| 01:32:50 | Sir_Earl | Anyone redirecting all console/system msgs/output to the iPaq....using the iPaq w/Targus instead of a serial connection to a host for input? |
| 03:12:29 | dneuer | a7r: you here? |
| 07:12:07 | pyromage | hey hey! |
| 07:13:08 | Sir_Earl | hey pryomage. |
| 07:13:17 | Sir_Earl | er, pyromage. |
| 07:13:21 | pyromage | sup? |
| 07:13:40 | Sir_Earl | Come over to #handhelds, a bit more lively... |
| 07:14:05 | pyromage | heh 8-} it seems most of the irc channels i hit are dead silent as often as not... i think ill do that |
| 11:47:36 | kap | join #handhelds.org |
| 12:42:53 | kap | I can't play any sound on my Ipaq. I try to play a mp3 with mpg123 and nothing happens. Can someone help me on this topic ? |
| 12:43:52 | sjohnson | kap: THe IPAQ don't have a FPU so mpg123 will run very slows. Use madplay to play mp3s. |
| 12:45:02 | kap | OK thanks, but is it the reason why I don't hear anything ? |
| 12:46:01 | sjohnson | kap: Did you check you mixer volume level? |
| 12:46:22 | nikosDENTIST | is away: Dentist |
| 12:47:10 | kap | Yes, it is almost at max (76/100) |
| 12:48:55 | sjohnson | Hmmm. Don't know. Try madplay and see if that works. |
| 12:49:12 | kap | OK, I'll try it thanks. |
| 13:09:19 | colm | heym all |
| 13:10:45 | colm | something I can't find an answer for on the web : can you set your console to be the main screen framebuffer rather than the serial device? |
| 13:11:31 | colm | (using familiar 0.4, that is) |
| 13:23:34 | colm | hmm. |
| 13:23:53 | colm | anyone know of any way of mounting a JFFS2 using loopback? |
| 13:24:19 | colm | mount -o loop -t jffs /var/lib/familiar_root.jffs2 /mnt doesn't seem to work |
| 13:24:52 | Kero | enable loopback support in your kernel? |
| 13:25:00 | colm | it's there |
| 13:25:19 | colm | is there a JFFS-versus-JFFS2 issue? |
| 13:25:32 | Kero | yes, there is. |
| 13:25:35 | colm | ah... |
| 13:25:43 | colm | is JFFS2 not in stock 2.4.6? |
| 13:25:43 | Kero | they're, like, incompatible. |
| 13:25:52 | Kero | no clue... |
| 13:25:54 | colm | hm |
| 13:30:01 | colm | ah |
| 13:30:15 | colm | downloads the jffs2 patches from Red Hat |
| 13:32:32 | Kero | suggests mounting readonly anyway. |
| 13:32:36 | Colm | ayup |
| 13:32:51 | Colm | i only had JFFS support in the kernel, not JFFS2 |
| 14:06:05 | nikos | is back |
| 14:27:55 | frizz | I am trying to get a Xircom CBE2-100 pcmcia card working under familiar. The cardmgr doesn't seem to recognize it. |
| 15:40:54 | nikos | is away: grocery... |
| 16:02:13 | ]matus[ | is away: I'm busy |
| 16:10:50 | nikos | is back |
| 16:51:29 | Sir_Earl | Hello all... |
| 16:51:42 | nikos | Hi Sir_Earl |
| 17:21:43 | mallum | is away: errands |
| 18:27:01 | Freche | ahhhhhh |
| 18:27:04 | Freche | wo bin ich hier? |
| 18:27:06 | Freche | hallo? |
| 18:27:45 | nikos | Freche: Hi, I only speak English, sorry. |
| 18:27:55 | Freche | where am I? |
| 18:28:01 | Freche | *g* |
| 18:28:19 | Freche | can somebody speak german here? |
| 18:28:22 | Freche | or french? |
| 18:28:39 | nikos | Freche: What do you mean by 'where'? |
| 18:29:01 | Freche | what kind of channel is it? |
| 18:29:15 | nikos | For the Familiar Linux distribution |
| 18:29:22 | nikos | http://familiar.handhelds.org |
| 18:29:28 | Freche | ah, ko |
| 18:29:29 | Freche | ok |
| 18:29:31 | Freche | thanks! |
| 18:29:44 | nikos | Sure |
| 18:59:22 | mallum_AWAY | is back (gone 01:37:39) |
| 19:01:09 | jg | mallum: you here? |
| 19:01:17 | mallum | jg: yep |
| 19:01:21 | mallum | jg: whats up |
| 19:01:35 | jg | care to do some pikpak hacking? |
| 19:03:27 | mallum | jg: can do, havn't got much time at the moment - whats up with it ? |
| 19:04:17 | jg | needs a couple things: section support, so that end users don't have to wade through things like libraries, for example.... |
