| 00:13:28 | fad | anyone know if the intel pro/wireless 2011 lan pc card is supported? |
| 00:18:33 | Morn | Argh! I spent all day looking for a serial cradle for the iPAQ and couldn't find one, this is NYC for gods sake |
| 00:22:26 | fad | lol |
| 00:22:29 | fad | err sorry |
| 00:22:33 | fad | i shouldnt laugh |
| 00:22:56 | fad | hehe, im tryna imagine what a mugger would do with an ipaq running linux after stealing it |
| 00:23:15 | fad | particularly if it just had a console and an OSK at boot |
| 00:23:51 | Morn | And I walk around with both the iPAQ and my Visor Prism in my purse, god forbid I ever get mugged |
| 00:31:39 | fad | heh |
| 00:31:45 | fad | nah, they could sell the cisor |
| 00:31:47 | fad | visor |
| 00:32:07 | Morn | I tried compiling uClinux for the palm but never got far |
| 00:32:18 | fad | wow cool |
| 00:32:25 | fad | you can get linux on the palm? |
| 00:32:43 | fad | heh, i live in london and have all these precoceptions about muggers |
| 00:33:01 | fad | and i was sitting on the train, some guy sits opposite me and im like h my god im gonna get beaten up |
| 00:33:06 | Morn | I think it is possible, but not easy... plus the Visor uses a normal rom not flash rom |
| 00:33:08 | fad | he reaches into his pocket |
| 00:33:11 | fad | and pulls out |
| 00:33:17 | fad | a red hat linux manual! |
| 00:33:21 | Morn | giggle |
| 00:33:24 | fad | :) i was so releaved! |
| 00:34:06 | Morn | well I grew up in a small farming community, so the ove to the big city was a shocker |
| 00:34:21 | fad | heh |
| 00:36:07 | fad | i was born a londoner |
| 00:39:58 | Morn | sorry about that fad, my terminal locked up |
| 00:40:10 | fad | thats ok |
| 00:40:26 | fad | heh, i was about to say being born a londoner doesnt necesarily make you able to survive the big city |
| 00:40:50 | fad | i was out with a group of friends, and we got split up on the tube |
| 00:40:54 | Morn | well the town I grew up in had less than 1200 people |
| 00:41:04 | fad | so 2 of them were together and the rest of us apart |
| 00:41:23 | fad | the two didnt know each other well but both were brough up in london. one was sane, the other naive. |
| 00:41:41 | fad | she saw some people on the train playing loud reggage music and selling something. |
| 00:41:50 | fad | she asked my other friend, in a very loud voice: |
| 00:41:59 | fad | "are they dealing drugs?" |
| 00:42:09 | fad | needless to say something terrible almsot happened |
| 00:42:16 | Morn | oh my, not a smart move |
| 00:42:27 | fad | nope, and she was born in london |
| 00:42:35 | fad | fortunatly they were both ok |
| 00:43:11 | Morn | I was in London for 3 days in 1986 |
| 00:43:42 | fad | :) i would have been a year old |
| 00:43:56 | Morn | Now *I* feel old |
| 00:44:00 | fad | london is safer than NYC IMHO |
| 00:44:04 | fad | sorry, morn |
| 00:44:08 | fad | you cant be old |
| 00:44:17 | fad | you are using linux on a pda ffs |
| 00:44:26 | Morn | My birthday is the 28th of this month... |
| 00:44:51 | fad | cool |
| 00:44:55 | fad | happy birthday |
| 00:45:22 | Morn | thanks... I want to go to an amusment park near where I grew up for my birthday |
| 00:45:40 | fad | :) cool |
| 00:46:31 | Morn | now if only I could get linux on my iPAQ, I bought the iPAQ just for this reason |
| 00:46:58 | a7r | Morn: What's stopping you, the cable? |
| 00:47:02 | Morn | yes |
| 00:47:13 | fad | lack of cable? |
| 00:47:17 | a7r | Did you see the HowTo on building your own using a USB cradle? |
| 00:47:27 | fad | OMG a7r, its, its alive |
| 00:47:36 | fad | familiar .5 - when?? |
| 00:47:38 | Morn | I bought a serial cable today, but I'm not comforable taking apart the USB cradle, plus I don't have a soldering iron |
| 00:48:19 | fad | :( a7r is gone again damnit |
| 00:49:10 | a7r | fad: sorry.. I just had two strange young women walk up to my door. |
| 00:49:31 | fad | hmm, that sounds fun :) |
| 00:49:40 | fad | where they tryna convert you to something? |
| 00:50:11 | ellen | evening all.. |
| 00:50:38 | ellen | quick question... what do you use to debug python (pygtk - gui) type apps, such as mingle? |
| 00:50:38 | Morn | Cool another girl, I was begining to think I was the only one |
| 00:50:44 | ellen | haha |
| 00:51:52 | a7r | fad: nah.. random hot women always come over to my house,.. never sure why., ;) |
| 00:52:35 | ellen | i'll resist a response ... ;-) |
| 00:52:48 | a7r | yeah, fear my operator bit. ;) |
| 00:53:09 | ellen | a7r: favorite debug tool for pygtk stuff? |
| 00:53:25 | a7r | ellen: are you going to actually be debugging pygtk? |
| 00:53:30 | a7r | or just Python code in general? |
| 00:53:44 | ellen | a7r: have a gui... mingle=like |
| 00:54:50 | fad | a7r: familiar .5 - when??! |
| 00:54:54 | a7r | fad: soon. |
| 00:55:07 | fad | :) a couple of days soon? |
| 00:55:16 | fad | needs fam .5 soon as hes about to go insane |
| 00:55:24 | fad | they are taking my robot cat away tommorow :( |
| 00:55:28 | fad | sending it to a vet in france |
| 00:55:29 | a7r | We're late, I know.. I'm going to figure out what the hell is going on tomorrow, during the concall. |
| 00:55:52 | fad | and my phone reflash cable isnt arriving till day after tommorw |
| 00:55:54 | Morn | a7r: I hate to bother you, but yes I have looked at the howto, but I'm stil a little confused about how to do it |
| 00:55:55 | a7r | ellen: Your best bet is the internal non-GUI debugger, and the PyGtk source. :( |
| 00:56:11 | fad | ooo, nokias use arm processors! |
| 00:56:27 | ellen | a7r: yuck.. thanks |
| 00:56:28 | fad | forket tuxscreen, think nokia linux! |
| 00:56:53 | a7r | ellen: it's tough.. there's not a lot available as far as quick and easy development environments, although Python does have some good stuff available. |
| 00:57:01 | a7r | Morn: what didn't you understand about them? |
| 00:57:48 | ellen | a7r: yes... i'm struggling.. |
| 00:58:13 | Morn | I guess I would have just liked to have seen a picture or two of the process... Plus I don't have a soldering iron any more (haven't used one in over 10 years) |
| 00:59:36 | a7r | Morn: Ah, nod.. |
| 00:59:43 | a7r | there are pictures around, not sure about a URL.. |
| 01:00:40 | Morn | I was saying earlier I looked all over New York City for a serial cradle and came up blank, as a matter of fact, I couldn't find ANY iPAQ accessories... lots of Palm and Visor stuff though |
| 01:20:54 | fad | Morn, order them online? |
| 01:21:00 | fad | thats what i do anyway, works out cheaper |
| 01:21:17 | fad | saves rushing around looking for them |
| 01:21:25 | fad | and i dont even have to leave my computer! |
| 01:21:34 | Morn | I'm trying to find out where to order the stuff, but the compaq site is next to useless |
| 01:43:51 | nelson | Morn: radio shaft sells a $8 soldering iron. |
| 01:44:29 | Morn | But, do they sell the skills to use it? I used to be an electronics tech (USNavy) but that was a long time ago |
| 01:44:54 | nelson | Morn: Hehe. Do you remember which end of the soldering iron to hold? |
| 01:45:04 | Morn | I think so... |
| 01:45:47 | nelson | Then you should have no trouble soldering to CON2. Small chance of a solder bridge there. |
| 01:46:12 | Morn | how hard is the cradle to take apart in the first place? |
| 01:46:14 | nelson | And you only really need to solder three connections: GND, TX, and RX. |
| 01:46:34 | nelson | Ooohhhhh! Okay, you've hit the hard question. You need a torx T-6. |
| 01:47:04 | Morn | do they sell that at radio shack too? |
| 01:47:17 | nelson | Sears sells one, I'm told. I had to spend $16 at my local hardware store on a set of *three* torx screwdrivers. |
