| 00:05:34 | DragonEagle | is away: store |
| 01:29:55 | DragonEagle | is back |
| 01:45:00 | mindrape | phear |
| 01:45:06 | mindrape | i got the keyboard to work in suspension mode |
| 04:16:11 | DragonEagle_dennys | is away: see ya |
| 06:09:08 | DragonEagle | is back |
| 08:05:59 | SleepingDragon | is away: good night all |
| 10:56:44 | sventon | Hello, although PCMCIA modems should "just work" my Xircom PCMCIA CreditCard 56k-GlobalACCESS didn't. |
| 10:57:46 | sventon | Now, I know CF cards are supposed to work but is there any evidence of PCMCIA (non-combo) cards working? |
| 10:58:25 | sventon | Any tweaks that have to be done? (Already I had to install setserial myself). I've read |
| 10:58:58 | sventon | about people having to make some setserial-related tweaks but nothing documented. |
| 10:59:37 | sventon | Hmm, nobody else up yet... |
| 11:00:59 | sventon | Hmm, I think next I'll still try installing syslog from .deb and see if that'll give me more clues. |
| 11:01:24 | sventon | Weird having a monolog on IRC... |
| 11:07:46 | sventon | /dev/ttyS0 is what is being configured and what I've been trying to use. |
| 11:08:00 | sventon | standard familiar .4 kernel. |
| 11:19:49 | sventon | Dang, I'm gonna have to bug you guys on familiar@handhelds too... à tout à l'heure probably... |
| 12:52:41 | pattieja | good morning |
| 12:52:47 | nikos | Hello pattieja |
| 12:53:02 | pattieja | morning nikos |
| 12:53:50 | pattieja | I was wondering, is there any packages that have to do with login managers like [XKG]DM for the Familiar/iPAQ? |
| 12:54:39 | nikos | pattieja: I believe a7r was working on some such in a top secret project (j/k) but I don't believe any resulting patches have been released. |
| 12:54:51 | pattieja | oh |
| 12:55:02 | nikos | s/patches/packages/ |
| 12:55:33 | nikos | There's not much point in it until we have true multi-user which may make it into v0.5 but looks like it may be delayed another version. |
| 12:55:36 | pattieja | because my boss was thinking about something along the lines of having multiple people have accounts on the iPAQ and use it different days of the week in the field, etc. and of course right now any user can see the files that any other user has on the device. |
| 12:55:48 | pattieja | we don't have multi-user currently? |
| 12:55:48 | nikos | Right, you can't really do that yet. |
| 12:55:51 | pattieja | oh |
| 12:56:02 | pattieja | But there are multiple accounts on the box, right? |
| 12:56:03 | nikos | Soon though, that is on the todo list. |
| 12:56:13 | nikos | pattieja: Right now you always run as root. |
| 12:56:37 | pattieja | except when establishing the ppp link, right? |
| 12:56:42 | pattieja | user = ppp |
| 12:57:21 | pattieja | I did notice that the passwd program is missing, so you can't change root's password. Seems a little insecure to me. |
| 12:59:16 | nikos | It's just the ppp program that runs as pp, you don't actually login as ppp. |
| 12:59:25 | pattieja | right |
| 12:59:33 | pattieja | but you could if you gave it a passwd, right? |
| 12:59:42 | nikos | pattieja: Security and multi-user have not been an issue yet. Please not this is v0.4, not a release version. |
| 12:59:47 | nikos | s/not/note/ |
| 13:00:18 | nikos | Hi Morn |
| 13:00:20 | pattieja | but it's stable? |
| 13:00:22 | Morn | Hi |
| 13:00:23 | pattieja | :) |
| 13:00:30 | Morn | grumbles. |
| 13:00:33 | pattieja | morning Morn |
| 13:00:56 | nikos | pattieja: stable for what? It's labelled stable relative to other options, that's all. |
| 13:01:15 | pattieja | :) |
| 13:01:29 | pattieja | It seems to work ok for what I've got installed |
| 13:01:33 | nikos | pattieja: stable means 'best we have to offer for general use' it doesn't mean complete and unchanging. |
| 13:01:49 | cworth | pattieja: yes, you could put a password on the ppp account if you would like. |
| 13:01:50 | pattieja | Except that my changes get blown away every time it boots since (I guess) the menus are being dynamically regenerated somehow |
