| 00:24:54 | Jimmn | Hi all... |
| 00:25:21 | Jimmn | anyone know if it's possible to connect via the IR port to a cell phone for modem connectioN? |
| 00:25:35 | Jimmn | using Familiar of course. :) |
| 00:25:44 | Jimmn | or Intimate apps.. or sumthin. |
| 00:25:48 | Jimmn | Not there yet... |
| 02:27:12 | Jimmn | re: |
| 02:28:21 | dneuer | a7r: hey; give me about 20 minutes, then we'll discuss, OK? |
| 02:29:12 | a7r- | dneuer: cool. |
| 02:29:55 | Jimmn | has anyone gotten IR running for cell phone communications? |
| 02:30:01 | a7r- | yup. |
| 02:32:05 | Jimmn | So I CAN use the ir port as a modem comm port. Is there any HOWTO on this deal? I'm trying to decide whether or not to open this CF modem I just bought... :| |
| 02:32:21 | a7r- | there're some docs on the net.. hit google for best results. |
| 02:32:30 | a7r- | you should be able to do it using ipkgs that are available.. |
| 02:32:40 | Jimmn | I'd *like* to wait and just upgrade my cell phone to get this... :) good excuse anyhow... |
| 02:32:41 | a7r- | I've done it with a Nokia 8290 on PacBell, here in the US. |
| 02:33:11 | Jimmn | Good, I'm glad!! Now I can dump this $100 CF modem... |
| 02:34:14 | MalteseFalcon | How does one go about creating a bootstrap file? |
| 02:35:19 | Jimmn | hmm, 14.4 though right? Maybe I should keep it to use 56k |
| 02:35:30 | Jimmn | use mobile only when necessary :| |
| 02:38:19 | a7r- | Jimmn: 9600 max, for me.. |
| 02:38:42 | Jimmn | hmmm... does anyone know if the Targus 56k CF modem works under linux? |
| 02:38:54 | Jimmn | I purchased it but I'm curious if it'll work.. |
| 02:39:24 | Jimmn | Winmodem? |
| 02:39:45 | a7r- | It's probably just a serial port interface to the internal modem.. should work fine. |
| 02:40:06 | Jimmn | I hoped so since my pcmcia card modem worked... |
| 02:40:32 | Jimmn | but it wasn't on the compatability list, as far as I saw... |
| 02:46:58 | Jimmn | bbl |
| 02:53:28 | dneuer | is back (gone 03:11:55) |
| 03:21:58 | gmkp | Anyone is awake here? |
| 03:22:04 | a7r- | yup. |
| 03:22:07 | gmkp | Hi, |
| 03:22:16 | gmkp | I have a question regarding kernel issue |
| 03:22:24 | gmkp | Can you help? |
| 03:22:30 | a7r- | Depends on the issue. |
| 03:22:59 | gmkp | Well, I compiled (with toolchain) and installed 2.4.7-rmk3-np1-hh6 for mono ipaq |
| 03:23:21 | gmkp | When I boot for the first time after installing it, it boots fine. |
| 03:23:50 | gmkp | But the second time it says "Uncompressing Linux...." then "invalid compressed format (err=1)" then -- System halted |
| 03:23:53 | gmkp | and hangs. |
| 03:24:06 | gmkp | Any idea what could be wrong |
| 03:24:24 | a7r- | is your partitioning right? |
| 03:24:34 | a7r- | did you possibly overwrite part of the kernel? |
| 03:25:16 | gmkp | Yes, the partition is right and I didn't overwrite it (positive). |
| 03:26:16 | gmkp | Let me check again. |
| 03:26:21 | gmkp | Yes, things are fine. |
| 03:26:55 | dneuer | gmkp: I saw that with Luigi G earlier today. After you flash the kernel, do 'pflash 0x80000 0xC0000 1' (assuming that's how your kernel partition is set up) |
| 03:26:59 | gmkp | And as I said, first time after installing everything, it works fine. |
| 03:27:15 | gmkp | dneuer: Thanks a lot. Will do that. |
| 03:27:20 | dneuer | gmkp: The kernel appears to be corrupting the kernel partition for some reason |
| 03:27:21 | a7r- | gmkp: the fact that the first time works makes me think something is overwriting it.. |
| 03:27:47 | gmkp | dneuer: BTW, I sent a mail to you earlier, reporting success with qpe (although you may not be interested in it). |
| 03:28:00 | gmkp | dneuer: If others inquire about qpe, you can forward them to me. |
| 03:28:07 | dneuer | gmkp: please also email me the details of bootldr and kernel version so I can investigate. You're probably running hh6 built for mono, right? |
| 03:28:42 | gmkp | dneuer: Yes, I am using hh6 for mono. |
| 03:29:25 | dneuer | gmkp: OK, well protecting the kernel partition is a workaround for now. Remember that to upgrade your kernel after you do that, you'll have to remember to unprotect the kernel partition |
| 03:30:01 | gmkp | dneuer: How do I unprotect it? By marking it 0 (the last number)? |
| 03:30:14 | dneuer | gmkp: Honestly, I'm not sure why that even works, because my understanding was that the kernel ignores the protection bits, but tested it with Luigi and it works |
| 03:30:39 | gmkp | dneuer: As long as it works, I am happy! |
| 03:31:04 | gmkp | dneuer: But just to clarify, I should do "qflash 0x80000 0xC0000 0" to unprotect it right? |
| 03:31:25 | dneuer | gmkp: yup |
| 03:31:25 | gmkp | Sorry, is it pflash or qflash? |
| 03:31:27 | beeblebrox | gmkp: hi there... you got qpe working? |
| 03:31:33 | dneuer | pflash |
| 03:31:52 | gmkp | dneuer: Thats good. Will try this and if I have any problems, will let you know. |
| 03:32:02 | dneuer | qflash is "query flash", pflash is "protect flash" |
| 03:32:21 | gmkp | dneuer: Right. |
| 03:32:24 | dneuer | really, really wishes someone would pay him for this s*&t |
| 03:32:44 | a7r- | dneuer: that makes two of us.. |
| 03:32:53 | gmkp | beeblebrox: Yes, I got qpe 1.4 working. |
| 03:33:29 | gmkp | beeblebrox: There is a bug in qpe (rather simple to fix), but I will mail them today and see if they will release a fixed version soon. |
| 03:33:55 | beeblebrox | gmkp: cool... I would want to run qpe after i install linux. |
| 03:33:59 | dneuer | gmkp: can you test that fix for me before I sign off? |
| 03:34:10 | gmkp | beeblebrox: If in the meanwhile you want a solution, either I can tell you what to do or I can send you the ipk qt-embedded |
| 03:34:20 | gmkp | beeblebrox: hang on, I got to test something else. |
| 03:34:30 | gmkp | dneuer: will do right away; |
| 03:35:08 | beeblebrox | gmkp: thanks, but i havent been able to install linux yet... still waiting for a serial cable |
| 03:35:31 | dneuer | beeblebrox: you're in India? Singapore? |
| 03:35:39 | beeblebrox | dneuer: india. |
| 03:35:59 | dneuer | beeblebrox: right. Just trying to keep my memory straight |
| 03:36:46 | beeblebrox | dneuer: how is the patch you were talking about going? the one the compaq guy was doing? oh, btw, hi. |
| 03:37:22 | dneuer | beeblebrox: well, last Thursday he told me it was 80% complete, but it still hasn't hit the tree |
| 03:38:14 | dneuer | beeblebrox: but then, if there's one thing I've learned in software development, software module completion should only be measured in binary terms. It's either 100% done or 0% done. |
| 03:38:42 | dneuer | I mean, done is done, right? |
| 03:38:58 | gmkp | beeblebrox: where in India are you from? |
| 03:39:12 | dneuer | Kind of a corollary of the 80/20 rule |
| 03:39:24 | beeblebrox | dneuer: yea, i agree... assignig a % to work done is really tricky. |
| 03:39:36 | beeblebrox | gmkp: delhi/pune. |
| 03:39:55 | gmkp | dneuer: I booted for the first time, it worked. I will reboot and try again. |
| 03:40:07 | beeblebrox | gmkp: you from india? |
| 03:40:23 | gmkp | beeblebrox: Originally; now I am in NY. |
| 03:40:36 | dneuer | gmkp: do me a favor and try it a few times, plus a hard reset |
| 03:40:43 | dneuer | gmkp: where in NY? |
| 03:40:45 | beeblebrox | gmkp: cool... you are the first indian i have met on this channel! |
| 03:40:53 | gmkp | dneuer: I am not sure what is the problem now. It stuck at ppp driver initialization. |
| 03:41:14 | gmkp | dneuer: I guess something is amiss. If you are in a hurry, go ahead; I will see what is the problem. |
| 03:41:21 | gmkp | dneuer: In Stony Brook, Long Island. |
| 03:41:40 | dneuer | gmkp: work at the lab? |
| 03:41:49 | gmkp | beeblebrox: In case you are curious, I am from near Tirupati, but worked in Pune for a while. |
| 03:41:58 | dneuer | has relatives and friend literally *all* over LI |
| 03:42:10 | gmkp | dneuer: I am a student at SUNY Stony Brook. |
| 03:42:29 | gmkp | dneuer: So are you visiting any around here? |
| 03:42:32 | beeblebrox | gmkp: i have just passed out of college... just joined my first job in pune. |
| 03:43:07 | dneuer | gmkp: OK. Relatives in Pt. Wash, Glen Cove, Locust Vally, Fairview; friend from Syosset, Mt. Sinai |
| 03:43:27 | dneuer | wait, not Fairview, Plainsomething |
| 03:43:40 | gmkp | dneuer: Hmm, Mt. Sinai and Syosset are real close. |
| 03:43:50 | gmkp | dneuer: White Plains? |
| 03:44:07 | dneuer | gmkp: no, Mt. Sinai is out on the Island, near Port Jefferson |
| 03:44:30 | gmkp | dneuer: And Stony Brook is indistinguishable from Port Jeff. |
| 03:44:39 | dneuer | gmkp: it's that far out? |
| 03:44:50 | dneuer | wow |
| 03:45:03 | gmkp | dneuer: Yes, Port Jeff is around 3 miles from where I am sitting. |
| 03:45:12 | MalteseFalcon | I know it's pretty indistuishable from here in Connecticut across the Sound. |
| 03:45:22 | dneuer | ah. Well, you shoudl meet my friend Dave Bretherton |
| 03:45:42 | gmkp | dneuer: Sure, where does he live? |
| 03:46:44 | gmkp | dneuer: By any chance do you have Luigi's email address? He gave me but I don't know where I kept. |
| 03:46:53 | gmkp | dneuer: He was real keen on getting qpe. |
| 03:48:23 | dneuer | luigi@gangitano.it |
| 03:50:06 | gmkp | dneuer: Thanks. |
| 03:51:07 | dneuer | no problem. Please keep testing and send me a description of everything that's going on via email, OK? |
| 03:51:24 | gmkp | dneuer: Sure. |
| 03:51:27 | dneuer | gmkp: I'm trying to help a7r get stuff in shape for .5 |
| 03:52:01 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: Oka. |
| 03:53:03 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: If I compile my own kernel, do I need to do anything more than just a "load kernel" from boot>? |
| 03:56:21 | DragonEagle | is away: just away |
| 03:58:14 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Hi, sorry, I didn't notice. |
| 03:58:29 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Depends on your patition and modules. |
| 03:58:40 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Usually, you need to at lease update modules also. |
| 04:00:02 | MalteseFalcon | Well... I have a 2.4.7-hh2 modules, and I just compiled a 2.4.7-hh6 kernel |
| 04:00:34 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Then you must also load modules before you reboot. |
| 04:00:54 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: It is not a serious problem not to load modules though. |
| 04:01:19 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: But when you reboot with hh6, transfer the modules onto ipaq. |
| 04:01:56 | MalteseFalcon | What was the boot problem you were having. I just tried a reboot.... with problems |
| 04:02:29 | gmkp | I had problems "uncompress" failure or something like that with "-- System halted" |
| 04:03:16 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Yes... I'm getting a: "ran out of input data" error... with a "system halted" |
| 04:03:35 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Welcome to the band wagon! |
| 04:03:45 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: What model do you have? |
| 04:04:53 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: a 3135 |
| 04:05:05 | gmkp | MalteseFlacon: Where did you get it from? |
| 04:05:19 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Staples :) |
| 04:05:28 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: When did you take bath? |
| 04:05:39 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: LOL, just kidding. |
| 04:05:46 | MalteseFalcon | 2 weeks ago... |
