| 01:44:42 | mindrape | werd jerkies |
| 01:45:00 | mindrape | i figured out why i wasn't able to flash the ipaq |
| 01:45:33 | mindrape | it seems muh ihaq ipaq cd is broked, and minicom doens't complian if there are errors reading from the device |
| 01:52:15 | finalfantasydog | brb |
| 02:23:58 | flypiper | ?? |
| 02:35:26 | mindrape | ?!@#$!@ |
| 02:35:33 | mindrape | h0h0h0 |
| 02:35:44 | mindrape | let's see if this reflash works |
| 02:36:00 | mindrape | minicom doesn't relay file read errors =( |
| 02:40:54 | flypiper | I have an expansion pack question |
| 02:45:52 | mindrape | i may not be able help, but in these kinds of channels, its encouraged to lay it out on the table, just ask, don't ask to ask =) |
| 02:47:19 | flypiper | K..sorry....I installed linux on my ipaq then recieved my expansion pack. Now the ipaq doesn't seem to see the pack |
| 02:47:47 | flypiper | I was wondering if i should reinstall cd and do the rom upgrade then install linux again to fix this problem? |
| 02:47:56 | flypiper | not cd CE |
| 02:51:36 | mindrape | hmm |
| 02:51:51 | mindrape | wot expansion pack? or are you talking about the jacket? |
| 02:52:10 | flypiper | yea the dual slot sleve |
| 02:52:14 | mindrape | ah |
| 02:52:18 | mindrape | you need the 2.4.6 kernel |
| 02:52:41 | flypiper | Let me check I think I have the 2.4 |
| 02:53:21 | mindrape | http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/Linux2.4.6 |
| 02:53:27 | mindrape | there j0o go s1r |
| 02:54:28 | flypiper | thank you very much..!!:) |
| 02:55:29 | mindrape | lemme know how it works |
| 02:55:32 | mindrape | i like to get a dual sleeve |
| 02:55:43 | mindrape | but right now i'm trying to figure out how to reset the keyboard upon resume =( |
| 02:56:54 | flypiper | sorry I can't help you there |
| 04:03:35 | DragonEagle_dennys | is away: must...ge.t...cof....fee |
| 07:55:07 | SleepingDragon | is away: I don't like spam |
| 12:23:54 | Disconnect | morning all |
| 12:43:17 | coqueiro | hey |
| 12:44:28 | coqueiro | Can I install Familiar on my iPAQ using the serial autosync cable (not the RS232)? |
| 12:46:26 | Disconnect | coqueiro: yah, thats the ccable they mean - serial autosync or cradle |
| 13:14:51 | joyjas | Hi does anybody know why when I use Hyper terminal to connect to my ipaq running v0.4. When trying to edit files with vi I can't navigate with the arrow keys I can input commands ie :q and it exits but if I insert and type I see nothing |
| 13:15:29 | Disconnect | joyjas: vi is wacky on the ipaq, nobody is quite sure why. I like ae, but there is also iv and at least one other. |
| 13:16:26 | nikos | joyjas: Also, check your terminal settings in Hyperterminal. |
| 13:18:12 | dneuer | hi |
| 13:21:17 | joyjas | My settings are 115200 8N1 no flow control. Just tried iv, iv does the trick. Thanks both of you |
| 13:21:45 | nikos | joyjas: No, I mean the term type settings. |
| 13:21:51 | nikos | joyjas: Not the communication settings. |
| 13:22:05 | nikos | joyjas: Umm, vi is a symlink to iv. They are the same thing. |
| 13:22:22 | nikos | Disconnect: You realize that right? |
| 13:23:35 | Disconnect | nikos: are they? my ipaq had vi as "vi*ipkg" and iv was a whole separate package. |
| 13:24:34 | nikos | Disconnect: Well, that is certainly the case in the images. Check the vi file, I think you will find it is just a symlink. |
| 13:24:47 | | i think unstable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 13:24:47 | nikos | ibot: unstable feed |
| 13:25:08 | nikos | Disconnect: I see no vi package. vim maybe, but not vi. |
| 13:25:15 | | somebody said bleeding feed was http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/bleeding/ |
| 13:25:15 | nikos | ibot: bleeding feed |
| 13:25:25 | Disconnect | dunno. never used iv - gave up on vi/iv/vim/etc and went to ae. |
| 13:25:54 | Disconnect | will hook up his ipaq after getting some work done and see if they areally are different - might be that vim is part of task-bootstrap but iv isn't or some such. |
| 13:26:13 | nikos | Disconnect: Other way around. |
| 13:27:04 | Disconnect | wow. galeon just took 500 megs of ram (and was rapidly climbing)... |
| 13:27:23 | joyjas | Sorry nikos I was just playing around with vi/iv. Actually they both seem to have the same characteristics. Unfortunately I am using a pc with a Chinese version of windows so I have a little trouble delving with the term type settings. What should it be anyway? |
| 13:27:48 | nikos | joyjas: I'm not sure, but vt100 should be OK. |
| 13:28:01 | nikos | joyjas: I'm afraid I haven't used hyperterminal in a long time. |
| 13:28:10 | joyjas | Thanks I'll try to find it in help. |
| 13:28:22 | nikos | joyjas: Do you have net connectivity on your ipaq? |
| 13:28:48 | joyjas | Not as of yet |
| 13:29:25 | nikos | joyjas: Download ae and slang1 packages and transfer them over to the ipaq with zmodem. Then ipkg install slang1 then ae packages and try using ae instead. |
| 13:29:32 | Disconnect | uses vt102 and that sorta works. |
