| 03:01.41 | *** join/#fredlug jsmith (n=jsmith@68.247.95.55) |
| 04:53.06 | *** join/#fredlug plarsen (n=plarsen@c-24-125-211-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 05:33.27 | *** join/#fredlug IrishW0lf (n=william@70-41-188-87.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 18:13.57 | *** join/#fredlug doublejoon (n=doublejo@d-74-214-44-92.metrocast.net) |
| 18:14.07 | doublejoon | hi |
| 18:21.33 | stickster | hi doublejoon |
| 18:25.20 | doublejoon | just studying hopefully RHCE in February |
| 18:25.35 | stickster | Good luck on it! |
| 18:26.05 | doublejoon | yeah will need it.....This Michael Jang book is helping |
| 18:26.14 | doublejoon | revised for RHEL 5 |
| 18:26.28 | stickster | ISTR hearing good things about that one. |
| 18:30.17 | doublejoon | After the holidays I should be able start participating more with the meetings |
| 18:31.50 | stickster | Hey cool! |
| 18:32.04 | stickster | We are trying to do an InstallFest at the January Saturday meeting |
| 18:34.27 | doublejoon | wow ...sounds neat. I never actually participated in one |
| 18:34.37 | stickster | They're cool... if people show up ;-) |
| 18:34.52 | doublejoon | I will make plans to come |
| 18:35.36 | doublejoon | do I need to bring any discs (any distro?) |
| 18:36.54 | stickster | doublejoon: Just sign up on our groups page to bring something if you like |
| 18:37.01 | stickster | http://groups.google.com/group/fredlug |
| 18:37.22 | stickster | Hit "Pages" and you'll see the TODO there, and you should already have rights to edit the page |
| 18:40.37 | doublejoon | I have an old set of Alesis studio monitors and amp |
| 18:41.52 | stickster | You're welcome to bring them, although I suspect it might be more than you really want to carry ;-) |
| 18:42.23 | stickster | I have an extra set of Altec Lansing computer speakers w/sub which probably comes in at about 1/2 the weight! :-D |
| 18:42.50 | stickster | Pro music amps are rarely fun to cart |
| 18:43.24 | stickster | I'll probably be bringing other stuff, so I yield to your generosity! |
| 18:44.16 | doublejoon | maybe we can setup an NFS installation server |
| 18:49.33 | stickster | doublejoon: Well, I plan on having a cobbler server setup at least for CentOS 5 and Fedora 8 |
| 18:50.03 | stickster | That takes care of all the PXE/NFS/HTTP diddling |
| 19:19.29 | doublejoon | hmm I never knew about cobbler....looks neat |
| 19:23.20 | stickster | I wrote a new appendix in the Fedora Installation Guide for this release explaining how to set it up |
| 19:23.55 | stickster | It's pretty slick! |
| 19:40.39 | *** join/#fredlug plarsen (n=plarsen@c-24-125-211-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 19:40.51 | plarsen | howdy |
| 19:47.06 | plarsen | I'm trying to find /etc/hotplug to setup access/privs to my usb. Well, that's not there ;( Any ideas? |
| 20:00.58 | stickster | plarsen: howdy |
| 20:01.10 | stickster | plarsen: You want the udev scripts, most likely |
| 20:01.24 | stickster | What's the specific device with which you're having problems? |
| 20:04.55 | plarsen | well, yeah - problem is no usb is mentioned on the udev.rules .... |
| 20:05.06 | plarsen | Camera - I've used it on some earlier kernels |
| 20:05.20 | plarsen | The gnome camera download app pops up and will download all photos |
| 20:05.31 | plarsen | However, now it claims it doesn't have access to the usb devices. |
| 20:05.39 | plarsen | It only has "read" to the devices as far as I can see. |
| 20:06.14 | stickster | There are a couple different USB "modes," and not all of them deliver R/W fs functionality |
| 20:06.46 | stickster | I think the PPTP mode is the default nowadays, and may not show up as a mounted fs |
