| 01:05.59 | *** join/#familiar noclouds (n=mhfan@60.166.47.42) |
| 01:58.32 | *** join/#familiar petterhj (n=TESTID@host-81-191-111-34.bluecom.no) |
| 02:47.27 | *** join/#familiar sloopy (n=sloopy@unaffiliated/sloopy) |
| 07:13.12 | *** join/#familiar toi (n=pleemans@d5152D12D.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:07.42 | *** join/#familiar toi (n=pleemans@d5152D12D.access.telenet.be) |
| 12:26.50 | Rebecca | noone uses familiar on a jornada 720? |
| 12:30.11 | *** join/#familiar Ge0rgy (n=Christop@dslb-084-057-185-221.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:19.32 | *** join/#familiar Ge0rgy_ (n=Christop@dslb-084-057-157-140.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:42.01 | Rebecca | im getting the distinct impression ill be on my own with this, lol |
| 13:55.57 | *** join/#familiar KrakHed (n=KrakHed@63.73.225.227) |
| 13:57.55 | KrakHed | I grabbed the latest version of familiar to load on my ipaq h3800 but it reports version 8.2 when I connect to it via hyperterm |
| 13:58.27 | KrakHed | so I used the xpusbnetworkhoto instructions for familiar < 0.8.3 but I'm unable to install the two ipkg files it says are needed |
| 13:58.36 | KrakHed | can anyone point me in the direction of how to make that work? |
| 13:58.54 | KrakHed | (I also tried the instructions for >= 8.3 but that also didn't work) |
| 13:59.22 | KrakHed | The error it gives me is that it can'f find the packages but I have copied them locally |
| 15:14.49 | *** join/#familiar petterhj (n=TESTID@host-81-191-111-34.bluecom.no) |
| 15:59.42 | KrakHed | Kinda quiet in here |
| 15:59.58 | Rebecca | yup |
| 16:00.13 | KrakHed | Is it usually this quiet? |
| 16:00.32 | KrakHed | it's such a cool distro, I just figured it would be busier |
| 16:01.04 | Rebecca | im new here.. |
| 16:01.09 | KrakHed | me too |
| 16:01.51 | Rebecca | i want to get familiar working on a hp jornada 720.. looks like a challenge but worth it |
| 16:02.10 | KrakHed | that's cool |
| 16:02.40 | KrakHed | is the 720 the one with the keyboard? |
| 16:02.57 | KrakHed | I have an old 548, but you can't flash those |
| 16:03.13 | KrakHed | I put it on an ipaq. Super easy, but I can't get my xp box to gateway for it |
| 16:03.45 | Rebecca | ill either need to use a wince boot loader.. or replace the os flash board :) |
| 16:03.52 | Rebecca | i would rather do the later. |
| 16:04.07 | Rebecca | eventually, lol |
| 16:04.15 | KrakHed | yeah, I think the latter would be a better layout |
| 16:05.15 | poli | KrakHed: What instructions are you following? |
| 16:05.52 | KrakHed | http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/WindowsXpUsbNetworkHowTo |
| 16:06.34 | poli | KrakHed: what part of the instructions you are having problem with? |
| 16:07.11 | KrakHed | well if I use the ones for <0.8.3 which mine is reporting, the kernel modules will not install via ipkg. It says it can't find them even though I use the package manager and have them loaded locally on a memory card |
| 16:07.37 | poli | KrakHed: What's the ipkg syntax you used? |
| 16:07.39 | KrakHed | if I use the >=0.8.3 the linux.inf file doesn't contain the information for the device (according to windows) |
| 16:08.15 | KrakHed | I tried both the gui and using ipkg install /media/card/tmp/kernel-module-etc...ipk |
| 16:08.39 | poli | What was the error you got with the ipkg install? |
| 16:09.13 | KrakHed | it said it couldn't find it. I'll run it right now and give you the exact error |
| 16:09.38 | *** join/#familiar jg (n=jg@wireless-103.media.mit.edu) |
| 16:12.22 | KrakHed | do you want me to paste the error here or go to a flood room? |
| 16:13.03 | KrakHed | here's the short version: Cannot find package kernel-module-g-ether-2.4.19-rmk6-pxa1-hh37. |
| 16:13.13 | poli | KrakHed: #flood |
| 16:13.47 | KrakHed | sent |
| 16:13.47 | Rebecca | or http://rafb.net/paste/ |
| 16:14.14 | poli | Notice that the package should end with .ipkg... and it doesn't in your error. |
| 16:14.22 | poli | Where is the package located? |
| 16:14.30 | KrakHed | I did notice that, but you see my command included it |
| 16:14.37 | KrakHed | on a memory card in /media/card |
| 16:15.04 | KrakHed | the same thing happens if I use the gui and remove anything that my typing may have done |
| 16:16.18 | poli | That's odd. Rename the file to something else but keep the .ipkg extension and try again. |
| 16:16.36 | KrakHed | ok |
| 16:17.12 | KrakHed | odd |
| 16:17.16 | KrakHed | I'll send the new error |
| 16:17.25 | poli | ok |
| 16:17.35 | KrakHed | note the extension |
| 16:17.53 | poli | I did |
| 16:17.59 | poli | ipkg install ./g-ether.ipkg |
| 16:18.04 | KrakHed | that seems kinda funky |
| 16:18.24 | KrakHed | same |
| 16:18.24 | poli | It is. I guess ipkg is having issue with the size of the name or number of dots. |
| 16:18.37 | KrakHed | ok, I'll make it a name with 2 dots then |
| 16:19.05 | KrakHed | same deal |
| 16:19.15 | KrakHed | btw does 0.8.3 exist? |