| 13:29:40 | nikos | Disconnect: Yeah, that's a good choice. |
| 13:29:43 | Disconnect | (sorta == 99.9% of the time its fine) |
| 13:30:00 | joyjas | I installed the task-bootstrap image and wanted to edit ipkg.conf lastnight Will do that thanks |
| 13:30:02 | Disconnect | but thats from linux, in THEORY hyperterm would work as well if you set it to vt102 on both ends. |
| 13:30:07 | mpakula | terrys: are you around ? |
| 13:31:47 | dneuer | joyjas: I use vim-tiny, and I'm *very* pleased with it. If you're a vi fan, you might want to try that. |
| 13:31:49 | mpakula | nikos: i did ipkg upgrade once again ipkg install task-x , rebooted and still the same ;( is wn a separate ipkg ? |
| 13:32:14 | Disconnect | mpakula: try installing ion..? |
| 13:32:32 | dneuer | joyjas: only issue is, I submitted it to the feed, but I don't think that a7r included it, so you'd have to get it from me or build it from the debain dpkg yourself |
| 13:32:47 | nikos | mpakula: Look at /etc/init.d/x |
| 13:33:08 | nikos | mpakula: You should see a reference to /etc/alternatives/window-manager which should be a symlink to a wm, check that. |
| 13:35:31 | joyjas | dneuer I have installed slang1 and ae. How do you save a file with it? |
| 13:35:43 | joyjas | Never used it before |
| 13:36:03 | nikos | joyjas: It's sort of like emacs. |
| 13:36:16 | nikos | joyjas: ^X ^S to save. |
| 13:36:23 | nikos | joyjas: ^X ^C to exit. |
| 13:36:28 | dneuer | joyjas: I don't use ae, so I don't remember |
| 13:36:41 | nikos | or is it ^X ^W to write out? Anyway, try both. |
| 13:36:52 | Disconnect | uses ^X^W but thats just me. I think both work. |
| 13:36:54 | nikos | File read and write ^X I ^X^W Left, down, up, right ^B ^N ^P ^F |
| 13:36:54 | nikos | Quit save, Abort ^X^C ^Q Word left and right <esc>B <esc>F |
| 13:36:54 | nikos | Macros, Version ^M ^X^V Page down and up ^V <esc>V |
| 13:36:55 | | Alt is telephone button (Contacts), shift is Q-menu, control is Arrow, Audiorecord is mod2, Calendar is mod3 |
| 13:36:55 | Disconnect | ibot: ctrl |
| 13:36:56 | nikos | Help on and off ^X^H Front and end of line ^A ^E |
| 13:36:56 | nikos | Redraw ^L Top and end of file <esc>< <esc>> |
| 13:36:56 | nikos | Insert typed keys Delete left and right BACKSPACE DEL |
| 13:36:59 | nikos | Literal escape ^[ Block, cut, paste ^@ ^W ^Y |
| 13:36:59 | nikos | Undo ^_ Invert case <esc>C |
| 13:37:12 | mpakula | nikos: don't have pyditor that I was using the last time besides in /etc/ there is not alternatives directory |
| 13:37:36 | joyjas | Thanks for the commands I will give ae a go. |
| 13:37:39 | nikos | mpakula: What do you see happening in /etc/init.d/x to start a window manager? |
| 13:38:34 | nikos | mpakula: just cat the file. |
| 13:40:59 | terrys | mpakula: you called... |
| 13:41:54 | mpakula | nikos : that's cat /etc/init.d/x |
| 13:41:54 | mpakula | cat /etc/init.d/x:00 UTC 2001e stamp |
| 13:41:55 | mpakula | #!/bin/sh0 1 |
| 13:41:57 | mpakula | # |
| 13:41:58 | mpakula | if [ ! -x /usr/X11R6/bin/Xipaq ] ; then exit 0 ; fi version 2.78 booting |
| 13:42:01 | mpakula | D |
| 13:42:01 | mpakula | Mou |
| 13:42:01 | mpakula | . /etc/profilesystems...'mas |
| 13:42:03 | mpakula | killproc() { # kill the named process(es) on /mnt/ramfsboot |
| 13:42:05 | mpakula | INIT: Switching to runlev |
| 13:42:07 | mpakula | pid=`/bin/ps -e |pe devpts (rw,mode=0622)s |
| 13:42:09 | mpakula | /bin/grep $1 |ug 15 14:11:02 2 |
| 13:42:11 | mpakula | mount: pro |
| 13:42:13 | mpakula | /bin/sed -e 's/^ *//' -e 's/ .*//'`lating module dependencies... done. for reboot NO |
| 13:42:15 | mpakula | [ "$pid" != "" ] && kill $pidules: apm h3600_init_module:init_modu |
| 13:42:17 | mpakula | } |
| 13:42:19 | mpakula | export USER=rootdevicen/ntpdate: |
| 13:42:21 | mpakula | export HOME=/rootT: Sending Saving |
| 13:42:23 | mpakula | export XAPPLRESDIR=/usr/X11R6/lib/app-defaultsssful init major= 254 irq=15 |
| 13:42:25 | nikos | What is all that? |
| 13:42:25 | mpakula | export XFILESEARCHPATH=./%N%S%C.ad:/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/%L/%T/%N%S%C:/ueady=0 |
| 13:42:31 | mpakula | cd $HOMEqug (1.7) instal |
| 13:42:33 | mpakula | # start off server in conventional location.tting the System Clock using the Hardware Cl |
| 13:42:35 | mpakula | Xipaq -screen 240x320@270 -dpi 100 & in root is up to date |
| 13:42:37 | mpakula | Cann |
| 13:42:39 | mpakula | bl 1 1 32ware Clock via an |
| 13:42:41 | mpakula | if [ -f /etc/xcalibrate.conf ]; then installed in root is u |
| 13:42:43 | mpakula | Use the --debug opti |
| 13:42:45 | mpakula | echo "Restoring touch screen calibration"l-2.4. |
| 13:42:47 | mpakula | cardmgr[79]: exiting) installed in root |
| 13:42:49 | mpakula | Deactivat |
| 13:42:51 | mpakula | /usr/X11R6/bin/xcalibrate -cal `cax1125 devi |
| 13:42:53 | mpakula | # set initial cycle values to something more sensible... |
| 13:42:55 | mpakula | xset s 30 180 |
| 13:42:57 | mpakula | # then disable it.... |
