| 00:33:15 | dtmf` | hi how you do you set a network card using dhcp in familiar? |
| 00:33:47 | jg | You plug it in... |
| 00:36:20 | jg | dtmf: any more questions? |
| 00:46:18 | dtmf` | it's not finding my cable modem |
| 01:03:20 | dtmf` | sd |
| 02:15:48 | pkomarek | jacques_work: howdy |
| 02:17:30 | jacques_work | hi pkomarek |
| 02:18:27 | pkomarek | jacques_work: you ever work with lvm under linux or similar under another OS (figured you were a good candidate to ask as a sysadmin)? |
| 02:19:48 | jacques_work | pkomarek: no :-\ |
| 02:21:03 | pkomarek | jacques_work: okay. I don't know if yo saw my post today, I'm wondering whether I could set up my root dev as the first device in a logical volume, and dynamical "grow" it with a CF card. That way I wouldn't have use a bunch of symlinks from /etc/whatever to /mnt/hda/etc/whatever |
| 02:23:21 | jacques_work | pkomarek: intersting - I will check out your post |
| 02:25:14 | pkomarek | jacques_work: well, there's really nothing more in the post -- I was hoping someone that new more about lvm would comment. My motivation is that teTeX is gigantic. I've got it paired down to under 10MB, but still...and I've discovered what a disaster it is to maintain tex outside of the default configuration. I expect few people share this motivation. |
| 02:25:31 | pkomarek | s/new/knew/ |
| 02:30:51 | pkomarek | jacques_work: It just seemed like it shouldn't be too hard to 1) add a the CF card to the volume, 2) force all writes to go to either the ipaq's flash or else the CF card, and/or 3) do something that allowed the write-device to be selected according to the path |
| 02:31:52 | pkomarek | jacques_work: er, that last part was confusing: some kind of config like "writes to /root and /etc go to ipaq, writes to /usr goes to cf" but have reads go to both. |
| 02:37:46 | jacques_work | pkomarek: I guess work on union mount is going slowly :-\ |
| 02:38:17 | pkomarek | jacques_work: aha, just the reason I chose to bug you in particular! What do you mean union mount? |
| 02:38:27 | pkomarek | is google'ing away |
| 02:39:41 | jacques_work | pkomarek: you can mount one fs on top of another |
| 02:40:04 | jacques_work | pkomarek: is any files conflict, the last one mounted takes precedence |
| 02:40:15 | pkomarek | jacques_work: and you have evidence that someone is working on this? |
| 02:40:42 | jacques_work | pkomarek: well, I have used it on other OS's (Solaris I believe) |
| 02:40:56 | jacques_work | and I know there is work on it under linux |
| 02:41:14 | jacques_work | but not much more - I have seen jg mention it a few times too I think |
| 02:41:21 | pkomarek | jacques_work: I'm finding old traces of it on lkml...still google'ing |
| 02:41:39 | pkomarek | jacques_work: It appears that FreeBSD has done this for a while. |
| 02:42:37 | jacques_work | I wish I knew the status of union mounts on linux |
| 02:42:46 | | jacques_work: what? |
| 02:42:46 | jacques_work | ibot: union mount |
| 02:42:51 | | jacques_work: i'm not following you... |
| 02:42:51 | jacques_work | ibot: union mounts |
| 02:44:50 | pkomarek | well if ibot doesn't know, it must not exist... ;-) |
| 02:48:08 | jacques_work | HEH |
| 02:48:22 | jacques_work | ibot: search for union |
| 02:54:35 | pkomarek | jacques_work: (I'm still reading) looks like it exists in the 2.4.x series, with some brokenness. Right now the most recent thing I've seen is talk of a patch that fixed some brokenness in 2.4.5. |
