| 00:12.44 | formi | eye69: ? |
| 00:57.39 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@home.irvined.co.uk) |
| 00:57.41 | irvined | evening |
| 00:57.54 | formi | hiya |
| 01:04.11 | *** join/#gllug formi_ (~formi@82-35-34-190.cable.ubr01.camd.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 01:23.26 | formi_ | irvined: ? |
| 01:25.57 | irvined | heh yes, just dozed off at the kb again |
| 01:27.44 | eye69 | formi |
| 01:28.13 | formi_ | eye69: did you get a ping from me about 2 mins ago? |
| 01:28.52 | formi_ | im messing with ipv6 and btexact |
| 01:28.54 | eye69 | Not that I know of. |
| 01:29.06 | formi_ | pinging you now |
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| 01:47.16 | formi_ | nice |
| 01:48.05 | formi | haha |
| 01:54.37 | formi | still testing |
| 02:01.05 | formi | l |
| 02:07.04 | formi | off to bed |
| 04:43.38 | JD | anyone know why I am up at this time in the morning? |
| 05:34.47 | *** join/#gllug irvined (~irvined@home.irvined.co.uk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 06:01.28 | new2unix | moin all |
| 06:19.00 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@host81-132-190-244.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 06:19.13 | zachary | moin |
| 07:11.30 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@user-2282.wfd20.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 07:11.45 | zachary | moin Leeds |
| 07:11.55 | Leeds | boker tov |
| 07:34.27 | Leeds | the exterminator has just been... hopefully, he won't be back |
| 07:41.02 | zachary | bbl |
| 07:52.03 | Tarragon | Post arrived with Quake |
| 07:52.40 | Tarragon | So that will be the whole of today wasted :-) |
| 07:53.24 | Leeds | quake? really?> |
| 08:05.30 | Leeds | heh... enough members of my team work at home often enough... that the "I'm working from home" mails simply consist of the subject line "wfh" and a phone number in the body of the mail :-) |
| 08:23.24 | Tarragon | Well Quake III Linux version |
| 08:23.50 | Tarragon | What router did he recommend? |
| 08:26.36 | murb|SK | Leeds: doesn't office have aircon? |
| 08:27.00 | murb|SK | Leeds: and you don't have VoIP VoIP pabx at work? |
| 08:29.27 | Leeds | office does have aircon... |
| 08:29.52 | Leeds | we don't have voip - don't really have a big enough pipe into the office for it to work nicely, I think... |
| 08:29.58 | Leeds | ah, QIII |
| 08:30.47 | Leeds | PAE-CE61 |
| 08:31.22 | Leeds | we have a couple of people who commute quite a long way, hence the working from home |
| 08:55.00 | Xiaoqi | hi |
| 08:55.42 | Leeds | ho |
| 08:55.50 | Leeds | not you! |
| 08:55.56 | Xiaoqi | :( |
| 08:57.21 | Leeds | that is... I'm not accusing you of being a ho |
| 09:04.09 | Leeds | how are you then? |
| 09:49.21 | JD | moin |
| 09:50.10 | Leeds | hey |
| 10:05.39 | Xiaoqi | peekaboo |
| 10:15.43 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@user-1533.wfd20.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 10:20.13 | Leeds | ping? |
| 10:52.50 | JD | pong? |
| 10:53.08 | Leeds | man are you lagged |
| 10:53.42 | JD | only by 32 minutes |
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| 11:32.37 | Xiaoqi | hihi |
| 11:33.40 | Leeds | hoho |
| 11:34.05 | JD | huhu |
| 11:36.18 | JD | hmmmmmm you what? |
| 11:37.20 | Leeds | got a real ADSL modem/router thing to replace the frog |
| 11:40.42 | JD | ah good |
| 11:40.43 | Leeds | ah, um... |
| 11:40.55 | Leeds | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:41.09 | JD | doh |
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| 12:26.26 | Clyphox | Moo |
| 12:29.26 | *** join/#gllug zachary (~zachary@host81-129-55-227.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 12:29.38 | zachary | afternoon |
| 12:30.11 | zachary | Anyone using smoothwall with a dmz? |
| 12:47.53 | gregj | dmz? |
| 12:48.44 | zachary | demiliterized(sp) zone |
| 12:49.06 | gregj | no, i am not using smoothwall anywa |
| 12:52.00 | zachary | how's it going gregj? |
| 12:52.47 | gregj | so so |
| 12:53.00 | gregj | are you going to bletchely this weekend ? |
| 12:53.41 | zachary | Hope so. My wife wanted to go, but with the transportation, it might be just me. |
| 12:53.58 | zachary | r u going? |
| 12:54.10 | gregj | yep |
| 12:54.22 | gregj | 17th its my birthday :-) |
| 12:55.12 | zachary | Make a post to the mailing list. See how much of a party we can make it. |
| 12:55.20 | gregj | hehe |
| 12:55.45 | gregj | well, i already did when Rich has announced meeting |
| 13:03.01 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~rc112576@beryllium.eu.sun.com) |
| 13:27.59 | Leeds | ? |
