| 00:26:43 | Dragon_noEagle | is back (gone 01:02:53) |
| 03:45:54 | zeek | O.o? |
| 03:54:17 | zeek | so out of curiosity, is it possible to use a hard drive as the package location for the ipkg tool and system files ... like the /usr dir |
| 04:04:29 | zeek | how would one take a screen shot? |
| 04:22:13 | Dragon_noEagle | is away: assimilation is futile, you will be resisted |
| 04:28:55 | dneuer | is back (gone 06:11:49) |
| 05:15:13 | dxz | anyone here ? |
| 05:23:10 | beeblebrox | dxz: yep |
| 05:25:41 | dxz | hey .. |
| 05:26:42 | dxz | i've install intimate so many times i lost track of the count .. |
| 05:27:22 | dxz | 's/install/installed/ |
| 05:29:19 | dxz | would you know about intimate ? |
| 05:46:37 | dxz | hmph .. guess ctrl-a-d |
| 06:00:00 | Dragon_noEagle | is back (gone 01:37:47) |
| 06:49:47 | beeblebrox | is away: Away! |
| 07:13:19 | DragonEagle | is away: good night all |
| 08:21:20 | beeblebrox | is back (gone 01:31:32) |
| 12:31:42 | jtm | anyone around? |
| 12:38:09 | nikos | jtm: yes |
| 12:46:53 | faralla | Hi all |
| 12:47:39 | faralla | I just installed the bootstrap-distribution of familiar. I only have a serial connection. How can I upload packages to the device with xmodem? |
| 12:48:53 | faralla | Anyone here? |
| 12:50:38 | nikos | faralla: Yes. |
| 12:50:48 | nikos | faralla: I would recommend using zmodem instead. |
| 12:51:04 | nikos | faralla: If you are logged in as root, it will just work and save the file to the current directory. |
| 12:51:20 | faralla | ahh ok.. |
| 12:53:42 | faralla | I cannot find the h3600-utils package :( Anyone could point me to a location? |
| 12:54:22 | nikos | faralla: What release did you install? |
| 12:54:37 | faralla | bootstrap |
| 12:54:46 | faralla | 0.4 |
| 12:56:12 | nikos | faralla: Where are you seeing h3600-utils referenced? |
| 12:56:53 | faralla | http://qpe.sourceforge.net/ipaq.html |
| 12:57:40 | nikos | faralla: That document is old. |
| 12:57:55 | faralla | I found them... |
| 12:58:05 | nikos | faralla: Don't worry about it until you are missing functionality or something doesn't work. Then let us know what isn't working. |
| 12:58:56 | nikos | faralla: Ah yes, sorry. I see it now. |
| 13:03:34 | faralla | ok, I installed the base QPE packages and rebooted. On serial console it wrote "Starting QPE", but nothing happened :( |
| 13:05:48 | Disconnect | weird. the dual sleeve 'feels' smaller and lighter than the single (its actually way bigger.. dunno weight) |
| 13:06:34 | Disconnect | maybe the shape at the back just fits my hand better (more square than the single, which is all curved and hard to get a decent hold on) |
| 13:08:57 | faralla | Everytime I install something it tells me, that the ssh-installation is pending.. I say that it should be installed, but the next time it asks again .. |
| 13:09:23 | Disconnect | faralla: there's a note in the install about that. you remove it from the pending directory (don't remember where that is off the top of my head) |
| 13:09:31 | faralla | ok |
| 13:14:27 | nikos | faralla: That's in the Familiar v0.4 installation instructions. |
| 13:15:08 | Disconnect | nikos: is it? thought it was in 0.5pre too. (if not, should be ;) ..) |
| 13:15:57 | nikos | Disconnect: That bug is gone. |
| 13:16:18 | nikos | Disconnect: At least I didn't have any leftover pending packages. |
| 13:16:36 | nikos | Disconnect: Although in this case, faralla is installing v0.4, so it's not immediately relevant. |
| 13:17:10 | faralla | I removed the pending file... seems to be ok now.. But I am still wondering why QPE is not starting up.. |
| 13:19:09 | nikos | faralla: Technically you need to talk to the QPE people about that. ;) |
| 13:19:17 | nikos | faralla: There is a #qpe I believe. |
| 13:19:55 | faralla | Sadly you are wrong :( |
| 13:20:40 | Disconnect | faralla: try rebooting? |
| 13:20:54 | faralla | Already did that.. |
| 13:21:29 | Disconnect | grr. so when did xstroke switch tab (up-right) and 'f' (left-down)..??? |
| 13:21:43 | nikos | Disconnect: Modes man, modes. |
| 13:21:48 | faralla | huh? |
| 13:22:55 | Disconnect | nikos: got modes. looking at the cheat sheet. "f" left-down or barelyup-left-down .. "numbers/punc in letter mode" tab up-right |
| 13:23:09 | Disconnect | (barelyup-left-down looks like candy-cane) |
| 13:30:08 | nikos | Disconnect: Well, there is no TAB in letter mode now. Go to punc or numerical mode. |
| 13:30:14 | faralla | How can I set my initial shell to bash? |
| 13:30:40 | nikos | faralla: ipkg install bash |
| 13:30:48 | nikos | faralla: Then check that /bin/sh links to /bin/bash |