| 04:06:06 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: And for around $80? |
| 04:06:07 | MalteseFalcon | I got the thing for less than $20.00 (incl. rebate) ;) |
| 04:06:40 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Wholy cow. I bought one from Stamford Staples center and returned it and they gave me $50 more! |
| 04:06:52 | gmkp | Did you buy from there? |
| 04:07:09 | MalteseFalcon | When I gave the girl the coupon number for the $40.00 off a $200.00 purchase, but she gave me 40_%_ off. |
| 04:07:22 | MalteseFalcon | A store in Norwalk. |
| 04:07:38 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Damn, I wasn't THAT lucky. |
| 04:07:38 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: (MalFal works in Norwalk) |
| 04:07:51 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Okay, now to the business. |
| 04:08:19 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: If you joined after I talked to dneuer, then there is supposedly a solution. |
| 04:08:31 | MalteseFalcon | Well.. I _do_ have a big kernel (compiled in the few modules I wanted), but is _should_ still fit. |
| 04:08:46 | gmkp | MalteseFlacon: After flashing kernel, you are supposed to do "pflash 0x80000 0xC0000 1" |
| 04:08:51 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: And it _does_ seem to load on, with verify. |
| 04:08:59 | gmkp | But for me it is a no go. |
| 04:09:24 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Well, this is in addition to the verify... thing. |
| 04:09:46 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: OK... let me try that. |
| 04:09:55 | gmkp | MalteseFalcon: Let me know if it works. |
| 04:10:19 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: OK... hold on a minute... |
| 04:16:34 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Nope... now it won't boot at all. :( |
| 04:17:11 | gmkp | MalFal: Where does it stop? |
| 04:18:18 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Nowhere... all it gives me is a boot prompt |
| 04:18:43 | gmkp | MalFal then there is something else is wrong with you! |
| 04:19:38 | gmkp | MalFal it should at least do "Uncompressing ..." |
| 04:20:04 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Tell me about it... but I didn;t get this new problem until I did the partion protection. |
| 04:20:23 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: I'm loading back the original kernel to see if it's OK |
| 04:21:26 | gmkp | MalFal: The protection sholdn't change anything. |
| 04:21:55 | gmkp | MalFal: You probably can't load another kernel until you unprotect flash. |
| 04:22:16 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Well, the old kernel still loads. I'm gonna try it again. |
| 04:22:39 | gmkp | MalFal: wait a min; which bootloader are you using? |
| 04:22:52 | MalteseFalcon | I thought of that, but again, it never hurts to try again (once you verify you can recover!) :) |
| 04:23:00 | MalteseFalcon | 2.14.15 |
| 04:23:16 | MalteseFalcon | Hmmm... don't tell me, I need a newer bootldr. |
| 04:23:39 | gmkp | MalFal: No, you don't need a new loader, I was confused when you said |
| 04:24:06 | gmkp | MalFal you will try old kernel; I thought you have 2.15.x, which supports loading kernels on the fly. |
| 04:25:11 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: No.. I have 2.14.15, not 2.15.14 |
| 04:25:38 | gmkp | MalFal: then you need to unprotect flash before loading a different kernel. |
| 04:25:43 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: if you don't protect the kernel partition, does it boot successfully once, then fail on subsequent attempts |
| 04:25:44 | dneuer_ignoring_world | ? |
| 04:26:40 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Well... I need to get it to boot the _first_ time to answer that question! :) |
| 04:27:18 | gmkp | MalFal: From what I heard, I thought you had the same problem as I had (booting once, but not again). |
| 04:27:31 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: OK, that answers my question, so you haven't protected the kernel partition yet, right? |
| 04:28:19 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: I didn't get much further; while booting, it stops after loading PPP driver. |
| 04:28:22 | dneuer_ignoring_world | OMG. The Italian Prime Minister is insane |
| 04:28:30 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: So I can't even login. |
| 04:28:53 | dneuer_ignoring_world | " Breaking ranks with allies reaching out to the Muslim world, Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday said Western civilization is superior to Islam. He also said he hopes the West conquers Islamic civilization. |
| 04:28:53 | dneuer_ignoring_world | " |
| 04:28:54 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: What is with Italian PM? |
| 04:29:30 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: Are you ignoring this world and going into another world? |
| 04:29:36 | dneuer_ignoring_world | Sounds like an immediate Parliamentary vote of no confidence is in order in Italy |
| 04:29:59 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Well.. I just noticed that when I load the kernel, it erases sectors A0000 - 100000, but write A0000 - 110000 |
| 04:30:21 | dneuer_ignoring_world | I was trying to ignore IRC, but when so many people are having problems w/ my images, that I kinda had to step up and help |
| 04:30:37 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: do a 'partition show for me' |
| 04:30:45 | dneuer_ignoring_world | oops: 'partition show' |
| 04:30:54 | dneuer_ignoring_world | nix the 'for me' |
| 04:31:35 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: Actually 'partition show for me' also works. |
| 04:31:35 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: those addresses look very wrong |
| 04:31:48 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: 4 partitions: bootldr, params, kernel and root |
| 04:31:50 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: Like 'who am i' |
| 04:32:33 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: what's the full output of 'partition show'? |
| 04:32:40 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: kernel partition info is: base: 00080000 |
| 04:33:00 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: size: 000C0000 |
| 04:33:22 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: flags: 00000000 |
| 04:34:47 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: what is the command you're giving to load the kernel? |
| 04:35:43 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: boot> load kernel |
| 04:36:03 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: and you didn't protect the kernel partition? |
| 04:37:47 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Right... I did a: pflash 0x80000 0xC0000 0 |
| 04:39:17 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: you are trying to load a kernel you built yourself? |
| 04:40:21 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Yes |
| 04:41:34 | dneuer_ignoring_world | what's the size of the image? |
| 04:42:59 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: 647388 Sep 26 17:06 zImage-2.4.7-hh6-mono1 |
| 04:43:32 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: that should fit; try doing a 'eflash kernel', then try the 'load kernel' again |
| 04:43:33 | MalteseFalcon | I know.. it IS kinda big, but I believe the partition is almost 750K |
| 04:43:44 | dneuer_ignoring_world | partition is 728K |
| 04:44:04 | dneuer_ignoring_world | no, 762 |
| 04:44:38 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Yes.. that's what I calculated. (0x140000) |
| 04:44:54 | dneuer_ignoring_world | 768K |
| 04:45:15 | dneuer_ignoring_world | math is not my strong suit |
| 04:46:17 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: I use kcalc! :) reloading kernel now.. |
| 04:47:14 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Shall I pflash after I reload? |
| 04:47:54 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: (done) |
| 04:49:49 | MalteseFalcon | dneuer_ignoring_world: Same thing... it just keeps going back to a boot prompt. |
| 04:50:29 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: what boot params are you giving? |
| 05:00:44 | MalteseFalcon | beeblebrox: linuxargs=noinitrd root=/dev/mtdblock3 init=/linuxrc console=ttySA0 mem=16M |
| 05:01:51 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: try root=/dev/mtdblock/3 |
| 05:02:05 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: or, no.. that wouldnt help. if the kernel is not loaded... |
| 05:02:12 | MalteseFalcon | :) |
| 05:02:39 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: it doesnt even try to uncompress the kernel? |
| 05:02:46 | gmkp | Even otherwise, the h3100 kernels don't have devfs, so /dev/mtdblock/x doesn't help. |
| 05:02:56 | beeblebrox | gmkp: ah.. i see. |
| 05:03:27 | MalteseFalcon | Nope |
| 05:03:31 | beeblebrox | gmkp: but this is a custom compiled kernel... so, it might have devfs? |
| 05:04:02 | gmkp | He must have used h3100-familiar as the base, which doesn't include devfs. Unless he specifically changed it otherwise. |
| 05:04:20 | MalteseFalcon | beeblebrox: I used the cvs default config for the 3100-familiar |
| 05:04:51 | gmkp | MalFal, the problem is not root=whatever. That matters when kernel is loaded and initilaized some things. |
| 05:04:57 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: No.. I didn't change any devfs settings in the kernel config |
| 05:05:13 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: anyways, it doesnt matter unless you get the kernel to lead first |
| 05:05:22 | gmkp | MalFal, if you didn't even get some initilization messages, the problem is elsewhere. |
| 05:05:45 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: have you tried a prebuilt kernel image? see if that works. |
| 05:06:11 | gmkp | MalFal, sorry to repeat, but exactly what happens when you type "boot" after you have loaded both kernel and root? |
| 05:07:58 | MalteseFalcon | beeblebrox: pre-builts work fine |
| 05:08:23 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: nothing... nada... it just gives me back the boot prompt. |
| 05:08:29 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: ah.. so the problem is in your compilation... |
| 05:08:45 | MalteseFalcon | I guess. |
| 05:09:02 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: what size is the prebuilt? and what is your image's size? |
| 05:09:15 | gmkp | MalFal, are you using toolchain or skiff? |
| 05:09:33 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: also, is your toolchail properly configured? tru compiling a hello world, and check if it works. |
| 05:11:01 | gmkp | MalFal, if you doubt your toolchain, use skiff. |
| 05:11:48 | beeblebrox | gmkp: where do you get the kernel code from? |
| 05:12:18 | gmkp | From cvs. |
| 05:13:14 | beeblebrox | gmkp: ok, i used the cvs too.. just wanted to make sure it is the most current |
| 05:13:54 | gmkp | beeblebrox: I thought you said you are still waiting for serial cable? |
| 05:14:24 | beeblebrox | gmkp: yes, i am.. but that cant stop me from downloading the kernel code, can it ? ;) |
| 05:14:28 | gmkp | beeblebrox: All this in preperation. |
| 05:14:35 | gmkp | beeblebrox: Oh boy! |
| 05:14:42 | beeblebrox | gmkp: yea :) |
| 05:14:56 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MF's problem is solved |