| 02:58:35 | jacques_work | pkomarek: intersting, but I think the file systems it supports (which support it?) are limited - I mean does jffs2 support it? |
| 02:59:18 | pkomarek | jacques_work: well, I'm grep'ing in the kernel tree right now, and haven't found much. It's mentioned in Documentation/filesystems/Locking |
| 03:00:12 | pkomarek | jacques_work: thank goodness most C programmers don't use the union type, else this grep'ing would be really awful. |
| 03:01:26 | pkomarek | jacques_work: doh, bad grep expression, now I'm getting more hits... |
| 03:02:14 | jacques_work | pkomarek: yeh, I think union in C s frowned upon these days - especially in portable code |
| 03:10:40 | pkomarek | jacques_work: In the usage() function of mount.c, there is the following code: |
| 03:10:43 | pkomarek | )); |
| 03:10:43 | pkomarek | "Union or stack mounts are specified using one of\n" |
| 03:10:43 | pkomarek | " --replace, --after, --before, --over\n" |
| 03:10:43 | pkomarek | */ |
| 03:10:43 | pkomarek | unlock_mtab(); |
| 03:11:07 | pkomarek | jacques_work: er, that didn't paste to well. There is stuff about unions, but it is commented out. |
| 03:13:25 | jacques_work | hmm, I wonder what the difference between before, after, and over is |
| 03:15:22 | pkomarek | jacques_work: I think is affects what is visible and such. I can't be specific, I've only been an expert for half an hour now! |
| 03:15:36 | jacques_work | :-) |
| 03:15:56 | dtmf | # ifconfig |
| 03:15:56 | dtmf | lo Link encap:Local Loopback |
| 03:15:56 | dtmf | inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 |
| 03:15:56 | dtmf | UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:3904 Metric:1 |
| 03:15:56 | dtmf | RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 |
| 03:15:56 | dtmf | TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 |
| 03:15:58 | dtmf | collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 |
| 03:16:00 | dtmf | RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) |
| 03:16:05 | dtmf | why won't dhcp work in familiar |
| 03:16:25 | dtmf | I created the resolv.conf in /etc |
| 03:16:29 | pkomarek | jacques_work: I'm guessing after and before are additive or subtractive, while over and replace are (different?) ways of obscuring previous mounts |
| 03:17:06 | jacques_work | cool |
| 03:17:58 | dtmf | # pump -i lo -h ipaq |
| 03:18:04 | dtmf | is that the right syntax? |
| 03:18:55 | dtmf | Operation failed. |
| 03:18:59 | dtmf | hrm |
| 03:19:00 | dtmf | guess not |
| 03:19:04 | a7r | dtmf: why would you run a DHCP client on your loopback interface? |
| 03:19:08 | pkomarek | dtmf: what exactly are you trying to accomplish? I've never used dhcp to assign an address to the lo network. |
| 03:19:20 | dtmf | it suppose to be eth0 |
| 03:19:33 | dtmf | but it doesn't show up in ifconfig for some reason |
| 03:19:46 | pkomarek | dtmf: does ifconfig -a show eth0? |
| 03:19:49 | a7r | dtmf: what comes out on the console? |
| 03:19:51 | dtmf | nope |
| 03:20:03 | dtmf | # ifconfig |
| 03:20:03 | dtmf | lo Link encap:Local Loopback |
| 03:20:03 | dtmf | inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 |
| 03:20:03 | dtmf | UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:3904 Metric:1 |
| 03:20:03 | dtmf | RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 |
| 03:20:03 | dtmf | TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 |
| 03:20:05 | dtmf | collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 |
| 03:20:07 | dtmf | RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) |
| 03:20:09 | dtmf | # |