| 13:31:09 | nikos | faralla: Then you can ipkg remove ash, and check the symlink again. |
| 13:31:58 | Disconnect | nikos: evidently. got issues with that tho - the basic 3 non-a-Z chars should be in # (or all?) modes: backspace, enter and tab... |
| 13:32:06 | Disconnect | looks around for cworth |
| 13:32:54 | Disconnect | ibot: message for cworth: can we bring back tab-in-letter-mode? the basic 3 non-a-Z chars should probably be in char (or all?) modes: backspace, enter and tab... |
| 13:33:03 | nikos | Disconnect: That's a configuration issue, you configure it any way you like. |
| 13:33:09 | Disconnect | erm. s/#/letter/ in my above ;) |
| 13:33:17 | nikos | Disconnect: That is NOT an issue for cworth. |
| 13:33:25 | Disconnect | nikos: yah but the default should be as useful as possible without getting overdone. |
| 13:33:39 | Disconnect | nikos: so who packaged it? who determines defaults? last I heard it was cworth. |
| 13:33:48 | nikos | Disconnect: We can argue for YEARS over what the default should be. DON'T EVEN START. |
| 13:35:11 | Disconnect | nikos: take a deep breath, grab coffee/tea/smoke/whatever. calm down. we are trying to make something that is USABLE. show me one other recognizer on -any- touchscreen platform (modeless or modal) that doesn't allow at LEAST backspace, tab and enter in default mode. |
| 13:35:19 | nikos | Disconnect: My suggestion for you would be to ipkg your own addon package to xstrokoe with your preferred default. Make it available and see what everyone thinks. |
| 13:35:37 | nikos | Disconnect: We are never all going to agree on what is useable. |
| 13:36:15 | nikos | Disconnect: I'm not sure but I don't think Palm has TAB in default mode. |
| 13:36:21 | Disconnect | nikos: but we -can- agree on what the other platforms do (and therefor what people will expect) |
| 13:37:39 | Disconnect | nikos: lemme check. not sure either, as the palm gui and text apps don't use tab for anything. (whereas wince, fam/intimate, etc all -do- use tab) |
| 13:37:42 | Disconnect | digs for his palm cheat sheet. |
| 13:38:16 | nikos | Disconnect: cworth has already been asked to conform reasonably closely to the Palm model. That is what he is doing for the default. |
| 13:38:40 | Disconnect | nikos: palm has next/last field in -any- mode. so what we need to conform to palm is tab _AND_ shift-tab in any mode. |
| 13:38:59 | Disconnect | hasn't got the big-list-of-palm-alternates .. just the little laminated business card thing. |
| 13:42:57 | Disconnect | (and nikos - when ipkg understands config files better, I might package one up as the 'works for me' defaults. but - as evidenced by the fact the wireless.opts I just finished configging got overwritten, ipkg isn't ready for dueling config files...) |
| 13:43:22 | Disconnect | "I removed xstrokes-dis and now xstroke won't work and I can't get it installed!".... |
| 13:50:47 | dneuer | hi |
| 13:58:17 | Disconnect | heya |
| 14:09:29 | faralla | It seems that ppp blocks my console. Is there anything i can do about that? |
| 14:22:23 | MrB | Anybody with 3com 3c589 network card experience? : I get the command 0x5800 did not complete error |
| 14:22:58 | pattieja | is away: I'm busy |
| 14:23:16 | pattieja | is back (gone 00:00:02) |
| 14:24:52 | Disconnect | MrB: is it cardbus or pcmcia? |
| 14:25:01 | MrB | pcmcia |
| 14:25:19 | MrB | D model to be exact |
| 14:33:06 | MrB | Disconnect: Is that good or bad ;-) |
| 14:34:15 | nikos | MrB: I've yet to hear a success report for the 3c589 or 3c574, you 3COM card owners need to get together and find someone who can work on that driver for the ipaq. |
| 14:34:16 | Disconnect | no idea.. if its pcmcia, it should be fixable. otherwise, it won't ever work on the ipaq.. |
| 14:34:33 | nikos | Disconnect: The card is fine, those modules simply don't work yet. |
| 14:34:54 | nikos | Disconnect: At least we "think" the cards are fine. We could be mistaken I suppose. |
| 14:35:09 | Disconnect | nikos: so I gathered. (dunno, haven't got one.. so other than making sure its not cardbus there's not much I can do..) |
| 14:35:24 | Disconnect | wonders.. do they work under wince? |
| 14:35:40 | nikos | MrB: I would send email to the ipaq@handhelds.org list and see if you can get together a list of people using either of those cards, etc. |
| 14:35:52 | MrB | I'm fairly new to this and not *familiar* yet, so I'm willing but not able... |
| 14:36:28 | nikos | MrB: I think some basic organizational work is in order first. No experience required. ;) |
| 14:36:52 | MrB | I'll post the message and see what happens... |
| 14:48:28 | jtm | nikos: Hey, I had to rebuild the ipaq and lost my suspend fix. What was it that you said to put in /sbin/pm_helper? |