| 13:02:16 | nikos | pattieja: Changes to what? |
| 13:02:22 | pattieja | the menus |
| 13:02:32 | pattieja | /etc/X11/blackbox/blackbox-menu |
| 13:02:33 | cworth | really, the only "multi-user support" missing is a way to authenticate using the touchscreen, (ie. selecting a user other than root to run X). |
| 13:02:52 | pattieja | that's where the [XKG]DM comes in |
| 13:03:28 | nikos | cworth: Well, that and having the packages all permissioned correctly, facilities for creating/modifying user's, home directories, etc. ;) |
| 13:04:03 | pattieja | aren't those just really scripts? |
| 13:04:05 | cworth | pattieja: yes, an xdm is the major missing piece. |
| 13:04:44 | pattieja | actually, I think KDM is probably the best login interface we've worked with, the most featurefull anyway. But of course too heavy-weight in the PDA environment. |
| 13:05:02 | pattieja | unless the Qt (mini? or whatever) could be used with it |
| 13:05:10 | pattieja | Qt-embedded |
| 13:06:31 | cworth | nikos: yeah, all those other pieces are necessary, but should be usable as-is from standard distributions such as Debian. |
| 13:07:11 | mindrape_ | werd jerkies |
| 13:14:18 | Morn | BTW: thought I share this, I was out for dinner with some friends and we were talking about PDA's and I mentioned I was going to install linux on my pocketpc and everyone just got quiet til someone said "Julia you really are a geek!" |
| 13:14:48 | nikos | Heh |
| 13:15:16 | mindrape_ | btw folks, i got a solution around the keyboard suspension!@#$ |
| 13:15:24 | mindrape_ | thanks to andrew christian and nikos of course =) |
| 13:16:51 | mindrape_ | write pm_helper script that calls start-stop-daemon -K -x /usr/bin/stowd;start-stop-daemon -S -x /usr/bin/stowd |
| 13:25:56 | mallum | jg: are you about ? |
| 13:35:50 | Morn | is back. |
| 13:42:38 | pattieja | I saw an article yesterday about a company (I think it was IBM, in fact I'm pretty sure it was) using a Compaq iPAQ with a wireless network card to troubleshoot wireless access points in order to make sure they are enabled for security and whether or not they require authentication, etc. It was an interesting looking application. |
| 13:43:03 | mindrape_ | shaGG: check out the lobes http://mindrape.upt.org :D |
| 13:43:05 | pattieja | simple menu based system that told you in color whether or not the access points were secured or not |
| 13:43:07 | mindrape_ | woops...wrong network |
| 13:43:37 | mindrape_ | pattieja: got a url handy? |
| 13:44:09 | pattieja | nope, it was in a frameset and I didn't feel like figuring out how to get the URL |
| 13:52:03 | mindrape_ | baaad frames |
| 13:57:56 | jg | mallum: I am now... |
| 13:58:24 | mallum | jg: hi, I think you already answered my question I was about to ask |
| 13:58:48 | mallum | jg: it was the host.def file - which I believe you mailed to tanstaafl |
| 13:58:53 | pattieja | try this for starters, they're not the ones with the IBM utility, but they show an iPAQ on their main page running their web-based home automation control program under (wince) WinCE. |
| 13:58:57 | pattieja | www.homeauto.com |
| 13:59:16 | jg | pattieja: It is IBM. I've tried poking at them without success to release the code. Please try at your end... |
| 14:00:04 | mindrape_ | has anyone built a battery extender, or can recommend one? or does it have to be self-built? |
| 14:01:30 | pattieja | here's the URL: http://www.research.ibm.com/gsal/wsa/ |
| 14:02:07 | pattieja | you could get one of those bike light generators and stick it on your exercise bike and ... |
| 14:03:34 | pattieja | jg: I guess the real question is whether they built their wsa app on top of another app that's out there or from scratch. |
| 14:03:41 | pattieja | If it's from scratch ... |
| 14:04:52 | jg | pattieja: dunno. Never heard from the IBM guy, so I have no idea if my mail even got to him? |
| 15:04:57 | mpakula | says hello ;o) |
| 15:06:41 | | hi |
