irclog2html for familiar on 2001.07.21

00:57:43UberIpaqwhat package contains 'passwd' ?
01:21:17howespanyone set the 'date' on familiar?
01:22:03bhimayes. doesn't seem persistant across reboots however.
01:24:44howesphow do you set it? i've tried date -s 072012232001, but it fails
01:25:11bhimaI did "date -s july19" and it worked, but obviously not with time, etc.
01:25:12UberIpaqhowesp: ? try: "date -s '10:25pm' "
01:25:38UberIpaqor "date -s 'Jul 19 10:25pm'" - it's pretty flexible
01:26:04howespthe man page seems to be inconsistent. I'll give that a try
01:27:14howespwow! that worked.
01:27:58UberIpaqnow maybe you can help me get "xhost" to work...
02:04:53howespwhat was the xhost problem?
02:08:11UberIpaqwell, as it turns out, my x clients are causing the server to restart
02:08:53UberIpaqex: "xsetroot -solid blue" will set the background blue, then instantly the standard grey-dots X background comes back, and the server is restarting
05:48:28keithp was last seen on #handhelds.org 31 minutes and 22 seconds ago, saying: bhima: Yeah, you mentioned that before.  Sorry. [Sat Jul 21 06:17:06 2001]
05:48:28dneuer_AWAYibot: seen keithp?
16:52:14howesphow does one expand the root filesystem with familiar 0.4?
16:52:58perlanas I recall, 2.4 kernel can have overlapping mounts
16:53:54howespsounds nice, but I have no idea what you just replied
16:54:08nikoshowesp: Can you explain what you mean by expand?
16:54:12perlanyou don't need to expand, you just add a mount
16:54:51nikoshowesp: Do you mean add external space?  Or do you mean that you aren't using all of your flash?
16:57:22howespproblem: my '/' partition is full.  I've the 64 MB version. I would like to expand the root file system
16:58:41nikoshowesp: That's 64MB RAM, not 64MB FlashROM.
16:59:25howespok; that creates a new question. After a reboot. what survives?
16:59:47perlanRAM better survive thru a reboot
17:00:36nikosNo it doesn't.
17:00:42nikosA reboot involves a shutdown.
17:01:09nikosReboot by definition means you start clean.
17:01:16perlanthat doesn't seem very useful
17:01:20nikosHandhelds should not be rebooted.
17:01:28perlancold start, it makes sense
17:01:31nikosExcept in bad situations in which you don't have a choice.
17:01:50nikosWhat would you reboot?
17:01:55nikoserr s/What/Why/
17:02:35perlankernel upgrade, totally mudged serial ports, process out of control....
17:02:53nikosIn which case you can't trust the content of RAM.
17:03:12perlanperhaps
17:03:25perlancertainly OK for a kernel upgrade
17:03:28howespok... So my root file system is full. I want to use some of hte
17:03:35nikosExcepts for those the case of the upgrade, you should not have to reboot.
17:03:50perlannot always true in practice
17:03:55howespram as a file system (so I could image it on harddisk) and down load after a restart.
17:04:02howespnow how do I do that?
17:04:08nikoshowesp: Its mounted at /mnt/ramfs
17:04:40howespwhat move /usr to /mnt/ramfs and link back?
17:05:19nikoshowesp: Its distinctly unsafe to put anything you must rely on in ramfs.
17:05:45nikoshowesp: If you need more permanent storage you are going to have to add external storage, a CF card, a PCMCIA card, NFS, whatever.
17:07:17howespassume I not stupid. This is a new toy, and I'm likely to
17:07:40howespbreak it repeatably as I learn about it. So I would like,
17:08:00howespeven if unsafe to store filesystem space in my RAM
17:08:07howespwhat is a good way?
17:08:16nikoshowesp: I don't know.
17:09:30perlanthe link technique is OK
17:09:40perlanbut not /usr
17:09:54perlan(without a few tricks)
17:20:14fabiosis it possible to establish a ppp connection using a gsm modem thru the infrared port?
17:20:47nikosfabios: I would say the answer is yes, I wouldn't have the first idea where to point you though.  Sory.
17:21:53nikosfabios: I would recommend searching using the search engine at handhelds.org and the wiki.
17:27:03fabiosI've already tried a search on hh's wiki, with no luck
17:28:59nikosfabios: Also try the search on the main site since it has different content.  Including mailing lists.
17:48:46RoMohi
19:04:07RoMois bootldr-0000-2.14.8  up-to-date?
19:13:09nikosRoMo: That's the latest released version I believe.
19:13:17RoMook
19:13:19perlanhost
19:19:52RoMoprogramming flash...erasing ...
19:19:53RoMoErasing sector 00000000
19:19:58RoMo  len=00018A80
19:19:58RoMowriting flash..