| 14:49:02 | sjohnson | echo 1 > /proc/sys/pm/suspend |
| 14:49:48 | nikos | jtm: Did you download and install the latest v0.5? I didn't think that was necessary in the latest one. I could be wrong. |
| 14:50:01 | jtm | jtm: thank you.. where is it? |
| 14:50:05 | nikos | jtm: You might want to make sure you are fully up to date: ipkg update ; ipkg upgrade |
| 14:50:13 | nikos | jtm: The same place. |
| 14:50:35 | nikos | jtm: It was release Sept 27th |
| 14:51:09 | nikos | jtm: http://familiar.handhelds.org/familiar/feeds/unstable/install/H3600/install.html |
| 14:51:24 | jtm | jtm: yep. that's it |
| 14:51:37 | jtm | nikos: yes |
| 14:53:13 | nikos | jtm: Be sure to ipkg update ; ipkg upgrade. The hotplug package was updated the 1st. |
| 14:53:38 | jtm | nikos: oh...we are having problems with squid caching things |
| 14:53:48 | jtm | probably interfering.. |
| 14:53:57 | nikos | jtm: Download via FTP instead maybe? |
| 14:54:10 | jtm | nikos: yuck |
| 14:54:19 | pattieja | I think FTP gets cached too |
| 14:54:35 | jtm | nikos: I think I'm going to make James and pattieja figure out a workaround |
| 14:54:47 | nikos | jtm: I vote for making them fix it. :) |
| 14:55:23 | nikos | pattieja: If there is something on the hh end which is causing squid to falsely identify changes, let me know. It should be able to tell that the date is different. |
| 14:55:59 | nikos | jtm: I just checked, that is fixed in current hotplug package. |
| 15:01:44 | nikos | MrB: Feel free to use the wiki if you need webspace. |
| 15:03:21 | MrB | Nikos: Didn't think of that, thanks |
| 15:03:56 | friar | anybody here awake? |
| 15:04:03 | nikos | friar: yes |
| 15:04:29 | friar | cool, I'm looking for information on the latest familiar release. |
| 15:05:05 | dneuer | pattieja: how's it going? |
| 15:05:17 | pattieja | hello dneuer |
| 15:05:25 | pattieja | looking for the active source code for stowd |
| 15:05:38 | friar | I've just loaded on the .5 root and am now getting a kernel panic when it tries to boot. |
| 15:05:41 | pattieja | I think I may have figured out part of the problem with why the keyboard doesn't work currently |
| 15:05:43 | dneuer | pattieja: you should contact Andy C at CRL |
| 15:05:53 | Disconnect | friar: new bootldr? |
| 15:05:57 | dneuer | pattieja: even w/ the new kernel? |
| 15:05:59 | pattieja | is he on chat at all? |
| 15:06:01 | friar | 15.15 |
| 15:06:06 | pattieja | dneuer: yep |
| 15:06:11 | pattieja | dneuer: which new kernel? |
| 15:06:19 | dneuer | pattieja: I've never seen him here, but I have his email |
| 15:06:29 | dneuer | pattieja: aren't you running -hh9 now? |
| 15:06:42 | pattieja | nope. That was kind of a disaster |
| 15:06:48 | pattieja | hehe :) |
| 15:06:49 | nikos | friar: What model ipaq? |
| 15:07:03 | friar | 3650. |
| 15:07:06 | dneuer | pattieja: I have images in my feed which I know work on 3150 and 3650 |
| 15:07:11 | pattieja | we've got the iPAQ back up and running and have made a 'dd' backup image so we can play |
| 15:07:19 | nikos | friar: Did you check all md5sums? |
| 15:07:20 | pattieja | dneuer: ipkg's? |
| 15:07:20 | dneuer | pattieja: familiar 0.5 pre with -hh9 |
| 15:07:25 | friar | I didn't find a new kernel for the .5 pre |
| 15:07:28 | friar | yep |
| 15:07:34 | dneuer | pattieja: root fs images with the kernel and common modules in them |
| 15:07:39 | nikos | friar: The kernel is now in the root image. |
| 15:08:14 | nikos | friar: Double check the md5sums, and try flashing it again, carefully following the instructions. |
| 15:08:21 | friar | Yeah, so I saw. |
| 15:08:39 | pattieja | dneuer: my boss is getting ready to leave for a week and taking the iPAQ with him, so I won't get to play |
| 15:08:55 | nikos | friar: Did you download your images within the last few days? It was updated on the 27th of Sept. |
| 15:08:59 | friar | 'ok, I'll do so. I've tried loading the root image twice. |
| 15:09:09 | friar | yes, I downloaded it this morning. |
| 15:09:27 | dneuer | pattieja: ok. I was asking because with the new stowaway driver, supposedly you don't even really need stowd, just have to do 'cat /dev/stowaway' or something |
| 15:09:28 | nikos | friar: Might as well reload the bootloader again. |
| 15:09:42 | friar | k I'll try that as well. |
| 15:09:50 | pattieja | dneuer: right |
| 15:10:02 | nikos | friar: Be sure to do all the bootloader parameters again too. |
| 15:10:33 | friar | from the web page it didn't look like you are setting the partition sizes anymore? |
| 15:10:52 | nikos | friar: partition reset does that, you only need to set it manually if the default it not right. |
