| 00:05:43 | Verxion | suppose not |
| 00:05:44 | Verxion | :( |
| 00:19:08 | | dc was last seen on #handhelds.org 2 hours, 6 minutes and 50 seconds ago, saying: I will be back on saturday afternoon. [Fri Mar 15 22:12:18 2002] |
| 00:19:08 | mpakula | ibot seen dc |
| 00:53:45 | moray | Verxion: if you want to run over nfs, what do you need different from normal Debian? |
| 07:12:49 | rovitotv | Anybody in here have a IPAQ 3800 series and installed familiar on it? |
| 07:14:20 | | h3800 status is http://handhelds.org/projects/h3800.html |
| 07:14:20 | jacques | ibot: h3800 status |
| 07:14:27 | jacques | rovitotv: have you seen that page |
| 07:16:31 | rovitotv | jacques: yes, I have seen that page. I actually have it working, but had some problems. I used task-bootstrap-2.4.17-rmk4-hh5.jffs2 and ipkg was broken. To get it to work I installed the regular 2.4.16 task then upgraded the kernel to 2.4.17 by using the ipkg files. So is that a bug and should I file a report, or did I do something stupid? |
| 07:17:03 | rovitotv | report = bug report |
| 07:17:09 | jacques | rovitotv: hmm that's beyond me, maybe someone on #handhelds.org knows |
| 07:17:43 | rovitotv | jacques: ok I will try there thanks |
| 07:44:33 | Gabe_ | anyone having keyctld segfault on run? |
| 07:45:03 | pigeon | gabe_ yes, it's a bug in keyctld, use buttond instead :) |
| 07:45:09 | Gabe_ | ah, ok |
| 07:45:19 | | rumour has it buttond is an ipaq button daemon which allows you to setup both single and multiple button press combinations to run a program. Example one press to increase volume, two presses to decrease volume, or record then calendar button to turn on the backlight. http://pigeond.net/ipaq/buttond/ |
| 07:45:19 | pigeon | ibot: buttond |
| 07:45:37 | Gabe_ | ah, excellent |
| 07:45:59 | Gabe_ | <heart> his new ipaq with fam 0.5.1 :) |
| 07:47:13 | Gabe_ | i think i'll need to get a 3850 when the SD slot is better supported |
| 07:49:30 | Gabe_ | i was drolling over my friends' zaurus today... kinda nice to have CF and SD slots |
| 12:01:09 | mattzz | hi folx |
| 16:17:26 | sledgesledge | Hi, I have a question. Is there a way to put some big package like JRE into ROM? using jffs2 or cramfs? Thx |
| 16:18:19 | sledgesledge | The reason I want to do that is I don't have any CF card and I want to save some RAM space |
| 16:27:24 | sachac | sledgesledge: Sure, no problem. |
| 16:27:39 | sachac | sledgesledge: Oh, well, at least the files can be in ROM... |
| 16:28:48 | sachac | sledgesledge: jffs2 makes your whole ROM available as, well, /. /tmp is a tmpfs, so it takes up a bit of your RAM, and of course RAM is RAM. |
| 16:30:44 | moray | but I imagine the standard JRE's quite large... - people have definitely had Java going on ipaqs before though |
| 16:32:06 | sledgesledge | Since I got a iPAQ with 32MB's ROM and Familiar won't take the whole space. I should have more than 16MB's ROM available. Am I right? |
| 16:32:56 | sledgesledge | sachac: Thank you. Can you tell me where to find related info about how to do it? |
| 16:33:33 | Kero | otherwise, there is kaffe. |
| 16:33:37 | | well, kaffe is http://httpd.chello.nl/k.vangelder/ipaq/kaffe.for.X/ |
| 16:33:37 | Kero | ibot, kaffe |
| 16:34:14 | sachac | sledgesledge: Actually, it's sorta automatic. |
| 16:34:32 | sachac | sledgesledge: If you say "mount" on your iPAQ, you'll notice that the mtdblock (flash) is mounted on /... |
| 16:35:04 | moray | Kero: is there a kaffe ipk around (I know there's a package in Debian) |