| 13:42:59 | mpakula | xset s off |
| 13:43:01 | mpakula | # -nocpp since there is no C pre-processor. |
| 13:43:03 | mpakula | xrdb -load -nocpp < /etc/X11/Xdefaults |
| 13:43:05 | mpakula | xrdb -load -nocpp < /root/.Xdefaults |
| 13:43:07 | mpakula | [ -x /usr/bin/gtk-menu ] && gtk-menu & |
| 13:43:09 | mpakula | sleep 1; |
| 13:43:11 | mpakula | [ -x /usr/X11R6/bin/xstroke ] && xstroke & |
| 13:43:13 | mpakula | ;; |
| 13:43:15 | mpakula | 'stop') |
| 13:43:17 | mpakula | echo "Killing X..." |
| 13:43:19 | mpakula | killproc Xipaq |
| 13:43:19 | nikos | mpakula: Surely that is not pasting right? |
| 13:43:21 | mpakula | ;; |
| 13:43:23 | mpakula | *) |
| 13:43:25 | mpakula | echo "usage: $0 { start | stop }" |
| 13:43:27 | mpakula | ;; |
| 13:43:29 | mpakula | esac |
| 13:43:31 | mpakula | terrys: buddy ? |
| 13:43:33 | mpakula | nikos: sorry my error wrong button on my mouse ;( |
| 13:45:06 | terrys | mpakula: yeah sure - audio is fired up on my side |
| 13:54:21 | nikos | cworth: Are you around? |
| 13:55:42 | nikos | Anybody around familiar with the use of fakeroot? |
| 13:58:20 | joyjas | I have all of the familiar files locally on my flash card do I just edit ipkg.conf to show the directory as a src is IPKG_SOURCE="/mnt/hda/familiar/" as this seems to show up as not valid. |
| 13:59:20 | nikos | joyjas: Instead ipkg install <complete path to file>. ipkg tries to use wget and won't be able to access that as a feed. |
| 13:59:43 | nikos | joyjas: But watch out for dependencies, ipkg ignores dependencies when installed local packages. |
| 14:02:57 | joyjas | I guess I might have to invest in a flashcard nic then. |
| 14:04:47 | nikos | joyjas: You can use PPP or usbnet for networking also. |
| 14:04:53 | dneuer | joyjas: the Kingston CF Ethernet card is cheap and works well for me |
| 14:05:11 | nikos | There's a very cheap HawkingTech card that works also. |
| 14:05:30 | nikos | Just about any Ne2k compatible should be OK. |
| 14:09:24 | joyjas | I live in Taiwan surisingly my choice is quite slim, despite so many things being made here. |
| 14:10:55 | nikos | joyjas: Before you buy anything you might run it by the people here or the handhelds.org mailing list. |
| 14:15:37 | joyjas | I've sent some email to a company called abocom www.abocom.com.tw they have 2 products ce10T/CFE100 they said on their website that the CFE100 is supported under linux with a pcmcia adaptor on a notebook. |
| 14:15:53 | joyjas | Yes I don't want to buy something that I can't use |
| 14:16:52 | joyjas | I figured that if it was ne2k compatible it should work but I don't want to be the one to find out it doesn't work |
| 14:17:45 | dneuer_AWAY | joyjas: if it works on a notebook under card services, it should work on the iPAQ |
| 14:25:03 | nikos | cworth: When you get a chance, I find that ipkg-build under fakeroot doesn't work on the skiffcluster. The problem appears to be sed, which never exits. It seems fine on x86 though. If you can help me track down the issue, I would like to get it working on the skiffcluster. |
| 14:26:38 | nikos | cworth: Can PKG_ROOT be used in conffiles? Otherwise, how do we know the complete path to the file? |
| 14:52:36 | mpakula | nikos: I loaded blackbox however it jst does not look as nice as the one from task familiar complete. Do I have to configure it or i just can download it from somewhere ? |
| 14:53:07 | nikos | mpakula: I don't know anything about blackbox, I haven't used it in many months. I use ion. |
| 14:55:14 | michaelw | nikos: tried ratpoison? ;) |
| 14:55:38 | nikos | michaelw: No, I'm lazy. I might try it if there were an ipkg. ;) |
| 14:56:00 | michaelw | nikos: well, there is a .deb :-p |
| 14:56:14 | nikos | michaelw: Did you catch the resolution of my issue yesterday with position independent packaging? |
| 14:57:38 | michaelw | nikos: symlinks for now, union mounts for later? |
| 14:57:55 | nikos | michaelw: Yes, couldn't remember whether you were around then. That's it. |
| 14:58:46 | michaelw | nikos: sounds nice & doable. i would've done it the same way... :) |
| 14:59:05 | nikos | michaelw: I'm glad you agree. ;) cworth is the brains of the group. Heh. |
| 15:01:14 | michaelw | heh ;) |
| 16:01:27 | nikos | is away: Service call |
| 16:23:20 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: do you know who controls what software goes onto the skiff cluster? (when you get back) |
| 16:27:23 | dneuer | CmdrChalupa: I think that's George France, but I could be wrong |
| 16:32:59 | CmdrChalupa | making perl modules for perl-threads can be annoying when it's in an alternate root to be transferred to a true root later |
| 16:51:43 | cworth | nikos: the skiff/ipkg-build problem is strange. Check your sed versions. |
| 16:52:19 | cworth | nikos: PKG_ROOT is exported as an environement variable for postinst scripts. |
| 16:55:46 | nikos | is back |
| 16:56:13 | nikos | cworth: I mean when conffiles is checked. I'll check sed as soon as I can get back into the skiffs. |
