| 00:20.48 | *** join/#familiar zeppie (~zeppie@ip503d3ba7.speed.planet.nl) |
| 00:20.53 | zeppie | hi |
| 00:20.57 | zeppie | somebody awake? ;) |
| 00:23.31 | zeppie | is there someone who can help me with an ipaq 3850 + familiar? it freezes during boot |
| 03:53.56 | *** join/#familiar TheEmperor (~mattn@203.121.47.100) |
| 03:59.04 | *** part/#familiar dougt (~dougt@adsl-63-198-216-19.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 04:48.16 | *** join/#familiar bluelightning (~bluelight@203-173-244-126.akl.ihugultra.co.nz) |
| 05:26.38 | *** join/#familiar Noob (~nnttnnhhe@CPE-69-76-75-96.wi.rr.com) |
| 05:27.11 | Noob | hey bluelight.. remember me.. |
| 05:27.31 | Noob | man i'm so happy i got Familiar to run on my ipaq.. wooohhoooo |
| 05:29.13 | Noob | just wanted to stop by and say.. THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE INFO.. AND ALL THE PROGRAMING U GUYS DID!! |
| 05:29.29 | *** part/#familiar Noob (~nnttnnhhe@CPE-69-76-75-96.wi.rr.com) |
| 06:58.01 | *** join/#familiar laboom (~rainer@linux.hantsch.co.at) |
| 06:58.13 | laboom | Hello, Bluelightning! |
| 06:59.05 | laboom | Are you here? |
| 07:01.15 | laboom | Would like to ask you about the latest news with OPIE... I found some bugs and I have no idea about how to fix them. |
| 07:03.33 | bluelightning | hi laboom |
| 07:04.02 | bluelightning | I reported all of the showstopper issues we found |
| 07:04.03 | laboom | Oh, good evening! I thought you don't want to talk to me any more... ;-) |
| 07:04.26 | bluelightning | nah sorry I saw your messages last night but was watching some movies, and you'd gone by the time I got back |
| 07:05.02 | laboom | Ah - so a bluelightning|tv sais that you are here but in front of TV? |
| 07:05.16 | bluelightning | anyway for now I think we will have to wait for those bugs to be fixed |
| 07:05.23 | bluelightning | yeah that's right :) |
| 07:05.38 | laboom | So you already read my list of bugs, I guess? |
| 07:05.52 | bluelightning | yep... I think most of them have been reported, let me check |
| 07:07.25 | bluelightning | I think the battery drain problem is because the iPAQ turns itself on after a while, and the auto-suspend doesn't work because of the suspend bug :( |
| 07:07.33 | bluelightning | so it sits there until the battery goes flat |
| 07:08.47 | laboom | I thought the same, because it worked before, so it cannot be a hardware issue. -> Can only be software, and when it consumes so much power, it must turn on... |
| 07:09.31 | laboom | ... this is the only reasonable cause. |
| 07:12.44 | laboom | Do you have the same problems with the GUI Package manager? My one creates strange directories, while the cmdline-version of ipkg works fine... |
| 07:15.32 | bluelightning | laboom: yep, it's another bug |
| 07:15.37 | bluelightning | also reported |
| 07:15.55 | laboom | Must be some kind of not initialized var... |
| 07:16.55 | laboom | Anyway, do you ever have worked with WLAN? I currently plan to establish a 8.2 km WLAN, but I have some mysterious problems. |
| 07:19.17 | bluelightning | I have a WLAN at home, it's off most of the time though as I don't use it |
| 07:21.03 | laboom | Oh -- this is quite the opposite of what I plan. I want to establish a link to my friend because he has a very fat internet connection. But all antennas I tried - I cannot get over a distance of more than ~4km. :-/ |
| 07:21.50 | laboom | Ok, was only asking because I need someone who possibly has an idea why it does not work... |
| 07:22.20 | bluelightning | not my field of expertise I am afraid... there should be lots of articles on the web about it though |
| 07:23.58 | laboom | Yes, I think I read most of the important ones, and when I believe them, it should easily work. Though, the connection is lost before 1/2 of the distance. Now I plan to build two parabolic antennas by myself, diameter 85cm. If this also doesn't work, I can forget it... |
| 07:25.47 | laboom | Do you know someone who is familiar with this (WLAN over longer distances)? |
| 07:27.26 | bluelightning | not really |
| 07:27.30 | bluelightning | sorry |
| 07:28.54 | laboom | Paul, could you send me a short answer immediately after my next msg? I wonder about this extreme delay. I send another msg in 30 seconds, so prepare the answer to hit only the enter key.. |
| 07:30.16 | laboom | PINGING PAUL - Pls answer 08:30:00 local. |
| 07:30.18 | bluelightning | l |
| 07:30.56 | bluelightning | the delay is because I'm in the middle of coding :) |
| 07:31.30 | laboom | Oh -- I see. And I thought this server is such slow... :-) What are you coding? |
| 07:31.53 | bluelightning | I'm working on kbdd - adding support for a few more keyboards |
