| 00:04.36 | Droppen | nope |
| 00:05.39 | Droppen | you dont really want to install the OS on any removeable drive.. its veery laggy, and thats why its not worth a try |
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| 09:14.59 | techba | yo people helllo |
| 09:15.02 | techba | anyone alive here ? |
| 09:15.03 | techba | :) |
| 09:39.50 | *** join/#familiar techba (n=razvan_a@86.34.139.42) |
| 09:51.58 | r3boot | techba: I am :) |
| 09:52.10 | r3boot | but it seems to be fairly quiet here |
| 09:52.20 | techba | oki |
| 09:52.32 | techba | man i need help with CRL bootloader |
| 09:52.41 | techba | i've got a 3760 |
| 09:53.12 | r3boot | hehe, can't help you there :P Just got my h2200 working so I'm pretty fresh to familiar |
| 09:53.12 | techba | with no wince on it :) i tryed a compaq os update and died |
| 09:53.18 | r3boot | ouch |
| 09:53.18 | techba | damn |
| 09:53.33 | techba | i'm good with electronics |
| 09:53.41 | techba | so i've converted the USB cradle |
| 09:53.49 | r3boot | isn't there a way to upload new firmware through JTAG? |
| 09:53.49 | techba | into serial cradle :) |
| 09:53.57 | r3boot | nice :) (I still need to do that :P ) |
| 09:54.15 | techba | i can now acces the parrot boot loader |
| 09:54.32 | techba | but i don't know how can i install crl bootloader via serial |
| 09:55.01 | techba | i can't either reinstall wince on it |
| 09:55.13 | techba | since USB Remote Update fails ... |
| 09:55.17 | techba | geezs |
| 09:55.37 | techba | if i could put crl bootloader |
| 09:55.46 | techba | i could install opie |
| 09:56.01 | techba | and maybe after wince .... |
| 09:56.07 | techba | if i wanna sell the device |
| 09:56.56 | techba | i think i'm gonna mail jamey hicks ... :P |
| 09:58.08 | *** join/#familiar Black_Cat_Alex (n=alex@balticom-157-52.balticom.lv) |
| 09:58.39 | Black_Cat_Alex | hi all |
| 09:58.52 | techba | hy Black_Cat_Alex |
| 09:59.11 | techba | are u profficient with familiar and CRL bootloader |
| 09:59.13 | techba | ? |
| 10:03.39 | techba | r3boot still around ? |
| 10:06.26 | r3boot | techba: somewhat, /me is at work and constanty flipping around desktops ;) |
| 10:07.19 | techba | r3boot me 2 but i'm cutting wires around here :)) |
| 10:08.04 | r3boot | hehehe, you a netadmin or something like that? |
| 10:12.13 | techba | yea |
| 10:12.26 | techba | more of the cableguy :)) |
| 10:26.12 | techba | mailed to jamey hicks ... |
| 10:26.20 | techba | hope he reads the spam :d |
| 10:34.01 | r3boot | hehe, let's hope :) Didn't the mailinglists give any useful information |
| 10:34.12 | techba | nope :( |
| 10:34.23 | techba | found some info 5 minutes ago |
| 10:34.47 | techba | statin' that parrot bootloader can't flash another bootloader |
| 10:34.56 | techba | only boots a preinstalled OS |
| 10:34.59 | techba | damn :( |
| 10:46.49 | techba | i might have a bricked ipaq |
| 10:46.51 | techba | :(( |
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| 11:53.42 | r3boot | techba: Does the thing have a JTAG? (And do you have the equipment to program it?) |
| 11:57.10 | techba | dunno |
| 11:57.15 | techba | if it has |
| 11:57.22 | techba | since it's a strongarm |
| 11:57.30 | techba | it should have |
| 11:57.42 | techba | equipment ...i'll build it ... |
| 12:14.00 | r3boot | that's the spirit ;) |
| 12:14.29 | techba | found jtag |
| 12:14.33 | techba | hardware schematic |
| 12:14.38 | techba | found software :P |
| 12:14.46 | techba | ok, i'm gonna build it :) |
| 12:15.00 | techba | brb to kill a paralele printer cable :D |
| 12:15.04 | techba | *paralel |
| 12:17.11 | r3boot | hehehe |
| 12:36.49 | *** join/#familiar r00t-Ed (i=SKA0ut@vrose-1.logical.net) |
| 12:36.54 | r00t-Ed | hi |
| 12:43.30 | techba | aloha |
| 12:44.37 | r00t-Ed | hi |
| 12:45.01 | techba | aloha :d |
| 12:45.03 | techba | :D |
| 12:45.15 | r00t-Ed | how's it going ? |
| 12:45.49 | r00t-Ed | i heard about your bootloader, sorry to hear that -_- |
| 12:49.33 | techba | yup |
| 12:49.38 | techba | that's life ... |
| 12:49.49 | techba | i'm trying jtag now ... found some info |
| 12:50.29 | techba | right now i'm searching for 4 resistors 100 Ohms in some old laptop i scraped from the backyard |
