| 03:21.37 | *** join/#fredlug plarsen (n=plarsen@68-69-102-223.chvlva.adelphia.net) |
| 03:38.49 | stickster | plarsen: I just sent you another reply |
| 03:39.01 | stickster | If you could give an example that would probably clear up any confusion |
| 03:44.26 | *** join/#fredlug IrishW0lf (n=william@70-41-145-17.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 03:45.18 | IrishW0lf | plarsen: Howdy, how are you? |
| 03:47.44 | IrishW0lf | I resolved my printer problem, and am now trying to figure out why my system stalls out after a long idle time. |
| 03:54.32 | plarsen | hey IrishW0lf |
| 03:54.40 | plarsen | darn it - night stickster |
| 03:55.06 | IrishW0lf | up late again, eh |
| 03:55.15 | plarsen | Me?? |
| 03:55.25 | plarsen | This is way early for me. I rarely go to bed on this side of 1am |
| 03:55.28 | IrishW0lf | yeah, you lol |
| 03:55.59 | IrishW0lf | i guess you keep about the same hours that i do |
| 03:57.01 | IrishW0lf | i don't know about stickster, he must have to get up at 0'dark thirty |
| 03:57.56 | plarsen | uhmmm - yeah. Quite a few people I know do that; get up at 3-4am, work to 15-16 hours and go home. Problem is, I've always been a night person. Iwork best at night. |
| 03:59.58 | IrishW0lf | know what you mean, I used to work from around 10 or 11 am until the wee hours of the morning |
| 03:59.58 | IrishW0lf | had to keep the same hours as the bad guys i used to chase |
| 04:03.58 | plarsen | hehe - I thought that was an urband legend that thieves etc. work at night?? :) |
| 04:07.01 | IrishW0lf | well, they may work earlier, but they party all night |
| 04:17.22 | plarsen | well, what better time to party?? :D |
| 04:17.32 | plarsen | Guess you didn't mean that kind of a party ;) |
| 04:25.26 | IrishW0lf | actually, i did. Amazing the places you find when you follow these guys around. |
| 04:25.53 | plarsen | Why do I see "Miami Vice" writen all over this?? lol |
| 04:26.27 | IrishW0lf | you bet, but i worked the streets of NYC |
| 04:26.56 | plarsen | same thing just colder huh?? hehe |
| 04:27.04 | IrishW0lf | yeah |
| 04:27.09 | plarsen | At least no crocodiles :) |
| 04:27.54 | IrishW0lf | no crocodiles, just two legged snakes <smile> |
| 04:28.01 | plarsen | hehe |
| 04:30.15 | plarsen | heh - I read the other day, that colombian drug lords had put out a death warrent on a drug-sniffing dog they found was too good .... *grin* |
| 04:30.36 | plarsen | Maybe there's more legs than just two on those snakes .. *grin* |
| 04:31.24 | IrishW0lf | i guess... |
| 04:32.12 | IrishW0lf | say, do you have any idea why my system times out after long periods of being idle |
| 04:32.25 | plarsen | Idle or use? |
| 04:32.31 | plarsen | I mean, are you sure it's just idle? |
| 04:32.42 | plarsen | What if you push your box for hours ... does it still "hang" ?? |
| 04:32.50 | IrishW0lf | well, i'm not at the keyboard |
| 04:33.38 | IrishW0lf | what happens is that i loose connectivity to the keyboard and responsiveness to any apps that i try to run |
| 04:33.54 | plarsen | try downloading seti-at-home ... and let it run. I'm pretty sure it's not related to idle at all. How long does it take before it "freezes up" ? |
| 04:34.26 | plarsen | Can you access the box from the network? |
| 04:35.17 | IrishW0lf | not sure exactly, never timed it but i think it actually varies. it appears to happen more when i leave irc open |
| 04:35.42 | plarsen | Well, my guess would be it's hardware/heat related. |
| 04:37.16 | IrishW0lf | possably. i moved the HD's around trying to get more circulation and i thought i had licked the problem but apparently not |
| 04:37.39 | IrishW0lf | i have two fans running at the back of the drives |