| 19:04:55 | jg | Secondly, support for sizing of packages.... So that people get warned if they would likely exceed available flash.... |
| 19:04:58 | mallum | jg: like a view by section menu option ? |
| 19:05:07 | jg | Yup. |
| 19:05:34 | mallum | jg: shouldn't that be the job of ipkg ? |
| 19:05:43 | jg | But better would be to be able to view more than one section at once, so a dialog would be better... |
| 19:06:15 | jg | ipkg has nothing to do with this: this is just exploiting the section information in ipkg to help out the user... |
| 19:07:24 | mallum | jg: ok I see what your saying. Its just informative rather than obstructive to the user |
| 19:07:41 | jg | Normally, end users should only have to see and select from applications, or games, and not worry about libraries, the kernel modules required, etc... |
| 19:08:36 | mallum | jg: it would be nice to present the packages in a tree type view with each branch being a section |
| 19:08:51 | mallum | jg: but *i think* the gtk tree stuff is broke in pygtk |
| 19:09:18 | jg | Whatever works... |
| 19:10:49 | mallum | jg: I think pikpak could do with some sort on splash screen on start up while it 'globs' all the packages |
| 19:11:31 | mallum | jg: also think would be even better if there was a 'proper' interface into ipkg rather than just forking it off in a term |
| 19:11:56 | jg | You'd have to talk to Carl about that... |
| 19:13:02 | cworth | mallum: ipkg now has -force-defaults so you can prevent it from prompting... |
| 19:13:49 | cworth | mallum: As for configuration prompts from postinst scripts, yes I do want to make a real interface for this, (so a program could render them as graphical dialogs for example). |
| 19:14:04 | mallum | cworth: yeah. it still means I gotta fork something off though to deal with ipkg |
| 19:14:31 | mallum | cworth: I do realise it'd be a lot of work to implement ipkg as c libs |
| 19:14:41 | cworth | mallum: well, once that is in place you won't have to. |
| 19:15:09 | cworth | oh, that. It might go that route eventually. |
| 19:15:11 | mallum | cworth: cool |
| 19:16:06 | nikos | cworth: I'm more and more in favor of the C version, if you calculate in all the UNIX utilties that ipkg uses (and ipkg may be the only reason a user has to have them installed) then the shell version gets to be quite large. |
| 19:16:48 | Kero | cworth! |
| 19:17:09 | Kero | unstable feed ion needs a few dependencies! |
| 19:17:44 | cworth | Kero: yes, I just noticed your problems, xfonts-ttf, libxrender, and libxft, correct? |
| 19:18:10 | Kero | seems so. |
| 19:18:34 | Kero | not entirely sure about xfonts-75dpi, coz installing it didn't help |
| 19:18:54 | nikos | Kero: I don't think so, I removed that one myself I believe. |
| 19:21:25 | Kero | btw, ion is going in the right direction |
| 19:22:25 | Kero | and xkbd fits in! whee! |
| 19:22:50 | cworth | Kero: thanks. |
| 19:23:33 | cworth | nikos: let's see. ipkg currently depends on sh, sed, head, wget, cat, tar, mv, rm, grep, mkdir, touch, echo, true, md5sum, rmdir. I don't see much to save there, (not that I won't implement it in C anyway). |
| 19:23:34 | mallum | there is hope for xkbd yet ! ;) |
| 19:23:38 | nikos | That reminds me, when I started up xkbd, it just floated. |
| 19:24:03 | mallum | nikos: yeah it set in the menu to start with a -o swicth |
| 19:24:10 | nikos | cworth: A lot of those utilities are not otherwise used. |
| 19:24:12 | mallum | nikos: so it works with blackbox too |
| 19:24:35 | nikos | mallum: Ah, I'll edit the menu then. |
| 19:25:09 | mallum | wonders if he could ask keithp to fix blackbox |
| 19:25:38 | nikos | cworth: add sort and uniq. |
| 19:25:59 | cworth | nikos: ah, true. |
| 19:26:19 | Kero | notices space in the window that accomodates xkbd... /me splits the window |
| 19:26:52 | mallum | Kero: I think the current xkbd ipkg still has a bug where it dont tell the wm its size properly |