| 12:50.41 | r00t-Ed | i think i have the same 3670 or 73, can't remember |
| 12:51.06 | techba | yea ..shitty situation ... i wanted to install familiar |
| 12:51.11 | techba | installed crl |
| 12:51.27 | techba | backed-up parrot and wince image |
| 12:51.34 | techba | then i switched |
| 12:51.49 | techba | since i was having a usb only cradle |
| 12:52.01 | techba | put the parrot bootloader back |
| 12:52.17 | techba | used wince like 4 days |
| 12:52.49 | techba | and then since wince was in italian i wanted to do a rom upgrade to english |
| 12:53.07 | techba | and squat ... no more wince :) |
| 12:53.22 | techba | smth went wrong |
| 12:53.38 | techba | now i have parrot bootloader |
| 12:53.55 | r00t-Ed | i like the wince on it, i have tons of apps, but te wifi only supports wep |
| 12:54.03 | techba | yesterday i've moded my cradle to do serial .... :) |
| 12:54.18 | techba | and now i can acces parrot bootloader |
| 12:54.23 | r00t-Ed | yeah so much better, you can use minicom or hyperterm for shell |
| 12:54.40 | techba | but .... since flash is corrrupted |
| 12:54.44 | techba | i have no OS |
| 12:54.58 | r00t-Ed | you can't do much |
| 12:55.04 | techba | and no way of flashing smth else :( |
| 12:55.20 | r00t-Ed | my problem now is that after familiar i only have about 1mb free |
| 12:55.59 | r00t-Ed | i want to move / to the cf and keep only /boot on the ipaq |
| 12:56.17 | techba | nice.. |
| 12:56.19 | r00t-Ed | someone said yesterday that it is too slow, but i think it will be fine |
| 12:56.32 | r00t-Ed | the whole thing is slow |
| 12:56.41 | techba | high speed CF prices are going down ... |
| 12:56.59 | techba | or the controller card doesn't support them |
| 12:57.02 | techba | ? |
| 12:57.40 | r00t-Ed | i have the sleve with 2 pcmcia slots, in one i put 1gb cf on the other right now i have a ethernet pcmcia, later on i want to put the wifi back |
| 12:58.13 | techba | i have the 1 pcmcia sleeve too |
| 12:58.18 | r00t-Ed | but familiar does see the 1gb it mounts it on /media/cf or something |
| 12:58.35 | techba | haven't played with pcmcia in it yet |
| 12:58.45 | r00t-Ed | i can ssh in to mine now |
| 12:58.55 | r00t-Ed | but i have hardly any room |
| 13:00.09 | techba | my next pda is a 5555 :) |
| 13:00.27 | techba | biometric ..whupee :P hardly wait :) |
| 13:01.33 | r00t-Ed | my father in law gave me the ipaq, he upgraded to an axiom |
| 13:01.49 | r00t-Ed | i think if i ever buy one, it better have a keyboard |
| 13:02.30 | techba | foldable bluetooth :) |
| 13:02.34 | techba | works great |
| 13:02.58 | r00t-Ed | yeah, that could work |
| 13:03.52 | r00t-Ed | i don't think i wan't one though |
| 13:04.32 | r00t-Ed | i mean, if someone give me one, ill take it, but i don't think i will be buying one any time soon |
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| 13:23.08 | techba | r00t-Ed it's worth the cash |
| 13:40.05 | r3boot | hmm, what is it with Familiar that it comes with the fr-FR and de-DE localizations by default? |
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| 15:07.40 | r00t-Ed | wb |
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| 15:19.33 | techba | danke r00t-Ed |
| 15:29.02 | *** join/#familiar __warlock__ (n=warlock@host244-206-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:29.08 | __warlock__ | hello |
| 15:30.47 | techba | aloha |
| 15:33.39 | __warlock__ | Hello techba, haw are you? |
| 15:34.10 | __warlock__ | techba, are you a Familiar developer? |
| 15:39.23 | techba | i'm kinda upset |
| 15:39.31 | techba | i briked am ipaq 3760 |
| 15:39.42 | techba | no i'm not a developer |
| 15:39.46 | techba | just a user |
| 15:42.50 | *** join/#familiar Ge0rgy (n=Christop@p54A19534.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:43.32 | r00t-Ed | i think dev's dont hang out in here to avoid getting harassed by users |
| 15:43.42 | r00t-Ed | they have a secret irc channel |
| 15:43.53 | r00t-Ed | :) |
| 15:43.54 | reenoo | heh. no |
| 15:44.37 | techba | reenoo are u a dev? |
| 15:44.39 | techba | :P |
| 15:45.11 | __warlock__ | hi r00t-Ed |
| 15:45.30 | r00t-Ed | sup __warlock__ |
