802.11 with ipaq? if so, what's the simplest solution? |
| 17:43:45 | nikos | water: Indeed, many people use it. In fact with the right AP setup, it works with no configuration. |
| 17:43:53 | water | this slot is NOT CF |
| 17:43:57 | nikos | water: Orinoco (wavelan) cards are probably the simplest currently. |
| 17:44:05 | nikos | water: There are NO slots without an addon sleeve. |
| 17:44:12 | water | heh |
| 17:44:15 | nelson | Anybody know which package /sbin/ide_info is in? |
| 17:44:31 | nikos | nelson: ipkg can tell you if you have it installed. |
| 17:44:44 | nelson | I don't have it installed. That's the problem! |
| 17:44:44 | water | "hey you have to buy yet another adapter to use your hardware" :P |
| 17:44:46 | nikos | ipkg search <file> or something like that. |
| 17:45:31 | nikos | nelson: h0.handhelds.org: find /home/ftp/pub/linux/dists/familiar/releases/packages/H3600/armv4l/unpackaged/ -name ide_info |
| 17:45:45 | nelson | Blargh. Yeah, that will work, but still. |
| 17:45:52 | nikos | nelson: That requires of course that it is in v0.4. And my path is not quite right there either. |
| 17:47:31 | nelson | Hmmm.... unstable has no unpackaged directory. |
| 17:47:58 | water | puts together an order for all the HW parts he needs now :P |
| 17:48:05 | Guest77332 | I have a question: how can I connect my Ipaq to the network after I've installed v0.4? |
| 17:48:20 | nikos | nelson: Indeed, I've asked a7r to add that to feeds and he has expressed the intention... |
| 17:48:40 | nikos | Guest77332: ppp, usbnet, ethernet, wireless, etc, etc, ... |
| 17:49:17 | Guest77332 | I don't have ethernet, I can only connect to my pc using serial... |
| 17:49:30 | nikos | Guest77332: Then you can use PPP probably. |
| 17:49:37 | | Tangent: excuse me? |
| 17:49:37 | Tangent | ibot ppp howto |
| 17:49:44 | nelson | Oh, great, there *is* no ide_info anywhere in 0.4. So how do I mount my flash disk? |
| 17:49:54 | Guest77332 | can you help me out (i'm quite new to this) |
| 17:49:58 | nikos | Guest77332: If you have Linux and USB, then usbnet is much faster than ppp over serial. |
| 17:50:08 | | OK, Tangent. |
| 17:50:08 | Tangent | ibot ppp howto is <reply> http://www.handhelds.org:8080/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 17:50:21 | | flash is Flash memory (sometimes called "flash RAM") is a type of constantly-powered nonvolatile memory that can be erased and reprogrammed in units of memory called blocks. |
| 17:50:21 | nelson | ibot: flash? |
| 17:50:25 | | nelson: i haven't a clue |
| 17:50:25 | nelson | ibot: ide? |
| 17:50:27 | Guest77332 | unfortunately, I only have a serial connection |
| 17:50:27 | nikos | nelson: The partitions should be announced by cardmgr on insert. |
| 17:50:33 | | somebody said pcmcia was hosed. that's why cardmgr appeared to segv |
| 17:50:33 | nelson | ibot: pcmcia? |
| 17:50:41 | | nikos: I forgot pcmcia |
| 17:50:41 | nikos | ibot: forget pcmcia |
| 17:50:55 | nikos | Guest77332: See the URL ibot specified above. |
| 17:51:11 | nikos | Tangent: Please don't use port 8080 |
| 17:51:12 | nelson | cardmgr[61]: executing: './ide start hda' |
| 17:51:12 | nelson | cardmgr[61]: + ./ide: /sbin/ide_info: not found |
| 17:51:25 | nikos | Tangent: I realize YOU use it, but don't advertise it. |
| 17:51:48 | nikos | nelson: Odd, not seen that before. |
| 17:52:00 | | nikos: I forgot ppp howto |
| 17:52:00 | nikos | ibot: forget ppp howto |