| 20:07.02 | plarsen | It's NOT detected as a file system |
| 20:07.09 | plarsen | The camera model (powershot G2) is too old for that. |
| 20:08.03 | plarsen | http://rafb.net/p/gXdNNp69.html |
| 20:08.22 | stickster | What does 'dmesg' say when you attach? |
| 20:08.23 | plarsen | dmesg reports when the camera is connected: |
| 20:08.23 | plarsen | usb 3-1: new full speed USB device using uhci_hcd and address 2 |
| 20:08.23 | plarsen | usb 3-1: configuration #1 chosen from 1 choice |
| 20:08.29 | plarsen | LMAO!! |
| 20:10.03 | stickster | You might want to remove the camera, then rename your .gphoto/ folder to a backup name and see what happens |
| 20:11.24 | stickster | If nothing, try the command-line client: gphoto2 --auto-detect |
| 20:11.56 | plarsen | hmmm - not sure it uses .gphoto. I renamed it, reconnected and still it's remembering my last settings |
| 20:12.47 | stickster | plarsen: I think anything using libgphoto2 uses ~/.gphoto |
| 20:13.20 | plarsen | Well, there's no differene :( Still getting: An error occurred in the io-library ('Could not claim the USB device'): Could not claim interface 0 (Operation not permitted). Make sure no other program or kernel module (such as sdc2xx, stv680, spca50x) is using the device and you have read/write access to the device. |
| 20:13.54 | stickster | And you're the only one logged in at the console, right? As your normal user, etc.? |
| 20:14.03 | plarsen | yes |
| 20:14.19 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ w |
| 20:14.19 | plarsen | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:14.19 | plarsen | USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT |
| 20:14.19 | plarsen | plarsen pts/2 :0.0 14:41 0.00s 0.33s 0.00s w |
| 20:14.19 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ |
| 20:15.09 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ gphoto2 --auto-detect |
| 20:15.09 | plarsen | Model Port |
| 20:15.09 | plarsen | ---------------------------------------------------------- |
| 20:15.09 | plarsen | Canon PowerShot G2 usb: |
| 20:15.09 | plarsen | Canon PowerShot G2 usb:003,005 |
| 20:15.36 | stickster | Is it possible your haldaemon stopped running? sudo /sbin/service haldaemon status |
| 20:15.46 | stickster | And you didn't turn off ConsoleKit, right? |
| 20:15.57 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ sudo /sbin/service haldaemon status |
| 20:15.57 | plarsen | hald (pid 2704) is running... |
| 20:16.13 | plarsen | You got me on the ConsoleKit - have no clue what it is ;) |
| 20:16.21 | stickster | sudo /sbin/service ConsoleKit status |
| 20:16.36 | plarsen | ok - also running |
| 20:16.47 | stickster | Another question... Can you pastebin your whole 'w' output/ |
| 20:16.48 | stickster | ? |
| 20:16.55 | plarsen | I just did? |
| 20:17.03 | plarsen | See above |
| 20:17.10 | plarsen | Just before the gphoto2 |
| 20:17.12 | stickster | There's no gnome-session running? |
| 20:17.23 | plarsen | ?? They don't show up on w |
| 20:17.29 | stickster | Errr. |
| 20:17.46 | stickster | [pfrields@localhost ~]$ w 15:17:06 up 2 days, 21:09, 6 users, load average: 0.09, 0.14, 0.26 |
| 20:17.48 | plarsen | gdm creates a session - that's what I see; not gdm itself. |
| 20:17.50 | stickster | USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT |
| 20:17.52 | stickster | root tty1 - 15:14 2:28 0.02s 0.02s -bash |
| 20:17.55 | stickster | pfrields tty7 :0 11:14 0.00s 3:06 0.45s /usr/bin/gnome-session |
| 20:17.58 | stickster | pfrields pts/0 :0.0 11:14 5.00s 10.28s 10.17s ssh 192.168.0.2 |
| 20:18.01 | stickster | pfrields pts/1 :0.0 12:57 14:29 0.76s 0.76s bash |