| 03:21:03 | pkomarek | dtmf: try insmod'ing the appropriate drivers manually, and seeing if ifconfig -a will show eth0. If that can't be arranged, dhcp is the least of your worries. |
| 03:21:28 | pkomarek | dtmf: (this is all assuming your network interface is already inserted, of course) |
| 03:21:48 | dtmf | lemme reset the ipaq |
| 03:22:11 | pkomarek | is taking a 6 minute typing break. |
| 03:22:28 | dtmf | when I insert my card |
| 03:22:30 | dtmf | I get |
| 03:22:33 | dtmf | # bitsy_pcmcia_configure_socket: socket=0 vcc=50 vpp=50 reset=0 |
| 03:22:33 | dtmf | bitsy_pcmcia_configure_socket: socket=0 vcc=50 vpp=50 reset=1 |
| 03:22:33 | dtmf | bitsy_pcmcia_configure_socket: socket=0 vcc=50 vpp=50 reset=0 |
| 03:22:33 | dtmf | cardmgr[59]: initializing socket 0 |
| 03:22:33 | dtmf | cardmgr[59]: unsupported card in socket 0 |
| 03:22:33 | dtmf | cardmgr[59]: product info: "iPort", "CF 10M Ethernet Card", "", "" |
| 03:22:35 | dtmf | cardmgr[59]: manfid: 0x8a01, 0x0100 function: 6 (network) |
| 03:22:41 | dtmf | # |
| 03:22:56 | dtmf | but ifconfig only show |
| 03:22:58 | dtmf | # ifconfig |
| 03:22:58 | dtmf | lo Link encap:Local Loopback |
| 03:22:58 | dtmf | inet addr:127.0.0.1 Mask:255.0.0.0 |
| 03:22:58 | dtmf | UP LOOPBACK RUNNING MTU:3904 Metric:1 |
| 03:22:58 | dtmf | RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0 |
| 03:22:59 | dtmf | TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 |
| 03:23:00 | dtmf | collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 |
| 03:23:02 | dtmf | RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b) |
| 03:23:04 | dtmf | # |
| 03:23:43 | dtmf | so my card is not supported |
| 03:23:45 | dtmf | hrm |
| 03:24:27 | jacques_work | heading home... |
| 05:27:32 | bhima | Hrm. where do "net-pf-4" and "net-pf-5" come from? |
| 05:32:19 | pkomarek | bhima: they are used for appletalk and ipx. Check out linux/Documentation/modules.txt |
| 05:32:46 | bhima | hey pko :) |
| 05:32:48 | pkomarek | bhima: (very bottom of file) |
| 05:32:59 | pkomarek | bhima: Hi there. How do you feel now that the faxes are sent? |
| 05:33:10 | bhima | hmm. wondering why iwconfig complains about them... |
| 05:33:26 | bhima | err, complains taht they're not there. |
| 05:33:30 | pkomarek | bhima: iwconfig not ifconfig? |
| 05:33:36 | bhima | wireless config. |
| 05:33:38 | pkomarek | bhima: is it iwconfig, or modprobe? |
| 05:33:44 | pkomarek | bhima: (that is complaining) |
| 05:33:50 | bhima | iwconfig produces a modprobe warning. |
| 05:34:20 | bhima | and. today has been very stressful and irritating for reasons entirely unrelated to the protest stuff. |
| 05:34:31 | pkomarek | bhima: =-( |
| 05:35:08 | pkomarek | bhima: I wouldn't worry about the modprobe warnings. If you want them to go away, add something like (hope this pastes well): |
| 05:35:11 | pkomarek | alias net-pf-3 off # turn off ax25 |
| 05:35:11 | pkomarek | alias net-pf-4 off # turn off ipx |
| 05:35:11 | pkomarek | alias net-pf-5 off # turn off appletalk |
| 05:35:19 | pkomarek | bhima: to modules.conf |
| 05:36:41 | pkomarek | bhima: Just as soon as you showed up, xwrits kicked in. I'll be back in 6 minutes. |
| 05:36:44 | bhima | hmm. it also says no wireless extensions. |
| 05:46:09 | pkomarek | bhima: I'm back |
| 05:46:27 | pkomarek | bhima: I figured that putting the signs out in the rain probably wasn't a lot of fun today. |
| 05:48:35 | bhima | pko: actually, signs didn't do up today outside of CMU. rain, and some other unrelated problems stopped that from happening. |