| 16:35:12 | sachac | sledgesledge: ... so anything you store on that particular filesystem (minus the parts that you mounted, of course) is okay. |
| 16:35:17 | sachac | moray: ipkg can install debs. |
| 16:35:24 | sachac | moray: Isn't it lovely? Grab the arm packages. |
| 16:35:28 | Kero | moray: it is in my feed. |
| 16:35:29 | sledgesledge | Kero: But I want a JRE for 1.3 |
| 16:35:53 | Kero | sledgesledge: then kaffe is of no use for you, sorry... |
| 16:35:57 | moray | Kero: ah, yes, I see on that page it mentions one now anyway :) |
| 16:36:29 | Kero | thinks (not sure) Jukka Santala made a kaffe ipkg for awt on framebuffer. |
| 16:37:12 | moray | sachac: yes, but you don't necessarily want everything that comes in the Debian package... - actually, I don't think ipkg does this yet, but there's no reason it couldn't be given a list of paths to exclude from installing (like man pages, docs, etc.) |
| 16:37:30 | sledgesledge | sachac: THx |
| 16:39:31 | sachac | moray: You could ar x the deb, fiddle around with control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz, repack it (you can use tgz to make it an ipk)... |
| 16:40:21 | sachac | moray: Orrrr... you could poke around ipkg, which may or may not still be a shell script (it's turning into C really soon, or is already C)... |
| 16:41:13 | moray | the ipkg-unstable package has the C version |
| 16:41:24 | sledgesledge | Sorry. I am a little confused. When I do "ipkg install". Will the files goto RAM or ROM? |
| 16:41:44 | moray | ROM generally (unless you tell ipkg to put them somewhere else) |
| 16:44:32 | sledgesledge | moray: Oh. I thought it goes to RAM before. (Because software installed in CE will goes to RAM, right?) |
| 16:45:45 | Kero | old sheel version of ipkg unpacks into /tmp, then saves to ROM. |
| 16:46:02 | moray | CE keeps the contents of RAM over resets; Familiar doesn't do that unless you set up nvrd (non-volatile ram disk) |
| 16:46:19 | Kero | Don't know about the new C version (which has been released yesterday) |
| 16:46:31 | sachac | Kero: Oh, so it's out already! |
| 16:46:34 | sachac | Time to upgrade... |
| 16:46:46 | Kero | use 0.98, not 0.99 |
| 16:46:57 | sachac | Kero: Mmm? |
| 16:47:00 | Kero | 0.99 has a non-executable /usr/bin/ipkg |
| 16:47:12 | Kero | like, probably stripped for the wrong architecture. |
| 16:49:43 | sledgesledge | moray: I installed Oracle9i and EVM on a CE iPAQ b4, but everything is gone after a reset. I assume it won't happen on my Familiar iPAQ since everything is in ROM? |
| 16:50:34 | sachac | Kero: Ouch. |
| 16:50:50 | sachac | sledgesledge: <nod> |
| 16:50:54 | sachac | sledgesledge: At least I think so... |
| 16:51:17 | Kero | on hard reset, CE looses RAM, too. |
| 16:51:26 | Kero | i.e. disconnect battery. |
| 16:51:32 | moray | sledgesledge: (yes) |
| 16:52:21 | sachac | Kero: Linux isn't lost on a hard reset (err, the switch near the bottom of the iPAQ), but does it get wiped out if you leave it uncharged for <long time>? |
| 16:52:25 | Kero | Linux uses only flash for persistent storage, but ramfs is used for /tmp and /var already (which is lost on reboot) |
| 16:52:58 | sachac | Kero: But oh, yeah, CE loses RAM on battery dead. |
| 16:53:18 | sledgesledge | Thank you all |
| 16:53:27 | sachac | Kero: I guess it isn't, because WinCE stayed on my Jornada no matter how long I left it off... |
| 16:54:45 | Kero | Both OS's are in flash themselves, so remain there longer than even a very good floppy disk lasts. |
| 16:55:33 | sledgesledge | Again, if I install JRE and I want to remove some classes from lib. Can I do that simply using "rm"? Isn't ROM read only? |
