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| 04:32.19 | thejapa | hey |
| 04:32.50 | thejapa | newbie question: after running git on the source tree, i just go around bitbaking stuff? |
| 04:33.10 | thejapa | no need to use monotone anymore? |
| 04:36.21 | mrgibson | uber newb question: what is bitbaking? |
| 04:39.37 | thejapa | it's a tool to build .ipk packages |
| 04:39.57 | mrgibson | cool |
| 04:40.04 | mrgibson | I was wondering how that was done |
| 04:40.16 | thejapa | say i want to test new gpe-calendar not yet ready for production, you need some tool to build dependencies |
| 04:40.40 | thejapa | and the tools to build binaries for say, ipaq h2200 |
| 04:40.47 | mrgibson | ah |
| 04:40.49 | mrgibson | ok, thanks |
| 04:41.07 | thejapa | welcome. it took me ages to understand, i just can't get it working yet. :) |
| 04:41.19 | mrgibson | hehe |
| 04:41.35 | mrgibson | oh the joy of the tinker-time open source provides ;) |
| 04:41.58 | thejapa | right, procrastination taken to new levels |
| 04:41.59 | mrgibson | looks like opie is the stuff |
| 04:42.13 | mrgibson | sharp-zarus compat. and all ... caught my eye |
| 04:42.28 | mrgibson | I'm usually pre-disposed to gtk things |
| 04:42.32 | thejapa | me too |
| 04:42.45 | mrgibson | its nice to know I can load both |
| 04:42.52 | mrgibson | I like to dork w/ wxwidgets and python |
| 04:43.08 | mrgibson | I have yet to fully sniff pyQT though, looks promising |
| 04:43.19 | mrgibson | I've long admired the ideas behind qt |
| 04:43.38 | mrgibson | I had wished the gnome people would catch a few clues from them |
| 04:43.56 | mrgibson | xfce4 is nice and light though |
| 04:44.30 | mrgibson | anyone working on getting the biometric functions supported? (hp5455) |
| 04:44.42 | thejapa | huh... i don't think you can load gpe apps in opie... |
| 04:44.43 | mrgibson | I'd love to use it to gen my gpg keys |
| 04:44.50 | mrgibson | ?? |
| 04:45.21 | thejapa | "mrgibson: its nice to know I can load both" i didn't undertood this line |
| 04:45.54 | mrgibson | I was under the impression that like a general computing device I can keep available gtk and qt libs |
| 04:46.08 | mrgibson | even though I may opt for gpe or opie |
| 04:46.14 | mrgibson | am I mistaken? |
| 04:46.56 | thejapa | unfortunately you are |
| 04:47.08 | thejapa | opie apps run on a small framebuffer |
| 04:47.14 | thejapa | gpe runs on a full x server |
| 04:47.20 | mrgibson | hmm |
| 04:47.28 | mrgibson | I didn't understand that, thanks |
| 04:47.30 | thejapa | you can even run remote x apps on handheld, from pc and vice versa |
| 04:47.43 | thejapa | yeah, it took me ages to understand that too |
| 04:47.54 | thejapa | :) |
| 04:48.04 | mrgibson | so it looks like i'd *have* to run gpe |
| 04:48.15 | mrgibson | it is to bum |
| 04:48.22 | thejapa | hehe, that's what everyone that sticks to gpe argue |
| 04:48.32 | thejapa | otoh, opie is fast! and slim |
| 04:48.43 | mrgibson | looked nice ... >sniff< |
| 04:49.10 | mrgibson | too many head-hurts to run an x server w/ opie? |
| 04:49.17 | thejapa | opie ppl say it's more alike to a pda than a linux device... |
| 04:49.43 | mrgibson | well, I suppose I can always dork w/ opie on qemu |
| 04:49.47 | thejapa | afaik, yes, the qt toolkit for embedded is specialized on being light. |
| 04:49.57 | thejapa | did you tried it? i haven't yet. |
| 04:50.11 | mrgibson | no, but I cannot imagine it being too hard |
| 04:50.27 | mrgibson | but of course, I'm the optimistic newb ... so, go figure |
| 04:50.51 | thejapa | right. so, when you do an opie app, actually, you just make a single window, very alike to palm, remember that? |
| 04:50.55 | mrgibson | is it possible to run an x server while opie is running? |
| 04:50.59 | thejapa | no |
| 04:51.11 | mrgibson | dev conflict I would imagine |
| 04:51.12 | thejapa | the other way around should be possible |
| 04:51.15 | mrgibson | k |
| 04:51.21 | mrgibson | opie under gpe? |
| 04:51.30 | mrgibson | ala sdl or some such? |
| 04:51.33 | thejapa | yep, X can make nested framebuffers |
| 04:51.39 | mrgibson | yeah |
| 04:51.49 | thejapa | i have no idea if it is possible to do that in such a small screen |