| 13:31.33 | Leeds | I spent a chunk of time trying to get the VPN working... came in to find a global mail announcing the VPN authenication was dead |
| 13:32.02 | gregj | well, you have to read your email sometimes |
| 13:32.06 | gregj | what do you have there |
| 13:32.07 | gregj | ? |
| 13:32.14 | gregj | what kind of vpn |
| 13:32.27 | gregj | CIPE+SecIP |
| 13:32.30 | gregj | or something ? |
| 13:36.56 | irvined | well i'd thoroughly recommend the spice of life somewhere near charing X road |
| 13:37.10 | irvined | up all night which is on every monday has a wicked blues jam session. |
| 13:55.06 | JD | hmmm could do with having a slightly brighter screen, but never mind |
| 13:55.59 | Leeds | some cisco thing |
| 13:56.14 | Leeds | irvined: sounds like fun |
| 14:39.22 | Leeds | nice and cool here |
| 14:46.31 | JD | same here |
| 14:46.44 | JD | Leeds: any idea why my magic point stuff is not working anymore |
| 14:51.16 | irvined | Leeds: yeah i was with friends i hadnt seen in ages and was very relaxing |
| 15:00.15 | Leeds | irvined: I'll remember that :-) |
| 15:00.21 | Leeds | JD: in what way is it not working? |
| 15:03.47 | JD | no text |
| 15:05.45 | Leeds | fonts? |
| 15:07.55 | nasrat | foreground and background colour the same? |
| 15:08.57 | JD | nope |
| 15:09.09 | JD | think it might be due to them being opaque |
| 15:09.20 | Leeds | been using PowerPoint and you *have* no text - or other useful content - in your presentation? |
| 15:11.56 | JD | nope change in mgp |
| 15:12.32 | Leeds | really? I thought it was largely dead |
| 15:13.02 | Leeds | guess I'm wrong... |
| 15:14.09 | JD | 1.10a |
| 15:14.20 | JD | david-laptop david% mgp -v |
| 15:14.21 | JD | mgp version 1.10a (20030624+debian) |
| 15:21.34 | JD | hmmmm tabs are doign funny things |
| 15:22.49 | JD | no just me |
| 15:22.49 | nasrat | you mean causing bullets :) |
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| 18:11.01 | Jenson | heya |
| 18:11.29 | nasrat | evening Jenson |
| 18:11.59 | Jenson | heya nasrat honey |
| 18:12.40 | Leeds | foo |
| 18:12.59 | Jenson | heya Leeds |
| 18:13.49 | Leeds | morning |
| 18:34.21 | Jenson | am i all alone here too? |
| 18:55.19 | gregj | sure |
| 18:57.51 | gregj | lwn.net/Articles/40063/ |
| 18:58.03 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@user-1285.bbd01tcl.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 18:58.03 | gregj | looks like there are some nasty connections between SCO and SUN |
| 18:58.06 | gregj | lwn.net/Articles/40063/ |
| 18:58.08 | gregj | looks like there are some nasty connections between SCO and SUN |
| 18:58.33 | nasrat | yeah, some ppl have worked for both |
| 18:58.35 | nasrat | :P |
| 18:58.42 | Leeds | who? not me |
| 18:59.14 | Leeds | I never worked for Caldera |
| 18:59.46 | Leeds | oh god - two more copies of the ultimate spam |
| 18:59.56 | gregj | nodays SCO is neither Santa cr. op. or Caldera |
| 19:00.11 | gregj | few blokes trying to make money on others work |
| 19:00.42 | Leeds | gregj: Caldera bought a significant chunck of SCO - and later changed their name to SCO... the company is Caldera under a new name |
| 19:01.07 | Leeds | anyway... are you trying to imply something? |
| 19:02.02 | gregj | well, what they are doing now is just fighting against rest of the world |
| 19:02.13 | gregj | but indeed, IBM broke the law |
| 19:02.31 | Leeds | how so? |
| 19:02.55 | gregj | SCO today published few clues regarding code that was copied |
| 19:03.00 | Leeds | no they didn't |
| 19:03.06 | gregj | www.7thguard.net |
| 19:03.12 | gregj | first article from top |
| 19:03.19 | gregj | it is in polish, but ttthere is nice link - click it |
| 19:03.22 | gregj | adn read |
| 19:03.24 | Leeds | they said exactly what they've said before, using slightly different words |
| 19:03.49 | gregj | they gave a bit more information this time |
| 19:04.10 | Leeds | okay |
| 19:04.20 | Xiaoqi | hihi |
| 19:04.26 | Leeds | they made up the name of a non-existant company, and added a few random numbers |
| 19:04.36 | gregj | probably |
| 19:04.43 | gregj | maybe |
| 19:04.44 | gregj | who know |
| 19:05.15 | Leeds | when they show files side by side from Linux and Unix with the same code in - then I'll believe it |
| 19:05.33 | gregj | they never will do so |
| 19:05.42 | Leeds | they will have to, in court |
| 19:06.07 | gregj | court can hide evidence form public |
| 19:06.24 | Leeds | to some extent |
| 19:06.35 | gregj | and i bet SCO will ask for it |
| 19:06.59 | gregj | in case of microsoft trials fe, code was never public domain |
| 19:07.12 | gregj | always under non disclousure agreement |
| 19:07.17 | gregj | or whatever it spelling for that |
| 19:07.26 | Leeds | the microsoft trials weren't a copyright issue - they were a monopoly abuse issue |