| 07:32.10 | bluelightning | (external ipaq keyboards that is) |
| 07:34.23 | laboom | Sounds interesting. Q of interest: IPAQ has a built in USB (or allows to connect something through the cradle. Is this only for being a "client", or can the IPAQ act similat to a normal PC-USB interface? (connecting a printer, a keyboard,...) |
| 07:35.36 | bluelightning | it's only a client interface... but you can get a CF usb host adapter |
| 07:35.37 | laboom | Anyway, I just got in mind that this is blocked by my CF-Jacket..# |
| 07:35.55 | bluelightning | http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/UsbHost |
| 07:36.14 | bluelightning | h5xxx has built-in USB host adapter but it's completely internal |
| 07:36.26 | bluelightning | (only for the built-in wifi) |
| 07:37.01 | laboom | What kind of keyboards will work with iPAQ 38xx? |
| 07:37.20 | laboom | Also the IR-KBd from Zaurus 5xxx? |
| 07:37.25 | bluelightning | see http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/kbdd |
| 07:37.36 | bluelightning | I'd recommend the compaq foldable, or the stowaway |
| 07:37.58 | bluelightning | I'm working on the Grandtec PocketVIK at the moment |
| 07:38.32 | laboom | Is it expensive? Is it cable-connected? (As I said, the extension port of the iPAQ is used by the 2x CF-Jacket. |
| 07:39.47 | bluelightning | most of them connect by the serial connector which I wouldn't have thought would be used by the dual CF slot |
| 07:40.01 | laboom | The Zaurus (my friend got one from eBay) is really great, especially the internal keyboard. So small, but stlll much more than the screen-kbd... |
| 07:40.02 | bluelightning | the PocketVIK has a cable, most of the others clip onto the bottom |
| 07:40.24 | bluelightning | most can be used with a sleeve on the iPAQ, some can't |
| 07:40.51 | bluelightning | if you want a compact clip-on keyboard, there's the Belkin SnapNType |
| 07:41.45 | laboom | How is it connected? Infrared? Bluetooth? Both is actually free. |
| 07:42.05 | bluelightning | the SnapNType connects to the serial port underneath |
| 07:42.11 | bluelightning | (same one used for charging etc) |
| 07:42.27 | bluelightning | it has a built-in charger socket also |
| 07:43.19 | laboom | But there is no serial port. Oh, just a moment: The Power connector is the port where the cradle connects to, not the expansion port! So it should be possible to connect there. Yes, you are right. |
| 07:43.31 | laboom | But where to get such plugs? :-/ |
| 07:44.00 | laboom | Would like to build adapters myself rather than paying a lot of money for nothing... |
| 07:44.10 | bluelightning | all of the wired external keyboards have the appropriate plugs on them of course |
| 07:44.30 | bluelightning | if you want to make your own, you can get them from http://pc-mobile.net/ |
| 07:44.45 | bluelightning | they also do a short serial cable with a built-in null modem |
| 07:44.53 | laboom | Good hint. Thanks. |
| 07:46.17 | laboom | Final Q, you want to code... What do you think, how long will it usually need until the power-part of opie is fixed? (Until then I can only keep the iPAQ on the power cord...) |
| 07:46.37 | laboom | Is this on high priority? |
| 07:47.28 | bluelightning | well it seems the bug is caused by lack of a keymap... the guy who made the change knows about it, but his time is limited |
| 07:47.57 | bluelightning | I have tried to impress upon the rest of the Opie team that the Familiar release is very close (2 weeks), so hopefully they will fix the problem shortly |
| 07:48.03 | laboom | Only a keymap can cause all this? =8-O |
| 07:49.06 | laboom | I thought the keymap is only used by the UI (buttons -> Software translation) |
| 07:51.07 | laboom | When will the porting of all software be finished? Currently there is a long list of packages available, but a larger part ist currently not available (error 4 in ipkg). |
| 07:51.44 | bluelightning | well keymap support was added, but unfortunately this broke the existing ipaq keys |
| 07:51.59 | bluelightning | laboom: what is error 4? |
| 07:52.04 | laboom | Especially mediaplayer2, wellenreiter, ... would be of interest. The later one crashes and does not find anything, also not my own AP and the neghbour's one! |
| 07:53.24 | laboom | If I would know that, I would be smarter... When I start ipkg install mediaplayer2, it starts checking, then it finds out that one package is missing and aborts. If you wish, I can do it and tell you exactly... |
| 07:53.34 | bluelightning | mediaplayer2 works... I had wellenreiter working in 0.8 |
| 07:53.39 | bluelightning | 0.8.0 that is |
| 07:53.44 | bluelightning | I assume it has not changed |
