| 02:13:47 | LamBusser | Hi all. Does any know if there is a 'diff' tarball for familiar vs. plain Linux 2.4.x? |
| 03:20:44 | mutex | which one of the files in the familiar dist is the kernel? |
| 03:20:50 | mutex | i've got like 8 files named zImage |
| 03:21:02 | mutex | err 3 |
| 03:22:43 | mutex | zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1, zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1-fam1, zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1-fam2 |
| 03:24:00 | mutex | or are those different version |
| 03:24:01 | mutex | s |
| 03:31:33 | mutex | the install process is definatly not for the weak at heart... i'm having a bit of a hard time doing it |
| 03:31:37 | mutex | but i think i've got the hang of it now |
| 03:38:13 | jacquesZzZz | zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1 should be a symlink to zImage-2.4.3-rmk2-np1-fam2 |
| 03:38:28 | jacquesZzZz | -fam2 has a couple of bug fixes over -fam1 |
| 03:39:39 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: do i want the bootstrap package? or the complete ? |
| 03:40:17 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: depends on what you want to do - bootstrap is very stripped down |
| 03:40:39 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: if you are going to install X and other familiar apps, you should probably go with complete - it will save much time |
| 03:40:56 | mutex | that's what i figured, i'm uploading it right now... but the serial interface is slooooow |
| 03:41:07 | mutex | is doing this for the first time |
| 03:41:14 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yes it is |
| 03:42:55 | mutex | you can use the USB dock though right ? |
| 03:44:18 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: once you get the root flashed you can |
| 03:44:28 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: that's what I am doing |
| 03:45:40 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: so then... say you wanted to flash the root again, for whatever reason, or the kernel even.. have to hook it back up through serial ? |
| 03:46:09 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: well... |
| 03:46:32 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: since I am using intimate, I can flash kernel and root from inside linux |
| 03:46:57 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: but in familiar, you can transfer kernel to ramfs and then cp it to /dev/mtdblock2 |
| 03:47:19 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: the root partition cannot be flashed from within intimate AFAIK |
| 03:47:21 | mutex | hmmm i see |
| 03:47:28 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: replace intimate with familiar in above line |
| 03:49:10 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: flashing root from within familiar would be like trying to install linux from within linux |
| 03:49:25 | mutex | heh yeah |
| 03:49:59 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: and since the bootldr does not support usb, there is no way to flash root using usb |
| 03:50:32 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: i heard they were working on a way to support it with USB |
| 03:50:51 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: I wouldn't hold my breath |
| 03:53:06 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: what about an easier install process ;-) ? |
| 03:53:54 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: well, there is a way to install linux using a CF card now |
| 03:54:19 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: hmmm really? but then you have to get the expansion pack and the card right ? |
| 03:54:28 | jacquesZzZz | right |
| 03:54:55 | mutex | hmmm that seems like a large cost for an easy install |
| 03:55:41 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: well lots of ppl have a CF sleeve and a CD card |
| 03:56:17 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: hrm, it seems i am in the minority then... i'm really more interested in NOT needing windows for the install |
| 03:56:41 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: windows? you don't need windows for either install |
| 03:56:56 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: I have installed linux twice now without using windows at all |
| 03:57:12 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: hmmm i was under the impression you needed activesync to get booldr on it |
| 03:57:54 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: nope, you can setup a ppp connection using serial cradle, and then setup an http/ftp server on PC and use pocket explorer to get it to the ipaq |
| 03:58:19 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: bastards... nobody told me that |
| 03:58:30 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: there is a tiny PPC ftp server you can xfer across the same way, then you can ftp the flash images from the ipaq to the pc that way |
| 03:59:10 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: it is more convoluted than just using activesync, but for ppl without windows it works great |
| 03:59:15 | mutex | well it's too late now |
| 03:59:31 | mutex | how easy would it have been to return that software to microsoft and get a refund ? |
| 03:59:56 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: uh, right. if you figure out how to do that please let me know :-) |
| 04:00:02 | mutex | bastards |
| 04:00:20 | mutex | well i already broke the plastic, not possible now |
| 04:02:04 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: I kinda suspect that MS was secretly subsidizing the price of the ipaqs |
| 04:02:18 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: so that if they did not come with ppc they would actually cost more |
| 04:02:31 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: that is, until compaq reaised the prices a few months ago |
| 04:05:11 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: i see, so how fast does development go on familiar ? |
| 04:06:02 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: you mean development of familiar? or development of things on familiar? |
| 04:06:13 | mutex | both, kernel and apps |
| 04:07:12 | mutex | jumps up and down |
| 04:07:13 | mutex | it boots |
| 04:08:12 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: congrats |
| 04:08:39 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: i hear if you use python, things go pretty fast for app devel |
| 04:09:27 | mutex | jackquesZzZz: hmm should networking be going through the serial line? |
| 04:09:44 | sjohnson | jacquesZzZz: You neven give up on python, do you? ;) |