| 16:19.22 | KrakHed | because I thought I had grabbed the latest |
| 16:21.21 | poli | 0.8.3 is in final development stages |
| 16:21.32 | KrakHed | that's cool |
| 16:21.38 | poli | Install files are already available, but not officially released. |
| 16:21.49 | KrakHed | should I be using that? |
| 16:22.26 | poli | I think you would better wait until all issues are worked out. There are still a number of bugs reported... |
| 16:22.35 | KrakHed | ah ok |
| 16:22.50 | KrakHed | considering I can't get the stable one to work ;) |
| 16:23.06 | KrakHed | well, it mostly works. I'm assuming I'm doing something wrong |
| 16:23.14 | KrakHed | everything else has been so easy up to this point |
| 16:24.11 | poli | Just guessing: try copying the package file to /tmp |
| 16:24.16 | KrakHed | ok |
| 16:25.41 | KrakHed | no good |
| 16:27.50 | poli | I just blew up my 0.8.3 install and will take a while to get ipkg's instructions working again... (yes, don't get to 0.8.3 yet) |
| 16:28.06 | poli | Please paste a ipkg -h to some past bin. |
| 16:28.49 | KrakHed | what do you mean? |
| 16:29.56 | poli | Can you execute ipkg -h and paste the results to some paste bin as http://rafb.net/paste ? |
| 16:30.30 | KrakHed | sure, it's gonna be pretty big though |
| 16:30.51 | poli | yes, that's the reason I asked you to do so in a paste bin |
| 16:31.55 | KrakHed | sorry, it's in hyperterm so it's gonna take me a second |
| 16:32.06 | poli | no problem |
| 16:32.21 | poli | It will take me much more than that to get familiar up again. :) |
| 16:32.29 | KrakHed | heh, very true |
| 16:33.14 | KrakHed | http://rafb.net/paste/results/vsNIuF43.html |
| 16:34.22 | poli | hum ok... the extension needed seems to be .ipk not .ipkg |
| 16:34.28 | poli | Can you rename it and try again? |
| 16:34.44 | KrakHed | did that, I noticed that too |
| 16:34.46 | KrakHed | same issue |
| 16:35.59 | poli | Are you sure the modules file matches your PDA's architecture? |
| 16:36.16 | KrakHed | no, I'm not sure. There was only one set of files from that page |
| 16:36.50 | poli | What model is yours again? |
| 16:37.10 | KrakHed | ipaq h3800 |
| 16:38.11 | poli | Oh, I think that modules don't match your architecture. On that page it says for 3900 and up, but I don't really know the processors on the 3xxx series. |
| 16:38.33 | KrakHed | hmm...I think the processors are different on the 3900 actually |
| 16:38.53 | KrakHed | crap, I didn't notice that before |
| 16:40.06 | poli | I am sorry, I don't know the 3xxx architecture and I know even less of Windows USB networking. You might want to try #handhelds.org I think you might find someone there that knows about it. |
| 16:41.23 | KrakHed | thanks for all your help. Sorry to waste your time. |
| 16:41.24 | poli | No bother. I hope you get it working. |
| 16:41.24 | Rebecca | hey poli do you know anyone who has got familiar one a jornada 720? |
| 16:41.24 | Rebecca | s/one/on |
| 16:42.39 | poli | Rebecca: No, but it seems to be ready for use. |
| 16:43.42 | Rebecca | poli: using a wince boot loader, yes... i would rather get it working from rom though |
| 16:43.57 | Rebecca | well.. flash 'rom' |
| 16:45.18 | poli | You have a flash board? |
| 16:45.47 | KrakHed | Thanks again to everyone. I'll stop back in if I get it working |
| 16:46.26 | Rebecca | poli: nope |
| 16:47.22 | poli | I don't know the architecture, but does it have internal flash? Reading http://handhelds.org/projects/jornada720.html seems like it hasn't. |
| 16:48.45 | Rebecca | from what i have read the OS is either stored on a seperate ROM PCB, or a seperate ROM PCB can override the normal OS ROM |
| 16:50.00 | poli | Seems, by reading the texts, that the original OS is stored in some kind of ROM media that isn't flash... so, I don't think it can be erased. |
| 16:50.01 | Rebecca | finding a making flash ROM will be a challenge.. but i figured if someone has already had one made it would have been wise (and cost effective) to make several. so perhaps if im lucky someone has one to sell |
| 16:50.26 | Rebecca | no, i didnt say overwrite |
| 16:50.55 | Rebecca | finding or* making sorry |
| 16:50.57 | poli | is it flash or some other type of media? |
| 16:51.15 | Rebecca | what? |
| 16:51.45 | poli | I don't think the internal ROM is flash. It might be EEPROM or something like that. |
| 16:51.45 | Rebecca | the existing OS is stored in some kind of ROM |
| 16:51.51 | Rebecca | i know |
| 16:52.50 | Rebecca | i didnt mention reprogramming the existing ROM |
| 16:52.58 | Rebecca | i know that is not possible |
| 16:53.43 | poli | yes, it is theoretically possible to physically change the ROM |
| 16:54.07 | poli | but you would have to open the device and find a way to remove it (not always easy) |
| 16:54.32 | Rebecca | erm.. like i already mentioned. the ROM seems to be stored on a seperate PCB |
| 16:58.20 | Rebecca | :) |
| 16:58.42 | poli | You are right, at least in part. |
| 16:58.47 | Rebecca | how so? |