| 07:54.29 | laboom | I hate this damn... -- Sorry. It just crashed after resuming again. must reboot... |
| 07:56.01 | laboom | what can cause this crashes? It restarts wlan, GUI is visible, then, suddenly, a black screen... :-( |
| 07:58.37 | laboom | Ok, here the result of my try to install opie-mediaplayer2: |
| 07:58.37 | bluelightning | that is strange, I have not seen that myself... though I have not done much on my 3850 yet |
| 07:58.57 | laboom | 'ipkg install opie-mediaplayer2' returns: |
| 07:59.35 | laboom | Installing opie-mediaplayer2 ... to root |
| 08:00.58 | laboom | Downloading http://familiar.handhelds.org/feeds/unstable/packages/armv4l/opie-mediaplayer2_1.1.7-r2_arm.ipk |
| 08:01.39 | laboom | ERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependices: opie-mediaplayer2-skin |
| 08:01.43 | laboom | Nothing to be done |
| 08:01.58 | laboom | An error occured, return value: 1. |
| 08:02.07 | laboom | That's the whole thing, Paul... |
| 08:02.25 | laboom | -- |
| 08:02.53 | laboom | So the feed seems to be incomplete... |
| 08:02.58 | bluelightning | right, so you need to install a skin first |
| 08:03.03 | bluelightning | the default one is fine |
| 08:03.15 | bluelightning | I think it's called opie-mediaplayer2-skin-default |
| 08:03.39 | laboom | Doesn't ipkg do that recursively by itself? |
| 08:04.08 | bluelightning | it should, but in this case the dependencies are broken |
| 08:04.25 | bluelightning | the idea is you can install any skin, so it can't require a specific package |
| 08:04.39 | bluelightning | what it should do is have a preferred one, but it didn't get set for some reason |
| 08:06.21 | laboom | Interesting. I would prefer that a package installs everything it needs in default versions by itself. What happens here is confusing the user. I would put everything belonging together into one package. |
| 08:07.46 | laboom | Have a look into the list of packages! Most of them make no sense when installed alone, especially libraries. But what is a application, what is only a little extension? |
| 08:08.20 | laboom | Well mediaplayer2 installed right now fine, after I installed the default skin first. -> unlogical. |
| 08:08.26 | bluelightning | laboom: I agree it should do it by default |
| 08:08.46 | bluelightning | in fact I will make a note of it |
| 08:10.34 | laboom | This is what my son also point out every time he has the iPAQ in his hands: "Dad, I tried to install this and that, wha doesn't this garbage work?" (My son is primarily using Windows and does not understand why one program is split in so many independent parts, me too. |
| 08:11.19 | laboom | Also: I am sure that many of the displayed packages are not for OPIEn but for GPE? |
| 08:11.51 | laboom | If so, I would make two independend feeds, one for OPIE, one for GPE. |
| 08:12.36 | laboom | Your meaning? ;-) |
| 08:12.37 | bluelightning | laboom: what you're looking at is the unstable feed, which has everything... when 0.8.1 goes to release there will be proper separate feeds |
| 08:13.11 | bluelightning | meaning it will eventually be fixed :) |
| 08:15.05 | laboom | Oh! -- I forgot. I thought that it would save work when this everything is kept clearely separated from the very beginning. So finally the unstable content would only have to be moved to the released tree. It's easier to split that afterwards (and hereby insert new failures)? I'm surprised. |
| 08:16.39 | bluelightning | actually, the packages are rebuilt from scratch |
| 08:16.44 | bluelightning | for the releases I mean |
| 08:18.01 | laboom | My _personal_ meaning is: When everything goes into the release status, this should be nothing more than (possibly) re-compiling every particular application within a batch run, build the final package hereby, and move this one to the release tree. So there appear only packages that work 100%. Finally, the unstable tree should be empty when this is finished. |
| 08:18.44 | laboom | Oh, so it is already done so. we overlaped... |
| 08:18.57 | bluelightning | yeah :) |
| 08:19.16 | bluelightning | the unstable feed is not touched during the release |
| 08:20.29 | laboom | What does this mean? Not touched? Shouldn't it be (re)moved/hidden after releasing to make sure that nothing of it is used any more? |
| 08:23.36 | bluelightning | nope... only beta testers such as yourself know about it anyway :) |
| 08:23.44 | laboom | Ok. -- This is not your job. ;-) |
| 08:24.00 | bluelightning | koen handles the releases mainly |
| 08:25.07 | laboom | So only _one_ does that. This is important. When the 0.8.1 comes out: Will my iPAQ migrate automatically to the released version or must I re-install from scratch? |