| 05:15:06 | gmkp | HOW? |
| 05:15:11 | MalteseFalcon | <=- schmuck |
| 05:15:15 | dneuer_ignoring_world | wrong boot command |
| 05:15:25 | gmkp | WHAT THE ... |
| 05:15:34 | MalteseFalcon | (but an ever-learning schmuck!) :) |
| 05:16:19 | dneuer_ignoring_world | MalteseFalcon: I'll make a list of all the dumb things I've done, but it'll take me a few years, and I'll need to type pretty small in order to fit it on the worlds existing paper supply |
| 05:16:22 | gmkp | MalFal, I am curious, what are you doing anyway? |
| 05:16:51 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: What do you mean? |
| 05:17:17 | gmkp | MalFal, I mean, what exactly *were* you doing? |
| 05:17:53 | MalteseFalcon | I was loading the kernel, then doing either a "reset" from the boot prompt, or a hard reboot |
| 05:18:36 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: In case you are still not really ignoring world, I had to reload everything and pflash the way you said to get my hh6 kernel to boot. I have tried couple of times now and it seems to work. |
| 05:18:55 | MalteseFalcon | so after working with me on this for like an hour and a half, dneuer just says: just do 'boot' |
| 05:19:20 | gmkp | MalFal: That sure is funny. |
| 05:19:34 | gmkp | MalFal, and no wonder dneuer wonders someone should pay him! |
| 05:20:18 | MalteseFalcon | Well... if I get a color ipaq, I'll give him my 3135 |
| 05:20:43 | MalteseFalcon | but he'd have to share it with sgodsell, he's spent hours with me also. |
| 05:20:52 | gmkp | MalFal, Just to make you feel more guilty, I had some issues with my hh6 kernel, but since dneuer was busy with you, I decided to reload everything instead of solving the problem! |
| 05:20:54 | beeblebrox | MalteseFalcon: cool... |
| 05:21:27 | MalteseFalcon | Hmmmmm... guilt.... |
| 05:21:32 | | MalteseFalcon: i'm not following you... |
| 05:21:32 | MalteseFalcon | ibot: guilt |
| 05:21:39 | MalteseFalcon | exactly! |
| 05:21:41 | MalteseFalcon | :) |
| 05:22:19 | gmkp | MalFal, I have a dumb question: What is ibot? |
| 05:22:25 | beeblebrox | this is a bit like the plug disconnected while you keep wondering why the computer is not booting :) |
| 05:22:33 | beeblebrox | gmkp: ibot is a really cool bot. |
| 05:22:37 | MalteseFalcon | Kind of like a system "oracle" |
| 05:22:40 | | beeblebrox: i'm not following you... |
| 05:22:40 | beeblebrox | ibot abuse gmkp |
| 05:22:44 | gmkp | MalFal: automated? |
| 05:22:51 | beeblebrox | gmkp: yea.. |
| 05:22:55 | MalteseFalcon | Yes |
| 05:22:58 | | ipaq is, like, a Strongarm based PDA with 206Mhz CPU and 32Mb RAM. http://www.compaq.com/products/handhelds/pocketpc/ and is also available in 64 meg version |
| 05:22:58 | beeblebrox | ibot: what is ipaq? |
| 05:23:10 | gmkp | Thanks! |
| 05:23:20 | beeblebrox | it is really fun to play with! |
| 05:23:51 | beeblebrox | ibot help |
| 05:23:59 | gmkp | I didn't know this IRC has so sophisticated technology. I recently atteneded a conference where some heavy weight was presenting something similar. |
| 05:24:28 | gmkp | But of course that was research material with multi million contracts and all. |
| 05:24:36 | gmkp | Anyway, that is OT. |
| 05:24:42 | beeblebrox | ditto here... i have seen bots much smarter than ibot on other channels.. |
| 05:25:28 | | MalteseFalcon: i'm not following you... |
| 05:25:28 | MalteseFalcon | ibot: Schmuck |
| 05:25:44 | | MalteseFalcon: i'm not following you... |
| 05:25:44 | MalteseFalcon | ibot: Come... follow me! |
| 05:26:13 | gmkp | MalFal, ibot learnt something from this ordeal! |
| 05:27:03 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: LOL |
| 05:27:05 | | OK, beeblebrox. |
| 05:27:05 | beeblebrox | ibot: MalteseFalcon is a schmuck |
| 05:27:13 | | MalteseFalcon is, like, a schmuck |
| 05:27:13 | beeblebrox | ibot: what is MalteseFalcon |
| 05:27:18 | beeblebrox | hehe |
| 05:27:21 | dneuer_ignoring_world | gmkp: you've rebooted several times, and all is OK? |
| 05:27:23 | MalteseFalcon | LOL!! |
| 05:27:34 | dneuer_ignoring_world | gmkp: no more hanging in ppp driver? |
| 05:27:41 | MalteseFalcon | I love it! |
| 05:27:49 | | beeblebrox: I forgot maltesefalcon |
| 05:27:49 | beeblebrox | ibot: forget MalteseFalcon |
| 05:32:34 | dneuer_ignoring_world | is amazed at the # of people using my images |
| 05:33:37 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: In case you are still here, I just sent you mail. |
| 05:33:47 | dneuer_ignoring_world | OK, thanks |
| 05:33:56 | MalteseFalcon | Well all, I think I'll be heading out. I've caused enough headaches tonight! |
| 05:34:09 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: A weird behavior with the new kernel and ppp. |
| 05:34:51 | gmkp | MalFal: How about chaning name? |
| 05:35:45 | MalteseFalcon | gmkp: Changing name? To what? |
| 05:35:56 | gmkp | dneuer_ignoring_world: In case you are STILL here, can you go through my mail and see if you need more details? |
| 05:36:27 | dneuer | I'm here for the long haul, it looks like ;-) |
| 05:36:28 | gmkp | MalFal: No, we pulled your leg enough. At least I stop it. |
| 05:36:47 | MalFal | Is this better? |
| 05:36:48 | dneuer | gmkp: So, is installing ppp something you had done every time before? |
| 05:36:58 | gmkp | dneuer: Okay, then the problem seems to me that ppp ipkg seems to overwrite kernel. |
| 05:37:18 | gmkp | dneuer: Yes, that is the first thing I used to install after logging in for the first time. |
| 05:37:43 | dneuer | hang on a sec... |
| 05:39:09 | dneuer | damn, my buffer got truncated |
| 05:39:10 | dneuer | gmkp: do you remember me telling you that I'd told Luigi to do the same thing? |
| 05:39:26 | gmkp | dneuer: Yes. |
| 05:41:15 | gmkp | dneuer: In case it matters, ppp ipkg seems to have unpacked in full. In fact if you see the message, the problem happens when ipkg "configuring ppp" whatever that means. |
| 05:41:59 | gmkp | dneuer: I believe we can look at control file of ppp ipkg to see what is it configuring, right? |
| 05:43:25 | dneuer | gmkp: look for a postinst script |
| 05:44:28 | gmkp | dneuer: I have looked at it, nothing suspicious |
| 05:45:00 | gmkp | dneuer: there is the header file that defines dependencies, info about ipkg etc. |
| 05:45:05 | dneuer | gmkp: can you mail it to me (in the body, not as attachment)? |
| 05:45:22 | gmkp | Ok. |
| 05:45:28 | dneuer | gmkp: I don't think that would have anything to do with the configuration step |
| 05:48:01 | gmkp | But that is when I got the errors. |
| 05:48:28 | gmkp | It is not the configuration per se, but that unpacks certain files, may be that is when it happened? |
| 05:51:36 | dneuer | gmkp: well, the error messages come after the Configuring ppp..., and ipkg is done unpacking things at that point, if I'm not mistaken |
| 05:52:17 | dneuer | gmkp: what feed is this from? |
| 05:55:41 | gmkp | dneuer: Sorry, I had to go out for a min. |
| 05:55:47 | gmkp | What form? |
| 05:56:38 | dneuer | gmkp: ppp modules from stable? unstable? |
| 05:56:51 | gmkp | dneuer: The error messages came while configuring ppp. |
| 05:57:22 | gmkp | dneuer: From faimliar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l. |
| 05:57:35 | gmkp | The same ipkg.conf-dist that is shipped in your feed. |
| 05:58:21 | gmkp | dneuer: again, to stress, the error messages came at "Configyring PPP..." and after error messages are printed it says "Done". |
| 05:59:11 | dneuer | gmkp: ok, well the postinst from that package runs depmod, I wonder if depmod is writing to the kernel partition? |
| 05:59:42 | gmkp | How can we figure that out? |
| 06:00:09 | gmkp | dneuer: That is likely, as that is what caused the problem for me before. |
| 06:00:34 | gmkp | I mean kernel hung while loading the ppp module when it shouldn't have loaded the module in the first place. |
| 06:01:10 | dneuer | gmkp: which kernel version, and what do you mean? |
| 06:01:18 | gmkp | dneuer: I strongly suspect that is the problem. |
| 06:01:34 | gmkp | dneuer: I am using 2.4.7-rmk3-np1-hh6. |
| 06:01:49 | gmkp | What I mean is that earlier, I had ppp installed already and then installed hh6 kernel. |
| 06:02:23 | dneuer | right, so the ppp modules themselves seem to think they are in the kernel partition or something |
| 06:02:32 | gmkp | When I rebooted, I used to get "System halted message". So the next time I loaded everything from your feed, then loaded the ppp ipkg then loaded hh6 kernel |
| 06:02:32 | dneuer | this seems like JFFS2 errors |
| 06:02:45 | gmkp | and then pflashed as you suggested then rebooted. |
| 06:03:02 | gmkp | At that time after /linuxrc is done, it loads ppp module for some reason and hangs. |
| 06:03:08 | dneuer | gmkp: right, so only the last time did you reflash root fs |
| 06:03:21 | gmkp | dneuer: Last two times. |
| 06:03:31 | gmkp | And both times the same behavior. |
| 06:03:33 | a7r | can you paste the partition map, please? |
| 06:04:01 | gmkp | a7r: hang on |
| 06:05:14 | gmkp | a7r: The same parition that is suggested on the info for h31xx models |
| 06:05:14 | gmkp | a7r: Here it is |
| 06:05:14 | gmkp | base 00000000 |
| 06:05:18 | gmkp | size 00020000 |
| 06:05:29 | gmkp | flags: 00000002 |
| 06:05:37 | gmkp | params |
| 06:05:43 | gmkp | base: 00020000 |
| 06:05:48 | gmkp | size: 00020000 |
| 06:05:53 | gmkp | flags: 00000000 |
| 06:05:57 | gmkp | kernel |
| 06:06:03 | gmkp | base: 00080000 |
| 06:06:08 | gmkp | size: 000C0000 |
| 06:06:13 | gmkp | flags: 00000000 |
| 06:06:17 | gmkp | root |
| 06:06:21 | gmkp | base: 00140000 |
| 06:06:26 | gmkp | size: 00EC0000 |
| 06:06:31 | gmkp | flags: 00000018 |
| 06:06:44 | gmkp | a7r: end of partition info. |
| 06:06:45 | a7r | those don't look wrong.. |
| 06:07:11 | dneuer | there's a gap between params and kernel, but that shouldn't matter in the slightest |
| 06:07:16 | a7r | nope.. |
| 06:07:48 | a7r | that's a trip.. |
| 06:07:55 | gmkp | Do you guys want complete kernel boot messages? |
| 06:08:01 | a7r | dneuer: was that build from after dwmw2's latest check-in? |
| 06:09:12 | gmkp | a7r: no it is not (if I may answer). |
| 06:09:44 | gmkp | a7r: I mean this doesn't have the latest jffs2 changes that dwmw2 committed in the last couple of days. |
| 06:09:55 | a7r | okay. |
| 06:10:37 | gmkp | a7r: If you want to, I can try with those changes and report. |
| 06:11:11 | a7r | that'd be interesting.. |
| 06:11:33 | gmkp | Just to clarify, those changes went into hh6 in the past couple of days? |
| 06:11:38 | a7r | yeah. |
| 06:12:01 | gmkp | Okay, i will checkout tonight and let you know what it does. |
| 06:12:48 | a7r | gmkp: when you protect your kernel space, do you get errors about being unable to write flash in the range of where the kernel is living? |
| 06:12:57 | dneuer | gmkp: I'm going to build you another kernel right now with that stuff, OK? |
| 06:13:18 | gmkp | dneuer: That will be great I had difficulties with cvs today. |
| 06:13:36 | gmkp | a7r: I hardly did anything with this kernel before I installed ppp. |
| 06:13:40 | dneuer | a7r: those errors I showed you were from gmkp, and were from ipkg install ppp* after protecting flash |
| 06:13:51 | a7r | dneuer: ah, OKay.. maybe they are offsets then. |
| 06:14:02 | gmkp | a7r: But while booting I get lot of errors about not being able to write there. |
| 06:14:13 | dneuer | a7r: without protecting flash, this corrupted kernel part and that's why a second reboot was not possible, methinks |