| 04:09:44 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: please elaborate |
| 04:10:06 | mutex | well the howto says to set up networking, i don' thave a network card |
| 04:10:17 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: actually it's not me - a7r and mallum and edwardam all love python |
| 04:10:40 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: I was trying to not let my own biases get in the way - I don't know python :-) |
| 04:10:43 | sjohnson | mutex: You can use ppp over the serial console or you can use USB networking. |
| 04:11:00 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: then the answer is yes - setup ppp over serial |
| 04:11:59 | mutex | hmmm |
| 04:12:25 | sjohnson | mutex: Familar has python and GTK. I was able to create a process viewer/killer program in a short amount of time. |
| 04:12:35 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: confused, so how would i go about doing that? |
| 04:12:46 | | i heard ppp was http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 04:12:46 | sjohnson | ibot: ppp |
| 04:13:16 | sjohnson | mutex: Read that web page. |
| 04:13:24 | mutex | pastes the link to galeon |
| 04:14:26 | mutex | hmmm it gets flashed when i reboot, that doesn't sound terribly useful |
| 04:14:39 | mutex | would it be any different/easier if i used the USB connector ? |
| 04:15:05 | sjohnson | mutex: What do you mean? |
| 04:15:21 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: ?? |
| 04:15:57 | mutex | "However, these changes will be lost when the iPAQ is shutdown." |
| 04:16:18 | jacquesZzZz | looks at that link. |
| 04:18:09 | sjohnson | mutex: That "...will be lost..." bit is pre-JFFS2. Don't worry about it. |
| 04:18:17 | mutex | ahh i see ok |
| 04:18:34 | jacquesZzZz | damn that's an old doc :-) |
| 04:18:40 | sjohnson | Just setup your host as described in the "Setting things up on the host |
| 04:18:40 | sjohnson | " section. |
| 04:18:42 | jacquesZzZz | before /etc was writable |
| 04:19:57 | jacquesZzZz | someone should update that doc |
| 04:20:10 | mutex | so i don't have to setup the stuff on the ipaq? |
| 04:20:37 | sjohnson | mutex: /etc/ppp/options and the ppp user in /etc/passwd are already setup. |
| 04:21:17 | sjohnson | The only things you may need are append "noauth" and/or "defaultroute" to /etc/ppp/options. |
| 04:22:02 | mutex | vi is the only editor on here eh ? |
| 04:22:05 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: familiar comes with the ipaq side of the ppp config mostly done |
| 04:22:14 | jacquesZzZz | sorry I mean mutex |
| 04:22:39 | jacquesZzZz | uh-oh. the familiar "vi" is kinda crappy |
| 04:22:48 | sjohnson | mutex: There also should be ae and pyditor. |
| 04:22:52 | jacquesZzZz | you might be better off using cat as your editor |
| 04:23:05 | jacquesZzZz | or one of the ones sjohnson recommended :-) |
| 04:24:54 | mutex | hmmm i seemed to have lost my minicom interface |
| 04:25:51 | jacquesZzZz | minicom is hung? |
| 04:25:54 | mutex | and now i cannot login |
| 04:26:08 | mutex | yeah after i started pyditor, it crashed on exit and i lost my prompt |
| 04:26:19 | sjohnson | mutex: You can reboot from the Blackbox menu Utilties -> Reboot -> Yes. |
| 04:26:40 | sjohnson | mutex: or do the usual ps -ef and kill from an xterm. |
| 04:27:15 | mutex | damnit |
| 04:27:19 | mutex | i so can't see these fonts |
| 04:27:34 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yeah, you need to do the postinstall to get the better fonts |
| 04:27:43 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: I can't read the default ones at all |
| 04:27:56 | mutex | ok rebooted it |
| 04:28:32 | sjohnson | mutex: Try vi aka iv. It's crappy but usable. |
| 04:29:03 | sjohnson | ae is another command line editor but it has emacs type key bindings |
| 04:29:15 | mutex | yeah i tried that but it didn't seem to be on there |
| 04:30:00 | sjohnson | Hmm. a7r must have yanked it from the default image. |
| 04:30:29 | mutex | lame |
| 04:30:31 | mutex | i hate vi |
| 04:30:36 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: cat and cut and paste are your friend :-) |
| 04:30:48 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: and ctrl-D |
| 04:31:10 | blended | i've been out of touch for about the past month, i was wondering, were the stowd problems ever resolve |
| 04:31:22 | jacquesZzZz | hi blended |
| 04:31:31 | blended | jacquesZzZz: yo |
| 04:31:40 | jacquesZzZz | blended: you mean the stowd not waking on resume from sleep? |
| 04:32:01 | mutex | how do you save in vi ? |
| 04:32:02 | blended | and not being able to use the port for ppp after using it for the keyboard |
| 04:32:10 | blended | mutex: :w |
| 04:32:18 | sjohnson | mutex: :w |
| 04:32:54 | jacquesZzZz | blended: latter problem is being solved by using init levels, wake problem not solved AFAIK |
| 04:33:04 | blended | k |
| 04:33:09 | blended | not worried about that so much |
| 04:33:59 | jacquesZzZz | blended: I know Tangent sovled the port problem using init levels at least for intimate - I'm sure he would be happy to tell you all about it |
| 04:34:07 | blended | jacquesZzZz: cool |
| 04:34:14 | blended | jacquesZzZz: anyone try running qpe? |
| 04:34:51 | sjohnson | blended: I seen several people on IRC running it. |
| 04:34:54 | jacquesZzZz | blended: several ppl I have talked to there is even a howto on installing it with intimate now |
| 04:35:01 | blended | cool |
| 04:35:20 | blended | jacquesZzZz: all you need is familar though right? |
| 04:35:37 | jacquesZzZz | blended: yep - now I remember there are actually ipk's for familiar |
| 04:35:56 | blended | wow |
| 04:35:59 | blended | thats cool |
| 04:36:00 | mutex | do i have to add the ppp modules too ? |
| 04:36:07 | sjohnson | mutex: No. |
| 04:36:12 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: they should be there |
| 04:36:21 | mutex | the are not |
| 04:36:26 | mutex | apm |
| 04:36:26 | mutex | h3600_ts |
| 04:36:26 | mutex | sa1100-rtc |
| 04:36:28 | mutex | that's it |
| 04:36:39 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: they are demand loaded |
| 04:36:39 | sjohnson | mutex: There will be loaded automagically. |
| 04:36:53 | mutex | ooooooh automagically! |
| 04:36:57 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: if it makes you feel better you can modprobe ppp-async |
| 04:37:25 | sjohnson | mutex: Try loggin in as ppp from minicom to make sure that the IPAQ is setup OK. |
| 04:37:36 | sjohnson | It might save a bit of hair pulling. |
| 04:37:36 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yeh, that's a great test |