| 15:45.55 | reenoo | techba: I would think so, yes. that doesn't mean I know how to bring your 3760 back to life though |
| 15:46.06 | __warlock__ | r00t-Ed, I have a problem and I would like an hint from you, have yoyu time for me? |
| 15:46.58 | techba | reenoo nice to meet u, virtually speakin' |
| 15:46.58 | __warlock__ | r00t-Ed, is not exactly a technical problem |
| 15:47.03 | r00t-Ed | again, i am an user too, maybe if you ask someone else here knows the answer |
| 15:47.52 | r00t-Ed | ah __warlock__, techba made his USB cable a Serial cable, maybe if you ask him nicely he may tell you how |
| 15:47.53 | reenoo | __warlock__: general rule of thumb on irc: don't ask to ask, just ask. and ask the channel as a whole. if anyone knows an answer they will respond |
| 15:48.12 | techba | reenoo usually i find my own way arround but ..i came here to learn how to install crl bootloader from parrot cli ....that was 2h ago, since then i've solved my problem ....and anotherone came arrround |
| 15:49.17 | techba | now i'm working on am jtag hardware interface to try and flash crl bootloader the hard way :) |
| 15:49.28 | reenoo | techba: ah, ok. I managed to avoid bricking any devices so far >:) |
| 15:50.01 | techba | reenoo i tried the impossible change wince rom in italian to wince rom in english |
| 15:50.01 | __warlock__ | I have written a multyplaftform package manager that is a framework. You can build the software packages with the capability to adapt theyselve to the hardware and software target situation |
| 15:50.15 | techba | without having the italian rom to calculate the checksum .... |
| 15:50.27 | techba | i was playing with fire near a gas station :D |
| 15:50.52 | __warlock__ | The question is... How can I contact the Familiar developer to ask them if they are intersted in my OSS project?? |
| 15:52.01 | r00t-Ed | isn't c++ platform independent ? |
| 15:52.37 | r00t-Ed | you need the cross compiler and that should be it? |
| 15:52.43 | __warlock__ | r00t-Ed, I like C++ but I don't think so |
| 15:53.03 | reenoo | __warlock__: try sending mail to the familiar-dev mailing list. if that's the tcl thing I don't expect there to be much interest though. plain C is basically the only option for a number of reasons. |
| 15:53.06 | r00t-Ed | __warlock__ maybe on the mailing list ? |
| 15:54.36 | __warlock__ | reenoo, it is written exactly in TCL, so you think they will be no interested in it? |
| 15:56.29 | __warlock__ | reenoo, in C you must produce many packages for every different software and hardwer component |
| 15:57.10 | reenoo | __warlock__: other than for academic or prototyping purposes, no. a package manager is a crucial component that needs to be installed in any installation. C is virtually the only practical option there. |
| 15:57.27 | *** part/#familiar Ge0rgy (n=Christop@p54A19534.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:57.54 | __warlock__ | reenoo, my application allows the developer to build a single package with a great capability to adapt itself to the target enviroment |
| 15:59.01 | reenoo | __warlock__: well, like I said, feel free to send a description to familiar-dev@ |
| 15:59.49 | __warlock__ | reenoo, but why you think it is not usefull, I would understand you |
| 16:01.55 | __warlock__ | reenoo, are you still there? |
| 16:03.02 | techba | __warlock__ they are people like us who have other things in the same tine with the irc chat |
| 16:03.13 | techba | be pacient |
| 16:03.21 | techba | he will answear |
| 16:03.44 | r00t-Ed | brb lunch time |
| 16:04.01 | reenoo | __warlock__: I am, but what more can I say? for our needs the package manager has to be small, fast, and robust. a single binary written in C fulfills those requirements. anything written in an interpreted language doesn't. |
| 16:04.02 | __warlock__ | techba, sorry for my unpatience |
| 16:05.00 | reenoo | __warlock__: that is not to say ipkg was perfect. it needs a cleanup or a rewrite, desperately. but not in an interpreted language. |
| 16:05.47 | __warlock__ | reenoo, I absolutly agree with you. But the problem is to produce a multyplatform package, with C is almost impossible |