| 15:06:41 | DragonEagle | ibot say hi |
| 15:10:49 | sjohnson | is away: lunch |
| 15:24:26 | nelson | mpakula: what was your question about pygps? |
| 15:26:54 | mpakula | nelson: in order to use it I have to specify the ip address ( probably the server with satellite infos) could you send me the list or at least few of them |
| 15:40:14 | mindrape_ | has anyone (besides ibm) use an ipaq to audit wireless networks |
| 15:40:23 | mindrape_ | this sounds like a GREAT application for ipaqs |
| 15:40:49 | mindrape_ | plug into a network, traffic analysis, stats, etc |
| 15:41:15 | pattieja | how about as a network sniffer as well, not just a wireless sniffer? |
| 15:41:55 | mindrape_ | well it should work both ways, ethernet is ethernet |
| 15:42:15 | mindrape_ | snort would be a useful applicatioln |
| 15:42:17 | mindrape_ | err application |
| 15:42:23 | pattieja | but not if you have a wireless card plugged in, I guess you'd have to switch them out and run a different program |
| 15:42:39 | pattieja | cool |
| 15:44:15 | mindrape_ | i wouldn't think there would be that much of a difference, set ethernet device into premiscious mode, start disassembling packets, it's just wireless ethernet doesn't enjoy the restrictive control of wired networks |
| 15:45:34 | mindrape_ | i like how they concentrated on being more of a mangement device rather than a technical by adopting a familiar metaphor, red stop, green go |
| 15:46:39 | pattieja | :) |
| 15:47:03 | mindrape_ | WSA just sounds like a collection of existing tools, nmap, snort, arp |
| 15:49:09 | mindrape_ | use nmap to discover access points, probe for services, use snort to determine encryption method? (maybe much simplier), but definately to analyze traffic, track clients, and arp to do ethernet fingerprinting, and a combination of all 3 to do much more robust finger printing |
| 15:49:28 | mindrape_ | WSA currently runs on Linux, on either a notebook, or iPAQ PDA. We |
| 15:49:28 | mindrape_ | currently support the Cisco/Aironet pcmcia 802.11 cards, either the old |
| 15:49:28 | mindrape_ | Prism I based cards, or the current Prism II based cards. On the iPAQ, |
| 15:49:29 | mindrape_ | we are using the Familiar Linux distribution, with the fltk library, and |
| 15:49:29 | mindrape_ | on thinkpads, we are using RedHat 7.1. |
| 15:49:30 | mindrape_ | haw |
| 15:49:35 | mindrape_ | werd on using the familiar distro |
| 15:49:44 | mindrape_ | pattieja: great link =) |
| 15:50:10 | pattieja | np |
| 15:51:28 | mindrape_ | oooooo gps via serial? |
| 15:51:56 | bhimaji | gps via serial is the normal way. |
| 15:52:14 | bhimaji | in fact, the GPS PCMCIA cards I have seen actually look like serial ports :) |
| 15:52:55 | mindrape_ | i never use gps, but becoming interested in combining it with another project i'm working on |
| 15:54:21 | bhimaji | GPS is fairly easy to work with. |
| 15:54:46 | bhimaji | the most annoying thing is that there are lots of irritating cables to play with. |
| 15:54:57 | bhimaji | ie: every GPS receiver uses a different connector. |
| 15:55:09 | bhimaji | I am going to make an ipaq to Garmin cable though. |
| 15:56:26 | pattieja | are there PCMCIA-based GPS cards? |
| 15:56:38 | bhimaji | yes. but they are ungodly expensive. |
| 15:57:02 | mindrape_ | bhima: would you happen to know where i can find a serial ribbon cable for the ipaq's interface, i like to mount my ipaq sideways on muh keyboard |
| 15:57:08 | pattieja | hmm. Mount iPAQ to kneepad or yoke while flying. |
| 15:57:48 | bhimaji | I am going to be ordering some ipaq cables soon. I think it will cost me around $10 for ipaq connector to ipaq connector. |
| 15:58:07 | bhimaji | it doesn't have all pins wired, but it does have serial data. |
| 15:58:21 | bhimaji | need to find out about the sockets. |
| 15:58:37 | bhimaji | right now I have a custom cut piece of foam to hold my dual sleeve ipaq. |
| 15:58:41 | mindrape_ | someone mentioned that there should be a way to seperate the usb and serial wires, but does such a cable exist? |