| 15:11:26 | nikos | friar: Feel free to check the result with partition show if you like. |
| 15:11:33 | friar | ah, ok... |
| 15:12:43 | friar | hmmm...anybody know what they should be? |
| 15:13:07 | friar | I have 3, flags 00000002, 00000000, 00000018..... |
| 15:13:14 | nikos | friar: If you can paste them in here, I can verify. |
| 15:13:27 | nikos | friar: Those flags are fine. |
| 15:13:49 | friar | argv[1]=show |
| 15:13:49 | friar | npartitions=00000003 |
| 15:13:49 | friar | bootldr |
| 15:13:50 | friar | base: 00000000 |
| 15:13:50 | friar | size: 00040000 |
| 15:13:50 | friar | end: 00040000 |
| 15:13:51 | dneuer | pattieja: well, the images are in my feed if you decide to try them: http://www.handhelds.org/~dneuer/feed |
| 15:13:52 | friar | flags: 00000002 |
| 15:13:54 | friar | params |
| 15:13:56 | friar | base: 00040000 |
| 15:13:58 | friar | size: 00040000 |
| 15:14:00 | friar | end: 00080000 |
| 15:14:02 | friar | flags: 00000000 |
| 15:14:03 | pattieja | dneuer: thanks |
| 15:14:04 | friar | root |
| 15:14:06 | friar | base: 00080000 |
| 15:14:08 | friar | size: 00F80000 |
| 15:14:10 | friar | end: 01000000 |
| 15:14:12 | friar | flags: 00000018 |
| 15:14:16 | nikos | friar: Looks fine. |
| 15:14:20 | dneuer | pattieja: or andyc's email is Andrew.Christian@compaq.com, he might know where the stowd source resides |
| 15:14:34 | friar | just double checked the md5sums, they are correct according to the webpage. |
| 15:14:40 | pattieja | dneuer: way cool |
| 15:14:58 | friar | flashing bootloader again now. |
| 15:19:19 | friar | I assume I have to "load root" again after I've reloaded the bootloader, yes? |
| 15:20:09 | nikos | friar: If you reload the bootloader, do it all. Every step. |
| 15:20:31 | friar | ok, makes sense. |
| 15:20:37 | friar | loading root again now. |
| 15:38:20 | nikos | Hi bworth |
| 15:38:28 | bworth | nikos: hi! |
| 15:53:25 | dneuer_away | is away: doing work I might get paid for someday |
| 16:03:26 | pattieja | anybody know how to get a dialup connection working from the iPAQ? |
| 16:28:17 | friar | excellent, everything worked that time. |
| 16:33:46 | nikos | friar: Great |
| 16:34:50 | friar | hmmm...is there something similar to sz/rz for uploading packages via the serial port? |
| 16:34:56 | friar | I don't have a network card handy. |
| 16:37:00 | sgodsell | is back (gone 37:53:47) |
| 16:40:19 | friar | ah, there they are. |
| 16:44:42 | nikos | friar: Or you can setup usbnet, or ppp. |
| 16:44:45 | | rumour has it usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking |
| 16:44:45 | nikos | ibot: usbnet |
| 16:44:47 | | ppp is http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/PPPHowto |
| 16:44:47 | nikos | ibot: ppp |
| 16:45:24 | nikos | friar: I HIGHLY recomend setting up some sort of networking. Familiar installation goes much more smoothly if ipkg can access the packages directly. |
| 16:48:32 | friar | yeah, well, now that I know my symbol 802.11 card isn't supported, I'm gonna hve to remember to bring my old cheepy netcard from home. :) |
| 16:51:16 | sgodsell | a7r what is the latest kernel in pre v0.5? |
| 16:52:31 | sgodsell | Does anyone know if -hh9 is in pre v0.5 now? |
| 16:53:07 | Disconnect | sgodsell: I'd find out, but my wireless nic stopped working after this morning's cardservices upgrade. |
| 16:53:29 | Disconnect | isn't positive its the nic. but "Sumthin ain't right"... |
| 16:53:30 | MalteseFalcon | jamey: Has my 3100 been delivered yet? |
| 16:54:02 | a7r | sgodsell: It isn't.. I need to test it and put it online tonight.. |
| 16:54:37 | sgodsell | a7r: thanks, I am going to feed that back to others |
| 16:54:52 | sgodsell | MalteseFalcon: jamey is on #handhelds.org |
| 16:55:55 | MalteseFalcon | OOOps... thanks.. wrong channel again... |
| 17:00:09 | friar | hmmm...I'm surprised you don't have it set up a ramdisk by default. |
| 17:02:32 | a7r | ramdisk? |
| 17:07:24 | friar | ah, never mind, /mnt/ramfs is what I was looking for. :) |
| 17:08:36 | friar | I'm used to older ram based file systems that are mounted statically and show up in df's output. |
| 17:08:51 | pattieja | is away: lunch |
| 17:22:30 | nikos | friar: What is the Symbol card? |
| 17:22:39 | nikos | friar: The chipset used in it I mean. |
| 17:24:27 | nikos | friar: Just because it's not working out of the box does not necessarily mean that it is not supported. |
| 17:27:42 | friar | well, it is a Symbol Spectrum24 card. the older 2Mbps version. |
| 17:28:07 | friar | I am not sure what chipset they've used in it. |