| 17:52:14 | Tangent | nikos : I didn't specify port 80... |
| 17:52:16 | Tangent | erm 8080 |
| 17:52:18 | | OK, nikos. |
| 17:52:18 | nikos | ibot: ppp howto is <reply> http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 17:52:27 | Tangent | that's where the link points to from the Howto dir |
| 17:52:35 | nikos | Tangent: Ah, that's OLD then. |
| 17:52:57 | Guest77332 | nelson: thanks !! |
| 17:53:15 | water | hm |
| 17:53:22 | nelson | Guest77332: You're welcome!! (what did I do?) |
| 17:53:50 | nelson | nikos: cardmgr runs /etc/pcmcia/ide, which runs ide_info. |
| 17:54:27 | nikos | nelson: That doesn't sound like past behaviour, maybe there is an incomplete change in unstable? |
| 17:58:09 | nelson | that's what cardmgr does in v0.4 |
| 17:58:28 | mallum | is back (gone 01:06:34) |
| 17:58:38 | mallum | is away: stuff to do........ |
| 17:59:05 | nikos | nelson: Odd that no one has complained about this before to my knowledge. |
| 17:59:23 | mace | nikos: we've had that problem come up here as well |
| 17:59:41 | mace | nikos: someone mentioned it to me earlier, i've only just remembered about it |
| 18:00:11 | nikos | v0.4 has been out for a long time, I don't remember it previously. |
| 18:00:34 | nelson | Maybe someone on #hh.o knows? |
| 18:01:14 | nikos | possible.. |
| 18:08:04 | nelson | seemingly not. :( |
| 18:08:35 | nikos | Wouldn't the udrive count in this context? |
| 18:11:17 | nelson | You'd think. Hey Tangent! |
| 18:11:34 | nikos | kick him and BBrox and sjohnson |
| 18:11:39 | Tangent | reads the history |
| 18:11:44 | mace | leaves for the night |
| 18:11:48 | mace | cheers for the assistance |
| 18:11:55 | nikos | night mace |
| 18:12:07 | sjohnson | perks up |
| 18:12:31 | BBrox | nikos: huh ? |
| 18:12:34 | nikos | :) |
| 18:12:38 | nelson | :) |
| 18:12:48 | mace | night nikos |
| 18:12:49 | nikos | Scroll up and comment on nelson's CF complaints please. |
| 18:12:53 | Tangent | Ok.. so what's the problem? ide_info failing? |
| 18:13:04 | nikos | alleged non-existence |
| 18:13:05 | nelson | Actually, as it turns out, I can fit the files I need into system flash, so it's not urgent. |
| 18:13:10 | Tangent | Yeah.. that's normal |
| 18:13:18 | nelson | ls /sbin/ide_info |
| 18:13:30 | nelson | ls: /sbin/ide_info: No such file or directory |
| 18:13:35 | nikos | cardmgr seems to be complaining about such non-existence in this case. |
| 18:13:53 | Tangent | I think it's non-existance is normal... |
| 18:14:00 | Tangent | I've seen the error lots of times |
| 18:14:04 | nikos | I don't argue that. |
| 18:14:06 | sjohnson | ide_info is not included in any of the familiar distros. I've always have to add it myself. |
| 18:14:07 | Tangent | and it's never stopped anything from working |
| 18:14:12 | nikos | Should it be listing partitions at that point? |
| 18:14:17 | nikos | s/Should/Shouldn't/ |
| 18:15:30 | sjohnson | ide_info is used by the cardmgr scripts to get Mfgr type and serial number. Those are passed to the ide and ide.opts scripts to help automount ide drives |
| 18:16:14 | nelson | Tangent: in fam 0.4, if ide_info doesn't work, you get a usage message and it craps out. |
| 18:17:24 | Tangent | nelson : Hmm... not sure |
| 18:17:57 | Tangent | nelson I know that if it says unable to get resource info (socket 0) (or something similar) that it'll fail |
| 18:18:02 | Tangent | and I know how to fix that |