| 20:18.03 | stickster | pfrields pts/2 :0.0 15:03 12:32 3.19s 3.10s watch -n1 sudo du -sk /var/cache/yum |
| 20:18.07 | stickster | pfrields pts/3 :0.0 15:05 0.00s 0.24s 0.00s w |
| 20:18.34 | plarsen | Nope ... I only see "gnome-session" when I try things from vnc etc. |
| 20:18.35 | stickster | plarsen: What distro are you using? |
| 20:18.42 | plarsen | When they aren't started "normally" by gdm |
| 20:18.44 | plarsen | f7 |
| 20:18.59 | stickster | OK, I'm on F8, and using a box locally, and my 'w' output (q.v. above) clearly shows gnome-session |
| 20:19.06 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ sudo w |
| 20:19.06 | plarsen | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.06 | plarsen | USER TTY FROM LOGIN@ IDLE JCPU PCPU WHAT |
| 20:19.06 | plarsen | plarsen pts/2 :0.0 14:41 0.00s 0.36s 4.52s gnome-terminal |
| 20:19.31 | plarsen | I've NEVER seen tty7 mentioned on my w |
| 20:19.36 | plarsen | hmmmm |
| 20:20.15 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ sudo /usr/sbin/lsof | grep usb |
| 20:20.15 | plarsen | pcscd 2185 root mem REG 253,0 32948 14117766 /usr/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 |
| 20:20.15 | plarsen | pcscd 2185 root 6u REG 0,17 111 281 /proc/bus/usb/002/003 |
| 20:20.15 | plarsen | hpiod 2349 root mem REG 253,0 32948 14117766 /usr/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 |
| 20:20.15 | plarsen | python 2354 root mem REG 253,0 32948 14117766 /usr/lib/libusb-0.1.so.4.4.4 |
| 20:20.15 | plarsen | hald 2704 haldaemon mem REG 253,0 153943 14483518 /usr/share/hwdata/usb.ids |
| 20:20.52 | plarsen | Well, if I get my chance I'll sneak down in my office soon and get an f8 up and running ;) |
| 20:22.39 | stickster | In any case, the USB ownership should be coming through hald |
| 20:24.10 | plarsen | Hey - do you know any linux admins that are looking for jobs? |
| 20:25.12 | stickster | Not off the top of my head, but you should post to FredLUG! |
| 20:25.25 | stickster | Maybe one or more of our members are entertaining offers |
| 20:26.51 | plarsen | hmmm - yeah. I got a few through MA-JOBS - but they're too novice :( |
| 20:26.59 | plarsen | I had one guy who barely knew the boot process |
| 20:28.09 | stickster | What kind of qualifications did you require? |
| 20:29.07 | plarsen | 3-5 years of working with linux; redhat preferred; extensive LVM knowledge (he/she will have to do a lot of cloning of OS's). Knowing VMware is a big plus. |
| 20:29.28 | stickster | You should probably have a blurb for RHCT required, RHCE preferred |
| 20:29.38 | stickster | (or equivalent cert) |
| 20:29.49 | plarsen | hmmm - I had a few RHCEs ... they didn't really impress me |
| 20:30.02 | plarsen | If I asked a question a little outside the manual, they both clambed up. |
| 20:30.43 | stickster | Well, the RHCE isn't going to be directly applicable to every specialized situation out there. But you do know if someone passes that test, they can probably pick up the ball pretty quickly. |
| 20:31.01 | stickster | Playing "Stump the RHCE" isn't going to ensure you'll get the most qualified candidates either ;-) |
| 20:31.40 | plarsen | I don't really. I don't make any difference in the questions I ask certified and non-certified. So far the non-certified have ventured much better |
| 20:31.57 | doublejoon | where is the position at? |
| 20:31.59 | stickster | It'll really depend on their real-world experience more than anything |
| 20:32.11 | stickster | You could always post for RHCA which is a way higher bar. |
| 20:32.14 | plarsen | The last RHCE I talked to Friday was the one who didn't know what the MBR was :) |
| 20:32.23 | stickster | jeebus. |
| 20:32.24 | plarsen | McLean (beltway) |