| 15:58:48 | mindrape_ | i like to be able to use my keyboard while plugged in via usb |
| 15:58:50 | bhimaji | and on monday I get 8 x 512Mbit DRAM chips :) |
| 15:59:05 | bhimaji | the USB and serial pins are totally separate. |
| 15:59:16 | bhimaji | Nobody makes a cable for this, but it's trivial electrically. |
| 15:59:39 | bhimaji | I think that a desk dock would be the best thing. |
| 15:59:43 | mindrape_ | not into electronics unforunately =( |
| 15:59:45 | bhimaji | I need to get some ipaq sockets. |
| 15:59:57 | bhimaji | ahh. and I'm drooling over digital storage scopes :) |
| 16:00:12 | bhimaji | would love a hot air rework and DSO at home. |
| 16:00:16 | bhimaji | but I have access to them at work. |
| 16:00:42 | bhimaji | I am thinking of trying to produce this stuff for other people. |
| 16:00:50 | bhimaji | need time though. |
| 16:01:04 | bhimaji | the ipaq connectors can be reworked if you are careful. |
| 16:01:15 | mindrape_ | i've been doing reflashes for ppl (familiar/qpe) |
| 16:01:20 | bhimaji | it's not possible to buy them without cables for less than 6000 quantity. |
| 16:01:51 | bhimaji | mmm. friend just bought an ipaq. gonna upgrade his to 128MB when it's practical. |
| 16:02:03 | bhimaji | I also just (in a slightly failed manner) hacked my audio connector. |
| 16:02:09 | bhimaji | havne't had a chance to check what went wrong. |
| 16:02:17 | bhimaji | but basically, my goal is: left audio always goes to speaker. |
| 16:02:23 | bhimaji | right audio always goes to jack. |
| 16:02:36 | bhimaji | left audio channel on the jack is for microphone. |
| 16:03:36 | mindrape_ | how difficult is it to upgrade the memory? |
| 16:03:52 | mindrape_ | i wonder how big apache is for the arm |
| 16:04:14 | bhimaji | how skilled are you with a hor air rework station? |
| 16:04:23 | bhimaji | you need to desoldertwo ships. |
| 16:04:31 | bhimaji | with a $600 soldering station minimum. |
| 16:04:37 | mindrape_ | probably not skilled enuf |
| 16:05:32 | bhimaji | it's not hard to do with the right tools. |
| 16:05:49 | bhimaji | without the right tools, I would consider it virtually impossible. |
| 16:06:04 | bhimaji | a hot air rework soldering iron just shoots hot air over the pins. |
| 16:06:21 | bhimaji | you use a vacuum tool to touch the chip. hot air melts the solder. |
| 16:06:24 | bhimaji | and you lift the chip up. |
| 16:06:34 | bhimaji | then you put a new chip there, and hold it inthe right place. |
| 16:06:38 | bhimaji | hot air around the pins. |
| 16:06:48 | bhimaji | good magnifier/microscope to examine the pins. |
| 16:07:08 | mindrape_ | well that would probably exclude me doing it :D |
| 16:08:09 | pattieja | is away: getting lunch |
| 16:09:48 | bhimaji | so how much would you pay for a keyboard extension cable? |
| 16:14:04 | mindrape_ | what would you consider fair? |
| 16:16:20 | bhimaji | I don't know. I need to find out how easy it is to get the sockets. |
| 16:16:40 | bhimaji | ie: the sockets that are identical to those used in the ipaq. don't know how available they are. |
| 16:16:43 | bhimaji | the plugs I can get. |
| 16:17:01 | bhimaji | serial only is easy, serial+USB would require more work. |
| 16:17:16 | bhimaji | I'll figure it out, see what can be acquired and post. |
| 16:19:29 | mindrape_ | there are others in here that would be interested in such a cable |
| 16:19:53 | sjohnson | is back (gone 01:09:05) |
| 16:20:01 | mindrape_ | really surprised targus didn't include such support in their keyboards |
| 16:20:44 | nikos | is away: Service Call |
| 16:30:02 | pattieja | is back (gone 00:21:53) |
| 16:47:29 | nelson | mpakula: In order to use pygps, you have to have a gps receiver running gpsd. The IP address that pygps wants defaults to 127.0.0.1 because presumably you're going to want the gpsd running on the ipaq you're holding. |
| 16:48:09 | mpakula | nelson: tnx |
| 17:24:15 | nikos | is back |
