| 01:56:06 | dneuer | hi all |
| 02:27:46 | dneuer | is away: gotta take care of spouse & parent duty |
| 02:57:18 | zobbo | morning all. Just installed familiar and opie on a 3800 and everything is great except my screen is rotated 180 degrees. This only seemed to happen when I put opie on. |
| 02:57:48 | zobbo | I can use the rotation app to change for new apps. But of course, my main screen is the wrong way around still. Anyone have any clues as to where I should poke around? |
| 03:03:08 | dneuer | is back (gone 00:35:23) |
| 03:06:00 | | dneuer: what? |
| 03:06:00 | dneuer | ibot botmail Kero "Hey, did you get my email? I'd really like to get the raw data from your power tests, if you've still got it. Email me at mr_fred_smoothie@yahoo.com, please." |
| 03:06:08 | | dneuer: what? |
| 03:06:08 | dneuer | ibot: botmail |
| 03:06:14 | | dneuer: no idea |
| 03:06:14 | dneuer | ibot: botmail? |
| 03:06:29 | dneuer | anyone here know the botmail command syntax? |
| 03:34:20 | zobbo | ibot: help |
| 03:35:25 | zobbo | dneuer: ibot: help and then ask it 'help botmail' |
| 03:36:04 | dneuer | zobbo: thanks, I decided to use MemoServ instead :-) |
| 03:36:34 | zobbo | heh :) |
| 04:20:22 | dneuer | is away: gotta take care of spouse & parent duty |
| 04:20:43 | dneuer | is back (gone 00:00:20) |
| 04:36:37 | zobbo | For the record, solved my rotated screen problem. Had to amend a setting in /etc/init.d/qpe |
| 04:41:19 | Drachs | Hey guys |
| 04:41:23 | Drachs | Anybody around? |
| 04:41:56 | Drachs | I'm a commercial developer, and I'm designing a little crypto system for the DOT |
| 04:42:04 | Drachs | I'm going to use these ipaq's here |
| 04:42:12 | Drachs | So I downloaded famaliar and put linux on it |
| 04:42:25 | Drachs | And I'm about to set up a cross compiler, yadda, yadda, yadda |
| 04:42:37 | Drachs | But first, I was looking for some sort of window manager or terminal |
| 04:42:45 | Drachs | So I could operate the box without the serial link |
| 04:42:57 | Drachs | Is there any documentation on what's on here and where it's at? |
| 04:45:15 | zobbo | Drachs: from my vast 12 hours experience. The initial install instructions mention a base X package which wioll give you a basic X manager, terminal etc |
| 04:45:39 | zobbo | I've just installed opie however, which is pretty (opie.handhelds.org) |
| 04:47:04 | Drachs | Well |
| 04:47:09 | Drachs | I did install complete |
| 04:47:12 | Drachs | And I've got x running |
| 04:47:17 | Drachs | But I can't get it to do anything |
| 04:47:47 | Drachs | I can't figure out how to right click |
| 04:47:48 | Drachs | Heh |
| 04:48:05 | zobbo | When I did the standard install I got a menu at the top of the screen from where I could choose terminal, reboots etc. However, the opie stuff is a lot cuter |
| 04:48:23 | zobbo | But replaces X. You can still have your terminal and stuff etc of course. |
| 04:49:18 | Drachs | Hmmm |
| 04:49:19 | zobbo | Just wish it would tell me on the 3850 the battery status |
| 04:49:25 | Drachs | I get a little button that says "abc" |
| 04:52:10 | Drachs | Heh, I've been using linux for years, and I spend all day coding and putting linux devices together |
| 04:52:19 | Drachs | But I feel like I've got no idea what I'm doing |
| 04:52:20 | Drachs | Hehe |
| 04:52:33 | Drachs | How do I install opie? It says something about adding a url to the package manager conf file |
| 04:52:42 | Drachs | But I've got no clue |
| 04:54:11 | Drachs | I cannot even find an editor |
| 04:54:12 | Drachs | Hehe |
| 04:54:31 | zobbo | hehe ... what I did was download using ipkg something called 'ae' |
| 04:54:36 | zobbo | Which is basic editor. |
| 04:54:53 | zobbo | Then edit the file it says to with it |
| 04:55:11 | zobbo | (Ctrl-x w) writes and Ctrl-x c quits |
| 04:55:23 | zobbo | If you look at the file it's quite obvious what needs to go where |