| 17:30:16 | nikos | friar: You might want to check, support is possible. |
| 17:35:37 | friar | nikos: check where? with Symbol or? |
| 17:45:27 | dneuer | is back (gone 01:52:02) |
| 17:45:31 | nikos | friar: With Symbol I suppose. |
| 17:50:43 | nikos | friar: Looks like there is a supported driver in pcmcia-cs. I'm not sure if we are currently building it for the ipaq though. |
| 17:51:52 | nikos | sjohnson: Any idea if you built spectrum24_cs when you built pcmcia-cs before? |
| 17:52:18 | sjohnson | I built pcmcia-cs to use kernel pcmcia services. no drivers were built |
| 17:56:19 | dneuer | nikos: are personal feeds not being mirrored any longer? |
| 18:03:32 | | bleeding feed is http://familiar.handhelds.org/~nelson/bleeding/ |
| 18:03:32 | nikos | ibot: bleeding feed |
| 18:03:44 | nikos | dneuer: Do you mean the bleeding feed? It's still there. |
| 18:04:00 | nikos | dneuer: I think it is updating automatically now. |
| 18:05:09 | dneuer | where is it? it's not in handhelds.org/pub/linux/dists/familiar/feeds |
| 18:05:22 | nikos | dneuer: Look at ibot's comment above. ;) |
| 18:05:45 | dneuer | nikos: why's it there? |
| 18:06:08 | nikos | dneuer: You would have to ask nelson and a7r that question. |
| 18:10:41 | BBond007 | i'm thinking of getting an ipac, but it has no keyboard. can you use a usb keyboard with it? |
| 18:11:20 | dneuer | BBond007: no, it's got no host controller; there is a Targus Stowaway keyboard which works with it, though |
| 18:12:03 | BBond007 | dneuer the keyboard is the major deciding factor if i get the ipac or wait for the sharp unit. |
| 18:12:24 | BBond007 | i'll look into that keyboard, thanks |
| 18:13:12 | dneuer | BBond007: well, the iPAQ has a good virtual keyboard (xkbd) for xwindows, and a good HW recognition package (xstroke), plus the Targus works, from what I hear |
| 18:13:19 | dneuer | has a stowaway, but hasn't used it |
| 18:17:04 | pattieja | is back (gone 01:08:14) |
| 18:17:21 | pattieja | dneuer: hmm |
| 18:17:23 | friar | nikos: ok, well, I think working up an arm version of that driver will be a project for a later date. |
| 18:18:52 | BBond007 | is 64mb of ram vs 32mb a huge deal? |
| 18:18:57 | dneuer | pattieja: hmm? |
| 18:19:30 | friar | nikos: I'll just wait till this evening when I'm at home and can use my full network connection off my main linux boxes. |
| 18:20:47 | friar | dneuer: I've also heard of success stories with the Twiddler2 from handykey.org |
| 18:21:23 | pattieja | dneuer: keyboard but no usey |
| 18:21:41 | friar | dneuer: err...handykey.com...sorry. |
| 18:24:02 | friar | BBond007: depends on what you use the pda for. if you're like me and don't want to carry around an extra mp3 player, then yes that is VERY important, but if all you do is store names/dates, etc, then you'll probably never notice a space limit. |
| 18:24:16 | dneuer | friar, BBond007: I almost mentioned the twiddler, but I haven't seen it mentioned in a while |
| 18:25:07 | dneuer | pattieja: all of my time has been spent getting basic stuff working on the 31xx's, and answering questions here |
| 18:25:20 | pattieja | dneuer: :) |
| 18:25:21 | friar | dneuer: I've never used my Twiddler with my iPaq, so I can't really say how well it works. |
| 18:26:27 | BBond007 | friar but you could put the mp3's on the compaq flash? |
| 18:27:59 | BBond007 | i really like the microdrive idea... |
| 18:29:19 | BBond007 | also, has anyone ported and cool netwok playable games? like NiL or something? |
| 18:30:15 | pattieja | BBond007: does Quake I count? |
| 18:30:28 | pattieja | and I think pboom (DOOM clone) |
| 18:30:47 | BBond007 | pattieja i gues soo... what do you do for storage for a game like that? nfs? |
| 18:31:00 | pattieja | that or the 1GB microdrive (CF) |
| 18:31:54 | BBond007 | yeah, i'm going to need that microdrive... i had better sell my iopener crapola i'll need some more funds |
| 18:32:05 | frowies | BBond007: Note that if you have Dual sleeve you could buy Kingston 2Gb PC Card, aprox. U$S 240 |
| 18:32:33 | friar | bbond007: I'm just starting into my linux install on the iPaq, up till now I've been doing things in WinCE. My mp3's are all downloaded one at a time into ram, played and then deleted. |
| 18:32:57 | dneuer | BBond007: the Sharp keyboard really doesn't look all that useable |
| 18:33:05 | dneuer | BBond007: I don't see that its any better than xkbd |
| 18:33:18 | dneuer | BBond007: unless you can touch-type with your thumbs |
| 18:33:45 | BBond007 | i been working with a nanoEngine so far... |
| 18:35:15 | BBond007 | but i want a handheld. but that sharp one i have actually held before. it was running tao's elate on top of linux. |