| 04:38.16 | IrishW0lf | one on the power supply and thne a second stand alone |
| 04:38.20 | plarsen | you should monitor temps of the box. Just boot to bios and let it sit there. If the temp goes up, you have an problem. |
| 04:39.09 | IrishW0lf | how long do you think it would take. i run the system 24/7 |
| 04:40.12 | plarsen | Well, until it happens. I would check it every hour ... if the temerature goes up, there's a problem. |
| 04:40.37 | IrishW0lf | i'll do that tonight. i'll shut down and then boot to bios and check the temp and then check again in the am |
| 04:41.09 | plarsen | there's also programs in linux to do that ... but I'm lost for what the program is called ;) |
| 04:41.52 | IrishW0lf | probably *SMART* or something like that |
| 04:42.01 | plarsen | smart is hdd |
| 04:42.37 | IrishW0lf | you mean it just messures the temp of the HD |
| 04:43.02 | plarsen | no, smart is like a "prognosis" that tries to predict when a harddrive will go bad. |
| 04:43.10 | plarsen | Instead of waiting for it to crash/ |
| 04:43.18 | IrishW0lf | ah, ok |
| 04:43.26 | plarsen | smartd deals with that on linux. |
| 04:43.45 | IrishW0lf | gotcha |
| 04:43.47 | plarsen | you can setup parameters for tollerance |
| 04:43.49 | plarsen | etc. |
| 04:44.34 | IrishW0lf | there must be a smard.conf then |
| 04:45.15 | plarsen | man 5 smartd.conf |
| 04:45.41 | IrishW0lf | would *dmesg* show me anything, or am i miss spelling it |
| 04:46.56 | plarsen | only if you have daemons that monitors your bios .... I think the easiest/fastest way is simply boot to bios. That way, if there's NO problem you know it's somewhere in linux |
| 04:48.07 | IrishW0lf | ok, so if i have an increase in heat temp, i need to revamp the inside of my box, yes? |
| 04:48.22 | IrishW0lf | or just take the cover off |
| 04:48.27 | plarsen | Defininate |
| 04:48.46 | plarsen | well - it depends on where the temp is too high. |
| 04:49.19 | plarsen | If it's the harddrives then give them air. Make sure air circulates. The cover is a temp solution to that but it may not solve it. If it's the cpu you need to reapply or maybe replace the cooling element. |
| 04:49.23 | IrishW0lf | how could you pinpoint that |
| 04:49.40 | plarsen | there's usually more than one place that monitors heat |
| 04:49.56 | IrishW0lf | ok |
| 04:49.59 | plarsen | if the cpu isn't increasing but the outside is, well it's most likely the hd, as they produce heat. |
| 04:50.15 | plarsen | feel with your hand too :) If it's very very hot where the drives are, that's the problem. |
| 04:51.16 | IrishW0lf | i actually hadn't thought about the cpu overheating, thanks for the thought |
| 04:52.01 | IrishW0lf | i'll have to check the fan |
| 04:52.36 | IrishW0lf | probably needs a good cleaning inside, lots of dust, ect |
| 04:53.09 | plarsen | that could certainly be it too. |
| 04:53.43 | IrishW0lf | haven't given it a good cleaning in a while, get in there with soap and water LOL |
| 04:55.09 | IrishW0lf | have you tried those bundled round cables instead of the flat ones |
| 04:55.47 | plarsen | for IDE? yep |
| 04:55.53 | IrishW0lf | i have lots of flat cables and power cables in a bunch |
| 04:56.02 | plarsen | Even "flushed" ones, where the wires are detached from eachother. |
| 04:56.08 | IrishW0lf | all restricting air flow |
| 04:56.16 | plarsen | A good thing about SATA is the small wires |
| 04:56.39 | plarsen | you can get powersupplies where you can insert only the necessary wires. |
| 04:56.46 | IrishW0lf | yes, i have one sata in this system attached to a pci card |
| 04:57.02 | plarsen | that way it becomes minimum with the number of wires in the box. |
| 04:57.22 | plarsen | I use plastic strips to get the wires "on the edge" of the box so they don't interfear with the flow |