| 16:59.26 | poli | If someone makes a ROM of some kind you could exchange the original one by this new, but I can't tell how hard it could be to make the physical change. |
| 17:00.08 | poli | Using the flash board (I am not sure how it connects) would be a easier choice, but might not be that easy to find one and I don't know where it connects and how it does that. |
| 17:00.30 | Rebecca | basicly: if i cant find someone who will sell me a flash OS board for it ill pay for a board to be made. there are detailed instructions that cover getting a PCB made and what SMD components it requires |
| 17:01.47 | Rebecca | seems risky though :/ |
| 17:02.34 | poli | Well, it is also possible just to get the ROM chip itself changed. |
| 17:02.50 | poli | But you might need some professional work if you are not a good PCB worker yourself. |
| 17:04.29 | Rebecca | swap the ROM for a preprogrammed flash chip? |
| 17:05.23 | poli | I think it might be difficult to exchange it for a flash chip (can't really tell without knowing the current ROM), but if that ROM is a EPROM or EEPROM it is possible to exchange it to another EPROM or EEPROM with the OS. |
| 17:05.37 | Rebecca | hmmmm |
| 17:07.30 | poli | But that will require some dedication and serious work, Rebecca. |
| 17:08.13 | poli | But... well, for your channels I guess you are hobbist or electronic enthusiast at least, aren't you? |
| 17:08.28 | Rebecca | yes |
| 17:08.42 | Rebecca | lately ive been into programming microcontrollers. so im not a total noob |
| 17:08.50 | poli | What microcontrollers? |
| 17:08.57 | Rebecca | atmega32 |
| 17:09.07 | Rebecca | but, only simple stuff at the moment |
| 17:09.39 | Rebecca | linux on the jornada720 seems like a really nice combination. |
| 17:09.59 | Rebecca | my laptop recently died, and i need a replacement.. preferably a smaller replacement |
| 17:10.08 | Rebecca | which is why i initially settled on a jornada |
| 17:11.08 | Rebecca | can you use an external usb keyboard with an ipaq? |
| 17:11.10 | poli | I did lots of programming on the 8515 and the 8535 years ago. Atmel has some very nice chips. |
| 17:11.15 | Rebecca | cool :) |
| 17:11.22 | poli | IPaqs have no USB Host... |
| 17:11.28 | poli | You would have to buy a USB host CF |
| 17:12.10 | Rebecca | darn. i was thinking "well, familiar on ipaq looks great, ill just settle for an external kbd' hehe |
| 17:12.42 | Rebecca | im pretty sure i would be using the CF port for CF :) |
| 17:13.09 | poli | Well, take a look at the kbdd article on the wiki... there are lots of external keyboards that connect by IR, bluetooth or some even that connect through the proprietary serial connectors. |
| 17:13.28 | Rebecca | alrighty :) |
| 17:14.06 | poli | I myself bought a IR keyboard for US$30,00 on eBay but there is still no support for it in kbdd, so I am setting up a dev environment to get it working. |
| 17:14.35 | Rebecca | how about bluetooth? that supported in fam? |
| 17:14.41 | poli | Sure. |
| 17:14.56 | poli | And there are some bluetooth keyboards supported as well. |
| 17:15.37 | Rebecca | hmm.. it's odd that the term flash ROM is used.. it's a bit of a contradiction :) |
| 17:15.53 | poli | Yes, you are right. |
| 17:16.12 | poli | EEPROM are ROMs to some point, as you need some unusual voltages to get it programmed. |
| 17:16.35 | poli | But flash can be programmed 100% in circuit... it is a "adaptation" of the term, at least. |
| 17:17.00 | Rebecca | yeah |
| 17:18.23 | poli | Well, if you enjoy electronics and have the time and will to tweak the 720, I would say it might be possible. |
| 17:18.50 | Rebecca | sadly i dont have infinite time or funds :/ |
| 17:18.56 | poli | But the iPaq is a great machine, anyway, and with the external keyboard I believe it turns out a better working and studying environment than the 720. |
| 17:19.43 | poli | It is pretty much possible to try and get the 720 running with very small funds... but time would be an issue. |
| 17:20.39 | Rebecca | i wouldnt mind paying 200AUD to get a few flash "ROM" PCBs with linux working.. but if i paid all that and they didnt would i would be upset to say the least. and i doubt failure is unlikely |
| 17:20.59 | Rebecca | didnt work* |
| 17:21.25 | poli | Seems like the flash ROM option is quite well supported by the familiar community. Take a look at the Wiki and reference pages. |
| 17:21.33 | poli | But 200AU is expensive... |
| 17:22.06 | Rebecca | i could source and program the flash myself.. but i would definately outsource the PCB manufacturing |
| 17:22.30 | Rebecca | not for a really nice handbag sized linux computer :) |
| 17:25.14 | Rebecca | perhaps ill get an ipaq.. i like a challenge, but the jornada720 might be too much for me |
| 17:25.40 | poli | The 4700 is a very nice machine, if you ask my opinion. |
| 17:26.08 | poli | And 0.8.3 support is 99.999% ready. |
| 17:26.14 | *** join/#familiar plasmaferesi (n=neuro@151.54.93.249) |
| 17:26.20 | plasmaferesi | Hi at all |
| 17:26.26 | poli | hello plasmaferesi |