| 19:07.37 | gregj | well, last one |
| 19:07.47 | gregj | 500 milion dollars to pay |
| 19:07.58 | gregj | this is about 2y bills income |
| 19:08.14 | Leeds | that was a patent issue - also not a copyright issue |
| 19:11.35 | gregj | anyway, if they will have to pay |
| 19:11.42 | Leeds | who they? |
| 19:11.53 | gregj | this will mean that windows licence price will go like 2 times up |
| 19:11.55 | gregj | m$ |
| 19:11.59 | Leeds | oh, right |
| 19:12.08 | Leeds | I don't think so - they can pay it from cash |
| 19:12.52 | Jenson | oh ffs, why dont i have a disc for a piece of win software when i want it, so many bloody internet dics and i cant find it |
| 19:13.15 | Leeds | it's windows. it doesn't matter |
| 19:13.25 | gregj | :-) |
| 19:13.28 | Jenson | Leeds: it does, coz i dont know how to do it in kde |
| 19:13.38 | gregj | read, ask |
| 19:13.39 | Leeds | so? learn |
| 19:14.13 | Leeds | toom? |
| 19:15.06 | gregj | use mozilla |
| 19:15.13 | gregj | its free, you can download it |
| 19:15.17 | gregj | and you can create HTML with it |
| 19:15.26 | Jenson | i have mozilla |
| 19:15.27 | gregj | and than just change with editor |
| 19:15.30 | gregj | so use it |
| 19:15.31 | gregj | :-) |
| 19:15.34 | gregj | FP is a crap |
| 19:15.56 | Jenson | i like FP, its very, microsoftly eaisy |
| 19:16.08 | gregj | you must be jokeing , right ? |
| 19:16.19 | gregj | mozilla is also easy |
| 19:17.21 | Jenson | and where might i find a hrml editor with moz? |
| 19:18.37 | gregj | ech |
| 19:18.41 | gregj | it is named composer |
| 19:18.46 | gregj | look for it :-) |
| 19:18.47 | Jenson | lol |
| 19:19.38 | gregj | and ? |
| 19:19.46 | gregj | have you learned more than i did ? |
| 19:19.55 | gregj | look at the bottom line in mozilla |
| 19:20.00 | gregj | third icon from left |
| 19:20.15 | Jenson | oh teh lol |
| 19:20.17 | Jenson | s/yeh |
| 19:20.19 | Jenson | cool |
| 19:20.56 | gregj | you're welcomed |
| 19:21.29 | Jenson | god i hate html |
| 19:24.08 | Jenson | fsck knows where it is |
| 19:24.15 | gregj | so use mozilla |
| 19:24.20 | gregj | time to learn something else |
| 19:24.27 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-198-67.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 19:24.44 | Jenson | gregj: nah time not to bother updating the fscking thing |
| 19:25.03 | gregj | ?? |
| 19:25.04 | Jenson | im depressed, and i do not need this shithead of a computer making it worse |
| 19:25.08 | gregj | sure |
| 19:25.13 | gregj | ech |
| 19:25.19 | gregj | you will never learn anything this way |
| 19:26.36 | stephanb | Jenson: hiya |
| 19:27.24 | Jenson | i'll find that bastard piece of software |
| 19:33.03 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@user-329.bbd01tcl.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 19:33.55 | gregj | how is o |
| 19:33.58 | gregj | your router |
| 19:34.21 | Leeds | not quite doing what I want |
| 19:34.33 | gregj | bad boy |
| 19:34.37 | gregj | buy a new one :/ |
| 19:34.44 | gregj | or is it just a PC |
| 19:35.49 | Leeds | it's a new hardware one - got it this morning |
| 19:37.19 | gregj | do you have new line already ? |
| 19:37.28 | Leeds | ? |
| 19:37.33 | Leeds | you mean new ISP? |
| 19:37.34 | Leeds | no |
| 19:38.31 | gregj | why www.gllug.org.uk does not work ? |
| 19:38.40 | gregj | is it so hard to put www. in DNS ? |
| 19:38.58 | Leeds | you want to do it? |
| 19:39.11 | gregj | i don't have rights to do anything on servers |
| 19:39.20 | Leeds | exactly |
| 19:40.25 | gregj | Leeds: does it mean that i have no right to request change ? |
| 19:40.32 | Leeds | gregj: no |
| 19:41.06 | Leeds | why do you assume that other people can make changes on the - hosting us for free as a favour - server? |
| 19:41.06 | gregj | it is litelary one change in DNS config, ndc reload, in apache (if it is only virt. domain), and /etc/rc.d/init.d/apache restart |
| 19:41.20 | Leeds | we don't control the DNS to that extent |
| 19:41.32 | Leeds | someone has to do it for us - when they have the time |
| 19:41.37 | gregj | i see |
| 19:41.48 | gregj | that changes whole thing |
| 19:42.07 | gregj | i can ask my boss, if he will to host this website for us. |
| 19:42.39 | gregj | from my point of view, i can put anything on any server at any time |
| 19:42.41 | gregj | :-) |
| 19:42.43 | Leeds | trust me - that's not the answer |
| 19:42.56 | gregj | indeed |
| 19:43.52 | gregj | but problem of hosting mail/website always come back on meetings |
| 19:44.32 | Leeds | not really |
| 19:44.50 | gregj | well, it did on last meeting |
| 19:45.05 | Leeds | that's not always... and I wasn't there |