| 04:38:29 | blended | jacquesZzZz: i have a very bad story about the past month i've been out of the loop |
| 04:38:45 | jacquesZzZz | blended: oh no :-( I hope everything's ok |
| 04:38:49 | blended | jacquesZzZz: suffice to say UPS destroyed my brandspankinnew-decked out system |
| 04:39:03 | jacquesZzZz | blended: those bastards!!! |
| 04:39:14 | blended | jacquesZzZz: it's going to take (has been taking) weeks to get it all sorted out and reimbursed |
| 04:39:38 | jacquesZzZz | blended: I always sus;pected it would not be easy to get reimbursed by them |
| 04:39:51 | mutex | doh: PAM_unix[95]: (login) session opened for user ppp by LOGIN(uid=0) |
| 04:39:52 | mutex | -pppd: In file /etc/ppp/options: unrecogn |
| 04:39:58 | blended | jacquesZzZz: yah, you're telling me. AMD T-Bird 1.3Ghz, 512MB DDR, GeForce 2GTS, and everything else top notch |
| 04:40:36 | blended | jacquesZzZz: it's almost as bad as trying to get money from an airline |
| 04:41:02 | sjohnson | mutex: Your line as cut off. Any more of the error message? |
| 04:41:22 | jacquesZzZz | blended: :-( :-( |
| 04:41:22 | mutex | no, it cut off like that |
| 04:41:47 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: do you have line wrap enabled in minicom? |
| 04:41:51 | sjohnson | mutex: You might need to turn on line wrapping in minicom. ctrl+a, w |
| 04:41:54 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: ctrl-A, W |
| 04:42:20 | jacquesZzZz | blended: that would be a truly sweet system - I have a TB 950 and it rocks |
| 04:43:06 | sjohnson | sniff, sniff. I've only got a 500Mz Celeron. |
| 04:43:09 | blended | jacquesZzZz: I was going to overclock it to 1.5 when i got back home to SF. ... that never happend. the box now sits beside me, dead |
| 04:43:24 | blended | jacquesZzZz: i cried for about a day |
| 04:43:47 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: nope still does it |
| 04:44:33 | blended | jacquesZzZz: i drove all over Houston getting the exact motherboard and parts and everything that i wanted, if i dont get my money, you hear about a terrorist attack on a UPS building :-) |
| 04:44:33 | blended | BOOM! |
| 04:44:33 | sjohnson | mutex: Turn on logging. ctrl+A, l |
| 04:44:59 | jacquesZzZz | blended: heh. I have thought about doing such things many times myself |
| 04:45:56 | jacquesZzZz | blended: I am so sorry to hear that happened to you :-( my condolences |
| 04:46:04 | blended | jacquesZzZz: have you heard if anyone fixed the clock problem... how it always resets itself after a reboot |
| 04:46:42 | mutex | hrm i turned on logging but it's not logging anything |
| 04:46:44 | jacquesZzZz | blended: ok here is the deal on the clock |
| 04:47:03 | blended | jacquesZzZz: thanks, im recovering ok... if i didn't have my girlfriend, the loss would be too great to bear. Sorry you missed the memorial service. |
| 04:47:15 | jacquesZzZz | blended: a simple reboot does not screw up the clock - but familiar has a line in the /linuxrc that sets it to jan 1st on boot |
| 04:47:16 | sjohnson | mutex: You need to turn it off to force the buffer to disk. |
| 04:47:42 | jacquesZzZz | blended: I commented out the line in the /linuxrc and now a simple reboot does not scrwe up my clock |
| 04:47:57 | jacquesZzZz | blended: a hard reset will always screw up the clock - even in CE |
| 04:48:03 | blended | jacquesZzZz: yah, i remember removing that line, but i still had other problems with my clock |
| 04:48:18 | blended | jacquesZzZz: i guess when i get familiar back up, i'll mess with it |
| 04:48:36 | blended | jacquesZzZz: well, that's understandable (hard reset) but i never do those |
| 04:48:48 | mutex | bastards |
| 04:49:01 | mutex | still get: -pppd: In file /etc/ppp/options: unrecogn |
| 04:49:15 | mutex | plus now my connect script: [root@emperor peers]# /usr/sbin/pppd call ipaq |
| 04:49:15 | mutex | Serial connection established. |
| 04:49:16 | mutex | ioctl(TIOCSETD): Invalid argument(22) |
| 04:49:29 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yeah OK I think that's pretty easy to fix |
| 04:50:31 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: remove this line from you /etc/ppp/options file on ipaq: /dev/ttySA0 |
| 04:50:44 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: it's just wrong |
| 04:50:58 | mutex | ok, removed |
| 04:51:19 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: and try again |
| 04:51:33 | mutex | still same errors |
| 04:52:06 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: hmmmmmmmm, that always worked for me |
| 04:52:17 | sjohnson | jacquesZzZz: /dev/ttySA0 is correct. It's somthing else. |
| 04:52:26 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: you turned on line wrap and you still don;t see the full error? |
| 04:52:32 | sjohnson | mutex: Can you cut and past your /etc/ppp/options files to IRC? |
| 04:53:05 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: correct |
| 04:53:17 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: ok, maybe my memory is failing me |
| 04:53:59 | mutex | # cat options mkdir /etc/ppp echo "-detach defaultroute noauth nocrtscts |
| 04:54:08 | mutex | man that didn't turn out the way it was suppsed to |
| 04:54:50 | sjohnson | "mkdir /etc/ppp" is in your /etc/options file? |
| 04:55:09 | jacquesZzZz | here's mine: (not guaranteed to work) |
| 04:55:13 | jacquesZzZz | intimate# cat options |
| 04:55:13 | jacquesZzZz | -detach |
| 04:55:13 | jacquesZzZz | nocrtscts |
| 04:55:13 | jacquesZzZz | lock |
| 04:55:13 | jacquesZzZz | lcp-echo-interval 5 |
| 04:55:14 | jacquesZzZz | lcp-echo-failure 3 |
| 04:55:15 | mutex | it told me to in the howto, i thought it was weird, but i tried it |
| 04:55:16 | jacquesZzZz | /dev/ttySA0 |
| 04:55:18 | jacquesZzZz | 115200 |
| 04:55:33 | jacquesZzZz | a7r: wow, wb |
| 04:55:40 | sjohnson | Hey a7r |
| 04:55:47 | a7r | jacquesZzZz: hey.. |
| 04:55:50 | a7r | hey sjohnson.. |
| 04:56:07 | sjohnson | mutex: This is my file : -detach |
| 04:56:07 | sjohnson | nocrtscts |
| 04:56:07 | sjohnson | lock |
| 04:56:07 | sjohnson | lcp-echo-interval 5 |
| 04:56:07 | sjohnson | lcp-echo-failure 3 |
| 04:56:08 | sjohnson | 115200 |
| 04:56:10 | sjohnson | defaultroute |
| 04:56:12 | sjohnson | noauth |
| 04:56:15 | a7r | I'm finally back in california after being left for dead in Boston. |
| 04:56:25 | jacquesZzZz | a7r: left for dead?? |
| 04:56:40 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: use sjohnson's |
| 04:56:55 | mutex | ah ha! |
| 04:56:58 | mutex | got it to work |
| 04:57:03 | jacquesZzZz | notices sjohnson does not have the /dev/ttySA0 line |
| 04:57:25 | mutex | darn |
| 04:57:36 | mutex | i can login as ppp now |
| 04:57:41 | mutex | but my connect script doesn't work |