| 01:47:32 | nelson | No, radio shack doesn't have a T6. T8 yes, T6 no. |
| 01:48:31 | nelson | I'm gonna call Compaq tomorrow and find out what it takes to be an iPAQ reseller. I figure I can sell Linux iPAQs for a premium over list price. |
| 01:48:48 | Morn | well, I bought a spare serial cable today, so I guess I'll get the soldering iron and the T6 |
| 01:49:06 | nelson | And while I'm at it, I'll convert USB cradles into USB/serial cradles. More value-add == more profit. |
| 01:49:25 | nelson | Morn: I cannibalized an old mouse. |
| 01:49:59 | Morn | the stupid serial cable cost me $15! |
| 01:50:08 | nelson | cable conspiracy. |
| 01:51:09 | Morn | have you seen there is a company that will install 128Meg of internal ram in the iPAQ? |
| 01:51:15 | Morn | but it is rather pricey |
| 01:52:54 | nelson | Yep, it's expensive. They'll also put 32M of flash, which is IMHO more valuable than ram. |
| 01:53:17 | nelson | There's no ramfsck, so you lose everything in the ramfs on reboot. |
| 01:53:44 | Morn | is it true that you can only flash a flash rom about 1000 times? |
| 01:54:21 | nelson | Nahhhh, it's 100K times, and the flash filesystem rotates through all the blocks, so no one block gets abused. |
| 01:54:45 | Morn | ok, I thought I had read that someplace |
| 01:55:09 | nelson | You'll drop your iPAQ long before you wear out your flash. :-) :-( |
| 01:55:43 | Morn | I had my PalmPilot Pro for a long time before the screen died |
| 01:56:10 | a7r | Hah.. I killed my first Palm by sitting on it during a paintball match. |
| 01:56:18 | Morn | oh no |
| 01:56:47 | Morn | I had bought a Visor Prism before the PalmPilot Pro died... and I just recently got the iPAQ |
| 01:57:44 | DragonEagle | is back |
| 01:59:45 | Morn | If I ever get this working I may be able to contribute to the project, I'm a competent programmer |
| 02:12:34 | Morn | falls asleep at her keyboard (again). |
| 02:15:35 | nelson | a7r: so, what about the bleeding feed? |
| 02:16:44 | a7r | nelson: I was wondering why it still exists,.. |
| 02:17:33 | Morn | a7r: are you folks interested in a high speed mirror of the site? |
| 02:18:04 | a7r | Morn; sure, where is your server located? |
| 02:18:40 | a7r | nelson: Re: I'd rather see a unified unstable, than an unstable and a bleeding. |
| 02:19:01 | Morn | a7r: the server is in California, I'm in New York |
| 02:19:43 | a7r | Morn; great.. all you need to do is run rsync.. I'll add you to the list of mirrors. |
| 02:20:04 | nelson | a7r: me too, but I need to test it to make sure that someone can start from 0.4 and go straight into bleeding. Or do you want to make the transition part of the 0.5 release? |
| 02:20:55 | a7r | nelson: v0.5 is going to be a checkpoint into unstable.. I'd like to get bleeding merged into unstable, at which point I can test things (i.e. upgrading from v0.4), and move whatever I need into the stable tree. |
| 02:20:58 | Morn | a7r: I'll set up DNS for familiar.MageNet.com and set the server up... |
| 02:21:06 | a7r | Morn: great. |
| 02:21:57 | nelson | a7r: okay, but can ipkg deal with: Generating index for package ./unstable/xbase-clients_4.1-3_arm.ipk |
| 02:21:57 | nelson | Generating index for package ./unstable/xbase-clients_4.1-4_arm.ipk |
| 02:22:11 | a7r | nope.. that has to be resolved. |
| 02:22:45 | nelson | Should I coordinate with cworth, or should I trim multiple versions of the same package? |
| 02:23:01 | a7r | You should coordinate with me, and yeah, you can remove the old package. |
| 02:23:02 | nelson | cworth seems to be leaving ipkg alone for the moment, so I vote for the latter. |
| 02:23:07 | nelson | k |
| 02:23:30 | a7r | I need to get v0.5 out the door, so I can work on my paper for ALS/XFree86. |
| 02:23:39 | nelson | Hehe. |
| 02:23:48 | a7r | you gonna be there? |
| 02:23:49 | nelson | is off to work on it now. |
| 02:24:07 | nelson | a7r: unfortunately, not. Too much other travel. |
| 02:24:13 | a7r | nelson: ahh, that sucks. |
| 02:24:42 | nelson | Yeah, oh well. |
| 02:24:46 | a7r | nod. |
| 02:25:05 | Morn | what is ALS/XFree86? |
| 02:25:38 | a7r | Morn: an upcoming conference in Oakland. |
| 02:26:12 | Morn | ah, a little too far for me to go |
| 02:28:39 | a7r | waits for global DNS to update. |
| 02:31:02 | Morn | a74: can I ask a stupid question? |
| 02:31:14 | a7r | shoot. |
| 02:31:32 | Morn | what rsync command should I use to get the site? I'm not really familiar with rsync |
| 02:31:40 | Bub | can i get the suspend button to envoke the screen saver, and will this use a lot more of the battery? |
| 02:33:13 | a7r | Morn: rsync -avz rsync://h0.handhelds.org/familiar-ftp familiar |
| 02:33:29 | a7r | That would create a directory in the current dir with the entire contents of the familiar FTP site. |
| 02:33:38 | nelson | frig: |
| 02:33:41 | nelson | os.mkdir(self.scratch_dir) |
| 02:33:41 | nelson | OSError: [Errno 17] File exists: '/usr/tmp/@20658.ipkg' |
| 02:33:49 | a7r | nelson: hah, suck. |
| 02:34:03 | nelson | tell me about it. It's your code. |
| 02:34:12 | nelson | I'll fix it, though. |
| 02:34:13 | a7r | yup, I'd recognize that shit anywhere. |
| 02:34:30 | a7r | nelson: how is that not working? That tempdir shouldn't be reused. |
| 02:34:50 | nelson | I think the object isn't getting destroyed fast enough. |
| 02:35:01 | Morn | ok, it is syncing now |
| 02:35:15 | a7r | did you see the comment down at the bottom? That whole destruction thing is hosed, not sure why. |
| 02:35:25 | a7r | but it still shouldn't reuse the same scratch_dir.. |
| 02:47:53 | nelson | self.scratch_dir = tempfile.mktemp("ipak") |
| 02:47:59 | nelson | Yeah, it's that easy. |
| 02:49:15 | mindrape | is there any reason to use 2.4.6 kernel? |
| 03:24:28 | nelson | a7r: bleeding has a leetle bit of a problem. |
| 03:24:49 | nelson | Some version numbers which are obviously meant to be newer compare lexically smaller. |
| 03:25:10 | nelson | We need to bash some package maintainers over the head. |
| 03:25:12 | mindrape | wow 2.4.6 boots faster |
| 03:27:01 | nelson | Already have pylau_0.2, don't need 0.2-2 |
| 03:27:01 | nelson | Already have pylau_0.2, don't need 0.2-1 |
| 03:27:21 | nelson | a7r: see? Anyway, I'm headed to bed now. |
| 03:56:41 | BZFlag | anyone run familiar on an ipaq before? |
| 03:56:48 | BZFlag | eepp... |
| 03:57:06 | BZFlag | on a yopy before? ( /me has too many handhelds... ) |
| 03:58:07 | mindrape | BZFlag: time for a beowolf cluster! |
| 04:06:22 | DragonEagle_dennys | is away: coffeeeeee |
| 04:08:02 | mindrape | hmnm |
| 04:08:12 | mindrape | i think compaq broke my unit when they sent it back |
| 04:08:41 | BZFlag | mindrape: heh, it's been suggested I should do that with the 1200 TuxScreens I have. http://TuxScreen.net/ |
| 04:08:41 | mindrape | i put familiar full setup and suspend still doesn't work |
| 04:11:27 | mindrape | dude |
| 04:11:31 | mindrape | that looks fucking kewl |
| 04:12:39 | BZFlag | they are about $350 worth of hardware. Familiar runs on them over NFS mount or CF card. only $99 usd ;-) |
| 04:13:47 | BZFlag | Pickup a CF Ethernet card for like $25 and you've got a hackers phone. ;-) |
| 04:15:24 | mindrape | do you make them? |
| 04:15:37 | mindrape | what is the screen resolution |
| 04:15:55 | mindrape | my company maybe interested in this |
| 04:19:41 | a7r | BZFlag: You've got Linux up? |
| 04:22:16 | mindrape | dude this is a sweet fone! |
| 04:22:22 | mindrape | voice over ip!@#$ |
| 04:22:39 | Morn | BZFlag: Can the phone support 2 lines? |
| 04:25:05 | mindrape | i know with some shading i can probably simluate 24 decently at that resolution |
| 04:25:28 | mindrape | or is that 8 bit, not 8 color |