| 19:27:07 | mallum | Kero: cworth has kindly fixed this |
| 19:27:12 | mallum | Kero: in cvs |
| 19:27:49 | Kero | hm, ion forgot where its focus is... |
| 19:27:58 | Kero | can not type anymore :( |
| 19:28:43 | mallum | Kero: xkbd should just send info into the last focused window ? |
| 19:30:40 | Kero | mallum: yes, but when none have focus... |
| 19:30:55 | Kero | restarted X, but can not reproduce :( |
| 19:32:24 | Kero | when a window get realllllly small, the X button overlaps the V-split. |
| 19:32:45 | Kero | pressing it, however, splits the window :) |
| 19:33:12 | cworth | Kero: heh. :) Then don't do that. ;-) |
| 19:33:18 | Kero | expects someone to be counting pixels :) |
| 19:33:33 | Kero | cworth: but there is space left to the right of xkbd! |
| 19:33:39 | Kero | wants to use that space! |
| 19:33:46 | Kero | :) |
| 19:33:55 | mallum | Kero: this could be the bug |
| 19:34:17 | mallum | Kero: where xkbd dont tell ion its preffered sizes properly |
| 19:34:28 | Kero | mallum: this is what I did before the bug was triggered, but I can not reproduce it now. |
| 19:36:10 | sjohnson | nikos: When you get your list of utilities to delete, I'd like to have it also. |
| 19:36:31 | nikos | sjohnson: I'm still working on it, but you can see my current list on the KenCausey wiki page. |
| 19:37:09 | sjohnson | nikos: OK, thanks. |
| 19:37:10 | Kero | cworth: the window title bar feels big, probably due to the pixmaps. |
| 19:37:41 | mallum | cworth: will the title bar just take tt fonts ? |
| 19:38:47 | cworth | mallum: probably. Keith made that change. |
| 19:39:06 | mallum | cworth: kieth dont visit these parts much does he ? |
| 19:39:13 | | I haven't seen 'kiethp', mallum |
| 19:39:13 | mallum | ibot: seen kiethp |
| 19:39:24 | | keithp was last seen on #familiar 2 days, 23 hours, 46 minutes and 31 seconds ago, saying: nelson: yes, they do. I've my own little collection on my web server now, including my favorite emacs clone. [Fri Jul 13 20:52:53 2001] |
| 19:39:24 | mallum | ibot: seen keithp |
| 19:40:28 | mallum | find a jove ipkg ;) |
| 19:40:53 | mallum | is away: eating some food / watching tv |
| 19:41:14 | cworth | nikos: gtk-menu probably should. Packages in general should not. |
| 19:41:34 | nikos | cworth: The error you get on postinst can be confusing. |
| 19:42:15 | cworth | nikos: which error? |
| 19:42:37 | nikos | cworth: It complains about not being able to find install-menu (or something like that). |
| 19:45:12 | Kero | desparately needs to change xkbd layout (and knows how to do it) |
| 19:47:01 | Kero | nikos: int main() { exit 0; } compiled and stripped is < 3kByte |
| 19:47:14 | Kero | what does /bin/true do that it needs 6 kByte more? |
| 19:47:16 | Sir_Earl | Hello all... |
| 19:47:39 | nikos | Kero: Is that on x86 or arm? |
| 19:48:01 | sjohnson | Kero: glibc overhead. |
| 19:48:06 | nikos | Kero: I've noticed that many apps that are less than 10K on x86 are 70-100% larger on arm. |
| 19:48:21 | sjohnson | nikos: ARM is a RISC processor. |
| 19:48:44 | sjohnson | Less number of instructions = larger binaries. |
| 19:48:45 | nikos | sjohnson: I realize that, but that seems more excessive than the 40% size increase that I expected. |
| 19:49:12 | nikos | sjohnson: The increase in size seems to be considerably more in smaller binaries than in larger ones. |
| 19:50:13 | sjohnson | I don't know the hows and whys any more. I got oout of developer over 6 years ago. |
| 19:57:57 | Kero | nikos: this time, stripped on arm is a few 100s of bytes smaller. |
| 19:58:34 | nikos | Kero: So about 3K? |
| 19:59:00 | nikos | Kero: No I guess still about 9K huh? |
| 19:59:09 | Kero | when I compile it, yes, from familiar, 9 kB |
| 19:59:20 | Kero | s/yes/3kB/ |
| 19:59:42 | nikos | Oh, that helps. |
| 19:59:52 | Kero | wonderswhatthedifferenceis... |