| 19:45.39 | gregj | Leeds: regarding this weeks meeting |
| 19:45.48 | Leeds | yes |
| 19:45.49 | gregj | Leeds: tickets to park, 9 quids |
| 19:45.53 | Leeds | 7 |
| 19:46.08 | gregj | Leeds: probably only chance to book it in advance is when you have a card :/ |
| 19:46.14 | Leeds | yes |
| 19:46.16 | gregj | 9, according to webpage |
| 19:46.18 | Leeds | get a bloody card |
| 19:46.28 | Jenson | how can you not have a card |
| 19:46.36 | Jenson | i thought everyone had cashcards |
| 19:46.38 | gregj | i have only visa electron |
| 19:46.50 | Leeds | Jenson: he's a foreigner with no income |
| 19:47.03 | gregj | which can be used for shopping and in cash points |
| 19:47.04 | Jenson | is anyone actually going to Bletcly now? |
| 19:47.21 | Jenson | gregj: yeh i had one, had 2 shops in my town that would take it |
| 19:47.25 | gregj | Leeds: i will, as soon as bloody homeoffice will return my passport |
| 19:47.33 | Jenson | so i literally chewed it up and got a normal visa card |
| 19:47.40 | gregj | Jenson: i can use it in shop, but not online |
| 19:47.42 | Leeds | Jenson: yes they bloody well are... fucking shitty crappy arse-licking trains |
| 19:47.54 | gregj | hrhr |
| 19:47.57 | Jenson | Leeds: still pissed off honey? |
| 19:48.07 | Leeds | oh, just a touch |
| 19:48.11 | Leeds | thanks for noticing ;_0 |
| 19:48.25 | gregj | Leeds: what happend ? |
| 19:48.34 | Jenson | well im not going, nor is,Alex, Costa, stephan or Paul N AFAIK |
| 19:48.53 | gregj | not good |
| 19:49.02 | Leeds | their loss |
| 19:49.06 | gregj | true |
| 19:49.13 | gregj | Jenson: its my birtday btw |
| 19:49.19 | gregj | birthday |
| 19:49.32 | Leeds | Jenson: frankly, paul n is the only one of them I care about anyway |
| 19:49.38 | Jenson | ive got no money to go anyway, and im quite discliked by a few members of gllug |
| 19:49.52 | gregj | well, not only you |
| 19:49.53 | Jenson | Leeds: bah you dont know stephanb yet |
| 19:50.05 | Leeds | right |
| 19:50.11 | Leeds | that's why I don't care about him |
| 19:50.20 | Jenson | you know Alex though |
| 19:50.49 | Leeds | do I? |
| 19:50.57 | Jenson | A4266 |
| 19:51.01 | stephanb | Leeds: thank you my brother to show your solidarity with a fellow human being |
| 19:51.07 | Jenson | my ex boyf |
| 19:51.43 | Leeds | stephanb: nothing personal - but if you can't be bothered to come along, it doesn't particularly bother me |
| 19:51.52 | stephanb | Leeds: fair enough |
| 19:52.13 | Jenson | Leeds: i was going too, until they fucked the trains up and no-one i know is going |
| 19:52.15 | Leeds | I'm pissed-off enough with it as it is |
| 19:53.11 | gregj | Jenson: well, you know as |
| 19:53.22 | Leeds | stephanb: actually - I tell a lie. it actually does bother me... a lot |
| 19:54.40 | stephanb | Leeds: i know i am torn between going for an epic trip to Bletchley and worship the temple of Ultra and Alan Turing |
| 19:55.21 | stephanb | Leeds: and say : it's gonna rain, 1hr on train + 1hr on bus each way, too much effort, cant be bothered |
| 19:55.35 | Leeds | stephanb: I know it's not your fault. I'm very very angry about the trains, but I'm also pissed-off that people obviously aren't *that* interested in it. I don't think I'll bother next year |
| 19:55.58 | Jenson | Leeds: i dont turn up at gllug half the time anyway |
| 19:56.11 | Jenson | although i was at the l;ast pub thing for about 20 mins |
| 19:56.29 | stephanb | Leeds: but i'm even more upset for people who organise a festival like Greenbelt, who are gonna lose thousands of visitors on sunday 23rd |
| 19:56.31 | Leeds | Jenson: frankly - that doesn't bother me... you're not even in London, so I don't expect you to turn up |
| 19:56.48 | stephanb | Leeds: and who are going to lose money |
| 19:57.19 | Leeds | stephanb: again - I don't care about Greenbelt because a) I have absolutely no idea what it is and b) it's not me |
| 19:57.29 | Jenson | Leeds: i'm usually in london when gllug is happeneing, but convincing anyone to go with me is impossible, and no-one at gllug talks to me |
| 20:00.25 | Jenson | grr its cold in here |
| 20:00.34 | stephanb | cold ? |
| 20:01.33 | Jenson | yeh |
| 20:01.39 | Jenson | jsut went to shut all the windows |
| 20:01.55 | stephanb | London/City 26C RH 36%, wind NW 11kph, pressure 1022 hPa |
| 20:02.38 | Jenson | it probably isnt cold |
| 20:02.40 | Jenson | porbably just me |
| 20:02.42 | Jenson | usually is |
| 20:02.55 | Leeds | stephanb: frankly - greenbelt not my thing - don't really care about it |
| 20:03.56 | stephanb | Leeds: it 's okay, i was just saying that in our case it's upsetting but not really dramatic, for other people who spend the whole year organising a festival |