| 06:14:25 | a7r | dneuer: yeah, we'll take that at as a given. |
| 06:14:47 | a7r | new 3600 image almost done, BTW. |
| 06:15:06 | gmkp | a7r: good news for others! |
| 06:16:40 | gmkp | I installed ppp again and I get no errors. Does ipkg install all over again if I ask it to or just do nothing since it is already installed? |
| 06:16:44 | gmkp | I am just testing. |
| 06:17:12 | gmkp | I removed ppp and reinstalled again, this time no errors. |
| 06:19:27 | dneuer | gmkp: what is your kernel name? |
| 06:19:39 | dneuer | -hh6-devfs? |
| 06:22:00 | gmkp | dneuer: It is hh6-mono1. |
| 06:22:15 | gmkp | dneuer: I didn't enable devfs. |
| 06:22:58 | dneuer | but did you change the EXTRAVERSION label? |
| 06:23:27 | gmkp | Yes, I just changed it to hh6-mono1 instead of hh2-mono1 |
| 06:23:39 | dneuer | alright |
| 06:24:39 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 02:28:17) |
| 06:25:39 | dneuer | gmkp: did you change anything else in the config? |
| 06:25:48 | gmkp | No, nothing else. |
| 06:26:04 | gmkp | dneuer: Oh, one thing, I enabled pcmcia serial for my modem. |
| 06:27:41 | dneuer | OK, well, that doesn't matter for debugging purposes, I think |
| 06:28:13 | dneuer | I'm going to rebuild kernel (but not modules) and shoot that over to you to try, OK? |
| 06:28:26 | gmkp | dnuer: Okay. |
| 06:29:24 | gmkp | dneuer: Send it to giri@cs.sunysb.edu |
| 06:30:30 | gmkp | dneuer: BTW, I still can't access cvs! Thanks for building the kernel for me. |
| 06:33:18 | dneuer | gmkp: no problem. That's what open source is really all about. Community |
| 06:34:00 | dneuer | gmkp: I wouldn't be a programmer today if it weren't for all the incredibly helpful people on comp.lang.perl.misc |
| 06:34:05 | gmkp | dneuer: Hmmm, it seems you are working hard. I see lot of 'waiting for dneuer's lock in ...' in the hh6 tree. |
| 06:34:23 | dneuer | gmkp: huh? |
| 06:35:03 | gmkp | dneuer: I just got the cvs and i see lot of the messages, e.g., for Documentation/video4linux etc. |
| 06:35:35 | dneuer | gmkp: I thought you couldn't access it? I'm doing a checkout right now |
| 06:36:36 | gmkp | dneuer: I just got through to the cvs, but I am right now at home, which has a modem connection, so I am first downloading to school machine, from where I will rsync to my home mahcine, which should take very little time. |
| 06:37:07 | gmkp | hh6 tree at home is couple of days old. |
| 06:37:20 | dneuer | ahh. Yeah the locks are from my checkout in progress |
| 06:37:40 | gmkp | Oh. |
| 06:38:13 | dneuer | brb... |
| 06:40:03 | gmkp | Okay I got the latest hh6 sources. Shall I compile myself or should I try yours? |
| 06:43:09 | dneuer | gmkp: what did you do, just a plain 'co linux/kernel'? |
| 06:44:16 | gmkp | No, I did co -r K2_4_7-rmk3-np1-hh6 linux/kernel |
| 06:45:14 | dneuer | that won't work: won't have latest dwmw2 stuff, it's what you already had |
| 06:45:16 | gmkp | On second thoughts, I guess I shold've done plain 'co linux/kernel' |
| 06:45:31 | gmkp | Bummber, it is like MalFal stuff. |
| 06:45:43 | gmkp | Okay, I will get the 'co linux/kernel'. |
| 06:46:46 | dneuer | I'll beat you to it ;-) |
| 06:46:53 | dneuer | making 'dep' right now |
| 06:47:45 | gmkp | Hmm, I guess I can't win there. |
| 06:48:06 | gmkp | But I can play dirty; I won't check my mail for another half an hour, how about that :-) |
| 06:48:59 | dneuer | gmkp: LOL. So you want to play hardball, eh? |
| 06:49:03 | dneuer | ;-) |
| 06:49:22 | gmkp | dneuer: Well something to keep us awake! |
| 06:49:42 | dneuer | gmkp: I can't sleep when I'm in this mode |
| 06:49:59 | dneuer | gets obsessed w/ solving a problem |
| 06:50:26 | dneuer | gmkp: probably my biggest strength as a developer and my biggest weakness as a husband |
| 06:50:27 | gmkp | dneuer: Me neither. And I am supposed to submit a preliminary writeup on some paper and submit a review of some a paper for publication! |
| 06:51:35 | gmkp | dneuer: Well, someone's loss is our gain! |
| 06:52:19 | gmkp | dneuer: I meant the time your wife loses with you is a gain for us users. |
| 06:52:21 | dneuer | gmkp: I just mailed you the file |
| 06:52:55 | dneuer | gmkp: well, when she divorces me, I'll be sure to set up a 'users who want to help pay Dave's alimony' fund |
| 06:53:51 | gmkp | dneuer: I don't know how to respond to that. Should I say "Sure" or "no, don't even think about it" |
| 06:54:00 | gmkp | dneuer: I am not trained in diplomacy. |
| 06:55:40 | gmkp | dneuer: Well, I have to go through the whole drill: reload your feed and then load the new kernel. It might take time. Do you want to be up or shall I send you the report by mail? |
| 07:11:06 | dneuer | gkmp: no, just unprotect the kernel partition, load the kernel, remove the ppp module, then reinstall the ppp module and tell me what happens |
| 07:11:32 | gmkp | Well, I am going through the whole drill, so as to create the exact situation again. |
| 07:11:46 | gmkp | May be that was not necessary, but I wasn't sure. Right now I am flashing the root. |
| 07:13:50 | dneuer | gmkp: ok |
| 07:23:38 | gmkp | Should I protect the flash in this case? |
| 07:23:52 | gmkp | I guess I should, right? That way we will know if |
| 07:23:53 | dneuer | gmkp: try it without |
| 07:23:55 | gmkp | it overshoots. |
| 07:24:14 | gmkp | Well, then we wouldn't know if ipkg will try to overwrite into kernel? |
| 07:24:46 | dneuer | gmkp: you will on next reboot, if it gets corrupted. Protecting it will tell you quicker, I guess |
| 07:25:20 | gmkp | Okay, so this time I won't protect and let you know. |
| 07:25:59 | dneuer | gmkp: No, on second thought, protect it first |
| 07:26:24 | dneuer | then, if that works, unprotect it and boot again and try that for a while to see if anything else corrupts it |
| 07:26:29 | gmkp | alright, I am now flashing the kernel. |
| 07:26:41 | gmkp | as soon as it is done, will protect and boot. |
| 07:28:10 | gmkp | dneuer: I got the "Cannot open root device mtdblock3" panic problem. Did you compile devfs into it? |
| 07:28:23 | gmkp | I guess I have to change the root to /dev/mtdblock/3. |
| 07:29:38 | dneuer | no, devfs is not configured |
| 07:30:08 | dneuer | did any message precede that? |
| 07:30:20 | gmkp | Well, I tried with root=/dev/mtdblock/3, and now I got hell lot of messages about Write error in obliterating obsoleted node at 0x... |
| 07:30:35 | gmkp | and finally kernel panic: No init found. |
| 07:31:00 | gmkp | Shold I try unprotecting and rebooting? |
| 07:32:13 | dneuer | gmkp: good question. Things seem fairly screwed up w/ mtd layer & jffs2. I'm not sure if unprotecting will help, at this point |
| 07:32:47 | gmkp | dneuer: Hmmm, now what to do? |
| 07:34:40 | dneuer | gmkp: My guess is that along w/ all of the kernel changes to the mtd and jffs2 layer, mkfs.jffs2 also changed, and that the reason you get the panic saying "Cannot open root device" is because the root fs image isn't good, as far as the kernel jffs2 or mtd driver is concerned |
| 07:35:14 | gmkp | Hmmm, that figures. Now to get this thing going, I have to upgrade to new bootldr? |
| 07:35:26 | GodFinger | hi |
| 07:35:33 | GodFinger | What's up? |
| 07:35:41 | gmkp | GodFinger: Hi. |
| 07:36:09 | GodFinger | what's the topic? |
| 07:36:14 | gmkp | dneuer: Should I upgrade to new bootldr? |
| 07:36:21 | dneuer | gmkp: and that the /dev/mtdblock/3 messages were garbage from reading the wrong device (which makes sense because it's similar to the message that was generated when the ppp installation was looking at the kernel partition as if it were a jffs2 filesystem |
| 07:36:29 | GodFinger | aha |
| 07:36:36 | dneuer | GodFinger: you don't want to know!! |
| 07:36:42 | GodFinger | why? |
| 07:36:47 | GodFinger | Linux? |
| 07:36:54 | dneuer | GodFinger: unless you're David Woodhouse in disguise |
| 07:37:02 | GodFinger | no... sorry |
| 07:37:37 | gmkp | dneuer: I didn't quite understand what you said, but kind of get the idea. |
| 07:38:03 | GodFinger | yes |
| 07:39:26 | GodFinger | got to go now. |
| 07:39:29 | GodFinger | bye |
| 07:45:38 | dneuer | gkmp: can you go back to the previous kernel (the one you made before -- did you save it) |
| 07:45:39 | dneuer | ? |
| 07:45:39 | _Axu_ | good morning folks : |
| 07:45:53 | gmkp | dneuer: Yes I have it. |
| 07:46:04 | gmkp | dneuer: hold on, let me flash it. |
| 07:46:22 | dneuer | gmkp: I'm talking to dwmw2 about it now |
| 07:47:35 | gmkp | dneuer: Oh, thats good, hopefully we will crack something tonight (oops, today). |
| 07:47:59 | _Axu_ | i installed kernel-2.4.7-rmk3-np1-devfs_hh6_arm.ipk wich didnt fix the ts suspend problem, anyone got it working? |
| 07:48:50 | dneuer | _Axu_ what problem do you get now? |
| 07:49:16 | _Axu_ | dneuer: after suspending my touchscreen is unusable till reboot |
| 07:50:05 | SleepingDragon | is away: good night |
| 07:50:05 | dneuer | Well, if touchscreen driver is built as a module, you didn't install the driver |
| 07:50:05 | dneuer | right? |
| 07:50:21 | _Axu_ | dneuer: hmm, yeah, thats possible :) |
| 07:50:27 | gmkp | dneuer: I have booted for the first time into hh6 kernel. |
| 07:50:31 | dneuer | _Axu_ -hh6 builds it as a module. Does that ipk contain the module, or just the kernel |
| 07:50:39 | _Axu_ | dneuer: thanx for opening that knot in my brains :9 |
| 07:51:00 | _Axu_ | dneuer: i think the modules are seperated, wait ipkg files.. |
| 07:51:14 | dneuer | gmkp: OK, what was the console output, please |
| 07:51:24 | _Axu_ | ahh, just the zimage :) |
| 07:51:24 | dneuer | gmkp: from the beginning |
| 07:52:10 | gmkp | dneuer: Sorry, my xchat crashed. |
| 07:55:24 | _Axu_ | hmm, ok, i installed the modules and loaded h3600_ts, wish me luck |
| 07:56:17 | _Axu_ | dneuer: did you do any changes on /sbin/pm_helper ? |
| 07:57:51 | dneuer | _Axu_ I didn't do any, but you do need the new hotplug package, or you'll be confused when you hit the power button and nothting happens |
| 07:58:38 | _Axu_ | dneuer: hmm, where did you get it from ? |
| 08:01:26 | gmkp | dneuer: BTW, I haven't protected the flash as yet. |
| 08:05:02 | _Axu_ | where can i get a new hotplug package ? |
| 08:05:35 | _Axu_ | or is this one usable to ?: hotplug_1.8_arm.ipk 06-Sep-2001 09:51 5k |
| 08:07:52 | _Axu_ | jepp, that did it :) |
| 08:08:30 | _Axu_ | finally a woriking ts after suspend resume, thanx dneuer :) |
| 08:08:45 | _Axu_ | good night folks :) |
| 08:09:17 | dneuer | _Axu_ no problem |
| 11:21:11 | beeblebrox | is away: Away! |
| 12:18:02 | _Axu_ | hi |
| 12:37:50 | _Axu_ | hi nikos :) |
| 12:38:22 | nikos | Hi _Axu_ |
| 12:38:42 | _Axu_ | nikos: i finally got familiar 0.5 working :) |
| 12:40:14 | nikos | _Axu_: Excellent. |
| 12:40:20 | _Axu_ | nikos ;) |
| 12:40:52 | _Axu_ | nikos: do you know a playce where i can get a calendar aplication ? |
| 12:41:42 | nikos | _Axu_: I'm afraid I havent' spent any time looking at PIM applications. Look through the Packages files in the unstable and bleeding feeds. |
| 12:41:46 | | hmmm... unstable feed is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/ |
| 12:41:46 | nikos | ibot: unstable feed |
| 12:41:50 | | bleeding feed is, like, http://familiar.handhelds.org/~nelson/bleeding/ |
| 12:41:50 | nikos | ibot: bleeding feed |
| 12:45:12 | _Axu_ | nikos: oki, thanx |
| 13:03:54 | mccarthy | _Axu_ wait a minute. someone wrote a "schedule" program (or you could use the Agenda ones of course).... |
| 13:11:25 | pattieja | is back (gone 15:47:55) |