| 04:26:00 | BZFlag | Morn: not that I know of. Just one line. |
| 04:26:44 | Morn | Ok, how do I go about ordering one of these? I see you accept PayPal |
| 04:27:36 | BZFlag | 8 bit. 256 color. |
| 04:28:02 | BZFlag | yes PayPal. http://TuxScreen.net/wiki/view/Users/TimRiker |
| 04:28:36 | BZFlag | $99 a piece. where did you get the $350 number from? |
| 04:29:19 | mindrape | <BZFlag> they are about $350 worth of hardware. Familiar runs on them over NFS mount or CF card. only $99 usd ;-) |
| 04:29:40 | mindrape | 99 dollars |
| 04:29:53 | mindrape | now do you make these or did you buy them from someone else, i'm confused?!? |
| 04:29:59 | BZFlag | These were made by Philips in 1998 and I got a shipment of the discontinued products which I am selling at below the original manufact cost, cause I got em for cheap enough. |
| 04:30:46 | BZFlag | ah. the parts would cost about $350 to purchase. I'm selling them for $99 |
| 04:31:20 | BZFlag | $99 is fully functional, with Inferno install, no warantee. |
| 04:31:51 | BZFlag | a7r: yes. Linux is up. pcmcia, ts, ir keyboard all work. |
| 04:32:06 | BZFlag | a7r: I've even run familiar on mine over NFS. |
| 04:32:28 | BZFlag | Got debian arm on it now running on a udrive. |
| 04:32:34 | mindrape | you do this nfs mount thru? |
| 04:32:58 | BZFlag | I have a "Socket" low power CF Ethernet card in mine. |
| 04:33:30 | mindrape | ah pcmcia card |
| 04:33:30 | BZFlag | Though I ordered a Kingston CIO10T for $14 from eBay and I expect that will work. |
| 04:33:52 | mindrape | now voip works? |
| 04:34:05 | BZFlag | all CF cards support 3.3v and the phone does NOT handle 5v cards. |
| 04:34:22 | BZFlag | voip does NOT work either under Inferno or Linux. (yet) |
| 04:35:24 | mindrape | heh compile apache for it, have the ability to configure it remotely |
| 04:35:29 | mindrape | view logs, etc |
| 04:36:43 | BZFlag | I've got sshd running on mine. |
| 04:37:08 | BZFlag | a7r: when are you picking one up? ;-) |
| 04:38:31 | a7r | BZFlag: I'll take 2. |
| 04:39:09 | BZFlag | a7r: paypal away. ;-) http://TuxScreen.net/wiki/view/Users/TimRiker |
| 04:41:32 | Morn | a7r: the mirror is up ftp://ftp.magenet.com/pub/familiar and http://familiar.magenet.com I added a cron job to rsync regularly |
| 04:41:32 | a7r | can I get an order of fries with that? |
| 04:41:45 | a7r | Morn: Awesome, thanks. |
| 04:42:49 | BZFlag | a7r: if you want, but they might be stinky when they arrive. ;-) |
| 04:43:37 | a7r | BZFlag: do the phones count as shrubs or trees during shipment? |
| 04:44:35 | a7r | looks like that's going to be 212.74 USD for a 2-pack to 93101. |
| 04:46:40 | BZFlag | a7r: I tried to convince them they were shrubs, but they did not believe me. |
| 04:47:05 | BZFlag | a7r: did you include insurance? and did you want to? ;-) |
| 04:47:42 | a7r | bah.. 215.74 USD.. you trying to force me out of house and home? |
| 04:48:44 | BZFlag | heh, it's completely up to you. skip it if you like. |
| 04:50:10 | a7r | nah.. they're for my little brother.. I'd be pissed if they showed up broken. |
| 04:56:42 | a7r | BZFlag: OKay, the money, and shipment info are away. |
| 04:56:52 | a7r | if you're going to send me bricks, I'd prefer they be red, and somewhat clean. |
| 05:00:28 | Morn | BZFlag: I sent you the money via PayPal (note: use the NYC address not the Brentwood one, I moved) |
| 05:29:05 | Morn | falls down and goes to bed... All the world was built by dreamers. |
| 07:40:07 | SleepingDragon | is away: good night all |
| 08:21:06 | phr | anyone here? |
| 08:21:28 | phr | i have a dumb question about familiar |
| 10:11:57 | geers | anyone here? |
| 10:41:03 | munehiro | hi all |
| 10:41:18 | munehiro | i get segmentation fault with pppd on a 3130 |
| 10:41:35 | munehiro | am i the only one ? |
| 11:41:10 | munehiro | anyone alive ? |
| 11:44:58 | Morn | Hi |
| 11:50:12 | mallum | is alive ... just |
| 11:50:22 | munehiro | :) |
| 11:50:51 | munehiro | mallum do you know something about a pppd segfault on familiar 0.4 on an 3130 ? |
| 11:51:23 | mallum | munehiro: sorry munehiro, I dont use pppd :( |
| 11:52:19 | munehiro | hmm |
| 11:52:54 | munehiro | if i want to recompile... should i take the base sources for a common pppd or the familiar one is a restricted version? |
| 11:54:02 | mallum | munehiro: not sure ... I wouldn't have though the familiar one is any different to your regular pppd |
| 11:55:01 | munehiro | i'll try to crosscompile a standard pppd |
| 11:55:24 | munehiro | hoping it works |
| 11:56:41 | Morn | good morning Nelson |
| 11:58:13 | nelson | guten morgen. |
| 11:58:32 | vosque | mornin'. |
| 11:58:38 | vosque | Or, evening, by my lights. :) |
| 12:18:39 | mpakula | anybody running blackbox succesfully ? |
| 12:46:28 | pattieja | morning |
| 12:46:32 | mpakula | nikos: how do i access any application in ion since there is no menu ( I got menu-tiny installed) at least not in the one that I did install 10 min ago ? |
| 12:46:43 | pattieja | install gtk-menu? |
| 12:46:49 | nikos | exactly. |
| 12:46:55 | mpakula | pattieja : goodmorning |
| 12:47:03 | pattieja | morning mpakula |
| 12:47:06 | nikos | Hi pattieja and mpakula |
| 12:47:12 | pattieja | hello nikos |
| 12:53:05 | pattieja | is away: meeting |
| 12:53:29 | mpakula | pattieja: where can I change the settings to menu ? |
| 12:54:34 | nikos | mpakula: The packages will create them at install time. You may need to reinstall packages you installed before installing menu-tiny. |
| 12:56:01 | mpakula | nikos: how about the one that I want to add myself or change some things e.g. keyboard, add wallpaper if possible etc.. |
| 12:56:29 | nikos | mpakula: Create a file in /usr/lib/menu/ ; run update-menus ; kill -HUP gtk-menu |
| 13:06:18 | mpakula | nikos: sorry my admin keeps reseting the router ;( so how about this gtk-menu) ? |
| 13:07:21 | nikos | mpakula: Create a file in /usr/lib/menu/ ; run update-menus ; kill -HUP gtk-menu |
| 13:09:11 | mpakula | nikos: howa about format of gtk-menu ? ( similar to background-menu ?) ? |
| 13:09:41 | nikos | mpakula: Look at the other files in /usr/lib/menu |
| 13:12:43 | mpakula | nikos : can I kill ion and start blackbox on the fly ? Kind of changing enviroments... |
| 13:13:13 | nikos | mpakula: I suppose you can yes. |
| 13:15:54 | munehiro | uhm |
| 13:16:03 | munehiro | i compiled pppd for arm, imported on ipaq |
| 13:16:09 | munehiro | it's pppd 2.4.1 |
| 13:16:15 | munehiro | launched |
| 13:16:17 | munehiro | segfault |
| 13:16:30 | munehiro | now i'm sure it's not a pppd problem... |
| 13:17:06 | munehiro | search ltrace sources |
| 13:50:51 | Morn | |
| 14:08:51 | mpakula | nikos: how do I mount FC to 2.4.7 ? |
| 14:09:15 | nikos | CF? |
| 14:09:30 | mpakula | Nikos: I got 16M FC memory card |
| 14:09:57 | mpakula | nikos: I do apologize CF of course |
| 14:10:01 | nikos | mpakula: Insert it and mount /dev/hda[1-4] (whichever is appropriate) |
| 14:10:18 | nikos | mpakula: How is it formatted? |
| 14:11:18 | mpakula | nikos: have no idea I took it for few days from my canon digital camera so I have to format it probably first, don't I ? |
| 14:11:40 | nikos | mpakula: It's probably formatted fat16 or vfat. |
| 14:14:26 | mpakula | nikos: can I check it somehow and how do I format it ? |
| 14:15:49 | sjohnson | mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda - if it mounts, there you go. |
| 14:16:09 | nikos | will vfat also work for fat16? |
| 14:16:39 | sjohnson | It should. |
| 14:16:45 | nikos | Cool |
| 14:17:27 | sjohnson | I mount CF cards used in my Canon Powershot in my iPAQ all of the time. using -t vfat. |