| 04:57:46 | sjohnson | Argh. IRC swallowd it as an IRC command. |
| 04:57:56 | mutex | i hate that |
| 04:58:16 | sjohnson | mutex: You have to log out to a login prompt for the connect script to work. Or your might have some garbage in the tty buffers. |
| 04:58:28 | sjohnson | Just try it again. |
| 04:58:39 | mutex | yes sir, i'm dilligent |
| 04:59:03 | sjohnson | I though you were mutex? |
| 04:59:09 | mutex | well... i get that the device is locked if i'm running minicom |
| 04:59:12 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: you are getting closer |
| 04:59:25 | blended | why does familiar use jffs as opposed to maybe extfs or vfat or anything else, what are the merits? |
| 04:59:41 | blended | oops, girlfriend says time for dinner |
| 04:59:42 | blended | brb |
| 04:59:45 | sjohnson | blended: Were leveling of the flash memory. |
| 05:00:15 | mutex | so i have minicom at a login prompt, but the connect script says that there is a lock on ttyS0 |
| 05:00:43 | sjohnson | mutex: Exit minicom. Then fire up ppp |
| 05:01:08 | sjohnson | only one program to a port. ;) |
| 05:01:18 | mutex | that's what i thought, i was just makin sure |
| 05:02:06 | mutex | Connect script failed |
| 05:02:29 | sjohnson | mutex: Try it again. The connect script is brain dead. |
| 05:02:43 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: also - tail -f the /var/log/messages file |
| 05:02:46 | mutex | hmm that silly error again |
| 05:02:48 | mutex | Serial connection established. |
| 05:02:48 | mutex | ioctl(TIOCSETD): Invalid argument(22) |
| 05:03:12 | mutex | oh, hmm |
| 05:03:18 | mutex | this might be a problem with my kernel |
| 05:03:24 | mutex | probe: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 |
| 05:03:27 | sjohnson | mutex: What's in our /etc/ppp/peers/ipaq file? |
| 05:03:32 | mutex | doh |
| 05:04:10 | mutex | -detach |
| 05:04:10 | mutex | noauth |
| 05:04:10 | mutex | nocrtscts |
| 05:04:10 | mutex | lock |
| 05:04:10 | mutex | user ppp |
| 05:04:11 | mutex | connect '/usr/sbin/chat -v -t3 ogin--ogin: ppp' |
| 05:04:13 | mutex | 115200 |
| 05:04:15 | mutex | 192.168.1.100:192.168.1.101 |
| 05:04:47 | sjohnson | That looks right. |
| 05:05:09 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: anything in /var/log/messages ? |
| 05:05:18 | mutex | Jul 8 00:03:51 emperor modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 |
| 05:05:25 | mutex | i think i need to find that module and compile it |
| 05:05:28 | mutex | anybody know what it is ? |
| 05:05:45 | sjohnson | Hmmm. tty-ldisc-3 is the ppp_async module. |
| 05:05:47 | mutex | this is what the last few lines are |
| 05:05:49 | mutex | Jul 8 00:03:50 emperor chat[7311]: send (ppp^M) |
| 05:05:49 | mutex | Jul 8 00:03:51 emperor pppd[7310]: Serial connection established. |
| 05:05:50 | mutex | Jul 8 00:03:51 emperor modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module tty-ldisc-3 |
| 05:05:52 | mutex | Jul 8 00:03:51 emperor pppd[7310]: ioctl(TIOCSETD): Invalid argument(22) |
| 05:05:52 | mutex | Jul 8 00:03:52 emperor pppd[7310]: Exit. |
| 05:06:05 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: lsmod on PC ? |
| 05:06:19 | mutex | ppp_deflate 40732 0 (unused) |
| 05:06:19 | mutex | ppp_generic 15904 0 [ppp_deflate] |
| 05:06:19 | mutex | slhc 4708 0 [ppp_generic] |
| 05:06:19 | mutex | NVdriver 657848 15 (autoclean) |
| 05:06:21 | mutex | 3c59x 23676 1 (autoclean) |
| 05:06:25 | mutex | i had to compile my ppp so i could get this far |
| 05:06:31 | mutex | i didn't know what else to include |
| 05:06:53 | sjohnson | mutex: Try - modprobe ppp_async and see what happend |
| 05:07:02 | sjohnson | er happens. even |
| 05:07:33 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: NVdriver - me too :-) |
| 05:07:50 | mutex | jacquesZzZz: i have those POS nvidia drivers, grrr.. don't get me started |
| 05:07:57 | mutex | Jul 8 00:08:38 emperor chat[7331]: send (ppp^M) |
| 05:07:57 | mutex | Jul 8 00:08:38 emperor pppd[7330]: Serial connection established. |
| 05:07:57 | mutex | Jul 8 00:08:38 emperor pppd[7330]: ioctl(PPPIOCGFLAGS): Invalid argument |
| 05:07:59 | mutex | Jul 8 00:08:39 emperor pppd[7330]: tcsetattr: Invalid argument |
| 05:08:00 | mutex | Jul 8 00:08:39 emperor pppd[7330]: Exit. |
| 05:08:01 | mutex | that's my new error message |
| 05:08:20 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: do you have the ppp device ? |
| 05:08:34 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: are you running kernel 2.4.x and pppd older than 2.4.0 ? |
| 05:08:42 | mutex | i might be |
| 05:09:04 | mutex | pppd version 2.3.10 |
| 05:09:05 | mutex | doh |
| 05:09:37 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: you must upgrade (assuming you are running a 2.4.x kernel) |
| 05:09:45 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: older pppd simply will not work |
| 05:09:56 | mutex | i am... now i wonder what package it's in... |
| 05:10:01 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: what version are your modutils? |
| 05:10:02 | sjohnson | Der. I should have remembered this. I went through this exact same problems when 2.4.2 came out for the iPAQ. |
| 05:11:03 | sjohnson | mutex: You need pppd 2.4.0 |
| 05:11:35 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: what dist you running on PC? |
| 05:11:47 | mutex | looks around shamefully |
| 05:11:48 | mutex | redhat |
| 05:11:53 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: version? |
| 05:12:01 | mutex | heavily modified 6.2 |
| 05:12:10 | mutex | it's so old and full of who knows what version pacakges |
| 05:12:32 | sjohnson | mutex: It might be best to download the ppp-2.4.0 source and compile it. |
| 05:12:41 | mutex | i just tried that |
| 05:12:47 | mutex | pppoatm.c:15: atm.h: No such file or directory |
| 05:12:47 | mutex | pppoatm.c:17: linux/atmppp.h: No such file or directory |
| 05:12:48 | mutex | doh |
| 05:12:51 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yeh, that's what I did before I upgraded to 7.1 |
| 05:13:01 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: you need configged kernel source on your PC |
| 05:13:14 | mutex | well i have this atm.h |
| 05:13:16 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: linked to /usr/src/linux |
| 05:13:17 | mutex | but not atmppc |
| 05:13:21 | mutex | err ppp |
| 05:13:23 | jacquesZzZz | ppc? |
| 05:13:26 | jacquesZzZz | oh :-) |
| 05:13:34 | mutex | wait.. i mean pp |
| 05:14:11 | jacquesZzZz | I don;t have that file |
| 05:14:20 | mutex | neither do i |
| 05:14:29 | sjohnson | atmppp.h? I don't have that file either. |
| 05:15:36 | mutex | i dunno WTF it's talking about |