| 20:00:01 | nikos | is a byte pincher |
| 20:00:34 | Kero | saving 60% on each binary would help a lot :) |
| 20:01:17 | nikos | Kero: That doesn't seem to likely. But yes. ;) |
| 20:04:53 | Kero | does not understand why launching xkbd from /etc/init.d/x does not work properly. |
| 20:05:22 | Kero | It doesn't display itself, but works fine when I start xkbd by hand later ... :( |
| 20:06:51 | sjohnson | Kero: YOu are running to after the X server starts and you are backgrounding it (i.e. xkdb & ) ? |
| 20:07:07 | Kero | sjohnson: yes. |
| 20:08:03 | sjohnson | Just making sure it's not a "slap my forehead" mistake. |
| 20:09:05 | Kero | well, it looks like the same line to my simple eyes :) |
| 20:11:55 | Kero | refrains from `ipkg remove xvkbd` for now... |
| 20:12:39 | sjohnson | Kero: Are you using ion? |
| 20:12:41 | nikos | Could xkbd be coming up before ion has had a chance to get fully started? |
| 20:14:53 | Kero | sjohnson: yes |
| 20:15:09 | Kero | nikos: no, sleep 5 to test it prevented that :) |
| 20:15:17 | nikos | But didn't help? |
| 20:15:27 | Kero | not a single pixel. |
| 20:17:07 | Kero | launching it after all other apps (xrdb and such) does not help either :( |
| 20:21:29 | pkomarek | Kero: do you launch any other graphical apps before trying xkbd (xrdb doesn't have a window, AFAIK)? |
| 20:22:18 | Kero | rxvt. |
| 20:22:54 | pkomarek | Kero: I should have said "successfully lanuch" -- I'll assume you knew what I meant. |
| 20:23:41 | Kero | xvkbd instead of xkbd launches just fine, as does rxvt. |
| 20:24:54 | pkomarek | Kero: might you have a resource set somewhere, i.e. in .Xdefaults, that could affect this? As far as this goes, I suppose xkbd works if launched later... |
| 20:25:32 | Kero | xkbd works wonderfully when launched later by hand... |
| 20:25:55 | Kero | Xft.rgba: vbgr |
| 20:26:02 | Kero | whatever that line may mean. |
| 20:31:57 | nikos | Kero: That sets up AA fonts. |
| 20:32:02 | nikos | Kero: To have the right orientation. |
| 20:33:20 | Kero | thanks |
| 20:33:41 | Kero | the rest of the lines is familiar for me and have nothing to do with xkbd. |
| 20:48:45 | Sir_Earl | Does apm's value of 0:05 mean 'battery full'? |
| 20:49:22 | nikos | Sir_Earl: There's a percentage value. |
| 20:50:12 | Sir_Earl | hmm... missing a switch? I get: |
| 20:50:14 | Sir_Earl | # apm |
| 20:50:15 | Sir_Earl | AC on-line (0:05) |
| 20:50:15 | Sir_Earl | # |
| 20:50:23 | nikos | cat /proc/apm |
| 20:50:32 | nikos | I'm not sure what that means. |
| 20:50:54 | Sir_Earl | OK, thanks. I'm not sure what all the values are. |
| 20:50:56 | Sir_Earl | # cat /proc/apm |
| 20:50:56 | Sir_Earl | 1.13 1.2 0x02 0x01 0xff 0xff 108% 324 sec |
| 20:50:56 | Sir_Earl | # |
| 20:51:12 | Sir_Earl | 108% full? PCCARD Sleeve battery weirding things out? |
| 20:51:16 | nikos | Last one Is estimated minutes (ignore sec) of time. |
| 20:51:36 | nikos | Sir_Earl: The percentage is not accurate under AC. |
| 20:51:44 | Sir_Earl | oh, ok. |
| 20:51:48 | nikos | Sir_Earl: It's also not accurate without it, 50% is closer to 10%. |
| 20:51:56 | Sir_Earl | :-) |
| 20:52:04 | Sir_Earl | Minutes (sec) accurate? |
| 20:52:15 | Kero | % * 3 == sec |
| 20:52:21 | nikos | It can't ever be, power usage fluctuates highly. |
| 20:52:50 | Sir_Earl | OK, sure. Makes sense. The CE power meter seemed pretty good. |
| 20:52:55 | nikos | Kero: Interesting observation. |
| 20:52:56 | Kero | 324 / 60 == 5 minutes. I don;t think so... |
| 20:53:05 | nikos | Kero: s/sec/min/ |
| 20:53:16 | nikos | Kero: jamey admits that he did something wrong there, or the docs are wrong. |
| 20:53:52 | Kero | 5 hours? I'd believe that. |
| 20:55:28 | Sir_Earl | Is the PCMCIA sleeve battery logically selected? I mean, does the battery in the sleeve always provide main power? If main battery is depleted? |