| 16:56:34 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: I have root access as well, although I check with Gita and George before I do anything major. |
| 16:58:56 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: it would be quite nice if perl-threads was installed on them |
| 16:59:22 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: OK, I'll look into it and let you know. |
| 16:59:45 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: I just grabbed lunch, give me a little bit. |
| 17:01:19 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: Can you explain to me what benefit having perl-threads on the skiffcluster gives us? |
| 17:02:13 | cworth | nikos: I'm afraid I don't know what your question about PKG_ROOT is then. |
| 17:02:59 | nikos | cworth: Maybe I misunderstand. The configuration files are specified in conffiles with an absolute path. Does ipkg handle converting that to the actual installation location? |
| 17:03:58 | Disconnect | cworth: any progress on those dock bugs? |
| 17:05:24 | cworth | nikos: yes, I think so. Let me know if I missed something. |
| 17:05:44 | cworth | Disconnect: no, haven't looked at them. busy hacking on xstroke. |
| 17:05:52 | nikos | cworth: OK |
| 17:06:03 | Disconnect | cworth: ok np. just a quick poke ;) |
| 17:24:36 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: Perl modules do not like to be built outside of a proper install of perl. If a perl module is to be built with threads (allowing several simultaenous actions to take place), perl threads must be installed. Perl-threads will not harm the existing install of perl without threads, all binaries for the threaded perl are named perl-threads and the libs are placed in their own directory parallel to the unthreaded perl install |
| 17:27:35 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: the toolchain doesn't cut it, because perl-arm won't run on an i386 box |
| 17:27:54 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: and intimate has compatibility problems with familiar |
| 17:29:34 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: So you need it to build perl modules. I get it. So you probably need a -dev package right? |
| 17:30:18 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: I don't think it's a -dev package |
| 17:30:41 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: Give me a minute... Can you test once I install something? |
| 17:30:52 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: Are you on one right now? |
| 17:30:59 | CmdrChalupa | yes |
| 17:31:11 | nikos | which one? |
| 17:32:12 | CmdrChalupa | 3 |
| 17:33:02 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: Any idea of the debian package name? |
| 17:33:42 | CmdrChalupa | one sec |
| 17:34:30 | CmdrChalupa | perl-5.005-thread |
| 17:35:20 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: Umm, looks like we have 5.6.0. No? |
| 17:36:38 | CmdrChalupa | it creates a separate perl binary and perl distro |
| 17:36:57 | CmdrChalupa | there are no flags to perl, just another binary called perl-thread |
| 17:37:14 | CmdrChalupa | and the libraries and modules are self-contained |
| 17:37:38 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: I'm still looking, but having difficulty finding an ARM package... |
| 17:37:41 | CmdrChalupa | so it shouldn't interfere with the perl already installed |
| 17:37:50 | CmdrChalupa | it's in the stable distro |
| 17:40:26 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: OK, slowly but surely. Try it on 3. |
| 17:41:29 | CmdrChalupa | it works |
| 17:41:38 | nikos | Cool, installing on the others now. |
| 17:45:04 | CmdrChalupa | nikos: thanks....y'know, that's what I like about debian...I don't think I've once seen the packages install and conflict with each other |
| 17:45:28 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: We have had problems. But its usually pretty good. |
| 17:46:16 | Kero | looks at his mixed debian, progeny, ximian, galeon installation and nods in agreement |
| 17:46:37 | Kero | some netscape and mozilla/galeon funny thingies, though, |
| 17:47:19 | nikos | ergh |
| 17:48:08 | nikos | reefshark:~# dpkg -i /mirror/Debian/dists/stable/main/binary-arm/interpreters/perl-5.005_5.005.03-7.1.deb |
| 17:48:09 | nikos | dpkg - warning: downgrading perl-5.005 from 6.1 to 5.005.03-7.1. |
| 17:48:09 | nikos | dpkg: regarding .../perl-5.005_5.005.03-7.1.deb containing perl-5.005: |
| 17:48:09 | nikos | perl-base conflicts with data-dumper |
| 17:48:11 | nikos | perl-5.005 provides data-dumper and is to be installed. |
| 17:48:12 | nikos | dpkg: error processing /mirror/Debian/dists/stable/main/binary-arm/interpreters/perl-5.005_5.005.03-7.1.deb (--install): |
| 17:48:12 | nikos | conflicting packages - not installing perl-5.005 |
| 17:48:14 | nikos | Errors were encountered while processing: |
| 17:48:16 | nikos | /mirror/Debian/dists/stable/main/binary-arm/interpreters/perl-5.005_5.005.03-7.1.deb |