| 16:55:55 | Kero | sledgesledge: iPAQ has RAM and flash. |
| 16:56:08 | Kero | flash survives, dunno, about 100000 rewrites. |
| 16:56:20 | moray | sledgesledge: it's not really ROM - actually, most 'ROM' isn't these days |
| 16:56:36 | sachac | sledgesledge: jffs2 allows you r/w access. Isn't it cool? |
| 16:56:39 | Kero | dwmw implemented jffs2 for iPAQ, which is perfect. |
| 16:56:55 | sachac | agrees with Kero. |
| 16:57:19 | Kero | So if you know what can be thrown away from JRE, a simple `rm` will do the trick. |
| 16:57:50 | moray | sledgesledge: jffs2 also does clever things like spreading out the writes equally over the space, so that it all gets used equally (otherwise the same bit might get used far more often and go wrong eventually) |
| 16:57:51 | sledgesledge | Oh yeah. I saw jffs2 has (rw) access when I type "mount". It confused me a lot b4. |
| 16:59:41 | sledgesledge | jffs2 rocks. :) |
| 17:59:59 | Disconnect | cworth: I think I have a check-parents patch, but it won't compile on skiffs or on portaskiff (and my intimate setup uses a different libc, doing an update to see if it gets better) |
| 19:11:24 | sgorf | Where can I get the config file for the current kernel in familiar? |
| 19:13:13 | a7r- | sgorf: from hh.org CVS |
| 19:13:50 | sgorf | a7r-: Thanks :) I don't suppose you know if CVS can checkout just a single file? |
| 19:13:55 | a7r- | it can. |
| 19:14:26 | a7r- | it might be easier to just check out all the configs though, and pick which one you want. |
| 19:15:11 | sgorf | I've got an H3600, I'm just trying to get an identical kernel source to the one used to build the familiar it's running |
| 19:18:07 | sgorf | a7r-: Thanks, I've got it :) |
| 19:18:07 | sachac | sgorf: Oh, you'll want the stuff in defconfig, probably... quite useful. |
| 19:18:22 | sgorf | defconfig? |
| 19:18:42 | sachac | sgorf: err, arch/arm/def-configs/h3600 ? =) |
| 19:18:56 | sgorf | Ah right, that's what I just pulled, thanks :) |
| 19:18:57 | sachac | sgorf: That one is preconfigured for the 3600 and shouldn't need lots of tweaking. |
| 19:19:14 | sgorf | sachac: OK, thanks. |
| 19:19:23 | sgorf | Actually, I think there's something buggy about the kernel I'm using ATM |
| 19:19:27 | sachac | sgorf: Excellent. Note that you'll need the linux/kernel CVS anyway, because of all the patches... |
| 19:19:35 | sgorf | Seems to freeze occasionally |
| 19:19:35 | a7r- | sgorf: http://cvs.handhelds.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/linux/kernel/arch/arm/def-configs/h3600 |
| 19:20:06 | sachac | sgorf: and you can make INSTALL_MOD_PATH=/some/place modules_install after everything, I think. |
| 19:20:10 | sachac | sgorf: Freeze occasionally? |
| 19:20:14 | sgorf | sachac: I just got the stock 2.4.16, and applied the rmk1 and hh15 patches; would that be the same, or do I actually want to pull CVS? |
| 19:20:16 | sachac | sgorf: Reproducible? |
| 19:20:22 | sgorf | sachac: Not very reliably :-( |
| 19:20:35 | sgorf | I think it might be when I do something to cause a lot of writes |
| 19:20:38 | sachac | sgorf: Hmmmmm, that might work; I don't know. =) Where does one actually get these patches? |
| 19:20:48 | sachac | breathes. |
| 19:20:51 | sachac | It works again! |
| 19:20:53 | sgorf | I got the patches from ftp://ftp.handhelds.org/pub/linux/kernel/ |
| 19:20:55 | sachac | is a happy person. |
| 19:21:03 | sachac | sgorf: Oh, neat... =) |
| 19:21:22 | sachac | sgorf: Right, should work. I remember asking for a diff against a stock kernel, so that should be fine. =) |