| 18:18:08 | Tangent | but not the ide_info stuff |
| 18:19:54 | sjohnson | Tangent: That "Resource unavailable" problem was with old kernels. If a IDE devices are inserted, ejected and then reinserted, the "Resource unavailable" error messages would occur. |
| 18:20:25 | sjohnson | Tangent: The only way to recover was to reboot. |
| 18:21:52 | sjohnson | The "./ide: /sbin/ide)info: not found" error is becuase ide_info has not included with any Familiar distro. I've had to copy it from the HH.org distro. |
| 18:22:07 | nelson | What is fuser? |
| 18:22:15 | nelson | cardmgr[61]: executing: './ide stop hda' |
| 18:22:15 | nelson | cardmgr[61]: + fuser: not found |
| 18:22:46 | sjohnson | nelson: fuser lists any users that have locks on devices or files. |
| 18:23:53 | nelson | sjohnson: tnx. So its absence is not fatal. |
| 18:23:56 | sjohnson | nelson: To get card services to aumount ide devices upon isertion, you need inde_info and you have to edit /etc/pcmcia/ide.options. |
| 18:24:39 | nelson | Ahhhh. And ide_info isn't in fam 0.4. |
| 18:25:03 | nelson | ide.opts, but yeah, I get the picture. |
| 18:25:48 | sjohnson | nelson: Do you know what to enter in ide.opts? |
| 18:26:30 | nelson | Well, I commented out the call to ide_info, and I commented in the example lines in ide.opts |
| 18:26:36 | nelson | But still no go. |
| 18:27:23 | sjohnson | nelson: This is my my setup for my MP3 microdrive. |
| 18:27:23 | sjohnson | # ide_info /dev/hda |
| 18:27:23 | sjohnson | MODEL="IBM-DSCM-11000" |
| 18:27:23 | sjohnson | FW_REV="SC2IC915" |
| 18:27:23 | sjohnson | SERIAL_NO="KHLG0528" |
| 18:27:45 | sjohnson | The ide_info for my drive. |
| 18:27:54 | sjohnson | And now my ide.opts file |
| 18:27:57 | sjohnson | case "$ADDRESS" in |
| 18:27:57 | sjohnson | *,*,"KHLG0528",1) |
| 18:27:57 | sjohnson | INFO="MP3 microdrive" |
| 18:27:57 | sjohnson | DO_FSTAB="n" ; DO_FSCK="n" ; DO_MOUNT="y" |
| 18:27:57 | sjohnson | FSTYPE="vfat" |
| 18:27:58 | sjohnson | OPTS="noatime" |
| 18:28:00 | sjohnson | MOUNTPT="/mnt/hda" |
| 18:28:02 | sjohnson | ;; |
| 18:28:04 | sjohnson | *,*,*) |
| 18:28:06 | sjohnson | PARTS="1" |
| 18:28:07 | nelson | I think ide_info just calls it to make sure there's something in the drive. |
| 18:28:08 | sjohnson | # Card eject policy options |
| 18:28:10 | sjohnson | NO_CHECK=n |
| 18:28:12 | sjohnson | NO_FUSER=n |
| 18:28:14 | sjohnson | ;; |
| 18:28:16 | sjohnson | esac |
| 18:28:55 | sjohnson | My bad. That's an old file. |
| 18:29:17 | sjohnson | Hang on while I connect my ipaq |
| 18:31:32 | sjohnson | Here is the correct ide.opts file |
| 18:31:41 | sjohnson | case "$ADDRESS" in |
| 18:31:42 | sjohnson | *,*,"KHLG0528",1) |
| 18:31:42 | sjohnson | INFO="MP3 microdrive" |
| 18:31:42 | sjohnson | DO_FSTAB="n" ; DO_FSCK="n" ; DO_MOUNT="y" |
| 18:31:42 | sjohnson | FSTYPE="vfat" |
| 18:31:42 | sjohnson | OPTS="noatime" |
| 18:31:44 | sjohnson | MOUNTPT="/mnt/hda" |
| 18:31:46 | sjohnson | ;; |
| 18:31:48 | sjohnson | *,*,"KHLG0528") |
| 18:31:50 | sjohnson | PARTS="1" |
| 18:31:52 | sjohnson | NO_CHECK=y |
| 18:31:54 | sjohnson | NO_FUSER=y |
| 18:31:56 | sjohnson | *,*,*) |
| 18:31:58 | sjohnson | #PARTS="1" |
| 18:32:00 | sjohnson | # Card eject policy options |
| 18:32:02 | sjohnson | NO_CHECK=n |
| 18:32:04 | sjohnson | NO_FUSER=n |
| 18:32:06 | sjohnson | ;; |
| 18:32:08 | sjohnson | esac |