| 17:26.51 | plasmaferesi | someone could help me installing familiar on a zaurus sl-5600? |
| 17:27.35 | plasmaferesi | in this zaurus is already installed openzaurus but I think familiar is better |
| 17:28.05 | Rebecca | poli: cool |
| 17:28.49 | plasmaferesi | rebecca:why? |
| 17:28.50 | Rebecca | poli: the 4700 is the most powerful ipaq with decent familiar support right? |
| 17:29.03 | Rebecca | plasmaferesi: because, poli is a cool person :) |
| 17:29.06 | poli | I bought one in June, when development was at an advanced stage. One thing not working is the internal Wi-fi card. |
| 17:29.10 | poli | lol |
| 17:29.14 | plasmaferesi | xcuse me |
| 17:29.27 | poli | 4700 is the most powerful iPaq... and happens to have a working familiar. :) |
| 17:29.44 | poli | Just got out of line (not available in hp.com at least) but I see no substitute. |
| 17:29.55 | Rebecca | poli: any idea how close (if at all) they are to getting internal wi-fi working? |
| 17:30.01 | plasmaferesi | but where are the how-to's for installing familiar on sharp zauri? |
| 17:30.24 | poli | Probably because wince 2005 isn't supported by the 4700 yet. I guess when they get support they will get a upgrade back in line. |
| 17:31.01 | Rebecca | what do you mean 'out of line'? |
| 17:31.08 | poli | Rebecca: there are some reports of activity on the development, but no real public effort at this time. There is also a bounty for that driver, so, there might be people working in private. |
| 17:31.44 | Rebecca | poli: cool.. well, if i take the ipaq route ill contribute a little to the bounty :) |
| 17:34.29 | poli | Rebecca: the 4700 used to be displayed on that hp.com page: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF02d/215348-64929-215381.html |
| 17:34.59 | poli | But it isn't anymore, and you can't find a link to the 4700 product... that makes me believe it is not anymore being produced |
| 17:35.21 | Rebecca | ahhhh |
| 17:35.23 | poli | But there isn't any real substitute (all the 3 listed have QvGA screens, not real VGA like the 4700) |
| 17:35.38 | poli | I noticed that a couple of weeks ago. |
| 17:35.53 | Rebecca | is there a page someplace with the 4700 specs? |
| 17:36.06 | Rebecca | ive only found _one_ on ebay, lol |
| 17:36.54 | poli | there used to be lots of them on ebay... even a guy who always sold refurbished ones. |
| 17:37.19 | poli | Official specs: http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=2549736&jumpid=oc_R1002_USENC-001_HP%20iPAQ%20hx4700%20Pocket%20PC |
| 17:37.39 | poli | Oh... they promise to ship in 1-2 weeks... so, must be still in the production line |
| 17:38.01 | Rebecca | or there is a warehouse some place with lots :) |
| 17:38.13 | Rebecca | sorry, i realised i only did a local ebay search |
| 17:39.01 | Rebecca | may i ask what your mother tongue is poli ? |
| 17:39.09 | plasmaferesi | someone plesase would help me? |
| 17:39.22 | poli | plasmaferesi: try #handhelds.org |
| 17:39.42 | poli | Wiki specs for the 4700 are in http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HpIpaqHx4700 |
| 17:39.58 | poli | My mother tongue is portuguese, Rebecca. Is it that obivous? :) |
| 17:40.49 | *** part/#familiar plasmaferesi (n=neuro@151.54.93.249) |
| 17:42.18 | Rebecca | your english is perfectly comprehensible but i just noticed a couple of things that would be worded differently by a native speaker. that's all :) |
| 17:42.43 | Rebecca | and im always curious where people are at/from :) |
| 17:42.56 | Rebecca | im at Sydney, Australia :) |
| 17:43.12 | poli | Oh, I am at Sao Paulo, Brazil :) |
| 17:43.35 | Rebecca | cool :) |
| 17:44.41 | Rebecca | http://photobucket.com/albums/v414/beccasfotos/ <- has a few pics of my microcontroller board im playing with :) |
| 17:46.40 | poli | cool I had never seen that IDE/CF adapters. |
| 17:47.47 | Rebecca | i got that to replace my laptop hdd with a CF drive. then my laptop died :/ |
| 17:47.53 | Rebecca | lol |
| 17:48.04 | Rebecca | which is why im looking for a replacement of sorts :) |
| 17:49.53 | poli | What happened to your laptop? |
| 17:50.28 | Rebecca | im not proud to admit why it died... |
| 17:50.36 | Rebecca | i killed it by messing with the heatsink, lol |
| 17:51.10 | poli | Every recent processor I have seen has a shutdown on over temperature... |
| 17:51.46 | Rebecca | it wasn't very expensive. and i rarely used it because it wasnt very portable.. so i didnt miss it much. but i felt like an idiot for why it died :) |
| 17:52.06 | Rebecca | it was a mobile amd cpu. perhaps that's why |
| 17:53.05 | poli | I have had so many components burnt myself that I don't want to remember. |
| 17:53.19 | Rebecca | hehe |
| 17:53.40 | Rebecca | do you know what the pixel dimensions of the 4700 LCD are? |
| 17:53.53 | poli | YEs... VGA.... 640x480 |
| 17:54.03 | Rebecca | nice! |
| 17:54.06 | poli | The best LCD display I have ever seen, if you ask me. :) |
| 17:54.14 | Rebecca | does it have VGA out port? |