| 19:21:28 | sgorf | sachac: OK, thanks |
| 19:23:47 | sachac | sgorf: ... although if it's going to be the exact same setup then it'll still behave the same way... |
| 19:23:56 | sachac | ... oh, and the patch might be a little out of sync. |
| 19:24:17 | sgorf | Oh, I'm just trying to build a cross-compiler myself :) |
| 19:24:20 | sgorf | I'm just like that :) |
| 19:24:26 | sgorf | So it shouldn't matter much |
| 19:27:00 | sachac | sgorf: Oh, then you already know about the HOWTO.. =) |
| 19:27:08 | sgorf | sachac: Yeah, thanks :) |
| 19:27:14 | sgorf | Actually, I'm a bit confused |
| 19:27:39 | sgorf | The hotwo tells me to run a make dep, but it complains about arm-linux-gcc not existing. Except I haven't built it yet! Chicken and egg :-( |
| 19:30:36 | sgorf | wonders what make dep does that it needs a compiler anyway |
| 19:31:00 | sachac | sgorf: Ummm, did you set the vars correctly? |
| 19:31:08 | sgorf | vars? |
| 19:31:12 | sachac | sgorf: ARCH, HOST, TARGET? |
| 19:31:41 | sachac | sgorf: or something like that. See gcc's docs, probably the ./configure script. |
| 19:31:52 | sgorf | I'm just trying to use the Makefile I've been given. I haven't even got to unpacking gcc yet |
| 19:32:07 | sgorf | According to the howto I need a kernel source tree, at the "make dep"'d stage |
| 19:32:40 | sgorf | So I've got myself the same source tree that familiar uses (I think), but I can't make dep it because it wants gcc-arm-linux which I haven't built yet :-( |
| 19:32:47 | sachac | sgorf: Ohhhhh! Use the script instead. |
| 19:32:59 | sachac | sgorf: See if http://gnu-designs.com/code/make.sh.txt is any use. |
| 19:33:00 | sgorf | script? |
| 19:33:10 | sachac | sgorf: It's linked to in http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/BuildACrossCompiler |
| 19:33:47 | sgorf | sachac: Ah. I hadn't found that :) |
| 19:34:10 | sachac | Although it's still a bit fuzzy... |
| 19:34:22 | sachac | Oh, no, it's perfect. |
| 19:34:35 | sachac | make menuconfig works fine, then you just make include/linux/version.h |
| 19:34:40 | sgorf | Thanks, looks like that's exactly what I'm after :) |
| 19:34:46 | sachac | The instructions look pretty clear. =) Glad to have helped! |
| 19:34:58 | sachac | Feel free to come back and complain. Just curious - what doc were you referring to? |
| 19:35:23 | sgorf | I was looking at http://www.armlinux.org/docs/toolchain/toolchHOWTO/x183.html |
| 19:37:29 | sachac | sgorf: Ahhh... so you went and patched it and stuff? |
| 19:38:07 | sgorf | sachac: I hadn't got that far; I realized I needed the kernel source tree and figured that getting the same patchlevel as I'm using would be the hardest, so started there |
| 19:39:17 | sachac | sgorf: Mmm, I think you could've gotten away with doing it in the order specified in the HOWTO, and I guess problems will magically disappear. =) |
| 19:40:15 | sgorf | sachac: But surely gcc-arm-linux only gets built in the last stage? "make dep" wanted it before. But maybe I should've just followed it straight through because the last time I tried building a cross-compiling toolchain I failed miserably :) |
| 19:40:55 | sachac | sgorf: <nod> Or you follow the easier instructions, which look like they make a lot of sense too.. |
| 19:41:10 | sgorf | sachac: Yep, I'm setting up the make.sh thing now |
| 19:42:31 | sgorf | As I'm building the cross-compiler for use on my iPAQ which is running 2.2.3, should I just use that version? |
| 19:42:40 | sgorf | (glibc I'm talking about) |
| 19:44:02 | sachac | sgorf: I guess so.. My brain isn't working any more, though. It's 4 in the morning here. =) |