| 04:51.50 | mrgibson | well, that's that then |
| 04:51.59 | thejapa | no idea how to do that too. |
| 04:52.01 | thejapa | hehe |
| 04:52.04 | mrgibson | oh, it would be full screen switching |
| 04:52.16 | thejapa | yeah. it's a valid idea! :) |
| 04:52.31 | mrgibson | I'll probably put my efforts to making qemu go ... endless dorking without the bricking worries |
| 04:52.47 | mrgibson | I think I like a x/qt arrangement |
| 04:52.58 | thejapa | hehe, what's this dorking thing? i'm not natural english speaker. i'm brazilian |
| 04:53.05 | mrgibson | but I LOATH KDE (cough, windows-remake, cough) |
| 04:53.17 | thejapa | ah dorking=testing,fiddling |
| 04:53.18 | mrgibson | but qt is so bloody cool |
| 04:53.21 | mrgibson | yes |
| 04:53.26 | mrgibson | non-negative context |
| 04:53.31 | thejapa | ok |
| 04:53.53 | mrgibson | poking said problem space w/ a stick until a result pops out |
| 04:54.33 | thejapa | got it |
| 04:55.00 | mrgibson | my term is a personal assignment of meaning, the common usage may have a negative tinge to it |
| 04:55.18 | mrgibson | are you there now? |
| 04:55.36 | thejapa | hehe, i can imagine. yours is a h5xx? |
| 04:55.46 | mrgibson | brazil: buck up and take cheer, you will be one of the future world powers :) |
| 04:55.58 | mrgibson | h5455 |
| 04:56.40 | mrgibson | I'm rather impressed with it |
| 04:56.44 | thejapa | never! brazil is lost in hunger, poverty, dreams of being local superpower, arrogant, corruption and bad money distribution... |
| 04:56.56 | mrgibson | not as much memory as I'd like, but the options are nice: microdrives, etc |
| 04:57.03 | thejapa | and very little money put into education |
| 04:57.12 | thejapa | mine is a h2200 |
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| 04:57.20 | thejapa | i can boot from memory card |
| 04:57.26 | mrgibson | that will change I think --> this empire is choking under its own dysfunction right now as well |
| 04:57.33 | mrgibson | nice |
| 04:57.40 | thejapa | i have one mmc 256mb for opie |
| 04:57.47 | thejapa | and a 1gb cf for gpe |
| 04:57.49 | mrgibson | do you use it as an emergency boot module or something? |
| 04:58.13 | mrgibson | sweet |
| 04:58.28 | mrgibson | do you use a common memory area for documents, userdata? |
| 04:58.37 | thejapa | emergency? well i just shutdown it, plug the card i want and turn it on. |
| 04:58.52 | thejapa | no, i need to do it manually on a memory card reader |
| 04:58.56 | mrgibson | k |
| 04:59.09 | mrgibson | I actually have yet to turn the unit on |
| 04:59.20 | mrgibson | I wanted the first breath of life it knows as a linux one |
| 05:00.03 | mrgibson | I'm not sure if that is possible, the firmware updates that the wifi seem to need are *only* available via activeSync |
| 05:00.20 | thejapa | bad |
| 05:00.35 | mrgibson | I'm not sure how to get/burn the updates after linux |
| 05:00.40 | mrgibson | tricky bits |
| 05:01.22 | mrgibson | I may just dork w/ SquishySoft(tm)CE for a while and then load a real OS onto it after firmware updates |
| 05:01.54 | thejapa | maybe someone will devise a way to do it via linux. |
| 05:02.12 | mrgibson | perhaps, but I will need to do something sooner than that |
| 05:02.30 | mrgibson | one thing I really dig about these projects are the chat rooms |
| 05:03.00 | thejapa | lurker adiction? :) |
| 05:03.04 | mrgibson | between the FAQ, Wiki, Docs, and chat --> you can learn pretty much what you need to know from scratch |
| 05:03.07 | mrgibson | ? |
| 05:03.25 | mrgibson | newb ramp up factor actually |
| 05:03.36 | mrgibson | really helps with the learning curve |
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| 05:05.06 | thejapa | ppl are coming back |
| 05:05.06 | mrgibson | as long as I don't butt heads with an "I'm so cooler than thou" it goes prettywell for that |
| 05:05.06 | mrgibson | greetings all |
| 05:05.07 | thejapa | i call lurker addiction when you find out that you learn a lot from just lurking... and can't resist being a lurker just to learn some new bit of information |
| 05:05.13 | thejapa | it's like watching tv, only a lot more focused. |
| 05:05.47 | mrgibson | true |