| 17:54.37 | poli | No... but you can find VGA CF |
| 17:54.47 | Rebecca | ok |
| 17:54.55 | Rebecca | http://cgi.ebay.com.au/HP-iPAQ-HX4700-4700-PDA-AS-NEW-EXTRAS_W0QQitemZ5862084477QQcategoryZ70892QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem <- seems like a decent price |
| 17:56.31 | poli | Yes, indeed. |
| 17:57.44 | poli | You will also need a 256 MB or more SD card if you want to install familiar at this point... |
| 17:57.59 | *** join/#familiar danil (n=Danil@eeceds01.ncl.ac.uk) |
| 17:58.06 | poli | Or would it be 128MB or more? I don't remember. |
| 17:58.28 | Rebecca | can familiar run the console/X in sideways mode? (like traditional 640x480 is used) |
| 17:58.43 | Rebecca | that's not a problem. flash memory is cheap :) |
| 17:58.58 | poli | sideways=landscape? |
| 17:59.06 | Rebecca | yeah :) |
| 17:59.09 | poli | Yes. :) |
| 17:59.27 | poli | It works just fine, and very easy to switch to portrait, too. |
| 17:59.56 | Rebecca | cool.. i think this would be preferable to hacking the jornada720 :) |
| 18:00.05 | Rebecca | thanks poli :) |
| 18:00.30 | Rebecca | much faster CPU too |
| 18:01.22 | poli | Yes, it does. The 627MHz arm is amazing for a PDA. The only issue, IMHO, is the 64MB. Enough for normal use, yes, but there are some PDAs already shipping 128MB (even IPaqs). |
| 18:02.39 | Rebecca | i gather the RAM isnt upgradable at all.. hmm.. i wonder if i should just be patient for a new model. |
| 18:03.15 | Rebecca | argh, then ill have to wait till linux/familiar is ported. lol |
| 18:03.23 | poli | Well... there are some people in the US that professionally upgrade it for you to 128MB... |
| 18:03.30 | Rebecca | wow |
| 18:03.34 | poli | But waiting for a new model could be worth... |
| 18:03.51 | Rebecca | that's pretty funky. do you have a URL for these upgrade people? |
| 18:03.57 | poli | You have always the risk of getting a new model that won't have familiar for 1 year or 2, though. |
| 18:03.59 | Rebecca | i think im too impatient ;) |
| 18:04.03 | Rebecca | yeah |
| 18:04.47 | poli | I will have to search that for you. A friend of mine ruined with LCD and is thinking on getting it fixed and have the RAM upgraded once and for all. |
| 18:04.58 | poli | *ruined the LCD |
| 18:05.15 | Rebecca | ahhh |
| 18:05.26 | Rebecca | no hurry |
| 18:07.51 | poli | Are you an engineer student or something like it? |
| 18:08.24 | Rebecca | just a geek :) |
| 18:09.06 | poli | It is hard to have electronic geeks far from engineering schools. :) |
| 18:09.57 | Rebecca | well, im a noob at electronics/microcontrollers. but there is lots of help online to learn :) |
| 18:10.29 | poli | That is true, now a days... when I got interested in electronics there was no internet around... :( |
| 18:10.48 | Rebecca | awwww |
| 18:10.51 | Rebecca | how old are you? |
| 18:10.59 | poli | Oh... 27... and you? |
| 18:11.03 | Rebecca | 25 :) |
| 18:11.23 | poli | Ok, now I am not feeling as old as I did when you asked me my age. :) |
| 18:11.28 | Rebecca | hehehe |
| 18:12.27 | Rebecca | well, looks like im getting an ipaq now. hehe |
| 18:12.31 | poli | What is the currency rate between AU and US$? |
| 18:12.45 | Rebecca | mag alloy case sounds cool! i drop stuff often :) |
| 18:13.06 | poli | I bought one, they are very cool, yes! |
| 18:13.12 | poli | Used to be very hard to find, though. |
| 18:13.48 | Rebecca | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:13.48 | Rebecca | 1 US Dollar (USD) = 1.33422 Australian Dollar (AUD) |
| 18:14.28 | Rebecca | do you use OPIE or GPE? |
| 18:14.49 | poli | GPE, opie doesn't work with the 4700 yet... |
| 18:14.55 | Rebecca | ahhh, ok |
| 18:15.16 | poli | Todd's starterkit uses Opie and he is developing a Qtopia desktop to sell for the 4700. |
| 18:15.56 | poli | But touchscreen isn't working on the 0.8.3 familiar release, yet. |
| 18:16.23 | Rebecca | oh. do you just use the keyboard? |
| 18:16.27 | poli | (in opie) |
| 18:16.30 | Rebecca | ahh |
| 18:16.31 | Rebecca | ok |
| 18:16.33 | poli | No GPE works just fine. :) |
| 18:17.01 | Rebecca | you scared me for a second :) |
| 18:17.06 | poli | lol |
| 18:17.13 | poli | tried to retract that bid? LOL |
| 18:17.50 | Rebecca | hehe |
| 18:18.47 | poli | Have to go. See you later. |
| 18:18.49 | nusse | help, someone speaking |
| 18:18.58 | Rebecca | ok, seeya poli. thanks for the help :) |
| 18:19.06 | poli | Is that your conscience, nusse? |
| 18:20.00 | poli | You are welcome, Rebecca. :) |
| 18:20.55 | Rebecca | :) |
| 18:21.10 | Rebecca | hiya nusse. what hardware do you use? |
| 18:21.23 | nusse | Rebecca: ipaq h5450 |
| 18:21.36 | nusse | seems kinda unstable |
| 18:21.41 | Rebecca | ah, ok |
| 18:21.55 | nusse | poli: ;) |
| 18:23.40 | nusse | had several freezes |
| 18:24.03 | nusse | also opie is really strange, some configure dialogs seem to do just nothing |
| 18:25.06 | Rebecca | why not buy a device which is better supported? |
| 18:25.08 | Rebecca | ;) |