| 04:57.31 | IrishW0lf | i guess i could cut unused ones |
| 04:59.12 | IrishW0lf | i have a total of about 6 HD's, one CD/DVD, a FD, and a ZIP drive in this system, prety crowded |
| 04:59.32 | plarsen | have you thought about consolidating your harddrives? |
| 04:59.40 | plarsen | It may be cheaper in electricity ;) |
| 04:59.54 | plarsen | you should have at least two extra fans in your case then. |
| 05:00.11 | plarsen | Make sure they blow in in the front, and out in the back. |
| 05:00.24 | IrishW0lf | i'll have to buy and install another then |
| 05:01.05 | IrishW0lf | i can feel the air being sucked in from the front |
| 05:01.31 | plarsen | If it's a full size tower, there should be room for two fans in the back ... and at least one in the front. |
| 05:03.10 | IrishW0lf | not sure where i would instal the front one, but i hadn't really thought of that, and yes there is another spot in the rear where i could place a second stand alone fan |
| 05:03.44 | plarsen | In most cases you have "holes" for a fan in the front (bottom) and in the back (sorta mid) ... |
| 05:03.56 | plarsen | Most mobo's have plugs for one front and one rear fan. |
| 05:04.22 | IrishW0lf | i'll have to check it out, thanks |
| 05:05.13 | IrishW0lf | this system is about going on three years old |
| 05:06.34 | plarsen | I had a system I finally took down about a year and a half ago. I've had the case since 89 I think. The mobo was from 98 I think. It had been running constantly as a domain controller/file server/web server etc. since 98 till I took it down. |
| 05:06.45 | plarsen | My office got SOOOOO quiet when I replaced it :) |
| 05:06.49 | plarsen | It was SO irrie |
| 05:08.00 | plarsen | It had 4 old scsi drives ... 5 at some point. It was when they started going bad I got a replacement. |
| 05:08.07 | IrishW0lf | i have two 350G HD's in raid conf but they are ntfs dynamic drives, can't use them under linux as yet |
| 05:09.31 | IrishW0lf | need to pull the data off, first and then reconf under ext3 for linux raid |
| 05:10.01 | plarsen | usb drive enclosure, 500G ATA drive, copy off / copy to :) |
| 05:11.29 | IrishW0lf | well, i have 500G sata in esternal enclosure but it is already 65% full |
| 05:12.11 | IrishW0lf | i'm running out of high capacity HD's |
| 05:12.52 | IrishW0lf | and my credit cards are too high |
| 05:13.30 | IrishW0lf | need more jobs |
| 05:13.30 | plarsen | well, no buy things you can't afford. |
| 05:13.30 | plarsen | if you have temporary space on a different box, copy to it. |
| 05:14.29 | IrishW0lf | oh, i'll have to figure something out. get rid of data i don't need any more, archive more, and consolodate |
| 05:14.48 | IrishW0lf | move stuff on DVD |
| 05:14.48 | plarsen | that's an option. or compress the files or something. |
| 05:15.06 | plarsen | ehhh, you need quite a few DVDs to back up 500g ;) |
| 05:15.09 | plarsen | Approx 80 :) |
| 05:15.33 | IrishW0lf | hadn't thought about that |
| 05:17.07 | IrishW0lf | i was looking at the tar man page, but not sure i understand how to archive using tar with compression |
| 05:18.08 | plarsen | z or j |
| 05:18.09 | plarsen | tar czvf tarball files-to-tar |
| 05:18.09 | plarsen | or |
| 05:18.10 | plarsen | tar cjvf tarball files-to-tar |
| 05:19.00 | IrishW0lf | ok so *tarball* is the name of the tar file and then i specify the directory or files to compress, yes? |
| 05:19.28 | plarsen | yes, tarball is the name for a "tar file". |
| 05:19.34 | plarsen | yes. |
| 05:20.08 | IrishW0lf | can i give a path to the tar file? |
| 05:20.14 | plarsen | remember to use an extension that makes sense. Usually you would use .tgz for the z compression, and tar.bz2 for the j compression |