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| 16:13.31 | reenoo | __warlock__: well, I'm afraid that is not a problem to us as long as it can be built for all target architectures. |
| 16:15.46 | __warlock__ | reenoo, sorry for my delay I had a trouble with my cat.... |
| 16:16.39 | __warlock__ | reenoo, ok, thank you for your opinion, it is very important for me. |
| 16:17.18 | __warlock__ | I must go out, goodbye all |
| 16:19.43 | techba | __warlock__ was kinda dissapointed |
| 16:22.06 | techba | r00t-Ed have u finished eating ? :) |
| 16:23.34 | reenoo | techba: I was about to propose an alternative but he's already gone... |
| 16:23.52 | reenoo | techba: I'll try to send him mail if I get around to it |
| 16:27.16 | techba | his intentions were ok i say |
| 16:27.49 | techba | the little i know about programmmin' i can understand both ideas yours and his |
| 16:31.20 | reenoo | right, I did not question that. the point is we already have a prototype written in an interpreted language, we already have a first implementation in C. what we need now is a proper second generation implementation in C. |
| 16:32.17 | reenoo | I would be happy to come up with a spec for that and provide guidance or help with code directly |
| 16:32.20 | techba | c is faster ... than interpreted language |
| 16:32.49 | reenoo | it's not just that. ideally the package manager would have zero dependencies |
| 16:32.57 | techba | maybe u could collaborate in some form of modularity with include libraries that are cross platform |
| 16:32.58 | reenoo | other than libc6 |
| 16:33.18 | techba | yup zero dependecies sounds goood |
| 16:34.44 | techba | libraries that are crossplatform = isolate the differences in code and link to it from cross platform code |
| 16:38.33 | reenoo | well, take dpkg as an example (debian's package manager). it is used regularly on three different OS kernels and 12 different official architectures. you can write portable code in C |
| 16:39.45 | reenoo | the "take one package and install it on either windows ce or linux" is a solution looking for a problem. the application simply won't run on both platforms if it's native code. |
| 16:39.59 | reenoo | s/native code/a native binary/ |
| 16:40.35 | reenoo | ~stab ibot |
| 16:40.36 | ibot | ACTION runs at ibot with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 16:41.26 | techba | yup |
| 16:42.29 | techba | but u can make a core witch searches after OS ID and then load modules accourding to it |
| 16:46.13 | techba | anyway |
| 16:46.23 | techba | i don't know the specific terms |
| 16:46.32 | techba | i'm a hardware guy primarely |
| 16:46.45 | techba | if i want true modularity |
| 16:47.49 | techba | i get FPGA load the config protocol from an EEPROM eh voila ..custom hardware ( i mean digital specialised logic hardware) |
| 16:48.05 | techba | smth like this should be possible in software too |
| 16:49.39 | techba | change the algoritm ..i change the EEPROM software, cycle the power e voila ... |
| 16:49.52 | reenoo | yah, that's possible. but not something we need. less features and a clear/explicit control flow are crucial for a package manager |
| 16:49.54 | techba | i mean smth like transmeta crusoe microcode |
| 16:50.21 | reenoo | ipkg tends to shoot itself in the foot because it lacks that in some areas of the code |
| 16:50.42 | techba | in the early stage of development yeah that's a good strategy |
| 16:50.50 | techba | BUT ! |
| 16:50.55 | techba | there is a BIG BUT! |
| 16:51.07 | techba | if u want modularity later on |
| 16:51.24 | techba | u don't wanna recode 90% of your app |
| 16:51.39 | techba | neither patch'it like hell |
| 16:53.37 | reenoo | sure. but we've been through the first two stages already. we know what the application should look like now. there's little functionality missing. it just needs to be implemented right this time |
| 16:54.42 | techba | damn i need an electronic microscope ... these wires are small :) |
| 16:55.08 | techba | my ipaq looks like and cardiac surgery pacient :))))))) |
| 16:56.37 | reenoo | hehe |
| 17:08.58 | r00t-Ed | back :) |
| 17:11.05 | techba | r00t-Ed man u ate the hole florida ? :P |
| 17:11.08 | techba | hahahaha |
| 17:12.38 | r00t-Ed | :), no i actually did a tons of things, i didn't eat much |