| 13:11:47 | pattieja | is away: rebooting |
| 13:13:12 | mccarthy | _Axu_: look at http://www.uk.research.att.com/~jnw/downloadables/index.html |
| 13:17:24 | beeblebrox | is back (gone 01:55:58) |
| 13:20:01 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: re, i take a look at it, thanx, what do you meen with the agenda ? |
| 13:28:34 | mccarthy | _Axu_: look in the wiki under Apps. Someone has ported the Agenda Handhelds Apps to the Ipaq. |
| 13:29:42 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: a i c, well, i just installed schedule, looks really nice : |
| 13:30:47 | mccarthy | _Axu_: I haven't actually tried it yet. Can it set alarms? |
| 13:31:07 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: i think so, it depends on atd :) |
| 13:31:20 | _Axu_ | one, moment :9 |
| 13:35:05 | _Axu_ | sched:thread start ... ok now all i can do is wait :9 |
| 13:36:05 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 13:36:23 | pattieja | is back (gone 00:00:02) |
| 13:39:16 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: hmm, i dont here no alarmsounds |
| 13:44:24 | mccarthy | _Axu_: what did you tell "atd" to do? (look in /var/spool/at/ for the script) |
| 13:46:16 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: i got a /var/spool/atd/trigger but its empty |
| 13:46:29 | _Axu_ | mom, i try again |
| 13:47:38 | mccarthy | _Axu_: trigger will always be "empty" (it is not a regular file). When there is a pending at job, though there will be other files (with names corresponding to the time of the job). |
| 13:48:12 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: ic, well as you see i havent had any contact to atd, but need for shure |
| 13:49:29 | _Axu_ | 1001609400.750 |
| 13:50:34 | mccarthy | _Axu_: "cat" it |
| 13:50:35 | _Axu_ | ah, jepp, when i create a new entry a small skript got created /var/spool/at/1001609400.750 = echo 1 >/tmp/.schedule-trigger , rm -f $0 |
| 13:50:42 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: ;) |
| 13:51:11 | mccarthy | _Axu_: again? |
| 13:51:19 | mccarthy | what is in the file? |
| 13:51:29 | _Axu_ | #!/bin/sh |
| 13:51:30 | _Axu_ | echo 1 >/tmp/.schedule-trigger |
| 13:51:36 | _Axu_ | rm -f $0 |
| 13:51:54 | mccarthy | what is in /tmp/.schedule-trigger? |
| 13:52:03 | mccarthy | I guess just a 1? |
| 13:52:27 | _Axu_ | nothging |
| 13:52:40 | _Axu_ | Unlinking AT command |
| 13:52:41 | _Axu_ | sched:thread end |
| 13:52:41 | _Axu_ | reminder:Played sample |
| 13:52:56 | mccarthy | ? |
| 13:52:59 | _Axu_ | hmm, but anyways i dont here nothing... thats ok |
| 13:53:19 | _Axu_ | mccarthy: i ment there was nothing in it when cat´in it |
| 13:54:43 | _Axu_ | no, nothing, the reminding works, just no audio. |
| 13:55:01 | _Axu_ | hey sjohnson :) |
| 13:55:15 | sjohnson | _Axu_: Hey |
| 13:56:03 | nikos | Morning sjohnson |
| 13:57:06 | _Axu_ | so now, that youre all awake, i finished my work and am on my way back home :) |
| 13:58:27 | sjohnson | Hi nikos |
| 14:00:29 | mccarthy | nikos: I am not sure whom to tell, but if at all possible we should have ipkg install dependant packages first (so that sshd's postinst script actually works) |
| 14:01:17 | nikos | mccarthy: File a bug to the GNATS database. |
| 14:01:31 | nikos | mccarthy: Of course, check first that it hasn't already been filed. |
| 14:01:43 | mccarthy | nikos: and how (where) do I do that again? |
| 14:01:51 | | somebody said gnats was at http://familiar.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/wwwgnats.pl |
| 14:01:51 | nikos | ibot: gnats |
| 14:03:00 | mccarthy | nikos: nelson already posted it |
| 14:05:14 | nikos | mccarthy: OK |
| 14:06:06 | _Axu_ | bye folks :9 |
| 14:06:44 | nikos | mccarthy: It might be worth filing another which generalizes the issue more, like in your statement above. |
| 14:25:51 | mccarthy | nikos: done |
| 14:27:07 | sjohnson | Oooh. Pictures of new 3800 IPAQ - http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles/ipaq2002.html |
| 14:29:19 | sjohnson | And builtin Bluetooth - I want one, now! |
| 14:32:31 | Disconnect | nikos: up for testing a new ipaqstat? now got memory graph and flash-space (well, root fs) graph |
| 14:38:13 | nikos | Disconnect: Sure |
| 14:38:18 | nikos | mccarthy: Thank you. |
| 14:39:29 | nikos | sjohnson: Only problem is that it seems osloader doesn't like ppc2002. |
| 14:40:31 | nikos | I don't know that I care for the built-in support for SD cards. |
| 14:40:55 | sjohnson | But 32 MB FLASH and 16 bit color screen. |
| 14:41:13 | nikos | sjohnson: Umm, bluetooth is not builtin, its provided by a sleeve that will work on any 3000 series. |
| 14:41:15 | nikos | sjohnson: True. |
| 14:41:16 | sjohnson | and osloader problems will be fixed. |
| 14:42:40 | nikos | sjohnson: That non-standard power connector is also problematic, for those of us wanting to make/use alternate power supplies. |
| 14:43:07 | sjohnson | Besides, it's just my tech lust. I budgeted to get a new Paim 705 this yer, but since they are delayed I'm looking what else to get instead. |
| 14:43:17 | nikos | sjohnson: :) |
| 14:43:55 | Nexs | those new ipaqs look good =) |
| 14:44:09 | Nexs | http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/articles/ipaq2002.html |
| 14:44:27 | sgodsell | I hated the speaker in the action button. Now it is moved to the top |
| 14:44:35 | Disconnect | nikos: sorry was in #handhelds. . grab it off skiff ftp://guest:skiff.my.net@skiffcluster2.handhelds.org/skiff\@sigkill.net/ipaqstat-1.3pre/ipaqstat |
| 14:44:41 | nikos | Nexs: I just spouted off a bunch of complaints. ;) But yes. |
| 14:44:45 | sjohnson | nikos: power connector is a minor issue. I'm thinking about getting a mess of those connectors and start builomd customs cable at least for me. I need a short extender tab;e for my stowaway keyboard. and the duel sleeve. |
| 14:44:53 | Nexs | nikos like? |
| 14:57:02 | jn | hello * |
| 14:57:38 | jn | anyone seen a kernel panic JFFS2: Erase block at 0x00000000 is not formatted in very latest task-bootstrap ? |
| 14:57:49 | jn | whats wrong here ? |
| 14:59:56 | | gnats is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/wwwgnats.pl |
| 14:59:56 | sjohnson | ibot gnats |
| 15:06:02 | jn | sjohnson: thanks, but can't find it there... |
| 15:06:41 | jn | someone on the list says the kernel might be looking for a wrong partition... |
| 15:07:13 | sjohnson | jn: What is your bootldr linuxarg param |
| 15:08:15 | jn | checks linuxargs |
| 15:09:53 | jn | sjohnson: set linuxargs "noinitrd root=/dev/mtdblock/2 init=/linuxrc console=ttySA0 |
| 15:10:40 | sjohnson | Familar 0.5? |
| 15:11:08 | jn | sjohnson: sure |
| 15:12:03 | jn | sjohnson: this didnt happen with the task-bootstrap of a few days ago. only the one from today bails out. |
| 15:13:01 | sjohnson | jn: Whitch kernel version are you using and which bootldr version? |
| 15:13:35 | nikos | jn: And which familiar version? Did you recreate the partitions? |
| 15:14:10 | nikos | jn: So you upgraded to the v0.5-pre that a7r released last night? I haven't tried it yet. |
| 15:14:51 | Disconnect | nikos: did you grab the new ipaqstat yet? |
| 15:15:03 | Disconnect | nikos: auto-adjusts graphs for presense/absence of wvlan stats :) |
| 15:15:05 | nikos | Disconnect: I'm having trouble getting into the skiffcluster, still trying. |
| 15:15:24 | nikos | Disconnect: I don't have wireless working on v0.5-pre yet, so I can't really test that. |
| 15:15:28 | Disconnect | tries. ok it takes a sec to adjust but it does :) |
| 15:15:57 | Disconnect | probably going to have to stop auto-generating the graph positions and just have 2 arrays of y positions. :( |
| 15:16:35 | Disconnect | nikos: any of the skiffs will have the bin, you just can't build source on some of them ;) |
| 15:17:20 | nikos | Disconnect: So far, I haven't been able to connect to any of them. |
| 15:17:45 | jn | sjohnson: current task bootstrap has kernel 2.4.7-rmk3-np1-devfs, bootldr is 2.15-6 |
| 15:17:47 | nikos | Disconnect: Success on skiff2 |
| 15:18:05 | jn | nikos: 0.5pre of today, yes and yes. |
| 15:18:12 | nikos | jn: I think you mean 2.4.7-rmk3-np1-devfs-hh6, you need 2.15.14 |
| 15:18:46 | Disconnect | nikos: from the top, the new graphs are: APM (yellow-100% for charging), wvlan (if present), free ram (red is free %, green is free+cache %), df % on / |
| 15:18:58 | jn | nikos: just pasted what the kernel says on boot. probably with hh patches, yes :) |
| 15:19:43 | jn | nikos: so the last digit in booldr version is a patchlevel ? i thought it was just a build number.... |
| 15:20:08 | nikos | jn: I don't know, but it has been reported that you need 2.15.14 or later for -hh6. |
| 15:20:33 | jn | thanks. will try. |
| 15:20:39 | Disconnect | hey! dillo 0.61 seems to have actual bookmark capabilities! :) |
| 15:20:44 | jn | goes flashing the bootldr again.... |
| 15:20:57 | mccarthy | jn: you DEFINITELY need 2.15.14 (or .15) with new kernel |
| 15:21:17 | jn_away | mccarthy: thanks. will use that. bbl |
| 15:21:52 | nikos | Disconnect: Trying now, add info about graphs to the -h help message. |
| 15:22:44 | nikos | Disconnect: The APM graph should be green if I have a good charge, that's kind of scary. |
| 15:23:12 | Disconnect | nikos: trying to avoid using too many GCs but yah, can do that. ditto ram/etc. but I'm running out of easily-distinguishable colors ;) |
| 15:23:17 | nikos | Disconnect: I think you must mean free% on df? |
| 15:23:24 | Disconnect | (feel free to give me R/G/B suggestions for each graph.) |
| 15:24:01 | nikos | Disconnect: I'll give it some thought. Maybe you should consider building graphs out of little symbols or something to distinguish what the graph represents and save colors for state info. |
| 15:24:25 | Disconnect | nikos: the symbols are more memory-expensive than the color sets ;) |
| 15:25:14 | nikos | Disconnect: A little 8x8 bitmap is nothing. |
| 15:25:47 | nikos | Disconnect: Or you could generate the symbol programatically, although that would be even more costly. |
| 15:26:41 | nikos | Disconnect: Seems pretty good so far. |
| 15:27:03 | Disconnect | "Graphs, from the top:\n"\ |
| 15:27:03 | Disconnect | "APM % - Yellow if charging, brown/red otherwise.\n"\ |
| 15:27:03 | Disconnect | "Wireless Lan Link - [Optional] - Shows status of the 'link' field in /proc/wireless.\n"\ |
| 15:27:03 | Disconnect | "Memory - Red is % free, green is free + cache.\n"\ |
| 15:27:04 | Disconnect | "DF - Percent of / partition free\n\n") |
| 15:27:06 | Disconnect | look good? |
| 15:27:17 | nikos | Damn, found a bug with -hh6. Serial doesn't come back from sleep? |
| 15:27:28 | Disconnect | nikos: uhoh. just got forcibly upgraded by ipkg. |
| 15:27:47 | Disconnect | thinks kernels shouldn't version themselves like that - unless its a new hh5, it shouldn't have changed it on me,. |
| 15:28:30 | nikos | Disconnect: I'm wrong. |
| 15:28:47 | mccarthy | how does one do numbers with xstroke now? |
| 15:28:49 | nikos | Disconnect: Ignore that, serial came back fine. |
| 15:28:57 | Disconnect | ok good |
| 15:29:00 | nikos | mccarthy: What version have you installed? |
| 15:29:08 | mccarthy | the one from unstable :) |
| 15:29:41 | mccarthy | 0.5-6 |
| 15:29:58 | nikos | mccarthy: Looking for cheat sheets now, one moment. |
| 15:30:33 | nikos | mccarthy: ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/projects/xstroke/release-0.5/ |
| 15:30:37 | nikos | mccarthy: Look at the .pngs. |