| 04:55:44 | zobbo | Then you need to do a 'ipkg update' to make it update its list of packages |
| 04:55:50 | zobbo | I know the feeling |
| 04:57:38 | zobbo | and if you do all that and find your screen is revsersed - shout. Because I just spent an hour trying to work out why that happened :-) |
| 04:58:53 | Drachs | Hehe |
| 05:00:57 | Drachs | Argh, hehe, I don't even have less, how am I supposed to read the list of packages? Hehe |
| 05:01:53 | zobbo | cat and page up with your terminal emulator :) ... I was just so happy when I stuck bash on and got command completion and history back |
| 05:01:54 | zobbo | :) |
| 05:03:46 | Drachs | Definatly, I can't imagine why anybody would use ash |
| 05:03:49 | Drachs | For anything |
| 05:03:50 | Drachs | ever |
| 05:03:51 | Drachs | Heh |
| 05:03:58 | Drachs | All my embeded distro's use bash |
| 05:03:59 | Drachs | Heh |
| 05:07:06 | Drachs | Is there some sort of meta target for opie I can use to get everything i need to get started? Or do I just go for opie-base? |
| 05:09:18 | zobbo | I'm afraid opie-base and then add the bits you want. There is then beginning of some docs pointed to by the opie site which suggests the stuff you'll want. If you look through the list in ipkg you'll see a terminal emulator. THink it's a port of the one from kde |
| 05:09:37 | zobbo | You'll need the keyboard as well |
| 05:09:56 | zobbo | And I recommend their text editor for maximum pain relief |
| 05:10:56 | zobbo | Just noticed - there's an #opie channel on this server as well |
| 05:12:03 | Drachs | I need to learn how to set up a cross compiler as well |
| 05:12:33 | zobbo | don't look at me :) |
| 05:12:38 | Drachs | I'm ganna need some sort of file transfer utility |
| 05:12:39 | Drachs | Hehe |
| 05:12:46 | Drachs | Btw, thanks for your help man :) |
| 05:15:34 | zobbo | No probs ... we are in this confusion together |
| 05:17:18 | iCEBaLM | anyone awake? |
| 05:17:39 | zobbo | nobody here but us chickens |
| 05:17:44 | iCEBaLM | cluck cluck |
| 05:18:21 | iCEBaLM | I just got an H3635 and looking to put familiar on it |
| 05:18:42 | iCEBaLM | one of the requirements is a serial cradle/cable or USB cradle modified for RS232 |
| 05:18:58 | iCEBaLM | my question is, how do you modify a USB cradle for that, I've done some searching, can't find any info |
| 05:19:37 | zobbo | god knows ... I'm only a Familiar user for 12 hours but my 3850 had a dual cradle. One serial and one USB on it. Sorry :( |
| 05:19:43 | zobbo | Tried searching through the mail lists? |
| 05:20:30 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: did you look at (and search) the wiki? And, is the time and effort to do it really worth not just plunking down $40 for the serial cradle? |
| 05:20:35 | iCEBaLM | not yet, about to try that |
| 05:21:43 | iCEBaLM | dneuer: considering that just to GET an ipaq I had to 1. order it from a foreign country, 2. wait 4 weeks, 3. go to my post office an interrogate the clerk because they lost it, the answer is unfortunately yes :/ |
| 05:22:04 | Drachs | *sigh* |
| 05:22:11 | Drachs | Filesystem full when trying to install opie |
| 05:22:39 | Drachs | Hehe |
| 05:23:52 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: is http://www.handhelds.org/minihowto/h3600-serial-cable.html what you're looking for? |
| 05:24:14 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: where are you located? |
| 05:24:45 | Drachs | Now I need to figure out where it puts packages so I can delete thme |
| 05:24:45 | Drachs | Heh |
| 05:25:19 | iCEBaLM | dneuer: canada |
| 05:25:48 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: you can't get iPAQs in Canada? |
| 05:26:33 | iCEBaLM | you can get H3800's for $900.... |
| 05:27:09 | iCEBaLM | nobody sells H3600s anymore, I don't need an H3800 |
| 05:27:55 | iCEBaLM | good into here dneuer |
| 05:27:57 | iCEBaLM | info |