| 18:35:35 | BBond007 | but try to buy one.... |
| 19:00:26 | [mike] | is it normal that suspend+resume seem to kill everything on the iPaq? |
| 19:01:10 | a7r | no. |
| 19:01:54 | [mike] | it looks like it kills the library stuff |
| 19:02:07 | [mike] | nothing starts until I reset it, and everything up dies if I use it |
| 19:02:37 | [mike] | familiar v0.5 on a 3630 |
| 19:03:36 | nikos | [mike]: That's definitely not normal, what version bootloader? |
| 19:04:00 | nikos | [mike]: I'm assuming you are referring to contents of JFFS2 and not RAMFS? |
| 19:04:10 | [mike] | jffs2 |
| 19:05:43 | [mike] | mom, firing my serial console to look at the bootloader version |
| 19:06:32 | [mike] | 2.15.15 |
| 19:07:01 | [mike] | s/./- |
| 19:11:07 | [mike] | so I start scream.py from the commandline (or from GUI, does the same), stop the playback, suspend the iPaq, resume it and... |
| 19:11:17 | [mike] | lsmod: command not found |
| 19:11:24 | [mike] | same with modprobe |
| 19:11:37 | [mike] | ls gives Input/output error |
| 19:12:24 | [mike] | everything using libs is failing, but the integrated commands (like echo) work fine |
| 19:13:09 | [mike] | even init is failing, so I have to reset the iPaq with the small button |
| 19:13:32 | nikos | [mike]: Does uname work? uname -a? |
| 19:13:46 | [mike] | uname: input/output error |
| 19:14:01 | nikos | [mike]: I think you may have corrupted images. Download everything again, check md5sums, and reinstall. |
| 19:14:23 | [mike] | aaargh! |
| 19:14:36 | [mike] | 13th flash in less than 10 days! ;) |
| 19:14:58 | [mike] | seriously, as long as it is not suspended and resumed, it works supa dupa fine |
| 19:18:33 | [mike] | except for the stowaway keyboard... it is not working ATM but that's no big deal |
| 19:21:08 | [mike] | ok, the md5sum of my task-bootstrap is exactly the same as the one on the install page |
| 19:21:38 | nikos | [mike]: Be sure to check the bootloader. |
| 19:22:30 | [mike] | same md5 too |
| 19:25:39 | [mike] | nikos: would a forced reinstall of apm stand a chance of fixing it? |
| 19:25:48 | nikos | [mike]: I would also recommend setting up networking and 'ipkg update ; ipkg upgrade' as soon as you can too. |
| 19:25:57 | nikos | [mike]: I don't think it is that simple. |
| 19:26:17 | [mike] | nikos: ipkg upgrade done last nite after the reflash |
| 19:27:29 | [mike] | after the reset: |
| 19:28:12 | [mike] | aname -a gives "Linux Familiar 2.4.7-rmk3-np1-devfs #6 Fri Sep 21 ..." |
| 19:28:16 | [mike] | uname even |
| 19:33:55 | nikos | [mike]: OK, that confirms you are using the same kernel I am. |
| 19:37:02 | [mike] | wow, ppp not working because of missing dependencies file |
| 19:37:10 | [mike] | and segfault when I run depmod -a |
| 19:37:15 | [mike] | sthg fscked up ;) |
| 19:40:11 | [mike] | eek, missing modules.dep and depmod segfaulting... chicken and egg problem ;) |
| 19:42:57 | [mike] | I guess something was fucked up during a reset :( |
| 19:45:43 | nikos | [mike]: Shouldn't (can't) happen, this is a journalled filesystem. |
| 19:46:12 | [mike] | agreed, but there is no /var/run/modules.dep |
| 19:46:18 | [mike] | and depmod segfaults |
| 19:46:20 | Disconnect | nikos: doesn't ensure data integrity, just FS integrity.. |
| 19:46:34 | Disconnect | nikos: (but /var/run is ramfs, so ...) |
| 19:46:35 | [mike] | and that still worked fine this morning |
| 19:47:42 | nikos | Disconnect: Data integrity can only be compromised on written files though, none of these files should have been written to. |
| 19:48:45 | Disconnect | nikos: true. (although I've had the occasional missing/corrupted library, most of that was probably jffs2 bugs - around the dawn of jffs2-in-familiar, 0.4pre and the like) |
| 19:48:55 | nikos | Disconnect: I'm not specifically speaking about /var/run/modules.dep, clearly that's toast over reset. |
| 19:49:09 | [mike] | checked all packages, they're all up to date |
| 19:49:25 | nikos | Disconnect: There have been bug fixes since then yes, you should be reporting any failures. |
| 19:49:28 | [mike] | agreed for /var/run stuff... the problem comes from depmod segfaulting |
| 19:49:42 | nikos | [mike]: I meant to update AFTER reflashing. |
| 19:50:13 | [mike] | what's the point in reflashing, since the md5sum is the same.... shows my original image was not corrupted |
| 19:50:23 | nikos | [mike]: md5sum of what? |
| 19:50:30 | nikos | [mike]: Not the contents of FlashROM. |
| 19:50:39 | [mike] | oh... |
| 19:50:41 | [mike] | ;) |
| 19:51:07 | [mike] | 13th flash in less than 10 days... make that +1 ;) |