| 05:20.15 | plarsen | sure! |
| 05:20.36 | plarsen | remember directories in the tar file will be done relative from your PWD |
| 05:21.31 | IrishW0lf | pwd is directory i am in, yes |
| 05:21.58 | IrishW0lf | i.e. home, etc |
| 05:22.09 | plarsen | yes |
| 05:22.14 | plarsen | type pwd on your command line ;) |
| 05:22.22 | plarsen | "print working directory" |
| 05:22.22 | IrishW0lf | right |
| 05:22.35 | IrishW0lf | just checking |
| 05:24.53 | IrishW0lf | so i could use from home dir: tar -czvf /mnt/hdb1/tar file /home/data/whatever |
| 05:25.33 | plarsen | yes. you don't need the - ... but it works with it too. |
| 05:25.39 | plarsen | remember, no spaces in the file name, unless you put the filename in " " |
| 05:25.50 | IrishW0lf | gotcha |
| 05:27.04 | IrishW0lf | how much compression do you actually get if you were to tar a directory with its subs |
| 05:27.21 | plarsen | that entirely depends on what files you're compressing |
| 05:27.34 | plarsen | text files I would expect anything from 80 to 98 % compression |
| 05:27.37 | IrishW0lf | they would be drive image files |
| 05:28.01 | IrishW0lf | uncompressed |
| 05:28.22 | plarsen | Depends on how much data there is. If there's a lot of unused space > 50% .... if it's very full of let's say images, < 50% |
| 05:29.21 | IrishW0lf | hang on |
| 05:29.24 | plarsen | but you don't want the drive image. you want the files |
| 05:31.12 | IrishW0lf | well the image files comprize approx 60% of a 275G hard drive |
| 05:31.55 | plarsen | then I would expect < 50% ... |
| 05:32.02 | plarsen | most images are already compressed |
| 05:32.42 | IrishW0lf | these were made with dd no compression |
| 05:33.16 | plarsen | if you want to migrate the data, you don't want to use dd if you're taking the data from ntfs |
| 05:34.02 | plarsen | I don't know if you know, but "zip" is also there on linux. |
| 05:34.15 | plarsen | you can zip your drive up from windows, and you can then read the zip file on linux. |
| 05:34.42 | IrishW0lf | worked ok for me, md5 sum was same for cated image as the original |
| 05:35.42 | plarsen | Well, if your excersize is to migrate from ntfs to ext3, then you don't want to use dd |
| 05:36.53 | IrishW0lf | what would you suggest, after all they are only files |
| 05:37.06 | IrishW0lf | the images that is |
| 05:37.35 | plarsen | zip/tar - something that copies the files logically without filesystem dependencies |
| 05:38.12 | plarsen | then you can write them from windows read them from linux. Or if you can mount from linux, you basically copy from one filesystem format to another. |
| 05:38.50 | IrishW0lf | ah, but i take the full drive physically, i.e. dd if=/dev/sdb |
| 05:40.07 | plarsen | then all you can do is write back that excat same format .... or if you're "lucky" you can do a loop back mount ... regardless, dd takes everything even the space not used. It's always a much bigger file. |
| 05:40.35 | IrishW0lf | understand |
| 05:40.53 | IrishW0lf | loop back mount does work |
| 05:42.00 | IrishW0lf | it's always the unallocated space that i find the most things |
| 05:44.21 | plarsen | Well, by lucky I mean you have to have the image in an uncompressed format for the loopback to work. If you do the logical file copy, you can copy from/to a compressed format. And you don't get that pesky free space with "nothing" in it ;) |
| 05:44.28 | plarsen | Unless of course, that what' you're hired to look at ... hehe |
| 05:45.44 | IrishW0lf | under windows, there is always something in that *pesky* free space |
| 05:46.21 | plarsen | well, all filesystems are like that. As you prolly know, there's no "rubber" on computers. Computers don't erease. They just change pointers. |