| 17:48:20 | nikos | Anybody have any ideas? |
| 17:48:30 | nikos | Is that really a downgrade? |
| 17:50:17 | nikos | Screwed up version numbers. |
| 17:50:41 | nikos | They went from 6.1 to 5.005.03-7.1 |
| 17:50:52 | nikos | I guess I'm going to have to force it. |
| 17:51:54 | sjohnson | nikos: It looks like mixedup version numbers. |
| 17:51:57 | dneuer | nikos: if I recall correctly, the Perl situation is very screwed up in Debian; one of the reasons I stopped using Debian |
| 17:52:55 | dneuer | nikos: because Perl is such a major component in Debian, they have a weird compatability/dependancy situation; lots of packages which depend on a particular version of Perl, etc |
| 17:53:26 | a7r | dneuer: fear what happens if you bust Perl on a Debian installation. :P |
| 17:53:36 | a7r | You might as well turn the machine off and call it a day. |
| 17:53:44 | dneuer | a7r: no sh** |
| 17:53:54 | nikos | Is it a bad idea for me to --force-conflicts? |
| 17:54:03 | nikos | In this case I mean. |
| 17:54:07 | dneuer | nikos: with Perl on Debian, probably |
| 17:54:15 | nikos | *sigh* |
| 17:54:19 | CmdrChalupa | *sigh* |
| 17:54:38 | nikos | sending email to gita and france |
| 17:55:28 | dneuer | nikos, CmdrChalupa: best bet is probably to build it from plain Perl source, taking care to do a user install. There are directions for doing this in the perl build docs somewhere. |
| 17:56:19 | nikos | dneuer: It what? perl-threads? |
| 17:59:16 | CmdrChalupa | ah well |
| 17:59:21 | CmdrChalupa | urg |
| 18:02:56 | dneuer | nikos: Perl, with threads |
| 18:05:03 | CmdrChalupa | dneuer: the only thing is, perl with threads is a different beast than perl without |
| 18:06:09 | dneuer | CmdrChalupa: right. so? |
| 18:06:47 | CmdrChalupa | oh, okay, i gotcha |
| 18:09:52 | dneuer | nikos, Chalupa: I had a similar situation on my old Debian system when I wanted to play around w/ the latest Perl: I did a build from Perl sources into a local (to my user account, but it could have been in any non-standard path) |
| 18:09:57 | dneuer | directory |
| 18:11:02 | CmdrChalupa | I tried compiling it |
| 18:11:27 | dneuer | CmdrChalupa: what happened? |
| 18:15:01 | CmdrChalupa | dneuer: I ran into problems that I do not recall |
| 18:16:15 | nikos | dneuer: I'm used to living on the edge, I compiled and install perl from sources on my debian systems all the time. |
| 18:17:44 | CmdrChalupa | dneuer: I compile it on x86 systems perfectly... |
| 18:18:01 | nikos | CmdrChalupa: same here |
| 18:38:57 | sjohnson | is away: phone call |
| 18:39:25 | nikos | jg: Any news on ALS plans? |
| 18:48:52 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:09:54) |
| 19:20:28 | pattieja | hello |
| 19:20:55 | pattieja | anybody here that can help me get Xfbdev working on my iPAQ? |
| 19:22:16 | pattieja | I downloaded an installed Familiar 0.4 into the iPAQ |
| 19:23:28 | pattieja | however, whenever it boots, it doesn't go into X at all, and when I attempt to run Xfbdev or /etc/init.d/x start from the command line it says something about removing a font path 100dpi or so and then gives me a 'Segmentation fault' |
| 19:27:47 | nikos | pattieja: Ignore the 100dpi error, that is irrelevant. The problem is after that. |
| 19:27:52 | pattieja | right |
| 19:27:55 | pattieja | so? |
| 19:27:59 | pattieja | any ideas? |
| 19:28:04 | pattieja | maybe a corrupted filesystem? |
| 19:28:06 | nikos | pattieja: Can you paste in a log of what happens? |
| 19:28:08 | draven | hmm |
| 19:28:09 | nikos | pattieja: Maybe. |
| 19:28:11 | pattieja | where's a log? |
| 19:28:19 | pattieja | there's nothing in /var/log/messages |
| 19:28:21 | nikos | pattieja: Paste from you serial terminal to here I mean. |
| 19:28:24 | nikos | pattieja: The output. |
| 19:28:25 | pattieja | ahh |
| 19:28:25 | draven | century software's linux gui thingie was pretty cute |
| 19:28:42 | pattieja | one moment |
| 19:28:53 | nikos | pattieja: Do you have net access yet? |
| 19:29:33 | nikos | pattieja: One thing you could do is install bash then do /bin/bash -x /etc/init.d/x to see where the problem occurs. |
| 19:29:53 | pattieja | nope |
| 19:30:11 | pattieja | here's the error output |
| 19:30:14 | pattieja | # /etc/init.d/x start |
| 19:30:14 | pattieja | Starting X... |
| 19:30:14 | pattieja | Could not init font path element /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/, removing from list! |
| 19:30:14 | pattieja | 163: Segmentation fault |
| 19:30:14 | pattieja | XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" |
| 19:30:14 | pattieja | after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. |
| 19:30:16 | pattieja | xrdb: Connection refused |
| 19:30:18 | pattieja | xrdb: Can't open display ':0.0' |
| 19:30:20 | pattieja | xrdb: Connection refused |
| 19:30:22 | pattieja | xrdb: Can't open display ':0.0' |
| 19:30:24 | pattieja | # XIO: fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server ":0.0" |
| 19:30:26 | pattieja | after 0 requests (0 known processed) with 0 events remaining. |