| 18:25.50 | nusse | i bought the device which was supported best |
| 18:26.00 | nusse | everything works a bit, but not really |
| 18:26.15 | nusse | perhaps its just opie and familiar unstable |
| 18:26.26 | Rebecca | (my comment was a bit of a stab, you said the same thing to me the other day) ;) |
| 18:27.02 | nusse | i remember;) |
| 18:27.16 | Rebecca | do you use a keyboard with yours? :) |
| 18:27.39 | nusse | i have it just for 3 days |
| 18:27.51 | nusse | currently im fighting with the onscreen keyboard |
| 18:28.11 | Rebecca | ahh |
| 18:28.25 | Rebecca | im not a fan of onscreen keyboards.. |
| 18:28.45 | nusse | well, if id learn than writing thingy, it could be ok |
| 18:30.30 | Rebecca | a while back i spilled water in my desktop's kbd. i worked weird hours for the next several days and unable to get a new one for several days. so i was stuck using an onscreen keyboard.. almost killed my mousing wrist :) |
| 18:30.55 | Rebecca | i know it's not the same as a touchscreen thing. but yeah :) |
| 18:31.54 | nusse | i miss accurracy and often type the wrong letters |
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| 18:37.11 | Rebecca | nusse: what kind of battery life do you get? |
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| 18:39.30 | nusse | Rebecca: im not sure, i think about 3h |
| 18:39.45 | Rebecca | hm, ok :) |
| 18:39.47 | nusse | Rebecca: the ipaq is used and the battery seems to be not calibrated |
| 18:40.47 | poli | nusse: Try xstroke |
| 18:41.10 | Rebecca | wb poli |
| 18:41.18 | poli | A lot like grafitti (is it written like this?) and full screen... very good |
| 18:41.43 | poli | Thank you, Rebecca. I remembered I had to burn a Project Gutenberg DVD as a gift before I leave. :) |
| 18:41.44 | nusse | how should i see what i type then? |
| 18:41.46 | Rebecca | not calibrated? the actual remaining charge differs from what the ipaq predicts? |
| 18:42.14 | Rebecca | poli: hehe. project gutenberg rocks... |
| 18:42.25 | Rebecca | if only copyright didnt last so long it would be even better |
| 18:42.31 | poli | nusse: you have to activate xstroke by clicking on the black pencil. it will turn green and then you can write anywhere on the screen. |
| 18:42.38 | nusse | Rebecca: ive noticed the first 1-2h it shows always 100%, and then it dies at 80-0% |
| 18:42.40 | poli | Rebecca: That is true! |
| 18:42.46 | nusse | poli: cute |
| 18:42.54 | nusse | poli: does it work with opie? |
| 18:43.31 | nusse | lalala, ive plugged the ipaq to power, it starts but seems to hang at boot |
| 18:43.38 | nusse | i should enable bootconsole now! |
| 18:43.39 | Rebecca | nusse: ouch. |
| 18:43.57 | nusse | the first boot fails nearly always |
| 18:44.13 | Rebecca | my old laptop was a presario. the battery was almost dead, but the charge indicator was very accurate |
| 18:44.17 | poli | nusse: no idea... you are the first (and only) opie user I have ever met. :) |
| 18:44.51 | Rebecca | poli: is GPR based on gnome? |
| 18:44.56 | nusse | mh, is it a xclient? |
| 18:44.58 | poli | Rebecca: GPE, yes. |
| 18:44.59 | Rebecca | GPE* |
| 18:45.15 | poli | GPE uses a real X server... opie uses a Framebuffer... |
| 18:45.25 | Rebecca | thought so.. the symbol and everything.. just couldnt find an actual reference to gnome anywhere :) |
| 18:45.32 | poli | So, I am not sure if you can use regular X programs with opie. |
| 18:45.37 | nusse | i thought using a xserver would be crap |
| 18:45.45 | poli | xserver rocks |
| 18:45.48 | Rebecca | hehe |
| 18:45.59 | poli | I can import and export things. :) Not to say x2x, which is real cute. |
| 18:46.23 | nusse | overhead |
| 18:46.28 | nusse | bla, but dunno |
| 18:46.30 | Rebecca | x2x? |
| 18:46.39 | nusse | Rebecca: keyboard/mouse ssh |
| 18:46.40 | poli | Yes. x2x :) |
| 18:46.57 | nusse | with opie you have to be root, which i dont like |
| 18:47.19 | nusse | perhaps i should try gpe now, will i be able to use all the data? contacts, calendar etc? |
| 18:47.50 | nusse | i dont even found something for opie-wide copy and paste! |
| 18:47.53 | poli | nusse: Well, programs are completely different... but you might have a working opensync or some other sync that will get the work done. |
| 18:48.29 | nusse | if devs very cute they would use the same formats |
| 18:48.38 | Rebecca | hmm.. i cant find a definition of x2x anywhere.. are you talking about connecting a x client to a remote x server? |
| 18:48.56 | poli | I am in the process of getting opensync working, as the multisync GPE plugin is outdated... |
| 18:48.56 | nusse | Rebecca: you can use your desktop keyboard and mouse on ipaq |
| 18:49.14 | Rebecca | nusse: ahhhh |
| 18:49.25 | nusse | poli: i dont know where to sync to |
| 18:49.38 | nusse | there are only crap plugins, imho |
| 18:49.44 | poli | Better yet... you can get the iPaq screen to be an extension of your X screen... |
| 18:49.52 | poli | nusse: sync to backup if in doubt. |
| 18:50.03 | poli | Or KDE PIM, but I don't know if it works. |