| 14:19:11 | CmdrChalupa | maybe I'm just an idiot, but shouldn't compiling something -lX11 work on the skiffcluster? |
| 14:19:25 | CmdrChalupa | it can't find X11 |
| 14:20:42 | nikos | -L/usr/X11R6/lib |
| 14:34:04 | mpakula | sjohnson: /mnt/hda is my directory ? if yes how do i check how much I got left while using ? |
| 14:34:18 | sjohnson | df |
| 14:34:50 | mpakula | sjonson: df |
| 14:34:51 | mpakula | Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on |
| 14:35:18 | mpakula | just shows mtdblocks/3 |
| 14:35:45 | sjohnson | what does 'mount' show? Is your CF card even mounted? |
| 14:36:26 | mpakula | mount |
| 14:36:28 | mpakula | none on /dev type devfs (rw) |
| 14:36:29 | mpakula | proc on /proc type proc (rw) |
| 14:36:30 | mpakula | ramfs on /mnt/ramfs type ramfs (rw) |
| 14:36:32 | mpakula | devpts on /dev/pts type devpts (rw) |
| 14:36:43 | nikos | mpakula: You have to mount it before you can check it. |
| 14:37:15 | sjohnson | mount -t vfat /dev/hda1 /mnt/hda |
| 14:40:47 | mpakula | nikos/sjohnson: still nothing after above command it gives me the list of potions of mount |
| 14:41:50 | nikos | mpakula: Can you paste in what you are doing and the responses you get? |
| 14:42:00 | nikos | sjohnson: Does he need to load a module first maybe? |
| 14:42:21 | sjohnson | nikos: Then the mount whould have crapped out with an error. |
| 14:43:06 | nikos | sjohnson: That's what I figured. |
| 14:48:53 | mpakula | nikos: if I do ' mount -t vfat/dev/hda1' i have no response but ' mount -t vfat/dev/hda1 /mnt/hda' returns the usage of mount.. |
| 14:50:01 | Morn | there is a missing space between vfat and /dev/hda1 |
| 14:51:21 | nikos | *sigh* |
| 14:52:45 | mpakula | Apologies .... df shows now the cf card but while mounting i got a set of can''t locate module nls.... messages |
| 14:55:21 | nikos | I think you can ignore those module message. |
| 14:59:02 | DragonEagle | is back |
| 14:59:49 | mpakula | nikos: so /dev/hda1 is my working directory right ? |
| 14:59:58 | nikos | mpakula: no /mnt/hda |
| 15:00:35 | nikos | is away: Errands |
| 15:28:16 | bhima | hrm. the backlight on the H3100 doesnt' work with bl. |
| 15:29:48 | mallum | is away: going home ... |
| 15:34:53 | | dneuer was last seen on #handhelds.org 2 days, 21 hours, 25 minutes and 9 seconds ago, saying: hi again all [Fri Aug 17 19:09:44 2001] |
| 15:34:53 | bhima | ibot: seen dneuer |
| 15:47:00 | sjohnson | is away: lunch |
| 15:47:25 | nikos | is back |
| 15:47:51 | bhima | waves at nikos. |
| 15:47:57 | nikos | Hi bhima |
| 15:48:02 | bhima | hey, any idea if there is a new version of "bl" which works on the H3100? |
| 15:48:11 | nikos | Not that I'm aware of. |
| 15:48:52 | bhima | hmm. ok. does compaq need to give us more info, or should I just post to the list and hope somebody either knows how to do it or can tell me about it? |
| 15:49:04 | bhima | would be happy to fix it if he had any specs/etc |
| 15:49:49 | nikos | bhima: I think if you will search the lists you will find some discussion of this already. I don't remember the resolution. |
| 15:50:24 | bhima | ok. I'll look back further. is there a searchable index? I just say the month by month list of titles. |
| 15:50:47 | nikos | bhima: Use the site-wide search, you can narrow it down to the mailing lists. |
| 15:51:03 | bhima | ok, thanks. |
| 16:01:33 | DragonEagle | is away: reboot |
| 16:36:23 | a7r | morning.. |
| 16:36:32 | jg | a7r: morning |
| 16:36:43 | a7r | jg: how's it? |
| 16:37:09 | jg | so, so: sleep's not been good the last week... |
| 16:37:19 | a7r | ah, suck. |
| 16:37:35 | a7r | I woke up this morning to my router being down. |
| 16:37:45 | a7r | it's a lame way to get up. |
| 16:37:54 | jg | yup.... |
| 16:39:18 | cworth | hi a7r, jg |
| 16:39:47 | cworth | latest xstroke due in a day or two. gtk-menu fixes after that. |
| 16:39:56 | jg | hi. |
| 16:40:01 | a7r | cworth: hola. |
| 16:40:31 | mallum | cworth: whats new with xstroke ? |
| 16:41:54 | cworth | mallum: modifier support and eye-candy, (translucent strokes) are done. Now testing mode support. A help screen is in the design stages. |
| 16:42:49 | jg | cworth: I saw a note from Keith saying new modes were needed in render? |
| 16:42:52 | cworth | mallum: biggest change though is a rewrite from the ground up. The code should be much easier to maintain/extend now. |
| 16:44:14 | mallum | cworth: translucent as in render magic ? |
| 16:44:17 | cworth | jg: well, I got flat, sharp-edged translucent strokes working without the new modes. The new modes enable a pen with a drop-shadow and anti-aliased edges. |
| 16:44:59 | mandrake | I'm starting to really dig xstroke |
| 16:45:04 | mandrake | now that I can finally using it |
| 16:45:16 | mandrake | s/can/am/ |
| 16:46:51 | cworth | keith's handiwork can be seen at: http://keithp.com/~keithp/download/showoff.png |
| 16:47:00 | jg | cworth: getting help is the thing that xstroke needs most urgently... |
| 16:47:30 | cworth | jg: noted. coming soon. |
| 16:48:20 | cworth | jg: but former Palm-users will greatly apreciate the new mode stuff, (and help will actually be largely unnecessary for that population segment). |
| 16:48:41 | jg | cworth: is it in the unstable feed now? |
| 16:48:53 | Morn | Hi everyone |
| 16:50:03 | a7r | mandrake: hey, where's that flite source you were gonna send me? :) |
| 16:50:32 | mandrake | oh crap :) |
| 16:50:34 | mandrake | I forgot about that |
| 16:51:06 | a7r | no worries, but I want to check it out. |
| 16:51:08 | mandrake | I'm actually trying to get flite ready for LWCE right now :) |
| 16:51:22 | mandrake | trying to build a 2nd synthetic voice to put on my ipaq before I leave |
| 16:51:36 | Morn | what is flite? |
| 16:51:44 | a7r | ah, nod. if you get a second, I'd like a copy, if not.. I'll catch it later. |
| 16:51:58 | mandrake | flite is a lightweight speech synthesizer that is capable of rendering incredibly high quality synthetic speech |
| 16:52:09 | Morn | cool |
| 16:52:14 | mandrake | we've got it synthesizing in close-to-realtime now |
| 16:52:17 | mandrake | (on the ipaq) |
| 16:52:26 | mandrake | it's realtime on my desktop |
| 16:52:32 | cworth | jg: just sent 0.5 to incoming. |
| 16:52:36 | jg | a7r: what is the state of stable/unstable these days? |
| 16:52:36 | Morn | could you have it say read a text document? |
| 16:52:46 | mandrake | it takes 0.7 seconds or so to synthesize a phrase on my ipaq |
| 16:52:49 | mandrake | Morn: sure. |
| 16:52:55 | mandrake | it'll be slightly laggy between phrases though |
| 16:53:07 | mpakula | cworth: in the vic that you put into .ipk how did you specify the PATH ? to /bin ? |
| 16:53:09 | mandrake | although we think we can cut that time down to 0.2 seconds |
| 16:53:11 | Morn | still very cool |
| 16:53:18 | a7r | jg: unstable is being updated, so we can kill nelson's bleeding feed (I've given him full write access to unstable), and I'm tracking stable for the v0.5 release.. |
| 16:54:04 | mandrake | how do you type a | in xstroke? |
| 16:54:10 | cworth | a7r should I still be pushing to incoming? or is there a system to pull from a directory I maintain? |
| 16:54:46 | a7r | cworth: push to incoming until I coordinate with nelson tonight.. he's using ipkg.py, and we will probably have a system together RSN. |
| 16:56:01 | jg | cworth: just had a ipkg upgrade fail... Mesaage is *ap++ == 0x55 |
| 16:56:11 | jg | report this to bash-maintainers@prep.ai.mit.edu |
| 16:56:21 | jg | stopping myself...Aborted |
| 16:56:28 | cworth | a7r: cool. I'll wait for an announcement. Personally, I think a common push location system is perhaps better. |