| 05:49:09 | bhima | Tomorrow I am going to stick stuff up around squill, finish plastering campus, and think about other areas. |
| 05:49:42 | bhima | I'm not that optimistic about huge numbers of people coming due to signs though - I'm surprised how uninformed even people around CMU are with the DMCA. |
| 05:50:00 | bhima | A fair number of my friends are totally informed, but a lot of people aren't. |
| 05:50:13 | bhima | it's rather disheartening. |
| 05:50:18 | pkomarek | bhima: I can't say I'm surpised, but certainly I have been disappointed. |
| 05:51:09 | bhima | I think we'll get enough people showing up to be worthwhile. |
| 05:51:47 | pkomarek | bhima: just went to the yahoogroups page, how is it that we had 13 messages in July? |
| 05:52:38 | pkomarek | bhima: Can you put the URL for the web page (the angelfire page) on the yahoogroups page in the description field? |
| 05:52:51 | bhima | oh. ack. I thought it was there. will fix that. |
| 05:53:57 | bhima | and. wtf. this guy seems to think that the improbability of randomly selecting the alphabet in correct order somehow suggests that evolution is wrong. |
| 05:54:51 | bhima | the joke my HS math teacher made, when he threw a few cards on a desk, pointed out how improbable the layout was, and said, "see? god exists!" seemed a little too sarcastic. |
| 05:55:18 | bhima | but apparently not. they'll even give you a prize for running their applet thingy. |
| 05:55:41 | pkomarek | bhima: what are you looking at? |
| 05:56:33 | pkomarek | bhima: and just why does he think things are now in the "correct order"? Seems much more likely that we hit highly probable class of "not in the correct order". |
| 05:56:40 | bhima | http://www.shadowgov.com/evolve/index.htm |
| 05:57:16 | bhima | pko: yeah. precisely. I'm not convinced that there is any reason we couldn't be saying our "cab's" :) |
| 05:59:04 | pkomarek | bhima: I just sent them an email to that effect. |
| 06:00:53 | bhima | good luck :) |
| 06:01:11 | pkomarek | bhima: I'm not hoping for anything. |
| 06:01:26 | pkomarek | bhima: but *I* feel better. =-) |
| 06:01:27 | bhima | same freaks who have an essay about why christians are nicer than god. |
| 06:01:41 | pkomarek | bhima: now that is an interesting perspective. |
| 06:01:57 | bhima | the funniest thing was the essay about chicken fucking. |
| 06:02:13 | pkomarek | bhima: I don't want to know any more... |
| 06:02:21 | bhima | Larry Flynt once fucked a chicken. |
| 06:02:39 | pkomarek | bhima: What did I just say? ;-) |
| 06:02:43 | bhima | Somebody wrote something which, every so often, reminded him that there are no chickens in hell. |
| 06:03:05 | bhima | oh, sorry :) |
| 06:03:14 | bhima | <--- rotten.com regular |
| 06:03:20 | bhima | <--- not squeamish |
| 06:03:59 | pkomarek | bhima: I'm not particularly squeamish, but I think I'm not all that interested in how chickens spend their free time, either. =-) |
| 06:06:19 | pkomarek | bhima: let's allow the chicken's to maintain their pride. |
| 06:08:09 | bhima | oh, great license plate: http://vatican.rotten.com/florida-peach/ |
| 06:08:59 | pkomarek | bhima: the url didn't work for me, but no worries -- I'm busy writing a script. |
| 06:09:22 | bhima | really? odd. |
| 06:09:30 | bhima | It's "A55 RGY" |
| 06:09:33 | bhima | Florida. |
| 06:09:47 | bhima | with a big round orange thing between the 5 and the R. |
| 06:10:16 | pkomarek | bhima: doh. |
| 06:10:30 | pkomarek | bhima: well, 25 minutes later, time for another typing break. |