| 15:31:55 | Disconnect | nikos: at which apm % should it turn red? 40? (this is the modified apm % so it can actually go close to 0 without dying ;) ..) |
| 15:32:24 | nikos | Disconnect: That's a good question, it should be configurable. 20% sounds about right to me for a default. |
| 15:32:52 | nikos | Disconnect: Maybe yellow at 40%. |
| 15:33:01 | Disconnect | nikos: not 40? how about 25 then.. more roundish than 20 (and i wouldn't trust it past 25 anyway ;) ..) |
| 15:33:56 | nikos | Disconnect: As I said, the exact percentage is unimportant. Make it a command line option. :p |
| 15:34:57 | Disconnect | nikos: yah. btw try the new one. haven't tested the bad colors, but good apm (green) and charging (yellow) are ok |
| 15:35:58 | cworth | mccarthy: only '1' changed, (it's now up-then-down instead of just up). The other number should all be the same I think. |
| 15:38:11 | nikos | Disconnect: New as in the last few minutes? |
| 15:38:58 | Disconnect | nikos: yah couple secs ago even (you missed a version ;) ..) but the new arg doesn't work yet. oh. cuz I set it but never test it. doh. |
| 15:39:44 | mccarthy | cworth: I LOVE the xstroke-help page! (on my Ipaq that is :) |
| 15:39:55 | Disconnect | seems to work but I need to brighten that red color. |
| 15:39:59 | mccarthy | cworth: time to throw away my print-outs |
| 15:40:01 | nikos | mccarthy: umm, how does one get to that? |
| 15:40:12 | mccarthy | nikos: the same link you gave me has the ipk |
| 15:40:15 | nikos | Disconnect: Looks good. |
| 15:40:21 | nikos | mccarthy: DOH |
| 15:40:31 | mccarthy | nikos: then go diagonally from bottom right to up-left then back and tada! |
| 15:42:03 | cworth | mccarthy: thanks. |
| 15:42:16 | nikos | Do I need to restart xstroke? |
| 15:42:53 | cworth | mccarthy: I'll be changing the help stroke soon, (want to do a full-screen bottom to top stroke ala Palm), but I need to hack the recognizer a bit to allow that. |
| 15:43:02 | nikos | cworth: xstroke needs to honor the HUP signal. |
| 15:43:16 | cworth | nikos: you need the xstroke-help package. |
| 15:43:17 | Disconnect | nikos: give this a try - if you like it, it'll be 1.3 ;) |
| 15:43:25 | cworth | nikos: yes, on my TODO. |
| 15:43:48 | nikos | I can't get xstroke-help to work :( |
| 15:43:57 | nikos | Disconnect: Just a mo. |
| 15:44:10 | cworth | nikos: what happens if you just run "xstroke-help" ? |
| 15:44:23 | nikos | cworth: Ahahaha, I don't have dillo installed. |
| 15:44:25 | mccarthy | nikos: I don't know if it matters but I upgraded to 0.5-8 too. |
| 15:44:36 | nikos | cworth: Sorry, I wasn't watching the console. |
| 15:44:39 | mccarthy | nikos: nevermind. you got it |
| 15:45:01 | cworth | nikos: no worries. But the install should have picked that up, (or did you install from a local package?) |
| 15:45:32 | nikos | cworth: Local package, I have no networking here. |
| 15:46:12 | Disconnect | nikos: get the new dillo binary http://mir.nemesol.net/ipaq/dillo061.gz |
| 15:46:22 | Disconnect | nikos: drop-in binary replacement for 0.60 |
| 15:46:26 | mccarthy | cworth: is it actually in a feed somewhere? (I had to do local as well.) |
| 15:46:56 | cworth | nikos: ah. someday I'll fix that stupid bug that prevents dependency tracking with local packages. |
| 15:46:57 | nikos | Disconnect: Looks good, mention the default apm% setting. |
| 15:47:29 | cworth | mccarthy: in my private feed on scream.east.isi.edu. Waiting in Familiar's incming directory. |
| 15:48:55 | mccarthy | cworth: http or ftp? |
| 15:49:05 | Disconnect | nikos: ok new bin in place. only change is help text. |
| 15:49:54 | cworth | mccarthy: "src carlshacks http://scream.e\ |
| 15:50:09 | cworth | mccarthy: "src carlshacks http://scream.east.isi.edu/familiar/hacks" |
| 15:50:21 | jn | nikos: sjohnson: mccarthy: problem solved, the latest bootloader did it. thanks a lot ! |
| 15:50:46 | mccarthy | cworth: thanks |
| 15:50:46 | jn | can at last play with .5pre :-D |
| 15:51:46 | nikos | jg: Great. |
| 15:51:49 | nikos | oops |
| 15:51:51 | nikos | jn: great |
| 15:52:06 | mccarthy | nikos: how come jn only got a lowercase G? |
| 15:52:23 | nikos | mccarthy: Because I hit tab. |
| 15:52:43 | nikos | mccarthy: Or maybe I just hit the wrong key, I'm not sure. |
| 16:01:37 | mccarthy | nikos: when I rsync my localtime file over to the Ipaq it tries to make it a symlink to a nonexistent file...why? |
| 16:03:16 | mccarthy | nikos: nevermind. I am an idiot. its because mt /etc/localtime on my desktop is a symlink !!! |
| 16:03:56 | nikos | mccarthy: :) |
| 16:06:27 | sjohnson | Man. That is annoying. I mispplaced my IPAQ stylus. And now I can't find it. |
| 16:07:40 | nikos | sjohnson: Didn't you save the extra one? |
| 16:09:52 | nikos | cworth: Have you ever tried something like 21452589 for q? |
| 16:10:16 | SleepingDragon | is back (gone 08:20:32) |
| 16:11:05 | mccarthy | nikos: the latest ion is a little bit busted. |
| 16:11:27 | nikos | mccarthy: How so? What version? |
| 16:11:49 | sjohnson | nikos: But is still annoying... |
| 16:11:58 | mccarthy | nikos: is there an easy way to check version? |
| 16:12:11 | nikos | sjohnson: True, but its going to happen unfortunately. |
| 16:12:16 | nikos | mccarthy: ipkg info ion |
| 16:12:20 | Disconnect | nikos: any more thoughts on 1.3pre? |
| 16:12:32 | mccarthy | ion_20010314-fam6_arm.ipk |
| 16:12:44 | Disconnect | sjohnson: 90% of the probs I had w/ ion were solved by ripping apart the keyboard bindings. |
| 16:12:59 | mccarthy | I have had it crash on me twice in the last 15 minutes |
| 16:13:09 | nikos | mccarthy: Odd, try ion --version. |
| 16:13:26 | nikos | mccarthy: My ipkg info says, the same. but ion --version says differently. |
| 16:13:32 | nikos | mccarthy: Hmm, that hasn't happened to me. |
| 16:13:33 | mccarthy | 20010523 |
| 16:13:37 | nikos | mccarthy: Yeah, same here. |
| 16:13:52 | nikos | mccarthy: I would try to figure out what leads to it and watch the serial console. |
| 16:14:16 | Disconnect | mccarthy: won't solve the crashes, but check the bug I filed on the restart-x menu/X option. makes it easier to recover 'in the field' so long as gtk-menu works. |
| 16:14:22 | nikos | cworth: There seems to be some disagreement on version between the ion control file and ion. |
| 16:14:33 | mccarthy | nikos: with xstroke and ipaqstat docked, I was running "Wez"s schedule program and needed xstroke help (so dillo started), when I moved one window over (with the split) bam! |
| 16:15:25 | mccarthy | nikos: ok. simplifying.....still crashed....one sec |
| 16:15:37 | nikos | mccarthy: I don't have dillo yet, and I rarely split, but it seems OK for me. |
| 16:15:43 | mccarthy | x-window-manager: Caught fatal signal 11. Dying without deinit |
| 16:16:02 | nikos | mccarthy: It may be the program whose size is being changed. |
| 16:16:53 | mccarthy | nikos: looks like it is dillo! |
| 16:17:10 | nikos | mccarthy: Report to Eduardo Macan I guess. |
| 16:17:36 | mccarthy | splits up/down just fine |
| 16:18:01 | mccarthy | splits left/right ONCE it is split up/down.... |
| 16:18:42 | mccarthy | I guess it doesn't like being tall and skinny |
| 16:20:09 | cworth | nikos: yes, I've tried that q, (it's commented out in the default alphabet). I just haven't gotten it work reliably, (can't remember what the clashes are offhand). |
| 16:20:38 | cworth | nikos: if you want to try to make it work, please be my guest. :) Should be much easier now with /var/log/xstroke/strokes.log to help. |
| 16:22:22 | nikos | cworth: Cool. It seems easier. |
| 16:22:29 | nikos | cworth: Rock, I didn't know about the log. |
| 16:22:37 | Disconnect | ok new ipkg for ipaqstat 1.3 - /home2/guest/skiff@sigkill.net/ipaqstat-1.3/ipaqstat_1.3_arm.ipkg .. someone see if it installs clean |
| 16:22:51 | cworth | nikos: I thought you would like that. :) |
| 16:23:00 | nikos | cworth: yes indeedy |
| 16:23:10 | nikos | Disconnect: I'm eating lunch, but will try in a bit. |
| 16:23:30 | pattieja | is away: lunch |
| 16:25:05 | Disconnect | nikos: ok cool |
| 16:25:11 | Disconnect | so who gets this thing to go into 0.5? |
| 16:25:45 | cworth | Disconnect: email to a7r for now. |
| 16:28:35 | Disconnect | cworth: every time I suggest that (patches, new files, etc) I get told to put it in bugtracking. tempting to just mail it to gnats and see what happens. ;) |
| 16:29:07 | cworth | Disconnect: no, I meant send the package to a7r. |
| 16:29:34 | Disconnect | cworth: yah I know. (but its not the first binary I've been told to put into gnats by him ;) ..) |
| 16:29:36 | | somebody said a7r was the author of the familiar distribution or at mailto:a7r@andern.org or one of the more short-tempered admins for the handhelds channels. |
| 16:29:36 | Disconnect | ibot: a7r |
| 16:29:56 | cworth | Disconnect: bug-tracking is the right place for bugs and patches, (so maintainers can keep track of, verify, and fix them). |
| 16:31:40 | Disconnect | cworth: within reason. I had packaged up dillo 0.61 and was told to put it into gnats rather than email it to <whomever>.. no big deal, sending hte mail now. just one more example of why we need something other than gnats to handle maintainer stuffs.. gnats for bugs, <something else> for patches/new bins/etc ;) |
| 16:32:01 | Disconnect | btw new url is .ipk not .ipkg .. doh.. |
| 16:32:17 | nikos | Disconnect: I don't understand that, that doesn't make any sense. a7r must have misunderstood. You can put packages into GNATS. |
| 16:32:25 | nikos | err s/can/can't/ |
| 16:32:41 | cworth | Disconnect: nod. I've never said that GNATs is where maintainers should send updated packages. |
| 16:32:58 | nikos | Disconnect: My personal preference is to send info about packages and where they can be found to the Familiar list. |
| 16:34:15 | cworth | Disconnect: but GNATs is definitely where non-maintainers should put recommendations, patches, etc. It's the only system with a permanent memory, (mailing list archives don't count). |
| 16:35:41 | Disconnect | nikos: right. that was where my problem came in. if I had room/time/inclination to run a feed, I'd put them there. but since I'm missing at least 2 of those, if not all 3, there is no way for me to send updated packages and/or binaries anywhere without getting yelled at. gonna ponder 1.4 ipaqstat and see if I can't get it turned out this week, and possibly 1.5 shortly thereafter, as encouragement for a maintainer-based packaging system instead |
| 16:35:41 | Disconnect | of this admin-based one. |
| 16:38:25 | cworth | Disconnect: I would be very surprised if a7r yelled at you for sending him a package for which you are the maintainer. I'm sure he might prefer an email with a URL, but there's no way he would send you to GNATs for that. |
| 16:39:39 | Disconnect | I wouldn't be surprised to be sent to gnats to put in a bug w/ url. but we'll see. |
| 16:40:30 | nikos | Disconnect: That makes a little more sense, but only a little. I don't know of a7r ever suggesting that. |
| 16:40:57 | nikos | Disconnect: If so, at the least we need a new section for 'New Packages'. |
| 16:41:37 | nikos | cworth: Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. Except for the necessity to put the package in an openly accessible location. |
| 16:42:20 | nikos | Disconnect: To provide a URL to your package, you do NOT need to setup a feed. I think your direction on retrieving it from a skiffcluster system would also be sufficient. |