| 16:56:42 | cworth | jg: ouch. that's a new failure mode. :( |
| 16:57:13 | jg | I'm trying again. It was upgrading the kernel and modules... Hope I didn't get hosed... |
| 16:57:39 | cworth | mandrake: up-down-right, (7414789), looks like an error in the diagram at: ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/projects/xstroke/release-0.3/alphabet-portrait.png |
| 16:58:41 | BZFlag | a7r: yer tuxscreens are headed to the PO. ;-) |
| 16:59:01 | a7r | BZFlagf: werd, thanks. |
| 16:59:11 | a7r | gah, andern.org MX is hosed. |
| 16:59:15 | mandrake | cworth: cool. thanks :) |
| 17:00:30 | mallum | mandrake: you have a url for flite ? |
| 17:00:37 | jg | a7r,cworth: call time. |
| 17:01:00 | mallum | cworth: Did docs for the render stuff come with the X dist ? |
| 17:01:03 | mandrake | mallum: 1 sec |
| 17:01:31 | mandrake | http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/flite/ |
| 17:01:53 | mandrake | I don't see where alan released it yet |
| 17:01:54 | mandrake | but I can find it |
| 17:02:42 | cworth | mallum: the spec. is there. There are some small example programs out there that are helpful, as are the render include files. |
| 17:03:25 | mallum | cworth: do you have a url ? |
| 17:04:15 | | rumour has it render docs is at http://www.eax.com/render/ |
| 17:04:15 | nikos | ibot: render docs |
| 17:04:26 | nikos | mallum: check that out, worked pretty good for me. |
| 17:04:43 | nikos | render or randr? |
| 17:05:53 | mallum | render |
| 17:05:57 | mandrake | I seriously dig usb networking on my ipaq |
| 17:05:58 | mandrake | this is happy |
| 17:05:59 | mandrake | :) |
| 17:06:00 | mallum | thx nicos |
| 17:06:21 | mallum | mandrake: its extra good if you do the power hack on the cable too |
| 17:06:27 | mandrake | I have my ipaq set to sync with my laptop now whenever I set it on the cradle |
| 17:06:34 | mandrake | er... |
| 17:06:37 | mandrake | power hack on the cable? |
| 17:07:15 | | mallum: excuse me? |
| 17:07:15 | mallum | ibot: usb power |
| 17:07:24 | | mallum: wish i knew |
| 17:07:24 | mallum | ibot: tangent usb ? |
| 17:07:51 | mandrake | I need to go and pick up some more accessories before I head to linuxworld anyways |
| 17:07:58 | mallum | mandrake: theres are docs on doing it on Tangents site - ipaq.secret.org.uk IIRC |
| 17:08:23 | mallum | mandrake: you can basically power the ipaq from the 5v on the usb |
| 17:08:40 | mandrake | ooh nifty |
| 17:08:45 | mallum | mandrake: you violate the usb spec though |
| 17:09:22 | mallum | mandrake: and it dont seem to work with my newer laptop :( |
| 17:09:56 | Morn | looks for the nearest radio shack so she can get a soldering iron. |
| 17:10:00 | mandrake | I need to get irda running between my laptop and my ipaq - now that I think about it :) |
| 17:13:13 | a7r | all the parts should exist. |
| 17:16:46 | mandrake | what is underscore if up,down,right is pipe? |
| 17:17:16 | mandrake | ah screw it I'll figure this all out as I go along :) |
| 17:17:36 | nikos | mandrake: Its a variant on that, I always have to search through those combos. |
| 17:18:01 | mandrake | xstroke needs a popup help screen |
| 17:18:01 | nikos | mandrake: Actually, I think right left right will do it too. |
| 17:18:01 | mandrake | :) |
| 17:18:02 | cworth | mandrake: right-left-right or right-left-up. |
| 17:18:24 | cworth | mandrake: yes. help-mode is forthcoming. |
| 17:19:16 | mandrake | with more pixel definition than the current alphabet-portrait.png file |
| 17:19:26 | mpakula | mallum: Do you know where can I find HowTo on USB-->seriall so I could actually have both conections and power from USB ? |
| 17:23:08 | bworth | mpakula: http://ipak.secret.org.uk |
| 17:25:47 | | it has been said that ipaq serial is at http://handhelds.org/minihowto/h3600-serial-cable.html |
| 17:25:47 | nikos | ibot: ipaq serial |
| 17:27:02 | mpakula | bworth: I went through this page and I managed to do add usb to my seriall but how about the other way around ? to get sort of ultimate cradle |
| 17:34:52 | bworth | mpakula: if you added usb to your serial cradle, what are you missing? Does it not do usb and serial both, now that you have modified it? |
| 17:39:36 | mpakula | bworth: I tried also to put serial to USB cradle simply backtracking the serial to usb but powering of iPAQ doesn't work ( I'll go through it again tomorrow, maybe I got short-circuit or no connection somewhere ;o( ) |
| 17:39:47 | mandrake | compiles perl/gtk on his ipaq |
| 17:43:02 | Morn | has anyone used cygwin as a cross-compiler environment? |
| 17:43:13 | mandrake | sorry, don't have windows anywhere |
| 17:43:51 | Morn | My linux server is remote and my linux workstation is in storage til I get my own apartment |
| 17:44:14 | Morn | So I'm stuck on my laptop which runs win98 til then |
| 17:47:19 | sjohnson | is back (gone 02:00:20) |
| 17:58:14 | nelson | a7r: you there, white boy? |
| 18:11:32 | sjohnson | is away: I'm busy. |
| 18:33:40 | Morn | This is insane, one of the development tools I found for the pocketpc (WinCE development) wants $1599 for the single user personal version... |
| 18:40:22 | Phondew | Isn't that why we're all sitting here talking about mobile Linux? |
| 18:41:04 | Morn | The trouble is WinCE has a wider audience... |
| 18:41:14 | Morn | and a girl has to make a living somehow |
| 18:42:54 | nikos | Morn: I think the point is that this Channel is purely about Familiar, the Linux Distribution for Handhelds. You would likely find a more receptive audience on the M$ newsgroups. |
| 18:44:15 | Morn | I'm not looking for help from this channel about WinCE, just making a comment |
| 18:44:41 | nikos | Fine, but don't expect a useful response. ;) |
| 18:44:54 | sgodsell | Morn: How much space is on your 98 notebook? |
| 18:45:19 | Morn | It only has a 6gig hard drive with 1 gig free |
| 18:45:44 | sgodsell | Well disk is cheap, even for notebooks nowadays. |
| 18:46:07 | sgodsell | or get an external drive |
| 18:46:32 | Morn | I've thought about upgrading it, but wasn't sure how hard it would be to transfer from one drive to another (though I could use my portable MP3 player as a temp drive it is 20gig) |
| 18:47:42 | sgodsell | Well either way your best bet would be to install linux or pull your other system out of storage ;) |
| 18:48:25 | Morn | I have 2 other linux systems (one smp and one sparc) but there is no room in this apartment for another computer and monitor... stupid NYC apartments are tiny |
| 18:48:51 | _HONKEY_ | do wot i did |
| 18:48:57 | _HONKEY_ | use a rackmount |
| 18:49:08 | sgodsell | Well good Luck, Morn |
| 18:49:22 | Morn | thanks... |
| 18:50:01 | Morn | as soon as I can though I'm going to put linux on the iPAQ :-) |
| 18:53:39 | mindrape_ | i'm having power off problems with mine |
| 18:53:47 | mindrape_ | i have to do a soft reset when it goes to sleep |
| 18:54:01 | nikos | mindrape_: What bootloader version are you running? |
| 18:54:31 | mindrape_ | 2.14.14 |
| 18:55:48 | nikos | mindrape_: I would recommend stepping back to 2.14.8, that is not a stable version I don't think. |
| 19:14:37 | mindrape_ | ok sorry about that |
| 19:14:39 | mindrape_ | nikos: i'm running 2.14.14 bootldr |
| 19:14:41 | mindrape_ | is there an issue with that loader? |
| 19:15:09 | nikos | mindrape_: I've heard other complaints, that bootloader was never officially released I don't believe. |
| 19:15:33 | mindrape_ | so i should probably downgrade |
| 19:15:42 | mindrape_ | it should be safe to do that |
| 19:15:48 | nikos | mindrape_: I think I would recommend it. |
| 19:15:54 | nikos | mindrape_: Yes, should be safe. |
| 19:15:55 | mindrape_ | that i will do as soon as i get home |