| 20:04.26 | Leeds | a festival whose basis is false, to me |
| 20:04.58 | stephanb | Leeds: that's not for you to judge, considering it is not a BNP meeting |
| 20:05.00 | Leeds | yeah - it's a pity, whatever... if it's commercial, I'd hope they have insurance - it not, they took a risk |
| 20:05.12 | Leeds | stephanb: I'm not saying it's wrong, just false |
| 20:05.30 | Leeds | not false in the sense of empty or fake... just not valid |
| 20:05.52 | Jenson | stephanb: something wrong with BNP meetings? |
| 20:05.58 | Jenson | oi dont think we have the BNP round here |
| 20:06.05 | Jenson | its fucking labour i think |
| 20:06.12 | Jenson | all labour and the tories |
| 20:06.49 | Leeds | stephanb: anyway - the point is that the long outage was announced a long long time ago... they screwed us over a couple of weeks ago |
| 20:07.16 | stephanb | i just don't understand how Leeds can *judge* greenbelt. They harm nobody, they threaten nobody, they are not washing people's brains. |
| 20:07.45 | Leeds | if they'd have said there were no trains on the 17th, I wouldn't have said the 17th for the picnic - it's that they changed their fucking minds |
| 20:07.58 | Jenson | stephanb: if i knew what greenbelt was it would help |
| 20:08.03 | Leeds | stephanb: I don't believe there is such a thing as non-religious christian art. |
| 20:08.14 | Jenson | fucking religios idiots |
| 20:08.35 | Jenson | s/religious |
| 20:08.36 | stephanb | my theory is that all art is either religion or psychotherapy |
| 20:08.52 | Leeds | stephanb: I'm not saying - and I haven't said - that they're doing anything wrong. it's just not real - not honest |
| 20:09.27 | stephanb | Leeds: what is dishonest ? to ask pple to pay for it ? do you view it as a scam ? |
| 20:09.34 | Leeds | not in the slightest |
| 20:09.39 | Leeds | the basis for it is made up |
| 20:10.11 | stephanb | oh yeah, but then i would say i think the basis of contemporary art trade / production is "false" as well |
| 20:10.23 | Leeds | possibly |
| 20:10.25 | Leeds | some of it is |
| 20:10.54 | stephanb | well it's the same with the religious |
| 20:10.58 | Leeds | for example - a lot of the music industry is |
| 20:11.17 | stephanb | i can only agree |
| 20:11.44 | stephanb | but then you are free to buy a musical instrument and play your own music |
| 20:11.55 | Leeds | my point is that I don't think that Christian art has any relevence, any solidity, outside an explicitly religious Christian thing |
| 20:12.06 | Leeds | and this is no comment on the artists or even the organisers |
| 20:12.30 | stephanb | i like john tavener's music. and i listen to ot on my hifi, not in a church, and not as part of worship |
| 20:12.31 | Jenson | Leeds: ah, but you are not Christian, you are Jewish |
| 20:12.42 | Leeds | and - from what I read - the non-Christian side of it seems quite sane... |
| 20:12.54 | Leeds | I just don't think Christianity is a cultural thing |
| 20:13.48 | Leeds | again - not in a negative sense - just that I think it's orthoganal |
| 20:13.49 | stephanb | Leeds: i see where you are getting at. Judaism is a culture not a religion (recontructionist judaism / kaplan) |
| 20:14.10 | stephanb | unfortunately things are not that clear cut |
| 20:14.13 | Leeds | stephanb: s/is/can be/ or s/is/is also/ |
| 20:14.53 | Leeds | as an example... |
| 20:15.16 | stephanb | otherwise, if our "western", "liberal", capitalist", "consumerist" society was totally honest with itself, prostitution and recreational drugs would be legalised |
| 20:15.46 | Jenson | stephanb: as they should be...well in part at least |
| 20:16.03 | Jenson | well prostitution should be legal anyway |
| 20:16.05 | Leeds | I have a Deacon Blue tape - (one of) the best of album. I've now bought three copies of it - two on tape and one on CD. I played it in the car with a Christian friend (then friend - we've lost touch) and he was amazed because he considered them Christian... |
| 20:16.18 | Leeds | stephanb: morality != culture |
| 20:17.00 | Leeds | I would argue that a large part of society - even particular the 'arty' parts, would certainly consider recreational drug use to be entirely normal and acceptable |
| 20:17.31 | stephanb | i am just noting that we have just used a whole bunch of words that are all very hard to define : religion, culture, music. |
| 20:17.54 | Leeds | music is pretty easy to define :-) |
| 20:18.29 | Leeds | I have no idea what you mean by that :-) |
| 20:18.33 | Jenson | stephanb: one should add politics to that list |
| 20:18.49 | Leeds | nope - politics is pretty easy to define too |
| 20:19.00 | Jenson | Leeds: not in my head |