| 05:33:11 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: $900 Canadian? How much is that in $US? |
| 05:34:18 | iCEBaLM | about $600 or so |
| 05:35:53 | zobbo | Sounds about right. My 3850 was 440 GBP which is about $630 |
| 05:37:30 | iCEBaLM | yeah, but with the money I saved I just get a 128 meg CF card and have more ram :P |
| 05:38:24 | zobbo | Well my company bought mine :-) |
| 05:38:35 | iCEBaLM | hehe cool |
| 05:38:58 | iCEBaLM | I feel like a traitor when I take it into work |
| 05:39:28 | zobbo | Why - what are they? Palm? |
| 05:39:55 | iCEBaLM | heh, yeah I work for palm |
| 05:40:09 | zobbo | aha - you'll be burned at the stake |
| 05:40:30 | iCEBaLM | palms suck :P |
| 05:40:41 | zobbo | I have an old IIIc here - and as it will sync with Ximian Evolution it will stay here for the moment |
| 05:40:42 | zobbo | naaaaaa |
| 05:41:00 | iCEBaLM | IIIc's were one of the better units |
| 05:41:18 | zobbo | well I am a man of discernment and taste :) |
| 05:41:20 | iCEBaLM | but yeah, I would have no use for a palm |
| 05:41:34 | iCEBaLM | I like mp3's too much |
| 05:42:13 | zobbo | ah - well I got given an iPod from the wife last week for my birthday - so I'm sorted there :) |
| 05:42:27 | zobbo | otherwise I'd have to upgrade the iPaq somewhat |
| 05:44:32 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: was I dreaming that Palm announced at one point they were going to switch to StrongARM? |
| 06:59:54 | iCEBaLM | dneuer: palmos 5 will support arm processors |
| 07:00:27 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: but what about devices? |
| 07:00:34 | iCEBaLM | later this year |
| 07:09:09 | dneuer | iCEBaLM: cool. See how long it takes to get Linux on them. I hope they'll be cheaper than the PocketPC equivalents |
| 09:41:44 | dneuer | hi mallum |
| 09:43:18 | mallum | hi deneur ;) |
| 09:43:31 | mallum | I got a new laptop yesterday, a tibook g4 |
| 09:43:44 | mallum | and I must say installing debian on it is incredably difficult |
| 09:44:03 | dneuer | mallum: sorry to hear that |
| 09:44:30 | dneuer | mallum: I've become obsessed w/ power consumption and getting my hands on a working GPRS setup |
| 09:45:02 | mallum | dneuer: I obsessed with getting this tibook working .... I still have no X nor pcmcia :( |
| 09:45:43 | dneuer | bummer |
| 10:33:48 | dneuer | nite all |
| 11:42:59 | bipolar | is back (gone 13:15:41) |
| 12:18:33 | oliver__ | whz diz about?! |
| 14:24:37 | TheFallen | Hi all a quick question which is the latest taskboottap? |
| 14:56:24 | TheFallen | hi |
| 14:56:51 | TheFallen | where can I find the most recent task-bootstrap?? |
| 14:57:31 | TheFallen | I have a 3850 |
| 16:52:39 | cworth | mallum: bummer about the annoying CVS permissions thing. Just sent to admin@ requesting a resolution. |
| 16:54:24 | mallum | cworth: yeah, its a pain. Im sure people are doing anon checkout still though - not sure how with no pserver ... |
| 16:54:50 | mallum | cworth: Im in a world of hate trying to get X running on my new tibook :( |
| 16:55:01 | mallum | cworth: looks like I gotta build X from source |
| 16:55:36 | mallum | cworth: How did you get a src built X to co-exist with a Debian system ? |
| 16:57:04 | dc | hey mallum |
| 16:58:33 | mallum | hey dc |
| 16:58:37 | cworth | mallum: building X from source is pretty easy, just checkout and "make World". |
| 16:59:44 | cworth | mallum: I don't have the right way yet. I just do "make install" from xc and continue. Things are happy unti apt-get upgrades X on me, (and chokes about a bunch of files being regular files instead of symlinks). |
| 17:00:34 | cworth | mallum: I need to just convince dpkg that I already have newer versions of all the X packages, but my quick hack to version numbers in /var/lib/dpkg/status didn't seem to take for some reason. |