| 05:05.49 | mrgibson | there is that |
| 05:05.59 | mrgibson | tid bit fishing |
| 05:06.02 | thejapa | hehe |
| 05:06.45 | mrgibson | there have been times where the chat inspires me to want to test and update online docs and such |
| 05:06.57 | mrgibson | takes a load off of the coders that |
| 05:07.22 | mrgibson | I think the most important things to doc are the do/undo procedures |
| 05:07.35 | mrgibson | particularly w/ the embedded stuff |
| 05:07.39 | mrgibson | easy to brick things |
| 05:07.56 | thejapa | right, and did you ever tried updating it? it's rewarding when people congratulate something you updated. |
| 05:09.03 | thejapa | this must be document updating addiction |
| 05:10.24 | mrgibson | no, I lost my apartment and it scrambled all my plans |
| 05:11.00 | mrgibson | addiction ... if you mean a burning desire to NOT make critical mistakes with a delicate procedure ... yes |
| 05:11.36 | mrgibson | a lot of docs are a year ... two+ years old ... um, needs a touch up at minimum me thinks |
| 05:11.55 | thejapa | addiction = the urge to do something getting some sort of pleasure in return. :P |
| 05:12.25 | thejapa | touch ups are nice |
| 05:12.39 | thejapa | we updated a few wiki pages for the h2200, they look sexy now |
| 05:12.51 | thejapa | not sexy... but a lot better than what they were. :) |
| 05:13.03 | mrgibson | not precisely pleasure (I think the discovery aspect does that), mostly a feeling of relative security as you know someone has blazed a trail before you and took copious notes. |
| 05:13.13 | mrgibson | always good :) |
| 05:14.32 | thejapa | what time in your place now? it's 2 am here. |
| 05:14.58 | mrgibson | 10pm-ish |
| 05:16.17 | mrgibson | have you tried out 8.4rcX? |
| 05:17.41 | thejapa | my gpe is 0.8.3-rc2 I guess. The opie is 0.8.4-rc2.3 |
| 05:18.08 | thejapa | the gpe has been removed from tree, it is now called 0.8.4-rc2.3 |
| 05:18.33 | thejapa | the rc2.3 only exists for h2200 and h47xx i guess, all others are rc2 |
| 05:18.34 | mrgibson | I just got confused |
| 05:18.42 | mrgibson | k |
| 05:19.53 | mrgibson | I have wondered whether to jump to the newest RC, or start off w/ a *stable* release |
| 05:20.15 | mrgibson | some projects are run so that their RCs are actually pretty stable |
| 05:20.29 | mrgibson | but I'm a newb to this set of projects so I don't know the pot holes yet |
| 05:20.47 | thejapa | it depends on a lot of factore |
| 05:20.52 | mrgibson | hmm |
| 05:20.53 | thejapa | factors |
| 05:20.57 | mrgibson | right |
| 05:21.18 | thejapa | for example, opie for h2200 was broken in 0.8.4-rc2.3 for a few weeks, it missed a few files |
| 05:21.30 | mrgibson | k |
| 05:21.33 | thejapa | someone fixed it, so it works now. |
| 05:21.40 | mrgibson | nice |
| 05:21.45 | mrgibson | not too bad turn around time |
| 05:22.00 | mrgibson | not a lot of coders just yet? |
| 05:22.13 | thejapa | until then, it was broken nobody could test it... and no good earliers builds too |
| 05:22.21 | mrgibson | ah |
| 05:22.26 | thejapa | no idea. :) |
| 05:22.26 | mrgibson | road block |
| 05:23.23 | thejapa | i'm trying to start programming for opie/gpe, but it's very complex. programming in itself is not difficult, compared to understand how open source works as a system |
| 05:23.51 | thejapa | gee my english is getting worst. I must be tired. |
| 05:23.55 | mrgibson | some things are common, but each project is managed differently |
| 05:24.01 | mrgibson | haha |
| 05:24.03 | thejapa | yep |
| 05:24.16 | mrgibson | the only portugese I know is 'obligato' |
| 05:24.20 | mrgibson | sp? |
| 05:24.31 | thejapa | obrigado |
| 05:24.35 | mrgibson | k |
| 05:24.57 | thejapa | r u USian? |
| 05:25.07 | mrgibson | American, yes |
| 05:25.15 | mrgibson | I do better with asian languages |
| 05:25.20 | mrgibson | oddly |
| 05:25.37 | thejapa | curious, are you asiatic? my nick is thejapa because I'm asian |
| 05:25.50 | thejapa | ppl here in brazil call me japa |
| 05:25.51 | mrgibson | no, scottish decent |
| 05:26.12 | mrgibson | I was introduced to asian characters as a child by my grandmother and it sort of stuck |
| 05:26.23 | mrgibson | odd twists of life |