| 05:15:44 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: you have 2.4.x kernel source in /usr/src/linux ? |
| 05:15:48 | mutex | i have atm.h in a place it can see |
| 05:15:49 | mutex | yes |
| 05:16:25 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: where did you get that source? for ppp? |
| 05:16:35 | mutex | sourceforge |
| 05:18:00 | sjohnson | mutex: Why don't you try my source code. Can you accept DCC? |
| 05:18:03 | mutex | hmm still wants this atmppp |
| 05:18:12 | mutex | sjohnson: i'm not sure... you can try |
| 05:18:20 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: BTW, do you know what these are? net-pf-4 and net-pf-5 |
| 05:19:27 | sjohnson | Stand still mutex you moved. :) |
| 05:19:31 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: um, you are sending it to me :-) |
| 05:20:18 | sjohnson | jacquesZzZz: i don't recall off handle. I think one of them is appletalk. |
| 05:20:20 | mutex | sighs |
| 05:21:28 | mutex | hmmm where did the file go |
| 05:21:36 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: I get tons of these error messages: |
| 05:21:47 | jacquesZzZz | Jul 3 04:00:08 meccano modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-4 |
| 05:21:47 | jacquesZzZz | Jul 3 04:00:08 meccano modprobe: modprobe: Can't locate module net-pf-5 |
| 05:22:14 | sjohnson | jacquesZzZz: It's just insmod complaning that it can't find modules for those network protocols. |
| 05:22:57 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: yeah, I have been treating them as benign, but they annoy me |
| 05:23:13 | mutex | it seems to be compiling |
| 05:23:31 | mutex | ah ha! |
| 05:23:34 | mutex | it's working! |
| 05:23:39 | sjohnson | jacquesZzZz: You can get rid of them by compiling all of the network modules. |
| 05:23:42 | mutex | so now what |
| 05:23:52 | jacquesZzZz | working compiling or working ppp ? |
| 05:24:01 | mutex | ppp is working now, i'm connected |
| 05:24:10 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: great! that was fast |
| 05:24:19 | sjohnson | mutex: Did you do the 'ipkg install_pending' on your ipaq? |
| 05:24:57 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: he needs to get packet forwarding working first, no? |
| 05:25:01 | mutex | no... should i disconnect and then go to minicom ? |
| 05:25:17 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: oops you are talking about ssh - not the fonts |
| 05:25:30 | sjohnson | mutex: Yes. That will install openssh and then you will need to create host keys |
| 05:26:17 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yep, until you get sshd running, you can't really do anything with your shiny new ppp connection |
| 05:26:56 | mutex | it keeps trying to reinstall ssh and xbase-clients |
| 05:27:04 | mutex | oh wait.. i see |
| 05:28:07 | mutex | hmmm ok |
| 05:28:34 | mutex | so i deleted those pending files that were left over |
| 05:28:43 | sjohnson | Now for your keys: ssh-keygen -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_key -N '' |
| 05:28:43 | mutex | and now i need network connectivity somehow |
| 05:29:30 | mutex | i don't see sshd anywhere... |
| 05:29:33 | sjohnson | and : ssh-keygen -d -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key -N '' |
| 05:30:16 | sjohnson | mutex: You did let answer Yes to let ssh and xbase-clients be installed? |
| 05:30:51 | mutex | yes, ssh is installed, but i don't see sshd anywhere |
| 05:31:10 | sjohnson | It should be /usr/sbin/sshd |
| 05:31:16 | blended_eating_dinner | oh god |
| 05:31:20 | mutex | ah, it's there |
| 05:31:22 | mutex | good ;-) |
| 05:31:23 | sjohnson | But you need to general your host keys first. |
| 05:31:41 | mutex | ok, generating |
| 05:31:42 | sjohnson | sshd won't run wihout at least one of them |
| 05:31:43 | blended | minicom is a crock of shit |
| 05:32:07 | jacquesZzZz | blended: ? |
| 05:32:46 | mutex | ok generated fingerprint |
| 05:32:52 | esalazar | Anyone know about setting up a pcmcia storage card? |
| 05:32:57 | sjohnson | blended: To answer your question about jffs2. Jffs2 give wear leveling to the flash memory erases. It spread it around to you don't get a worn sport. |
| 05:33:41 | sjohnson | mutex: Fire up sshd, exit, ppp and then try to ssh to your ipaq. |
| 05:34:47 | blended | sjohnson: that makes sense |
| 05:35:00 | blended | sjohnson: isn't there something called cramfs that |
| 05:35:08 | blended | sjohnson: that's supposed to be good at this |
| 05:35:24 | jacquesZzZz | blended: cramfs is old tech - it's not even writable |
| 05:35:35 | sjohnson | blended: Yes. but cramfs is read only. jffs2 is R/W |
| 05:35:48 | blended | is there any way to tell in unix which ttyS* are usable/have devices connected? |
| 05:36:13 | mutex | ok! i'm connected w00t |
| 05:36:28 | sjohnson | mutex: Happy Christmas. |
| 05:36:38 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: 'grats |
| 05:36:44 | mutex | now packet forwarding right :-( ? |
| 05:37:19 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: yep - you need to get your ipaq to talk to the internet at large (IAL) |
| 05:37:27 | sjohnson | mutex: Yep. Now do your have ipfwadm or ipchains? |
| 05:37:47 | mutex | i have a good ipchains script... and iptables has backward compatability i think |
| 05:38:29 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson: you don't recommend packet forwarding and proxy arp? it's what I use |
| 05:39:08 | mutex | crap i can't compile it as a module |
| 05:39:26 | sjohnson | jacquesZzZz: Yes i do recommend it. I'm trying to locate my script |
| 05:40:42 | blended | god damn |
| 05:40:46 | mutex | i'll have to do it tomorrow i'm beat for tonight, thanks for all the help guys |
| 05:40:51 | sjohnson | Ah, found it. 'ipchains -A forward -s 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.255 -d 0.0.0.0/0.0.0.0 -j MASQ |
| 05:40:52 | sjohnson | ' |
| 05:40:56 | mutex | it's been bangin my brain too much |
| 05:40:58 | blended | minicom isn't getting my Ctrl-A commands and stuff |
| 05:41:35 | sjohnson | blended: minicom may be stuck trying to access the serial port. |
| 05:41:51 | blended | sjohnson: nope, i can type into it |
| 05:42:02 | jacquesZzZz | I just use: echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward && echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/proxy_arp |
| 05:42:18 | jacquesZzZz | oops, that's for usbnet (but should be similar) |
| 05:42:51 | sjohnson | blended: You may need to kill -9 your minicom. |
| 05:43:21 | blended | there arent any running |
| 05:43:28 | blended | any others anyway |
| 05:43:29 | sjohnson | mutex: Try what jacquesZzZzs suggested. That should work. |
| 05:43:42 | blended | sjohnson: it happens every time i start it up |