| 20:19.14 | Leeds | religion and culture - and particularly the lines where they meet and intermingle - are a lot harder to pin down |
| 20:19.15 | Jenson | ive settled on Marxist of socialist though |
| 20:19.21 | Leeds | Jenson: give an example |
| 20:19.52 | Leeds | don't worry - you'll grow out of that |
| 20:20.24 | Jenson | i couldnt give myself a label |
| 20:20.28 | Jenson | so i thought fuck it lol |
| 20:20.31 | Leeds | you just did |
| 20:21.03 | Jenson | i eamnt one label |
| 20:21.07 | Jenson | s/meant |
| 20:21.22 | Leeds | anyway - give an example of how it's hard to define politics |
| 20:21.40 | Jenson | its hard to define ppl political viewpoints and ideals |
| 20:21.47 | *** join/#gllug splat1 (~m@pc4-leic1-5-cust192.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:21.48 | Leeds | that's not the question, though |
| 20:21.54 | Leeds | evening splat1 |
| 20:21.57 | splat1 | lo |
| 20:21.57 | Jenson | although we can say the government made a complete fuck up of the iraq thing |
| 20:22.10 | Jenson | splat1: hey darling...joining us are ya |
| 20:22.22 | splat1 | ermm i think the lug site is down :/ |
| 20:22.23 | Leeds | splat1: you've wandered into a political/religious/cultural discussion - if you want to discuss Linux, just say the word :-) |
| 20:22.26 | gregj | http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/03/08/12/163242.shtml?tid=133&tid=153&tid=186&tid=99 |
| 20:22.40 | Leeds | splat1: gllug.org.uk works - www.gllug.org.uk doesn't, unfortunately |
| 20:22.45 | splat1 | 2(Leeds2): dont mind me im part of the leicester lot :) |
| 20:22.47 | Jenson | Leeds: lol he's here coz i told him we were talking about politics |
| 20:22.55 | Leeds | hmm... |
| 20:23.04 | Jenson | Leeds: splat1 is part of the channel me and zimm are from |
| 20:23.06 | splat1 | 2(Jenson2): so im looking for a conversation |
| 20:23.16 | Jenson | splat1: i think you're it now babe |
| 20:23.21 | splat1 | :P |
| 20:23.37 | Jenson | Leeds: he's not a stranger....just strange |
| 20:23.50 | splat1 | yep thats me :) |
| 20:24.07 | Leeds | I mean it |
| 20:24.16 | Leeds | splat1: you're welcome in here to discuss Linux or London |
| 20:24.26 | Jenson | splat1: Leeds is a little annoyed tonight |
| 20:24.35 | Leeds | but this shouldn't be a place people come to from outside for totally off-topic chat |
| 20:24.42 | splat1 | hmm.. |
| 20:24.44 | *** part/#gllug splat1 (~m@pc4-leic1-5-cust192.nott.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:25.18 | Jenson | Leeds: he just wanted to join in hon |
| 20:25.34 | Leeds | well... he's not a Linux user and not in London |
| 20:25.50 | Leeds | this channel gets very very off-topic - it's wrong to invite people in to make it more so |
| 20:26.07 | Jenson | he is a linux user....cept i think he uses win 2000 most of the time |
| 20:26.09 | Leeds | sorry - better... he's not using Linux to IRC |
| 20:26.39 | stephanb | Jenson: Leeds has got a point though |
| 20:26.55 | Jenson | stephanb: dont worry, we go through this shit all the time |
| 20:26.56 | stephanb | we could discuss the following : |
| 20:27.06 | stephanb | is Linux a religion ? |
| 20:27.10 | Leeds | no |
| 20:27.11 | Leeds | next |
| 20:27.12 | stephanb | is Linux a culture ? |
| 20:27.19 | Jenson | stephanb: it is not, because i am not religious |
| 20:27.21 | Leeds | yes, to a great extent. |
| 20:27.35 | Jenson | no...geek is a culture...but one can be a wingeek |
| 20:27.41 | stephanb | is Linux / perl / opensource an art ? |
| 20:27.47 | Jenson | perl lol |
| 20:27.59 | Leeds | it's a science - and like any science, it can be practised artistically |
| 20:28.06 | stephanb | is Linux / perl / opensource a political philosophy |
| 20:28.10 | Leeds | no |
| 20:28.18 | Jenson | potentionally |
| 20:28.18 | Leeds | free software - and to a lesser extent, open source is |
| 20:28.27 | stephanb | it's not really a science, if it is it's applied science / applied arts |
| 20:28.29 | Leeds | unix verges on one |
| 20:28.48 | Leeds | okay - applied science - but the basis is scientific rather than artistic |
| 20:29.13 | stephanb | loosely |
| 20:29.19 | Leeds | yes |
| 20:29.26 | Leeds | well... |
| 20:29.56 | Leeds | I would say that the hardware level is largely engineering, which is extremely applied science, with a little artistic design wrapped around it |
| 20:30.01 | Leeds | software is less biased |
| 20:30.33 | stephanb | hem, excpet that there is no "linux" hardware, this is not apple |
| 20:30.39 | Leeds | sure there is |
| 20:30.46 | stephanb | Leeds: oh sorry i forgot you work for sun :-D |
| 20:30.57 | stephanb | Leeds: ??? embedded Linux ? |