| 06:19:26 | pkomarek | bhima: back again. |
| 06:22:33 | bhima | re. |
| 06:28:52 | bhima | mmm, Newton wavelan. |
| 06:49:02 | pkomarek | I'm turnin' in. Goodnight. |
| 13:40:28 | Sheilataur | Morning, folks... |
| 13:42:04 | Sheilataur | Got a question about developing on the iPaq...I'm the release coordinator for the Hercules project, an IBM mainframe emulator for Linux. It looks like Linux on the iPaq is far enough along that I can think about possibly porting Hercules. Is Familiar complete enough that I can do development there? |
| 13:43:36 | Kero | Sheilataur: I'll try to answer your question. |
| 13:43:49 | Sheilataur | okkay... |
| 13:44:08 | Kero | familiar runs on the iPAQ, which has 16 or 32 MB flash and 32 or 64 MB RAM. |
| 13:44:16 | Kero | It contains no development environment. |
| 13:44:49 | Kero | intimate is the distro that is meant for an iPAQ with a microdrive. |
| 13:45:11 | Kero | It contains far more packages, iirc, probably including gcc and such. |
| 13:45:22 | Kero | Try #intimate as well |
| 13:46:10 | Kero | Third, compaq connected a few iPAQ-like units to the internet. |
| 13:46:15 | Sheilataur | okkay...yeah, I'll need a microdrive, since the disk images Hercules uses aren't small. How much free RAM is there in a 32 MB iPaq with nothing but the OS and user interface running? |
| 13:46:28 | Kero | Those are skiffcluster1-6].handhelds.org. |
| 13:47:09 | Kero | You can compile natively on them for iPAQ; much better than crosscompiling :) |
| 13:48:57 | Kero | shoots his apps and sees 11 MB usable RAM. |
| 13:49:18 | Sheilataur | ah, good, since Hercules uses lots of RAM...at minimum, about 6 MB. |
| 13:49:48 | Kero | X munches quite a lot :( |
| 13:50:07 | Sheilataur | yeah, and Hercules allocates all of the RAM th emulated system has defined at one shot. |
| 13:50:32 | Kero | note: I have a 32 MB model, other iPAQs have 64, which might be more convenient for you :) |
| 13:50:39 | Kero | at least while porting. |
| 13:51:55 | Kero | does not know whether an nfs-mount over USB (cradle) would be faster or slower than a microdrive. |
| 13:52:23 | Sheilataur | yeah. Looks like installing intimate requires installing Familiar first....What provides IP connectivity over USB? Is that the standard Compaq software, or do I need to talk to it some other way? |
| 13:52:36 | Kero | has a serial cradle... |
| 13:53:09 | Kero | I think network over USB has been done, but I don't know how. |
| 13:53:12 | Sheilataur | ah. |
| 13:53:32 | Sheilataur | I just signed up for the test drive. |
| 13:53:34 | Kero | You have looked at www.handhelds.org and its wiki? |
| 13:54:00 | Kero | You have found http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/releases/v0.4/install/H3600/install.html |
| 13:54:00 | Sheilataur | looking now. |
| 13:54:53 | Kero | You can probably find info about network over USB somewhere |
| 13:55:17 | Sheilataur | yeah, saw that...it calls out a serial cradle, which I may or may not get (haven't bought an iPaq yet, just explotring the possibilities). |
| 13:55:39 | Kero | i c |
| 13:56:09 | Sheilataur | Trying to decide if I wanna spend the several hundred bucks on an iPaq and a microdrive. (The point of doing this is to have a mainframe OS running on a palmtop.) |
| 13:56:50 | Kero | emulated, even :) |
| 13:56:55 | Sheilataur | yup. |
| 13:57:16 | sjohnson_zzZz | usb networking is realy easy to setu up and run. |
| 13:57:21 | Kero | Is this Hercules project your job or a hobby? |
| 13:57:26 | Sheilataur | If I get a 64 MB iPaq, sounds like I can run Hercules with a 16 MB emulated machine, too. |