| 19:51:14 | nikos | [mike]: All I can tell you is many of us are running v0.5 and NONE of us are reporting your behaviour. Either your flash contents are fscked or you have a hardware problem. |
| 19:52:33 | [mike] | nikos: worked 100% ok with CE (I hate to say that... since it's coming from MS) |
| 19:52:43 | [mike] | so I discount the hardware problem |
| 19:53:45 | nikos | [mike]: Well, the hardware problem could have started AFTER you removed CE. Total speculation, but FlashROM could be deteriorating prematurely. I DON'T think that's the case. Which is why I suggest starting afresh. |
| 19:54:18 | [mike] | but the flash is fresh from last nite... I mean it's not even been 24 hours since the last reflash |
| 19:54:39 | [mike] | and the suspend problem was there from day 1 |
| 19:55:15 | [mike] | it's only today that I took time to investigate it from the serial console to check what was going on |
| 19:55:51 | nikos | [mike]: There are multiple parts of the flashing process, each one of those has the possibility of corruption. |
| 19:56:25 | [mike] | ok, I reflash it... but I don't think a 14th reflash will fix a problem that was there from reflash 1 |
| 19:56:42 | nikos | [mike]: OK, let's step back a minute. |
| 19:56:51 | [mike] | I'm even ready to reflash it to CE, just to test for 2 hours |
| 19:56:56 | nikos | [mike]: I did not understand you to mean that you have been flashing v0.5b 13 times. |
| 19:57:13 | [mike] | I did, because I tested a lot of configs |
| 19:57:23 | nikos | [mike]: You've alse reflashing the bootloader and setup the bootloader parameters each time? |
| 19:57:32 | [mike] | yep |
| 19:57:40 | [mike] | each time restarting from scratch |
| 19:57:43 | nikos | [mike]: What do you mean by lots of configs? |
| 19:57:57 | [mike] | familiar is to be the standard replacement of CE in my company |
| 19:58:20 | [mike] | so I tested several configs to see which one was the best looking and the most practical... |
| 19:58:27 | [mike] | familiar 0.5 + qpe |
| 19:58:30 | a7r | cool. |
| 19:58:34 | [mike] | familiar + pocketlinux |
| 19:58:38 | nikos | [mike]: Are you making your own jffs2 images? |
| 19:58:39 | [mike] | familiar + bb |
| 19:58:48 | [mike] | not yet, will really soon |
| 19:58:55 | [mike] | adn so on... |
| 19:59:09 | [mike] | I had to try all combos to see what would be the best for the users |
| 19:59:24 | a7r | [mike]: why not just use WinCE? |
| 19:59:32 | [mike] | I'm manageing a project that is basically to kick M$ out of the company |
| 19:59:39 | a7r | nice. |
| 19:59:39 | [mike] | from servers to handhelds |
| 19:59:43 | nikos | [mike]: Stop and test after doing nothing more than flashing the v0.5b bootstrap. After that, I can't vouch for what those other guys are doing to your ipaq. |
| 20:00:06 | a7r | [mike]: What do you guys use your handhelds for? |
| 20:00:26 | [mike] | depends of the dept |
| 20:00:48 | [mike] | mostly for IT guys... remote access and cool geek toy |
| 20:01:14 | a7r | cool. |
| 20:01:23 | [mike] | we have a complete wireless office and a lappy is a bit heavy in that env ;) |
| 20:01:25 | a7r | for that type of thing, you'd probably want straight Familiar v0.5. |
| 20:01:37 | a7r | QPE and PocketLinux would just get in your way. |
| 20:02:04 | [mike] | agreed, QPE looks nice but is kinda evil (floating point mp3 decoding) ;) |
| 20:02:22 | [mike] | but for users, it looks like a cool replacement of CE |
| 20:02:34 | [mike] | for the IT team, BB is more like it |
| 20:03:06 | a7r | I'd use ion instead of BB.. |
| 20:03:20 | [mike] | I've also tried ion |
| 20:08:31 | [mike] | but couldn't get myself used to it |
| 20:10:30 | [mike] | flashing after a redownload (forgot to copy back the jff2 image from linux to windows) |
| 20:11:59 | [mike] | a7r: and pocketlinux is cute but... looked kinda useless when I tried it |
| 20:12:20 | a7r | yeah. |
| 20:12:40 | [mike] | but very cute ;) |
| 20:15:20 | [mike] | while I'm reflashing... can someone tell me what are the cute little icons on the screenshots of BB ? (keyboard, ... in yellow on top left) |
| 20:15:36 | [mike] | and how do I get them, too ;) |
| 20:15:52 | [mike] | I'm more of an E user... first time I play with BB |
| 20:19:26 | nikos | [mike]: That's old fscrib, no long being maintained. |
| 20:19:39 | nikos | [mike]: xstroke is it's replacement. |
| 20:20:03 | [mike] | too bad, looked so cute |
| 20:20:21 | [mike] | hmm, gonna try icewm later tonite ;) |
| 20:21:06 | [mike] | been *ages* since I've used it ;) |
| 20:22:35 | [mike] | I wonder if I would be able to cross E for the iPaq... would be funny and slow as hell |
| 20:32:35 | [mike] | ok, booting in the freshly reflashed iPaq |