| 20:31.15 | Leeds | anyway - I see Linux as largely being the union of unix and free software... not so much a unique thing in its own right |
| 20:31.55 | Leeds | embedded Linux is a good example... |
| 20:32.14 | stephanb | yeah reminds me of this lecture reminding us that linux is only the kernel... |
| 20:32.27 | Leeds | Linux - technically - *is* just the kernel |
| 20:32.57 | Jenson | right im out |
| 20:32.58 | Jenson | seeya |
| 20:33.12 | Leeds | whenever you get to the point where the answer to "why?" is "because it's there" or "because we can", you're nearing the science/art border, I think |
| 20:33.15 | Leeds | bye Jenson|Away |
| 20:34.01 | stephanb | i like blurring the art/science border. dunno why, but i like it |
| 20:34.51 | Leeds | so, for example, the IBM Linux watch, which absolutely a piece of engineering, is in effect a piece of engineering art - it's not really useful in its own right - it was done for the interest in doing it - because it would look cool, be thought-provoking and so on |
| 20:35.39 | Leeds | do you code? |
| 20:35.48 | Leeds | (I should know that) |
| 20:37.20 | stephanb | badly, and not enough to my taste |
| 20:37.37 | Leeds | what language(s)? |
| 20:37.46 | stephanb | in my job, people are not really interested in long term solutions |
| 20:38.18 | stephanb | i did some lisp and pascal at university, now i use perl |
| 20:38.34 | Leeds | oh :-( |
| 20:38.44 | stephanb | i never wrote a full scale app, only "scracth an itch" solutions |
| 20:38.46 | Leeds | then pointing you at obsfucated code is pointless |
| 20:39.13 | Leeds | since most Perl is obscfucated as written |
| 20:39.54 | stephanb | yeah i tend to use 5 lines of code, where a real perl coder would do it in one line |
| 20:40.09 | Leeds | ah |
| 20:40.12 | Leeds | maybe yours is readable then :-) |
| 20:40.46 | Leeds | writing obsfucated code gets you things like a C program which caculated pi by working out the area of its own source code :-) |
| 20:40.54 | stephanb | i'm the kind of guy who will use if..then.else (also in bash) where a normal programmer uses a conditional operator |
| 20:41.08 | Leeds | I don't like conditional operators either |
| 20:41.44 | stephanb | this is not obfuscation (C program calcultaing pi), it's acrobatics. |
| 20:42.07 | Leeds | it's code-as-art |
| 20:42.24 | gregj | it usually means - useless |
| 20:42.32 | Leeds | gregj: yes, absolutely |
| 20:42.43 | gregj | :-) |
| 20:43.46 | Leeds | see y'all later |
| 20:44.07 | stephanb | Leeds: well, well, well i hope we will meet one day, if not at bletchley... |
| 20:44.20 | stephanb | Leeds: see ya l8r |
| 20:44.47 | Leeds | stephanb: as I said, your loss... it probably won't rain, it'll be fun, and it's a nice place to visit |
| 20:45.34 | stephanb | guilt, guilt, guilt : how to talk to a christian, chapter one. |
| 21:05.00 | stephanb | bbl |
| 21:05.02 | *** part/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-198-67.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 21:28.47 | Leeds | hmm... only 32 degrees in here - feels pleasantly cool |
| 21:30.20 | gregj | me too |
| 21:30.24 | gregj | i hope it will rain now |
| 21:30.27 | gregj | not during weekend |
| 21:31.47 | Leeds | it's not forcast to, for whatever that's worth |
| 21:36.32 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-193-113.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 21:46.37 | *** join/#gllug stephanb (~frog@dsl-80-46-193-113.access.uk.tiscali.com) |
| 22:20.53 | *** join/#gllug Leeds (~richardc@user-1060.bbd08wfd.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:21.43 | Leeds | I think that's working |
| 22:21.52 | Leeds | we'll see how stable it is... |
| 22:22.16 | gregj | :-) |
| 22:22.30 | gregj | it eats memory |
| 22:22.54 | Leeds | yes |
| 22:23.12 | gregj | but i am happy to use it |
| 22:23.26 | Leeds | really? |
| 22:23.35 | Leeds | Linux-on-Linux? |
| 22:23.40 | gregj | well, i need to run one program for windows |
| 22:23.46 | gregj | so i have w2k on it |
| 22:23.51 | gregj | and i am testing all new distros |
| 22:23.59 | gregj | like redhat beta, fe |
| 22:24.01 | Leeds | win-what? |
| 22:24.06 | gregj | :> |
| 22:24.38 | gregj | i couldn't install solaris, because it requires 96MB and i have only 64 |
| 22:24.53 | gregj | but windows works, just fine |
| 22:24.56 | Leeds | what do you need to run under windows? |
| 22:25.00 | gregj | i can switch it of at any time |
| 22:25.09 | gregj | i am writing plugin for gadu gadu in KDE |
| 22:25.19 | gregj | and only orginal client for this protocol i windows one |
| 22:25.22 | Leeds | so? |
| 22:25.27 | gregj | i have to check if it is working with windows |
| 22:25.36 | Leeds | so? |
| 22:25.39 | gregj | i mean, if i can talk to somebody that uses windows client |