| 17:26:28 | mallum | is away: getting food ... |
| 18:38:10 | jg | nelson: do I have a prayer of getting things to work with the GPS against a window |
| 18:38:17 | jg | (with south facing exposure)? |
| 18:47:22 | nelson | jg: Yes, as long as it doesn't have a metallic coating. |
| 18:47:49 | nelson | My office window does, so in order to get any signal, I have to hang it out the window. |
| 18:48:02 | nelson | We have a metal roof, so needless to say nothing gets through THAT. |
| 18:48:03 | pattieja | wow |
| 18:48:34 | nelson | jg: I've had reasonable success in airplanes holding it up against the window. |
| 18:48:38 | pattieja | so GPS doesn't go through things? |
| 18:48:53 | DragonEagle_ml | is away: helping move |
| 18:49:12 | nelson | pattieja: it's a radio signal. Anything other than free space attenuates it. It's just a question of how much. |
| 18:49:16 | pattieja | is it sort of like the signal used for satellite TV, or does it do well in rain? |
| 18:49:23 | pattieja | ahh |
| 18:50:44 | nelson | I don't remember what frequency range GPS signals use. If it's in the 2.4Ghz range, it'll get absorbed by rain. Presumably, since the military might have to fiight in the rain, it isn't absorbed by rain. |
| 18:51:03 | pattieja | hehe |
| 18:52:20 | BBrox | 'The GPS L1 carrier frequency is 1575.42 MHz' |
| 18:52:44 | nelson | So it's probably pretty safe from rain. |
| 18:53:02 | BBrox | After, there seems to be now 5 'L-bands' |
| 18:53:51 | pattieja | yeah, it wouldn't do too good to have planes flying around that are dependent on GPS, when it rains, going "ahhh, tower, where am i?" |
| 18:54:03 | pattieja | kaBOOM! |
| 18:56:23 | sjohnson | pattieja: The thing that is most annoying for blocking GPS signals is leaves. |
| 18:57:21 | pattieja | they do? |
| 18:57:36 | pattieja | then how could you ever hope to navigate your way out of a forest? |
| 18:57:38 | nikos | Yep, it's a problem in the woods. |
| 18:58:24 | sjohnson | pattieja: Climbs a tree or find a clearing. :) |
| 18:58:58 | pattieja | or fires an antenna above the tree tops :) |
| 18:59:45 | sjohnson | pattieja: That closer to the true then you know. |
| 18:59:54 | sjohnson | s/true/truth/ |
| 19:00:29 | nelson | Actually, I was confluencing with Dave Lawrence in the Adirondacks, and his Garmin got a signal most of the time. |
| 19:00:50 | pattieja | remind me where that's located? |
| 19:00:51 | nelson | My ipaq gps crapped out. I suspect that the Earthmate isn't comparable to modern technology. |
| 19:01:08 | nelson | pattieja: Imagine a state park bigger than vermont. |
| 19:01:22 | nelson | pattieja: Now put it in New York State. |
| 19:01:36 | sjohnson | During the Vietnam ware, Slinkys were sometimes use are antennas for radios. They were easy to throw high up into the trees. |
| 19:01:42 | pattieja | is that where it's located? cool |
| 19:01:48 | nelson | There's only one place it could go. |
| 19:02:34 | sjohnson | s/ware/war/ |
| 19:06:27 | nikos | is away: Service Call |
| 19:40:30 | mpakula | nelson: do you have on your page some infos about howto build tha .ipk so it will set up the PATH or even DISPLAY ? |
| 19:49:57 | DragonEagle_ml | is back |
| 19:52:37 | nelson | mpakula: path and display should be set up |
| 19:55:29 | mpakula | nelson: I'm repackaging videoconferencing tools so they will install on my flash card /mnt/hda I want to set ipk so it will automatically add PATH=$PATH:/mnt/hda to env |
| 20:00:53 | Kero | videoconferencing on a backpaq? |
| 20:00:58 | Kero | cool |
| 20:02:12 | mpakula | Kero: can't send video from iPAQ yet, but I hope that is going to be pretty soon |
| 20:02:51 | cworth | mpakula: please don't try to change PATH/DISPLAY from your package. |
| 20:04:29 | mpakula | cworth: ? That would simplify my stuff ( that is just for my own use ) |
| 20:07:46 | nikos | is back |
| 20:08:02 | mpakula | cworth: one more question: while ipkg install 'my package' it creates IPKG_BUILD and CONTROL directories in / directory and all the rest puts to /mnt/hda/ where i want it ? |