| 13:57:34 | Sheilataur | http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules |
| 13:57:46 | Sheilataur | It's a hobby...I'm an old IBM mainframe systems programmer. |
| 13:58:01 | Sheilataur | what's it talk to on the other end, sj? |
| 13:58:27 | sjohnson | For no it has to be a recent linux machine using a recent 2.4.4+ kernel |
| 13:58:32 | Sheilataur | okkay. |
| 13:58:51 | sjohnson | Sheilataur: But you can get 12Mbps half duplex out of it. |
| 13:59:09 | Sheilataur | yeah...I've got a Linux box that can be made to do the job. |
| 13:59:37 | Sheilataur | (Since the disk images I'll be transferring are a couple of hundred MB, that's a Good Thing.) How big a microdrive will the iPaq support? |
| 14:00:04 | sjohnson | Sheilataur: Any of them. That are all IDE devices to the linux |
| 14:00:11 | Kero | Can a udrive actually do the few MB/s it is supposed to in an iPAQ? |
| 14:00:15 | Sheilataur | okkay...how big do they make? |
| 14:00:46 | sjohnson | 340 to 1GB. Toshiba has PCMCIA drives that go to 5GB. |
| 14:01:05 | Sheilataur | ah. but I'll need a PCMCIA sleeve to use that, right? |
| 14:01:13 | Sheilataur | How big is intimate, installed? |
| 14:01:14 | sjohnson | Sheilataur: Correct. |
| 14:01:55 | sjohnson | Sheilataur: I don't recall. I haven't look at it recently. |
| 14:01:58 | Sheilataur | okkay. |
| 14:02:05 | Sheilataur | I'll look at that in the testdrive. |
| 14:02:22 | sjohnson | Hang on. Let me see. |
| 14:05:08 | sjohnson | With all of the debian packages updated. Mine uses ~ 185MB |
| 14:05:20 | Sheilataur | ah, then I don't have a space problem. good. |
| 14:05:27 | Sheilataur | Thanks for the help...I need to run. |
| 14:05:43 | sjohnson | NP |
| 14:20:43 | | i heard ppp was http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 14:20:43 | damian | ibot: ppp |
| 14:32:24 | Cameron | yells, "GOOD MORNING!" all the way to the dark corners of Cyberspace |
| 14:33:08 | damian | heh, morn :) |
| 14:34:22 | Cameron | :) |
| 14:41:00 | BBrox | Cameron: you should not yell in too many channels at once :-) |
| 14:57:13 | Cameron | BBrox: Yeah...I know... |
| 14:58:20 | Cameron | BBrox: I typed this in #linuxhelp right after: |
| 14:58:45 | Cameron | unfortunately has a problem that makes it hard for him to type /me without an a before the m. |
| 14:58:55 | Cameron | ;) |
| 16:51:41 | martin | can anyone tell me what module is used to create /dev/dsp on familiar? |
| 16:54:28 | DragonEagle | martin: soundcore.o |
| 16:54:59 | DragonEagle | reauires sa1100-uda1341.o |
| 16:55:16 | DragonEagle | /reauires/requires/ |
| 16:55:28 | martin | ah, cool.... where can I get this? |
| 16:55:45 | DragonEagle | it should be in the kernel modules ipkg |
| 16:56:05 | martin | cool, thanks DragonEagle 8-) |
| 16:56:12 | DragonEagle | np |
| 16:56:15 | martin | :) |
| 17:04:04 | martin | thanks again :) my dsp is working now :))))) |
| 17:04:33 | DragonEagle | cool, enjoy |
| 17:04:48 | martin | I shall indeed 8-) |
| 17:08:46 | martin | bye, thanks again :)))) |
| 18:44:27 | EatingEagle | is away: no really it's lunch time |
| 19:02:38 | EatingEagle | is back |
| 22:22:06 | mutex | iobt usbnet |
| 22:22:10 | | usbnet is probably at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking |
| 22:22:10 | mutex | ibot usbnet |
| 22:23:52 | mutex | hrm... i get unresolved symbols after compiling the usbnet driver |
| 22:25:32 | mutex | when doing depmod... but it inserts fine, odd |
| 23:30:25 | DragonVeggie | is away: tv time |