| 05:26.27 | thejapa | however, calling me japa is not offensive as when english speakers use "nips" for asians |
| 05:27.08 | mrgibson | no worse than they call us, I know --> I've listened to them lamb-baste the 'round-eye' and didn't know I understood them |
| 05:27.37 | thejapa | hehe, ppl find it weird i can speak english and not one word of japanese. they believe it's in my blood |
| 05:27.42 | mrgibson | if they are particularly nasty I'll wait until they finish and toss them a phrase or two to maximize the discomfort |
| 05:28.04 | mrgibson | people assume a lot of things, yes |
| 05:29.07 | mrgibson | you find some languages easier to learn than others? |
| 05:30.01 | thejapa | spoken languages? i just speak english and portuguese, never tried any other |
| 05:30.14 | mrgibson | hmm |
| 05:30.20 | thejapa | english I learned by myself. |
| 05:30.25 | mrgibson | cool |
| 05:30.30 | mrgibson | through conversation? |
| 05:30.49 | thejapa | Would love to learn german, cantonese or mandarim... french, norwegian, swedish... |
| 05:30.55 | thejapa | no time to do that though |
| 05:31.03 | mrgibson | mandarin, russian here |
| 05:31.09 | mrgibson | interesting languages |
| 05:31.23 | mrgibson | japanese is on the list but not as high |
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| 05:31.50 | thejapa | hehe, i learnt english thru a old k7 tape course, when i was a kid. |
| 05:32.17 | mrgibson | cool |
| 05:32.30 | thejapa | when i grew a bit more I started playing RPG games, AD&D... and all manuals were in english |
| 05:32.37 | mrgibson | k |
| 05:32.57 | thejapa | then when I got into k12 school, I started programming and reading tech manuals |
| 05:33.21 | thejapa | finally came the internet boom and I got into meeting people over the web. :) |
| 05:34.05 | thejapa | ah. forgot to mention watching disney movies, singing rock... |
| 05:35.17 | thejapa | reading scifi too, curiously, in such a underdeveloped country like brazil... an english pocket book is about half the price of a portuguese paperback. |
| 05:37.17 | thejapa | so, i buy all my scifi books in english, 2 books for the price of one, nobody wants to borrow it, and i study english in my free time. |
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| 05:44.40 | mrgibson | who do you like to read the most (scifi)? |
| 05:45.14 | mrgibson | also, do you know of an open-source eBook specification - or is it all commercial out there? |
| 05:46.07 | thejapa | i'm not selective, just pick the usual guys. frank herbert, brian herbert, asimov, willian gibson, arthur c clarke |
| 05:46.27 | thejapa | no idea bout open source ebook |
| 05:46.39 | thejapa | people use old palm isilo format |
| 05:46.45 | thejapa | or plucker is very nice too |
| 05:47.25 | thejapa | i find some .chm files. but mostly for legitimate material... not exactly nice. |
| 05:47.35 | mrgibson | hmm |
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| 05:52.13 | mrgibson | plucker looks very cool, thanks |
| 05:53.23 | mrgibson | is there an ipkg for plucker? |
| 05:53.26 | thejapa | i used plucker a lot when I had a palm zire. damn i miss the toy, i should never have sold it. |
| 05:53.40 | thejapa | there should be |
| 05:53.50 | mrgibson | damn skippy there should |
| 05:53.56 | mrgibson | looks very nice |
| 05:54.04 | thejapa | you need a plucker distiller on your pc, and a plucker reader on your ipaq |
| 05:54.12 | mrgibson | yup |
| 06:17.27 | thejapa | good night all |
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| 08:24.10 | t120cc | Hi - Could anyone let me know - for building ipkg suitable for hx4700 running v0.8.4-rc2.3, should I still use oz354fam083, or dev or another branch? There's no v0.8.4 branch shown at oo.org/viewmtn, and no others came up on Google. TIA |
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| 20:00.28 | the_5th_wheel | join #gentoo |
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| 20:17.15 | emte | why? |
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| 23:43.02 | JDStone | is it possible to backup the The Mobile Windows OS before installing "Familiar" |
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