| 19:16:02 | mindrape_ | how bout 2.4.6 kernel? |
| 19:16:31 | mindrape_ | i'm hoping muh boss picks up a couple of those tuxscreens |
| 19:17:17 | nikos | mindrape_: I use a 2.4.6 kernel with good success, others prefer the 2.4.7 |
| 19:18:32 | mindrape_ | wots the advantage of 2.4.7? |
| 19:18:47 | nikos | I'm not sure |
| 19:20:21 | mindrape_ | hopefully i get this suspend/power off issue resolved =( school starts in 2 weeks |
| 19:41:34 | jg | nikos: 2.4.7 works at least as well as 2.4.6, and is more up to date (which means we have a prayer of moving patches back upstream). It is also likely what familiar .5 will use. |
| 19:42:40 | nikos | jg: Great, I've been using sjohnson's custom 2.4.6 to get my wlan-ng card to work, so I've personally been cautious to change anything lately. |
| 19:43:31 | jg | I wasn't claiming you couldn't get burned by 2.4.7, just that it seems stable and we've moved over to it (and will work with people to fix problems they discover). |
| 19:43:56 | nikos | jg: I understand, I too had heard that 2.4.7 was in general an improvement. |
| 19:44:15 | nikos | jg: It's time for me to bug you again... Any news on ALS? ;) |
| 19:44:41 | jg | what exactly is the question? |
| 19:45:11 | nikos | jg: If we are still planning to have HotHouse like activity and what the dates of said activity would be. |
| 19:45:39 | jg | we certainly will: the only question is for how long... |
| 19:48:47 | jg | I just tried calling Keith: no answer... |
| 19:49:03 | nikos | OK, thanks. |
| 19:49:22 | nikos | jg: Mind a Xlib question? |
| 19:49:27 | jg | 42 |
| 19:49:33 | nikos | wrong answer |
| 19:49:52 | jg | by definition: 42 is the answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything... |
| 19:50:35 | nikos | Am I incorrect in thinking that the Xrm functions don't do any path searching for the database files, instead you have to be using something like Intrinsics to get that. I'm talking about automatically finding the file in /etc/X11/app-defaults I mean. |
| 19:51:16 | jg | I don't remember for sure, but your understanding sounds likely correct. |
| 19:51:34 | nikos | Thanks. |
| 20:19:05 | sjohnson | is back (gone 02:07:33) |
| 21:07:08 | pattieja | I've only perused the package list briefly (and saw a really neat looking gps package :) and was wondering if there are any packages to monitor CPU temperature, etc. for the iPAQ? and/or does it even have a sensor/capability to do so? |
| 21:08:14 | nikos | pattieja: It doesn't have such to my knowledge. |
| 21:09:00 | pattieja | thanks nikos |
| 21:09:09 | pattieja | hmm. Just wondering if it might be overheating |
| 21:09:16 | pattieja | was working just fine with it awhile ago. |
| 21:09:32 | pattieja | then went to run dillo and bash and they both gave me 'Segmentation fault' errors at the ash prompt |
| 21:09:36 | pattieja | so i rebooted |
| 21:09:44 | pattieja | haven't tried anything since then yet |
| 21:10:25 | pattieja | it had 37MB free RAM and 1.3MB free flashdisk when it started giving me errors |
| 21:10:45 | pattieja | so if it was overheating, would that have affected the RAM maybe? |
| 21:10:51 | pattieja | or the flashdisk contents? |
| 21:11:04 | pattieja | or maybe it's still ok and just needed to be rebooted or something? |
| 21:14:49 | nikos | dneuer: bhima was looking for you earlier. |
| 21:16:03 | dneuer | nikos: did you catch what it was in reference to? |
| 21:16:38 | nikos | <bhima> hrm. the backlight on the H3100 doesnt' work with bl. |
| 21:16:42 | a8r | dneuer: something about large sums of money, and paying back blood debts. |
| 21:16:47 | nikos | <bhima> hey, any idea if there is a new version of "bl" which works on the H3100? |
| 21:24:36 | dneuer | hmm. haven't even looked at bl |
| 21:27:02 | nikos | dneuer: pretty simple ioctl app I expect. Clearly most of the work is in the kernel. |
| 21:28:46 | dneuer | yep. Jamey just checked in the 31xx-specific atmel commands recently, and they haven't been integrated into the ts driver |
| 21:29:44 | dneuer | nikos: is the code to familiar's bl built from hh cvs? |
| 21:30:03 | nikos | dneuer: I think it's in there somewhere. |
| 21:31:09 | dneuer_DINNERTIME | is away: cleaning catbox & ts driver (not sure which is worse) |
| 22:13:23 | munehiro | hi all :) |
| 22:13:33 | munehiro | anyone alive ? |
| 22:14:37 | munehiro | hi DragonEagle |
| 22:14:37 | mandrake | no |
| 22:14:38 | mandrake | no one alive here. |
| 22:14:41 | mandrake | but us chickens |
| 22:14:49 | munehiro | :P |
| 22:14:58 | DragonEagle | hi mandrake |
| 22:15:06 | mandrake | heh |
| 22:15:23 | mandrake | I finally got usb networking goign today |
| 22:15:23 | mandrake | fixed a bug in perl with no FPU |
| 22:15:23 | munehiro | i'm the only one having problems with pppd on a 3130 ? i get segfault |
| 22:15:26 | mandrake | (dynaloader stuff) |
| 22:15:34 | DragonEagle | munehiro hi |
| 22:15:55 | munehiro | i upgraded pppd from familiar 2.4.0beta1 |
| 22:15:57 | munehiro | to 2.4.1 |
| 22:15:58 | munehiro | same result |
| 22:16:29 | mandrake | munehiro: I didn't have any problems |
| 22:16:36 | munehiro | mandrake: on 3130 ? |
| 22:16:59 | mandrake | I have a 3670 |
| 22:17:04 | munehiro | :/ |
| 22:18:07 | munehiro | btw... what are future project at compaq ? |
| 22:18:18 | mandrake | I don't work at compaq |
| 22:18:28 | mandrake | couldn't tell you |
| 22:18:29 | mandrake | :) |
| 22:18:31 | munehiro | :) |
| 22:18:39 | mandrake | I work at a speech synthesis company |
| 22:18:48 | munehiro | sometimes gossip runs out from the company :) |
| 22:19:05 | mandrake | I am hoping to have a good conversation with jim gettys at LWCE though about the ipaq |
| 22:19:07 | munehiro | 36xx series are very interesting and well featured... |
| 22:22:35 | mandrake | fucking crashed my ipaq |
| 22:22:35 | mandrake | heh |
| 22:22:40 | mandrake | that always happens to me :) |
| 22:22:54 | munehiro | [Familiar] pppd segfaults Oliver Kurth |
| 22:22:54 | munehiro | i'm not alone |
| 22:22:54 | munehiro | but no reply :( |
| 22:25:52 | pattieja | mandrake: we've got a 3670 as well |
| 22:25:58 | pattieja | you running mandrake on it? hehe |
| 22:28:42 | mandrake | no I'm not |
| 22:28:49 | mandrake | it is named after me purely coincidentally |
| 22:29:07 | mandrake | I met them at linux expo 98 right before they released their first CD |
| 22:29:12 | mandrake | asked them not to name it mandrake |
| 22:29:22 | mandrake | and the kid said 'sorry, I already pressed the cds :(' |
| 22:29:25 | Morn | Mandrake Linux? |
| 22:30:08 | mandrake | yup |
| 22:30:18 | Morn | That is what I use, I like it a lot |
| 22:30:29 | mandrake | I just wish they had called it something else |
| 22:30:51 | mandrake | it's actually funny, with the influx of linux users, it has gone from 'why did you start your own distribution' to 'why did you name yourself after a distribution' |
| 22:32:31 | Morn | Mandrake your in NYC? |
| 22:32:58 | mandrake | no, I'm in pittsburgh actually |
| 22:33:09 | mandrake | moved here a few months ago from california |
| 22:33:59 | mandrake | was working for VA linux systems until I decided it was time to jump ship |
| 22:34:47 | Morn | oh, ok, the IP your on says nyc1 |
| 22:34:52 | mandrake | yes |
| 22:35:00 | mandrake | that's because that's the closest POP for speakeasy to here |
| 22:35:32 | Morn | I just moved to NYC, looking for some friends |
| 22:36:44 | Morn | None of my friends here know anything about linux and think I'm just a geekette |
| 22:37:57 | Morn | Well, I need to reboot and try this new kernel, wish me luck. |
| 22:49:28 | dneuer | is back (gone 01:18:20) |