| 16:42:41 | nikos | Disconnect: If you would like I would happily place it in my feed. |
| 16:45:25 | Disconnect | nikos: yah. but to maintain it I need some way of getting it into a feed as a maintainer. rather than getting it into a feed by bugging an admin until I see it appear. thats the big problem with maintaining packages right now - in order to maintain it, you need a feed. otherwise you are just patching it while the feed admin(s) maintain it. |
| 16:46:56 | nikos | Disconnect: Frankly, you're release schedule is a bit extreme. On the other hand, surely you can find website hosting and it takes about 1 minute to create a directory and a Packages file with the ipkg tools. |
| 16:50:16 | Disconnect | nikos: website hosting is easy. website hosting without "wrappers" around everything (ala geocities, etc) is not as easy. |
| 16:51:56 | Disconnect | nikos: and so in unstable, if I release every few days thats extreme. agreed. but when we've got more than 15 or so maintainers, making releases as needed, the current system is going to grind to a halt. the admins have been talking about making familiar point releases -more- often, not less. which means that the faster a new package gets into the feeds, the more testing it gets and the faster it'll be ready for a release. and that isn't goin |
| 16:51:56 | Disconnect | g to happen when it requires 3 people to touch a package before it gets updated. |
| 16:52:00 | nikos | Disconnect: Surely your ISP provides a small amount of free website hosting? |
| 16:52:07 | Disconnect | nikos: direcpc and I don't think they do. |
| 16:52:22 | Disconnect | nikos: the dialup accounts I had did, but I'm dropping them today, so... |
| 16:54:29 | nikos | Disconnect: The reality of the situation is that any other solution is going to require serious time for someone, and no one has stepped up to the plate. |
| 16:57:21 | Disconnect | nikos: easy fix: each maintainer gets an ftp account on the master feeds box. each user 'tree' has the same layout as the feeds - current-unstable, new-unstable (basically, since releases are immutable) and maybe current-critical (for those things that don't need a release in and of themselves but are showstoppers for the package..?) |
| 16:57:31 | cworth | Disconnect: noone has ever said that the current situation, (emailing new packages to a7r), is permanent or scalable. |
| 16:57:48 | Disconnect | nikos: then when the feeds are updated (cron nightly?) check the list of maintained packages and move them into feeds from the user dir. |
| 16:58:11 | Disconnect | nikos: still requires admins for new packages and/or maintainers (which is, IMHO, a Good Thing) but existing packages can be updated as needed. |
| 16:58:12 | cworth | Disconnect: the only real problem is currently a buig in ipkg where the same package must not appear in a feed with two different versions. Feel free to fix this bug. |
| 16:58:28 | Disconnect | (and of course the current-critical would require admin intervention) |
| 16:59:03 | nikos | Disconnect: Right up a proposal and send it to a7r and the familiar list. a7r said he would be interested in concrete proposals and implementations. |
| 16:59:55 | | i heard a7r was the author of the familiar distribution or at mailto:a7r@andern.org or one of the more short-tempered admins for the handhelds channels. |
| 16:59:55 | Disconnect | ibot: a7r |
| 17:00:36 | Disconnect | nikos: currently, the feed package info is generated nightly based on whatever is in that dir at the time, right? |
| 17:00:42 | nikos | Disconnect: You're menu entry for ipaqstat is a little weird. |
| 17:01:01 | Disconnect | (eg if ipaqstat goes in right this second, it won't show in ipkg update until tomorrow..) |
| 17:01:05 | nikos | Disconnect: I don't think so, it is just updated by whoever adds/modifies a package. |
| 17:01:08 | Disconnect | nikos: yah it sorted funny. needs fixing. |
| 17:01:22 | nikos | Disconnect: Why do you need a Kill menu item? |
| 17:01:58 | nikos | Disconnect: I think I understand, we just need a better dock I guess. |
| 17:02:02 | cworth | Disconnect: currently it is updated by a user running a script. User intervention is currently only needed to prevent tickling the ipkg bug I mentioned. Implementing an automated system is quite easy once the bug is fixed. I just haven't had time to fix the bug. |
| 17:02:15 | nikos | Disconnect: ipkg seems fine. |
| 17:03:15 | cworth | Disconnect: actually, an easy workaround would be to fix the script that generates the Packages file, (currently ipkg-make-index), so that it only includes the latest version of each package. Then the ipkg bug would not be tickled and we could have an automated maintainer upload system. |
| 17:03:19 | Disconnect | cworth: ok cool |
| 17:03:23 | Disconnect | nikos: to make it go away. ;) |
| 17:04:06 | Disconnect | cworth: for i in packages; do ls $i\* | sort | tail -1 ..? |
| 17:04:16 | cworth | Disconnect: I've known these things forever, but I haven't had time to do them. Please feel free to help out here. |
| 17:05:06 | cworth | uhm... sorting package versions isn't quite that simple. But please feel free to try things. All of the scripts are in CVS. |
| 17:06:58 | bworth | cworth: will the package version sorting use the same rules as the menu sort routine in menu-tiny? |
| 17:07:57 | DragonEagle | is away: bbi20 |
| 17:08:19 | cworth | bworth: almost. The package version sorting has some weirdness that Debian invented. Code that is correct by definition, (ie. ripped out of dpkg), is in ipkg-compare-versions.c in CVS. |
| 17:11:16 | mike_ | question, how do I setup a ppp connection through cradle from the base familiar image? |
| 17:14:18 | | ppp is http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 17:14:18 | nikos | ibot: ppp |
| 17:14:22 | nikos | mike_: Read that. |
| 17:16:26 | mike_ | nikos: thanks, but the problem is there is no /sbin/pppd on the cramfs image |
| 17:16:29 | mike_ | :( |
| 17:17:49 | pattieja | is back (gone 00:54:19) |
| 17:22:54 | nikos | mike_: cramfs? |
| 17:23:18 | nikos | mike_: What are you installing? I assume you must mean jffs2 image. You might want to check that that bug is filed. |
| 17:23:20 | | gnats is at http://familiar.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/wwwgnats.pl |
| 17:23:20 | nikos | ibot: gnats |
| 17:23:36 | mike_ | nikos: familiar 0.5 |
| 17:23:50 | nikos | mike_: We don't use CRAMFS anymore. |
| 17:24:04 | mike_ | nikos: I meant, thee is no /sbin/pppd on the root image, sorry ;) |
| 17:24:27 | mike_ | was reading some doc while typing |
| 17:27:36 | mike_ | nikos: is there an alternative way of xferring the files when you don't have the pcmcia sleeve (will have it monday)? |
| 17:30:33 | nikos | mike_: You can setup usbnet, or you can just use zmodem. |
| 17:30:38 | | i heard usbnet was at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking |
| 17:30:38 | nikos | ibot: usbnet |
| 17:30:51 | mike_ | 3630, with serial cradle :( |
| 17:31:03 | nikos | mike_: zmodem then. |
| 17:31:15 | mike_ | does it require anything special on the ipaq? |
| 17:31:39 | nikos | mike_: the rz command, which I'm sure is there. |
| 17:31:54 | mike_ | yep, it is ;) |
| 17:32:00 | mike_ | fetches pppd |
| 17:43:28 | mike_ | nikos: thanks a lot!!! |
| 17:43:47 | nikos | mike_: sure |
| 18:01:05 | nikos | a7r: Hi, have you noticed slowness with C++ exceptions on sa1100? |
| 18:01:49 | a7r | nikos: I actually have never hit one no SA.. but that wouldn't surprise me in the least |
| 18:02:29 | nikos | a7r: Why so? |
| 18:02:50 | nikos | a7r: It's a huge difference, something like 30 times on the skiffcluster. |
| 18:03:05 | a7r | remember, it's probably not optimized in the way it does things, at all.. |
| 18:03:45 | nikos | a7r: I wouldn't have thought that sort of optimization would be processor specific. Shows what I know. |
| 18:04:21 | DragonEagle | is back (gone 00:56:25) |
| 18:06:17 | | rumour has it kernel is in /dev/mtdblock2 |
| 18:06:17 | gmkp | ibot kernel |
| 18:06:25 | cworth | a7r: greetings. |
| 18:06:34 | | linux is ruling the world of Open Source! http://www.linux.org |
| 18:06:34 | gmkp | ibot linux |
| 18:06:38 | a7r | cworth: how's it? |
| 18:06:39 | cworth | a7r: how would you feel about dillo in task-complete? |
| 18:06:58 | a7r | cworth: sounds good to me. |
| 18:07:04 | a7r | mingle needs to be in there, so does clerk.. |
| 18:07:55 | cworth | OK. So I've got these dependencies now: xstroke -> xstroke-help -> dillo. |
| 18:08:28 | a7r | that's rough. |
| 18:08:43 | a7r | I'd break the xstroke -> xstroke-help until we can enable Suggests. |
| 18:09:13 | cworth | yeah, but I'm not too concerened really. xstroke will have integrated help very soon. |
| 18:10:27 | a7r | nod. |
| 18:10:56 | a7r | I just don't want people incuring the dillo tax just to use xstroke.. |
| 18:12:28 | jg | a7r: is unstable up to date with Jamey's bits and the latest bootloader that doesn't need params? |
| 18:13:47 | cworth | a7r: of course. that would be extreme. I guess I will just drop xstroke -> xstroke-help. |
| 18:14:07 | a7r | what's his latest? it's using -hh6 and bootldr 2.15.15 right now.. |
| 18:14:34 | a7r | which should support the new params.. if someone wants to send me a documentation patch for doing it, I'll apply it. |
| 18:19:03 | cworth | a7r: I sent you an email regarding how to do it. |
| 18:19:21 | a7r | yup, I saw it. |
| 18:19:45 | mccarthy | how dow I use one of the gtk themes? |
| 18:19:52 | cworth | oh, "documentation patch", misread that. |
| 18:20:13 | jg | a7r,cworth: the remaining thing is to get a .16 bootloader that sets linuxargs and the partitions properly.... I'll go talk to Brian... |
| 18:20:17 | cworth | a7r: actually, I think you can just put the /boot/params stuff in the image and the user won't have to do much of anything. |
| 18:20:24 | cworth | jg: indeed. |
| 18:37:15 | | dneuer was last seen on #handhelds.org 9 hours, 47 minutes and 3 seconds ago, saying: nicknam3: well, #2 is a given, so don't knock yourself ;-) [Thu Sep 27 09:50:12 2001] |
| 18:37:15 | gmkp | ibot seen dneuer |
| 18:37:42 | Disconnect | a7r: you see the package-maintainer email I sent? (should have reread it after editing, stuff got missing - most critically, the fact that it ignores unlisted/misplaced packages) |
| 18:39:02 | Disconnect | glares at xstroke. |
| 18:39:27 | Disconnect | if I go top-left->bottom-right it goes !@# (correctly) then I go bottom left -> top right (/) and it goes , |
| 18:39:37 | Disconnect | wait. |
| 18:39:56 | Disconnect | display issue, nm. (the | cursor was overlaid on the / and left only the bottom showing) |
| 18:59:21 | MalteseFalcon | Hello all! |
| 19:04:05 | Disconnect | a7r: you see the package-maintainer email I sent? (should have reread it after editing, stuff got missing - most critically, the fact that it ignores unlisted/misplaced packages) |
| 19:06:18 | a7r | nod.. |
| 19:06:47 | a7r | doesn't sound like a bad idea, but if it's going to be a timed update style thing, I'd rather have a URL pulling mechanism, rather than an FTP upload system.. |
| 19:06:58 | a7r | means less accounts on handhelds.org.. and it's easier to add maintainers. |
| 19:09:07 | gls | a7r: thx for fixing my bugreport for fam5 |
| 19:09:43 | gls | crazie-insane-fast |
| 19:10:06 | a7r | which issue was yours? :) |
| 19:10:27 | gls | [checkers] |
| 19:10:35 | a7r | ah, werd. |
| 19:10:39 | gls | [and now it is easier-gone] |