| 20:32.27 | stickster | That's awful. |
| 20:32.33 | doublejoon | aww |
| 20:32.58 | stickster | He slept through class, apparently |
| 20:33.01 | doublejoon | Im closer to Fredericksburg/KingGeorge/Dahlgren area |
| 20:33.11 | plarsen | hehe - so am I :) |
| 20:33.16 | plarsen | I still go to McLean every day though |
| 20:33.25 | doublejoon | how long is the commute |
| 20:33.35 | plarsen | For me?? Depending on traffic - 1.5 - 3 hours each way |
| 20:33.59 | plarsen | I can make it faster than 1.5 if it's holiday traffic |
| 20:34.04 | plarsen | My GPS thinks it's about an hour ;) |
| 20:34.40 | plarsen | But we do have remote/offsite work hours |
| 20:34.57 | doublejoon | I really dont like my new position now....Not enough Linux for me.....Solaris/M$.....very little Linux |
| 20:35.10 | doublejoon | but 10 min commute |
| 20:35.10 | plarsen | we got nothing but Linux ... about 50 nodes |
| 20:35.20 | plarsen | hey - 10 minutes is hard to beat! |
| 20:35.24 | plarsen | And more to come |
| 20:35.33 | doublejoon | I came from supporting 300+ RH servers/workstations |
| 20:36.00 | plarsen | I need someone who'll help me convince the developers to use Linux instead of Windows when they run their IDE :) |
| 20:36.12 | plarsen | That's pretty cool |
| 20:36.19 | plarsen | Sorta the type of guy I'm looking for |
| 20:36.36 | plarsen | Like setting up a central update repository isn't like a brand new idea ;) |
| 20:37.21 | doublejoon | Im still trying to convince these folks that a Satellite Server is a good thing |
| 20:37.31 | plarsen | stickster: But back to the RHCE - I learned a long time ago that certifications/diplomas doesn't matter didelido |
| 20:38.17 | plarsen | doublejoon: For how many nodes? That's an expensive undertaking .... for simply syncing updates that's shooting way over the goal ?? |
| 20:38.20 | stickster | One thing RHCE is good for is to determine that someone has a certain level of hands-on experience. It's not going to be enough for every situation. But I'd never hire a Linux admin without one. |
| 20:39.11 | doublejoon | I took the RHCE in 05 and only completed the RHCT out of it |
| 20:39.33 | stickster | There are higher-level certs for other situations, like RHCDS, which is probably what you'd be interested in. |
| 20:40.01 | plarsen | My employer is now telling me and others we'll need certifications ;) Not sure which one to take first. Personally I think it's a waste of money. If someone came from managin 300+ nodes, I don't care what papers he has. |
| 20:40.03 | doublejoon | I just want to conquer that beast for my own personal |
| 20:40.21 | stickster | Experience trumps everything, sure. |
| 20:40.44 | plarsen | doublejoon: Based on what I've seen on the ppl that came with RHCE - I'm not too impressed. Maybe I just got a few bad apples ?? |
| 20:40.49 | doublejoon | I am dealing with the same issue.....they want you to certify on everything you touch |
| 20:41.17 | stickster | plarsen: Your not being impressed != bad apples. That's a very subjective measure. |
| 20:42.26 | plarsen | stickster: What I find is, if I use the "right keyword" meaning what they read in the manual, they know the answer. If I describe the concept they're clueless?? |
| 20:42.31 | doublejoon | we had a kid just out of college....he worked the college data center.....In my opinion he ran circles around most of the certified folks |
| 20:42.52 | stickster | plarsen: A communications breakdown is a bad thing for a job interview, no doubt. |
| 20:43.10 | plarsen | That's why I ask the same questions with different words .... |
| 20:43.22 | plarsen | I thought I had made it easy ... but I'm starting to doubt it. |