| 19:30:28 | pattieja | Error: Can't open display: :0.0 |
| 19:30:32 | pattieja | notice the third line |
| 19:30:40 | nikos | pattieja: Sounds like something is corrupted. See any jffs2 CRC errors on boot? |
| 19:30:47 | pattieja | yes, actually |
| 19:30:54 | nikos | pattieja: 64MB RAM unit? |
| 19:31:03 | pattieja | I verified the md5sums of each file before downloading them into the flash |
| 19:31:09 | pattieja | yes it's a 64MB RAM unit |
| 19:31:24 | nikos | pattieja: They have a problem. See bottom of http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/ActiveSync |
| 19:31:30 | pattieja | oh |
| 19:31:49 | draven | doom on the ipaq rules =] |
| 19:31:55 | nikos | pattieja: Try to reflash the root image (preferrably the small bootstrap one) with the lcd off and try to keep the ipaq cool. |
| 19:32:07 | pattieja | huh? |
| 19:32:18 | pattieja | should I stick it in the freezer? :) |
| 19:32:29 | nikos | pattieja: Maybe in the fridge. ;) |
| 19:32:32 | pattieja | how does one keep the lcd off? |
| 19:32:38 | sjohnson | lcdoff |
| 19:32:40 | nikos | lcdoff at boot> prompt. |
| 19:33:02 | pattieja | oh, at the boot> prompt |
| 19:33:06 | pattieja | it's not in the filesystem |
| 19:33:24 | nikos | pattieja: The point is to have it off while you are flashing, which occurs while you are at the bootloader prompt. |
| 19:33:34 | pattieja | ok.. |
| 19:33:44 | pattieja | let me read that page, one moment... |
| 19:33:58 | draven | Has anyone here tried the recent ipkg's for pocketlinux? |
| 19:34:20 | sjohnson | ponders the battery recharging battery, |
| 19:34:29 | nikos | pattieja: xset s off in linux will also do the job. |
| 19:34:58 | pattieja | but X isn't running |
| 19:35:15 | nikos | pattieja: I'm not sure that is necessary. Then again... |
| 19:35:44 | sjohnson | nikos: Don't forget about jamey and flash write error... |
| 19:36:05 | nikos | sjohnson: Master_oD? I've already talked to jamey, he's waiting for him to come back. |
| 19:36:18 | nikos | sjohnson: Which I hope he does soon. |
| 19:36:31 | sjohnson | nikos: Oh, OK. |
| 19:36:52 | sjohnson | I know how easy it is to get side tracked and forget things. |
| 19:37:01 | nikos | Absolutely, thanks for the reminder. |
| 19:37:25 | pattieja | nikos: it says it can't connect to :0.0 when I run the xset command |
| 19:37:36 | nikos | sjohnson: Prod me whenever you need a final answer on the ALS thing, I'm enclined to wait a little while on work from JG on the plan. |
| 19:37:48 | nikos | pattieja: You are right then, my mistake. |
| 19:38:49 | nikos | pattieja: bl 1 0 0 will turn the frontlight off at least. |
| 19:38:50 | pattieja | the document says to wait 10 minutes then disable the lcd backlight then try to download the files. It also seems to say that you will still have a JFFS2 corruption no matter what. Is that correct? |
| 19:39:24 | nikos | pattieja: Not necessarily. Also, despite what it says, turn the backlight off as soon as you get into the bootloader. |
| 19:39:33 | pattieja | ok |
| 19:39:36 | nikos | pattieja: That page simply recounts the experience of a couple of users. |
| 19:39:42 | pattieja | oh |
| 19:39:49 | nikos | pattieja: Others have had less trouble. Keeping the ipaq cooler seems to help. |
| 19:40:02 | pattieja | I'll attempt it. Do you think the fridge is a bad idea? (seriously) |
| 19:40:12 | pattieja | condensation, etc.? |
| 19:40:25 | pattieja | or do you think it would affect it at all? |
| 19:40:49 | nikos | pattieja: The fridge might be a bad idea. Have a fan? or air conditioner outflow? |
| 19:40:56 | pattieja | nope |
| 19:41:20 | nikos | pattieja: Maybe put it in a plastic bag then in the fridge? ;) |
| 19:41:26 | pattieja | ok |
| 19:41:28 | pattieja | that works |
| 19:42:50 | pattieja | thank you for your help, nikos |
| 19:43:03 | nikos | pattieja: You are welcome. |
| 19:48:05 | pattieja | I decided against the fridge, since it's too much hassle, but I may have to resort to that if it doesn't work this time |
| 19:48:50 | nikos | pattieja: Just do your best. |
| 19:48:57 | pattieja | I have a case that has multiple fans on it. The case exhaust seems cooler than the ambient temperature of the air, so I took the sleeve off the iPAQ and am letting the exhaust blow over the bare metal casing of the iPAQ (is it metal?) |
| 19:49:20 | nikos | pattieja: I think the front is metal. |
| 19:50:41 | pattieja | is it possible to use minicom to do the xmodem transfer of the images now that I actually have the bootloader 2.14.8 installed? |
| 19:51:15 | nikos | pattieja: I don't understand. What did you use if not minicom? |
| 19:52:43 | pattieja | ActiveSync and hyperterminal |
| 19:53:22 | nikos | pattieja: minicom works, but you need to have lrzsz installed. |
| 19:53:45 | pattieja | what's that? |
| 19:54:37 | nikos | pattieja: Real xmodem/ymodem/xmodem implementation. minicom's is not too good. |
| 19:54:50 | nikos | pattieja: may be called rzsz, depending on your distribution. |