| 22:49:59 | dneuer | mandrake, have you noticed that there are a ridiculous # of people on these channels from PGH? |
| 22:50:12 | dneuer | you, me, bhima, pkomarek |
| 22:51:03 | mandrake | actually |
| 22:51:11 | mandrake | I didn't know a lot of these people were from PGH :) |
| 22:51:27 | mandrake | I haven't met most of the people around here that don't work with me at cepstral :) |
| 22:51:29 | dneuer | those are just the ones that spring to mind immediately |
| 22:51:57 | mandrake | I'm down on the southside |
| 22:52:06 | dneuer | is in Edgewood |
| 22:52:12 | mandrake | I live in edgewood |
| 22:52:15 | mandrake | that is funny as hell |
| 22:52:18 | mandrake | where do you live in edgewood? |
| 22:52:36 | dneuer | Gordon st, but though you said south side? |
| 22:52:41 | mandrake | I work on the south side |
| 22:52:44 | mandrake | which is where I am right now |
| 22:52:45 | dneuer | ah |
| 22:52:52 | mandrake | I live on elm st |
| 22:52:56 | dneuer | I work in Rochester PA, and I don't like it |
| 22:53:04 | dneuer | mandrake: hey, neighbor |
| 22:53:19 | mandrake | they shut down most of the roads I take on saturday |
| 22:53:22 | mandrake | irritating |
| 22:54:12 | dneuer | yep. Pittsburgh. Transportation infrastructure is out middle name. |
| 22:54:20 | mandrake | no shit |
| 22:54:26 | mandrake | you're liike 2 streets over |
| 22:54:26 | mandrake | in fact |
| 22:54:30 | mandrake | I've probably walked by your house |
| 22:54:42 | mandrake | I think I _HAVE_ walked by your house |
| 22:54:52 | mandrake | I've taken my little portable gps and roamed around the neighborhood |
| 22:55:09 | dneuer | I have a red wooden cardinal on the front of my house |
| 22:55:17 | mandrake | gordon st isn't very long (neither is elm) |
| 22:55:33 | dneuer | I'm on the block above chestnut |
| 22:56:10 | mandrake | that's in the back away from edgewood ave, right? |
| 22:56:28 | dneuer | yes |
| 22:56:38 | mandrake | heh, that's funny :) |
| 22:56:38 | dneuer | on the right side |
| 22:56:49 | DragonEagle | is away: dinner |
| 22:57:14 | mandrake | heh |
| 22:57:19 | mandrake | I'm the house on the corner on elm street |
| 22:57:30 | mandrake | corner of linden and elm |
| 22:57:39 | mandrake | on the right, coming from edgewood ave |
| 22:57:47 | mandrake | that's funny :) |
| 22:58:10 | mandrake | two houses down from me is head of IT at duquene (sp?) |
| 22:58:23 | mandrake | the school, not the evil utility company |
| 22:58:47 | mandrake | I'll have to get you to show me cool things on your ipaq :) |
| 22:59:33 | mandrake | if you need a job, we're hiring some people, actually |
| 22:59:34 | dneuer | not much cool on my iPAQ at the moment |
| 22:59:48 | dneuer | mandrake: what type of people, what type of skills |
| 22:59:49 | dneuer | ? |
| 22:59:54 | mandrake | if you knew much about programming audio, I'd hire you starting tomorrow :) |
| 23:00:07 | dneuer | knows nothing about programming audio |
| 23:00:14 | mandrake | otherwise, if you don't mind rote monotonous pc tasks, I can use your help, too |
| 23:00:29 | mandrake | that doesn't pay as well however |
| 23:00:44 | dneuer | hates rote monotonous pc tasks and low pay ;-) |
| 23:00:47 | mandrake | we need people for hand-correcting phoneme labels |
| 23:00:49 | dneuer | thanks anyway |
| 23:00:53 | mandrake | well, it doesn't pay THAT poorly |
| 23:00:57 | dneuer | training data |
| 23:02:19 | dneuer | I currently work as a senior programmer doing J2EE stuff, so I'm fairly close to the top of the IT pay curve, doing something I unfortunately don't find very interesting |
| 23:03:19 | dneuer | wishes someone would pay him to hack fun free software |
| 23:04:35 | mandrake | that's what we're doing here |
| 23:05:05 | mandrake | we're building 2 free synthetic voices |
| 23:05:06 | mandrake | I've got one running on my ipaq now :) |
| 23:05:08 | munehiro | how can i understand why my pppd crashes ? |
| 23:05:19 | munehiro | strace gives no useful info |
| 23:05:27 | munehiro | ltrace goes into recursion (why ?) |
| 23:05:42 | dneuer | wishes someone would pay him *LOTS* to hack fun free sotware, overlooking the obvious deficiencies in his background and education |
| 23:07:36 | dneuer | munehiro: pppd on ipaq? |
| 23:08:17 | dneuer | mandrake: did you play around at all with AT&T's recently announced speech stuff? |
| 23:08:31 | munehiro | dneuer: yep |
| 23:08:31 | munehiro | dneuer: segfaults |
| 23:08:41 | munehiro | just after start |
| 23:08:46 | munehiro | im' on a 3130 |
| 23:08:47 | dneuer | what's the last thing strace shows? |
| 23:08:55 | mandrake | dneuer: yeah, it's all based on the old version of festival, also requires a big fat server to run on |
| 23:08:56 | munehiro | fcntl(5, F_SETLKW, {type=F_WRLCK, whence=SEEK_SET, start=1456, len=1}) = 0 |
| 23:09:04 | mandrake | whereas I can do speech that sounds just as good on an ipaq realtime :) |
| 23:09:08 | munehiro | dneuer: 5 is a filedes that comes from a open |
| 23:09:14 | munehiro | of /var/run/pppd.tdb |
| 23:09:59 | munehiro | which is 556 bytes long |
| 23:11:11 | dneuer | munehiro: only thing I can suggest is to recompile a debug version of it and run it under gdb |
| 23:11:26 | DragonEagle | is back |
| 23:11:36 | munehiro | too heavy |
| 23:11:43 | munehiro | crosscompiling gdb |
| 23:11:45 | munehiro | for arm |
| 23:11:49 | munehiro | argh! |
| 23:11:58 | dneuer | munehiro: there's already a dgb in the familiar unstable feed |
| 23:12:17 | mandrake | heh |
| 23:12:23 | mandrake | I just installed intimate |
| 23:12:24 | munehiro | are you sure the pppd.tdb is sane ? |
| 23:13:28 | dneuer | munehiro: the only caveat is that the 3100's don't have huge amounts of ram, where gdb wants lots, so you end up having to be *very* picky about which files you leave the symbols in, and how many breakpoints you set, or the kernel oom killer ends up doing bad things (like killing init) |
| 23:14:08 | munehiro | hm |
| 23:14:14 | munehiro | i'm very luck |
| 23:14:23 | munehiro | so i think it won't work |
| 23:14:50 | dneuer | mandrake: I was impressed with the tone & timbre of the AT&T voices, but the inflection sucked, of course |
| 23:15:32 | dneuer | mandrake: didn't even get the rising tone at the end of a question |
| 23:15:58 | dneuer | mandrake: and had big problems with dipthongs |
| 23:17:53 | dneuer | munehiro: I know nothing about the innards of pppd (or the outards, for that matter). All I can tell you is that it is possible to debug natively on the 31xx's. That's how I helped Keith Packard identify problems in TinyX on the 31xx's |
| 23:21:40 | mandrake | dneuer: questions do not always have rising at the end of a phrase. |
| 23:22:13 | mandrake | before you say that, ask some questions aloud and listen to how silly some of them sound when you raise the pitch at the end |
| 23:22:15 | mandrake | :) |
| 23:23:12 | dneuer | mandrake: like "what the hell are you talking about?" and "where do you catch the bus around here?" |
| 23:23:17 | munehiro | installed gdb |
| 23:23:22 | munehiro | crossing fingers |
| 23:23:41 | mandrake | dneuer: notice how the last word is not, in fact, in a raised tone, but lowered. |
| 23:23:42 | mandrake | :) |
| 23:23:42 | munehiro | uhm |
| 23:23:51 | munehiro | are you perplexed if i tell you that |
| 23:24:05 | munehiro | the segfault occurs in memcpy() ? |
| 23:24:26 | munehiro | tdb_read() calls memcy() |
| 23:24:40 | munehiro | and then segfaults |
| 23:24:46 | mandrake | munehiro: not necessarily |
| 23:24:47 | munehiro | let's see that func |
| 23:24:54 | dneuer | munehiro: that's not perplexing. sounds like pppd is giving a garbage pointer to memcpy |