| 20:43.35 | plarsen | I've talked to 4 so far ... none of them could describe a boot process of Linux without help |
| 20:43.46 | plarsen | That last one was very bad thouhg ;) |
| 20:43.57 | stickster | Well, that's just being unprepared. |
| 20:44.08 | plarsen | I even showed him a grub.conf and asked him what "root=/....." meant .... |
| 20:44.10 | plarsen | NO CLUE :) |
| 20:44.12 | stickster | But exactly how germane is the Linux boot process to your day-to-day work? |
| 20:44.37 | plarsen | stickster: When we do manual migrations to/from VMs - quite a lot. |
| 20:44.57 | stickster | Well, you should be listing "thorough knowledge of Linux boot processes" as a qualification then! |
| 20:45.08 | plarsen | you have to manually create grub configurations, mbr and root filesystems |
| 20:45.14 | stickster | No reason for people to waste your time if they are clueless |
| 20:45.32 | plarsen | I do a short phone interview always |
| 20:45.43 | plarsen | That weeds out the candidates that falls out. |
| 20:45.55 | plarsen | That last guy had a bad phone connection (IP) and I didn't hear half of what he said. |
| 20:46.03 | plarsen | I thought I heard the right stuff - but I obviously didn't. |
| 20:46.12 | plarsen | so I'm going to adjust me phone interview questions. |
| 20:46.32 | stickster | I'm kind of surprised your candidates didn't know better... esp. considering you can learn quite a bit about Linux boot processes in about 1/2 hour of reading. |
| 20:46.45 | plarsen | right ... |
| 20:46.51 | plarsen | I'm very surprised myself |
| 20:47.15 | plarsen | The ones that did better where the ones who'd played with linux at home for years. |
| 20:47.28 | plarsen | The certified candidates didn't fare any better, sometimes worse than them |
| 20:47.34 | plarsen | It's just too little experience ... |
| 20:47.42 | stickster | I have a feeling that the boot process is one of the hardest for people who haven't done that. |
| 20:47.56 | doublejoon | You should ask your candidates if they use Linux at home |
| 20:48.00 | stickster | I used (and broke, and fixed, and used, etc.) Linux for several years before I ever did an RHCE class, and it made all the difference. |
| 20:48.04 | stickster | doublejoon++ !!! |
| 20:48.13 | plarsen | stickster: I disagree. IT was one of the first things I had to learn about on the PC? |
| 20:48.30 | plarsen | doublejoon: I do |
| 20:48.31 | stickster | plarsen: It's atypical, trust me. |
| 20:49.21 | stickster | I speak from many years (and 1,000+ students) worth of experience :-) |
| 20:49.47 | plarsen | stickster: I |
| 20:50.07 | stickster | But I will tell you that the boot process *definitely* tripped up some people in my first RHCE class that I did back in 2001 |
| 20:50.09 | plarsen | stickster: I'm not looking for students but experienced admins ... I would definitely not be this "tough" if I was looking for entry level admins |
| 20:50.17 | plarsen | brb |
| 20:50.56 | stickster | Even experienced admins often don't have to worry about boot process if they're not in the data center -- it's not uncommon to be fielding boxes based on recipes prescribed by a system architect's office |
| 20:51.12 | stickster | But like you, I feel it's important to know |
| 20:51.43 | stickster | Having gone through that material at home, on my own, as part of running Linux at home in the late 90's really prepared me better for RHCE than anything else |
| 20:52.01 | stickster | I breezed through the exam while many other people in my class who were paid admins failed the exam |