| 19:55:36 | pattieja | hmm |
| 19:55:59 | pattieja | is that on the standard RH 7.x CD's or will I have to download it from somewhere? |
| 19:56:01 | nikos | pattieja: minicom will use lrzsz over its own if it is installed. Do sx --version from the command line. |
| 19:56:24 | pattieja | sx isn't installed |
| 19:56:42 | pattieja | bash: sx: command not found |
| 19:56:43 | nikos | pattieja: I think you should have lrzsz on the CDs. |
| 19:57:01 | pattieja | any hint as to the package/rpm name? |
| 19:57:44 | nikos | pattieja: Should be lrzsz |
| 19:57:52 | pattieja | ok. I'll check |
| 19:58:57 | pattieja | cool |
| 19:59:00 | pattieja | installing now... |
| 19:59:20 | pattieja | done |
| 20:00:55 | pattieja | should I use zmodem or xmodem when downloading to the iPAQ? |
| 20:01:58 | sjohnson | pattieja: From bootldr, you have to use xmodem. |
| 20:02:22 | pattieja | will minicom use the lrzsz package stuff to do that? |
| 20:02:41 | sjohnson | pattieja: Yes. |
| 20:02:45 | pattieja | cool |
| 20:02:50 | pattieja | will attempt to flash... |
| 20:03:05 | sjohnson | pattieja: minicom's built-in xmodem sucks. |
| 20:03:17 | pattieja | I gathered that |
| 20:04:20 | pattieja | oh. I just looked in minicom's File Protocol setup dialog. It already has /usr/bin/rz, etc. in place. So the lrzsz package just overwrote what was already there I guess. |
| 20:05:37 | sjohnson | pattieja: I think minicom will use lrzsz when it finds it. |
| 20:15:34 | Xx25 | anyone know where the current releases of Familiar Kernel source are kept? Preferably in a tar ball. |
| 20:16:25 | nikos | Xx25: http://handhelds.org/sources.html |
| 20:16:35 | nikos | Xx25: On CVS only. |
| 20:16:38 | Xx25 | d0h |
| 20:16:39 | Xx25 | ok |
| 20:16:53 | Xx25 | guess I will HAVE to learn how to pull CVS |
| 20:16:57 | Xx25 | thanks |
| 20:17:28 | nikos | Instructions on that page. |
| 20:17:36 | Xx25 | kewl |
| 20:19:22 | pattieja | minicom is so much faster than hyperterminal |
| 20:20:22 | pattieja | I was getting like 4500 bytes/sec. with hyperterminal which is only around 36000 bits/second |
| 20:20:34 | pattieja | and the connection was supposed to be 115200 bit/second? |
| 20:23:02 | pattieja | is there any way to use the 4Mbit transfer rate of the IrDA system yet? |
| 20:23:10 | pattieja | that would rock |
| 20:23:31 | nikos | pattieja: Better yet, 10Mbit + over usbnet. |
| 20:23:33 | | it has been said that usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking |
| 20:23:33 | nikos | ibot: usbnet |
| 20:24:07 | pattieja | cool |
| 20:24:21 | pattieja | but, isn't USB limited to like 2Mbit anyway? |
| 20:24:31 | nikos | I don't believe so. |
| 20:24:39 | pattieja | or does the iPAQ have the new USB interface? |
| 20:24:48 | nikos | I'm not sure. |
| 20:25:00 | pattieja | I think the first release of USB had an upper bandwidth of 2Mb/s |
| 20:25:34 | pattieja | the new one's supposed to have something like 12 or it might be more. |
| 20:26:34 | pattieja | Sort of like a 10/100Mbit ISA network card can technically only give you around 20Mbit/s even though it connects to the equipment and negotiates a 100Mb link. |
| 20:26:40 | nikos | That sounds right, I've been told 12. |
| 20:29:23 | CmdrChalupa | *sigh* getting gtk-perl-thread, perl-thread, gtk, and a few other things into 15MB is a pain |
| 20:29:44 | Xx25 | w0w, CVS is pretty nifty |
| 20:30:21 | Xx25 | now I won't have to be such a tarball baby |
| 20:30:46 | CmdrChalupa | night all |
| 20:30:58 | Xx25 | night |
| 20:33:40 | nikos | sjohnson: I finally released xjed http://handhelds.org/~nikos/feed/xjed_0.99.14_arm.ipk |
| 20:34:33 | sjohnson | Hmmm. 400K for an editor? I don't know... |
| 20:36:11 | xs | better than emacs, 21megs for an editor |
| 20:36:27 | pattieja | has anyone looked into using BusyBox for the Familiar distribution? or does it use it already? (busybox.lineo.com) |
| 20:36:48 | pattieja | BusyBox comes with an implementation of vi that's around 22KB, I think. |
| 20:37:24 | nikos | sjohnson: It's not for everyone. It could probably use some trimming. But it is very powerful for that 400KB. |
| 20:41:20 | pattieja | busybox anyone? |
| 20:41:58 | michaelw | nikos: grab e3 (editor that emulates emacs, vi, pico, nedit,...) ~9k exe (no libs) for x86, a bit bigger for other arches :) |
| 20:42:46 | nikos | michaelw: xJed is an X mode editor with AA fonts. I like it and don't feel like looking around anymore right now. Thanks. |
| 20:43:39 | michaelw | [380]% echo $EDITOR |
| 20:43:39 | michaelw | jed |
| 20:43:45 | michaelw | (i know :)) |
| 20:48:26 | peter_neubauer | hello, anyone here having problems with ssh-connections linux-familiar? |
| 20:48:40 | pattieja | yeah |
| 20:48:55 | pattieja | but that may be do to the fact that part of my filesystem is corrupted :) |
| 20:49:03 | pattieja | reflashing at the moment |
| 20:49:13 | nikos | peter_neubauer: Make sure sshd is running, make sure you have ssh keys |