| 17:01:29 | mallum | cworth: yeah, its not the build part Im really worried about .. the install will happily install over the top of the debian binarys ( eg debian's X package uses the same file loactions as a default install ? ) |
| 17:02:46 | cworth | mallum: yup. you'll have the new X after make install. Problems only start next time you upgrade Debian's X packages. (Once I push through the annoying symlinks complaints I just go back an re-run "make install"). |
| 17:15:47 | mallum | cworth: I guess I'll just have to suffer that .... thanks for the info ! |
| 18:21:00 | cworth | mallum: appears you should be able to checkout as anoncvs. Give that a shot. |
| 18:23:15 | mallum | cworth: mallum@arnold:~/Projects$ cvs -d mallum@cvs.handhelds.org:/cvs co apps/blink |
| 18:23:15 | mallum | cvs server: Updating apps/blink |
| 18:23:15 | mallum | cvs server: failed to create lock directory for `/cvs/apps/blink' (/cvs/apps/blink/#cvs.lock): Permission denied |
| 18:23:15 | mallum | cvs server: failed to obtain dir lock in repository `/cvs/apps/blink' |
| 18:23:15 | mallum | cvs [server aborted]: read lock failed - giving up |
| 18:26:21 | cworth | mallum: use "cvs -d :pserver:anoncvs@handhelds.org:/cvs co apps/blink" |
| 18:27:36 | mallum | cworth: do you knwo what the anon passwd is ? |
| 18:27:54 | cworth | mallum: anoncvs |
| 18:28:20 | mallum | cworth: cool , working :) |
| 18:28:31 | mallum | cworth: pserver back ? or did it never go away ? |
| 18:28:59 | cworth | mallum: I think it went away for all users except for anoncvs. :) |
| 18:30:26 | mallum | cworth: ah |
| 18:30:32 | mallum | cworth: when I try and make I get; |
| 18:30:37 | mallum | cworth: In file included from xlp_font.c:23: |
| 18:30:37 | mallum | xftint.h:35: dmalloc.h: No such file or directory |
| 18:31:01 | cworth | mallum: odd... dmalloc.h should be commented by default, just kill that. |
| 18:32:11 | mallum | cworth: okey dokey |
| 18:32:17 | mallum | cworth: your using threads ? |
| 18:32:52 | cworth | mallum: uhm, xlp has threads for doing timeouts, (which blink doesn't use -- so that could be removed). |
| 18:33:10 | cworth | mallum: xstroke uses the timeout thread in xlp for tap-and-hold. |
| 18:34:30 | mallum | cworth: ah |
| 18:39:51 | mallum | cworth: working :) |
| 18:40:09 | mallum | notices xterms opening properly ..... |
| 18:40:14 | cworth | mallum: cool. Like I said, it doesn't do too much yet. Nothing really. ;-) |
| 18:40:29 | cworth | mallum: good, take a look at blink.c to see what I'm doing there. |
| 18:40:55 | mallum | cworth: yes |
| 18:44:08 | mallum | cworth: why do you say '/* Shouldn't need this since we're not reparenting, no? */' ? |
| 18:44:26 | cworth | mallum: lemme look... |
| 18:46:30 | cworth | mallum: from what I can tell, the ICCCM stuff is intended to let apps. be written with the assumption that there is no re-parenting going on... |
| 18:47:11 | cworth | mallum: that is, when the WM re-configures the parent window, the child window might not hear about the resize change, so the ICCCM stuff makes the WM tell the child anyway... |
| 18:47:38 | mallum | cworth: gotcha |
| 18:47:42 | cworth | mallum: make sense? In my case, I'm not reparenting, (yet), so when I reconfigure the window, the app will already be told about it. |
| 18:48:39 | cworth | mallum: I've been trying to code straight along with what I've been reading in the ICCCM, (hence the ICCCM_NOTES file). Unfortunately, I forgot to check off sections in there as I coded each one, (as I intended to do). |
| 18:48:58 | mallum | cworth: I saw the notes |
| 18:49:20 | mallum | cworth: I dont see anything in blink.c thats radically different that what Im doing ... |
| 18:49:41 | cworth | mallum: no, I glanced at matchbox and didn't see a huge difference either. |
| 18:49:46 | mallum | cworth: I need to have a play with the both later |
| 18:49:58 | mallum | cworth: X is so confuding ..... :) |