19:19:58RoMoaddr: 00000000 data: EA00008E
19:19:58RoMoaddr: 00010000 data: E5DE2004
19:19:58RoMoverifying ... done.
19:20:11perlanyou are doomed ;-)
19:20:18RoMowhat?!?
19:20:21perlanhehehe
19:20:48perlansorry, my evil side got loose
19:21:23RoMoboot> peek flash 0x0
19:21:24RoMo  addr  = 00000000
19:21:24RoMo  value = EA00008E
19:21:25perlanthe calculated values will not always match, just need the 'verifying' bit
19:21:53RoMoboot> peek flash 0x20
19:21:53RoMo  addr  = 00000020
19:21:53RoMo  value = 646C7462
19:22:00RoMoseems fine ?
19:22:08perlanthe calculated values will not always match, just need the 'verifying' bit
19:22:16nikosRoMo: Yep, go ahead and reset.
19:22:19perlani.e.  beats me, I didn't note the values
19:22:24nikosperlan: WRONG
19:22:29nikosperlan: THOSE VALUES MUST MATCH
19:22:43nikosperlan: Its the pflash stuff that doesn't work in osloader.
19:22:45perlanfrom the bootldr portion?
19:22:49nikosBut the peek values are very important.
19:22:53perlanright
19:23:20nikosperlan: The verifying bit doesn't guarantee much.
19:23:25perlantrue
19:23:32perlanas I spent 3 days learning
19:23:40nikos:)
19:23:41RoMoCOOL!
19:23:43nikosThe hard way...
19:23:47RoMo:-))
19:23:47perlanheheh
19:23:50RoMonice splash screen
19:24:01nikosRoMo: Good job, its all down hill from there.
19:24:19perlansometimes with big holes along the way
19:24:22RoMoall amazon.de will admire me ;->
19:24:41RoMothanks a lot!
19:24:51nikosperlan: But none of those holes are fatal.  Once you have a working bootldr you can always back up.
19:24:55perlanthere is more to do yet
19:25:16RoMook
19:25:22perlannikos: another thing I learned along the way
19:25:28nikosRoMo: Be sure to skip to the Setting Bootldr parameters section and follow each step closely.
19:25:30RoMonow i'll install linux
19:25:36RoMook
19:25:46perlanwhat model do you have RoMo ?
19:25:56RoMo3130
19:25:59RoMo32/16
19:26:02RoMofrom www.amazon.de
19:26:05nikosRoMo: Whoa
19:26:06RoMo<portal page>
19:26:10RoMoWhoa ?
19:26:23nikosRoMo: You can't use Familiar v0.4 on a 3100 series.
19:26:47RoMobaa
19:26:50nikosRoMo: You need to try to catch dneuer if you want to use a 3100, work for it is not 100% complete.
19:26:51RoMoi'm an idiot
19:26:52RoMosorry.
19:27:11RoMoits the 3630
19:27:15RoMothe color model
19:27:17RoMonot the old 31
19:27:17nikosAh!!!
19:27:18RoMosorry.
19:27:18nikos:)
19:27:25RoMo<= to lazy at the moment
19:27:29nikosSorry, move ahead.  Nothing to see here...
19:27:37RoMo:P
19:29:00RoMoboot> qflash 2
19:29:01RoMovalue = 00010001
19:29:58nikosRoMo: 2.14.8 is self-protecting.  One of its great virtues.
19:30:49RoMook
19:31:46RoMowhich kernel should i use for the first setup? Familiar v0.4 2.4.3-rmk2-np1 Kernel ?
19:32:01nikosRoMo: I would start with just straight Familiar v0.4.
19:32:05RoMook
19:32:13nikosRoMo: Get a little comfortable with it before upgrading.
19:33:37RoMookay
19:34:03RoMoroot image Familiar v0.4 task-bootstrap.jffs2 ?
19:34:09nikosYep
19:34:21nikosRoMo: Do you have plans for networking?
19:35:17RoMoyes
19:35:26RoMoi'll try a ne2000 lan pcmcia card
19:35:55RoMo1pcmcia jacket: 128 MB CF Card, 2jacket: LAN Card
19:36:22perlandual sleeves need 2.4.6 setup
19:36:59RoMoyes but the dual sleevs will arrive next week
19:37:15RoMoso i'll first install 0.4 and then upgrade.
19:37:21RoMoas nikos said.
19:37:22nikosRoMo: What sleeve do you have for the Lan card now?
19:37:31RoMoatm i have nothing
19:37:37RoMono jacket, no lan card.
19:37:43nikosRoMo: Bootstrap is pretty limited.
19:37:57perlanyou can do basic filetransfers over the serial port
19:38:09nikosinstalling packages that way is problematic.