| 05:43:51 | blended | sjohnson: god unix is so confusing |
| 05:44:27 | blended | ps aux | grep minicom shows no other processes hogging the tty |
| 05:45:10 | sjohnson | blended: UNIX is user friendly, but it's particular about who it's friends are. |
| 05:45:20 | blended | sjohnson: hahahah :-) |
| 05:45:37 | jacquesZzZz | heh |
| 05:45:44 | sjohnson | blended: Try 'fuser /dev/ttyS*' |
| 05:46:06 | sjohnson | blended: Substitute the approp. port device. |
| 05:46:54 | blended | sjohnson: cool, thanks |
| 05:47:38 | sjohnson | mutex: How goes it? |
| 05:50:41 | blended | i cannot believe this |
| 05:50:43 | blended | C-A does nothing!!! |
| 05:51:43 | sjohnson | blended: Try waiting a bit. Minicom might be I/O blocked while trying to write to the serial port. |
| 05:51:53 | blended | k |
| 05:52:10 | jacquesZzZz | blended: hmm, I know the meta key is configurable in minicom |
| 05:52:16 | sjohnson | blended: You are using the right /dev/ttyS port? |
| 05:52:19 | blended | yep |
| 05:52:27 | blended | i can hit enter and get the boot prompt |
| 05:52:30 | blended | and i can type commands |
| 05:53:27 | sjohnson | blended: The minicom command char may have changed. Try all of the ctrl keys + z to find out which one. |
| 05:54:38 | sjohnson | blended: Duh. What does minicom says is the Help screen sequence when it starts running? |
| 05:56:07 | jacquesZzZz | what does it say in bottom left corner of screen on status line? |
| 05:57:44 | blended | sjohnson: dunno but i disconnected it and reconnected it and now it works |
| 05:58:02 | blended | btw after i use stowd, how do i release the port so i can use it for ppp/minicom ? |
| 05:59:17 | sjohnson | blended: Kill stowd and then 'init 2' to get getty back? |
| 06:01:43 | sjohnson | It getting late for me. I'm just about to turn into a pumpkin. 'Nite all. |
| 06:02:31 | jacquesZzZz | sjohnson_zzZz: 'night |
| 06:21:37 | blended | jacquesZzZz: so you just turn on ip_forwarding and proxy_arp? |
| 06:21:41 | blended | jacquesZzZz: and that |
| 06:21:46 | blended | jacquesZzZz: and that's it? |
| 06:22:46 | jacquesZzZz | blended: that works on usbnet, not sure if it's exactly right for serial ppp |
| 06:23:02 | jacquesZzZz | blended: naturally you have to set your default route corerctly on the ipaq |
| 06:24:16 | blended | oh |
| 06:24:22 | blended | how do you set default route? |
| 06:24:56 | jacquesZzZz | something like: route add default gw 192.168.1.1 |
| 06:31:04 | blended | it works now, but dns doesnt |
| 06:31:05 | blended | hrmmm |
| 06:32:14 | jacquesZzZz | blended: what does your /etc/resolv.conf look like? |
| 06:32:23 | blended | same as the one on my host |
| 06:33:17 | jacquesZzZz | blended: when you said it works, what were you referring to? |
| 06:35:10 | blended | i can ping ip's but names dont resolve |
| 06:38:00 | jacquesZzZz | blended: can you ping the dns server? |
| 06:42:02 | blended | yah |
| 06:42:05 | blended | weird huh |
| 06:42:40 | jacquesZzZz | i can't remember if familiar has nslookup installed |
| 06:42:50 | blended | guess not |
| 06:46:40 | jacquesZzZz | blended: what is that dns server? your isp's ? |
| 06:47:45 | blended | yah |
| 06:48:12 | jacquesZzZz | I suppose it could be some sort of UDP issue |
| 06:48:31 | blended | i just ssh'd to a box out on the internet using it's ip address but i can't do the same by hostname |
| 06:48:40 | blended | what's a good test of UDP? |
| 06:48:56 | jacquesZzZz | might have something to do with the way you are forwarding the packets through your pc |
| 06:49:04 | jacquesZzZz | dunno what a good test is offhand |
| 06:50:19 | blended | oh, i have some rules in there |
| 06:50:35 | blended | they were set by RH's firewall script |
| 06:51:46 | jacquesZzZz | might have something to do with it, not sure tho |
| 06:54:07 | blended | yah, that was it |
| 06:54:40 | blended | i was rejecting all udp and tcp traffic and had specific rules for a few protocols |
| 06:56:34 | jacquesZzZz | so dns works now? great! |
| 07:01:57 | blended | yep |
| 07:01:59 | blended | oops |
| 07:02:05 | blended | i just removed ipkg |
| 07:02:07 | blended | crap |
| 07:02:14 | blended | i was trying to cleanup for qpe |
| 07:02:16 | blended | shit |
| 07:02:36 | blended | mind if i borrow yours? |
| 07:06:16 | jacquesZzZz | blended: dcc does not work for me when sending because of my firewall |
| 07:08:22 | blended | something must be wrong |
| 07:08:32 | blended | god, i had everything fine on my other box |
| 07:08:39 | blended | ups fuxored my life |
| 07:08:55 | blended | i cant xmodem upload for some fucking reson |
| 07:09:00 | blended | is about to loose it |
| 07:10:07 | blended | fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck |
| 07:11:35 | blended | oh my god, my system doesnt have sx |
| 07:11:38 | blended | christ |
| 07:11:42 | blended | what a joke |
| 16:31:01 | Leeds | afternoon... |
| 16:33:58 | Zugot | . |
| 16:35:39 | Leeds | bash: .: filename argument required |
| 16:42:24 | Kero | pokes a7r |
| 16:44:13 | a7r | hey Kero.. |
| 16:45:51 | Kero | some X pikg contains /root/.Xdefaults. |
| 16:45:55 | Kero | ipkg |
| 16:46:17 | Kero | it is /very/ annoying to have that file overwritten at each upgrade. |
| 16:46:40 | a7r | Yup.. this week is package enema week, and the Familiar Project.. that one goes first on my list.. |
| 16:47:14 | Kero | okay; is there a config-file thingy in ipkg? like for dpkg? |
| 16:47:22 | a7r | yup.. |
| 16:47:32 | a7r | take a look at the ssh package for an example. |
| 16:47:42 | Kero | Ah, of course. |
| 16:50:35 | Kero | So, will you have time to check my tcl/tk/ruby packages this week? :) |
| 16:51:48 | a7r | Yeah,. ;) You have anything more current you want me to look at? |
| 16:53:31 | mutex | is there any way to turn off the mouse cursor in familiar ? |
| 16:58:05 | Kero | a7r: no, nothing more current, though ruby is at 1.6.4 atm. |
| 17:04:05 | Kero | \ |
| 19:06:43 | blended | has qpe up and running |
| 19:07:04 | nikos | notes this is the anti-QPE channel. Go talk on #ipaq. ;) |
| 19:08:59 | blended | nikos: awww come on, be a good sport |
| 19:09:06 | nikos | :) |
| 19:09:59 | blended | nikos: i started a discussion (which didnt last long) on the Gnome Love mailing list. I wanted to see if anyone wanted to work on a uGnome with me. Something that would compare to qpe. |
| 19:10:21 | blended | nikos: Doesn |
| 19:10:33 | blended | nikos: it doesnt look like there are that many ppl interested in it |
| 19:10:51 | blended | i wonder if anyone else in here does gtk programming |
| 19:11:02 | Leeds | does GTK - in python and C |
| 19:11:11 | nikos | too |