| 20:33:40 | [mike] | how do I suspend it? |
| 20:34:36 | sjohnson | You get a long piece of rope, tie it around your iPAQ and then... |
| 20:35:42 | sjohnson | [mike]: The power button or echo 1 >/proc/sys/pm/suspend from a command line. |
| 20:40:05 | nikos | a7r: Oh, almost forgot. Have you looked at building spectrum24_cs when you build pcmcia-cs? |
| 20:41:27 | [mike] | nikos: how do I suspend it without apm installed? |
| 20:42:01 | sjohnson | [mike]: echo 1 >/proc/sys/pm/suspend from a command line. |
| 20:42:41 | nikos | [mike]: What sjohnson says is good for a test. |
| 20:43:00 | [mike] | that works fine after a resume |
| 20:43:03 | nikos | [mike]: Once you setup networking, ipkg update ; ipkg upgrade will update the hotplug package so that pushing the button works. |
| 20:48:01 | [mike] | doing ssh |
| 20:51:17 | [mike] | rebooting the desktop to a decent OS |
| 21:00:23 | [mike] | btw, could you modify the /etc/ppp/options file to have defaultroute and noauth ? |
| 21:02:14 | [mike] | ok, hotplug upgraded |
| 21:04:02 | dyllbert | hello there......May I ask a question? |
| 21:04:21 | jg | 42 |
| 21:04:41 | dyllbert | I seem to have some unsupported pcmcia ethernet cards. Is there a way to go strait to 802.11b |
| 21:04:41 | [mike] | lol |
| 21:04:53 | [mike] | jg: good one ;) |
| 21:05:18 | jg | hey, what do you expect from someone completely drugged out? |
| 21:05:18 | [mike] | nikos: the button succesfully suspends and resumes... no bug up to now |
| 21:05:28 | [mike] | nikos: now doing task-x |
| 21:06:19 | dyllbert | I just loaded the root image task-bootstrap but I get all kinds of errors when I insert my ethernet card |
| 21:07:29 | dyllbert | 3com 10/100 + 56k combo card. my other card does not get any response |
| 21:08:38 | [mike] | jg: either H2G2G or Pythons references ;) |
| 21:10:01 | [mike] | dyllbert: dunno, was not able to get my 3com 10/100 pcmcia to work yet... |
| 21:10:44 | dyllbert | Thanks.... |
| 21:11:11 | dyllbert | Did you start your load with an ethernet card? What model? |
| 21:11:23 | [mike] | nope, my load was over serial |
| 21:11:54 | [mike] | and got my 802.11b working at the end of the install |
| 21:12:01 | dyllbert | hmmm.....bootstrap or complete........ |
| 21:12:15 | [mike] | bootstrap + ppp + ssh |
| 21:12:20 | dyllbert | which 802.11b card......any cisco users here? |
| 21:12:48 | [mike] | one from the office... EnterLink or someting like that |
| 21:13:23 | [mike] | EnterSys maybe |
| 21:13:35 | dyllbert | I understand the load root task-bootstrap.jffs2.....What did you send it to upload ppp and ssh |
| 21:13:44 | [mike] | zmodem |
| 21:14:02 | [mike] | and then ipkg the zmodem'd packages |
| 21:14:25 | [mike] | then open a ppp link between the desktop and the ipaq and install the rest over ppp |
| 21:15:03 | dyllbert | I'm f--n clueless on zmodem sorry......I will give it a shot....Thanks |
| 21:15:15 | [mike] | boot onto the bootstrap and do a zmodem send from your desktop |
| 21:15:27 | [mike] | the ipaq should pick it up bt itself |
| 21:15:43 | dyllbert | gotcha....I am trying it now |
| 21:17:41 | [mike] | noooo... don't tell me steve removed his icewm package! |
| 21:18:03 | [mike] | cries |
| 21:19:54 | [mike] | nikos: would it be also possible to add scream to the package list of unstable? |
| 21:20:00 | | AAHH! |
| 21:20:00 | [mike] | ibot scream |
| 21:20:03 | | AAHH! |
| 21:20:03 | [mike] | ibot scream? |
| 21:20:08 | | [mike]: what? |
| 21:20:08 | [mike] | ibot scream.py |
| 21:20:43 | | [mike]: sorry... |
| 21:20:43 | [mike] | ibot URL scream |
| 21:20:48 | | [mike]: excuse me? |
| 21:20:48 | [mike] | ibot URL scream.py |
| 21:20:52 | | [mike]: excuse me? |
| 21:20:52 | [mike] | ibot URL mp3 |
| 21:20:55 | | [mike]: huh? |
| 21:20:55 | [mike] | ibot mp3 |
| 21:22:30 | dyllbert | Mike, You da man! Thanks for your help. I am making some progress now....... |
| 21:30:03 | [mike] | with X and BB up&running |
| 22:20:36 | friar | ok, so how does one go about changing the passwords on a familiar distro? please don't tell me it is copy and paste from some other box?!? |
| 22:21:51 | nikos | friar: There really isn't currently multiuser support, so passwd has not been included so far. If you want to edit it, yes, edit the file manually. |
| 22:22:34 | friar | nikos: oh scary....ok.... |
| 22:23:06 | friar | remind me NOT to run sshd as a standard service then. |
| 22:25:55 | friar | which auth scheme is being used? i.e. what should I be using to generate new passwords? |
| 22:26:15 | sjohnson | friar: DES |
| 22:26:20 | nikos | friar: I think either should work, certainly DES would. |
| 22:26:32 | friar | k |