| 20:49:15 | | sshkeys is ssh-keygen -b 512 -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_key -N ''; ssh-keygen -d -b 512 -f /etc/ssh/ssh_host_dsa_key -N '' |
| 20:49:15 | nikos | ibot: sshkeys |
| 20:49:26 | pattieja | hmm. |
| 20:49:34 | pattieja | i didn't have the ssh-keygen utility |
| 20:49:40 | pattieja | that's the first thing I looked for |
| 20:50:35 | peter_neubauer | ok, will try your ssh-keygen stuff. Tried with some others keygen commands, but I get the rekey- error on connecting from the desktop |
| 20:50:42 | pattieja | nikos: do you have to do that every time you boot the iPAQ? |
| 20:50:52 | nikos | pattieja: No. |
| 20:50:58 | nikos | pattieja: Not having that is not a good sign. |
| 20:51:03 | nikos | pattieja: Oh wait.... |
| 20:51:10 | nikos | pattieja: You haven't finished the directions. |
| 20:51:38 | pattieja | what directions are those? |
| 20:51:38 | nikos | pattieja: Do the stuff under "Boot the Installlation for the First Time" |
| 20:51:46 | nikos | pattieja: http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/releases/v0.4/install/H3600/install.html |
| 20:52:02 | pattieja | i.e., ipkg install_pending? |
| 20:52:05 | pattieja | did that |
| 20:52:19 | pattieja | had to remove the pending directory entries, too |
| 20:52:46 | nikos | but no ssh-keygen? |
| 20:52:49 | pattieja | nope |
| 20:53:01 | nikos | odd. |
| 20:53:02 | pattieja | might be because of jffs2 corruption? |
| 20:53:09 | nikos | pattieja: Possibly. |
| 20:53:16 | pattieja | I think it's almost finished |
| 20:54:18 | pattieja | aggh. I think it hung while writing to the flash. |
| 20:55:01 | pattieja | addr 00630000 |
| 20:55:05 | pattieja | stopped there |
| 20:55:20 | | peter_neubauer: bitte |
| 20:55:20 | peter_neubauer | ibot: thanks for the hint, will go and try this out now. |
| 20:55:34 | peter_neubauer | danke! |
| 20:56:22 | nikos | pattieja: Well, as long as it wasn't the bootloader, at the worst, you just do it again. |
| 20:56:26 | pattieja | I hit enter and it spat me back to the boot> prompt telling me 'unrecognized command' |
| 20:56:33 | pattieja | hmm |
| 20:56:35 | pattieja | ok |
| 20:56:52 | pattieja | what does that mean that happened? |
| 20:57:19 | nikos | I'm not sure. What were you flashing? |
| 20:57:24 | pattieja | did it lockup downloading the file or something? Did I need to press enter after the file transfer was complete, like immediately or something? |
| 20:57:37 | pattieja | the task-familiar-complete.jffs2 image |
| 20:58:06 | nikos | pattieja: I REALLY don't recommend doing that one. |
| 20:58:13 | pattieja | why not? |
| 20:58:19 | nikos | pattieja: You will not ever be likely to be able to do that one succesfully. |
| 20:58:21 | pattieja | It said it was for first timers, right? |
| 20:58:24 | nikos | pattieja: it is too big. |
| 20:58:27 | pattieja | oh |
| 20:58:33 | pattieja | but I've got a 16MB flash |
| 20:58:35 | nikos | pattieja: It will always cause you to overheat. |
| 20:58:41 | nikos | pattieja: Its not that you don't ahve the sapce. |
| 20:58:43 | nikos | err space |
| 20:58:44 | pattieja | and it's only 11 MB |
| 20:58:45 | pattieja | oh |
| 20:58:50 | pattieja | ahhh |
| 20:58:50 | nikos | pattieja: It just takes so long. |
| 20:58:55 | pattieja | into the freezer it goes :) |
| 20:59:05 | pattieja | hehe |
| 20:59:11 | nikos | :) |
| 20:59:19 | pattieja | someone else suggested to put it underwater |
| 20:59:34 | pattieja | it does have a mostly metal case with a plastic back |
| 20:59:47 | pattieja | what's a little dunking going to hurt? :) |
| 20:59:58 | sjohnson | Or maybe in carbon tet. like the Cray 2 CPU is. |
| 21:00:09 | pattieja | that's actually rather annoying |
| 21:00:14 | pattieja | the thing overheats? |
| 21:00:45 | pattieja | hmm. well, I gotta go |
| 21:00:58 | nikos | pattieja: We still aren't sure. That's the theory. It only seems to be a problem when large flashing is occurring. |
| 21:01:11 | pattieja | thank you very much for your assistance. I'll be back on tomorrow to let you know how frigidaire works |
| 21:01:26 | pattieja | :) |
| 21:01:36 | nikos | Bye pattieja |
| 23:01:40 | cmatheson | hey |
| 23:01:59 | cmatheson | i just got my ipaq, and i want to put familiar on it *so* badly, but I only have a USB cable. |
| 23:02:15 | cmatheson | should i shell out the cash for a serial, or will USB be supported soon? |
| 23:03:05 | Disconnect | cmatheson: usb isnt going to ever work in bootldr |
| 23:03:16 | Disconnect | after that it wo |
| 23:03:25 | Disconnect | rcs fine |
| 23:03:57 | Disconnect | btw am on the ipaq now so typing is slow and punctuation is hard ;] |
| 23:06:10 | cmatheson | digdude: ok |
| 23:06:22 | cmatheson | Disconnect: but can i install it w/out a serial cable? |
| 23:07:10 | Disconnect | cmatheson: nope - get serial... |
| 23:07:37 | cmatheson | Disconnect: dang, i don't want to wait :(. oh well, do you know how much $$ those are? |
| 23:07:58 | Disconnect | cmatheson - hit #handhelds.org |
| 23:08:10 | cmatheson | Disconnect: thanks |