| 19:11:39 | Leeds | There was a company announced a while ago that they were going to produce a GNOME for palmtops - they came out with some screenshots but AFAIK nothing else |
| 19:12:01 | BBrox | Leeds: the famous Henzai :-) |
| 19:12:07 | blended | Leeds: yah, ppl kept referring me to them, but it looks like they've just got vapor ware |
| 19:12:34 | Leeds | has anyone ever spoken to them? |
| 19:12:43 | blended | not i said the fly |
| 19:13:27 | blended | Leeds: who knows, myabe they've developed the "killer app" but just haven't updated their website... but i doubt it |
| 19:14:29 | Leeds | Their screenshots look pretty nice - but I suppose they're just mock-ups. Which would be a sign that they didn't understand free software/open source |
| 19:15:30 | BBrox | Their only sign of activity was one or two commits in the Gnome CVS tree |
| 19:15:42 | blended | yah |
| 19:15:47 | Leeds | Ah, so they did at least exist for a short time |
| 19:16:07 | blended | Alex Larsson <alexl@redhat.com> wrote: I and elliot lee started hacking on something like this once. It is in the |
| 19:16:07 | blended | gpda module in the gnome cvs tree. It is Gtk+ 1.3.x based, and runs on |
| 19:16:07 | blended | both X and fb. |
| 19:17:18 | blended | there really isnt much there |
| 19:20:46 | Leeds | I don't think we're particularly suffering from their disappearance... |
| 20:03:50 | mutex | is gcc too big to put on familiar ? |
| 20:04:51 | nikos | It has nothing to do with Familiar. It's an issue of having enough storage space. |
| 20:05:17 | nikos | It's also not so much GCC, as all the other stuff header, libraries, utilities, etc. that you need for a development environment. |
| 20:05:28 | nikos | Its the totality that take up all the space. |
| 20:06:32 | mutex | so just cross compile to get stuff on there yeah ? |
| 20:06:55 | nikos | Or use a device that does provide enough storage space. Like the skiffcluster systems. |
| 20:07:49 | sjohnson | mutex: You will either need intimate + large CF card or microdrive or NFS mounted chroot environment. |
| 20:08:17 | mutex | does the familiar kernel support nfs ? |
| 20:08:35 | nikos | Yes |
| 20:08:57 | mutex | neat |
| 20:09:07 | mutex | now if only i could get internet access, heh |
| 20:09:55 | sjohnson | mutex: I forgot who but one on IRC was compiling libc on his iPAQ via NFS mount |
| 20:12:32 | mutex | sjohnson: what's slated for 0.5 ? |
| 20:13:07 | sjohnson | mutex: Don't have a clue. I've been out the loop for about a month due work and health problems. |
| 20:13:34 | mutex | sjohnson: sorry to hear that :( |
| 20:14:31 | sjohnson | mutex: I'm OK. I just a little pouch in my intestine wall that make them irritable. |
| 20:14:42 | sjohnson | s/I just/Its just/ |
| 20:32:57 | mutex | anybody have an iptables script i could look at ? |
| 20:39:12 | nikos | mutex: Not secure. But I just use iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth0 -j MASQUERADE |
| 20:41:23 | mutex | i just can't seem to find a good howto ;-), thanks |
| 20:43:46 | mutex | nikos: is there anything special i need to do to network over serial ? |
| 20:45:18 | nikos | mutex: I'm not sure what you mean. You need PPP. |
| 20:45:46 | mutex | nikos: i have ppp working, i've compiled iptables into my kernel, i have an internet connection up |
| 20:45:58 | mutex | i just need outside -> serial -> ipaq |
| 20:46:13 | nikos | echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward |
| 20:50:58 | mutex | hmmm doesn't seem to work, any ideas? |
| 20:51:22 | mutex | i see that for masq, you only need iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o <iface> -j MASQUERADE |
| 20:52:13 | nikos | mutex: Have you looked at the PPP howto? I use usbnet not PPP. |
| 20:52:35 | | nikos: sorry... |
| 20:52:35 | nikos | ibot: ppphowto |
| 20:52:39 | | ppp is http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 20:52:39 | nikos | ibot: ppp |
| 20:53:07 | mutex | yeah i'll check it again |
| 20:56:10 | sjohnson | mutex: Can you ssh in and ping the PC end of the ppp connection? |
| 21:01:50 | mutex | sjohnson: yeah, i can do that |
| 21:01:59 | mutex | i'm checking the howto, but something's not right... |
| 21:03:00 | mutex | Chain FORWARD (policy ACCEPT) |
| 21:03:00 | mutex | target prot opt source destination |
| 21:03:00 | mutex | ACCEPT all -- ipaq anywhere |
| 21:03:01 | mutex | ACCEPT all -- anywhere ipaq |
| 21:03:02 | mutex | ' |
| 21:03:08 | mutex | that should be the correct forwarding rules |
| 21:03:33 | Kero | Mine has one line, with MASQ, not ACCEPT |
| 21:03:48 | mutex | hmmm |
| 21:03:52 | mutex | could you paste it ? |
| 21:03:53 | Kero | MASQ all ------ ipaq.m38c.nl anywhere n/a |
| 21:04:01 | sjohnson | mutex: Can your ping you ethernet intf on the PC from the IPAQ? |
| 21:04:26 | mutex | sjohnson: yes |
| 21:05:34 | sjohnson | mutex: i agree with Kero. You iptable entry should be MASQ not accept. |
| 21:06:13 | Kero | actually dumped ipchains ouput, but the idea is the same :) |
| 21:06:18 | mutex | yes, that's what i'm thinkin ;-) |
| 21:09:08 | sjohnson | is away: food run |
| 21:13:19 | mutex | hmm ipchains and iptables very much don't work the same |
| 21:13:28 | mutex | just putting MASQ does not work, and is an invalid command |
| 21:14:56 | mutex | ah ha, it works, DNS was just messed up |
| 21:18:30 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:09:21) |
| 21:18:35 | blended_hiking | is away: I'm busy |
| 21:20:27 | sjohnson | Cool. I finally got icecast working again. |
| 21:21:15 | mutex | sjohnson: i finally got network access working ;-), DNS wasn't setup |
| 21:22:31 | sjohnson | Congrats. |
| 21:23:45 | mutex | beams a large grin |
| 21:23:49 | mutex | my handheld works |
| 21:24:47 | sjohnson | mutex: you should install the familiar-postinst package so you can get the nice fonts. |
| 21:24:57 | Kero | mutex: cool! |
| 21:25:37 | mutex | i just was about to do that ;-) |
| 21:26:45 | mutex | so.. will new programs be entered into my blackbox menu automatically? or do i have to do it myself |
| 21:27:10 | sjohnson | mutex: With stable you will have to add them manually. |
| 21:27:48 | sjohnson | mutex: unstable recentluy got the debian menu builder ported to it. |
| 21:27:58 | mutex | nice |
| 21:29:13 | mutex | where is the black box menu kept ? |
| 21:30:06 | mutex | found it |
| 21:40:29 | mutex | so now, how is the USB connection different from the serial? |
| 21:43:43 | sjohnson | mutex: A lot faster. :> |
| 21:45:23 | mutex | sjohnson: connection wise, just point the ppp connection to.. another dev ? |
| 21:46:24 | sjohnson | mutex: No. It's another set of drivers. on the IPAQ side it's the usb-eth module. when loaded a usbf device is created. |