| 19:47:14 | sgorf | sachac: OK, thanks :) |
| 19:47:48 | sachac | sgorf: Good luck! If you're particularly proud of your toolchain, put it up on the Net. <impish grin> |
| 19:48:15 | sgorf | sachac: Thanks very much for your help! |
| 19:48:39 | sachac | sgorf: Glad to be of some use. =) |
| 20:01:21 | mallum | cworth: are you about ? |
| 20:03:42 | Kero | he fixed ipkg, if that's what you want to know :) |
| 20:04:07 | mallum | Kero: no, I wanted to know where the ipkg source is ... |
| 20:06:27 | Kero | wouldn't know... |
| 20:15:39 | Disconnect | mallum: in cvs |
| 20:27:08 | mallum | Disconnect: yeah, just buried deep in there |
| 20:27:30 | Disconnect | ipkg has its own tree I thought. |
| 20:27:59 | mallum | familiar/dist/ipkg/C/ |
| 20:28:34 | Disconnect | ah for the c version.. ;) |
| 21:52:15 | Disconnect | cworth: you around? |
| 22:11:54 | SadEagle | Br.. What package is dmesg in? |
| 22:12:54 | Disconnect | cat /proc/kmesg |
| 22:13:18 | SadEagle | Thanks.. But that makes it ind of hard to look at older message.. |
| 22:36:11 | SadEagle | Onn another note, does anyone have any recommendations on FlieSystem to use with CompactFLag on IPAQ? |
| 23:00:24 | sgorf | I would've thought that jjfs2 is the only practical one you /can/ use. But I know nothing about CF :) |
| 23:00:47 | SadEagle | Well, to use it on CF, one needs blockmtd. And I can't find a familiar ipkg for it |
| 23:09:45 | VerxHome | anyone around in here? |
| 23:13:46 | a7r- | yup. |
| 23:13:50 | VerxHome | cool |
| 23:14:01 | VerxHome | I have familiar running opie perfectly on an ipaq |
| 23:14:23 | VerxHome | someone had explained to me that I could have ipkg install apps to nfs or cf if I used the "-d" parameter |
| 23:14:24 | VerxHome | so I did |
| 23:14:31 | a7r- | nod. |
| 23:14:33 | VerxHome | how do I use the stuff that gets installed to nfs? |
| 23:14:43 | VerxHome | do I need to do some kind of fancy linking or something? |
| 23:15:28 | a7r- | you can do it a bunch of ways.. w/ tweaked paths, LD_LIBRARY_PATHs or ld.so config... |
| 23:15:42 | VerxHome | is there a how to somewhere? |
| 23:15:55 | VerxHome | I guess I am braindead |
| 23:15:56 | VerxHome | :( |
| 23:15:58 | a7r- | not really, it's identical to how you'd do it under your average UNIX box. |
| 23:16:06 | VerxHome | heh |
| 23:16:07 | a7r- | what did you install? |
| 23:16:16 | VerxHome | I installed dillo and qxboot |
| 23:16:23 | VerxHome | (or is it xqboot?) |
| 23:16:57 | a7r- | OKay, then just set your PATH to add the directory dillo installed to. |
| 23:17:16 | a7r- | e.g. PATH=/nfs/wherever/bin:$PATH |
| 23:20:31 | VerxHome | ok |
| 23:20:34 | VerxHome | here is an example |
| 23:20:44 | VerxHome | runx calls a script called runx1 |
| 23:20:52 | VerxHome | runx is expecting to find runx1 in /usr/local/bin |
| 23:21:06 | VerxHome | but it is ACTUALLY in /mnt/nfs/usr/local/bin |
| 23:21:31 | VerxHome | so simply adding /mnt/nfs/usr/local/bin to my path doesn't help any |
| 23:21:49 | VerxHome | I can fix this specific script, but I am just wondering if there is a more general solution I can use. . . |
| 23:22:00 | a7r- | not besides setting up symlinks. |
| 23:22:43 | VerxHome | a7r: How can I do a general symlink that adds the content of /mnt/nfs/usr/local/bin to /usr/local/bin? |
| 23:23:06 | VerxHome | I mean, can I do it in a way such that as new things are added to /mnt/nfs/usr/local/bin, they automatically appear in /usr/local/bin? |
| 23:23:46 | a7r- | you could write a shell wrapper around ipkg that did that. |