19:38:19nikosipkg ignores dependencies on locally installed packages.
19:38:27nikosRoMo: How about usbnet or ppp?
19:38:36RoMoppp over serial is no problem
19:38:48RoMoi've a linux box and a windows2k <with winroute> box next to me
19:38:51perlanwhere is the usbnet setup info?
19:38:56usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking
19:38:56nikosibot: usbnet
19:39:04http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto
19:39:04nikosibot: ppp howto
19:39:50RoMoi've another querstion about bootloadr parameter: i've a newer bootloader version than describe in the 0.4 manual. are the parameter still the same ?
19:40:08nikosRoMo: Yes, the paramaters are the same.
19:40:11RoMook
19:40:18perlanyou can check with 'help load'
19:40:43nikosWell, don't place TOO much faith on the internal help, it tends to get out of sync.
19:41:00nikosall the partition help is pretty far off.
19:41:24perlanit lists if load root is available, otherwise it is 'load 0xN000' time
19:42:06perlanpounders why docs are the weakest point of linux, when they are the first to be required
19:44:04BBroxperlan: because writing docs sucks ?
19:44:23BBroxperlan: because a good portion of Linux developpers are not native-english speakers ?
19:44:27RoMoprogramming flash...erasing ...
19:44:27RoMoErasing sector 00040000
19:44:27RoMowriting flash..
19:44:27RoMoaddr: 00040000 data: 646C7470
19:44:27RoMoverifying ... done.
19:44:32RoMook params saved
19:44:33perlannope, programmers tend to have short range goals
19:45:35perlandocumentation is a long range need (it's for the people that come after the creator)
19:46:08BBroxWell, programmers take more pleasure of writing the code than actually have other people use it :-)
19:46:24perlanexactly
19:46:57perlanactually, I think programmers enjoy Using the code more too
19:47:16BBroxSo it should be users that should be writing the documentations
19:47:27BBroxNot the developper :-)
19:47:55perlanthat generally happens, but it's not as good
19:49:46RoMoto provide binary files without an file extionsion through http is very bad
19:50:49BBroxWhen a developper writes documentation, it tends to be a bit too complicated for a 'normal' user
19:51:40perlanah, look at PPP docs sometime, written by author
19:56:22BBroxis very bad at writing docs :-)
19:56:36perlanis not any better
19:56:52RoMohm
19:56:56RoMoi've a problem
19:57:14RoMoi have uploaded the kernel but the addr data is not the same as on the manual page
19:57:24RoMobut it finished with verifying ... done.
19:57:39perlanthe calculated values will not always match, just need the 'verifying' bit
19:57:51RoMoah "Don't be too worried if the numbers do not exactly match up" sorry for asking .
19:57:55perlanbut it's not a guarantee
20:02:13RoMowhat do you use to clean the display?`
20:02:26perlanwhich side?
20:02:42RoMoto clean fingerprints etc.
20:02:47RoMofront side
20:02:49perlanwindex
20:03:47RoMowhat's that?
20:04:06RoMoglass cleaner?
20:04:12perlana glass cleaner
20:04:15RoMohttp://www.windexglasscleaner.com/ ?
20:04:16RoMocool.
20:04:44RoMoin germany we have no windex.
20:05:03BBrox_ZZzzZZzzHmmmm, WinCE source as 'Shared Source'
20:05:22perlanspray bottle, probably some substitute, the front is plastic BTW
20:05:41perlanBBrox:  quake ever get working faster?
20:06:14BBrox_ZZzzZZzzperlan: never spent too much time on it... I think I will wait for the CE people to make optimizations and then steal their changes :-)
20:06:38BBrox_ZZzzZZzzAnyway, to bed now :-)
20:06:44perlannight
20:07:28RoMon8
20:08:01RoMois it possible to install packages via a serial ppp connection instead pcmcia lan?
20:16:59RoMoshit
20:17:03RoMosomething is broken
20:17:30perlanwhich error did you get kernel crc or jffs ?
20:17:33RoMoi have a lots of re-requests of xmodem pakets
20:17:39perlanoh
20:17:43RoMono while uploading the root fs via terminal
20:17:51perlanprobably missed the timing
20:19:13RoMo4000cps
20:19:26RoMo3900cps ...
20:19:28perlanthe timing on getting the transfer started
20:19:44perlanwhat are you using for the serial xfer?
20:19:46RoMountil 3MB anything worked fine
20:19:55RoMohyperterminal and xmodem
20:20:23RoMoi'm at 4.5Mb
20:20:36perlandid you know about this: http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/user/view/cs_msg/3494
20:21:22RoMo>12000 resend attempts
20:21:39RoMoperlan: yes
20:21:49RoMoperlan: but i think it's unmaintained since months
20:22:00perlan:-)
20:22:18RoMofor months.