| 18:50.23 | poli | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:50.23 | poli | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:50.30 | poli | Rebecca: if you use debian, apt-get install x2x |
| 18:50.36 | Rebecca | does familiar include a (tight)vnc client and server? |
| 18:51.44 | poli | Rebecca: Yes. Take a look at ipkgfind.handhelds.org |
| 18:52.13 | nusse | can i ipkg remove opie and install gpe or should i reflash completly? |
| 18:52.44 | poli | nusse: I don't know. Well, I don't think so, but do ask koen or someone else in #handhelds.org and you might get a good answer. |
| 18:53.08 | Rebecca | poli: wow, impressive set of packages :) |
| 18:53.39 | nusse | na |
| 18:53.40 | poli | Rebecca: not all of them are as easy to install as ipkg install, but yes, quite impressive. :) |
| 18:53.42 | nusse | theres a lot missing |
| 18:53.51 | nusse | no openvpn in .8.3 |
| 18:53.58 | nusse | no jabber client at all |
| 18:54.03 | poli | nusse: Yet. |
| 18:54.11 | poli | Use the 0.8.2 feeds if you need. |
| 18:54.41 | nusse | thats what ive did |
| 18:54.56 | nusse | a lot of packages seem to be very old, is there still development? |
| 18:54.57 | poli | The 0.8.3 feeds are being updated daily... |
| 18:55.21 | poli | Can't really tell. But you can always get them compiled again installing OE. |
| 18:56.04 | nusse | is it simple to setup? |
| 18:56.18 | nusse | i thought about compiling a small jabber client with oe |
| 18:56.42 | Rebecca | awwwww, no synaptic ;) |
| 18:57.08 | nusse | i dont understand why theres no jabberclient, ppl cant live without that |
| 18:57.09 | poli | nusse: unfortunaly... not that simple. |
| 18:57.33 | poli | Might be simpler to get gaim jabber plugin working. |
| 18:57.43 | poli | Well, Now I have to go. See you later. |
| 18:57.44 | nusse | its crap |
| 18:57.52 | nusse | segfaults when using ssl |
| 18:57.57 | nusse | and segfaults also at other times |
| 18:58.02 | Rebecca | hmmm.. firefox 1.0 interesting |
| 18:58.09 | Rebecca | bye poli |
| 18:58.25 | nusse | so im gonna install gpe now |
| 18:58.36 | nusse | i filled so many contacts and calendar things |
| 18:58.39 | Rebecca | good luck nusse :) |
| 18:58.55 | Rebecca | awww |
| 18:59.27 | nusse | you have your journada already? |
| 18:59.37 | Rebecca | no, but i was close to buying one |
| 18:59.45 | Rebecca | until poli changed my mind |
| 19:00.05 | nusse | cool |
| 19:00.14 | nusse | what do you gonna buy now? |
| 19:00.55 | Rebecca | the ipaq 4700 seems nice |
| 19:01.00 | Rebecca | and affordable |
| 19:01.30 | Rebecca | just :) |
| 19:05.14 | nusse | how much is it? |
| 19:06.43 | Rebecca | http://h30094.www3.hp.com/product.asp?sku=2549736&extended=1 |
| 19:06.54 | Rebecca | but cheaper from ebay |
| 19:10.11 | nusse | 600 usd, much over my budget |
| 19:10.16 | nusse | i paid 180 euro |
| 19:11.38 | Rebecca | does it have 32mb ram? |
| 19:11.50 | nusse | 64 |
| 19:12.19 | Rebecca | ah, ok |
| 19:12.32 | Rebecca | how much onboard flash? |
| 19:12.37 | nusse | http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HandheldFeatureComparison |
| 19:12.40 | nusse | 48 |
| 19:12.47 | Rebecca | thanks :) |
| 19:17.21 | nusse | so, flashing gpe |
| 19:17.47 | nusse | i have just copied my /home/root from opie, and ill kill gpe if it cant import it;P |
| 19:18.04 | nusse | Rebecca: you should look for hw support, thats really usefull:) |
| 19:18.30 | nusse | Rebecca: in my opinion the only well supported ipaq is 5xxx, according to the table in the wiki |
| 19:18.40 | nusse | serial connection is slooow |
| 19:20.51 | Rebecca | yeah |
| 19:21.06 | Rebecca | haha. the ipaq numbering system goes all over the place |
| 19:25.53 | Rebecca | well.. 3100,3600,3700 seem out of the question. no storage expansion |
| 19:33.30 | nusse | ive noticed today that theres a small card slot behind the battery, as big as a simcard |
| 19:33.37 | nusse | dunno what it is |
| 19:34.03 | Rebecca | maybe used for programming the flash 'rom' |
| 19:34.55 | Rebecca | hmm.. the ipaq 5500 looks nice :D |
| 19:35.07 | Rebecca | but i can hardly find them on ebay :( |
| 19:35.46 | Rebecca | i found one but it only shipped to us |
| 19:39.00 | nusse | you can take a 5450 too |
| 19:39.17 | nusse | 5550 has just another cpu but same clock and 128mb ram instead of 64 |
| 19:39.20 | nusse | but much cheaper |
| 19:39.33 | nusse | where are you from? how much is the 5450 there? |
| 19:40.59 | Rebecca | im at australia |
| 19:41.29 | Rebecca | yeah, that's why i liked the look of the 5500. ram is good :) |
| 19:43.15 | Rebecca | argh.. i wish ebay seperated the accessories from the actual products. makes searching a pain |
| 19:43.48 | nusse | ebay is a pain in general |
| 19:43.59 | nusse | and there are no alternatives! |
| 19:51.30 | Rebecca | it's a pity most of the ipaqs arnt USB hosts. i usually have my mp3 player with me. it just acts as a standard mass storage drive. |
| 19:51.54 | Rebecca | and has an 80gig hdd |