| 20:56:04 | nikos | Sir_Earl: My understanding is that they are electrically connected and will trickle-charge each other. If both are avialable they should be drained equally. |
| 20:56:27 | Sir_Earl | OK, that's good. I hope that is the case. |
| 20:56:30 | nikos | But if you drain the ipaq battery, just plugging in the sleeve may not bring the ipaq back to life. |
| 20:56:31 | Kero | No, sticking power into the iPAQ, whilst the empty sleeve is connected, will load the sleeve. |
| 20:57:16 | Sir_Earl | I've found my sleeve can bring back the iPaq from a low power condition that wouldn't allow the display to power up. |
| 20:57:47 | nikos | Some people have reported that it didn't work. I suspect it depends on how drained the internal battery is. |
| 20:57:57 | Sir_Earl | Sure, I'd go along with that. |
| 20:58:05 | Kero | too :) |
| 20:58:27 | Sir_Earl | What do you guys see for standby (sleep) times WITH the sleeve? |
| 20:58:44 | Sir_Earl | Can I realistically expect a complete day or so? |
| 20:58:53 | nikos | I don't think its working properly right now. |
| 20:59:04 | nikos | Sir_Earl: Should be able to expect 1 to 2 weeks I think once it is all sorted out. |
| 20:59:04 | Sir_Earl | Trying to figure out how to travel with the thing in this state. |
| 20:59:21 | Sir_Earl | A7R mentioned .3 had better power management. |
| 20:59:22 | nikos | Sir_Earl: 1 to 2 weeks with no sleeve. |
| 20:59:29 | Kero | Sir_Earl: when running on low clokspeed, I reach 24 hours idle (not sleep) /without/ sleeve. |
| 20:59:45 | nikos | Kero: With v0.4-bleeding I was getting nearly a week. |
| 20:59:46 | Sir_Earl | I guess everyone's mileage has varied, but some say no even one day. |
| 20:59:58 | nikos | Sir_Earl: It's not working correctly right now. |
| 21:00:07 | Sir_Earl | Oh yeah, does a bug exist when switching from one clock speed to another? |
| 21:00:18 | nikos | Sir_Earl: I think you need to stop on 6. |
| 21:00:30 | nikos | Sir_Earl: Possibly a voltage change issue or something like that. |
| 21:00:36 | Kero | nikos: idle? or after hitting the power buton == sleep? |
| 21:00:47 | nikos | Kero: Power button sleep I mean. |
| 21:00:52 | Kero | okay :) |
| 21:01:06 | nikos | Kero: Sorry, I didn't read you whole post I see now. |
| 21:01:15 | nikos | Kero: I'm lucky to get 24 hours in sleep now. |
| 21:01:22 | nikos | Kero: I haven't tested 2.4.6 yet though. |
| 21:01:26 | Kero | Sir_Earl: I heard Russell king solved that bug. |
| 21:01:27 | Sir_Earl | I missed something...what is '6'? 133Mhz on the scale? |
| 21:01:53 | nikos | Sir_Earl: I think that's right. |
| 21:02:03 | nikos | Kero: So no need to pause on 6 with 2.4.6 you think? |
| 21:02:24 | Sir_Earl | How are you guys keeping the internal clock time/date? |
| 21:02:24 | Kero | thinks we are talking about different bugs... |
| 21:02:31 | Kero | lemme try |
| 21:03:01 | Sir_Earl | how is the bug manifesting itself? Some log entry? Panic? |
| 21:03:04 | mccarthy | did anyone ever make a palm->mingle (or vcard->mingle) converter? |
| 21:03:10 | Kero | Sir_Earl: instant death |
| 21:03:12 | nikos | Sir_Earl: We need hwclock, I usually just ntpdate right now. |
| 21:03:21 | Sir_Earl | Hey Mccarthy. I want that util also. :-) |
| 21:03:21 | sjohnson | Sir_Earl: The RTC |
| 21:03:39 | Kero | `modprobe cpu-scale` Can't locate. What? |
| 21:04:22 | Sir_Earl | What is the best text editor available? |
| 21:05:17 | Sir_Earl | Look at this stuff yet? |
| 21:05:17 | Sir_Earl | http://www.geocities.com/glenn65535/ |
| 21:07:33 | Sir_Earl | Seems like a pretty good linux c64 emulator on that site. |
| 21:07:49 | Sir_Earl | 'vice' though I'm an Atari guy. :-) |
| 21:10:47 | Kero | ``Compile kernel without frame pointer'' your kernel will be smaller :-) |
| 21:15:14 | Kero | erm. does not quite construct a module for me... |
| 21:16:00 | Kero | Hm, perhaps because the file cpu-scale.c got removed from cvs. oops. |