| 08:26.53 | laboom | One could place a script into the unstable feed which will be tested at every update and be executed when downloaded. So it would be possible to automize the change whenever it is ready to be done. |
| 08:27.49 | laboom | Ok, this were only some ideas... |
| 08:28.06 | laboom | Is this mediaplayer2 able to play DivX4? I am afraid, not. |
| 08:28.29 | bluelightning | laboom: you should be able to do an "ipkg update" then "ipkg upgrade" but only after you have switched to the proper 0.8.1 release feed |
| 08:29.00 | bluelightning | laboom: yes it can, you just need to install the right libxine decoder packages (I know, it's not very self-explanatory) |
| 08:33.23 | laboom | Paul, I think that this mechanism of automated updates should also (=especially!) be included into unstable versions. This would allow you to keep everything synchronized. Something like SuSE does with their Online-Updater. It also tells you automatically when something new (and important) appears, i.e. a new snapshot, and also allows that recommended parts can be installed automatically. |
| 08:34.13 | bluelightning | laboom: that's great, if you have enough people to manage and test it all |
| 08:35.32 | laboom | Wouldn't that be a good idea? Actually you only have to place a control file which will be read, verified with the local one. When different, it is copied to local, then executed. |
| 08:36.39 | laboom | This is trivial and can run in the background, too. So it is much easier for everyone (including the developers) to keep all testing machines on the same level. |
| 08:37.19 | bluelightning | just so few people and so little time to work on it, is all |
| 08:37.50 | laboom | About how many people are you talking? |
| 08:38.06 | bluelightning | working on familiar releases |
| 08:38.53 | laboom | How many users do you estimate? |
| 08:39.25 | bluelightning | it's hard to tell.. about 100 at the moment I'd estimate, lots of them don't post |
| 08:39.37 | bluelightning | the long period of stagnation probably drove some people away |
| 08:40.10 | bluelightning | in fact 100 is a completely random guess |
| 08:43.38 | laboom | Yes, I was also very close to give OPIE a kick. But now it starts moving again, so I'll stay. Well, 100 users is a lot if everyone has something different on its iPAQ. I would - at least - make a little taskbar-icon that tests periodically for updates written down in a file. This helps you to keep all users/testers on the same level. |
| 08:44.08 | Averne | hi |
| 08:44.16 | Averne | can i install familiar on SD card? |
| 08:44.34 | bluelightning | Averne: no, sorry |
| 08:44.46 | Averne | thanks |
| 08:45.02 | Averne | but could i have /usr on sd? |
| 08:45.03 | bluelightning | laboom: well it's certainly a good idea |
| 08:45.09 | laboom | When a new packages comes out, all you have to do is writing one line to the control file on the server.The change will be recognized, the file will be downloaded, and the new lines executed. And voila, everyone has it installed. |
| 08:45.16 | bluelightning | Averne: yeah you can do stuff like that, you just can't boot off SD |
| 08:45.29 | Averne | thx :) |
| 08:45.44 | bluelightning | laboom: there's already a control file, "Packages" |
| 08:45.50 | bluelightning | it's huge though |
| 08:49.06 | Averne | kernel and initrd in rom, yes? |
| 08:52.33 | bluelightning | Averne: yep... bootloader as well |
| 08:52.52 | bluelightning | Averne: I understand with a little work you can put everything except the bootloader on a CF card though |
| 08:55.21 | laboom | Ok, Paul, I'll start working. Its 10:00 am here... Have a nice evening. |
| 08:56.07 | Averne | i know |
| 08:56.07 | *** part/#familiar laboom (~rainer@linux.hantsch.co.at) |
| 08:56.08 | Averne | ;-) |
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| 12:38.11 | Dardo | hello |
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| 16:25.53 | J_1 | hi all |
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| 16:28.23 | J_P | people, my friend have one IPAQ h6315 (iPAQ + phone + camera device). Exist prevision for familiar linux support this smartphone ? |
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| 19:16.01 | jig | hi |
| 19:16.06 | jig | anyone in here? |
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| 21:22.31 | Jarhead | how's it goin? |
| 21:23.51 | Jarhead | I've got a couple questions about the familiar installation process if any of you would be so kind to help me. |
| 21:24.33 | Jarhead | The serial bootloader console does not start when I press the calendar button on my Ipaq 5555, is there any way I can fix that? |
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