| 05:46.41 | IrishW0lf | yeppers |
| 05:48.06 | IrishW0lf | i had one job, i couldn't find diddly. Until i looked at it with a hex editor. |
| 05:49.12 | IrishW0lf | the guy had wiped the entire drive from the FD using norton's wipe info. all i saw was hex ff on the entire dirive |
| 05:50.16 | IrishW0lf | using the hex editor i found remnents of the FD path |
| 05:51.38 | plarsen | there's usually ways around that too; but you need to get the drive out of the enclosure etc. to read "behind" the resently written layer. |
| 05:52.11 | IrishW0lf | too expensive for most humans |
| 05:52.40 | plarsen | ohhh yeah; but if it's a criminal investigation ... it aint the "human" paying for it ... it's al lthe other humans ;) |
| 05:52.53 | IrishW0lf | and i certainly don't have the equipment or expertise |
| 05:53.09 | IrishW0lf | that's for the alphabet agencies |
| 05:54.15 | plarsen | lol - "3 letter" offices ;) |
| 05:54.40 | IrishW0lf | yeah, those |
| 05:55.13 | plarsen | Well, I know there are places that does fire-recovery for companies which uses the same methods to recover from disasters. |
| 05:55.24 | plarsen | But as you say, it's really really expensive. |
| 05:56.18 | IrishW0lf | yeah, the majority of my work has been civil domestic stuff, bread and butter cases |
| 05:56.51 | plarsen | "he had an affair - emails on his computer!" ;) |
| 05:57.04 | IrishW0lf | you got it |
| 05:57.09 | plarsen | yeah, I bet that gets kinda "trivial" at some point. |
| 05:57.55 | IrishW0lf | well i did one and found that the guy really loved his wife, and told the client so |
| 05:58.05 | IrishW0lf | she was very greatfull |
| 05:59.19 | IrishW0lf | and it's never trivial to the client. they just get mad when i can't find that "smoking gun". |
| 05:59.27 | plarsen | uhmm - yeah; I just can't help thinking about next time she'll not believe him ;) |
| 05:59.32 | plarsen | I bet. |
| 06:00.16 | IrishW0lf | i still have an attorney that owes me a couple of grand |
| 06:00.41 | plarsen | I've been chatting for almost 2 decades now ... and quite frankly I've never been as surprised as the other month, where the husband of a online frined of mine, took the keyboard and thanked me for "talking his wife into staying with him" .... that was sorta wierd .... |
| 06:00.54 | plarsen | He'd installed a "tracer" and had seen her chats with me. |
| 06:01.08 | plarsen | hey, charge him interest for late payment ;) |
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| 06:01.43 | IrishW0lf | i should really do that |
| 06:02.04 | IrishW0lf | hi quigleymd_afk |
| 06:02.52 | plarsen | hehe |
| 06:03.06 | IrishW0lf | well i guess quigley didn't want to stay and chat |
| 06:03.35 | plarsen | lol - or his computer decided against logging on ;) |
| 06:04.04 | IrishW0lf | i was just going to ask if that was what was meant |
| 06:05.01 | IrishW0lf | well, guy, i guess it's time to say good night. got to get some zzzs |
| 06:05.26 | IrishW0lf | nice chating with you and thanks for the tips on the system |
| 06:05.32 | plarsen | np |
| 06:05.39 | plarsen | good luck with the conversion |
| 06:05.39 | IrishW0lf | night |
| 06:05.43 | plarsen | night |
| 06:05.45 | IrishW0lf | thanks |
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| 15:57.45 | plarsen | Good (late) morning |
| 15:59.11 | jsmith | Hello plarsen |
| 16:38.28 | plarsen | hey jsmith |
| 16:38.36 | plarsen | had a small crisis here ... now I'm back ;) |
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| 17:09.06 | plarsen | stickster_work, I don't know if you got my "reply" on the list and if my example made any sense? |
| 17:09.27 | plarsen | HA! Just saw your reply! |
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