| 19:10:40 | Disconnect | a7r: url pulling? that leaves out people w/o webspace.. unless it goes on the skiffs, which means authenticity is an issue. |
| 19:11:00 | a7r | Disconnect: we can arrange webspace.. |
| 19:13:43 | Disconnect | still seems harder than (mostly-empty non-login) ftp accounts. but its not my box, so.. |
| 19:13:59 | Disconnect | how would the url pulling work? |
| 19:15:54 | a7r | just a bunch of wgets of people's outgoing package directories.. then it could be the same as what you have setup.. |
| 19:16:02 | a7r | nelson has already done something similar to this. |
| 19:24:30 | Disconnect | hrm. (sorry was AFK) .. what about versioning? if current ver is 1.2-2, wget is looking for 1.2-3 or 1.3-1 .. what if its 1.3-2? |
| 19:26:30 | a7r | people should just put what they want downloaded in their outgoing directories.. let wget grab everything and have the download scripts sort things out. |
| 19:28:50 | Disconnect | so ftp instead of www? or does it require some form of auto-indexing from the webserver? (That leaves out most free web providers, sourceforge, etc. or at least, leaves them out w/o making an index page each time).. |
| 19:30:14 | a7r | it does require auto indexing.. which kind of bites. |
| 19:31:54 | Disconnect | why not a central repository of some sort? (wouldn't have to be the ftp methods as above - a small php script would do just as well).. also less overhead when creating the day's index, as the files are already local (or at least you have a list of known-changed files somewhere that can be handed to feeds, instead of trying every package every time..) |
| 19:32:48 | Disconnect | I also suspect it'll be a nightmare for authenticity - all it takes is someone to come up with a dinky program of some sort, be a maintainer, and start uploading other maintainer's packages via their outgoing dir... (since its grabbing whatever is there..) or will it check for ownership? |
| 19:34:02 | a7r | how would they add files to the maintainer's outgoing directory? |
| 19:36:32 | Disconnect | if its grabbing everything in (eg) www.myweb.com/~dis/familiar/outgoing/ then is it checking for package ownership, or just grabbing whats there? |
| 19:37:43 | Disconnect | authenticity is a big issue - the second someone replaces (eg) ssh with a hacked/patched version, ipaq-on-linux is gonna get the sh*t beaten out of it online. |
| 19:38:38 | a7r | there's nothing preventing me from requiring that the URLs downloaded from match the maintainers.. |
| 19:38:50 | a7r | using gpg is even a definite possibility. |
| 19:41:04 | Disconnect | hrm. that moves it to a less visible box, but chances are the gpg keys/etc are on those respective boxen (so the security issue is harder to control but less likely to come up..) what about a simple, small php (or perl, although I don't grok perl) script to run on https somewhere that just authenticates the maintainer and accepts uploads for each package they own? no more push, no more pull.. maintainer opens the page, authenticates, sends the |
| 19:41:04 | Disconnect | package and the md5sum (or gpg key, etc) and it gets handed to feeds to be included the next day. |
| 19:41:54 | cworth | a7r: would it make sense to mimic Debian? They've already wrestled with all of these issues. |
| 19:42:05 | Disconnect | maybe with an optional 'force' to request a forced update (can always set it so certain maintainers - eg kernel and/or X types, core system stuff) can force an update immediately instead of waiting overnight. |
| 19:42:29 | a7r | cworth: debian has an infrasture that I don't really want to unlesah on handhelds.org.. but they do have good ideas. |
| 19:45:04 | | Disconnect: what? |
| 19:45:04 | Disconnect | ibot: gtk-squished |
| 19:45:05 | | Disconnect: huh? |
| 19:45:05 | Disconnect | ibot: gtk-squish |
| 19:45:07 | | Disconnect: excuse me? |
| 19:45:07 | Disconnect | ibot: gtksquish |
| 19:45:08 | | Disconnect: huh? |
| 19:45:08 | Disconnect | ibot: gtksquished |
| 19:45:09 | Disconnect | damn |
| 19:45:14 | PamPy | Hmhhh .... can somebody give me a hint why I can't get to run irda anymore with familiar 2.4.7??? |
| 19:45:21 | | a7r: excuse me? |
| 19:45:21 | a7r | ibot: search squish |
| 19:45:47 | a7r | PamPy: What problem are you having? |
| 19:46:08 | a7r | looks at the time. |
| 19:46:12 | PamPy | All modules are loading fine ... |
| 19:46:35 | PamPy | but irattach /dev/ttySA2 -s starts and falls down emmedialtley |
| 19:46:45 | Disconnect | a7r: you interested in a php script to outline the central-repository idea? |
| 19:47:32 | a7r | Disconnect: I'd like to see anything you've got.. I'm still thinking about how it should be implemented. |
| 19:48:32 | Disconnect | a7r: I'll see if I can whip one up over the weekend (no time tonight, dunno tomorrow, etc...) |
| 19:49:23 | Disconnect | a7r: should be easy enough - authenticate, check packages and distribution versions, output dropdowns, validate form (package/dist), accept ftp, save to central location, ACK to user. |
| 19:50:30 | Disconnect | er s/ftp/file upload via form/ I meant |
| 19:51:16 | Disconnect | thereby keeping it out of ftp and other messyness. (is the box in question likely to have postgres installed? if not, flat-files all the way - not installing mysql at home just for this ;) ;) ..) |
| 19:53:13 | a7r | to be honest, I'm not really happy with a web-based form either.. I'd like everything to be possible from the command line.. |
| 19:53:31 | mattzz | PamPy: irtty is missing. |
| 19:53:45 | mattzz | PamPy: i filed this in GNATS already |
| 19:54:04 | a7r | mattzz: that's right.. |
| 19:54:08 | a7r | forgot about that GNAT. |
| 19:54:25 | mattzz | had to compile irtty.o the hard way... |
| 19:54:38 | Disconnect | a7r: easy enough to script the whole process using (eg) w3m. I suspect anyway. (although come to think of it, no way to do file upload w/ w3m.) |
| 19:55:11 | Disconnect | a7r: split it into 2 methods - one via web browser, one via script/ftp (put it in an incoming dir, then auth it via web script) |
| 19:55:21 | Disconnect | a7r: hrm. lemme explain better. ;) |
| 19:55:28 | Disconnect | a7r: standard method as above - web form, https, etc. |
| 19:55:40 | mattzz | anybody: is there any chance to get some sounds working with 2.4.7 |
| 19:56:33 | a7r | Disconnect: if it comes down to this, I'd rather people put up a bundle.tar that includes their packages.. it fixes the indexing problem, and makes it so only one file needs to get downloaded per maintainer. |
| 19:56:37 | Disconnect | a7r: alternate commandline method: ncftpput (or equiv) the file up, then wget https://feeds.server/upload_auth?user=1&pass=2&md5sum=21343343234&package=ipaqstat&newver=1.3&file=ipaqstat_1.3_arm.ipk&alreadyup=yes |
| 19:58:03 | Disconnect | yah bit when you have 500-750 packages, some of them on slow links, etc it'll take all night just to find out that there are no updates.. not to mention being expensive in cpu/bandwidth/etc.. whereas letting the maintainers control it turns that around - you only talk to 500 maintainers if all 500 have updates (and they talk to you, over the course of the day, instead of all in a row) |
| 19:58:22 | a7r | why all night? |
| 19:58:36 | a7r | oh, because people don't remove their bundles after they're downloaded once.. |
| 19:58:48 | a7r | that could be worked around.. |
| 19:59:16 | Disconnect | that, and if its on dialup/etc. 300 maintainers in .ru on dialup using dyndns .. timeouts at 60 seconds each.. 1 retry each.. |
| 19:59:26 | a7r | dude. |
| 19:59:49 | a7r | WHAT IF THE MAINTAINERS ARE USING UUCP!!! THEN IT WON'T WORK!! ;) There's only so much we can build cases for. |
| 20:01:11 | Disconnect | case: 90% of the world is on dialup. even those that aren't, most of them (cablemodems etc) can't accept incoming connections. polling each maintainer doesn't scale. you do -all- the work every night whether needed or not. the maintainers pushing updates -does- scale. you do the work throughout the day only when it IS needed.. |
| 20:01:44 | a7r | first of all.. most of the maintainers do have really highspeed net access.. |
| 20:02:06 | a7r | secondly, if a maintainer doesn't, chances are they can get an account on hh.org.. |
| 20:02:15 | Disconnect | (there are a bunch of ways of maintainer-push, whether ftp/web/mail/whatever..) |
| 20:02:22 | a7r | I'm not trying to save the world with this solution. |
| 20:02:39 | a7r | with our package sizes, mail would even work. |
| 20:03:25 | Disconnect | I'm still confused as to why polling everyone is better than letting the maintainers decide what gets updated when..? seems simpler to accept it (hell even an incoming directory and gpg - check the gpg signature against the package maintainer, include, otherwise store for examination/deletion) |
| 20:03:26 | a7r | If we're using gpg, we could use a push system with one FTP account, and authenticity determined by signatures. |
| 20:03:30 | Disconnect | heh |
| 20:03:52 | a7r | I don't want one ftp account per maintainer.. that's my issue. |
| 20:04:31 | a7r | and I'm not particularly interested in having to deal with a web form, whenever I want to stick packages up. |
| 20:04:46 | Disconnect | web forms solve that. custom app/script solves that. gpg and feed/incoming/current-unstable /new-unstable etc solves that. etc. |
| 20:04:55 | a7r | yup. |
| 20:04:57 | cworth | a7r: I second no web forms. |
| 20:05:13 | Disconnect | so see above - ncftpput ; wget https://1.2.3.4/validate_upload?user=&pass=&md5=&filename=&packagename=.. |
| 20:05:42 | Disconnect | that way you don't deal with a form any more than you do when you download a package. it just runs, and either prints an error page or a success page. |
| 20:06:21 | Disconnect | the only real advantage that method has over straight ftp-incoming dir parsing is the error display. find out now why it didn't work, instead of having to wait till tomorrow and bug the admins ;) |
| 20:06:49 | a7r | nod. |
| 20:07:06 | Disconnect | (or, for that matter, ftp-incoming with optional "did this get accepted" form - post the file, it'll get processed. if you want to maek sure it gets processed, ask the form to test it.) |
| 20:08:22 | a7r | OKay.. let me take a look at dupload, and we can talk about this some more.. |
| 20:08:36 | Disconnect | ok |
| 20:08:42 | Disconnect | almost time to go home anyway (10 mins) |
| 20:08:52 | Disconnect | drop me an email, not sure i'll have time to pop in tomorrow |
| 20:09:02 | a7r | nod. |
| 20:10:27 | Disconnect | as an aside, did ipaqstat make it into the 0.5pre feed yet? (since we have no 'did this work' form ;) ..) |
| 20:10:36 | Disconnect | s/yet/tonight that is |
| 20:10:48 | a7r | I got the message.. haven't uploaded it. |
| 20:11:14 | Disconnect | cool, so long as it got there ok ;0 |
| 20:11:16 | Disconnect | er ;) |
| 20:16:17 | | dneuer was last seen on #handhelds.org 11 hours, 26 minutes and 5 seconds ago, saying: nicknam3: well, #2 is a given, so don't knock yourself ;-) [Thu Sep 27 09:50:12 2001] |
| 20:16:17 | gmkp | ibot seen dneuer |
| 20:48:21 | sgodsell | is away: Got to go! |
| 20:57:29 | sjohnson | Crap. My headrware buttons seem to have stopped working on my old IPAQ.. |
| 22:44:23 | dneuer | is away: busy |
| 22:57:30 | Gus | has anyone got atd working to wake up their ipaq? |
| 23:29:51 | sgodsell | is back (gone 02:41:30) |
| 23:40:34 | sjohnson | is away: I've lost my mind, and I've gone to look for it... |
| 23:57:25 | sjohnson | is back (gone 00:16:51) |