20:22:33RoMowhy do you ask?
20:22:49perlanwas just looking thru articles and noticed it
20:23:30RoMothey are flashing ipaqs with their mlinux thingy for about 160 DM / 70 USD
20:23:42perlanyuk
20:25:02RoMo5.2 Megs
20:25:12RoMospeed is 3600cps
20:25:58perlanabout 33% of possible, not bad for xmodem and serial networking
20:26:07perlanbut I have seen better...
20:26:19RoMostart speed was over 4000cps
20:27:04RoMobut anyways.. xmodem suxx. zmodem is the best.
20:27:15perlanno handshaking sucks
20:27:22RoMoverifying ... formatting ... done.
20:27:23RoMoboot>
20:27:27RoMook
20:29:11RoMook i'm logged in
20:33:30RoMowhat's the best shutdown way?
20:33:33RoMoshutdown -h
20:33:33RoMo?
20:33:45perlanis there a 'halt' ?
20:33:59RoMothere is the standard halt option
20:34:05RoMono idea what will happen :)
20:38:05RoMohow can i check the battery state ?
20:38:09RoMounder familiar?
20:41:23cmarqu[XXX1302]greetings
20:41:28RoMohi
20:41:32perlancat /proc/apm
20:41:54RoMo# cat /proc/apm
20:41:54RoMo1.13 1.2 0x02 0x00 0xff 0xff 55% 165 sec
20:41:59RoMomeans 55% full?
20:42:02perlansi
20:42:08RoMo:-)
20:42:40cmarqu[XXX1302]soory to interrupt, but with standard kernels, 55% means almost empty
20:43:09perlanoh that's right, RoMo visit the newbieHowto on the Wiki
20:43:31perlangoes for a long walk
20:44:21cmarqu[XXX1302]or check the "Kero van Geldern" page on the wiki
20:44:44RoMoperlan: hehe :P
20:46:59cmarqu[XXX1302]if [ -x /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XftConfig ]; does anybody know how to make that "if NOT executable..."?
20:49:03RoMocmarqu[XXX1302]: where is the Kero van Geldern page?
20:49:10RoMoi cannot find it via the search
20:50:49cmarqu[XXX1302]RoMo: sorry, it's "Gelder": http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/Kero%20van%20Gelder. basically, look at http://members.chello.nl/~k.vangelder/ipaq
20:52:13RoMoah thanks
20:52:22RoMoi'll install it when my ppp is up and running
20:52:26RoMoanyone knows a pppd for w2k ?
20:53:15cmarqu[XXX1302]RoMo: with cygwin, maybe...
20:54:23cmarqu[XXX1302]RoMo: AFAIK, there is nothing to install yet. kero ist still working on scaling the APM interface
20:55:11RoMohm
20:55:16RoModarn my ipaq is down
20:55:24RoMobattery maybe low
20:55:33RoMoeven a reset does nothing
20:56:27RoMoyes it was the battery
20:56:34RoMowith AC he's up again
20:57:40RoMothat was really close
22:16:24romo was last seen on #handhelds.org 57 minutes and 30 seconds ago, saying: but lan + cf should work on a 3630 with the newest kernel? [Sat Jul 21 22:18:54 2001]
22:16:24Keroibot, seen romo?
22:19:46RoMohi
22:24:15Kerohiya!
22:24:48Kerohas sent the path for /proc/apm readings.
22:26:39RoMoI need to setup a ppp connection to my ipaq first
22:26:48RoModo you know a pppd for windows 2k?
22:27:10RoMoi have only one dialup at home and my linux box is connected through my w2k box and winroute
22:27:24RoMoand i hate it to start 2 boxes to connect to the ipaq
22:29:58Kerodoes not use windows.
22:33:03mowseHas there been any progress in the way of USB support for osloader?
22:33:46perlanyou mean bootldr?
22:33:56mowsepardon, yes. bootldr
22:34:42mowseI've modified the usb cable, but it's not suitable for carrying around, since the soldering is kinda fragile
22:34:55perlanto a serial cable?
22:35:12mowseyeah
22:35:33perlanI started with a cradle and just reinstalled it
22:35:34mowsesoldering to "con2" on the small piece of breadboard in the base station
22:35:52mowseto a DB9 cable that is
22:36:04mowsebut like I said, it's pretty nasty
22:36:17perlanuse some superglue to hold down the wires
22:36:32mowsewell, a solution to the cable isn't really what I'm looking for
22:36:46mowseI was curious if anyone had made an attempt at usb support
22:36:58perlanprobably no one is really interested
22:37:45mowseuh huh.
22:40:33RoMoForcere

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