| 20:53.21 | stickster | Like I said before, though, if you truly want to have a selection of good candidates, then your qualifications statements need to reflect what you really need them to know. Otherwise you're dooming yourself to (1) pointless phone time interviewing people who aren't right for the job, (2) skewed perceptions of what people out there know or don't know, and (3) migraines :-) |
| 21:01.16 | plarsen | back |
| 21:02.48 | plarsen | point taken stickster .... |
| 21:03.26 | stickster | I'm cobbling up a F7 box to compare with your results |
| 21:04.29 | stickster | plarsen: BTW, is that box an upgrade or a fresh install? |
| 21:06.06 | plarsen | fresh |
| 21:06.55 | stickster | plarsen: What kernel are you using? |
| 21:07.14 | plarsen | 2.6.23.1-21.fc7 |
| 21:07.26 | plarsen | should be the latest. It just upgraded the kernel a few days ago |
| 21:08.40 | stickster | http://www.fedoraforum.org/forum/showthread.php?t=170607 |
| 21:08.57 | stickster | Unfortunately, the solution shown there is a workaround and not a real fix. |
| 21:09.39 | stickster | But it will get you by -- "0644" is the right mode if the device was owned properly, which ConsoleKit should be doing. |
| 21:10.01 | stickster | What version of ConsoleKit do you have? |
| 21:11.12 | plarsen | Interesting... I'm not even close to what they claim is the default setup: |
| 21:11.12 | plarsen | BUS=="usb", KERNEL=="sd*", ATTRS{bInterfaceClass}=="08", \ |
| 21:11.13 | plarsen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:11.13 | plarsen | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:11.21 | plarsen | I'm 660 which would explain why. |
| 21:11.28 | plarsen | do I need to add my user to the floppy group? |
| 21:11.42 | plarsen | [plarsen@plarsen-laptop ~]$ rpm -q ConsoleKit |
| 21:11.42 | plarsen | ConsoleKit-0.2.1-2.fc7 |
| 21:12.02 | stickster | Uhh.. is that the same line? |
| 21:12.17 | plarsen | the \ makes it one line. It's 3 different lines. |
| 21:12.39 | stickster | plarsen: :-P I meant, is that the line in the thread I linked above? |
| 21:13.01 | plarsen | no ... they claim the mode by default is 644 .... |
| 21:13.05 | plarsen | Mine is 660 |
| 21:13.24 | stickster | I think you're looking at the wrong line |
| 21:13.30 | plarsen | Ok, I think I need to relogin to activate the floppy on the gnome session. |
| 21:13.33 | plarsen | I'll be riiiiight back |
| 21:13.42 | stickster | There shouldn't be a KERNEL=="sd*" call for a camera-related dev |
| 21:13.50 | stickster | I guess you're looking at something different for now |
| 21:14.10 | *** join/#fredlug plarsen (n=plarsen@c-24-125-211-129.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 21:14.23 | plarsen | Darn it!! |
| 21:14.43 | plarsen | So much for my ideas |
| 21:18.45 | plarsen | Ok, did the 666 thing and its working |
| 21:27.41 | stickster | I have a feeling this is something to do with that printf, but I'm not sure what. |
| 21:29.36 | doublejoon | Is cobbler a replacement to system-config-netboot? |
| 21:31.14 | stickster | doublejoon: It's way more than that |
| 21:31.47 | stickster | It's a solution for netbooting or serving installation media/trees to all the clients in your network |
| 21:32.13 | stickster | Install it and do a 'man cobbler' for a ton of (actually readable!) information |
| 21:33.08 | doublejoon | I'm looking for it now in CentOS 5 |
| 21:34.12 | stickster | It's probably in the EPEL repo |
| 21:38.07 | stickster | http://linux.nssl.noaa.gov/epel/5/i386/epel-release-5-2.noarch.rpm |
| 21:48.05 | doublejoon | I got it thanks |
| 21:48.33 | doublejoon | noaa hosting? |
| 21:48.48 | doublejoon | I worked for NOAA for 8 yrs |
| 22:07.23 | doublejoon | well night all.... thanks for the link stickster |
| 22:07.36 | stickster | see ya doublejoon |
| 22:07.38 | stickster | np |