| 20:12:06 | cworth | mpakula: I'm afraid I don't understand your question. |
| 20:12:56 | cworth | mpakula: "ipkg install" does not creat directories named "IPKG_BUILD" or "CONTROL", (unless your package has directories with those names I suppose). |
| 20:23:45 | mpakula | cworth: I do have CF memory card /mnt/hda and I build package that installs it self to that flash and I want .ipk to set PATH to /mnt/hda |
| 20:43:23 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/images/ipaq-aug22.jpg |
| 20:45:35 | pattieja | mandrake: what's that? |
| 20:45:46 | mandrake | my ipaq :) |
| 20:45:55 | pattieja | and how come the menus say Debian now instead of Familiar? |
| 20:46:05 | mandrake | it's not running familiar anymore |
| 20:46:21 | pattieja | oh |
| 20:46:41 | pattieja | what's the speak button? which application provides that? |
| 20:46:49 | mandrake | that's a little app I wrote today |
| 20:46:56 | pattieja | text-to-speech? |
| 20:46:57 | mandrake | uses flite to speak |
| 20:46:59 | mandrake | yeah |
| 20:47:03 | mandrake | high quality synthesis |
| 20:47:09 | mandrake | I'm demoing that at LWCE on the ipaq |
| 20:47:28 | pattieja | cool |
| 20:47:41 | pattieja | is it available in an ipkg package? |
| 20:47:56 | mandrake | nup |
| 20:48:02 | pattieja | :( |
| 20:48:07 | mandrake | right now the high quality synthetic voices take ~100 megs or so apiece. |
| 20:48:12 | pattieja | ouch |
| 20:48:13 | mandrake | but run realtime on the ipaq |
| 20:48:21 | pattieja | need big disk |
| 20:48:27 | mandrake | human-sounding voices are not small. |
| 20:48:40 | mandrake | these do not sound computerized. |
| 20:48:52 | pattieja | sort of like Star Trek? |
| 20:48:53 | pattieja | :) |
| 20:48:58 | mindrape_ | use robotic sounding ones, and rename your ipaq to WOPR |
| 20:49:01 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/demo_voice.wav |
| 20:49:05 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/demo_2.wav |
| 20:49:08 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/demo_3.wav |
| 20:49:10 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/demo_4.wav |
| 20:49:12 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/demo_5.wav |
| 20:49:14 | mandrake | http://mandrake.net/demo_6.wav |
| 20:49:21 | mandrake | those are just a few examples |
| 20:49:36 | mandrake | I don't have all those voices on my ipaq, I only have a 1 gb microdrive on it |
| 20:50:00 | Morn | the microdrive works well? I thought about getting that |
| 20:50:16 | mandrake | it drains battery pretty quickly however |
| 20:50:18 | mandrake | even when turned off |
| 20:50:23 | mandrake | which is sad |
| 20:50:27 | mandrake | I need to figure out a good way around that |
| 20:50:33 | mindrape_ | i notice my targus keyboard drains the battery rather quickly |
| 20:50:40 | mindrape_ | any recommendations on a good battery extender? |
| 20:52:22 | pattieja | what? you didn't like my exercise bike idea? |
| 20:52:44 | mindrape_ | i have no legs, don't be so mean! |
| 20:52:58 | pattieja | I am so sorry! |
| 20:53:07 | pattieja | begs for forgiveness |
| 20:53:09 | mindrape_ | i'm joking B-> |
| 20:53:22 | pattieja | hence your handle, eh? |
| 20:53:28 | mindrape_ | HEH |
| 20:53:29 | pattieja | hmmpph. |
| 20:55:24 | sjohnson | mandrake: Wow! Speech synthesis has come a long way since the Amiga. |
| 20:57:16 | mandrake | sjohnson: it's okay, no one has speech synthesis of this sort of footprint but us right now :) |
| 20:57:25 | mandrake | at&t has a comparable engine now, but it requires massive servers |
| 20:57:28 | mandrake | whereas I'm running it on my ipaq :) |
| 21:00:14 | work_sjohnson | is away: headed home |
| 21:03:20 | mindrape_ | mandrake: wot about jupiter? |
| 21:03:38 | mindrape_ | wot does it use? |
| 21:20:39 | pattieja | mandrake: I've gotta go, but that's scary! |
| 21:20:44 | pattieja | sounds really neat |
| 21:20:59 | pattieja | is away: bible study |