| 22:25.42 | Leeds | wine? a friendly tester? |
| 22:25.45 | gregj | and for that i need windows |
| 22:25.49 | gregj | it does not run under wine |
| 22:25.56 | gregj | if it will, i will use wine - belive me |
| 22:26.12 | Leeds | so? |
| 22:26.14 | Leeds | fix wine |
| 22:26.20 | gregj | sure |
| 22:26.29 | gregj | maybe you'll do this :=-) |
| 22:26.36 | gregj | KDE eats all my free time |
| 22:26.46 | gregj | beside, wine is on BSD licence |
| 22:26.47 | Leeds | I don't want to run windows software |
| 22:26.50 | Leeds | nope |
| 22:26.54 | Leeds | wine is on LGPL |
| 22:27.03 | gregj | whatsoever |
| 22:27.24 | gregj | it is just because gadu uses IE extensively |
| 22:27.34 | gregj | you are not able to aply this functionality to wine |
| 22:27.42 | gregj | unless you install IE |
| 22:27.52 | gregj | which is impossible with free version of wine |
| 22:28.07 | gregj | but gadu does not work with crossoveroffice too |
| 22:28.23 | Leeds | I thought IE worked okay with wince |
| 22:28.25 | Leeds | wine |
| 22:28.37 | Leeds | you can tell what I'm used to typing over on another channel :-) |
| 22:30.55 | gregj | hehe |
| 22:36.41 | Leeds | hmm... |
| 22:36.45 | Leeds | I may go offline here |
| 22:47.08 | JD | hi all |
| 22:53.19 | *** join/#gllug richardc_ (~richardc@user-308.bbd16tcl.dsl.pol.co.uk) |
| 22:54.52 | richardc_ | ping |
| 22:56.53 | Leeds | ping |
| 22:57.03 | Leeds | ibot ping |
| 22:57.03 | | Leeds: wish i knew |
| 22:57.11 | eye69 | *yawn* |
| 22:57.57 | Leeds | ibot slap eye69 |
| 22:57.57 | | i don't know, Leeds |
| 22:58.09 | Leeds | ibot caffiene |
| 22:58.09 | | Leeds: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ? |
| 22:58.13 | Leeds | ibot caffien |
| 22:58.14 | | Leeds: I'm not sure, is it larger than a breadbox? |
| 22:58.18 | Leeds | argh |
| 23:00.07 | JD | ibot: seems to have suffered a labotomy |
| 23:00.09 | | bugger all, i dunno, JD |
| 23:01.02 | Leeds | ibot sing |
| 23:01.03 | | ACTION sings off key |
| 23:01.09 | Leeds | ibot dance |
| 23:01.09 | | "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" |
| 23:01.13 | Leeds | ibot die |
| 23:01.14 | | ACTION takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless. |
| 23:07.57 | gregj | ibot suffer for me |
| 23:07.58 | | gregj: I give up, what is it? |
| 23:08.11 | gregj | ibot catch |
| 23:08.12 | | gregj: no idea |
| 23:09.10 | Leeds | ibot throw |
| 23:09.11 | | Leeds: i don't know |
| 23:10.44 | gregj | ibot poweroff |
| 23:10.45 | | gregj: have you tried http://www.tldp.org/ ? |
| 23:11.00 | gregj | ibot go away |
| 23:11.01 | | /server irc.rt.ru |
| 23:11.09 | gregj | ibot STFU |
| 23:11.10 | | it has been said that stfu is Shut the F*** Up! |
| 23:11.16 | gregj | :> |
| 23:13.07 | gregj | why all pizza places are fucking close at that time in this country |
| 23:13.08 | gregj | grrrrrrrrr |
| 23:13.14 | gregj | no chinesse either |
| 23:13.48 | Leeds | you mean... why do places close when the vast majority of their customers are asleep? |
| 23:15.28 | JD | Leeds: I think he means why do places close when people want food at slightly late times |
| 23:15.37 | Leeds | like now? |
| 23:15.48 | Leeds | a very large majority of the population are in bed by now |
| 23:16.06 | gregj | cinic and sarcastic fscking channel |
| 23:16.32 | Leeds | no |
| 23:16.39 | Leeds | there are plenty of shops open now... |
| 23:16.50 | Leeds | just not restaurants... |
| 23:17.03 | Leeds | remember that they have to stop serving alcohol at 11pm |
| 23:17.16 | JD | a take-away would be nice |
| 23:17.20 | gregj | ya, i know = england |
| 23:17.21 | gregj | :\ |
| 23:17.51 | gregj | pubs should be closed during weekend in thiss country |
| 23:17.55 | Leeds | there'll still be a few takeaways open... |
| 23:18.08 | gregj | maybe near you |
| 23:18.10 | Leeds | the odd fast-food/kebab place around |
| 23:18.17 | gregj | not in on my site |
| 23:18.29 | Leeds | yeah well... you choose to live in the middle of nowhere |
| 23:19.01 | Leeds | gregj: that's pretty much the point - if you want food at this time, you microwave it |
| 23:19.33 | gregj | maybe a girl :-) |
| 23:19.43 | Leeds | a chinese girl? |
| 23:19.44 | gregj | or might be a girl, i should say |
| 23:20.20 | Leeds | you might be a girl? |
| 23:20.32 | gregj | who knows :> |
| 23:20.51 | Leeds | well... I'd hope you do |
| 23:20.58 | Leeds | whoa - down to 30 degrees in here |
| 23:21.02 | gregj | hyhy |
| 23:21.19 | gregj | i don't have thermometer there |
| 23:21.22 | gregj | here, i mean |
| 23:21.46 | gregj | dinners ready ! |
| 23:21.54 | Leeds | whrr |
| 23:21.56 | Leeds | whee |
| 23:22.05 | gregj | not wee, dinner :> |