| 23:24:56 | mandrake | what happens when you pass an invalid pointer to memcpy as the destination? |
| 23:25:16 | a8r | mandrake: depends.. |
| 23:25:28 | munehiro | uhm |
| 23:25:36 | mandrake | it will dump core either then or at some point thereafter |
| 23:25:38 | mandrake | :) |
| 23:25:40 | a8r | yeah. |
| 23:25:55 | a8r | you either get lucky, and are trying to use NULL, or you get unlucky, and trounce memory you needed. |
| 23:26:51 | munehiro | i got it |
| 23:26:56 | munehiro | can i paste the code ? |
| 23:27:01 | dneuer | yep |
| 23:27:03 | munehiro | /* read a lump of data at a specified offset */ |
| 23:27:04 | munehiro | static int tdb_read(TDB_CONTEXT *tdb, tdb_off offset, char *buf, tdb_len len) |
| 23:27:04 | munehiro | { |
| 23:27:04 | munehiro | if (tdb_oob(tdb, offset + len) != 0) { |
| 23:27:04 | munehiro | /* oops - trying to read beyond the end of the database! */ |
| 23:27:04 | munehiro | return -1; |
| 23:27:06 | munehiro | } |
| 23:27:08 | munehiro | if (tdb->map_ptr) { |
| 23:27:10 | munehiro | memcpy(buf, offset + (char *)tdb->map_ptr, len); |
| 23:27:21 | munehiro | what the hell is this tdb file ? |
| 23:27:28 | munehiro | } else { |
| 23:27:29 | munehiro | if (lseek(tdb->fd, offset, SEEK_SET) != offset || |
| 23:27:29 | munehiro | read(tdb->fd, buf, len) != (ssize_t)len) { |
| 23:27:29 | munehiro | tdb->ecode = TDB_ERR_IO; |
| 23:27:29 | munehiro | return -1; |
| 23:27:29 | munehiro | } |
| 23:27:31 | munehiro | } |
| 23:27:33 | munehiro | return 0; |
| 23:27:35 | munehiro | } |
| 23:29:35 | dneuer | munehiro: if the tdb_oob function is doing its job, then it looks like buf points to memory the process doesn't own |
| 23:29:42 | munehiro | [ipaq@quela tmp]$ ls -la /var/run/pppd.tdb |
| 23:29:43 | munehiro | -rw-r--r-- 1 root munehiro 122880 ago 19 15:46 /var/run/pppd.tdb |
| 23:29:44 | dneuer | munehiro: that's my guess |
| 23:29:56 | munehiro | on my home machine is very heavy |
| 23:30:02 | munehiro | on ipaq is only 556 bytes |
| 23:30:25 | munehiro | the fcntl call tries to set a lock at 1456th byte |
| 23:31:36 | dneuer | what's 'df' show on your iPAQ? |
| 23:31:50 | munehiro | available 6 megs |
| 23:32:02 | munehiro | no... 7 megs |
| 23:33:24 | munehiro | it seems a pppd bug |
| 23:33:30 | munehiro | but... |
| 23:33:40 | munehiro | why i have problems and nobody else has ? |
| 23:34:16 | dneuer | munehiro: who else is running pppd on a 31xx? |
| 23:34:34 | munehiro | hm |
| 23:34:38 | munehiro | i miss psutils |
| 23:34:52 | munehiro | maybe some other pppd is locking ? |
| 23:35:53 | munehiro | proc says it's ok |
| 23:35:59 | munehiro | no other pppd |
| 23:37:10 | dneuer | munehiro: I wouldn't expect a well-behaved program to segfault if it couldn't get a lock. It's a bug. You should probably recompile pppd from source with the -g flag (at least on those files closest in the call chain to tbd_read()) and then step through it and examine the values |
| 23:38:19 | munehiro | ok |
| 23:38:31 | munehiro | but i think i won't get so much |
| 23:38:51 | munehiro | pppd is not a hello world program |
| 23:39:11 | dneuer | munehiro: pay special attention to what buf points to, and how the TBD_CONTEXT is initialized |
| 23:39:45 | dneuer | munehiro: what kernel version are you using? |
| 23:40:11 | munehiro | 246 |
| 23:40:33 | dneuer | 2.4.6-rmk1-np2-mono1? |
| 23:40:36 | munehiro | yup |
| 23:41:19 | dneuer | munehiro: maybe if I get a chance I'll try it out. |
| 23:41:40 | dneuer | munehiro: I'm not especially likely to get a chance, but who knows |
| 23:41:56 | munehiro | uhm |
| 23:41:56 | dneuer | munehiro: you need this critically? |
| 23:42:13 | munehiro | well... since i have a nokia 7110 phone... |
| 23:42:23 | munehiro | it could be useful using it with my ipaq |
| 23:42:30 | munehiro | ok |
| 23:42:32 | munehiro | i get a strange |
| 23:42:33 | munehiro | ness |
| 23:42:43 | dneuer | what's the connection between the phone and running pppd? |
| 23:42:44 | munehiro | breaking at tdb_read |
| 23:43:02 | munehiro | dneuer: to dial out through irda port |
| 23:43:31 | munehiro | char *buf is 0x7 and len is 33803232 bytes :) |
| 23:43:31 | dneuer | munehiro: phone == connection to world for iPAQ? |
| 23:43:41 | munehiro | dneuer: yep |
| 23:43:53 | munehiro | my isp accepts gsm calls |
| 23:44:00 | mandrake | hrmm |
| 23:44:06 | mandrake | I still need to get a dual pcmcia sleeve |
| 23:44:16 | dneuer | mandrake: me toooooooo |
| 23:44:49 | dneuer | munehiro: that's a pretty huge buffer |
| 23:45:22 | munehiro | yup... but from here to fix ... it's quite long :) |
| 23:45:45 | dneuer | munehiro: actually, probably a small buffer and a huge len, and apparently tbd_oob doesn't detect the overrun |
| 23:46:17 | dneuer | munehiro: you're in tdb_read now? |
| 23:46:24 | dneuer | in gdb? |
| 23:46:33 | munehiro | i'm in the calling function, ofs?read |
| 23:46:34 | munehiro | i'm in the calling function, ofs_read |
| 23:46:50 | dneuer | where does len come from? |
| 23:46:59 | munehiro | static int ofs_read(TDB_CONTEXT *tdb, tdb_off offset, tdb_off *d) |
| 23:47:00 | munehiro | { |
| 23:47:00 | munehiro | return tdb_read(tdb, offset, (char *)d, sizeof(*d)); |
| 23:47:00 | munehiro | } |
| 23:47:03 | munehiro | here it is |
| 23:47:35 | munehiro | (char *)d is wrong |
| 23:47:39 | munehiro | is 0x7 |
| 23:47:47 | munehiro | so it's wrong d |
| 23:48:00 | munehiro | oh |
| 23:48:07 | munehiro | btw... doing a backtrace |
| 23:48:12 | munehiro | now reports 4 for lenght |
| 23:48:32 | munehiro | and no longer that huge number |
| 23:48:44 | munehiro | however |
| 23:49:14 | munehiro | d is 0xbffffc44 |
| 23:49:18 | munehiro | so it's in the stack |
| 23:49:40 | munehiro | tdb_off *d |
| 23:49:55 | munehiro | a pointer to a tdb_off offset |
| 23:50:05 | munehiro | casted to a pointer to char |
| 23:50:10 | munehiro | and gives 0x7 ? |
| 23:50:41 | munehiro | uhm |
| 23:52:30 | munehiro | tdb_off is a typedef for unsigned |
| 23:52:50 | munehiro | so i have a cast from unsigned * to char * |
| 23:52:51 | dneuer | so 4 is the right length for an unsigned int |
| 23:53:12 | munehiro | tdb_read gets this char * pointer |
| 23:53:32 | dneuer | the cast to char * is just a convention to treat something as raw memory, and that's what memcpy expects |
| 23:53:43 | munehiro | right |
| 23:54:00 | munehiro | static int tdb_read(TDB_CONTEXT *tdb, tdb_off offset, char *buf, tdb_len len) |
| 23:54:01 | munehiro | { |
| 23:54:04 | munehiro | now we are here |
| 23:54:15 | munehiro | but here char *buf is 0x7 |
| 23:55:13 | munehiro | places a return -1 at the beginning of tdb_read and die to pppd bugs :) |
| 23:56:09 | munehiro | tdb_oob does not use buf |
| 23:56:52 | munehiro | no hope |
| 23:57:03 | munehiro | i always get 0x9 |
| 23:57:04 | munehiro | i always get 0x7 |
| 23:57:42 | dneuer | munehiro: no tdb_oob = tdb_out_of_bounds(): checks to see if the offset + len will overrun the memory owned by tdb |
| 23:58:11 | munehiro | yup but it's not my issue |
| 23:58:17 | munehiro | troubles comes |
| 23:58:23 | munehiro | when 0x7 is passed to memcpy |
| 23:58:30 | munehiro | memcpy(buf, offset + (char *)tdb->map_ptr, len); |
| 23:58:37 | munehiro | this is in tdb_read |
| 23:58:43 | munehiro | since buf is 0x7 it crashes |
| 23:58:47 | munehiro | but... |
| 23:58:56 | dneuer | looks like buf is bad. Where does the tdb_offset * d get its storage allocated? |
| 23:58:59 | munehiro | the calling function, ofs_read |
| 23:59:16 | munehiro | at call time is a stack pointer |
| 23:59:24 | munehiro | after the call it's 0x7 |
| 23:59:30 | munehiro | it's impossible |