| 19:52.05 | nusse | when i look at the documentation, gpe seems a lot better |
| 19:52.19 | nusse | 80gb, hui |
| 19:52.26 | nusse | i think 5xxx can do usb host |
| 19:52.32 | Rebecca | oh cool |
| 19:52.40 | nusse | 'think' |
| 19:52.44 | nusse | rumours |
| 19:52.55 | Rebecca | ill soon be upgrading it to 120gig. since it's almost full! |
| 19:53.23 | nusse | modell? |
| 19:53.30 | Rebecca | my player supports upto a 130gig 3.5inch hdd |
| 19:53.36 | nusse | ive got a 4g ipod 40gb |
| 19:55.20 | Rebecca | http://www.digmind.com/store/index_500.html |
| 19:56.10 | nusse | never heard of that |
| 19:56.11 | Rebecca | it's neither pretty or small.. but it holds over 1 month of music and plays ogg. so im happy :) |
| 19:56.13 | nusse | how much is it? |
| 19:56.43 | Rebecca | i got mine for 340AUD |
| 19:56.55 | Rebecca | but they are hard to find now |
| 19:57.12 | nusse | 340 Australian dollars = 211.907371 Euro |
| 19:57.14 | nusse | cheap |
| 19:57.18 | nusse | really cheap |
| 19:57.18 | Rebecca | yup |
| 19:57.27 | Rebecca | yup :) |
| 19:57.45 | nusse | i paid 360 for a 'presentation modell' |
| 19:58.11 | Rebecca | it's a very nice player if you dont mind the size. but was never very popular outside korea |
| 19:59.21 | Rebecca | oops. i meant 2.5inch above |
| 19:59.59 | Rebecca | well, if you find a cheap hd500 snap it up. i highly recommend them :) |
| 20:00.13 | nusse | of course, thats what i have read |
| 20:01.36 | nusse | uh, the first view of gpe looks really good |
| 20:02.51 | Rebecca | cool |
| 20:04.17 | Rebecca | http://www.harveynorman.com.au/viewPage.tho?targetType=claSitePage&target=350&crumbTrail=+Communications+%26+Office+Products+%3E+Pocket+Pcs+%3E+Pocket+Pcs <- the only ipaq's i have found from a normal australian retailer :/ |
| 20:06.28 | Rebecca | oh, and this shop: |
| 20:06.28 | Rebecca | http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/43e7acdd0058c4a8273fc0a87f9c0757/Export/catalogs/CTG0005763 |
| 20:07.07 | Rebecca | i think ebay is the way to go, hehe |
| 20:08.20 | nusse | jep |
| 20:08.37 | nusse | here you pay 2x if there is "navigation" in the subject of the article |
| 20:10.03 | Rebecca | what do you mean? |
| 20:10.10 | Rebecca | btw: where are you? |
| 20:10.45 | nusse | germany, twice price |
| 20:11.22 | Rebecca | cool :) |
| 20:12.55 | Rebecca | i still dont get what you mean by navigation.. where they mention you could (if you paid for a gps addon and map software) use it to navigate you on roads? |
| 20:13.27 | nusse | gps |
| 20:13.31 | nusse | just the word |
| 20:13.45 | nusse | even if it means only "you can upgrade it to use it as gps device" |
| 20:13.51 | Rebecca | i dont really see the point of those car GPS systems.. but then again. i can actually read a map :) |
| 20:14.05 | Rebecca | ahhhh |
| 20:14.06 | Rebecca | yeah :) |
| 20:16.29 | Rebecca | what size SD card do you with yours nusse? :) |
| 20:16.37 | Rebecca | you use* |
| 20:17.21 | nusse | i dont have an sd card |
| 20:17.27 | nusse | ive just tried a 256mb one |
| 20:18.21 | Rebecca | i have a 256mb SD i was planning to use for a microcontroller project. but i guess it could be given another use :) |
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| 20:33.25 | RomaXMANIAX | hello guys !!! |
| 20:34.14 | RomaXMANIAX | I've got some problems with Opie and my ipaq 5450, can someone help me ? |
| 20:35.19 | *** part/#familiar RomaXMANIAX (n=doudouil@ip-213-49-229-82.dsl.scarlet.be) |
| 20:37.31 | nusse | su does not work |
| 20:37.36 | nusse | does not set /sbin/ into path |
| 20:44.09 | Rebecca | hm. easily fixed right? |
| 20:45.16 | petoy | I've got problem with iPaq H3970 and booting into serial mode with my Macintosh G4 OSX 10.4.4. I've got a USB->PDA cable, shouldn't that do it? Can't find a sollution on the web. Any idéas? |
| 20:59.05 | nusse | Rebecca: yes |
| 20:59.35 | nusse | Rebecca: but; i started ipkg upgrade which does not stop on failures, so my complete installation has failed |
| 20:59.45 | Rebecca | awwww |
| 20:59.50 | Rebecca | ouch |
| 20:59.57 | nusse | petoy: the wiki said usb is not enough, get a serial |
| 21:02.22 | petoy | nusse: Mac PB G4 don't have a serial port. And I don't have a Serial->PDA cable, isn't it possible to emulate a serial port some way? |
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| 21:07.30 | nusse | cause the bootloader only knows serial, no usb |
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| 21:11.45 | Rebecca | :) |
| 21:13.53 | Rebecca | i was just looking through GPE screenshots and saw the difference between 320x240 and 640x480.. i think i need a hx4700 :) |
| 21:20.42 | nusse | ;) |
| 21:21.26 | Rebecca | hehe |
| 21:22.05 | Rebecca | now. i just need to figure out where to find one |
| 21:58.10 | Rebecca | also. i like the idea of both CF and SD slots. that way i can use one for additional OS/user stuff |
| 21:58.22 | Rebecca | and the other slot can be media |
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