| 18:49:59 | cworth | mallum: I guess the lack of reparenting is really a big source of difference already. |
| 18:50:10 | mallum | cworth: yeah, thats what Im thinking |
| 18:50:51 | mallum | cworth: when I change an app from a dock to a toolbar or a mainwindow is where my main problems are .... and that seems to be to do with all the reperenting |
| 19:31:06 | tom_elam | good day all. |
| 19:34:48 | tom_elam | i've searched, but i haven't found a quick way to get a list of source packages (such as deb packages for source code) for a useable, bootable filesystem. any pointers? |
| 19:36:17 | a7r- | tom_elam: you want to build up from source, the base familiar packages? |
| 19:36:30 | tom_elam | a7r: yes! |
| 19:37:18 | a7r- | tom_elam: that's difficult right now.. ask back in 3 months or so (or help us in making that process available). |
| 19:37:50 | tom_elam | hmm, okay. we're already working on it. ;-) |
| 19:38:30 | cworth | tom_elam: there is an autobuild@handhelds.org list setup to discuss this very issue. See the archives there and feel free to join. |
| 19:38:36 | a7r- | tom_elam: why're you already working on something that another project is doing the work on? |
| 19:39:32 | tom_elam | just started. ;-) no time lost. i will join the list. last i checked, |
| 19:39:37 | tom_elam | it was not far along. |
| 19:40:31 | a7r- | tom_elam: you can build up your own images from packages right now without a lot of effort. |
| 19:40:55 | a7r- | tom_elam: building up the source packages is pretty specific to the project, and there's a pretty specific way of doing that. |
| 19:42:08 | tom_elam | for the versions of the jffs2 filesytem that are available, how could i kind of reverse engineer them to source? |
| 19:42:25 | a7r- | I don't follow, reverse engineer what? |
| 19:42:42 | a7r- | you mean, you want the parts of the jffs2 image, before it became a jffs2 image? |
| 19:43:33 | tom_elam | i mean (maybe i should already know this) how can i find which sources (& maybe which source packages) were used? |
| 19:43:59 | tom_elam | ... used to make the binaries in the jffs2 images. |
| 19:44:00 | cworth | tom_elam: Familiar has never existed entirely in source code. Once the autobuild system is in place, and package submission requires submission of a source package, then that will gradually change. |
| 19:44:52 | tom_elam | cworth: you mean the people who submitted the pieces only submitted binaries? |
| 19:45:20 | cworth | tom_elam: originally there was no submission at all. |
| 19:46:52 | tom_elam | not to belabour the point, but there is no place i can go to for finding out the source versions? no source control or reference? |
| 19:47:47 | cworth | tom_elam: there's no central point, no. You'll have to check each individual package and dig things up, or wait until we put this together, (which we are working on). |
| 19:49:04 | tom_elam | that's fine. i always say, "never look a gift horse in the mouth." & a wonderful horse it is! but how to get the names of the packages from the jffs2 images, then? any way to do it? |
| 19:49:22 | cworth | tom_elam: an approximation would be: everything in hh.org CVS, and Debian source packages for everything else. But that's not 100% guaranteed. |
| 19:49:37 | a7r- | tom_elam: You can install the jffs2 images, or you can grab the tar that made the image. |
| 19:49:52 | a7r- | both will let you look at the list of packages that went in. |
| 19:50:29 | tom_elam | ok, then i can use "ipkg list" (if i remember right)? |
| 19:50:52 | a7r- | ipkg status |
| 19:51:52 | tom_elam | ok |
| 19:52:10 | tom_elam | we'll try it. thanks. |
| 20:13:03 | _MAX_ | hi all |
| 20:18:51 | tom_elam | good night, all. it's 2:00 a.m. here. ;-) |
| 21:37:23 | bipolar_away | is away: I'm not here... Really.... |
| 21:45:08 | cworth | aixdude: what's up? |
| 23:24:26 | a7r | is away: supermarket |