| 21:47:18 | sjohnson | On the PC side your need the usbnet module. I don't know if usbnet has made it to the mainstream kernel. You may need to compile and install a -ac kernel version. |
| 21:48:29 | mutex | it's in the main kernel |
| 21:49:06 | sjohnson | mutex: USB network is bit more tricky then ppp. This is what it do... |
| 21:49:55 | sjohnson | 1) Have iPAQ removed from USB cradle. |
| 21:49:55 | sjohnson | 2) modprobe usb-eth - on ipaq |
| 21:49:55 | sjohnson | 3) ifconfig usbf <ip-addr> netmask <netmask> - on ipaq |
| 21:49:55 | sjohnson | 4) route add default gw <PC-ip-addr> (from step 6) |
| 21:49:55 | sjohnson | 4) modprobe usbnet - on PC |
| 21:49:55 | sjohnson | 5) Insert iPAQ into cradle |
| 21:49:57 | sjohnson | 6) ifconfig usb0 <PC-ip-addr> netmask <netmask) |
| 21:49:59 | sjohnson | 7) Enjoy |
| 21:50:01 | sjohnson | If iPAQ is removed from cradle, all your need to do to reestablish network is: |
| 21:50:03 | sjohnson | 1) Reconnect iPAQ to USB crable/cable, The PC should recognize the IPAQ |
| 21:50:05 | sjohnson | and create usb0. |
| 21:50:08 | sjohnson | 2) ifconfig usb0 <PC-ip-addr> netmask <netmask> |
| 21:50:09 | sjohnson | 3) If that doesn't work, try unplugging USB crable cable and then plugging |
| 21:50:11 | sjohnson | it in again, Then retry the step 2 ifconfig. |
| 21:50:21 | mutex | heh, whoa |
| 21:51:37 | sjohnson | It triceky in that you have to have the module loaded on both side before usb0 will be created on the PC side. |
| 21:52:06 | mutex | yeah, and it seems usbnet isn't in my kernel tree... i'll stick to serial for now :-( |
| 21:53:44 | sjohnson | mutex: usbnet is in -ac kernels. Hopefully Linus will let it into the main kernel soon |
| 21:58:07 | mutex | sjohnson: thanks, is there a way to get rid of the mouse cursor in X ? |
| 21:58:14 | mutex | make it invisible |
| 22:00:38 | sjohnson | mutex: Give me minute. |
| 22:03:11 | sjohnson | mutex: I don't remember if there is a utility that controls is or not. I just remember about the X function calls to set the pointer image. |
| 22:03:29 | mutex | sjohnson: well i looked for an XConfig of somekind but i couldn't find one |
| 22:04:43 | sjohnson | I'm out of my element when dealing with the guts of X. |
| 22:05:59 | mutex | heh |
| 22:08:33 | mutex | it seems like there is alot of applications on handhelds.org that is not in ipkg |
| 22:09:36 | sjohnson | mutex: A lot of them are packaged in the unstable feed. |
| 22:11:18 | mutex | do you reccomend unstable?... debian testing isn't bad, unstable is horrible for example |
| 22:11:53 | jacquesZzZz | mutex: intimate is all debian unstable |
| 22:12:14 | sjohnson | mutex: The unstable package are unstable. If you can stand a lot of little problems, got for it. |
| 22:15:18 | sjohnson | mutex: When I tried to change to unstable. I kept running out of room. I has to install the task-bootstrap image, edit the /etc/ipkg.conf to point to the unstable feed, upgrad everything and then install task-familiar-complete. |
| 22:15:54 | mutex | hmmm desktop i can deal with unstable.. easy to fix... a handheld, probably not |
| 22:18:24 | mutex | sjohnson: i've installed the tt fonts, how do i get them to be rendered by black box |
| 22:18:33 | sjohnson | restart X |
| 22:20:48 | mutex | hmmm i don't notice a big difference... hrm |
| 22:22:31 | sjohnson | mutex: If you want to change the blackbox fonts. you will have to fiddle with the bb styles file. |
| 22:24:48 | sjohnson | mutex: Of try switch the Blackbox style. I think it defaults to Operation. Try setting it to Familiar. That style used the verdana ttf font |
| 22:25:29 | mutex | whoa! the text just got like 3 times smaller |
| 22:26:02 | mutex | all these themes are ugly |
| 22:26:56 | sjohnson | Like I said, you may need to fiddle with the styles or create your own. |
| 22:27:08 | mutex | where is this styles file? |
| 22:27:33 | sjohnson | /usr/share/blackbox/styles and /root/.blockbox/styles/ |
| 22:27:49 | sjohnson | er, /root/.blackbox/styles/ |
| 22:28:52 | mutex | sjohnson: you said you ran icewm on yours ? |
| 22:29:07 | sjohnson | mutex: No I'm running blackbox. |
| 22:33:42 | mutex | are you used to graffiti yet / |
| 22:36:53 | sjohnson | I'm used to it. I've owned a Palm for many years. :) |
| 22:37:13 | mutex | what's "return" or "enter" ? |
| 22:37:36 | sjohnson | Diagonal stroke. upper right to lower left. |
| 22:38:20 | mutex | goes to look for a chart |
| 22:38:46 | | sjohnson: wish i knew |
| 22:38:46 | sjohnson | ibot fscribe? |
| 22:38:49 | | sjohnson: i'm not following you... |
| 22:38:49 | sjohnson | ibot fscrib |
| 22:39:02 | | sjohnson: excuse me? |
| 22:39:02 | sjohnson | ibot: fscribe |
| 22:39:05 | | mutex: huh? |
| 22:39:05 | mutex | ibot graffiti |
| 22:39:15 | | sjohnson: excuse me? |
| 22:39:15 | sjohnson | ibot xstoke |
| 22:39:19 | | xstroke is ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/projects/xstroke/ |
| 22:39:19 | sjohnson | ibot xstroke |
| 22:39:29 | sjohnson | Hang on |
| 22:44:27 | sjohnson | Darn it. I can't find it. |
| 22:44:35 | mutex | me neither |
| 22:46:17 | sjohnson | http://robert.watkins.net/strokes.png |
| 22:47:00 | sjohnson | and a howto for modifiers - http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20to%20use%20xscribble |
| 22:49:14 | mutex | hmm can't do @ |
| 22:49:15 | mutex | it's hard |
| 22:50:14 | sjohnson | Some character are harder then others I have trouble with b d and p |
| 22:51:17 | mutex | wishes for newton style recognition |
| 22:51:44 | sjohnson | Well then start coding. ;> |
| 22:53:57 | mutex | i want to get used to the enviorment before i start programming in it |
| 22:54:03 | mutex | then i'll decide what i need the most |
| 22:54:43 | mutex | is there any kind of mingle import/export capabilities ? |
| 22:55:08 | sjohnson | mutex: You'll need to ping a7r for questions about mingle. |
| 22:55:45 | mutex | i see |
| 23:00:03 | mutex | is there a speical mode you have to be in for numbers ? |
| 23:00:38 | sjohnson | It's a toggle mode - diagonal stroke lower left to upper right. |
| 23:02:52 | mutex | sjohnson: how is the differentiation between upper/lower case defined |
| 23:03:53 | sjohnson | Verticle Upstroke before the letter. |
| 23:04:40 | mutex | sjohnson: do symbols need a special toggle too ? |
| 23:05:23 | sjohnson | mutex: Tap and hold - about 1/3 of a second |
| 23:05:35 | sjohnson | Then synbol strole. |
| 23:22:27 | mutex | sjohnson: is there any kind of battery monitor |
| 23:24:15 | sjohnson | A couple are avail. one I've used is wmapm is a Windock applet that you can use with blackbox. |
| 23:25:57 | sjohnson | Binaries for ARM can be found at http://db.wireless.net/ |
| 23:39:19 | sjohnson | is away: watching television |