| 17:12.48 | r00t-Ed | my "lunch" break is from 12 to 1 |
| 17:13.00 | r00t-Ed | but i do a lot more than just eat |
| 17:13.06 | techba | ok that's good |
| 17:13.12 | techba | i got a little scared |
| 17:13.17 | techba | :) |
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| 17:34.00 | _trine | http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=30520 |
| 17:42.36 | _trine | http://www.tazforum.thetazzone.com/viewtopic.php?t=2069. |
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| 18:37.38 | techba | r00t-Ed this jtag interface it's gona look smoken ! |
| 18:41.09 | r00t-Ed | :) how many wires? |
| 18:41.36 | r00t-Ed | does the ipaq has a jtag header? or you have to tap on test points ? |
| 18:42.22 | techba | test points |
| 18:42.26 | techba | exprapolated |
| 18:42.41 | r00t-Ed | how many wires? |
| 18:42.52 | techba | on the sole picture explanation made on a 3600 device |
| 18:43.07 | techba | hope theyr the same board and test points |
| 18:43.23 | techba | 7 wires |
| 18:43.32 | techba | vcc |
| 18:43.34 | r00t-Ed | i think the memory size changes between models |
| 18:43.35 | techba | trst |
| 18:43.52 | techba | that's software's problem ..aka jtag utils ... |
| 18:43.59 | techba | i'm cool with that ] |
| 18:44.17 | techba | tdo |
| 18:44.18 | techba | tdi |
| 18:44.26 | techba | tck |
| 18:44.28 | techba | tmi |
| 18:44.43 | techba | tmi = tms ..typo |
| 18:44.49 | techba | gmd |
| 18:44.52 | techba | gnd |
| 18:44.54 | techba | damn |
| 18:44.55 | techba | :d |
| 18:45.11 | r00t-Ed | ok, so is common |
| 18:45.43 | r00t-Ed | i have a couple of jtag cables, but i am not sure if they work with everything |
| 18:46.00 | techba | dunno |
| 18:46.01 | r00t-Ed | i have the one the the xilinx cplds |
| 18:46.02 | techba | anyway |
| 18:46.13 | r00t-Ed | and some for the ppc procs |
| 18:46.16 | techba | this schematic it's based on xilix one |
| 18:46.33 | techba | check it out |
| 18:46.34 | r00t-Ed | well, hurry up and fix it quik, so you can mount / in the cf and then teach me how |
| 18:46.35 | techba | http://openwince.sourceforge.net/jtag/iPAQ-3600/ |
| 18:46.44 | r00t-Ed | :) |
| 18:46.48 | r00t-Ed | ok |
| 18:47.06 | techba | damn |
| 18:47.09 | techba | broke a wire |
| 18:47.16 | techba | geez this things are small |
| 18:48.55 | techba | my soldering station is acting up again |
| 18:48.59 | techba | damn damn damn |
| 18:49.02 | r00t-Ed | oh that is great that you found it, i think that site should be liknked from the familiar wiki |
| 18:49.29 | techba | yup |
| 18:49.33 | techba | would be usefull |
| 18:50.06 | techba | reenoo whould u be so kind to link the info i gave to the familiar wiki ? |
| 18:55.18 | reenoo | i think the pinouts should be available somewhere on hh.org |
| 18:55.23 | reenoo | already |
| 18:55.50 | reenoo | but feel free to add a link to the wiki |
| 18:56.10 | techba | ok, haven't worked on a wiki till now |
| 18:56.20 | techba | every day i learn smth new :) |
| 18:58.50 | reenoo | hehe |
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| 19:04.44 | techba | r00t-Ed how short should the wires from lpt cable to ipaq pcb be ? |
| 19:04.51 | techba | reenoo? |
| 19:07.57 | r00t-Ed | base on the xilinx hold on |
| 19:09.18 | r00t-Ed | that one from te lpt connector to the end of the cables is 14 inches |
| 19:09.56 | techba | 14 iches thst's about 27cm .. |
| 19:10.00 | techba | ok, danke |
| 19:10.28 | techba | btw here it's 22.10, i'm from bucharest |
| 19:10.35 | techba | romania :) |
| 19:11.42 | r00t-Ed | ah cool, i was born in panama |
| 19:11.51 | r00t-Ed | but i live now in ny |
| 19:12.17 | techba | i see |
| 19:17.41 | r00t-Ed | ours is DIY too, but from www.renaelectronics.com |
| 19:37.11 | techba | DIY = ? dunno that term |
| 19:39.43 | r00t-Ed | do it yourself |
| 19:40.20 | r00t-Ed | like not manufactured, what you are doing right now :) |
| 19:41.11 | r00t-Ed | http://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=define%3A+diy |
| 20:06.33 | techba | i'm going to sleep |
| 20:06.39 | techba | see yea tomorow |
| 20:06.42 | techba | nighty night |
| 20:06.59 | r00t-Ed | bye |
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