| 18:32:53 | sjohnson | The entry with the drive serial number and PARTS="1" sets the number of partitions to mount. |
| 18:34:01 | sjohnson | The entry with the serial number and the INFO="MP3 microdrive" is the part that does the actuall mounting of the partition. |
| 18:34:09 | nikos | Afternoon a7r |
| 18:34:16 | a7r | hey nikos.. |
| 18:34:51 | a7r | Boston is a pretty nice place right about now. |
| 18:36:17 | nelson | a7r: and you would know this how? |
| 18:36:35 | a7r | nelson: cuz I'm sitting in Burlington. |
| 18:37:25 | nelson | Sigh. Weather? |
| 18:37:32 | a7r | nice. |
| 18:37:38 | a7r | sunny.. breezy. |
| 18:37:47 | sjohnson | New England is nice this time of the year. |
| 18:37:49 | nelson | Burlington, MA or Burlington, VT? |
| 18:38:10 | a7r | MA |
| 18:38:28 | nelson | Ahhhhhh. Okay, I thought you were being sarcastic, while stuck in the Burlington Airport. |
| 18:39:07 | nelson | sjohnson: kewl. It was the "PARTS="1"" that I had missed. It's now automaounting just fine. |
| 18:39:45 | sjohnson | nelson: I took me quite a bit to figure it out myself. It's confusing. :> |
| 19:15:40 | gazer | a7r: hey. have you been dragged to softpro yet? |
| 19:45:24 | cadmann | Newbie question here: how much does the additional ram on the various iPaq models affect familiar performance? |
| 19:47:39 | nikos | cadmann: Much like any computer, more is better. |
| 19:48:05 | nikos | cadmann: But nearly everyone has a 32MB RAM model still, so Familiar has always been developed for those models. |
| 19:48:25 | nikos | cadmann: Totally dependent on what software you run. |
| 19:51:07 | cadmann | Since the OS is ROM-based, and all of the models are 16MB ROM, I assume from what you're saying is that I'll generally be only restricting myself on concurrent app software stuff in RAM. |
| 19:51:48 | nikos | cadmann: You can also store files in RAMFS, but that's totally up to you. |
| 19:54:45 | cadmann | Cool. I've been waiting to jump back into the handheld world since my Palm died. An iPaq is pricier than planned, but since reading about Familiar in detail, I'm seriously considering it. My main caution was about which model. I'm wanting a solution that will stick for a while. Thanks for the feedback. |
| 19:56:02 | nikos | Sure |
| 21:01:36 | tvraman | Tangent --raman here. got some time to intimate? |
| 21:01:51 | Tangent | Hi raman |
| 21:01:57 | Tangent | Yeah.. I can spare a bit of time |
| 21:02:28 | Tangent | raman, there is a #intimate channel however. We may be more on-topic to talk there |
| 21:02:46 | tvraman | P.s. under the old intimate install, after successfuly setting up the ppp user I still failed to get ppp going --get authentication errors. did everything including setuid of pppd --and I can login as ppp successfully via kermit -- but pppd call ipaq still barfs and logs are mysterious. |
| 21:03:18 | tvraman | Tangent --see you there in a minute. |
| 21:03:26 | Tangent | tvraman OK |
| 22:51:23 | esalazar | Is there anything like /var/log/messages I can look at to see if ppp errors are occuring? I'm trying to debug my serial connection. |
| 23:08:10 | esalazar | Someone told me how to fix my ssh postinstall, which I did successfully, but now ssh isn't working again, although it isn't refusing connections. Was the fix only temporary and not preserved over reboots? |
| 23:10:25 | esalazar | I get prompted for a root@ipaq password but then it just hangs after I type in rootme |